From waldemar@nxp.com Thu Jan 1 01:33:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EBF6C02E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 01:33:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Abqq1-0000Ug-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:37:21 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Abqq0-0004oB-HE for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:37:20 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:37:19 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Some issues References: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 00:33:28 -0000
Sheldon Simms wrote:
--- Waldemar Augustyn <waldemar@nxp.com> wrote:
    
      
  
1. Extension.It would be nice to abandon this very long ".mrproject" suffix.
Three-letter extensions seem to be a  norm. *.pln or *.pnr ???  
        
    
  
The extension is a bit long, agreed. I'm not sure if it really matters though?
      

  
OK, I did.

I think this is one of those little annoyances that turn people off.
Most expect three letters extensions, I would give it to them.
Planner is generally pretty good wrt the usability issues.
Very few in-your-face Unixisms.  That's good.
    

I have to comment on this. The length of the file extension is NOT a usability
issue. You talk about "in-your-face Unixisms" without bothering to acknowledge
the facts -- that a three letter extension on a file name is an archaic remnant
of a dead operating system and is itself an "in-your-face" Microsoftism.

You say "Most expect three letter extensions" but what you really mean is "I expect
three letter extensions" or equivalently "I have such an emotional commitment to
whatever Microsoft Windows does, that I can't accept any deviation whatsoever".
  
My advice to you is to simply get over it and accept that fact that only a complete
idiot would reject a program because it adds ".mrproject" to the end of its files
by default. I prefer no extension at all. Using an extension to specify the contents
of the file is ridiculous. It is possible to change the extension of any arbitrary
file to ".exe" in Windows, and Windows is stupid enough to try and run it. Do you
really think that's a good thing?!
Three letter extensions have been widely accepted.  It does not matter who originated them (certainly not MS, their existence predates the first IBM PC).  I do not see the point of Planner fighting that war.  I believe it is in the product's best interest to go with the flow on things that "do not matter".


My suggestion on the matter is to add a preferences dialog where the user can
select whatever extension he wants, or eliminate the extension entirely. A newly
installed Planner could have a default file extension of ".planner" or something
similar (".mrproject" is wrong because the program isn't called "Mr. Project"
any more). That way, the default would make sense, people like me could remove
the extension altogether, and pointy-haired bosses, Microsoft sycophants, and
other conformists could invent some a three letter extension.
That's fine as long as it does not insist on appending anything.
From ramirez@johalla.de Thu Jan 1 11:46:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from maus.johalla.de (evision30.do.revmap.vianetworks.de [194.77.215.62]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AADD7C04E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 11:46:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from knuth (p50903316.dip.t-dialin.net [80.144.51.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by maus.johalla.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i01AoA6E010606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 11:50:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [Planner] File extension From: Christoph Begall To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> References: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1072954659.6683.12.camel@knuth> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 11:57:39 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 10:46:15 -0000 Regarding the file extension: What is the normal GNOME way of doing this? I think it is to append ., which seems quite reasonable to me. If somebody wants to put this in preferences, it should be stated very clearly, why this is so important. Otherwise one ends up with too many things in the preferences dialog, which normally will never be changed. The general trend seems to be to use less options (see epiphany vs. galeon). Am Do, den 01.01.2004 schrieb Waldemar Augustyn um 01:37: > Sheldon Simms wrote: > > --- Waldemar Augustyn wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Extension.It would be nice to abandon this very long ".mrproject" suffix. > > > > > Three-letter extensions seem to be a norm. *.pln or *.pnr ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The extension is a bit long, agreed. I'm not sure if it really matters though? > > > > > > > > > OK, I did. > > > > > > I think this is one of those little annoyances that turn people off. > > > Most expect three letters extensions, I would give it to them. > > > Planner is generally pretty good wrt the usability issues. > > > Very few in-your-face Unixisms. That's good. > > > > > I have to comment on this. The length of the file extension is NOT a usability > > issue. You talk about "in-your-face Unixisms" without bothering to acknowledge > > the facts -- that a three letter extension on a file name is an archaic remnant > > of a dead operating system and is itself an "in-your-face" Microsoftism. > > > > You say "Most expect three letter extensions" but what you really mean is "I expect > > three letter extensions" or equivalently "I have such an emotional commitment to > > whatever Microsoft Windows does, that I can't accept any deviation whatsoever". > > > > My advice to you is to simply get over it and accept that fact that only a complete > > idiot would reject a program because it adds ".mrproject" to the end of its files > > by default. I prefer no extension at all. Using an extension to specify the contents > > of the file is ridiculous. It is possible to change the extension of any arbitrary > > file to ".exe" in Windows, and Windows is stupid enough to try and run it. Do you > > really think that's a good thing?! > > > Three letter extensions have been widely accepted. It does not matter > who originated them (certainly not MS, their existence predates the > first IBM PC). I do not see the point of Planner fighting that war. > I believe it is in the product's best interest to go with the flow on > things that "do not matter". > > > > My suggestion on the matter is to add a preferences dialog where the user can > > select whatever extension he wants, or eliminate the extension entirely. A newly > > installed Planner could have a default file extension of ".planner" or something > > similar (".mrproject" is wrong because the program isn't called "Mr. Project" > > any more). That way, the default would make sense, people like me could remove > > the extension altogether, and pointy-haired bosses, Microsoft sycophants, and > > other conformists could invent some a three letter extension. > > > That's fine as long as it does not insist on appending anything. > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner -- Christoph Begall From waldemar@nxp.com Thu Jan 1 15:24:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04937C04E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 15:24:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Ac3oN-0007L9-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:28:32 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ac3oN-0005B7-Hx for planner@lists.imendio.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:28:31 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF42E8E.6030309@nxp.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:28:30 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] File extension References: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> <1072954659.6683.12.camel@knuth> In-Reply-To: <1072954659.6683.12.camel@knuth> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:24:37 -0000 Christoph Begall wrote: >Regarding the file extension: >What is the normal GNOME way of doing this? I think it is to append >., which seems quite reasonable to me. > > But why would you follow Gnome if there is Open Office out there? OO has a void that Planner can fill. Maybe the project managers will tell us what the intentions are. >If somebody wants to put this in preferences, it should be stated very >clearly, why this is so important. Otherwise one ends up with too many >things in the preferences dialog, which normally will never be changed. > >The general trend seems to be to use less options (see epiphany vs. >galeon). > > > From wsxyz6294@yahoo.com Thu Jan 1 18:14:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from web60703.mail.yahoo.com (web60703.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.117.226]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 19D19C04E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 18:14:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <20040101171818.25089.qmail@web60703.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.184.83.239] by web60703.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:18:18 PST Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 09:18:18 -0800 (PST) From: Sheldon Simms Subject: Re: [Planner] File extension To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF42E8E.6030309@nxp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:14:34 -0000 --- Waldemar Augustyn wrote: > Christoph Begall wrote: > > >Regarding the file extension: > >What is the normal GNOME way of doing this? I think it is to append > >., which seems quite reasonable to me. > > But why would you follow Gnome if there is Open Office out there? OO > has a void that Planner can fill. Perhaps because Planner is a Gnome application? I don't quite understand why you seem to think this is such a big deal. As you imply, OpenOffice does append a three-letter extension. That has never bothered me, although I think three-letter extensions are silly. Why does it bother you so much when a program doesn't use a three-letter extension? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From waldemar@nxp.com Thu Jan 1 20:40:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C48C04E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 20:40:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Ac8kF-0005km-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:44:36 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ac8kF-0003nh-FL for planner@lists.imendio.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:44:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF478A2.5010807@nxp.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:44:34 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] File extension References: <20040101171818.25089.qmail@web60703.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040101171818.25089.qmail@web60703.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:40:40 -0000 Sheldon Simms wrote:
--- Waldemar Augustyn <waldemar@nxp.com> wrote:
  
Christoph Begall wrote:

    
Regarding the file extension:
What is the normal GNOME way of doing this? I think it is to append
.<appname>, which seems quite reasonable to me.
      
But why would you follow Gnome if there is Open Office out there?  OO 
has a void that Planner can fill.
    

Perhaps because Planner is a Gnome application?
Sure, there may be some sponsorship issues that drive the product strategy.  I do not know how it works in the "open" development world.

As a user, I am looking for a management tool, not for a "Gnome enhancement".  I guess, it boils down to what the strategy is.  Is it  intended to be tied to, and to live and die along with, Gnome.  Or is it supposed to be a Project Management tool first and foremost that is looking for best ways to become a mainstream tool.
I don't quite understand why you seem to think this is such a big deal.
As you imply, OpenOffice does append a three-letter extension. That has
never bothered me, although I think three-letter extensions are silly.
Why does it bother you so much when a program doesn't use a three-letter
extension?


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From richard@imendio.com Fri Jan 2 12:38:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D43C04F for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:38:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0995612BEF for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:40:04 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Some issues From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF32AA5.7040506@nxp.com> References: <3FF1D363.10706@nxp.com> <1390.81.226.154.28.1072867262.squirrel@secure.mikan.net> <3FF32AA5.7040506@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073043631.11231.0.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 12:40:31 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 11:38:14 -0000 ons 2003-12-31 klockan 20.59 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > > It would be great if you could file a bug in the bugzilla database at > > > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=planner > > > > > OK, I did. Thanks! /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From richard@imendio.com Mon Jan 5 11:14:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E70C047 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:14:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B4C212BFE for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:15:55 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Some issues From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF35E7E.9090104@nxp.com> References: <3FF1D363.10706@nxp.com> <1390.81.226.154.28.1072867262.squirrel@secure.mikan.net> <200312311713.54828.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> <3FF35E7E.9090104@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073297789.4552.123.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 11:16:29 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 10:14:04 -0000 tor 2004-01-01 klockan 00.40 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > But in addition to batch entry, there is the issue of massaging a living > project. I did not expect to see performance issues with just a 100 > task sample. That worries me. Even more so when it's been speculated > the cause might be quite non-deterministic. I hope this will be > addressed in some way. Of course it will be, it's just a bug :) If anyone wants to try and fix it, I could give some pointers. /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From micke@imendio.com Mon Jan 5 19:04:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F21C047 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:04:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from h238n1c1o1035.bredband.skanova.com (h238n1c1o1035.bredband.skanova.com [81.227.16.238]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F1812BE0 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:05:59 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Some issues From: Mikael Hallendal To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> References: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendio HB Message-Id: <1073326406.13934.33.camel@chili.home.hallendal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:13:27 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:04:09 -0000 tor 2004-01-01 klockan 01.37 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > Three letter extensions have been widely accepted. It does not matter > who originated them (certainly not MS, their existence predates the > first IBM PC). I do not see the point of Planner fighting that war. There is no war to be fought. There are loads of programs not using three letter extensions, simple because there is a limited number of three letter extensions (and especially those that makes sense). I don't see how this has anything todo with whether planner tries to fill a void in OO.o or GNOME or just project managers in general. *.pln doesn't really tell the user anything, .planner does so the .pln does less usability-wise. > I believe it is in the product's best interest to go with the flow on > things that "do not matter". If there was a "flow", sure, but there isn't (unless we only target the Windows platform, a platform currently not a target platform at all). Regards, Mikael Hallendal -- Mikael Hallendal micke@imendio.com Imendio HB http://www.imendio.com Phone: +46 (0)709 718 918 From brian@simpleprojectmanagement.com Tue Jan 6 02:56:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED60C047 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 02:56:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from sdn-ap-013txhousp0033.dialsprint.net ([63.190.128.33] helo=SimpleProjectManagement.com) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AdgWN-0002Q3-00; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:00:39 -0800 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:02:42 -0600 Subject: [Planner] Resource dependencies Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) To: wsxyz6294@yahoo.com From: Brian Christensen In-Reply-To: <20031224110004.E344EC04F@master.imendio.com> Message-Id: <6997A9BE-3FEC-11D8-A40D-000393D72CDE@SimpleProjectManagement.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: planner@lists.imendio.com X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:56:30 -0000 Sheldon, > I'm trying out Planner for the first time today. It seems to work very > well so far, but I have a > question. Is there any way for Planner 0.11 to implement dependencies > between tasks based on > (work) resource availability, or do I just have to manually create > task dependencies? > > Just in case I'm not sufficiently clear, I have a situation where one > "startup" task is a > predecessor of about 8 different tasks that are logically parallel. > However, all of the tasks are > assigned the same resource at 100% and Planner seems to be perfectly > happy scheduling all of the > tasks simultaneously, although the resource can't actually work at > 800% to do all of them in > parallel. This question goes back to the definition of what a dependency is. Most of the books say that a task A is dependent on a task B if task B can't start until task A is finished. However, even though the tasks are logically parallel, if the same person is going to do both tasks, that person will almost always have a preference in the order they are done. It is convenient to treat the tasks "as if" they were dependent and to define dependencies between them. It is better to define a "treat them as if" dependency than to let the tool define a random order for the tasks. This shows up most clearly when you are taking status from the team. Say your team member has been assigned tasks A, B, and C. that are logically parallel and so can be done in any order. Let's assume that the tasks will each take a week to complete. You let the computer assign an arbitrary order to the tasks and it comes up with C then B then A. What does your status look like if the person decides to complete task A first? You would have to report that task C is late and task A is early. You would also have to explain to your management and to your customer why it is not a problem to have a late task. Why create problems for yourself that can be avoided? If the tasks are relatively small there is another approach you can use. If you plan on taking status weekly and the three tasks together would take a week or less to complete, combine them into one larger task. Then you have only one task to schedule and assign. The fact that the pieces of the larger task can be completed in any order stops being a scheduling concern. Speaking of enhancements to planner. Instead of an algorithm that schedules tasks based on resource availability, it would be more useful (and easier to implement) if planner would allow the scheduler to enter both "hard" and "soft" (or "as if") dependencies. They could be treated the same by the scheduling algorithm, but the distinction would help the project manager to keep track of which is which. -- Brian Christensen P.S. Sheldon, would it be okay with you if I quote your question on my web page? ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.SimpleProjectManagement.com (What everyone in your organization needs to know about project management.) From wsxyz6294@yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 04:36:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from web60710.mail.yahoo.com (web60710.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.117.233]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with SMTP id ECBE2C047 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 04:36:03 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.184.83.239] by web60710.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:39:59 PST Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:39:59 -0800 (PST) From: Sheldon Simms Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies To: planner@lists.imendio.com In-Reply-To: <6997A9BE-3FEC-11D8-A40D-000393D72CDE@SimpleProjectManagement.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 03:36:04 -0000 --- Brian Christensen wrote: > Sheldon, > > > I'm trying out Planner for the first time today. It seems to work very > > well so far, but I have a > > question. Is there any way for Planner 0.11 to implement dependencies > > between tasks based on > > (work) resource availability, or do I just have to manually create > > task dependencies? > > > > Just in case I'm not sufficiently clear, I have a situation where one > > "startup" task is a > > predecessor of about 8 different tasks that are logically parallel. > > However, all of the tasks are > > assigned the same resource at 100% and Planner seems to be perfectly > > happy scheduling all of the > > tasks simultaneously, although the resource can't actually work at > > 800% to do all of them in > > parallel. > > This question goes back to the definition of what a dependency is. Most > of the books say that a task A is dependent on a task B if task B can't > start until task A is finished. However, even though the tasks are > logically parallel, if the same person is going to do both tasks, that > person will almost always have a preference in the order they are done. > It is convenient to treat the tasks "as if" they were dependent and to > define dependencies between them. > > It is better to define a "treat them as if" dependency than to let the > tool define a random order for the tasks. This shows up most clearly > when you are taking status from the team. Say your team member has been > assigned tasks A, B, and C. that are logically parallel and so can be > done in any order. Let's assume that the tasks will each take a week > to complete. You let the computer assign an arbitrary order to the > tasks and it comes up with C then B then A. What does your status look > like if the person decides to complete task A first? You would have to > report that task C is late and task A is early. You would also have to > explain to your management and to your customer why it is not a problem > to have a late task. Why create problems for yourself that can be > avoided? ... some snippage... I don't really see how this relates to my question, which was about resource overcommitment. Perhaps most readers of this list are thinking about software development projects and expect to a resource to be capable of being 100% committed to multiple tasks at once. I was thinking of other situations where resources can not be overcommitted. For example, if the resource is a piece of equipment. Can it be in my office 100% of time and in your office 100% of the time? You and I might have logically parallel tasks, but if both of our tasks require the equipment resource, they cannot procede in parallel (with 100% resource allocation), no matter what our manager might wish. I accept that resource overcommitment should be allowed by the program, but I would like to be able to make resources non-overcommitable. If I have a non-overcommitable resource assigned to several logically parallel tasks, then the program might give me a choice: A) order the tasks prefer- entially, or B) allow the tasks to procede in parallel by dividing (equally or not) the resource commitment among the tasks, or C) some combination of A and B. > P.S. Sheldon, would it be okay with you if I quote your question on my > web page? Sure, no problem __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From waldemar@nxp.com Tue Jan 6 05:01:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11241C047 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 05:01:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AdiTR-000365-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:05:45 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AdiTQ-0008O3-LV for planner@lists.imendio.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:05:44 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFA3417.4030501@nxp.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:05:43 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <6997A9BE-3FEC-11D8-A40D-000393D72CDE@SimpleProjectManagement.com> In-Reply-To: <6997A9BE-3FEC-11D8-A40D-000393D72CDE@SimpleProjectManagement.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 04:01:35 -0000 Brian Christensen wrote: > Sheldon, > >> I'm trying out Planner for the first time today. It seems to work >> very well so far, but I have a >> question. Is there any way for Planner 0.11 to implement dependencies >> between tasks based on >> (work) resource availability, or do I just have to manually create >> task dependencies? >> >> Just in case I'm not sufficiently clear, I have a situation where one >> "startup" task is a >> predecessor of about 8 different tasks that are logically parallel. >> However, all of the tasks are >> assigned the same resource at 100% and Planner seems to be perfectly >> happy scheduling all of the >> tasks simultaneously, although the resource can't actually work at >> 800% to do all of them in >> parallel. > > > This question goes back to the definition of what a dependency is. > Most of the books say that a task A is dependent on a task B if That's all true above and below. However, the described situation is so common, it would be nice to have an easy way to resolve these conflicts knowing perfectly well it is really the manager's job to put his/her decision behind it. The tool could be quite dumb, for example it could blindly serialize the selected tasks in the order they appear. But as long as the user has a clear idea what the tool is doing, it could prove very useful. I can't wait to see what the "Time Table View" mentioned in the Roadmap can do. > task B can't start until task A is finished. However, even though the > tasks are logically parallel, if the same person is going to do both > tasks, that person will almost always have a preference in the order > they are done. It is convenient to treat the tasks "as if" they were > dependent and to define dependencies between them. > > It is better to define a "treat them as if" dependency than to let the > tool define a random order for the tasks. This shows up most clearly > when you are taking status from the team. Say your team member has > been assigned tasks A, B, and C. that are logically parallel and so > can be done in any order. Let's assume that the tasks will each take > a week to complete. You let the computer assign an arbitrary order to > the tasks and it comes up with C then B then A. What does your status > look like if the person decides to complete task A first? You would > have to report that task C is late and task A is early. You would also > have to explain to your management and to your customer why it is not > a problem to have a late task. Why create problems for yourself that > can be avoided? > > If the tasks are relatively small there is another approach you can > use. If you plan on taking status weekly and the three tasks together > would take a week or less to complete, combine them into one larger > task. Then you have only one task to schedule and assign. The fact > that the pieces of the larger task can be completed in any order stops > being a scheduling concern. > > Speaking of enhancements to planner. Instead of an algorithm that > schedules tasks based on resource availability, it would be more > useful (and easier to implement) if planner would allow the scheduler > to enter both "hard" and "soft" (or "as if") dependencies. They could > be treated the same by the scheduling algorithm, but the distinction > would help the project manager to keep track of which is which. > > -- Brian Christensen > > P.S. Sheldon, would it be okay with you if I quote your question on my > web page? > ---------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.SimpleProjectManagement.com > (What everyone in your organization needs to know about project > management.) > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner > > From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Tue Jan 6 16:48:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0501.wanadoo.fr (smtp5.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.26]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE051C02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:48:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-3-203.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.15.21.203]) by mwinf0501.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 472824001A0 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:52:24 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1073404345.505.20.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:52:26 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:48:07 -0000 Hi all. I'm working a bit on the time table view. It is someone else contribution. At the moment it shows you the resource usage level (none, between 1 to 100% and over 100%). You can also move tasks that overloads a given resource. First, I'm going to remove this view "resource usage" because timetable isn't very explicit. This put appart there are a lot of thing one can do with this view that would deeply affect planner and therefore needs to be discused before. The idea of implementing resource dependancies sounds cool to me but implies more than it first seems. Let me take an example. I have a project with resources R1 and R2. As they just finished a project rushing, I'm not willing to imply them more than 100%. I also have two tasks T1 and T2. T1 last 35 worked days and T2 only 5. R1 and R2 can work on T1 but only R1 can do T2. I enter the project in planner and what should the result be ? There are a lot of ways to solve the project. R1 works on T2 at 100% to finish it in the 5 days and then helps R2 on T1 (total: 20 days) R1 works on the two tasks half time and after 10 days comes full on T1 (same total). Therefore one could give an attribute to tell how needed is the tasks (ranging from "neede for last month" to "whenever"). However the example also implies that a resource commitement depends on the time line and it also implies a lot of changes in planner internal. I'm looking forward to your comments and ideas about that ;) Regards, Xavier. From mjnf@uevora.pt Tue Jan 6 17:25:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from evunix.uevora.pt (unknown [193.136.216.1]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE14BC02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:25:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (root@evunix.uevora.pt [193.136.216.1]) by evunix.uevora.pt (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id i06GTKLJ029501 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:29:20 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio?= Filipe To: Planner Project Manager Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-06GEnnMAxDSCTunwSe6J" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Message-Id: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Planner] SQL schema for planner X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:25:18 -0000 X-Original-Date: 06 Jan 2004 16:29:12 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:25:18 -0000 --=-06GEnnMAxDSCTunwSe6J Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Is the sql schema for planner available anywhere? Thanks --=20 Mario Filipe=20 mjnf@uevora.pt http://neptuno.sc.uevora.pt/~mjnf=20 --=-06GEnnMAxDSCTunwSe6J Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/+uJYVm7HI0r66XkRAm50AKDBxiMkHozWfmEWpyyqUwEQtV3tygCg4QtU J2sSfqA/omI4wb7aUqMUoc8= =brjz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-06GEnnMAxDSCTunwSe6J-- From waldemar@nxp.com Tue Jan 6 17:28:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D1CC02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:28:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Adu7x-0003ws-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:32:21 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Adu7w-0000Em-MY for planner@lists.imendio.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:32:20 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFAE313.2080808@nxp.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:32:19 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> <1073404345.505.20.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> In-Reply-To: <1073404345.505.20.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:28:04 -0000 Resource allocation is a very complex problem. Invariably, the solution requires the Manager's judgment. With modest means, it may be very difficult, if not impossible, to design a tool that uses rules and parameters to resolve conflicts automatically. Therefore, we may be better off considering a "toolset" approach, something analogous to various tools most drawing programs use. For example the "alignment tool" is a good reference. A drawing program does not align objects on its own. Instead, the user can select a few objects and hit the "align" button to get the desirable effect. Similarly, the Planner would not be resolving resource allocation problems by itself. Instead, it would offer a tool for the user to do it on demand. For example, the user could select a set of tasks, then hit a button to spread out the load in some pre-determined manner. It could be as simple as going in the order of tasks (It would actually make sense, since tasks tend to be entered in the expected order of execution). There could be different buttons indicating different types of action. The result would be a creation of dependencies as if entered by hand, i.e. the Planner would not be re-calculating the resource allocation rules. Xavier Ordoquy wrote: >Hi all. > >I'm working a bit on the time table view. >It is someone else contribution. At the moment it shows you the resource usage level (none, between 1 to 100% and over 100%). >You can also move tasks that overloads a given resource. > >First, I'm going to remove this view "resource usage" because timetable isn't very explicit. >This put appart there are a lot of thing one can do with this view that would deeply affect planner and therefore needs to be discused before. > >The idea of implementing resource dependancies sounds cool to me but implies more than it first seems. >Let me take an example. >I have a project with resources R1 and R2. As they just finished a project rushing, I'm not willing to imply them more than 100%. I also have two tasks T1 and T2. >T1 last 35 worked days and T2 only 5. R1 and R2 can work on T1 but only R1 can do T2. >I enter the project in planner and what should the result be ? There are a lot of ways to solve the project. > >R1 works on T2 at 100% to finish it in the 5 days and then helps R2 on T1 (total: 20 days) >R1 works on the two tasks half time and after 10 days comes full on T1 (same total). > >Therefore one could give an attribute to tell how needed is the tasks (ranging from "neede for last month" to "whenever"). >However the example also implies that a resource commitement depends on the time line and it also implies a lot of changes in planner internal. > >I'm looking forward to your comments and ideas about that ;) > >Regards, >Xavier. > >_______________________________________________ >Planner mailing list >Planner@lists.imendio.com >http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner > > > > From richard@imendio.com Tue Jan 6 17:42:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 841F3C02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 784EC12BE0 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:44:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-RQNiHzHpo4G0nrObhf6H" Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:45:04 +0100 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:42:36 -0000 --=-RQNiHzHpo4G0nrObhf6H Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit tis 2004-01-06 klockan 17.29 skrev Mário Filipe: > Hi > > Is the sql schema for planner available anywhere? It's distributed with the source code. In a coming release we should install it as well, and more importantly, add database setup code to the GUI so you don't need to do that manually. Attaching the schema for now, Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com --=-RQNiHzHpo4G0nrObhf6H Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=database.sql Content-Type: text/x-sql; name=database.sql; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- $Id: database.sql,v 1.1.1.1 2003/12/01 17:36:26 rhult Exp $ -- Planner Database Schema -- Daniel Lundin -- Richard Hult -- Copyright 2003 CodeFactory AB -- -- Project -- CREATE TABLE project ( proj_id serial, name text NOT NULL, company text, manager text, proj_start date NOT NULL DEFAULT CURRENT_TIMESTAMP, cal_id integer, phase text, default_group_id integer, revision integer, last_user text NOT NULL DEFAULT (user), PRIMARY KEY (proj_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON project TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON project_proj_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Phases -- CREATE TABLE phase ( phase_id serial, proj_id integer, name text NOT NULL, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (phase_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON phase TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON phase_phase_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Day Types -- CREATE TABLE daytype ( dtype_id serial, proj_id integer, name text, descr text, is_work boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT FALSE, is_nonwork boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT FALSE, UNIQUE (proj_id, name), FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (dtype_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON daytype TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON daytype_dtype_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Calendar -- CREATE TABLE calendar ( cal_id serial, proj_id integer, parent_cid integer, name text, day_mon integer DEFAULT NULL, day_tue integer DEFAULT NULL, day_wed integer DEFAULT NULL, day_thu integer DEFAULT NULL, day_fri integer DEFAULT NULL, day_sat integer DEFAULT NULL, day_sun integer DEFAULT NULL, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (day_mon) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_tue) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_wed) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_thu) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_fri) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_sat) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_sun) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (parent_cid) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE SET NULL ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (cal_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON calendar TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON calendar_cal_id_seq TO GROUP planner; ALTER TABLE project ADD CONSTRAINT project_cal_id FOREIGN KEY (cal_id) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED; -- -- Day -- CREATE TABLE day ( day_id serial, cal_id integer, dtype_id integer, date date, FOREIGN KEY (dtype_id) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (cal_id) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (day_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON day TO GROUP planner; -- -- Day (working) Interval -- CREATE TABLE day_interval ( cal_id integer, dtype_id integer, start_time time with time zone, end_time time with time zone, FOREIGN KEY (dtype_id) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE, FOREIGN KEY (cal_id) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (dtype_id, cal_id, start_time, end_time) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON day_interval TO GROUP planner; -- -- Task -- CREATE TABLE task ( task_id serial, parent_id integer, proj_id integer, name text NOT NULL, note text, start timestamp with time zone, finish timestamp with time zone, work integer DEFAULT 0, duration integer DEFAULT 0, percent_complete integer DEFAULT 0, is_milestone boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT FALSE, is_fixed_work boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT TRUE, constraint_type text NOT NULL DEFAULT 'ASAP', constraint_time timestamp with time zone, CHECK (constraint_type = 'ASAP' OR constraint_type = 'MSO' OR constraint_type = 'FNLT' OR constraint_type = 'SNET'), CHECK (percent_complete > -1 AND percent_complete < 101), FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (parent_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE SET NULL ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (task_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON task TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON task_task_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- FIXME: Add triggers to handle different types of tasks/milestones -- -- Predecessor (tasks) -- CREATE TABLE predecessor ( task_id integer NOT NULL, pred_task_id integer NOT NULL, pred_id serial, type text NOT NULL DEFAULT 'FS', lag integer DEFAULT 0, CHECK (type = 'FS' OR type = 'FF' OR type = 'SS' OR type = 'SF'), UNIQUE (pred_id), FOREIGN KEY (task_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (pred_task_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (task_id, pred_task_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON predecessor TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON predecessor_pred_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Property types -- CREATE TABLE property_type ( proptype_id serial, proj_id integer, name text NOT NULL, label text NOT NULL, type text NOT NULL DEFAULT 'text', owner text NOT NULL DEFAULT 'project', descr text, CHECK (type = 'date' OR type = 'duration' OR type = 'float' OR type = 'int' OR type = 'text' OR type = 'text-list' OR type = 'cost'), CHECK (owner = 'project' OR owner = 'task' OR owner = 'resource'), UNIQUE (proj_id, name), FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (proptype_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON property_type TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON property_type_proptype_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Properties -- CREATE TABLE property ( prop_id serial, proptype_id integer NOT NULL, value text, FOREIGN KEY (proptype_id) REFERENCES property_type (proptype_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (prop_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON property TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON property_prop_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Project properties -- CREATE TABLE project_to_property ( proj_id integer, prop_id integer, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (prop_id) REFERENCES property (prop_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (proj_id, prop_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON project_to_property TO GROUP planner; -- -- Task properties -- CREATE TABLE task_to_property ( prop_id integer, task_id integer, FOREIGN KEY (task_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (prop_id) REFERENCES property (prop_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (task_id, prop_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON task_to_property TO GROUP planner; -- -- Resource Group -- CREATE TABLE resource_group ( group_id serial, proj_id integer, name text NOT NULL, admin_name text, admin_phone text, admin_email text, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (group_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON resource_group TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON resource_group_group_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Resource -- CREATE TABLE resource ( res_id serial, proj_id integer, group_id integer, name text, email text, note text, is_worker boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT TRUE, units real NOT NULL DEFAULT 1.0, std_rate real NOT NULL DEFAULT 0.0, ovt_rate real NOT NULL DEFAULT 0.0, cal_id integer, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (group_id) REFERENCES resource_group (group_id) ON DELETE SET NULL ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (cal_id) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (res_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON resource TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON resource_res_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Resource properties -- CREATE TABLE resource_to_property ( prop_id integer, res_id integer, FOREIGN KEY (res_id) REFERENCES resource (res_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (prop_id) REFERENCES property (prop_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (res_id, prop_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON resource_to_property TO GROUP planner; -- -- Allocations (of resources) -- CREATE TABLE allocation ( task_id integer, res_id integer, units real NOT NULL DEFAULT 1.0, FOREIGN KEY (res_id) REFERENCES resource (res_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (task_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (res_id, task_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON allocation TO GROUP planner; --=-RQNiHzHpo4G0nrObhf6H-- From richard@imendio.com Tue Jan 6 17:47:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64EC8C02E; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:47:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F37312BE0; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:49:17 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FFAE313.2080808@nxp.com> References: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> <1073404345.505.20.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> <3FFAE313.2080808@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073407794.4429.4706.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:49:54 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Planner Dev X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:47:26 -0000 tis 2004-01-06 klockan 17.32 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > Similarly, the Planner would not be resolving resource allocation > problems by itself. Instead, it would offer a tool for the user to do > it on demand. For example, the user could select a set of tasks, then > hit a button to spread out the load in some pre-determined manner. It > could be as simple as going in the order of tasks (It would actually > make sense, since tasks tend to be entered in the expected order of > execution). There could be different buttons indicating different types > of action. The result would be a creation of dependencies as if entered > by hand, i.e. the Planner would not be re-calculating the resource > allocation rules. I have been thinking something along the lines of this too for a while. One way to do it could be to have task dependencies that planner sets up, and are handled exactly the same as manually added ones, but they are displayed differently to indicate that they are added to even out the resource load. I think a very simple algorithm could be very helpful (like you say, just spread tasks out, according to line nr ordering and the task priority property). What do people think of that? It should be a pretty straight forward task if anyone is willing to help out. /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From mjnf@uevora.pt Tue Jan 6 18:01:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from evunix.uevora.pt (unknown [193.136.216.1]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17FAEC02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:01:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (root@evunix.uevora.pt [193.136.216.1]) by evunix.uevora.pt (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id i06H5mLJ013074 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:05:55 GMT Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio?= Filipe To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-s90/rjJPrYNkCcBcQmDj" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Message-Id: <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:01:50 -0000 X-Original-Date: 06 Jan 2004 17:05:26 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:01:50 -0000 --=-s90/rjJPrYNkCcBcQmDj Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi On Ter, 2004-01-06 at 16:45, Richard Hult wrote: =20 > It's distributed with the source code. In a coming release we should > install it as well, and more importantly, add database setup code to the > GUI so you don't need to do that manually.=20 I didn't get it in my source (wich I got from Debian, instead of the official source). =20 > Attaching the schema for now, Thanks --=20 Mario Filipe=20 mjnf@uevora.pt http://neptuno.sc.uevora.pt/~mjnf=20 --=-s90/rjJPrYNkCcBcQmDj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/+urWVm7HI0r66XkRAmmlAKDEuHcenfPE+JLVIhX2njZlyOoi7wCggCF6 /Rpk0vpwm16is8QuT4paFes= =a1kl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-s90/rjJPrYNkCcBcQmDj-- From wsxyz6294@yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 19:10:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from web60706.mail.yahoo.com (web60706.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.117.229]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 91FC3C02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:10:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.184.83.239] by web60706.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:14:56 PST Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:14:56 -0800 (PST) From: Sheldon Simms Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073407794.4429.4706.camel@carrot> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:10:55 -0000 Richard Hult wrote: > tis 2004-01-06 klockan 17.32 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > > > Similarly, the Planner would not be resolving resource allocation > > problems by itself. Instead, it would offer a tool for the user to do > > it on demand. For example, the user could select a set of tasks, then > > hit a button to spread out the load in some pre-determined manner. It > > could be as simple as going in the order of tasks (It would actually > > make sense, since tasks tend to be entered in the expected order of > > execution). There could be different buttons indicating different types > > of action. The result would be a creation of dependencies as if entered > > by hand, i.e. the Planner would not be re-calculating the resource > > allocation rules. > > I have been thinking something along the lines of this too for a while. > > One way to do it could be to have task dependencies that planner sets > up, and are handled exactly the same as manually added ones, but they > are displayed differently to indicate that they are added to even out > the resource load. I think a very simple algorithm could be very helpful > (like you say, just spread tasks out, according to line nr ordering and > the task priority property). > > What do people think of that? It should be a pretty straight forward > task if anyone is willing to help out. Since I'm the one who started complaining, I'm willing to help out. I'm a good C programmer, but I don't have a lot of time at the moment and don't know anything about the internals of Planner. If that still sounds useful, toss me a task... -Sheldon __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From richard@imendio.com Wed Jan 7 11:25:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1373C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:25:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF7012BE0 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:27:42 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:28:19 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 10:25:51 -0000 tis 2004-01-06 klockan 19.14 skrev Sheldon Simms: > Since I'm the one who started complaining, I'm willing to help out. > I'm a good C programmer, but I don't have a lot of time at the moment > and don't know anything about the internals of Planner. If that still > sounds useful, toss me a task... There are a few subtasks: 1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually. 2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and planner-relation-arrow.c mostly). 3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load. 4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that dependencies are handled. 5. Implement the algorithm (mainly planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c). If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good starting points. Regards, Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From waldemar@nxp.com Wed Jan 7 15:05:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37768C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:05:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AeENZ-00041x-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:09:49 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AeENZ-0000im-81 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:09:49 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFC132C.2020007@nxp.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:09:48 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> In-Reply-To: <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:05:28 -0000

