RE: Problems, Ideas, Other

[Craig Orsinger <orsingerc epg-gw1 lewis army mil>]

        Let me first explain that my perspective is that of a
programmer and systems integrator. So, from the perspective of
this project, I'm mostly a user of GNOME, rather than a potential
developer. I've spent a lot of time in the last two months trying
to learn how GNOME fits together and works with Linux, X, and
itself.

        There are a lot of good things about GNOME. Its suite of
tools like the panel, GMC, and the control center make it a much
more complete GUI than anything previously available for free. 
It's got a lot of potential, also, once the standard printer 
interface and some reliable and useful productivity applications 
are available (I'm aware of the development efforts, but they're 
not there yet, IMHO). While I can't contrast it with KDE, it's 
clearly a lot more than one gets with the Motif environment, and 
it has now surpassed CDE in utility as well.

        But, GNOME isn't ready for prime time just yet ...

On 26-Aug-99 bob@cs.csoft.net wrote:
> We are loosing ground to KDE. KDE is assimilating the strengths of GNOME
> and GNOME is loosing some of its strengths.
> 
> KDE is now copying the greatest strength of GNOME, configurability. A
> GNOME like panel with applets is in development and themes as well.
> 
> In the beggining, I chose GNOME over KDE because of:
>  Configureability
>  License
>  No waisted time/code
>  Language
>  No specified WM

        I am not familiar enough with how KDE works to make any
distinctions in user interface or configurability issues, but I 
agree that the language and license issues are important. KDE,
AFAIK, still doesn't support any interface other than C++. One of
my prime requirements for a new API is that it be accessible 
somehow from the C language.

> KDE is assimilating configureability eliminating the configureability
> portion.
> 
        A logical development, I should think.

> GNOME is loosing the "no waisted code" part.
> Examples are:
>  GNOME-WM
>  ESD replacement
>  GNOME PPP stuff
>  Alarm Applet

        If I understood what I read correctly on one of the GNOME
sites, you can add imlib to this list. I hope this is not becoming
a trend.

        [snip]

> GNOME-WM: Heven knows we dont need yet another WM. Finishing the WM
> Specification should remove the need for a GNOME WM. It will save alot of
> time and trouble making a GNOME WM.

        People are developing WMs. There is at least one independent
"lightweight GNOME-compliant WM" effort under way (wmG), and several
that seem to be similar efforts.

> All that GNOME has over KDE now is:
> License (kinda)
> Languages
> 
> We need to redouble our efforts and work on the things that really matter
> as apposed to other things or GNOME will be pushed aside by KDE.
> 
> Things that need emediate attention:
> Bonobo
> WM Spec
> GCONF
> Office programs

        If you include an e-mail client in "office programs", this
is a good list. Well, except for "Bonobo" - I thought that was 
released already ??? Do you mean it should be made more reliable?


> We are using other peoples code, but we are not sharing much of our code.
> Problem.
> For example libgnorba. It needs to be made into a console library with no
> dependencies on X. Many console programs can benifit from libgnorba.
> Another example would be the desktop file parsing code. It would be a good
> idea to put it in a library so that it could be shared with KDE and the
> window managers.

        It would be nice to be able to use one library for both GUI 
and console. I'm writing applications that may have to work on either.
They don't use CORBA at the moment, but it's within the realm of 
possibility later.

        [snip]

> Note about gnome-db:
> Why? Isnt there a library called iODBC or something like that? There is no
> reason to create a gnome based db library when there is a console one that
> is more flexable.

        I agree to the extent that gnome-db is a lower priority than
configurability, reliability, documentation, and office apps at this 
point. ODBC is a rather resource-intensive interface, but it is there.

        [snip] 

        People have complained before, but it would be really handy
to have a centralized error log facility similar to (or perhaps, 
compatible with), syslog for GNOME errors and warnings. It's hard to
tell what's broken on my systems right now, partly because there are 
lots of warnings in the .xsession error file that have no program
name associated with them. In addition, it would be nice if there
was something more to go on than GTK messages about not being able
to find window pointers.

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Date: 26-Aug-99  Time: 16:12:19

Craig Orsinger                  (email: <orsingerc@epg-gw1.lewis.army.mil>)
Logicon RDA
Bldg. 8B28                      "Just another megalomaniac with ideas above his
6th & F Streets                 station. The Universe is full of them."
Ft. Lewis, WA   98433                   - The Doctor
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