Richard Hult wrote:
tis 2004-01-06 klockan 19.14 skrev Sheldon Simms:

  
Since I'm the one who started complaining, I'm willing to help out.
I'm a good C programmer, but I don't have a lot of time at the moment
and don't know anything about the internals of Planner. If that still
sounds useful, toss me a task...
    

There are a few subtasks:

1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually.

2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and
planner-relation-arrow.c mostly).

3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load.

4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that
dependencies are handled.

5. Implement the algorithm (mainly
planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c).

If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good
On #1, if we use color or arrow style, then we probably have to make it available to the user to mark any dependency in that manner, not just those produced by the resource leveling tool.  That's because the designation should mean "dependency implied by resource constrains" not "dependency produced by the leveling tool".

Also, what follows is that we probably should mark the tasks with overcommitted resources in the same manner if they're not leveled. It would make it easy to see which need to be leveled.  The user should be free to mark any task with this designation manually.

The styles probably should go to the "preferences".  Maybe we come up with some sensible default.
starting points.

Regards,
Richard
From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Wed Jan 7 16:48:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0302.wanadoo.fr (smtp3.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.28]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23572C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:48:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-4-140.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.48.125.140]) by mwinf0302.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 38FFEC0002F9 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:53:01 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:53:09 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:48:39 -0000 Richard Hult sloffed: > There are a few subtasks: > > 1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually. > > 2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and > planner-relation-arrow.c mostly). > > 3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load. > > 4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that > dependencies are handled. > > 5. Implement the algorithm (mainly > planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c). > > If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good > starting points. Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. Let me take the example with two tasks for which of the two resources only one resource can work on both. It points that a resource commitement in a task can change against the time. This implies far more than it just sounds. Even if someone sets the balance between the 2 tasks for the resource. Task 1: ==================== (Resource 1, Resource 2) Task 2: ===== (Resource 1) ^ (1) (1) Resource 1 has finished task 2 on which he was working full time. He now ca work on task 1 at 100%. Gantt chart will have to make the distinction of before and after for computing its length in time (not in worked time). Tasks 2 lasts 5 and Task 1 35 days. Tasks one will take 20 (5+15) full days of resources 2 and 15 for Resource 1 Therefore Tasks 1 length will be 20 days. Implementing this means a lot of changes in the way resources and tasks are linked. Just warning to make things clear. Regards, Xavier Ordoquy. From waldemar@nxp.com Wed Jan 7 17:21:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C87C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:21:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AeGUn-0003cQ-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:25:25 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AeGUm-0000lp-S6 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:25:24 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:25:23 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> In-Reply-To: <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:21:07 -0000
Task 1 should be decomposed into two tasks with one-to-one relationship to resources.  Then, a simple click on the button does the job.

If not, the tool still works. It simply pushes tasks 2 behind task 1 (assuming the algorithm goes by the task priority and then by the order of tasks within the same priority).  If the manager has some insight into the nature of the joint work on task 1, he could adjust the chart. 

What's described as difficult requires proper decomposition of task 1, but that's something the user should do, not the tool.



Xavier Ordoquy wrote:
Richard Hult sloffed:
  
There are a few subtasks:

1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually.

2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and
planner-relation-arrow.c mostly).

3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load.

4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that
dependencies are handled.

5. Implement the algorithm (mainly
planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c).

If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good
starting points.
    

Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. Let me take the example with
two tasks for which of the two resources only one resource can work on
both. It points that a resource commitement in a task can change against
the time. This implies far more than it just sounds. Even if someone sets
the balance between the 2 tasks for the resource.

Task 1: ==================== (Resource 1, Resource 2)
Task 2: ===== (Resource 1)
             ^ (1)

(1) Resource 1 has finished task 2 on which he was working full time. He
now ca work on task 1 at 100%. Gantt chart will have to make the distinction
of before and after for computing its length in time (not in worked time).

Tasks 2 lasts 5 and Task 1 35 days.
Tasks one will take 20 (5+15) full days of resources 2 and 15 for Resource 1
Therefore Tasks 1 length will be 20 days.

Implementing this means a lot of changes in the way resources and tasks are
linked. Just warning to make things clear.

Regards,
Xavier Ordoquy.

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From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Wed Jan 7 17:38:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0401.wanadoo.fr (smtp4.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.27]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233AFC02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:38:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-4-140.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.48.125.140]) by mwinf0401.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 9ED845800130 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:42:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:42:55 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:38:24 -0000 On Wed, 2004-01-07 at 17:25, Waldemar Augustyn wrote: > Task 1 should be decomposed into two tasks with one-to-one > relationship to resources. Then, a simple click on the button does > the job. > > If not, the tool still works. It simply pushes tasks 2 behind task 1 > (assuming the algorithm goes by the task priority and then by the > order of tasks within the same priority). If the manager has some > insight into the nature of the joint work on task 1, he could adjust > the chart. > > What's described as difficult requires proper decomposition of task 1, > but that's something the user should do, not the tool. Well it can not always be decomposed. I'm thinking about experts that may have this sort of things to do. Pushing a task before the other would lead to letting the other resource on hold for 5 days which is not really acceptable. On a project with several tasks it can become really hard to move forth and back to notice those things. From cahanpm@operamail.com Wed Jan 7 17:55:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from spf13.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-67.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8E0C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:55:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from 205-158-62-68.outblaze.com (205-158-62-68.outblaze.com [205.158.62.68]) by spf13.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id B559F1801462 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:59:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 94770 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2004 16:59:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.74) by 205-158-62-153.outblaze.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2004 16:59:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 16267 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Jan 2004 16:59:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [213.120.90.59] by ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com with http for cahanpm@operamail.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:59:23 +0000 From: "Steve Evans" To: "Planner Project Manager" Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:59:23 +0000 Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies X-Originating-Ip: 213.120.90.59 X-Originating-Server: ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:55:07 -0000 Xavier Ordoquy wrote: > Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. Me neither! I think any form of automated resource levelling will be extremely complicated, and at best only give a rough schedule that the Project Manager can start from and work with. In practice I have only ever used the resource scheduling in Project Workbench (PMW) from Niku. Even though it's very sophisticated with the features such as front or back loading the effort, it frequently did strange things that would have to be manually corrected. I would favour the toolkit approach as the PM will always have to manually intervene in any automated schedule and anything that would make this easier would be better. Such things as moving tasks, reallocating resources and seeing the totals allocations per resource by period. PMW used a different model and maintained effort and duration separately - it didn't (at the time) have percentage allocation. For instance, imagine you had 2 6-hour tasks both allocated to the same resource. PMW would allocated 6 hours of task 1 and 2 hours of task 2 on day 1 and the remaining 4 hours of task 2 on day 2. Although I prefer this method to percent allocations, I would suppose that it would be a big change for Planner to adopt this model. Regards, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Xavier Ordoquy Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:53:09 +0100 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies > Richard Hult sloffed: > > There are a few subtasks: > > > > 1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually. > > > > 2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and > > planner-relation-arrow.c mostly). > > > > 3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load. > > > > 4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that > > dependencies are handled. > > > > 5. Implement the algorithm (mainly > > planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c). > > > > If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good > > starting points. > > Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. Let me take the example with > two tasks for which of the two resources only one resource can work on > both. It points that a resource commitement in a task can change against > the time. This implies far more than it just sounds. Even if someone sets > the balance between the 2 tasks for the resource. > > Task 1: ==================== (Resource 1, Resource 2) > Task 2: ===== (Resource 1) > ^ (1) > > (1) Resource 1 has finished task 2 on which he was working full time. He > now ca work on task 1 at 100%. Gantt chart will have to make the distinction > of before and after for computing its length in time (not in worked time). > > Tasks 2 lasts 5 and Task 1 35 days. > Tasks one will take 20 (5+15) full days of resources 2 and 15 for Resource 1 > Therefore Tasks 1 length will be 20 days. > > Implementing this means a lot of changes in the way resources and tasks are > linked. Just warning to make things clear. > > Regards, > Xavier Ordoquy. > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner ---------------------------- Cahan Project Management Ltd ---------------------------- -- ___________________________________________________ Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.operamail.com, which allows you to send SMS through your mailbox. Powered by Outblaze From richard@imendio.com Wed Jan 7 18:06:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F5F1C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:06:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C908712BE0 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:08:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> References: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073495328.4429.5262.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:08:48 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:06:19 -0000 ons 2004-01-07 klockan 17.59 skrev Steve Evans: > Xavier Ordoquy wrote: > > Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. > > Me neither! I think any form of automated resource levelling will be extremely complicated, and at best only give a rough schedule that the Project Manager can start from and work with. Well, I was mostly referring to the framework for doing it, rather than a resource leveling algorithm. It would allow for e.g. something Brian's suggestion. We could have the two different kinds of dependencies, that would mostly differ visually, since many people don't like to create "fake" dependencies between tasks that are not really dependent. And a very simple algorithm could just try to very stupidly add such dependencies between tasks that are scheduled at the same time and assigned to the same resource. Maybe that would be too stupid to be useful? Would having just the manual "resource dependencies" be useful? /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From waldemar@nxp.com Wed Jan 7 19:27:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F108C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:27:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AeITE-0004vk-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:31:56 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AeITD-0000o5-9N for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:31:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFC509A.1020406@nxp.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:31:54 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> In-Reply-To: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:27:33 -0000 >PMW used a different model and maintained effort and duration separately - it didn't (at the time) have percentage allocation. For instance, imagine you had 2 6-hour tasks both allocated to the same resource. PMW would allocated 6 hours of task 1 and 2 hours of task 2 on day 1 and the remaining 4 hours of task 2 on day 2. > >Although I prefer this method to percent allocations, I would suppose that it would be a big change for Planner to adopt this model. > > Hmmm. This appears to be the same model. The Planner would do the same thing if the "Resource Units" were set to 100% (BTW, the Planner should label this column as %). It's just that the Planner offers to limit a resource to something less (or more for that matter) than 100% at a time. That percentage figure reflects the Manager's directive to the resource to split his/her time. The planner would not be fiddling with these settings. From gmoffatt@gt.rr.com Wed Jan 7 19:54:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.texas.rr.com [24.93.47.41]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1155C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:54:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.triplanitary (cpe-67-10-117-21.gt.rr.com [67.10.117.21]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i07IwJvV008247 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:58:20 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Moffatt To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:58:38 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> In-Reply-To: <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401071258.38915.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: gmoffatt@gt.rr.com, Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:54:01 -0000 The paradigm for resource leveling is to think of the activity as a box or container and the resources as solid cubes of dimension one unit - for convenience I think of these as res/act from the record names in p3. Manually it is convenient to print our a (large) time grid indicating the time, the activities in groups and the resources as short abbreviations (loading diagram). Programaticly the leveling just pushes everything forward against total float - like coins across the exchequer - using rules the scheduler must determine. Practically, only some resources are critical and when I level I choose only the most critical resources to level by computer. Just as the scheduling needs adjustment, so does the leveling, and having seen the computerized leveling I usually insert 'crew ties' for the critical resources and review using the loading diagram so i do not depend on the 'stupid' automatic process. Modern scheduling theory includes some sophisticated algorhythms (web search 'critical chain scheduling') but from what I can see all the fancy math seems just to choose the leveling rules for you. -- Registered Linux user #312657 From brian@simpleprojectmanagement.com Thu Jan 8 03:19:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB70C02E for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 03:19:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from sdn-ap-032txhousp0046.dialsprint.net ([158.254.224.46] helo=SimpleProjectManagement.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AePpX-0005bb-00; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:23:28 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 20:25:34 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) To: wsxyz6294@yahoo.com From: Brian Christensen In-Reply-To: <20040106110003.4A5B9C047@master.imendio.com> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: planner@lists.imendio.com Subject: [Planner] Re: Planner Digest, Vol 3, Issue 5 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:19:07 -0000 >> Sheldon, >> >>> I'm trying out Planner for the first time today. It seems to work >>> very >>> well so far, but I have a >>> question. Is there any way for Planner 0.11 to implement dependencies >>> between tasks based on >>> (work) resource availability, or do I just have to manually create >>> task dependencies? >>> >>> Just in case I'm not sufficiently clear, I have a situation where one >>> "startup" task is a >>> predecessor of about 8 different tasks that are logically parallel. >>> However, all of the tasks are >>> assigned the same resource at 100% and Planner seems to be perfectly >>> happy scheduling all of the >>> tasks simultaneously, although the resource can't actually work at >>> 800% to do all of them in >>> parallel. >> >> This question goes back to the definition of what a dependency is. >> Most >> of the books say that a task A is dependent on a task B if task B >> can't >> start until task A is finished. However, even though the tasks are >> logically parallel, if the same person is going to do both tasks, that >> person will almost always have a preference in the order they are >> done. >> It is convenient to treat the tasks "as if" they were dependent and to >> define dependencies between them. >> >> It is better to define a "treat them as if" dependency than to let the >> tool define a random order for the tasks. This shows up most clearly >> when you are taking status from the team. Say your team member has >> been >> assigned tasks A, B, and C. that are logically parallel and so can be >> done in any order. Let's assume that the tasks will each take a week >> to complete. You let the computer assign an arbitrary order to the >> tasks and it comes up with C then B then A. What does your status look >> like if the person decides to complete task A first? You would have to >> report that task C is late and task A is early. You would also have to >> explain to your management and to your customer why it is not a >> problem >> to have a late task. Why create problems for yourself that can be >> avoided? > ... some snippage... > > I don't really see how this relates to my question, which was about > resource overcommitment. You asked whether there is a way in planner to define dependencies based on resource availability. The answer is "no". Planner only defines one kind of dependency that has to be used for all kinds of situations. The only controls you can set are whether a task should start on a specific date or after all of its prerequisites are complete. I was also trying to make the point that even if Planner did have an algorithm for automatically adjusting tasks based on resources you might be better off not using it. Microsoft Project has an option for doing this, but most project managers tell me that it is difficult for them to predict the kinds of changes the algorithm will make and difficult to get it to do what they really wanted it to do. The computer just didn't understand the situation as well as they did. They ended up backing out the changes (sometimes starting over) and then making resource adjustments by hand. The suggestion that Waldemar Augustyn made is the most sensible approach I have heard. Provide a tool kit of simple operations that the manager can use to adjust the schedule. Hopefully that's what Planner will provide in the future. > Perhaps most readers of this list are thinking > about software development projects and expect to a resource to be > capable of being 100% committed to multiple tasks at once. I was > thinking > of other situations where resources can not be overcommitted. For > example, > if the resource is a piece of equipment. Can it be in my office 100% of > time and in your office 100% of the time? You and I might have > logically > parallel tasks, but if both of our tasks require the equipment > resource, > they cannot procede in parallel (with 100% resource allocation), no > matter > what our manager might wish. > I accept that resource overcommitment should be allowed by the program, > but I would like to be able to make resources non-overcommitable. If I > have a non-overcommitable resource assigned to several logically > parallel > tasks, then the program might give me a choice: A) order the tasks > prefer- > entially, or B) allow the tasks to procede in parallel by dividing > (equally > or not) the resource commitment among the tasks, or C) some > combination of > A and B. My hope is that the program will make it easy to see an potential over commitment (perhaps color coding the tasks -- like many word processors have the option of underling possible misspelled words), but I hope that it doesn't start prompting me how to fix them. ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.SimpleProjectManagement.com (What everyone in your organization needs to know about project management.) From twanger@bluetwanger.de Tue Jan 13 01:50:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from web11.manitu.net (web11.manitu.net [217.11.48.111]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED38C048 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:50:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.1] (dsl-082-082-089-131.arcor-ip.net [82.82.89.131]) (authenticated) by web11.manitu.net (8.10.2-SOL3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i0D0tH813754; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:55:17 +0100 From: Markus Bertheau To: usenet In-Reply-To: <200401122340.44896.usenet@franksonlineportal.de> References: <200401122340.44896.usenet@franksonlineportal.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <1073955322.5077.72.camel@yarrow.bertheau.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:55:23 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:27:03 +0100 Cc: planner@lists.imendio.com, gnome-i18n@gnome.org, Kurt Maute Subject: [Planner] Re: Translation from Mr. Project into German language X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:50:42 -0000 =D0=92 =D0=9F=D0=BD=D0=B4, 12.01.2004, =D0=B2 23:40, usenet =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1= =88=D0=B5=D1=82: > Hi, >=20 > I am intrested to translate the manual of Mr. Project into German languag= e.=20 > Where I should download this and which file I should download. The software changed its name to Planner. http://planner.imendio.org/ You can download it along with the manual there: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/planner/0.11/planner-0.11.tar.bz2 The manual itself is planner-0.11/docs/user-guide/C/planner.xml But let someone else guide you on how do make sure your work integrates well with Planner. I've CCed the maintainer of the user-guide, Kurt Maute as well as the Planner mailing list. --=20 Markus Bertheau From waldemar@nxp.com Wed Jan 14 02:07:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 134BFC048 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:07:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AgZaG-0004IG-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:12:36 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AgZaF-0005ul-GT for planner@lists.imendio.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:12:35 -0500 Message-ID: <40049782.4060004@nxp.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:12:34 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager References: <200401122340.44896.usenet@franksonlineportal.de> <1073955322.5077.72.camel@yarrow.bertheau.de> In-Reply-To: <1073955322.5077.72.camel@yarrow.bertheau.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Planner] Cost calculations X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:07:49 -0000 I have just noticed, Planner's cost calculation is not quite right. It appears, it misinterprets the resource "units" value. I thought the "units" figure is really the percentage of time a resource is expected (allowed) to work on a task. The default is 100, which I think should be labeled with a %. Here is what happens: A Task takes 3 days to finish. There is one resource allocated to it at 50% time and 45 cost. Planner properly calculates the task to take six days (because of 50% resource), but the cost is calculated at 540. I would think, it should be 3*8*45= 1080 (three days * 8 hours * 45 $/hour). Or, perhaps, 6*4*45=1080 (six days * 4 hours * 45 $/h). Same thing with another task. It takes 5 days to finish, the allocated resource works 5% of time at cost of 30. Planner properly calculates the task to take 100 days to finish, but the cost is calculated at 60. I would think, it should be 5*8*30=1200. Or, 100*(8/20)*30=1200. I am using version 0.11. From ramirez@johalla.de Fri Jan 16 10:37:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from maus.johalla.de (evision30.do.revmap.vianetworks.de [194.77.215.62]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 062BCC047 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:37:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (begall@[10.3.4.13]) (authenticated bits=0) by maus.johalla.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i0G9g56D000491 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:42:10 +0100 Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Christoph Begall To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Message-Id: <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:37:05 -0000 X-Original-Date: 16 Jan 2004 10:41:34 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:37:05 -0000 Hi, I just checked: It would be debian fault if there would be not the original source distribution on there site, but even in the tarball from http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/planner/0.11/planner-0.11.tar.gz I could not find the docs/sql directory. Upto now it seems to be only in CVS. Am Die, 2004-01-06 um 18.05 schrieb M=E1rio Filipe: > Hi >=20 > On Ter, 2004-01-06 at 16:45, Richard Hult wrote: > =20 > > It's distributed with the source code. In a coming release we should > > install it as well, and more importantly, add database setup code to th= e > > GUI so you don't need to do that manually.=20 >=20 > I didn't get it in my source (wich I got from Debian, instead of the > official source). >=20 > =20 > > Attaching the schema for now, >=20 > Thanks > --=20 > Mario Filipe=20 > mjnf@uevora.pt > http://neptuno.sc.uevora.pt/~mjnf=20 > ---- >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner --=20 Christoph Begall, happy do be here From richard@imendio.com Fri Jan 16 10:40:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01684C050 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:40:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1323B12C12 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:42:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1074246202.8306.1522.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:43:23 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:40:40 -0000 fre 2004-01-16 klockan 10.41 skrev Christoph Begall: > Hi, > > I just checked: > It would be debian fault if there would be not the original source > distribution on there site, but even in the tarball from > http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/planner/0.11/planner-0.11.tar.gz > I could not find the docs/sql directory. > > Upto now it seems to be only in CVS. Sorry, what I mean to say was that it will be distributed. It was added to the dist a while ago in CVS but not in a release yet. /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From ramirez@johalla.de Sat Jan 17 21:30:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from maus.johalla.de (evision30.do.revmap.vianetworks.de [194.77.215.62]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09835C04F for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:30:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from knuth (p50903BC3.dip.t-dialin.net [80.144.59.195]) (authenticated bits=0) by maus.johalla.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i0HKZZ6E025532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:35:37 +0100 Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Christoph Begall To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1074246202.8306.1522.camel@carrot> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> <1074246202.8306.1522.camel@carrot> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1074372318.866.6.camel@knuth> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:45:18 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:30:30 -0000 Would it be difficult to add the information to the planner website? And where the CVS-repository can be found? Am Fr, den 16.01.2004 schrieb Richard Hult um 10:43: > fre 2004-01-16 klockan 10.41 skrev Christoph Begall: > > Hi, > > > > I just checked: > > It would be debian fault if there would be not the original source > > distribution on there site, but even in the tarball from > > http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/planner/0.11/planner-0.11.tar.gz > > I could not find the docs/sql directory. > > > > Upto now it seems to be only in CVS. > > Sorry, what I mean to say was that it will be distributed. It was added > to the dist a while ago in CVS but not in a release yet. > > /Richard -- Christoph Begall From richard@imendio.com Sat Jan 17 21:33:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 844C6C04F for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:33:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A1812C0A for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:35:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1074372318.866.6.camel@knuth> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> <1074246202.8306.1522.camel@carrot> <1074372318.866.6.camel@knuth> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1074371895.8306.3636.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:38:15 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:33:10 -0000 lör 2004-01-17 klockan 21.45 skrev Christoph Begall: > Would it be difficult to add the information to the planner website? > And where the CVS-repository can be found? Not at all. I've been meaning to do that for a while, I'll do it right away. Thanks for reminding me :) /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From ramirez@johalla.de Mon Jan 19 00:01:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from maus.johalla.de (evision30.do.revmap.vianetworks.de [194.77.215.62]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC55C04F for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:01:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from knuth (p5090241E.dip.t-dialin.net [80.144.36.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by maus.johalla.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i0IN666E011484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:06:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Christoph Begall To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1074467756.897.9.camel@knuth> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:15:56 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:01:03 -0000 What about having the "leveling tool" generate an order (maybe taking some points into account like priority or importance of a task or even the size of tasks (I would like that because big tasks normally show me that there is a risk or I have not elaborated a thing enough)) This order should be viewable only on request (like a grid in the background of dia). This would be an easy way of making resource overuse visible: In the normal diagram the project could be done in much shorter time than in the automatic alignment, because the tool would "see" that some resource makes it impossible to do things in parallel. Am Mi, den 07.01.2004 schrieb Xavier Ordoquy um 17:42: > On Wed, 2004-01-07 at 17:25, Waldemar Augustyn wrote: > > Task 1 should be decomposed into two tasks with one-to-one > > relationship to resources. Then, a simple click on the button does > > the job. > > > > If not, the tool still works. It simply pushes tasks 2 behind task 1 > > (assuming the algorithm goes by the task priority and then by the > > order of tasks within the same priority). If the manager has some > > insight into the nature of the joint work on task 1, he could adjust > > the chart. > > > > What's described as difficult requires proper decomposition of task 1, > > but that's something the user should do, not the tool. > > Well it can not always be decomposed. I'm thinking about experts that > may have this sort of things to do. > > Pushing a task before the other would lead to letting the other resource > on hold for 5 days which is not really acceptable. > On a project with several tasks it can become really hard to move forth > and back to notice those things. > > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner -- Christoph Begall From lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net Fri Jan 23 10:41:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CE1C047 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:41:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from [81.129.4.88] (helo=openmutual.net) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AjxuS-000741-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:47:28 +0000 Message-ID: <4010EDB0.6090903@openmutual.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:47:28 +0000 From: "lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-gb MIME-Version: 1.0 To: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.7.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:41:55 -0000 I've used Microsoft Project a lot including using it in a CMM Level 2 environment. Before you shoot me down for mentioning any Microsoft product, MS project is a good general purpose project planning tool. Not the best of breed with its resource levelling but still very good. Pick up a cheap copy of MS Project 98 to get an idea of the features; its bloated and Project 2000/2003 goes even further but I thought I'll try Planner (downloaded from web and did a ./configure, make, make install which was fine on Mandrake 9.2 and just had to add a few library packages), and see how usable it is for a small project; (My actual House cleanup prior to sale right now - so far 90 tasks with 4 resources and 10 summary, 5 milestones). I thought I'd give you my first impressions whilst I read your roadmap for 1.0 as it helps you confirm thoughts on whats going into 1.0 1) Defining links through using the click-drag is handy but I'm also very used to selecting (ctrl-click) two tasks and then clicking a "Link" button. You have the Unlink button but not Link. The main issue is click-dragging over many pages or dates: if you zoom out to see the whole project then the task bar isn't big enough in the gantt chart to click this (it just re-sizes the task). 2) Adding resources to tasks takes a long time. If a whole pile of tasks could by selected (ctrl-click) and then right-mouse or a suitable menu option had "Set Resource..." This will also be very important with task levelling. 3) MPX file format import AND export. Microsoft Project 98 was the last MS project to have this as an export. See http://www.microsoft.com/office/project/prk/2000/Five/67ct_2.htm Many other apps rely on this MPX format and may not all have migrated to MPP or MPD. May be nice to help people interoperate with Planner easily. MPX is not an XML but its a fairly nice easy to read ASCII and should be easy to pre-process into the Planner/MrProject schema. The MPXJ project (LGPL) has a lot more of this, though it is Java. See, http://www.tapsterrock.com/mpxj/ 4) Unable to easily view resource usage by day. Even when you have a levelling capability, when you run this in MS Project it could sometimes completely screw up your project shoving tasks out by years as it tried to resolve resource use and constraints. Thus many people manually level projects. You use a view that has the Resources on the left and Dates on the top with usage (0->100 for OK and then >100 for not OK e.g. font in RED) in the intersect. Thus if levelling isn't trusted or not the expected algorithm then viewing what resources get used by date is a manual compromise. 5) Resource Initials - these are a handy extra field because names can clutter up gantt charts (especially when a couple of people are doing one task). If a user has initials defined then use this else use the resource name is the basic algorithm which I think MS Project uses. 6) Task completion: Incrementing in 1% at a time is too low !. The tumbler needs to increment in +/- 10% at a time but the field could be manually set to an exact percentage. MOst people say a task is say 50% or nearly (i.e. 90% complete). A joke: 90% of a project takes 90% of the time. The remaining 10% takes the other half. Either way, no one refers to 51% complete unless for fun. 7) The program name of 'Planner' seems dangerously generic and I feel that it would end up being contested somewhere for its name. Maybe something like 'Gantto' and then pun its name by using a cat (gatto in Italian) with a gantt chart for stripes as a logo but IANAA (I Am Not An Artist). Plus it has a 'g' in the name for GNOME and gantto.com/net/org currently free I think (probably find its a swear word in some language !) ps: also the file name is was *.mrproject but can we use 3 char thus change to say *.gpo as I think thats free. 8) and finally - though by asking this question I'm probably showing my ignorance - how do I start to add code to Planner ? I'm starting back into programming work (and just restarted my degree in CS) so I can CVS the whole lot and can easily browse the source but has anyone tried using Anjuta and Glade with this project ? or is it all hand-coded C and I'm just spoiled from working with the likes of Eclipse and VC ? 9) Other things: Baselines: These are essential for any CMM metrics to show how actuals deviate from estimates. I use these a lot. Pert charts: never used them much but others do a lot. Sub projects: yes I do like these for big stuff but not when there was milestone constraints from within one sub-project and another. I do find it handy when doing e.g. software deployments that are global and thus sub-project each geographic region so you can have a global overview of progress by region. I'm thinking task that is a file/hyperlink to another Planner file and to parse that file and pick out ANY other task. I suspect that Planner could do this quite well given the nice XML structure to its own files. Shared resources (and shared calendars across projects: Tried this when we were doing CMM assessment and found it useful but back then using MS Project 98 and so it wasn't very friendly. Collaboration: This would be real handy. If a structured email message could be sent and replied to and have the Planner pick out the answers in the mails and update itself. Really what things like listservers do with the registration and reply logic. Split tasks: handy for when you just want to make a task drag on in background as a low priority. Thus when you show the gantt to someone you can still say you're doing it but other tasks take priority. and can only spend a little time now and then on it ;) Rgds. Lincoln From richard@imendio.com Fri Jan 23 11:07:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E8DC047 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:07:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4091612BE8 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:09:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <4010EDB0.6090903@openmutual.net> References: <4010EDB0.6090903@openmutual.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1074852756.7103.20.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:12:36 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:07:24 -0000 fre 2004-01-23 klockan 10.47 skrev lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net: Hi, > 1) Defining links through using the click-drag is handy > but I'm also very used to selecting (ctrl-click) two tasks > and then clicking a "Link" button. You have the Unlink > button but not Link. The main issue is click-dragging > over many pages or dates: if you zoom out to see the whole > project then the task bar isn't big enough in the gantt > chart to click this (it just re-sizes the task). > > 2) Adding resources to tasks takes a long time. If a whole pile > of tasks could by selected (ctrl-click) and then right-mouse > or a suitable menu option had "Set Resource..." This will > also be very important with task levelling. Could you please file these as bug reports/feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=planner (a separate bug for each issue) Both these should be pretty easy to implement, by the way. > 3) MPX file format import AND export. Microsoft Project 98 > was the last MS project to have this as an export. See > http://www.microsoft.com/office/project/prk/2000/Five/67ct_2.htm > > Many other apps rely on this MPX format and may not all have > migrated to MPP or MPD. May be nice to help people interoperate > with Planner easily. MPX is not an XML but its a fairly nice > easy to read ASCII and should be easy to pre-process into the > Planner/MrProject schema. The MPXJ project (LGPL) has a lot > more of this, though it is Java. See, http://www.tapsterrock.com/mpxj/ This would be a perfect project for someone to help out with. It would be pretty easy since it's a pretty much standalone project. Any takers? I can help you get started. > 4) Unable to easily view resource usage by day. Even when > you have a levelling capability, when you run this in > MS Project it could sometimes completely screw up your > project shoving tasks out by years as it tried to resolve > resource use and constraints. Thus many people manually > level projects. You use a view that has the Resources on the > left and Dates on the top with usage (0->100 for OK > and then >100 for not OK e.g. font in RED) in the intersect. > Thus if levelling isn't trusted or not the expected > algorithm then viewing what resources get used by date is > a manual compromise. Xavier, the resource usage view you're working on can show this, right? > 5) Resource Initials - these are a handy extra field because > names can clutter up gantt charts (especially when a couple of > people are doing one task). If a user has initials defined then > use this else use the resource name is the basic algorithm > which I think MS Project uses. > > 6) Task completion: Incrementing in 1% at a time is too low !. > The tumbler needs to increment in +/- 10% at a time but > the field could be manually set to an exact percentage. MOst > people say a task is say 50% or nearly (i.e. 90% complete). > A joke: > 90% of a project takes 90% of the time. The remaining 10% takes > the other half. > Either way, no one refers to 51% complete unless for fun. Both good points, please file bugs. > 7) The program name of 'Planner' seems dangerously generic > and I feel that it would end up being contested somewhere for > its name. Maybe something like 'Gantto' and then pun its name > by using a cat (gatto in Italian) with a gantt chart for > stripes as a logo but IANAA (I Am Not An Artist). Plus it has > a 'g' in the name for GNOME and gantto.com/net/org currently > free I think (probably find its a swear word in some language !) > ps: also the file name is was *.mrproject but can we > use 3 char thus change to say *.gpo as I think thats free. We can always tack something on before or after Planner if necessary. There's a bug report about the file extension, although personally I would prefer .planner. > 8) and finally - though by asking this question I'm probably > showing my ignorance - how do I start to add code to Planner ? > I'm starting back into programming work (and just restarted > my degree in CS) so I can CVS the whole lot and can easily > browse the source but has anyone tried using Anjuta and Glade > with this project ? or is it all hand-coded C and I'm just > spoiled from working with the likes of Eclipse and VC ? We use glade for all UI parts. I personally use emacs but I'm sure you can use any editor to write the code. > 9) Other things: > Baselines: These are essential for any CMM metrics to > show how actuals deviate from estimates. I use > these a lot. > Pert charts: never used them much but others do a lot. > Sub projects: yes I do like these for big stuff but not > when there was milestone constraints from within > one sub-project and another. I do find it handy > when doing e.g. software deployments that are > global and thus sub-project each geographic region > so you can have a global overview of progress > by region. I'm thinking task that is a file/hyperlink > to another Planner file and to parse that file > and pick out ANY other task. I suspect that Planner > could do this quite well given the nice XML structure > to its own files. > Shared resources (and shared calendars across projects: > Tried this when we were doing CMM assessment and > found it useful but back then using MS Project 98 > and so it wasn't very friendly. > Collaboration: This would be real handy. If a structured > email message could be sent and replied to and have > the Planner pick out the answers in the mails and > update itself. Really what things like listservers > do with the registration and reply logic. > Split tasks: handy for when you just want to make a task > drag on in background as a low priority. Thus > when you show the gantt to someone you can still > say you're doing it but other tasks take priority. > and can only spend a little time now and then on it ;) Good stuff but after 1.0, in my opinion. We need to get a stable useful simple application out soon :) /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From eisen@builtonlinux.com Fri Jan 23 11:16:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from dunhackin.org (66-98-222-120.acornhosting.net [66.98.222.120]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2C1C04F for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:16:57 +0100 (CET) Received: by dunhackin.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 3704E94312; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:22:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dunhackin.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32CFC4445A1 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:22:29 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:22:28 -0600 (CST) From: Hal Eisen X-X-Sender: eisen@dunhackin.org To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) In-Reply-To: <1074852756.7103.20.camel@carrot> Message-ID: X-Operating-System: Linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:56:20 +0100 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:16:58 -0000 > > 3) MPX file format import AND export. Microsoft Project 98 > > was the last MS project to have this as an export. See > > http://www.microsoft.com/office/project/prk/2000/Five/67ct_2.htm > > > > Many other apps rely on this MPX format and may not all have > > migrated to MPP or MPD. May be nice to help people interoperate > > with Planner easily. MPX is not an XML but its a fairly nice > > easy to read ASCII and should be easy to pre-process into the > > Planner/MrProject schema. The MPXJ project (LGPL) has a lot > > more of this, though it is Java. See, http://www.tapsterrock.com/mpxj/ > > This would be a perfect project for someone to help out with. It would > be pretty easy since it's a pretty much standalone project. Any takers? > I can help you get started. I'll take this one. Let's talk about it off-line. Hal -- Stop wasting money with Microsoft Windows! Ask me how... http://www.builtonlinux.com - Built On Linux (IT Consulting) From waldemar@nxp.com Fri Jan 23 16:35:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FDF4C04F for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:35:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Ak25f-0002A3-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:15:19 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ak25e-0001aL-2o for planner@lists.imendio.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:15:18 -0500 Message-ID: <40112C74.30806@nxp.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:15:16 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:35:52 -0000

Hal Eisen wrote: 
  
3) MPX file format import AND export. Microsoft Project 98
    was the last MS project to have this as an export. See
http://www.microsoft.com/office/project/prk/2000/Five/67ct_2.htm

   Many other apps rely on this MPX format and may not all have
   migrated to MPP or MPD. May be nice to help people interoperate
   with Planner easily. MPX is not an XML but its a fairly nice
   easy to read ASCII and should be easy to pre-process into the
   Planner/MrProject schema. The MPXJ project (LGPL) has a lot
   more of this, though it is Java. See, http://www.tapsterrock.com/mpxj/
      
This would be a perfect project for someone to help out with. It would
be pretty easy since it's a pretty much standalone project. Any takers?
It would be best if Planner could filter these types in the "open" dialog box and did the necessary conversion when selected. Similarly, the "save as" dialog should offer these types and the implied conversions when selected.  A simple "save" should use the format selected during "open".
I can help you get started.
    

I'll take this one.  Let's talk about it off-line.

Hal

--
Stop wasting money with Microsoft Windows!  Ask me how...
http://www.builtonlinux.com - Built On Linux (IT Consulting)

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Planner@lists.imendio.com
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From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Fri Jan 23 17:37:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0801.wanadoo.fr (smtp8.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.23]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D540CC051 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:37:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-2-196.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.124.196]) by mwinf0801.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id F03301800175 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1074852756.7103.20.camel@carrot> References: <4010EDB0.6090903@openmutual.net> <1074852756.7103.20.camel@carrot> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1074876156.492.9.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:42:37 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:37:03 -0000 Once upon the time Richard Hult sloff: > > 4) Unable to easily view resource usage by day. Even when > > you have a levelling capability, when you run this in > > MS Project it could sometimes completely screw up your > > project shoving tasks out by years as it tried to resolve > > resource use and constraints. Thus many people manually > > level projects. You use a view that has the Resources on the > > left and Dates on the top with usage (0->100 for OK > > and then >100 for not OK e.g. font in RED) in the intersect. > > Thus if levelling isn't trusted or not the expected > > algorithm then viewing what resources get used by date is > > a manual compromise. > > Xavier, the resource usage view you're working on can show this, right? This is the idea. I think I fixed some bugs about it and it may worth start testing it. Shall I change the --enable-ttable to --disable-resource-usage and include it by default in the built ? I'll try to look at the other points. Some seems to take little time to get really nice result. Especially the task link and resource assignment. Xavier Ordoquy. From gmoffatt@gt.rr.com Fri Jan 23 18:06:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.texas.rr.com [24.93.47.41]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DB26C051 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:06:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.triplanitary (cpe-67-10-117-21.gt.rr.com [67.10.117.21]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0NHC7vV000324 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:12:10 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Moffatt To: Planner Project Manager Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:13:28 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401231113.28391.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> Subject: [Planner] OPENSCHED project scheduling software X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: gmoffatt@gt.rr.com, Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:06:37 -0000 I also dont want to get shot for bringing up potetially controversial subjects but this looks interesting and these folks have some serious clientel - http://mtechIT.com/download/sched/ -wouldnt it be nice if they had a gui front end and you had their corporate support. Just a thought. -- Registered Linux user #312657 From rhwood@mac.com Fri Jan 23 18:54:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73D8C051 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:54:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (h-66-134-129-30.mclnva23.dynamic.covad.net[66.134.129.30]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2004012317594011200ote2le> (Authid: rhwood); Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:59:41 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <200401231113.28391.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> References: <200401231113.28391.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Randall Wood Subject: Re: [Planner] OPENSCHED project scheduling software Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:59:29 -0500 To: Planner Project Manager X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:54:10 -0000 It seems that mTech stopped working on OpenSched in late 1999, and that the project moved to sourceforge.net in 2000. (http://opensched.sourceforge.net) The project is active, but the maintainers recommend that users looking for a GUI use MrProject instead. Thought you might want to know. On Jan 23, 2004, at 12:13 PM, Gary Moffatt wrote: > I also dont want to get shot for bringing up potetially controversial > subjects > but this looks interesting and these folks have some serious clientel - > http://mtechIT.com/download/sched/ -wouldnt it be nice if they had a > gui > front end and you had their corporate support. Just a thought. > -- > Registered Linux user #312657 > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner > -- Randall Wood rhwood@mac.com "The rules are simple: The ball is round. The game lasts 90 minutes. All the rest is just philosophy." From lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net Sat Jan 24 14:00:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA98C052 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:00:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from [81.129.4.88] (helo=openmutual.net) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AkNTw-0004US-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:05:49 +0000 Message-ID: <40126DAC.30005@openmutual.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:05:48 +0000 From: "lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-gb MIME-Version: 1.0 To: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.7.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Planner] Reporting within Planner : whats the story with MrProjext ? X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:00:20 -0000 I miss the reporting that MS Project has but I notice that MrProjext ( http://mrprojext.sourceforge.net/ ) has a lot of nice reporting stuff (albeit command line driven. Once you get into big projects you need a nice and easy way of reporting on such things like my personal favourite: Should have started tasks !, as well as Should have finished tasks ;( Sounds like the MrProjext could easily be GUI'd from within Planner and then the data and parameters passed (hidden from the user) to MrProjext. The temporary files or result from MrProjext is then pretty-printed back to the user for display and printing. The MrProjext also looks like it could do the dirty work for exporting to Palm or iCal formats. This would be real nice if my Palm pilot could get loaded with Todo items as well as the Calendar loaded with milestones. Rgds. Lincoln. From richard@imendio.com Sat Jan 24 14:39:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35CA9C052 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:39:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A18112C0A for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:41:02 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Reporting within Planner : whats the story with MrProjext ? From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <40126DAC.30005@openmutual.net> References: <40126DAC.30005@openmutual.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1074951862.7103.41.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:44:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:39:07 -0000 lör 2004-01-24 klockan 14.05 skrev lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net: > I miss the reporting that MS Project has but I notice > that MrProjext ( http://mrprojext.sourceforge.net/ ) > has a lot of nice reporting stuff (albeit command > line driven. It would be great if we could achieve the same result but in a more maintainable way, i.e. through a report system in planner. It could perhaps be done through xsl. I'm not too happy with using perl for that purpose. It would also be nice to have a more generic framework for exporting data to other formats. The current HTML output uses xslt to transform the xml to html, and that module could be made more generic, by allowing it to use different stylesheets. /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From Axel.Missbach@t-online.de Sat Jan 24 09:33:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com (mailout04.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.18]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A045C051 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:33:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from fwd01.aul.t-online.de by mailout04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1AkJIY-0002Dx-01; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:37:46 +0100 Received: from t-online.de (VyFeouZSYelftZ9ubEZ3Sj9RAWFQTLNOKK2U8TFP-gB3IxhoZioXoQ@[193.159.70.204]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 1AkJIP-20gIsq0; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:37:37 +0100 Message-ID: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:37:24 +0100 From: Axel.Missbach@t-online.de (Axel Missbach) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: de, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: planner@lists.imendio.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Seen: false X-ID: VyFeouZSYelftZ9ubEZ3Sj9RAWFQTLNOKK2U8TFP-gB3IxhoZioXoQ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:07:27 +0100 Subject: [Planner] glib-2.0.pc X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:33:15 -0000 i'd like to try planner but running "./configure" i get the message: checking for glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 ... Package glib-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. Perhaps you should add the directory containing `glib-2.0.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable No package 'glib-2.0' found configure: error: Library requirements ( glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 ) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them. -My problem is, that there is a selfwriten (perhaps wrong) glib-2.0.pc file in the pkg-config-path and/or the glib-library has no path like /usr/lib/glib2 (running on suse8.2). From micke@imendio.com Sat Jan 24 16:10:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53705C052 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:10:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from chili.home.hallendal.net (h41n2c1o1035.bredband.skanova.com [81.227.17.41]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BCEF12C0A for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:12:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] glib-2.0.pc From: Mikael Hallendal To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> References: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Organization: Imendio HB Message-Id: <1074957364.5390.10.camel@chili.home.hallendal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:16:05 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:10:23 -0000 lör 2004-01-24 klockan 09.37 skrev Axel Missbach: > i'd like to try planner but running "./configure" i get the message: > > checking for > glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 > gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 > gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 > libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 > gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 > ... Package glib-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. > Perhaps you should add the directory containing `glib-2.0.pc' > to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable > No package 'glib-2.0' found > > configure: error: Library requirements ( > glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 > gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 > gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 > libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 > gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 > ) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable > if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them. > > > -My problem is, that there is a selfwriten (perhaps wrong) glib-2.0.pc > file in the pkg-config-path and/or the glib-library has no path like > /usr/lib/glib2 (running on suse8.2). I'm not understanding fully your problem. Have you written your own glib-2.0.pc file, and if so, why? Install the -devel packages of all of the above and they should contain the .pc files. Regards, Mikael Hallendal -- Mikael Hallendal micke@imendio.com Imendio HB http://www.imendio.com Phone: +46 (0)709 718 918 From rainer.Lay@informatik.uni-erlangen.de Sat Jan 24 16:17:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from faui61.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui61.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.36.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962CDC052 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:17:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui67 [131.188.36.67]) by faui61.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (8.9.1a/8.1.5-FAU) with ESMTP id QAA15425; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:23:22 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <40128DE9.90000@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:23:21 +0100 From: Rainer Lay User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040112 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] glib-2.0.pc References: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> In-Reply-To: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Lay@informatik.uni-erlangen.de, Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:17:44 -0000 Hi Axel, für SuSE 9.0 gibts hier http://packman.links2linux.org/?action=362 ein rpm für planner. Gruß Rainer Axel Missbach wrote: > i'd like to try planner but running "./configure" i get the message: > > checking for > glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 > gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 > gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 > libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 > gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 > ... Package glib-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. > Perhaps you should add the directory containing `glib-2.0.pc' > to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable > No package 'glib-2.0' found > > configure: error: Library requirements ( > glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 > gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 > gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 > libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 > gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 > ) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable > if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them. > > > -My problem is, that there is a selfwriten (perhaps wrong) glib-2.0.pc > file in the pkg-config-path and/or the glib-library has no path like > /usr/lib/glib2 (running on suse8.2). > > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner From jos@xos037.xos.nl Sun Jan 25 22:57:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from simba.xos.nl (simba.xos.nl [212.26.207.226]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF0EC047 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:57:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from xos037.xos.nl (xos037.xos.nl [212.26.207.37]) by simba.xos.nl (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13666 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:02:56 +0100 Received: from xos037.xos.nl (jos@localhost) by xos037.xos.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id i0PM35830066 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:03:05 +0100 Message-Id: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> To: planner@lists.imendio.com Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:03:05 +0100 From: Jos Vos Subject: [Planner] Opensched and resource scheduling X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:57:22 -0000 Hi, I just heart about the revival of MrProject as Planner. I also saw in the archives that someone mentioned Opensched a few days ago. In relation to this: my biggest problem with MrProject was that it didn't seem to do resource scheduling, so people easily worked on three tasks in parallel for 100% of their time. Has this been improved in the meantime? Is it planned? I never understood how people could use a planning tool that couldn't do at least that, which caused my disappointement for MrProject, although I tried it a few times (the last time with 0.9.1, IIRC) and I still hope one day I'll be able to use it. Cheers, -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Mon Jan 26 00:16:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0201.wanadoo.fr (smtp2.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.29]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5EE0C047 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:16:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-4-68.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.48.125.68]) by mwinf0201.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 34A6130003B8 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:22:21 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Opensched and resource scheduling From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> References: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:22:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:16:37 -0000 On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 23:03, Jos Vos wrote: > Hi, Hi > In relation to this: my biggest problem with MrProject was that > it didn't seem to do resource scheduling, so people easily worked > on three tasks in parallel for 100% of their time. This point has also been discussed on the mailing list ([Planner] Resource dependencies). As far as I remember it ended up in the fact that resources can be used above 100% and that resource usage shall not be compted by the application because it may lead to an infinite number of possibilities. However I almost finished correcting the majors bugs on the resources usage (the former timetable) which will offer you to view the resource load against the time and enable you to move task to reduce load. On another hand I *may* start working on a prototype to compute resource plan and add load constraints. > Has this been improved in the meantime? Is it planned? I never > understood how people could use a planning tool that couldn't do > at least that, which caused my disappointement for MrProject, Again, lemme take the example I've used before. I got 2 resources (R1 and R2) and two tasks (T1 and T2). T1 is 35 worked days long and T2 only 5. R2 can work on both but R1 can only work on T1. Resources may not be used more than 100%. So, how do you expect the application to solve that ? You can choose 1] R2 work full time on T2 and then switch on T1. This will make T2 take 5 days and T1 being 20 days (5 (R1) + 2*15 (R1+R2)). 2] R2 work half time on T1 and T2. This will make T2 last 10 (5/0.5) days and T1 20 days ( 10 (R1) + 5 (R2) + 2*10 (R1+R2) ) You can vary that as much as you want. You can't either set the percentage of work on a task before the computing. If you consider my previous example in the middle of a project, any task glitch will false the all planning and it may finish in having a resource used at 50% because you've set it this way. Consider you have this: days: 0----10----20----30 T0: ====== (R1) T0': ====== (R2) T1: ------======= (R1,R2) (depends on T0) T2: ------ (R2,50%) (depends on T0') Now imagine you just found that there's no need of TO' because it's something the customer doesn't want to any longer. You'll now have: days: 0----10----20----30 T0: ====== (R1) T1: ------======= (R1,R2) (depends on T0) T2: ------ (R2,50%) Now if you consider someone should either be allocated 100% to a task you're wrong with experts that have various tasks that doesn't take them full time (like those that get halftime with a crew and halftime with another within a project). Sharing time as (100/number of tasks) is also wrong because it may expand the critical path (examples are left as exercices ;) Therefore it was decided that planner will not manage resource by itself (at least in the near future) but will try to provide an accurate view to plan the resource load. (Do you agree on this point richard and mickael ?) The resource usage should be included in the next release (0.12) and will help gather opinion on it to make it better then. Regards, Xavier Ordoquy. From lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net Mon Jan 26 01:57:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C746C047 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:57:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from [81.129.4.88] (helo=openmutual.net) by protactinium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1Akv9u-0002Ax-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:03:23 +0000 Message-ID: <4014675A.7050709@openmutual.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:03:22 +0000 From: "lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-gb MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Opensched and resource scheduling References: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> In-Reply-To: <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.7.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:57:38 -0000 Xavier , yup I'd agree that in the initial instance if you can at least show the allocation and allow us to easily allocate resources to tasks then thats the first big step. The actual scheduling is a complicated combinatorial/constraint optimisation satisfaction problem as it'll grow to meet peoples expectations of what a project scheduler should do. The trouble with hard coding in C/C++ is that when Planner 1.X needs its scheduler upgraded to handle more wishes then it gets harder and harder to handle the new constraints. I'm thinking that this would need to be looked at from the point of view of what commercial schedulers like ILOG or Koalog, or GPL/LGPL solutions of the likes of Cheddar ( http://beru.univ-brest.fr/~singhoff/cheddar/ ) or StarFLIP++ ( http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/proj/StarFLIP/StarFLIP.htm ) are trying to solve. Anyone know of others ? I bet we could all work out the constraints we would like to see in projects, e.g. rules like -No more than X persons on a task, -Schedule Time Only within slack, -Person works on no more than X tasks, -Person works no more then X% on a task, -No more than X% or X people allocated from a group, -Task uses people only from X group, -Task start is between A and B (with flat or normal arrival distribution), - etc etc etc... the last is very much real-world and so our scheduler would have to resolve fuzzy constraints like a Task start is between A and B dates and you may have 1 or 2 workers available because we all know this is very much real life when people promise to be ready but are not and goods may arrive within a window. Some constraints would be set on the Task, some on the Resource and some on the Project preferences. Given these constraints, the resources, and the tasks then produce a schedule not by coding within Planner but by transforming the inputs and feeding to another program, then taking that other programs output and feeding back the result to the project (all hidden from the user). The result is simply a new list of Task start/end times and resource allocation and usage which Planner should have no trouble in updating its GUI. So I feel that scheduling *could* be quite easy if we could identify a suitable 3rd party (but LGPL/GPL'd) tool, export our sets and describe the constraints in the language required by the scheduler. Does anyone have experience with any GPL/LGPL schedulers ? or know how they are feed with data and constraints ?. The cheddar one looks interesting as its XML input based and GPL and seems like an active project. Lincoln. Xavier Ordoquy wrote: > On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 23:03, Jos Vos wrote: > >>Hi, > > > Hi > > >>In relation to this: my biggest problem with MrProject was that >>it didn't seem to do resource scheduling, so people easily worked >>on three tasks in parallel for 100% of their time. > > > This point has also been discussed on the mailing list ([Planner] > Resource dependencies). > As far as I remember it ended up in the fact that resources can be used > above 100% and that resource usage shall not be compted by the > application because it may lead to an infinite number of possibilities. > > However I almost finished correcting the majors bugs on the resources > usage (the former timetable) which will offer you to view the resource > load against the time and enable you to move task to reduce load. > > On another hand I *may* start working on a prototype to compute resource > plan and add load constraints. > > >>Has this been improved in the meantime? Is it planned? I never >>understood how people could use a planning tool that couldn't do >>at least that, which caused my disappointement for MrProject, > > > Again, lemme take the example I've used before. > I got 2 resources (R1 and R2) and two tasks (T1 and T2). > T1 is 35 worked days long and T2 only 5. R2 can work on both but R1 can > only work on T1. Resources may not be used more than 100%. > > So, how do you expect the application to solve that ? > You can choose > > 1] > R2 work full time on T2 and then switch on T1. This will make T2 take 5 > days and T1 being 20 days (5 (R1) + 2*15 (R1+R2)). > > 2] > R2 work half time on T1 and T2. This will make T2 last 10 (5/0.5) days > and T1 20 days ( 10 (R1) + 5 (R2) + 2*10 (R1+R2) ) > > You can vary that as much as you want. > You can't either set the percentage of work on a task before the > computing. If you consider my previous example in the middle of a > project, any task glitch will false the all planning and it may finish > in having a resource used at 50% because you've set it this way. > > Consider you have this: > > days: 0----10----20----30 > T0: ====== (R1) > T0': ====== (R2) > T1: ------======= (R1,R2) (depends on T0) > T2: ------ (R2,50%) (depends on T0') > > Now imagine you just found that there's no need of TO' because it's > something the customer doesn't want to any longer. You'll now have: > > days: 0----10----20----30 > T0: ====== (R1) > T1: ------======= (R1,R2) (depends on T0) > T2: ------ (R2,50%) > > Now if you consider someone should either be allocated 100% to a task > you're wrong with experts that have various tasks that doesn't take them > full time (like those that get halftime with a crew and halftime with > another within a project). > Sharing time as (100/number of tasks) is also wrong because it may > expand the critical path (examples are left as exercices ;) > > Therefore it was decided that planner will not manage resource by itself > (at least in the near future) but will try to provide an accurate view > to plan the resource load. (Do you agree on this point richard and > mickael ?) > > The resource usage should be included in the next release (0.12) and > will help gather opinion on it to make it better then. > > Regards, > Xavier Ordoquy. > > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner > From jos@xos037.xos.nl Mon Jan 26 09:31:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from simba.xos.nl (simba.xos.nl [212.26.207.226]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D23C047 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:31:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from xos037.xos.nl (xos037.xos.nl [212.26.207.37]) by simba.xos.nl (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA31193 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:36:48 +0100 Received: (from jos@localhost) by xos037.xos.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id i0Q8axQ31672; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:36:59 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:36:59 +0100 From: Jos Vos To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Opensched and resource scheduling Message-ID: <20040126093659.A31636@xos037.xos.nl> References: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net>; from xordoquy@wanadoo.fr on Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 12:22:22AM +0100 X-Organization: X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV, Amsterdam, The Netherlands X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:31:14 -0000 On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 12:22:22AM +0100, Xavier Ordoquy wrote: > As far as I remember it ended up in the fact that resources can be used > above 100% and that resource usage shall not be compted by the > application because it may lead to an infinite number of possibilities. Well, Opensched does it, AFAIK. And doesn't MS-Project solve this too? (I never used *any* MS-software, not even Windows ;-), so I don't know.) > On another hand I *may* start working on a prototype to compute resource > plan and add load constraints. Maybe intergrate the Opensched algorithm? > Again, lemme take the example I've used before. > I got 2 resources (R1 and R2) and two tasks (T1 and T2). > T1 is 35 worked days long and T2 only 5. R2 can work on both but R1 can > only work on T1. Resources may not be used more than 100%. > > So, how do you expect the application to solve that ? Maybe with priorities on tasks? If most (all?) tasks have a different priority, this should limit the possibilities (together with all kinds of other contraints, like dependencies, fixed allocation/starting time/dealines, etc.). > Now if you consider someone should either be allocated 100% to a task > you're wrong with experts that have various tasks that doesn't take them > full time (like those that get halftime with a crew and halftime with > another within a project). Exactly what I see in real life, so it should indeed be possible to pin long-lasting tasks for someone for, say, 25% of his/her time. > Therefore it was decided that planner will not manage resource by itself > (at least in the near future) but will try to provide an accurate view > to plan the resource load. (Do you agree on this point richard and > mickael ?) > > The resource usage should be included in the next release (0.12) and > will help gather opinion on it to make it better then. I'm curious how this will work, will certainly take a look at it. I'm not a planning expert, just want to use the tool, and considered it pretty useless for my purpose with the lack of this functionality. Thanks, -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From waldemar@nxp.com Thu Jan 1 01:33:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EBF6C02E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 01:33:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Abqq1-0000Ug-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:37:21 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Abqq0-0004oB-HE for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:37:20 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:37:19 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Some issues References: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 00:33:28 -0000
Sheldon Simms wrote:
--- Waldemar Augustyn <waldemar@nxp.com> wrote:
    
      
  
1. Extension.It would be nice to abandon this very long ".mrproject" suffix.
Three-letter extensions seem to be a  norm. *.pln or *.pnr ???  
        
    
  
The extension is a bit long, agreed. I'm not sure if it really matters though?
      

  
OK, I did.

I think this is one of those little annoyances that turn people off.
Most expect three letters extensions, I would give it to them.
Planner is generally pretty good wrt the usability issues.
Very few in-your-face Unixisms.  That's good.
    

I have to comment on this. The length of the file extension is NOT a usability
issue. You talk about "in-your-face Unixisms" without bothering to acknowledge
the facts -- that a three letter extension on a file name is an archaic remnant
of a dead operating system and is itself an "in-your-face" Microsoftism.

You say "Most expect three letter extensions" but what you really mean is "I expect
three letter extensions" or equivalently "I have such an emotional commitment to
whatever Microsoft Windows does, that I can't accept any deviation whatsoever".
  
My advice to you is to simply get over it and accept that fact that only a complete
idiot would reject a program because it adds ".mrproject" to the end of its files
by default. I prefer no extension at all. Using an extension to specify the contents
of the file is ridiculous. It is possible to change the extension of any arbitrary
file to ".exe" in Windows, and Windows is stupid enough to try and run it. Do you
really think that's a good thing?!
Three letter extensions have been widely accepted.  It does not matter who originated them (certainly not MS, their existence predates the first IBM PC).  I do not see the point of Planner fighting that war.  I believe it is in the product's best interest to go with the flow on things that "do not matter".


My suggestion on the matter is to add a preferences dialog where the user can
select whatever extension he wants, or eliminate the extension entirely. A newly
installed Planner could have a default file extension of ".planner" or something
similar (".mrproject" is wrong because the program isn't called "Mr. Project"
any more). That way, the default would make sense, people like me could remove
the extension altogether, and pointy-haired bosses, Microsoft sycophants, and
other conformists could invent some a three letter extension.
That's fine as long as it does not insist on appending anything.
From ramirez@johalla.de Thu Jan 1 11:46:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from maus.johalla.de (evision30.do.revmap.vianetworks.de [194.77.215.62]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AADD7C04E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 11:46:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from knuth (p50903316.dip.t-dialin.net [80.144.51.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by maus.johalla.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i01AoA6E010606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 11:50:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [Planner] File extension From: Christoph Begall To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> References: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1072954659.6683.12.camel@knuth> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 11:57:39 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 10:46:15 -0000 Regarding the file extension: What is the normal GNOME way of doing this? I think it is to append ., which seems quite reasonable to me. If somebody wants to put this in preferences, it should be stated very clearly, why this is so important. Otherwise one ends up with too many things in the preferences dialog, which normally will never be changed. The general trend seems to be to use less options (see epiphany vs. galeon). Am Do, den 01.01.2004 schrieb Waldemar Augustyn um 01:37: > Sheldon Simms wrote: > > --- Waldemar Augustyn wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Extension.It would be nice to abandon this very long ".mrproject" suffix. > > > > > Three-letter extensions seem to be a norm. *.pln or *.pnr ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The extension is a bit long, agreed. I'm not sure if it really matters though? > > > > > > > > > OK, I did. > > > > > > I think this is one of those little annoyances that turn people off. > > > Most expect three letters extensions, I would give it to them. > > > Planner is generally pretty good wrt the usability issues. > > > Very few in-your-face Unixisms. That's good. > > > > > I have to comment on this. The length of the file extension is NOT a usability > > issue. You talk about "in-your-face Unixisms" without bothering to acknowledge > > the facts -- that a three letter extension on a file name is an archaic remnant > > of a dead operating system and is itself an "in-your-face" Microsoftism. > > > > You say "Most expect three letter extensions" but what you really mean is "I expect > > three letter extensions" or equivalently "I have such an emotional commitment to > > whatever Microsoft Windows does, that I can't accept any deviation whatsoever". > > > > My advice to you is to simply get over it and accept that fact that only a complete > > idiot would reject a program because it adds ".mrproject" to the end of its files > > by default. I prefer no extension at all. Using an extension to specify the contents > > of the file is ridiculous. It is possible to change the extension of any arbitrary > > file to ".exe" in Windows, and Windows is stupid enough to try and run it. Do you > > really think that's a good thing?! > > > Three letter extensions have been widely accepted. It does not matter > who originated them (certainly not MS, their existence predates the > first IBM PC). I do not see the point of Planner fighting that war. > I believe it is in the product's best interest to go with the flow on > things that "do not matter". > > > > My suggestion on the matter is to add a preferences dialog where the user can > > select whatever extension he wants, or eliminate the extension entirely. A newly > > installed Planner could have a default file extension of ".planner" or something > > similar (".mrproject" is wrong because the program isn't called "Mr. Project" > > any more). That way, the default would make sense, people like me could remove > > the extension altogether, and pointy-haired bosses, Microsoft sycophants, and > > other conformists could invent some a three letter extension. > > > That's fine as long as it does not insist on appending anything. > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner -- Christoph Begall From waldemar@nxp.com Thu Jan 1 15:24:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04937C04E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 15:24:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Ac3oN-0007L9-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:28:32 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ac3oN-0005B7-Hx for planner@lists.imendio.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:28:31 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF42E8E.6030309@nxp.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:28:30 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] File extension References: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> <1072954659.6683.12.camel@knuth> In-Reply-To: <1072954659.6683.12.camel@knuth> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:24:37 -0000 Christoph Begall wrote: >Regarding the file extension: >What is the normal GNOME way of doing this? I think it is to append >., which seems quite reasonable to me. > > But why would you follow Gnome if there is Open Office out there? OO has a void that Planner can fill. Maybe the project managers will tell us what the intentions are. >If somebody wants to put this in preferences, it should be stated very >clearly, why this is so important. Otherwise one ends up with too many >things in the preferences dialog, which normally will never be changed. > >The general trend seems to be to use less options (see epiphany vs. >galeon). > > > From wsxyz6294@yahoo.com Thu Jan 1 18:14:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from web60703.mail.yahoo.com (web60703.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.117.226]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 19D19C04E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 18:14:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <20040101171818.25089.qmail@web60703.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.184.83.239] by web60703.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:18:18 PST Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 09:18:18 -0800 (PST) From: Sheldon Simms Subject: Re: [Planner] File extension To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF42E8E.6030309@nxp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:14:34 -0000 --- Waldemar Augustyn wrote: > Christoph Begall wrote: > > >Regarding the file extension: > >What is the normal GNOME way of doing this? I think it is to append > >., which seems quite reasonable to me. > > But why would you follow Gnome if there is Open Office out there? OO > has a void that Planner can fill. Perhaps because Planner is a Gnome application? I don't quite understand why you seem to think this is such a big deal. As you imply, OpenOffice does append a three-letter extension. That has never bothered me, although I think three-letter extensions are silly. Why does it bother you so much when a program doesn't use a three-letter extension? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From waldemar@nxp.com Thu Jan 1 20:40:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C48C04E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 20:40:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Ac8kF-0005km-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:44:36 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ac8kF-0003nh-FL for planner@lists.imendio.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:44:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF478A2.5010807@nxp.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:44:34 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] File extension References: <20040101171818.25089.qmail@web60703.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040101171818.25089.qmail@web60703.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:40:40 -0000 Sheldon Simms wrote:
--- Waldemar Augustyn <waldemar@nxp.com> wrote:
  
Christoph Begall wrote:

    
Regarding the file extension:
What is the normal GNOME way of doing this? I think it is to append
.<appname>, which seems quite reasonable to me.
      
But why would you follow Gnome if there is Open Office out there?  OO 
has a void that Planner can fill.
    

Perhaps because Planner is a Gnome application?
Sure, there may be some sponsorship issues that drive the product strategy.  I do not know how it works in the "open" development world.

As a user, I am looking for a management tool, not for a "Gnome enhancement".  I guess, it boils down to what the strategy is.  Is it  intended to be tied to, and to live and die along with, Gnome.  Or is it supposed to be a Project Management tool first and foremost that is looking for best ways to become a mainstream tool.
I don't quite understand why you seem to think this is such a big deal.
As you imply, OpenOffice does append a three-letter extension. That has
never bothered me, although I think three-letter extensions are silly.
Why does it bother you so much when a program doesn't use a three-letter
extension?


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From richard@imendio.com Fri Jan 2 12:38:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D43C04F for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:38:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0995612BEF for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:40:04 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Some issues From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF32AA5.7040506@nxp.com> References: <3FF1D363.10706@nxp.com> <1390.81.226.154.28.1072867262.squirrel@secure.mikan.net> <3FF32AA5.7040506@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073043631.11231.0.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 12:40:31 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 11:38:14 -0000 ons 2003-12-31 klockan 20.59 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > > It would be great if you could file a bug in the bugzilla database at > > > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=planner > > > > > OK, I did. Thanks! /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From richard@imendio.com Mon Jan 5 11:14:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E70C047 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:14:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B4C212BFE for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:15:55 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Some issues From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF35E7E.9090104@nxp.com> References: <3FF1D363.10706@nxp.com> <1390.81.226.154.28.1072867262.squirrel@secure.mikan.net> <200312311713.54828.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> <3FF35E7E.9090104@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073297789.4552.123.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 11:16:29 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 10:14:04 -0000 tor 2004-01-01 klockan 00.40 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > But in addition to batch entry, there is the issue of massaging a living > project. I did not expect to see performance issues with just a 100 > task sample. That worries me. Even more so when it's been speculated > the cause might be quite non-deterministic. I hope this will be > addressed in some way. Of course it will be, it's just a bug :) If anyone wants to try and fix it, I could give some pointers. /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From micke@imendio.com Mon Jan 5 19:04:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F21C047 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:04:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from h238n1c1o1035.bredband.skanova.com (h238n1c1o1035.bredband.skanova.com [81.227.16.238]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F1812BE0 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:05:59 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Some issues From: Mikael Hallendal To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> References: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendio HB Message-Id: <1073326406.13934.33.camel@chili.home.hallendal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:13:27 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:04:09 -0000 tor 2004-01-01 klockan 01.37 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > Three letter extensions have been widely accepted. It does not matter > who originated them (certainly not MS, their existence predates the > first IBM PC). I do not see the point of Planner fighting that war. There is no war to be fought. There are loads of programs not using three letter extensions, simple because there is a limited number of three letter extensions (and especially those that makes sense). I don't see how this has anything todo with whether planner tries to fill a void in OO.o or GNOME or just project managers in general. *.pln doesn't really tell the user anything, .planner does so the .pln does less usability-wise. > I believe it is in the product's best interest to go with the flow on > things that "do not matter". If there was a "flow", sure, but there isn't (unless we only target the Windows platform, a platform currently not a target platform at all). Regards, Mikael Hallendal -- Mikael Hallendal micke@imendio.com Imendio HB http://www.imendio.com Phone: +46 (0)709 718 918 From brian@simpleprojectmanagement.com Tue Jan 6 02:56:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED60C047 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 02:56:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from sdn-ap-013txhousp0033.dialsprint.net ([63.190.128.33] helo=SimpleProjectManagement.com) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AdgWN-0002Q3-00; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:00:39 -0800 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:02:42 -0600 Subject: [Planner] Resource dependencies Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) To: wsxyz6294@yahoo.com From: Brian Christensen In-Reply-To: <20031224110004.E344EC04F@master.imendio.com> Message-Id: <6997A9BE-3FEC-11D8-A40D-000393D72CDE@SimpleProjectManagement.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: planner@lists.imendio.com X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:56:30 -0000 Sheldon, > I'm trying out Planner for the first time today. It seems to work very > well so far, but I have a > question. Is there any way for Planner 0.11 to implement dependencies > between tasks based on > (work) resource availability, or do I just have to manually create > task dependencies? > > Just in case I'm not sufficiently clear, I have a situation where one > "startup" task is a > predecessor of about 8 different tasks that are logically parallel. > However, all of the tasks are > assigned the same resource at 100% and Planner seems to be perfectly > happy scheduling all of the > tasks simultaneously, although the resource can't actually work at > 800% to do all of them in > parallel. This question goes back to the definition of what a dependency is. Most of the books say that a task A is dependent on a task B if task B can't start until task A is finished. However, even though the tasks are logically parallel, if the same person is going to do both tasks, that person will almost always have a preference in the order they are done. It is convenient to treat the tasks "as if" they were dependent and to define dependencies between them. It is better to define a "treat them as if" dependency than to let the tool define a random order for the tasks. This shows up most clearly when you are taking status from the team. Say your team member has been assigned tasks A, B, and C. that are logically parallel and so can be done in any order. Let's assume that the tasks will each take a week to complete. You let the computer assign an arbitrary order to the tasks and it comes up with C then B then A. What does your status look like if the person decides to complete task A first? You would have to report that task C is late and task A is early. You would also have to explain to your management and to your customer why it is not a problem to have a late task. Why create problems for yourself that can be avoided? If the tasks are relatively small there is another approach you can use. If you plan on taking status weekly and the three tasks together would take a week or less to complete, combine them into one larger task. Then you have only one task to schedule and assign. The fact that the pieces of the larger task can be completed in any order stops being a scheduling concern. Speaking of enhancements to planner. Instead of an algorithm that schedules tasks based on resource availability, it would be more useful (and easier to implement) if planner would allow the scheduler to enter both "hard" and "soft" (or "as if") dependencies. They could be treated the same by the scheduling algorithm, but the distinction would help the project manager to keep track of which is which. -- Brian Christensen P.S. Sheldon, would it be okay with you if I quote your question on my web page? ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.SimpleProjectManagement.com (What everyone in your organization needs to know about project management.) From wsxyz6294@yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 04:36:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from web60710.mail.yahoo.com (web60710.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.117.233]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with SMTP id ECBE2C047 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 04:36:03 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.184.83.239] by web60710.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:39:59 PST Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:39:59 -0800 (PST) From: Sheldon Simms Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies To: planner@lists.imendio.com In-Reply-To: <6997A9BE-3FEC-11D8-A40D-000393D72CDE@SimpleProjectManagement.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 03:36:04 -0000 --- Brian Christensen wrote: > Sheldon, > > > I'm trying out Planner for the first time today. It seems to work very > > well so far, but I have a > > question. Is there any way for Planner 0.11 to implement dependencies > > between tasks based on > > (work) resource availability, or do I just have to manually create > > task dependencies? > > > > Just in case I'm not sufficiently clear, I have a situation where one > > "startup" task is a > > predecessor of about 8 different tasks that are logically parallel. > > However, all of the tasks are > > assigned the same resource at 100% and Planner seems to be perfectly > > happy scheduling all of the > > tasks simultaneously, although the resource can't actually work at > > 800% to do all of them in > > parallel. > > This question goes back to the definition of what a dependency is. Most > of the books say that a task A is dependent on a task B if task B can't > start until task A is finished. However, even though the tasks are > logically parallel, if the same person is going to do both tasks, that > person will almost always have a preference in the order they are done. > It is convenient to treat the tasks "as if" they were dependent and to > define dependencies between them. > > It is better to define a "treat them as if" dependency than to let the > tool define a random order for the tasks. This shows up most clearly > when you are taking status from the team. Say your team member has been > assigned tasks A, B, and C. that are logically parallel and so can be > done in any order. Let's assume that the tasks will each take a week > to complete. You let the computer assign an arbitrary order to the > tasks and it comes up with C then B then A. What does your status look > like if the person decides to complete task A first? You would have to > report that task C is late and task A is early. You would also have to > explain to your management and to your customer why it is not a problem > to have a late task. Why create problems for yourself that can be > avoided? ... some snippage... I don't really see how this relates to my question, which was about resource overcommitment. Perhaps most readers of this list are thinking about software development projects and expect to a resource to be capable of being 100% committed to multiple tasks at once. I was thinking of other situations where resources can not be overcommitted. For example, if the resource is a piece of equipment. Can it be in my office 100% of time and in your office 100% of the time? You and I might have logically parallel tasks, but if both of our tasks require the equipment resource, they cannot procede in parallel (with 100% resource allocation), no matter what our manager might wish. I accept that resource overcommitment should be allowed by the program, but I would like to be able to make resources non-overcommitable. If I have a non-overcommitable resource assigned to several logically parallel tasks, then the program might give me a choice: A) order the tasks prefer- entially, or B) allow the tasks to procede in parallel by dividing (equally or not) the resource commitment among the tasks, or C) some combination of A and B. > P.S. Sheldon, would it be okay with you if I quote your question on my > web page? Sure, no problem __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From waldemar@nxp.com Tue Jan 6 05:01:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11241C047 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 05:01:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AdiTR-000365-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:05:45 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AdiTQ-0008O3-LV for planner@lists.imendio.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:05:44 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFA3417.4030501@nxp.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:05:43 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <6997A9BE-3FEC-11D8-A40D-000393D72CDE@SimpleProjectManagement.com> In-Reply-To: <6997A9BE-3FEC-11D8-A40D-000393D72CDE@SimpleProjectManagement.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 04:01:35 -0000 Brian Christensen wrote: > Sheldon, > >> I'm trying out Planner for the first time today. It seems to work >> very well so far, but I have a >> question. Is there any way for Planner 0.11 to implement dependencies >> between tasks based on >> (work) resource availability, or do I just have to manually create >> task dependencies? >> >> Just in case I'm not sufficiently clear, I have a situation where one >> "startup" task is a >> predecessor of about 8 different tasks that are logically parallel. >> However, all of the tasks are >> assigned the same resource at 100% and Planner seems to be perfectly >> happy scheduling all of the >> tasks simultaneously, although the resource can't actually work at >> 800% to do all of them in >> parallel. > > > This question goes back to the definition of what a dependency is. > Most of the books say that a task A is dependent on a task B if That's all true above and below. However, the described situation is so common, it would be nice to have an easy way to resolve these conflicts knowing perfectly well it is really the manager's job to put his/her decision behind it. The tool could be quite dumb, for example it could blindly serialize the selected tasks in the order they appear. But as long as the user has a clear idea what the tool is doing, it could prove very useful. I can't wait to see what the "Time Table View" mentioned in the Roadmap can do. > task B can't start until task A is finished. However, even though the > tasks are logically parallel, if the same person is going to do both > tasks, that person will almost always have a preference in the order > they are done. It is convenient to treat the tasks "as if" they were > dependent and to define dependencies between them. > > It is better to define a "treat them as if" dependency than to let the > tool define a random order for the tasks. This shows up most clearly > when you are taking status from the team. Say your team member has > been assigned tasks A, B, and C. that are logically parallel and so > can be done in any order. Let's assume that the tasks will each take > a week to complete. You let the computer assign an arbitrary order to > the tasks and it comes up with C then B then A. What does your status > look like if the person decides to complete task A first? You would > have to report that task C is late and task A is early. You would also > have to explain to your management and to your customer why it is not > a problem to have a late task. Why create problems for yourself that > can be avoided? > > If the tasks are relatively small there is another approach you can > use. If you plan on taking status weekly and the three tasks together > would take a week or less to complete, combine them into one larger > task. Then you have only one task to schedule and assign. The fact > that the pieces of the larger task can be completed in any order stops > being a scheduling concern. > > Speaking of enhancements to planner. Instead of an algorithm that > schedules tasks based on resource availability, it would be more > useful (and easier to implement) if planner would allow the scheduler > to enter both "hard" and "soft" (or "as if") dependencies. They could > be treated the same by the scheduling algorithm, but the distinction > would help the project manager to keep track of which is which. > > -- Brian Christensen > > P.S. Sheldon, would it be okay with you if I quote your question on my > web page? > ---------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.SimpleProjectManagement.com > (What everyone in your organization needs to know about project > management.) > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner > > From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Tue Jan 6 16:48:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0501.wanadoo.fr (smtp5.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.26]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE051C02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:48:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-3-203.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.15.21.203]) by mwinf0501.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 472824001A0 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:52:24 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1073404345.505.20.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:52:26 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:48:07 -0000 Hi all. I'm working a bit on the time table view. It is someone else contribution. At the moment it shows you the resource usage level (none, between 1 to 100% and over 100%). You can also move tasks that overloads a given resource. First, I'm going to remove this view "resource usage" because timetable isn't very explicit. This put appart there are a lot of thing one can do with this view that would deeply affect planner and therefore needs to be discused before. The idea of implementing resource dependancies sounds cool to me but implies more than it first seems. Let me take an example. I have a project with resources R1 and R2. As they just finished a project rushing, I'm not willing to imply them more than 100%. I also have two tasks T1 and T2. T1 last 35 worked days and T2 only 5. R1 and R2 can work on T1 but only R1 can do T2. I enter the project in planner and what should the result be ? There are a lot of ways to solve the project. R1 works on T2 at 100% to finish it in the 5 days and then helps R2 on T1 (total: 20 days) R1 works on the two tasks half time and after 10 days comes full on T1 (same total). Therefore one could give an attribute to tell how needed is the tasks (ranging from "neede for last month" to "whenever"). However the example also implies that a resource commitement depends on the time line and it also implies a lot of changes in planner internal. I'm looking forward to your comments and ideas about that ;) Regards, Xavier. From mjnf@uevora.pt Tue Jan 6 17:25:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from evunix.uevora.pt (unknown [193.136.216.1]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE14BC02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:25:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (root@evunix.uevora.pt [193.136.216.1]) by evunix.uevora.pt (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id i06GTKLJ029501 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:29:20 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio?= Filipe To: Planner Project Manager Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-06GEnnMAxDSCTunwSe6J" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Message-Id: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Planner] SQL schema for planner X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:25:18 -0000 X-Original-Date: 06 Jan 2004 16:29:12 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:25:18 -0000 --=-06GEnnMAxDSCTunwSe6J Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Is the sql schema for planner available anywhere? Thanks --=20 Mario Filipe=20 mjnf@uevora.pt http://neptuno.sc.uevora.pt/~mjnf=20 --=-06GEnnMAxDSCTunwSe6J Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/+uJYVm7HI0r66XkRAm50AKDBxiMkHozWfmEWpyyqUwEQtV3tygCg4QtU J2sSfqA/omI4wb7aUqMUoc8= =brjz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-06GEnnMAxDSCTunwSe6J-- From waldemar@nxp.com Tue Jan 6 17:28:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D1CC02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:28:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Adu7x-0003ws-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:32:21 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Adu7w-0000Em-MY for planner@lists.imendio.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:32:20 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFAE313.2080808@nxp.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:32:19 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> <1073404345.505.20.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> In-Reply-To: <1073404345.505.20.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:28:04 -0000 Resource allocation is a very complex problem. Invariably, the solution requires the Manager's judgment. With modest means, it may be very difficult, if not impossible, to design a tool that uses rules and parameters to resolve conflicts automatically. Therefore, we may be better off considering a "toolset" approach, something analogous to various tools most drawing programs use. For example the "alignment tool" is a good reference. A drawing program does not align objects on its own. Instead, the user can select a few objects and hit the "align" button to get the desirable effect. Similarly, the Planner would not be resolving resource allocation problems by itself. Instead, it would offer a tool for the user to do it on demand. For example, the user could select a set of tasks, then hit a button to spread out the load in some pre-determined manner. It could be as simple as going in the order of tasks (It would actually make sense, since tasks tend to be entered in the expected order of execution). There could be different buttons indicating different types of action. The result would be a creation of dependencies as if entered by hand, i.e. the Planner would not be re-calculating the resource allocation rules. Xavier Ordoquy wrote: >Hi all. > >I'm working a bit on the time table view. >It is someone else contribution. At the moment it shows you the resource usage level (none, between 1 to 100% and over 100%). >You can also move tasks that overloads a given resource. > >First, I'm going to remove this view "resource usage" because timetable isn't very explicit. >This put appart there are a lot of thing one can do with this view that would deeply affect planner and therefore needs to be discused before. > >The idea of implementing resource dependancies sounds cool to me but implies more than it first seems. >Let me take an example. >I have a project with resources R1 and R2. As they just finished a project rushing, I'm not willing to imply them more than 100%. I also have two tasks T1 and T2. >T1 last 35 worked days and T2 only 5. R1 and R2 can work on T1 but only R1 can do T2. >I enter the project in planner and what should the result be ? There are a lot of ways to solve the project. > >R1 works on T2 at 100% to finish it in the 5 days and then helps R2 on T1 (total: 20 days) >R1 works on the two tasks half time and after 10 days comes full on T1 (same total). > >Therefore one could give an attribute to tell how needed is the tasks (ranging from "neede for last month" to "whenever"). >However the example also implies that a resource commitement depends on the time line and it also implies a lot of changes in planner internal. > >I'm looking forward to your comments and ideas about that ;) > >Regards, >Xavier. > >_______________________________________________ >Planner mailing list >Planner@lists.imendio.com >http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner > > > > From richard@imendio.com Tue Jan 6 17:42:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 841F3C02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 784EC12BE0 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:44:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-RQNiHzHpo4G0nrObhf6H" Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:45:04 +0100 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:42:36 -0000 --=-RQNiHzHpo4G0nrObhf6H Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit tis 2004-01-06 klockan 17.29 skrev Mário Filipe: > Hi > > Is the sql schema for planner available anywhere? It's distributed with the source code. In a coming release we should install it as well, and more importantly, add database setup code to the GUI so you don't need to do that manually. Attaching the schema for now, Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com --=-RQNiHzHpo4G0nrObhf6H Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=database.sql Content-Type: text/x-sql; name=database.sql; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- $Id: database.sql,v 1.1.1.1 2003/12/01 17:36:26 rhult Exp $ -- Planner Database Schema -- Daniel Lundin -- Richard Hult -- Copyright 2003 CodeFactory AB -- -- Project -- CREATE TABLE project ( proj_id serial, name text NOT NULL, company text, manager text, proj_start date NOT NULL DEFAULT CURRENT_TIMESTAMP, cal_id integer, phase text, default_group_id integer, revision integer, last_user text NOT NULL DEFAULT (user), PRIMARY KEY (proj_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON project TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON project_proj_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Phases -- CREATE TABLE phase ( phase_id serial, proj_id integer, name text NOT NULL, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (phase_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON phase TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON phase_phase_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Day Types -- CREATE TABLE daytype ( dtype_id serial, proj_id integer, name text, descr text, is_work boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT FALSE, is_nonwork boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT FALSE, UNIQUE (proj_id, name), FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (dtype_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON daytype TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON daytype_dtype_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Calendar -- CREATE TABLE calendar ( cal_id serial, proj_id integer, parent_cid integer, name text, day_mon integer DEFAULT NULL, day_tue integer DEFAULT NULL, day_wed integer DEFAULT NULL, day_thu integer DEFAULT NULL, day_fri integer DEFAULT NULL, day_sat integer DEFAULT NULL, day_sun integer DEFAULT NULL, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (day_mon) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_tue) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_wed) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_thu) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_fri) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_sat) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_sun) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (parent_cid) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE SET NULL ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (cal_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON calendar TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON calendar_cal_id_seq TO GROUP planner; ALTER TABLE project ADD CONSTRAINT project_cal_id FOREIGN KEY (cal_id) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED; -- -- Day -- CREATE TABLE day ( day_id serial, cal_id integer, dtype_id integer, date date, FOREIGN KEY (dtype_id) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (cal_id) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (day_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON day TO GROUP planner; -- -- Day (working) Interval -- CREATE TABLE day_interval ( cal_id integer, dtype_id integer, start_time time with time zone, end_time time with time zone, FOREIGN KEY (dtype_id) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE, FOREIGN KEY (cal_id) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (dtype_id, cal_id, start_time, end_time) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON day_interval TO GROUP planner; -- -- Task -- CREATE TABLE task ( task_id serial, parent_id integer, proj_id integer, name text NOT NULL, note text, start timestamp with time zone, finish timestamp with time zone, work integer DEFAULT 0, duration integer DEFAULT 0, percent_complete integer DEFAULT 0, is_milestone boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT FALSE, is_fixed_work boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT TRUE, constraint_type text NOT NULL DEFAULT 'ASAP', constraint_time timestamp with time zone, CHECK (constraint_type = 'ASAP' OR constraint_type = 'MSO' OR constraint_type = 'FNLT' OR constraint_type = 'SNET'), CHECK (percent_complete > -1 AND percent_complete < 101), FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (parent_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE SET NULL ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (task_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON task TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON task_task_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- FIXME: Add triggers to handle different types of tasks/milestones -- -- Predecessor (tasks) -- CREATE TABLE predecessor ( task_id integer NOT NULL, pred_task_id integer NOT NULL, pred_id serial, type text NOT NULL DEFAULT 'FS', lag integer DEFAULT 0, CHECK (type = 'FS' OR type = 'FF' OR type = 'SS' OR type = 'SF'), UNIQUE (pred_id), FOREIGN KEY (task_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (pred_task_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (task_id, pred_task_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON predecessor TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON predecessor_pred_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Property types -- CREATE TABLE property_type ( proptype_id serial, proj_id integer, name text NOT NULL, label text NOT NULL, type text NOT NULL DEFAULT 'text', owner text NOT NULL DEFAULT 'project', descr text, CHECK (type = 'date' OR type = 'duration' OR type = 'float' OR type = 'int' OR type = 'text' OR type = 'text-list' OR type = 'cost'), CHECK (owner = 'project' OR owner = 'task' OR owner = 'resource'), UNIQUE (proj_id, name), FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (proptype_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON property_type TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON property_type_proptype_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Properties -- CREATE TABLE property ( prop_id serial, proptype_id integer NOT NULL, value text, FOREIGN KEY (proptype_id) REFERENCES property_type (proptype_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (prop_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON property TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON property_prop_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Project properties -- CREATE TABLE project_to_property ( proj_id integer, prop_id integer, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (prop_id) REFERENCES property (prop_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (proj_id, prop_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON project_to_property TO GROUP planner; -- -- Task properties -- CREATE TABLE task_to_property ( prop_id integer, task_id integer, FOREIGN KEY (task_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (prop_id) REFERENCES property (prop_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (task_id, prop_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON task_to_property TO GROUP planner; -- -- Resource Group -- CREATE TABLE resource_group ( group_id serial, proj_id integer, name text NOT NULL, admin_name text, admin_phone text, admin_email text, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (group_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON resource_group TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON resource_group_group_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Resource -- CREATE TABLE resource ( res_id serial, proj_id integer, group_id integer, name text, email text, note text, is_worker boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT TRUE, units real NOT NULL DEFAULT 1.0, std_rate real NOT NULL DEFAULT 0.0, ovt_rate real NOT NULL DEFAULT 0.0, cal_id integer, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (group_id) REFERENCES resource_group (group_id) ON DELETE SET NULL ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (cal_id) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (res_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON resource TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON resource_res_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Resource properties -- CREATE TABLE resource_to_property ( prop_id integer, res_id integer, FOREIGN KEY (res_id) REFERENCES resource (res_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (prop_id) REFERENCES property (prop_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (res_id, prop_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON resource_to_property TO GROUP planner; -- -- Allocations (of resources) -- CREATE TABLE allocation ( task_id integer, res_id integer, units real NOT NULL DEFAULT 1.0, FOREIGN KEY (res_id) REFERENCES resource (res_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (task_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (res_id, task_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON allocation TO GROUP planner; --=-RQNiHzHpo4G0nrObhf6H-- From richard@imendio.com Tue Jan 6 17:47:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64EC8C02E; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:47:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F37312BE0; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:49:17 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FFAE313.2080808@nxp.com> References: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> <1073404345.505.20.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> <3FFAE313.2080808@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073407794.4429.4706.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:49:54 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Planner Dev X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:47:26 -0000 tis 2004-01-06 klockan 17.32 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > Similarly, the Planner would not be resolving resource allocation > problems by itself. Instead, it would offer a tool for the user to do > it on demand. For example, the user could select a set of tasks, then > hit a button to spread out the load in some pre-determined manner. It > could be as simple as going in the order of tasks (It would actually > make sense, since tasks tend to be entered in the expected order of > execution). There could be different buttons indicating different types > of action. The result would be a creation of dependencies as if entered > by hand, i.e. the Planner would not be re-calculating the resource > allocation rules. I have been thinking something along the lines of this too for a while. One way to do it could be to have task dependencies that planner sets up, and are handled exactly the same as manually added ones, but they are displayed differently to indicate that they are added to even out the resource load. I think a very simple algorithm could be very helpful (like you say, just spread tasks out, according to line nr ordering and the task priority property). What do people think of that? It should be a pretty straight forward task if anyone is willing to help out. /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From mjnf@uevora.pt Tue Jan 6 18:01:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from evunix.uevora.pt (unknown [193.136.216.1]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17FAEC02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:01:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (root@evunix.uevora.pt [193.136.216.1]) by evunix.uevora.pt (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id i06H5mLJ013074 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:05:55 GMT Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio?= Filipe To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-s90/rjJPrYNkCcBcQmDj" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Message-Id: <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:01:50 -0000 X-Original-Date: 06 Jan 2004 17:05:26 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:01:50 -0000 --=-s90/rjJPrYNkCcBcQmDj Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi On Ter, 2004-01-06 at 16:45, Richard Hult wrote: =20 > It's distributed with the source code. In a coming release we should > install it as well, and more importantly, add database setup code to the > GUI so you don't need to do that manually.=20 I didn't get it in my source (wich I got from Debian, instead of the official source). =20 > Attaching the schema for now, Thanks --=20 Mario Filipe=20 mjnf@uevora.pt http://neptuno.sc.uevora.pt/~mjnf=20 --=-s90/rjJPrYNkCcBcQmDj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/+urWVm7HI0r66XkRAmmlAKDEuHcenfPE+JLVIhX2njZlyOoi7wCggCF6 /Rpk0vpwm16is8QuT4paFes= =a1kl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-s90/rjJPrYNkCcBcQmDj-- From wsxyz6294@yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 19:10:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from web60706.mail.yahoo.com (web60706.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.117.229]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 91FC3C02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:10:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.184.83.239] by web60706.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:14:56 PST Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:14:56 -0800 (PST) From: Sheldon Simms Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073407794.4429.4706.camel@carrot> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:10:55 -0000 Richard Hult wrote: > tis 2004-01-06 klockan 17.32 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > > > Similarly, the Planner would not be resolving resource allocation > > problems by itself. Instead, it would offer a tool for the user to do > > it on demand. For example, the user could select a set of tasks, then > > hit a button to spread out the load in some pre-determined manner. It > > could be as simple as going in the order of tasks (It would actually > > make sense, since tasks tend to be entered in the expected order of > > execution). There could be different buttons indicating different types > > of action. The result would be a creation of dependencies as if entered > > by hand, i.e. the Planner would not be re-calculating the resource > > allocation rules. > > I have been thinking something along the lines of this too for a while. > > One way to do it could be to have task dependencies that planner sets > up, and are handled exactly the same as manually added ones, but they > are displayed differently to indicate that they are added to even out > the resource load. I think a very simple algorithm could be very helpful > (like you say, just spread tasks out, according to line nr ordering and > the task priority property). > > What do people think of that? It should be a pretty straight forward > task if anyone is willing to help out. Since I'm the one who started complaining, I'm willing to help out. I'm a good C programmer, but I don't have a lot of time at the moment and don't know anything about the internals of Planner. If that still sounds useful, toss me a task... -Sheldon __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From richard@imendio.com Wed Jan 7 11:25:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1373C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:25:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF7012BE0 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:27:42 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:28:19 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 10:25:51 -0000 tis 2004-01-06 klockan 19.14 skrev Sheldon Simms: > Since I'm the one who started complaining, I'm willing to help out. > I'm a good C programmer, but I don't have a lot of time at the moment > and don't know anything about the internals of Planner. If that still > sounds useful, toss me a task... There are a few subtasks: 1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually. 2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and planner-relation-arrow.c mostly). 3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load. 4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that dependencies are handled. 5. Implement the algorithm (mainly planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c). If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good starting points. Regards, Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From waldemar@nxp.com Wed Jan 7 15:05:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37768C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:05:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AeENZ-00041x-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:09:49 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AeENZ-0000im-81 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:09:49 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFC132C.2020007@nxp.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:09:48 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> In-Reply-To: <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:05:28 -0000

Richard Hult wrote:
tis 2004-01-06 klockan 19.14 skrev Sheldon Simms:

  
Since I'm the one who started complaining, I'm willing to help out.
I'm a good C programmer, but I don't have a lot of time at the moment
and don't know anything about the internals of Planner. If that still
sounds useful, toss me a task...
    

There are a few subtasks:

1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually.

2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and
planner-relation-arrow.c mostly).

3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load.

4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that
dependencies are handled.

5. Implement the algorithm (mainly
planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c).

If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good
On #1, if we use color or arrow style, then we probably have to make it available to the user to mark any dependency in that manner, not just those produced by the resource leveling tool.  That's because the designation should mean "dependency implied by resource constrains" not "dependency produced by the leveling tool".

Also, what follows is that we probably should mark the tasks with overcommitted resources in the same manner if they're not leveled. It would make it easy to see which need to be leveled.  The user should be free to mark any task with this designation manually.

The styles probably should go to the "preferences".  Maybe we come up with some sensible default.
starting points.

Regards,
Richard
From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Wed Jan 7 16:48:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0302.wanadoo.fr (smtp3.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.28]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23572C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:48:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-4-140.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.48.125.140]) by mwinf0302.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 38FFEC0002F9 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:53:01 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:53:09 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:48:39 -0000 Richard Hult sloffed: > There are a few subtasks: > > 1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually. > > 2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and > planner-relation-arrow.c mostly). > > 3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load. > > 4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that > dependencies are handled. > > 5. Implement the algorithm (mainly > planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c). > > If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good > starting points. Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. Let me take the example with two tasks for which of the two resources only one resource can work on both. It points that a resource commitement in a task can change against the time. This implies far more than it just sounds. Even if someone sets the balance between the 2 tasks for the resource. Task 1: ==================== (Resource 1, Resource 2) Task 2: ===== (Resource 1) ^ (1) (1) Resource 1 has finished task 2 on which he was working full time. He now ca work on task 1 at 100%. Gantt chart will have to make the distinction of before and after for computing its length in time (not in worked time). Tasks 2 lasts 5 and Task 1 35 days. Tasks one will take 20 (5+15) full days of resources 2 and 15 for Resource 1 Therefore Tasks 1 length will be 20 days. Implementing this means a lot of changes in the way resources and tasks are linked. Just warning to make things clear. Regards, Xavier Ordoquy. From waldemar@nxp.com Wed Jan 7 17:21:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C87C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:21:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AeGUn-0003cQ-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:25:25 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AeGUm-0000lp-S6 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:25:24 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:25:23 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> In-Reply-To: <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:21:07 -0000
Task 1 should be decomposed into two tasks with one-to-one relationship to resources.  Then, a simple click on the button does the job.

If not, the tool still works. It simply pushes tasks 2 behind task 1 (assuming the algorithm goes by the task priority and then by the order of tasks within the same priority).  If the manager has some insight into the nature of the joint work on task 1, he could adjust the chart. 

What's described as difficult requires proper decomposition of task 1, but that's something the user should do, not the tool.



Xavier Ordoquy wrote:
Richard Hult sloffed:
  
There are a few subtasks:

1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually.

2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and
planner-relation-arrow.c mostly).

3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load.

4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that
dependencies are handled.

5. Implement the algorithm (mainly
planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c).

If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good
starting points.
    

Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. Let me take the example with
two tasks for which of the two resources only one resource can work on
both. It points that a resource commitement in a task can change against
the time. This implies far more than it just sounds. Even if someone sets
the balance between the 2 tasks for the resource.

Task 1: ==================== (Resource 1, Resource 2)
Task 2: ===== (Resource 1)
             ^ (1)

(1) Resource 1 has finished task 2 on which he was working full time. He
now ca work on task 1 at 100%. Gantt chart will have to make the distinction
of before and after for computing its length in time (not in worked time).

Tasks 2 lasts 5 and Task 1 35 days.
Tasks one will take 20 (5+15) full days of resources 2 and 15 for Resource 1
Therefore Tasks 1 length will be 20 days.

Implementing this means a lot of changes in the way resources and tasks are
linked. Just warning to make things clear.

Regards,
Xavier Ordoquy.

_______________________________________________
Planner mailing list
Planner@lists.imendio.com
http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner
From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Wed Jan 7 17:38:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0401.wanadoo.fr (smtp4.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.27]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233AFC02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:38:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-4-140.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.48.125.140]) by mwinf0401.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 9ED845800130 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:42:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:42:55 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:38:24 -0000 On Wed, 2004-01-07 at 17:25, Waldemar Augustyn wrote: > Task 1 should be decomposed into two tasks with one-to-one > relationship to resources. Then, a simple click on the button does > the job. > > If not, the tool still works. It simply pushes tasks 2 behind task 1 > (assuming the algorithm goes by the task priority and then by the > order of tasks within the same priority). If the manager has some > insight into the nature of the joint work on task 1, he could adjust > the chart. > > What's described as difficult requires proper decomposition of task 1, > but that's something the user should do, not the tool. Well it can not always be decomposed. I'm thinking about experts that may have this sort of things to do. Pushing a task before the other would lead to letting the other resource on hold for 5 days which is not really acceptable. On a project with several tasks it can become really hard to move forth and back to notice those things. From cahanpm@operamail.com Wed Jan 7 17:55:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from spf13.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-67.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8E0C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:55:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from 205-158-62-68.outblaze.com (205-158-62-68.outblaze.com [205.158.62.68]) by spf13.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id B559F1801462 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:59:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 94770 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2004 16:59:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.74) by 205-158-62-153.outblaze.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2004 16:59:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 16267 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Jan 2004 16:59:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [213.120.90.59] by ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com with http for cahanpm@operamail.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:59:23 +0000 From: "Steve Evans" To: "Planner Project Manager" Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:59:23 +0000 Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies X-Originating-Ip: 213.120.90.59 X-Originating-Server: ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:55:07 -0000 Xavier Ordoquy wrote: > Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. Me neither! I think any form of automated resource levelling will be extremely complicated, and at best only give a rough schedule that the Project Manager can start from and work with. In practice I have only ever used the resource scheduling in Project Workbench (PMW) from Niku. Even though it's very sophisticated with the features such as front or back loading the effort, it frequently did strange things that would have to be manually corrected. I would favour the toolkit approach as the PM will always have to manually intervene in any automated schedule and anything that would make this easier would be better. Such things as moving tasks, reallocating resources and seeing the totals allocations per resource by period. PMW used a different model and maintained effort and duration separately - it didn't (at the time) have percentage allocation. For instance, imagine you had 2 6-hour tasks both allocated to the same resource. PMW would allocated 6 hours of task 1 and 2 hours of task 2 on day 1 and the remaining 4 hours of task 2 on day 2. Although I prefer this method to percent allocations, I would suppose that it would be a big change for Planner to adopt this model. Regards, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Xavier Ordoquy Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:53:09 +0100 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies > Richard Hult sloffed: > > There are a few subtasks: > > > > 1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually. > > > > 2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and > > planner-relation-arrow.c mostly). > > > > 3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load. > > > > 4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that > > dependencies are handled. > > > > 5. Implement the algorithm (mainly > > planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c). > > > > If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good > > starting points. > > Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. Let me take the example with > two tasks for which of the two resources only one resource can work on > both. It points that a resource commitement in a task can change against > the time. This implies far more than it just sounds. Even if someone sets > the balance between the 2 tasks for the resource. > > Task 1: ==================== (Resource 1, Resource 2) > Task 2: ===== (Resource 1) > ^ (1) > > (1) Resource 1 has finished task 2 on which he was working full time. He > now ca work on task 1 at 100%. Gantt chart will have to make the distinction > of before and after for computing its length in time (not in worked time). > > Tasks 2 lasts 5 and Task 1 35 days. > Tasks one will take 20 (5+15) full days of resources 2 and 15 for Resource 1 > Therefore Tasks 1 length will be 20 days. > > Implementing this means a lot of changes in the way resources and tasks are > linked. Just warning to make things clear. > > Regards, > Xavier Ordoquy. > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner ---------------------------- Cahan Project Management Ltd ---------------------------- -- ___________________________________________________ Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.operamail.com, which allows you to send SMS through your mailbox. Powered by Outblaze From richard@imendio.com Wed Jan 7 18:06:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F5F1C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:06:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C908712BE0 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:08:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> References: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073495328.4429.5262.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:08:48 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:06:19 -0000 ons 2004-01-07 klockan 17.59 skrev Steve Evans: > Xavier Ordoquy wrote: > > Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. > > Me neither! I think any form of automated resource levelling will be extremely complicated, and at best only give a rough schedule that the Project Manager can start from and work with. Well, I was mostly referring to the framework for doing it, rather than a resource leveling algorithm. It would allow for e.g. something Brian's suggestion. We could have the two different kinds of dependencies, that would mostly differ visually, since many people don't like to create "fake" dependencies between tasks that are not really dependent. And a very simple algorithm could just try to very stupidly add such dependencies between tasks that are scheduled at the same time and assigned to the same resource. Maybe that would be too stupid to be useful? Would having just the manual "resource dependencies" be useful? /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From waldemar@nxp.com Wed Jan 7 19:27:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F108C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:27:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AeITE-0004vk-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:31:56 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AeITD-0000o5-9N for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:31:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFC509A.1020406@nxp.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:31:54 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> In-Reply-To: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:27:33 -0000 >PMW used a different model and maintained effort and duration separately - it didn't (at the time) have percentage allocation. For instance, imagine you had 2 6-hour tasks both allocated to the same resource. PMW would allocated 6 hours of task 1 and 2 hours of task 2 on day 1 and the remaining 4 hours of task 2 on day 2. > >Although I prefer this method to percent allocations, I would suppose that it would be a big change for Planner to adopt this model. > > Hmmm. This appears to be the same model. The Planner would do the same thing if the "Resource Units" were set to 100% (BTW, the Planner should label this column as %). It's just that the Planner offers to limit a resource to something less (or more for that matter) than 100% at a time. That percentage figure reflects the Manager's directive to the resource to split his/her time. The planner would not be fiddling with these settings. From gmoffatt@gt.rr.com Wed Jan 7 19:54:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.texas.rr.com [24.93.47.41]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1155C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:54:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.triplanitary (cpe-67-10-117-21.gt.rr.com [67.10.117.21]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i07IwJvV008247 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:58:20 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Moffatt To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:58:38 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> In-Reply-To: <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401071258.38915.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: gmoffatt@gt.rr.com, Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:54:01 -0000 The paradigm for resource leveling is to think of the activity as a box or container and the resources as solid cubes of dimension one unit - for convenience I think of these as res/act from the record names in p3. Manually it is convenient to print our a (large) time grid indicating the time, the activities in groups and the resources as short abbreviations (loading diagram). Programaticly the leveling just pushes everything forward against total float - like coins across the exchequer - using rules the scheduler must determine. Practically, only some resources are critical and when I level I choose only the most critical resources to level by computer. Just as the scheduling needs adjustment, so does the leveling, and having seen the computerized leveling I usually insert 'crew ties' for the critical resources and review using the loading diagram so i do not depend on the 'stupid' automatic process. Modern scheduling theory includes some sophisticated algorhythms (web search 'critical chain scheduling') but from what I can see all the fancy math seems just to choose the leveling rules for you. -- Registered Linux user #312657 From brian@simpleprojectmanagement.com Thu Jan 8 03:19:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB70C02E for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 03:19:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from sdn-ap-032txhousp0046.dialsprint.net ([158.254.224.46] helo=SimpleProjectManagement.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AePpX-0005bb-00; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:23:28 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 20:25:34 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) To: wsxyz6294@yahoo.com From: Brian Christensen In-Reply-To: <20040106110003.4A5B9C047@master.imendio.com> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: planner@lists.imendio.com Subject: [Planner] Re: Planner Digest, Vol 3, Issue 5 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:19:07 -0000 >> Sheldon, >> >>> I'm trying out Planner for the first time today. It seems to work >>> very >>> well so far, but I have a >>> question. Is there any way for Planner 0.11 to implement dependencies >>> between tasks based on >>> (work) resource availability, or do I just have to manually create >>> task dependencies? >>> >>> Just in case I'm not sufficiently clear, I have a situation where one >>> "startup" task is a >>> predecessor of about 8 different tasks that are logically parallel. >>> However, all of the tasks are >>> assigned the same resource at 100% and Planner seems to be perfectly >>> happy scheduling all of the >>> tasks simultaneously, although the resource can't actually work at >>> 800% to do all of them in >>> parallel. >> >> This question goes back to the definition of what a dependency is. >> Most >> of the books say that a task A is dependent on a task B if task B >> can't >> start until task A is finished. However, even though the tasks are >> logically parallel, if the same person is going to do both tasks, that >> person will almost always have a preference in the order they are >> done. >> It is convenient to treat the tasks "as if" they were dependent and to >> define dependencies between them. >> >> It is better to define a "treat them as if" dependency than to let the >> tool define a random order for the tasks. This shows up most clearly >> when you are taking status from the team. Say your team member has >> been >> assigned tasks A, B, and C. that are logically parallel and so can be >> done in any order. Let's assume that the tasks will each take a week >> to complete. You let the computer assign an arbitrary order to the >> tasks and it comes up with C then B then A. What does your status look >> like if the person decides to complete task A first? You would have to >> report that task C is late and task A is early. You would also have to >> explain to your management and to your customer why it is not a >> problem >> to have a late task. Why create problems for yourself that can be >> avoided? > ... some snippage... > > I don't really see how this relates to my question, which was about > resource overcommitment. You asked whether there is a way in planner to define dependencies based on resource availability. The answer is "no". Planner only defines one kind of dependency that has to be used for all kinds of situations. The only controls you can set are whether a task should start on a specific date or after all of its prerequisites are complete. I was also trying to make the point that even if Planner did have an algorithm for automatically adjusting tasks based on resources you might be better off not using it. Microsoft Project has an option for doing this, but most project managers tell me that it is difficult for them to predict the kinds of changes the algorithm will make and difficult to get it to do what they really wanted it to do. The computer just didn't understand the situation as well as they did. They ended up backing out the changes (sometimes starting over) and then making resource adjustments by hand. The suggestion that Waldemar Augustyn made is the most sensible approach I have heard. Provide a tool kit of simple operations that the manager can use to adjust the schedule. Hopefully that's what Planner will provide in the future. > Perhaps most readers of this list are thinking > about software development projects and expect to a resource to be > capable of being 100% committed to multiple tasks at once. I was > thinking > of other situations where resources can not be overcommitted. For > example, > if the resource is a piece of equipment. Can it be in my office 100% of > time and in your office 100% of the time? You and I might have > logically > parallel tasks, but if both of our tasks require the equipment > resource, > they cannot procede in parallel (with 100% resource allocation), no > matter > what our manager might wish. > I accept that resource overcommitment should be allowed by the program, > but I would like to be able to make resources non-overcommitable. If I > have a non-overcommitable resource assigned to several logically > parallel > tasks, then the program might give me a choice: A) order the tasks > prefer- > entially, or B) allow the tasks to procede in parallel by dividing > (equally > or not) the resource commitment among the tasks, or C) some > combination of > A and B. My hope is that the program will make it easy to see an potential over commitment (perhaps color coding the tasks -- like many word processors have the option of underling possible misspelled words), but I hope that it doesn't start prompting me how to fix them. ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.SimpleProjectManagement.com (What everyone in your organization needs to know about project management.) From twanger@bluetwanger.de Tue Jan 13 01:50:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from web11.manitu.net (web11.manitu.net [217.11.48.111]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED38C048 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:50:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.1] (dsl-082-082-089-131.arcor-ip.net [82.82.89.131]) (authenticated) by web11.manitu.net (8.10.2-SOL3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i0D0tH813754; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:55:17 +0100 From: Markus Bertheau To: usenet In-Reply-To: <200401122340.44896.usenet@franksonlineportal.de> References: <200401122340.44896.usenet@franksonlineportal.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <1073955322.5077.72.camel@yarrow.bertheau.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:55:23 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:27:03 +0100 Cc: planner@lists.imendio.com, gnome-i18n@gnome.org, Kurt Maute Subject: [Planner] Re: Translation from Mr. Project into German language X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:50:42 -0000 =D0=92 =D0=9F=D0=BD=D0=B4, 12.01.2004, =D0=B2 23:40, usenet =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1= =88=D0=B5=D1=82: > Hi, >=20 > I am intrested to translate the manual of Mr. Project into German languag= e.=20 > Where I should download this and which file I should download. The software changed its name to Planner. http://planner.imendio.org/ You can download it along with the manual there: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/planner/0.11/planner-0.11.tar.bz2 The manual itself is planner-0.11/docs/user-guide/C/planner.xml But let someone else guide you on how do make sure your work integrates well with Planner. I've CCed the maintainer of the user-guide, Kurt Maute as well as the Planner mailing list. --=20 Markus Bertheau From waldemar@nxp.com Wed Jan 14 02:07:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 134BFC048 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:07:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AgZaG-0004IG-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:12:36 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AgZaF-0005ul-GT for planner@lists.imendio.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:12:35 -0500 Message-ID: <40049782.4060004@nxp.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:12:34 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager References: <200401122340.44896.usenet@franksonlineportal.de> <1073955322.5077.72.camel@yarrow.bertheau.de> In-Reply-To: <1073955322.5077.72.camel@yarrow.bertheau.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Planner] Cost calculations X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:07:49 -0000 I have just noticed, Planner's cost calculation is not quite right. It appears, it misinterprets the resource "units" value. I thought the "units" figure is really the percentage of time a resource is expected (allowed) to work on a task. The default is 100, which I think should be labeled with a %. Here is what happens: A Task takes 3 days to finish. There is one resource allocated to it at 50% time and 45 cost. Planner properly calculates the task to take six days (because of 50% resource), but the cost is calculated at 540. I would think, it should be 3*8*45= 1080 (three days * 8 hours * 45 $/hour). Or, perhaps, 6*4*45=1080 (six days * 4 hours * 45 $/h). Same thing with another task. It takes 5 days to finish, the allocated resource works 5% of time at cost of 30. Planner properly calculates the task to take 100 days to finish, but the cost is calculated at 60. I would think, it should be 5*8*30=1200. Or, 100*(8/20)*30=1200. I am using version 0.11. From ramirez@johalla.de Fri Jan 16 10:37:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from maus.johalla.de (evision30.do.revmap.vianetworks.de [194.77.215.62]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 062BCC047 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:37:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (begall@[10.3.4.13]) (authenticated bits=0) by maus.johalla.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i0G9g56D000491 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:42:10 +0100 Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Christoph Begall To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Message-Id: <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:37:05 -0000 X-Original-Date: 16 Jan 2004 10:41:34 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:37:05 -0000 Hi, I just checked: It would be debian fault if there would be not the original source distribution on there site, but even in the tarball from http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/planner/0.11/planner-0.11.tar.gz I could not find the docs/sql directory. Upto now it seems to be only in CVS. Am Die, 2004-01-06 um 18.05 schrieb M=E1rio Filipe: > Hi >=20 > On Ter, 2004-01-06 at 16:45, Richard Hult wrote: > =20 > > It's distributed with the source code. In a coming release we should > > install it as well, and more importantly, add database setup code to th= e > > GUI so you don't need to do that manually.=20 >=20 > I didn't get it in my source (wich I got from Debian, instead of the > official source). >=20 > =20 > > Attaching the schema for now, >=20 > Thanks > --=20 > Mario Filipe=20 > mjnf@uevora.pt > http://neptuno.sc.uevora.pt/~mjnf=20 > ---- >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner --=20 Christoph Begall, happy do be here From richard@imendio.com Fri Jan 16 10:40:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01684C050 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:40:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1323B12C12 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:42:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1074246202.8306.1522.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:43:23 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:40:40 -0000 fre 2004-01-16 klockan 10.41 skrev Christoph Begall: > Hi, > > I just checked: > It would be debian fault if there would be not the original source > distribution on there site, but even in the tarball from > http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/planner/0.11/planner-0.11.tar.gz > I could not find the docs/sql directory. > > Upto now it seems to be only in CVS. Sorry, what I mean to say was that it will be distributed. It was added to the dist a while ago in CVS but not in a release yet. /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From ramirez@johalla.de Sat Jan 17 21:30:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from maus.johalla.de (evision30.do.revmap.vianetworks.de [194.77.215.62]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09835C04F for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:30:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from knuth (p50903BC3.dip.t-dialin.net [80.144.59.195]) (authenticated bits=0) by maus.johalla.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i0HKZZ6E025532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:35:37 +0100 Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Christoph Begall To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1074246202.8306.1522.camel@carrot> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> <1074246202.8306.1522.camel@carrot> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1074372318.866.6.camel@knuth> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:45:18 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:30:30 -0000 Would it be difficult to add the information to the planner website? And where the CVS-repository can be found? Am Fr, den 16.01.2004 schrieb Richard Hult um 10:43: > fre 2004-01-16 klockan 10.41 skrev Christoph Begall: > > Hi, > > > > I just checked: > > It would be debian fault if there would be not the original source > > distribution on there site, but even in the tarball from > > http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/planner/0.11/planner-0.11.tar.gz > > I could not find the docs/sql directory. > > > > Upto now it seems to be only in CVS. > > Sorry, what I mean to say was that it will be distributed. It was added > to the dist a while ago in CVS but not in a release yet. > > /Richard -- Christoph Begall From richard@imendio.com Sat Jan 17 21:33:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 844C6C04F for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:33:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A1812C0A for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:35:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1074372318.866.6.camel@knuth> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> <1074246202.8306.1522.camel@carrot> <1074372318.866.6.camel@knuth> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1074371895.8306.3636.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:38:15 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:33:10 -0000 lör 2004-01-17 klockan 21.45 skrev Christoph Begall: > Would it be difficult to add the information to the planner website? > And where the CVS-repository can be found? Not at all. I've been meaning to do that for a while, I'll do it right away. Thanks for reminding me :) /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From ramirez@johalla.de Mon Jan 19 00:01:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from maus.johalla.de (evision30.do.revmap.vianetworks.de [194.77.215.62]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC55C04F for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:01:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from knuth (p5090241E.dip.t-dialin.net [80.144.36.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by maus.johalla.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i0IN666E011484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:06:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Christoph Begall To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1074467756.897.9.camel@knuth> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:15:56 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:01:03 -0000 What about having the "leveling tool" generate an order (maybe taking some points into account like priority or importance of a task or even the size of tasks (I would like that because big tasks normally show me that there is a risk or I have not elaborated a thing enough)) This order should be viewable only on request (like a grid in the background of dia). This would be an easy way of making resource overuse visible: In the normal diagram the project could be done in much shorter time than in the automatic alignment, because the tool would "see" that some resource makes it impossible to do things in parallel. Am Mi, den 07.01.2004 schrieb Xavier Ordoquy um 17:42: > On Wed, 2004-01-07 at 17:25, Waldemar Augustyn wrote: > > Task 1 should be decomposed into two tasks with one-to-one > > relationship to resources. Then, a simple click on the button does > > the job. > > > > If not, the tool still works. It simply pushes tasks 2 behind task 1 > > (assuming the algorithm goes by the task priority and then by the > > order of tasks within the same priority). If the manager has some > > insight into the nature of the joint work on task 1, he could adjust > > the chart. > > > > What's described as difficult requires proper decomposition of task 1, > > but that's something the user should do, not the tool. > > Well it can not always be decomposed. I'm thinking about experts that > may have this sort of things to do. > > Pushing a task before the other would lead to letting the other resource > on hold for 5 days which is not really acceptable. > On a project with several tasks it can become really hard to move forth > and back to notice those things. > > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner -- Christoph Begall From lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net Fri Jan 23 10:41:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CE1C047 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:41:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from [81.129.4.88] (helo=openmutual.net) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AjxuS-000741-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:47:28 +0000 Message-ID: <4010EDB0.6090903@openmutual.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:47:28 +0000 From: "lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-gb MIME-Version: 1.0 To: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.7.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:41:55 -0000 I've used Microsoft Project a lot including using it in a CMM Level 2 environment. Before you shoot me down for mentioning any Microsoft product, MS project is a good general purpose project planning tool. Not the best of breed with its resource levelling but still very good. Pick up a cheap copy of MS Project 98 to get an idea of the features; its bloated and Project 2000/2003 goes even further but I thought I'll try Planner (downloaded from web and did a ./configure, make, make install which was fine on Mandrake 9.2 and just had to add a few library packages), and see how usable it is for a small project; (My actual House cleanup prior to sale right now - so far 90 tasks with 4 resources and 10 summary, 5 milestones). I thought I'd give you my first impressions whilst I read your roadmap for 1.0 as it helps you confirm thoughts on whats going into 1.0 1) Defining links through using the click-drag is handy but I'm also very used to selecting (ctrl-click) two tasks and then clicking a "Link" button. You have the Unlink button but not Link. The main issue is click-dragging over many pages or dates: if you zoom out to see the whole project then the task bar isn't big enough in the gantt chart to click this (it just re-sizes the task). 2) Adding resources to tasks takes a long time. If a whole pile of tasks could by selected (ctrl-click) and then right-mouse or a suitable menu option had "Set Resource..." This will also be very important with task levelling. 3) MPX file format import AND export. Microsoft Project 98 was the last MS project to have this as an export. See http://www.microsoft.com/office/project/prk/2000/Five/67ct_2.htm Many other apps rely on this MPX format and may not all have migrated to MPP or MPD. May be nice to help people interoperate with Planner easily. MPX is not an XML but its a fairly nice easy to read ASCII and should be easy to pre-process into the Planner/MrProject schema. The MPXJ project (LGPL) has a lot more of this, though it is Java. See, http://www.tapsterrock.com/mpxj/ 4) Unable to easily view resource usage by day. Even when you have a levelling capability, when you run this in MS Project it could sometimes completely screw up your project shoving tasks out by years as it tried to resolve resource use and constraints. Thus many people manually level projects. You use a view that has the Resources on the left and Dates on the top with usage (0->100 for OK and then >100 for not OK e.g. font in RED) in the intersect. Thus if levelling isn't trusted or not the expected algorithm then viewing what resources get used by date is a manual compromise. 5) Resource Initials - these are a handy extra field because names can clutter up gantt charts (especially when a couple of people are doing one task). If a user has initials defined then use this else use the resource name is the basic algorithm which I think MS Project uses. 6) Task completion: Incrementing in 1% at a time is too low !. The tumbler needs to increment in +/- 10% at a time but the field could be manually set to an exact percentage. MOst people say a task is say 50% or nearly (i.e. 90% complete). A joke: 90% of a project takes 90% of the time. The remaining 10% takes the other half. Either way, no one refers to 51% complete unless for fun. 7) The program name of 'Planner' seems dangerously generic and I feel that it would end up being contested somewhere for its name. Maybe something like 'Gantto' and then pun its name by using a cat (gatto in Italian) with a gantt chart for stripes as a logo but IANAA (I Am Not An Artist). Plus it has a 'g' in the name for GNOME and gantto.com/net/org currently free I think (probably find its a swear word in some language !) ps: also the file name is was *.mrproject but can we use 3 char thus change to say *.gpo as I think thats free. 8) and finally - though by asking this question I'm probably showing my ignorance - how do I start to add code to Planner ? I'm starting back into programming work (and just restarted my degree in CS) so I can CVS the whole lot and can easily browse the source but has anyone tried using Anjuta and Glade with this project ? or is it all hand-coded C and I'm just spoiled from working with the likes of Eclipse and VC ? 9) Other things: Baselines: These are essential for any CMM metrics to show how actuals deviate from estimates. I use these a lot. Pert charts: never used them much but others do a lot. Sub projects: yes I do like these for big stuff but not when there was milestone constraints from within one sub-project and another. I do find it handy when doing e.g. software deployments that are global and thus sub-project each geographic region so you can have a global overview of progress by region. I'm thinking task that is a file/hyperlink to another Planner file and to parse that file and pick out ANY other task. I suspect that Planner could do this quite well given the nice XML structure to its own files. Shared resources (and shared calendars across projects: Tried this when we were doing CMM assessment and found it useful but back then using MS Project 98 and so it wasn't very friendly. Collaboration: This would be real handy. If a structured email message could be sent and replied to and have the Planner pick out the answers in the mails and update itself. Really what things like listservers do with the registration and reply logic. Split tasks: handy for when you just want to make a task drag on in background as a low priority. Thus when you show the gantt to someone you can still say you're doing it but other tasks take priority. and can only spend a little time now and then on it ;) Rgds. Lincoln From richard@imendio.com Fri Jan 23 11:07:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E8DC047 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:07:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4091612BE8 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:09:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <4010EDB0.6090903@openmutual.net> References: <4010EDB0.6090903@openmutual.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1074852756.7103.20.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:12:36 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:07:24 -0000 fre 2004-01-23 klockan 10.47 skrev lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net: Hi, > 1) Defining links through using the click-drag is handy > but I'm also very used to selecting (ctrl-click) two tasks > and then clicking a "Link" button. You have the Unlink > button but not Link. The main issue is click-dragging > over many pages or dates: if you zoom out to see the whole > project then the task bar isn't big enough in the gantt > chart to click this (it just re-sizes the task). > > 2) Adding resources to tasks takes a long time. If a whole pile > of tasks could by selected (ctrl-click) and then right-mouse > or a suitable menu option had "Set Resource..." This will > also be very important with task levelling. Could you please file these as bug reports/feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=planner (a separate bug for each issue) Both these should be pretty easy to implement, by the way. > 3) MPX file format import AND export. Microsoft Project 98 > was the last MS project to have this as an export. See > http://www.microsoft.com/office/project/prk/2000/Five/67ct_2.htm > > Many other apps rely on this MPX format and may not all have > migrated to MPP or MPD. May be nice to help people interoperate > with Planner easily. MPX is not an XML but its a fairly nice > easy to read ASCII and should be easy to pre-process into the > Planner/MrProject schema. The MPXJ project (LGPL) has a lot > more of this, though it is Java. See, http://www.tapsterrock.com/mpxj/ This would be a perfect project for someone to help out with. It would be pretty easy since it's a pretty much standalone project. Any takers? I can help you get started. > 4) Unable to easily view resource usage by day. Even when > you have a levelling capability, when you run this in > MS Project it could sometimes completely screw up your > project shoving tasks out by years as it tried to resolve > resource use and constraints. Thus many people manually > level projects. You use a view that has the Resources on the > left and Dates on the top with usage (0->100 for OK > and then >100 for not OK e.g. font in RED) in the intersect. > Thus if levelling isn't trusted or not the expected > algorithm then viewing what resources get used by date is > a manual compromise. Xavier, the resource usage view you're working on can show this, right? > 5) Resource Initials - these are a handy extra field because > names can clutter up gantt charts (especially when a couple of > people are doing one task). If a user has initials defined then > use this else use the resource name is the basic algorithm > which I think MS Project uses. > > 6) Task completion: Incrementing in 1% at a time is too low !. > The tumbler needs to increment in +/- 10% at a time but > the field could be manually set to an exact percentage. MOst > people say a task is say 50% or nearly (i.e. 90% complete). > A joke: > 90% of a project takes 90% of the time. The remaining 10% takes > the other half. > Either way, no one refers to 51% complete unless for fun. Both good points, please file bugs. > 7) The program name of 'Planner' seems dangerously generic > and I feel that it would end up being contested somewhere for > its name. Maybe something like 'Gantto' and then pun its name > by using a cat (gatto in Italian) with a gantt chart for > stripes as a logo but IANAA (I Am Not An Artist). Plus it has > a 'g' in the name for GNOME and gantto.com/net/org currently > free I think (probably find its a swear word in some language !) > ps: also the file name is was *.mrproject but can we > use 3 char thus change to say *.gpo as I think thats free. We can always tack something on before or after Planner if necessary. There's a bug report about the file extension, although personally I would prefer .planner. > 8) and finally - though by asking this question I'm probably > showing my ignorance - how do I start to add code to Planner ? > I'm starting back into programming work (and just restarted > my degree in CS) so I can CVS the whole lot and can easily > browse the source but has anyone tried using Anjuta and Glade > with this project ? or is it all hand-coded C and I'm just > spoiled from working with the likes of Eclipse and VC ? We use glade for all UI parts. I personally use emacs but I'm sure you can use any editor to write the code. > 9) Other things: > Baselines: These are essential for any CMM metrics to > show how actuals deviate from estimates. I use > these a lot. > Pert charts: never used them much but others do a lot. > Sub projects: yes I do like these for big stuff but not > when there was milestone constraints from within > one sub-project and another. I do find it handy > when doing e.g. software deployments that are > global and thus sub-project each geographic region > so you can have a global overview of progress > by region. I'm thinking task that is a file/hyperlink > to another Planner file and to parse that file > and pick out ANY other task. I suspect that Planner > could do this quite well given the nice XML structure > to its own files. > Shared resources (and shared calendars across projects: > Tried this when we were doing CMM assessment and > found it useful but back then using MS Project 98 > and so it wasn't very friendly. > Collaboration: This would be real handy. If a structured > email message could be sent and replied to and have > the Planner pick out the answers in the mails and > update itself. Really what things like listservers > do with the registration and reply logic. > Split tasks: handy for when you just want to make a task > drag on in background as a low priority. Thus > when you show the gantt to someone you can still > say you're doing it but other tasks take priority. > and can only spend a little time now and then on it ;) Good stuff but after 1.0, in my opinion. We need to get a stable useful simple application out soon :) /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From eisen@builtonlinux.com Fri Jan 23 11:16:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from dunhackin.org (66-98-222-120.acornhosting.net [66.98.222.120]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2C1C04F for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:16:57 +0100 (CET) Received: by dunhackin.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 3704E94312; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:22:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dunhackin.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32CFC4445A1 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:22:29 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:22:28 -0600 (CST) From: Hal Eisen X-X-Sender: eisen@dunhackin.org To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) In-Reply-To: <1074852756.7103.20.camel@carrot> Message-ID: X-Operating-System: Linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:56:20 +0100 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:16:58 -0000 > > 3) MPX file format import AND export. Microsoft Project 98 > > was the last MS project to have this as an export. See > > http://www.microsoft.com/office/project/prk/2000/Five/67ct_2.htm > > > > Many other apps rely on this MPX format and may not all have > > migrated to MPP or MPD. May be nice to help people interoperate > > with Planner easily. MPX is not an XML but its a fairly nice > > easy to read ASCII and should be easy to pre-process into the > > Planner/MrProject schema. The MPXJ project (LGPL) has a lot > > more of this, though it is Java. See, http://www.tapsterrock.com/mpxj/ > > This would be a perfect project for someone to help out with. It would > be pretty easy since it's a pretty much standalone project. Any takers? > I can help you get started. I'll take this one. Let's talk about it off-line. Hal -- Stop wasting money with Microsoft Windows! Ask me how... http://www.builtonlinux.com - Built On Linux (IT Consulting) From waldemar@nxp.com Fri Jan 23 16:35:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FDF4C04F for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:35:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Ak25f-0002A3-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:15:19 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ak25e-0001aL-2o for planner@lists.imendio.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:15:18 -0500 Message-ID: <40112C74.30806@nxp.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:15:16 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:35:52 -0000

Hal Eisen wrote: 
  
3) MPX file format import AND export. Microsoft Project 98
    was the last MS project to have this as an export. See
http://www.microsoft.com/office/project/prk/2000/Five/67ct_2.htm

   Many other apps rely on this MPX format and may not all have
   migrated to MPP or MPD. May be nice to help people interoperate
   with Planner easily. MPX is not an XML but its a fairly nice
   easy to read ASCII and should be easy to pre-process into the
   Planner/MrProject schema. The MPXJ project (LGPL) has a lot
   more of this, though it is Java. See, http://www.tapsterrock.com/mpxj/
      
This would be a perfect project for someone to help out with. It would
be pretty easy since it's a pretty much standalone project. Any takers?
It would be best if Planner could filter these types in the "open" dialog box and did the necessary conversion when selected. Similarly, the "save as" dialog should offer these types and the implied conversions when selected.  A simple "save" should use the format selected during "open".
I can help you get started.
    

I'll take this one.  Let's talk about it off-line.

Hal

--
Stop wasting money with Microsoft Windows!  Ask me how...
http://www.builtonlinux.com - Built On Linux (IT Consulting)

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From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Fri Jan 23 17:37:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0801.wanadoo.fr (smtp8.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.23]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D540CC051 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:37:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-2-196.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.124.196]) by mwinf0801.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id F03301800175 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1074852756.7103.20.camel@carrot> References: <4010EDB0.6090903@openmutual.net> <1074852756.7103.20.camel@carrot> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1074876156.492.9.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:42:37 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:37:03 -0000 Once upon the time Richard Hult sloff: > > 4) Unable to easily view resource usage by day. Even when > > you have a levelling capability, when you run this in > > MS Project it could sometimes completely screw up your > > project shoving tasks out by years as it tried to resolve > > resource use and constraints. Thus many people manually > > level projects. You use a view that has the Resources on the > > left and Dates on the top with usage (0->100 for OK > > and then >100 for not OK e.g. font in RED) in the intersect. > > Thus if levelling isn't trusted or not the expected > > algorithm then viewing what resources get used by date is > > a manual compromise. > > Xavier, the resource usage view you're working on can show this, right? This is the idea. I think I fixed some bugs about it and it may worth start testing it. Shall I change the --enable-ttable to --disable-resource-usage and include it by default in the built ? I'll try to look at the other points. Some seems to take little time to get really nice result. Especially the task link and resource assignment. Xavier Ordoquy. From gmoffatt@gt.rr.com Fri Jan 23 18:06:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.texas.rr.com [24.93.47.41]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DB26C051 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:06:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.triplanitary (cpe-67-10-117-21.gt.rr.com [67.10.117.21]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0NHC7vV000324 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:12:10 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Moffatt To: Planner Project Manager Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:13:28 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401231113.28391.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> Subject: [Planner] OPENSCHED project scheduling software X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: gmoffatt@gt.rr.com, Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:06:37 -0000 I also dont want to get shot for bringing up potetially controversial subjects but this looks interesting and these folks have some serious clientel - http://mtechIT.com/download/sched/ -wouldnt it be nice if they had a gui front end and you had their corporate support. Just a thought. -- Registered Linux user #312657 From rhwood@mac.com Fri Jan 23 18:54:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73D8C051 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:54:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (h-66-134-129-30.mclnva23.dynamic.covad.net[66.134.129.30]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2004012317594011200ote2le> (Authid: rhwood); Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:59:41 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <200401231113.28391.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> References: <200401231113.28391.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Randall Wood Subject: Re: [Planner] OPENSCHED project scheduling software Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:59:29 -0500 To: Planner Project Manager X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:54:10 -0000 It seems that mTech stopped working on OpenSched in late 1999, and that the project moved to sourceforge.net in 2000. (http://opensched.sourceforge.net) The project is active, but the maintainers recommend that users looking for a GUI use MrProject instead. Thought you might want to know. On Jan 23, 2004, at 12:13 PM, Gary Moffatt wrote: > I also dont want to get shot for bringing up potetially controversial > subjects > but this looks interesting and these folks have some serious clientel - > http://mtechIT.com/download/sched/ -wouldnt it be nice if they had a > gui > front end and you had their corporate support. Just a thought. > -- > Registered Linux user #312657 > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner > -- Randall Wood rhwood@mac.com "The rules are simple: The ball is round. The game lasts 90 minutes. All the rest is just philosophy." From lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net Sat Jan 24 14:00:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA98C052 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:00:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from [81.129.4.88] (helo=openmutual.net) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AkNTw-0004US-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:05:49 +0000 Message-ID: <40126DAC.30005@openmutual.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:05:48 +0000 From: "lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-gb MIME-Version: 1.0 To: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.7.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Planner] Reporting within Planner : whats the story with MrProjext ? X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:00:20 -0000 I miss the reporting that MS Project has but I notice that MrProjext ( http://mrprojext.sourceforge.net/ ) has a lot of nice reporting stuff (albeit command line driven. Once you get into big projects you need a nice and easy way of reporting on such things like my personal favourite: Should have started tasks !, as well as Should have finished tasks ;( Sounds like the MrProjext could easily be GUI'd from within Planner and then the data and parameters passed (hidden from the user) to MrProjext. The temporary files or result from MrProjext is then pretty-printed back to the user for display and printing. The MrProjext also looks like it could do the dirty work for exporting to Palm or iCal formats. This would be real nice if my Palm pilot could get loaded with Todo items as well as the Calendar loaded with milestones. Rgds. Lincoln. From richard@imendio.com Sat Jan 24 14:39:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35CA9C052 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:39:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A18112C0A for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:41:02 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Reporting within Planner : whats the story with MrProjext ? From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <40126DAC.30005@openmutual.net> References: <40126DAC.30005@openmutual.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1074951862.7103.41.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:44:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:39:07 -0000 lör 2004-01-24 klockan 14.05 skrev lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net: > I miss the reporting that MS Project has but I notice > that MrProjext ( http://mrprojext.sourceforge.net/ ) > has a lot of nice reporting stuff (albeit command > line driven. It would be great if we could achieve the same result but in a more maintainable way, i.e. through a report system in planner. It could perhaps be done through xsl. I'm not too happy with using perl for that purpose. It would also be nice to have a more generic framework for exporting data to other formats. The current HTML output uses xslt to transform the xml to html, and that module could be made more generic, by allowing it to use different stylesheets. /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From Axel.Missbach@t-online.de Sat Jan 24 09:33:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com (mailout04.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.18]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A045C051 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:33:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from fwd01.aul.t-online.de by mailout04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1AkJIY-0002Dx-01; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:37:46 +0100 Received: from t-online.de (VyFeouZSYelftZ9ubEZ3Sj9RAWFQTLNOKK2U8TFP-gB3IxhoZioXoQ@[193.159.70.204]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 1AkJIP-20gIsq0; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:37:37 +0100 Message-ID: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:37:24 +0100 From: Axel.Missbach@t-online.de (Axel Missbach) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: de, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: planner@lists.imendio.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Seen: false X-ID: VyFeouZSYelftZ9ubEZ3Sj9RAWFQTLNOKK2U8TFP-gB3IxhoZioXoQ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:07:27 +0100 Subject: [Planner] glib-2.0.pc X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:33:15 -0000 i'd like to try planner but running "./configure" i get the message: checking for glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 ... Package glib-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. Perhaps you should add the directory containing `glib-2.0.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable No package 'glib-2.0' found configure: error: Library requirements ( glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 ) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them. -My problem is, that there is a selfwriten (perhaps wrong) glib-2.0.pc file in the pkg-config-path and/or the glib-library has no path like /usr/lib/glib2 (running on suse8.2). From micke@imendio.com Sat Jan 24 16:10:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53705C052 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:10:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from chili.home.hallendal.net (h41n2c1o1035.bredband.skanova.com [81.227.17.41]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BCEF12C0A for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:12:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] glib-2.0.pc From: Mikael Hallendal To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> References: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Organization: Imendio HB Message-Id: <1074957364.5390.10.camel@chili.home.hallendal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:16:05 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:10:23 -0000 lör 2004-01-24 klockan 09.37 skrev Axel Missbach: > i'd like to try planner but running "./configure" i get the message: > > checking for > glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 > gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 > gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 > libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 > gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 > ... Package glib-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. > Perhaps you should add the directory containing `glib-2.0.pc' > to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable > No package 'glib-2.0' found > > configure: error: Library requirements ( > glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 > gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 > gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 > libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 > gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 > ) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable > if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them. > > > -My problem is, that there is a selfwriten (perhaps wrong) glib-2.0.pc > file in the pkg-config-path and/or the glib-library has no path like > /usr/lib/glib2 (running on suse8.2). I'm not understanding fully your problem. Have you written your own glib-2.0.pc file, and if so, why? Install the -devel packages of all of the above and they should contain the .pc files. Regards, Mikael Hallendal -- Mikael Hallendal micke@imendio.com Imendio HB http://www.imendio.com Phone: +46 (0)709 718 918 From rainer.Lay@informatik.uni-erlangen.de Sat Jan 24 16:17:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from faui61.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui61.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.36.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962CDC052 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:17:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui67 [131.188.36.67]) by faui61.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (8.9.1a/8.1.5-FAU) with ESMTP id QAA15425; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:23:22 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <40128DE9.90000@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:23:21 +0100 From: Rainer Lay User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040112 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] glib-2.0.pc References: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> In-Reply-To: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Lay@informatik.uni-erlangen.de, Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:17:44 -0000 Hi Axel, für SuSE 9.0 gibts hier http://packman.links2linux.org/?action=362 ein rpm für planner. Gruß Rainer Axel Missbach wrote: > i'd like to try planner but running "./configure" i get the message: > > checking for > glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 > gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 > gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 > libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 > gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 > ... Package glib-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. > Perhaps you should add the directory containing `glib-2.0.pc' > to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable > No package 'glib-2.0' found > > configure: error: Library requirements ( > glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 > gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 > gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 > libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 > gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 > ) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable > if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them. > > > -My problem is, that there is a selfwriten (perhaps wrong) glib-2.0.pc > file in the pkg-config-path and/or the glib-library has no path like > /usr/lib/glib2 (running on suse8.2). > > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner From jos@xos037.xos.nl Sun Jan 25 22:57:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from simba.xos.nl (simba.xos.nl [212.26.207.226]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF0EC047 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:57:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from xos037.xos.nl (xos037.xos.nl [212.26.207.37]) by simba.xos.nl (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13666 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:02:56 +0100 Received: from xos037.xos.nl (jos@localhost) by xos037.xos.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id i0PM35830066 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:03:05 +0100 Message-Id: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> To: planner@lists.imendio.com Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:03:05 +0100 From: Jos Vos Subject: [Planner] Opensched and resource scheduling X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:57:22 -0000 Hi, I just heart about the revival of MrProject as Planner. I also saw in the archives that someone mentioned Opensched a few days ago. In relation to this: my biggest problem with MrProject was that it didn't seem to do resource scheduling, so people easily worked on three tasks in parallel for 100% of their time. Has this been improved in the meantime? Is it planned? I never understood how people could use a planning tool that couldn't do at least that, which caused my disappointement for MrProject, although I tried it a few times (the last time with 0.9.1, IIRC) and I still hope one day I'll be able to use it. Cheers, -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Mon Jan 26 00:16:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0201.wanadoo.fr (smtp2.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.29]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5EE0C047 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:16:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-4-68.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.48.125.68]) by mwinf0201.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 34A6130003B8 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:22:21 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Opensched and resource scheduling From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> References: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:22:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:16:37 -0000 On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 23:03, Jos Vos wrote: > Hi, Hi > In relation to this: my biggest problem with MrProject was that > it didn't seem to do resource scheduling, so people easily worked > on three tasks in parallel for 100% of their time. This point has also been discussed on the mailing list ([Planner] Resource dependencies). As far as I remember it ended up in the fact that resources can be used above 100% and that resource usage shall not be compted by the application because it may lead to an infinite number of possibilities. However I almost finished correcting the majors bugs on the resources usage (the former timetable) which will offer you to view the resource load against the time and enable you to move task to reduce load. On another hand I *may* start working on a prototype to compute resource plan and add load constraints. > Has this been improved in the meantime? Is it planned? I never > understood how people could use a planning tool that couldn't do > at least that, which caused my disappointement for MrProject, Again, lemme take the example I've used before. I got 2 resources (R1 and R2) and two tasks (T1 and T2). T1 is 35 worked days long and T2 only 5. R2 can work on both but R1 can only work on T1. Resources may not be used more than 100%. So, how do you expect the application to solve that ? You can choose 1] R2 work full time on T2 and then switch on T1. This will make T2 take 5 days and T1 being 20 days (5 (R1) + 2*15 (R1+R2)). 2] R2 work half time on T1 and T2. This will make T2 last 10 (5/0.5) days and T1 20 days ( 10 (R1) + 5 (R2) + 2*10 (R1+R2) ) You can vary that as much as you want. You can't either set the percentage of work on a task before the computing. If you consider my previous example in the middle of a project, any task glitch will false the all planning and it may finish in having a resource used at 50% because you've set it this way. Consider you have this: days: 0----10----20----30 T0: ====== (R1) T0': ====== (R2) T1: ------======= (R1,R2) (depends on T0) T2: ------ (R2,50%) (depends on T0') Now imagine you just found that there's no need of TO' because it's something the customer doesn't want to any longer. You'll now have: days: 0----10----20----30 T0: ====== (R1) T1: ------======= (R1,R2) (depends on T0) T2: ------ (R2,50%) Now if you consider someone should either be allocated 100% to a task you're wrong with experts that have various tasks that doesn't take them full time (like those that get halftime with a crew and halftime with another within a project). Sharing time as (100/number of tasks) is also wrong because it may expand the critical path (examples are left as exercices ;) Therefore it was decided that planner will not manage resource by itself (at least in the near future) but will try to provide an accurate view to plan the resource load. (Do you agree on this point richard and mickael ?) The resource usage should be included in the next release (0.12) and will help gather opinion on it to make it better then. Regards, Xavier Ordoquy. From lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net Mon Jan 26 01:57:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C746C047 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:57:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from [81.129.4.88] (helo=openmutual.net) by protactinium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1Akv9u-0002Ax-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:03:23 +0000 Message-ID: <4014675A.7050709@openmutual.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:03:22 +0000 From: "lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-gb MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Opensched and resource scheduling References: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> In-Reply-To: <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.7.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:57:38 -0000 Xavier , yup I'd agree that in the initial instance if you can at least show the allocation and allow us to easily allocate resources to tasks then thats the first big step. The actual scheduling is a complicated combinatorial/constraint optimisation satisfaction problem as it'll grow to meet peoples expectations of what a project scheduler should do. The trouble with hard coding in C/C++ is that when Planner 1.X needs its scheduler upgraded to handle more wishes then it gets harder and harder to handle the new constraints. I'm thinking that this would need to be looked at from the point of view of what commercial schedulers like ILOG or Koalog, or GPL/LGPL solutions of the likes of Cheddar ( http://beru.univ-brest.fr/~singhoff/cheddar/ ) or StarFLIP++ ( http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/proj/StarFLIP/StarFLIP.htm ) are trying to solve. Anyone know of others ? I bet we could all work out the constraints we would like to see in projects, e.g. rules like -No more than X persons on a task, -Schedule Time Only within slack, -Person works on no more than X tasks, -Person works no more then X% on a task, -No more than X% or X people allocated from a group, -Task uses people only from X group, -Task start is between A and B (with flat or normal arrival distribution), - etc etc etc... the last is very much real-world and so our scheduler would have to resolve fuzzy constraints like a Task start is between A and B dates and you may have 1 or 2 workers available because we all know this is very much real life when people promise to be ready but are not and goods may arrive within a window. Some constraints would be set on the Task, some on the Resource and some on the Project preferences. Given these constraints, the resources, and the tasks then produce a schedule not by coding within Planner but by transforming the inputs and feeding to another program, then taking that other programs output and feeding back the result to the project (all hidden from the user). The result is simply a new list of Task start/end times and resource allocation and usage which Planner should have no trouble in updating its GUI. So I feel that scheduling *could* be quite easy if we could identify a suitable 3rd party (but LGPL/GPL'd) tool, export our sets and describe the constraints in the language required by the scheduler. Does anyone have experience with any GPL/LGPL schedulers ? or know how they are feed with data and constraints ?. The cheddar one looks interesting as its XML input based and GPL and seems like an active project. Lincoln. Xavier Ordoquy wrote: > On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 23:03, Jos Vos wrote: > >>Hi, > > > Hi > > >>In relation to this: my biggest problem with MrProject was that >>it didn't seem to do resource scheduling, so people easily worked >>on three tasks in parallel for 100% of their time. > > > This point has also been discussed on the mailing list ([Planner] > Resource dependencies). > As far as I remember it ended up in the fact that resources can be used > above 100% and that resource usage shall not be compted by the > application because it may lead to an infinite number of possibilities. > > However I almost finished correcting the majors bugs on the resources > usage (the former timetable) which will offer you to view the resource > load against the time and enable you to move task to reduce load. > > On another hand I *may* start working on a prototype to compute resource > plan and add load constraints. > > >>Has this been improved in the meantime? Is it planned? I never >>understood how people could use a planning tool that couldn't do >>at least that, which caused my disappointement for MrProject, > > > Again, lemme take the example I've used before. > I got 2 resources (R1 and R2) and two tasks (T1 and T2). > T1 is 35 worked days long and T2 only 5. R2 can work on both but R1 can > only work on T1. Resources may not be used more than 100%. > > So, how do you expect the application to solve that ? > You can choose > > 1] > R2 work full time on T2 and then switch on T1. This will make T2 take 5 > days and T1 being 20 days (5 (R1) + 2*15 (R1+R2)). > > 2] > R2 work half time on T1 and T2. This will make T2 last 10 (5/0.5) days > and T1 20 days ( 10 (R1) + 5 (R2) + 2*10 (R1+R2) ) > > You can vary that as much as you want. > You can't either set the percentage of work on a task before the > computing. If you consider my previous example in the middle of a > project, any task glitch will false the all planning and it may finish > in having a resource used at 50% because you've set it this way. > > Consider you have this: > > days: 0----10----20----30 > T0: ====== (R1) > T0': ====== (R2) > T1: ------======= (R1,R2) (depends on T0) > T2: ------ (R2,50%) (depends on T0') > > Now imagine you just found that there's no need of TO' because it's > something the customer doesn't want to any longer. You'll now have: > > days: 0----10----20----30 > T0: ====== (R1) > T1: ------======= (R1,R2) (depends on T0) > T2: ------ (R2,50%) > > Now if you consider someone should either be allocated 100% to a task > you're wrong with experts that have various tasks that doesn't take them > full time (like those that get halftime with a crew and halftime with > another within a project). > Sharing time as (100/number of tasks) is also wrong because it may > expand the critical path (examples are left as exercices ;) > > Therefore it was decided that planner will not manage resource by itself > (at least in the near future) but will try to provide an accurate view > to plan the resource load. (Do you agree on this point richard and > mickael ?) > > The resource usage should be included in the next release (0.12) and > will help gather opinion on it to make it better then. > > Regards, > Xavier Ordoquy. > > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner > From jos@xos037.xos.nl Mon Jan 26 09:31:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from simba.xos.nl (simba.xos.nl [212.26.207.226]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D23C047 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:31:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from xos037.xos.nl (xos037.xos.nl [212.26.207.37]) by simba.xos.nl (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA31193 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:36:48 +0100 Received: (from jos@localhost) by xos037.xos.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id i0Q8axQ31672; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:36:59 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:36:59 +0100 From: Jos Vos To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Opensched and resource scheduling Message-ID: <20040126093659.A31636@xos037.xos.nl> References: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net>; from xordoquy@wanadoo.fr on Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 12:22:22AM +0100 X-Organization: X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV, Amsterdam, The Netherlands X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:31:14 -0000 On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 12:22:22AM +0100, Xavier Ordoquy wrote: > As far as I remember it ended up in the fact that resources can be used > above 100% and that resource usage shall not be compted by the > application because it may lead to an infinite number of possibilities. Well, Opensched does it, AFAIK. And doesn't MS-Project solve this too? (I never used *any* MS-software, not even Windows ;-), so I don't know.) > On another hand I *may* start working on a prototype to compute resource > plan and add load constraints. Maybe intergrate the Opensched algorithm? > Again, lemme take the example I've used before. > I got 2 resources (R1 and R2) and two tasks (T1 and T2). > T1 is 35 worked days long and T2 only 5. R2 can work on both but R1 can > only work on T1. Resources may not be used more than 100%. > > So, how do you expect the application to solve that ? Maybe with priorities on tasks? If most (all?) tasks have a different priority, this should limit the possibilities (together with all kinds of other contraints, like dependencies, fixed allocation/starting time/dealines, etc.). > Now if you consider someone should either be allocated 100% to a task > you're wrong with experts that have various tasks that doesn't take them > full time (like those that get halftime with a crew and halftime with > another within a project). Exactly what I see in real life, so it should indeed be possible to pin long-lasting tasks for someone for, say, 25% of his/her time. > Therefore it was decided that planner will not manage resource by itself > (at least in the near future) but will try to provide an accurate view > to plan the resource load. (Do you agree on this point richard and > mickael ?) > > The resource usage should be included in the next release (0.12) and > will help gather opinion on it to make it better then. I'm curious how this will work, will certainly take a look at it. I'm not a planning expert, just want to use the tool, and considered it pretty useless for my purpose with the lack of this functionality. Thanks, -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From waldemar@nxp.com Thu Jan 1 01:33:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EBF6C02E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 01:33:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Abqq1-0000Ug-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:37:21 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Abqq0-0004oB-HE for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:37:20 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:37:19 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Some issues References: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 00:33:28 -0000
Sheldon Simms wrote:
--- Waldemar Augustyn <waldemar@nxp.com> wrote:
    
      
  
1. Extension.It would be nice to abandon this very long ".mrproject" suffix.
Three-letter extensions seem to be a  norm. *.pln or *.pnr ???  
        
    
  
The extension is a bit long, agreed. I'm not sure if it really matters though?
      

  
OK, I did.

I think this is one of those little annoyances that turn people off.
Most expect three letters extensions, I would give it to them.
Planner is generally pretty good wrt the usability issues.
Very few in-your-face Unixisms.  That's good.
    

I have to comment on this. The length of the file extension is NOT a usability
issue. You talk about "in-your-face Unixisms" without bothering to acknowledge
the facts -- that a three letter extension on a file name is an archaic remnant
of a dead operating system and is itself an "in-your-face" Microsoftism.

You say "Most expect three letter extensions" but what you really mean is "I expect
three letter extensions" or equivalently "I have such an emotional commitment to
whatever Microsoft Windows does, that I can't accept any deviation whatsoever".
  
My advice to you is to simply get over it and accept that fact that only a complete
idiot would reject a program because it adds ".mrproject" to the end of its files
by default. I prefer no extension at all. Using an extension to specify the contents
of the file is ridiculous. It is possible to change the extension of any arbitrary
file to ".exe" in Windows, and Windows is stupid enough to try and run it. Do you
really think that's a good thing?!
Three letter extensions have been widely accepted.  It does not matter who originated them (certainly not MS, their existence predates the first IBM PC).  I do not see the point of Planner fighting that war.  I believe it is in the product's best interest to go with the flow on things that "do not matter".


My suggestion on the matter is to add a preferences dialog where the user can
select whatever extension he wants, or eliminate the extension entirely. A newly
installed Planner could have a default file extension of ".planner" or something
similar (".mrproject" is wrong because the program isn't called "Mr. Project"
any more). That way, the default would make sense, people like me could remove
the extension altogether, and pointy-haired bosses, Microsoft sycophants, and
other conformists could invent some a three letter extension.
That's fine as long as it does not insist on appending anything.
From ramirez@johalla.de Thu Jan 1 11:46:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from maus.johalla.de (evision30.do.revmap.vianetworks.de [194.77.215.62]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AADD7C04E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 11:46:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from knuth (p50903316.dip.t-dialin.net [80.144.51.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by maus.johalla.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i01AoA6E010606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 11:50:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [Planner] File extension From: Christoph Begall To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> References: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1072954659.6683.12.camel@knuth> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 11:57:39 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 10:46:15 -0000 Regarding the file extension: What is the normal GNOME way of doing this? I think it is to append ., which seems quite reasonable to me. If somebody wants to put this in preferences, it should be stated very clearly, why this is so important. Otherwise one ends up with too many things in the preferences dialog, which normally will never be changed. The general trend seems to be to use less options (see epiphany vs. galeon). Am Do, den 01.01.2004 schrieb Waldemar Augustyn um 01:37: > Sheldon Simms wrote: > > --- Waldemar Augustyn wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Extension.It would be nice to abandon this very long ".mrproject" suffix. > > > > > Three-letter extensions seem to be a norm. *.pln or *.pnr ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The extension is a bit long, agreed. I'm not sure if it really matters though? > > > > > > > > > OK, I did. > > > > > > I think this is one of those little annoyances that turn people off. > > > Most expect three letters extensions, I would give it to them. > > > Planner is generally pretty good wrt the usability issues. > > > Very few in-your-face Unixisms. That's good. > > > > > I have to comment on this. The length of the file extension is NOT a usability > > issue. You talk about "in-your-face Unixisms" without bothering to acknowledge > > the facts -- that a three letter extension on a file name is an archaic remnant > > of a dead operating system and is itself an "in-your-face" Microsoftism. > > > > You say "Most expect three letter extensions" but what you really mean is "I expect > > three letter extensions" or equivalently "I have such an emotional commitment to > > whatever Microsoft Windows does, that I can't accept any deviation whatsoever". > > > > My advice to you is to simply get over it and accept that fact that only a complete > > idiot would reject a program because it adds ".mrproject" to the end of its files > > by default. I prefer no extension at all. Using an extension to specify the contents > > of the file is ridiculous. It is possible to change the extension of any arbitrary > > file to ".exe" in Windows, and Windows is stupid enough to try and run it. Do you > > really think that's a good thing?! > > > Three letter extensions have been widely accepted. It does not matter > who originated them (certainly not MS, their existence predates the > first IBM PC). I do not see the point of Planner fighting that war. > I believe it is in the product's best interest to go with the flow on > things that "do not matter". > > > > My suggestion on the matter is to add a preferences dialog where the user can > > select whatever extension he wants, or eliminate the extension entirely. A newly > > installed Planner could have a default file extension of ".planner" or something > > similar (".mrproject" is wrong because the program isn't called "Mr. Project" > > any more). That way, the default would make sense, people like me could remove > > the extension altogether, and pointy-haired bosses, Microsoft sycophants, and > > other conformists could invent some a three letter extension. > > > That's fine as long as it does not insist on appending anything. > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner -- Christoph Begall From waldemar@nxp.com Thu Jan 1 15:24:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04937C04E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 15:24:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Ac3oN-0007L9-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:28:32 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ac3oN-0005B7-Hx for planner@lists.imendio.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:28:31 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF42E8E.6030309@nxp.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:28:30 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] File extension References: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> <1072954659.6683.12.camel@knuth> In-Reply-To: <1072954659.6683.12.camel@knuth> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:24:37 -0000 Christoph Begall wrote: >Regarding the file extension: >What is the normal GNOME way of doing this? I think it is to append >., which seems quite reasonable to me. > > But why would you follow Gnome if there is Open Office out there? OO has a void that Planner can fill. Maybe the project managers will tell us what the intentions are. >If somebody wants to put this in preferences, it should be stated very >clearly, why this is so important. Otherwise one ends up with too many >things in the preferences dialog, which normally will never be changed. > >The general trend seems to be to use less options (see epiphany vs. >galeon). > > > From wsxyz6294@yahoo.com Thu Jan 1 18:14:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from web60703.mail.yahoo.com (web60703.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.117.226]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 19D19C04E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 18:14:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <20040101171818.25089.qmail@web60703.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.184.83.239] by web60703.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:18:18 PST Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 09:18:18 -0800 (PST) From: Sheldon Simms Subject: Re: [Planner] File extension To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF42E8E.6030309@nxp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:14:34 -0000 --- Waldemar Augustyn wrote: > Christoph Begall wrote: > > >Regarding the file extension: > >What is the normal GNOME way of doing this? I think it is to append > >., which seems quite reasonable to me. > > But why would you follow Gnome if there is Open Office out there? OO > has a void that Planner can fill. Perhaps because Planner is a Gnome application? I don't quite understand why you seem to think this is such a big deal. As you imply, OpenOffice does append a three-letter extension. That has never bothered me, although I think three-letter extensions are silly. Why does it bother you so much when a program doesn't use a three-letter extension? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From waldemar@nxp.com Thu Jan 1 20:40:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C48C04E for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 20:40:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Ac8kF-0005km-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:44:36 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ac8kF-0003nh-FL for planner@lists.imendio.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:44:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF478A2.5010807@nxp.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:44:34 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] File extension References: <20040101171818.25089.qmail@web60703.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040101171818.25089.qmail@web60703.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:40:40 -0000 Sheldon Simms wrote:
--- Waldemar Augustyn <waldemar@nxp.com> wrote:
  
Christoph Begall wrote:

    
Regarding the file extension:
What is the normal GNOME way of doing this? I think it is to append
.<appname>, which seems quite reasonable to me.
      
But why would you follow Gnome if there is Open Office out there?  OO 
has a void that Planner can fill.
    

Perhaps because Planner is a Gnome application?
Sure, there may be some sponsorship issues that drive the product strategy.  I do not know how it works in the "open" development world.

As a user, I am looking for a management tool, not for a "Gnome enhancement".  I guess, it boils down to what the strategy is.  Is it  intended to be tied to, and to live and die along with, Gnome.  Or is it supposed to be a Project Management tool first and foremost that is looking for best ways to become a mainstream tool.
I don't quite understand why you seem to think this is such a big deal.
As you imply, OpenOffice does append a three-letter extension. That has
never bothered me, although I think three-letter extensions are silly.
Why does it bother you so much when a program doesn't use a three-letter
extension?


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From richard@imendio.com Fri Jan 2 12:38:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D43C04F for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:38:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0995612BEF for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:40:04 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Some issues From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF32AA5.7040506@nxp.com> References: <3FF1D363.10706@nxp.com> <1390.81.226.154.28.1072867262.squirrel@secure.mikan.net> <3FF32AA5.7040506@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073043631.11231.0.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 12:40:31 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 11:38:14 -0000 ons 2003-12-31 klockan 20.59 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > > It would be great if you could file a bug in the bugzilla database at > > > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=planner > > > > > OK, I did. Thanks! /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From richard@imendio.com Mon Jan 5 11:14:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E70C047 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:14:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B4C212BFE for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:15:55 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Some issues From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF35E7E.9090104@nxp.com> References: <3FF1D363.10706@nxp.com> <1390.81.226.154.28.1072867262.squirrel@secure.mikan.net> <200312311713.54828.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> <3FF35E7E.9090104@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073297789.4552.123.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 11:16:29 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 10:14:04 -0000 tor 2004-01-01 klockan 00.40 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > But in addition to batch entry, there is the issue of massaging a living > project. I did not expect to see performance issues with just a 100 > task sample. That worries me. Even more so when it's been speculated > the cause might be quite non-deterministic. I hope this will be > addressed in some way. Of course it will be, it's just a bug :) If anyone wants to try and fix it, I could give some pointers. /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From micke@imendio.com Mon Jan 5 19:04:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F21C047 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:04:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from h238n1c1o1035.bredband.skanova.com (h238n1c1o1035.bredband.skanova.com [81.227.16.238]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F1812BE0 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:05:59 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Some issues From: Mikael Hallendal To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> References: <20031231222818.13558.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <3FF36BBF.1050009@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendio HB Message-Id: <1073326406.13934.33.camel@chili.home.hallendal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:13:27 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:04:09 -0000 tor 2004-01-01 klockan 01.37 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > Three letter extensions have been widely accepted. It does not matter > who originated them (certainly not MS, their existence predates the > first IBM PC). I do not see the point of Planner fighting that war. There is no war to be fought. There are loads of programs not using three letter extensions, simple because there is a limited number of three letter extensions (and especially those that makes sense). I don't see how this has anything todo with whether planner tries to fill a void in OO.o or GNOME or just project managers in general. *.pln doesn't really tell the user anything, .planner does so the .pln does less usability-wise. > I believe it is in the product's best interest to go with the flow on > things that "do not matter". If there was a "flow", sure, but there isn't (unless we only target the Windows platform, a platform currently not a target platform at all). Regards, Mikael Hallendal -- Mikael Hallendal micke@imendio.com Imendio HB http://www.imendio.com Phone: +46 (0)709 718 918 From brian@simpleprojectmanagement.com Tue Jan 6 02:56:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED60C047 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 02:56:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from sdn-ap-013txhousp0033.dialsprint.net ([63.190.128.33] helo=SimpleProjectManagement.com) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AdgWN-0002Q3-00; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:00:39 -0800 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:02:42 -0600 Subject: [Planner] Resource dependencies Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) To: wsxyz6294@yahoo.com From: Brian Christensen In-Reply-To: <20031224110004.E344EC04F@master.imendio.com> Message-Id: <6997A9BE-3FEC-11D8-A40D-000393D72CDE@SimpleProjectManagement.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: planner@lists.imendio.com X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:56:30 -0000 Sheldon, > I'm trying out Planner for the first time today. It seems to work very > well so far, but I have a > question. Is there any way for Planner 0.11 to implement dependencies > between tasks based on > (work) resource availability, or do I just have to manually create > task dependencies? > > Just in case I'm not sufficiently clear, I have a situation where one > "startup" task is a > predecessor of about 8 different tasks that are logically parallel. > However, all of the tasks are > assigned the same resource at 100% and Planner seems to be perfectly > happy scheduling all of the > tasks simultaneously, although the resource can't actually work at > 800% to do all of them in > parallel. This question goes back to the definition of what a dependency is. Most of the books say that a task A is dependent on a task B if task B can't start until task A is finished. However, even though the tasks are logically parallel, if the same person is going to do both tasks, that person will almost always have a preference in the order they are done. It is convenient to treat the tasks "as if" they were dependent and to define dependencies between them. It is better to define a "treat them as if" dependency than to let the tool define a random order for the tasks. This shows up most clearly when you are taking status from the team. Say your team member has been assigned tasks A, B, and C. that are logically parallel and so can be done in any order. Let's assume that the tasks will each take a week to complete. You let the computer assign an arbitrary order to the tasks and it comes up with C then B then A. What does your status look like if the person decides to complete task A first? You would have to report that task C is late and task A is early. You would also have to explain to your management and to your customer why it is not a problem to have a late task. Why create problems for yourself that can be avoided? If the tasks are relatively small there is another approach you can use. If you plan on taking status weekly and the three tasks together would take a week or less to complete, combine them into one larger task. Then you have only one task to schedule and assign. The fact that the pieces of the larger task can be completed in any order stops being a scheduling concern. Speaking of enhancements to planner. Instead of an algorithm that schedules tasks based on resource availability, it would be more useful (and easier to implement) if planner would allow the scheduler to enter both "hard" and "soft" (or "as if") dependencies. They could be treated the same by the scheduling algorithm, but the distinction would help the project manager to keep track of which is which. -- Brian Christensen P.S. Sheldon, would it be okay with you if I quote your question on my web page? ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.SimpleProjectManagement.com (What everyone in your organization needs to know about project management.) From wsxyz6294@yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 04:36:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from web60710.mail.yahoo.com (web60710.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.117.233]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with SMTP id ECBE2C047 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 04:36:03 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.184.83.239] by web60710.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:39:59 PST Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:39:59 -0800 (PST) From: Sheldon Simms Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies To: planner@lists.imendio.com In-Reply-To: <6997A9BE-3FEC-11D8-A40D-000393D72CDE@SimpleProjectManagement.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 03:36:04 -0000 --- Brian Christensen wrote: > Sheldon, > > > I'm trying out Planner for the first time today. It seems to work very > > well so far, but I have a > > question. Is there any way for Planner 0.11 to implement dependencies > > between tasks based on > > (work) resource availability, or do I just have to manually create > > task dependencies? > > > > Just in case I'm not sufficiently clear, I have a situation where one > > "startup" task is a > > predecessor of about 8 different tasks that are logically parallel. > > However, all of the tasks are > > assigned the same resource at 100% and Planner seems to be perfectly > > happy scheduling all of the > > tasks simultaneously, although the resource can't actually work at > > 800% to do all of them in > > parallel. > > This question goes back to the definition of what a dependency is. Most > of the books say that a task A is dependent on a task B if task B can't > start until task A is finished. However, even though the tasks are > logically parallel, if the same person is going to do both tasks, that > person will almost always have a preference in the order they are done. > It is convenient to treat the tasks "as if" they were dependent and to > define dependencies between them. > > It is better to define a "treat them as if" dependency than to let the > tool define a random order for the tasks. This shows up most clearly > when you are taking status from the team. Say your team member has been > assigned tasks A, B, and C. that are logically parallel and so can be > done in any order. Let's assume that the tasks will each take a week > to complete. You let the computer assign an arbitrary order to the > tasks and it comes up with C then B then A. What does your status look > like if the person decides to complete task A first? You would have to > report that task C is late and task A is early. You would also have to > explain to your management and to your customer why it is not a problem > to have a late task. Why create problems for yourself that can be > avoided? ... some snippage... I don't really see how this relates to my question, which was about resource overcommitment. Perhaps most readers of this list are thinking about software development projects and expect to a resource to be capable of being 100% committed to multiple tasks at once. I was thinking of other situations where resources can not be overcommitted. For example, if the resource is a piece of equipment. Can it be in my office 100% of time and in your office 100% of the time? You and I might have logically parallel tasks, but if both of our tasks require the equipment resource, they cannot procede in parallel (with 100% resource allocation), no matter what our manager might wish. I accept that resource overcommitment should be allowed by the program, but I would like to be able to make resources non-overcommitable. If I have a non-overcommitable resource assigned to several logically parallel tasks, then the program might give me a choice: A) order the tasks prefer- entially, or B) allow the tasks to procede in parallel by dividing (equally or not) the resource commitment among the tasks, or C) some combination of A and B. > P.S. Sheldon, would it be okay with you if I quote your question on my > web page? Sure, no problem __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From waldemar@nxp.com Tue Jan 6 05:01:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11241C047 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 05:01:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AdiTR-000365-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:05:45 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AdiTQ-0008O3-LV for planner@lists.imendio.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:05:44 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFA3417.4030501@nxp.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:05:43 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <6997A9BE-3FEC-11D8-A40D-000393D72CDE@SimpleProjectManagement.com> In-Reply-To: <6997A9BE-3FEC-11D8-A40D-000393D72CDE@SimpleProjectManagement.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 04:01:35 -0000 Brian Christensen wrote: > Sheldon, > >> I'm trying out Planner for the first time today. It seems to work >> very well so far, but I have a >> question. Is there any way for Planner 0.11 to implement dependencies >> between tasks based on >> (work) resource availability, or do I just have to manually create >> task dependencies? >> >> Just in case I'm not sufficiently clear, I have a situation where one >> "startup" task is a >> predecessor of about 8 different tasks that are logically parallel. >> However, all of the tasks are >> assigned the same resource at 100% and Planner seems to be perfectly >> happy scheduling all of the >> tasks simultaneously, although the resource can't actually work at >> 800% to do all of them in >> parallel. > > > This question goes back to the definition of what a dependency is. > Most of the books say that a task A is dependent on a task B if That's all true above and below. However, the described situation is so common, it would be nice to have an easy way to resolve these conflicts knowing perfectly well it is really the manager's job to put his/her decision behind it. The tool could be quite dumb, for example it could blindly serialize the selected tasks in the order they appear. But as long as the user has a clear idea what the tool is doing, it could prove very useful. I can't wait to see what the "Time Table View" mentioned in the Roadmap can do. > task B can't start until task A is finished. However, even though the > tasks are logically parallel, if the same person is going to do both > tasks, that person will almost always have a preference in the order > they are done. It is convenient to treat the tasks "as if" they were > dependent and to define dependencies between them. > > It is better to define a "treat them as if" dependency than to let the > tool define a random order for the tasks. This shows up most clearly > when you are taking status from the team. Say your team member has > been assigned tasks A, B, and C. that are logically parallel and so > can be done in any order. Let's assume that the tasks will each take > a week to complete. You let the computer assign an arbitrary order to > the tasks and it comes up with C then B then A. What does your status > look like if the person decides to complete task A first? You would > have to report that task C is late and task A is early. You would also > have to explain to your management and to your customer why it is not > a problem to have a late task. Why create problems for yourself that > can be avoided? > > If the tasks are relatively small there is another approach you can > use. If you plan on taking status weekly and the three tasks together > would take a week or less to complete, combine them into one larger > task. Then you have only one task to schedule and assign. The fact > that the pieces of the larger task can be completed in any order stops > being a scheduling concern. > > Speaking of enhancements to planner. Instead of an algorithm that > schedules tasks based on resource availability, it would be more > useful (and easier to implement) if planner would allow the scheduler > to enter both "hard" and "soft" (or "as if") dependencies. They could > be treated the same by the scheduling algorithm, but the distinction > would help the project manager to keep track of which is which. > > -- Brian Christensen > > P.S. Sheldon, would it be okay with you if I quote your question on my > web page? > ---------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.SimpleProjectManagement.com > (What everyone in your organization needs to know about project > management.) > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner > > From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Tue Jan 6 16:48:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0501.wanadoo.fr (smtp5.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.26]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE051C02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:48:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-3-203.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.15.21.203]) by mwinf0501.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 472824001A0 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:52:24 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1073404345.505.20.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:52:26 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:48:07 -0000 Hi all. I'm working a bit on the time table view. It is someone else contribution. At the moment it shows you the resource usage level (none, between 1 to 100% and over 100%). You can also move tasks that overloads a given resource. First, I'm going to remove this view "resource usage" because timetable isn't very explicit. This put appart there are a lot of thing one can do with this view that would deeply affect planner and therefore needs to be discused before. The idea of implementing resource dependancies sounds cool to me but implies more than it first seems. Let me take an example. I have a project with resources R1 and R2. As they just finished a project rushing, I'm not willing to imply them more than 100%. I also have two tasks T1 and T2. T1 last 35 worked days and T2 only 5. R1 and R2 can work on T1 but only R1 can do T2. I enter the project in planner and what should the result be ? There are a lot of ways to solve the project. R1 works on T2 at 100% to finish it in the 5 days and then helps R2 on T1 (total: 20 days) R1 works on the two tasks half time and after 10 days comes full on T1 (same total). Therefore one could give an attribute to tell how needed is the tasks (ranging from "neede for last month" to "whenever"). However the example also implies that a resource commitement depends on the time line and it also implies a lot of changes in planner internal. I'm looking forward to your comments and ideas about that ;) Regards, Xavier. From mjnf@uevora.pt Tue Jan 6 17:25:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from evunix.uevora.pt (unknown [193.136.216.1]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE14BC02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:25:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (root@evunix.uevora.pt [193.136.216.1]) by evunix.uevora.pt (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id i06GTKLJ029501 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:29:20 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio?= Filipe To: Planner Project Manager Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-06GEnnMAxDSCTunwSe6J" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Message-Id: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Planner] SQL schema for planner X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:25:18 -0000 X-Original-Date: 06 Jan 2004 16:29:12 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:25:18 -0000 --=-06GEnnMAxDSCTunwSe6J Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Is the sql schema for planner available anywhere? Thanks --=20 Mario Filipe=20 mjnf@uevora.pt http://neptuno.sc.uevora.pt/~mjnf=20 --=-06GEnnMAxDSCTunwSe6J Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/+uJYVm7HI0r66XkRAm50AKDBxiMkHozWfmEWpyyqUwEQtV3tygCg4QtU J2sSfqA/omI4wb7aUqMUoc8= =brjz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-06GEnnMAxDSCTunwSe6J-- From waldemar@nxp.com Tue Jan 6 17:28:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D1CC02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:28:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Adu7x-0003ws-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:32:21 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Adu7w-0000Em-MY for planner@lists.imendio.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:32:20 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFAE313.2080808@nxp.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:32:19 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> <1073404345.505.20.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> In-Reply-To: <1073404345.505.20.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:28:04 -0000 Resource allocation is a very complex problem. Invariably, the solution requires the Manager's judgment. With modest means, it may be very difficult, if not impossible, to design a tool that uses rules and parameters to resolve conflicts automatically. Therefore, we may be better off considering a "toolset" approach, something analogous to various tools most drawing programs use. For example the "alignment tool" is a good reference. A drawing program does not align objects on its own. Instead, the user can select a few objects and hit the "align" button to get the desirable effect. Similarly, the Planner would not be resolving resource allocation problems by itself. Instead, it would offer a tool for the user to do it on demand. For example, the user could select a set of tasks, then hit a button to spread out the load in some pre-determined manner. It could be as simple as going in the order of tasks (It would actually make sense, since tasks tend to be entered in the expected order of execution). There could be different buttons indicating different types of action. The result would be a creation of dependencies as if entered by hand, i.e. the Planner would not be re-calculating the resource allocation rules. Xavier Ordoquy wrote: >Hi all. > >I'm working a bit on the time table view. >It is someone else contribution. At the moment it shows you the resource usage level (none, between 1 to 100% and over 100%). >You can also move tasks that overloads a given resource. > >First, I'm going to remove this view "resource usage" because timetable isn't very explicit. >This put appart there are a lot of thing one can do with this view that would deeply affect planner and therefore needs to be discused before. > >The idea of implementing resource dependancies sounds cool to me but implies more than it first seems. >Let me take an example. >I have a project with resources R1 and R2. As they just finished a project rushing, I'm not willing to imply them more than 100%. I also have two tasks T1 and T2. >T1 last 35 worked days and T2 only 5. R1 and R2 can work on T1 but only R1 can do T2. >I enter the project in planner and what should the result be ? There are a lot of ways to solve the project. > >R1 works on T2 at 100% to finish it in the 5 days and then helps R2 on T1 (total: 20 days) >R1 works on the two tasks half time and after 10 days comes full on T1 (same total). > >Therefore one could give an attribute to tell how needed is the tasks (ranging from "neede for last month" to "whenever"). >However the example also implies that a resource commitement depends on the time line and it also implies a lot of changes in planner internal. > >I'm looking forward to your comments and ideas about that ;) > >Regards, >Xavier. > >_______________________________________________ >Planner mailing list >Planner@lists.imendio.com >http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner > > > > From richard@imendio.com Tue Jan 6 17:42:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 841F3C02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 784EC12BE0 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:44:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-RQNiHzHpo4G0nrObhf6H" Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:45:04 +0100 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:42:36 -0000 --=-RQNiHzHpo4G0nrObhf6H Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit tis 2004-01-06 klockan 17.29 skrev Mário Filipe: > Hi > > Is the sql schema for planner available anywhere? It's distributed with the source code. In a coming release we should install it as well, and more importantly, add database setup code to the GUI so you don't need to do that manually. Attaching the schema for now, Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com --=-RQNiHzHpo4G0nrObhf6H Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=database.sql Content-Type: text/x-sql; name=database.sql; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- $Id: database.sql,v 1.1.1.1 2003/12/01 17:36:26 rhult Exp $ -- Planner Database Schema -- Daniel Lundin -- Richard Hult -- Copyright 2003 CodeFactory AB -- -- Project -- CREATE TABLE project ( proj_id serial, name text NOT NULL, company text, manager text, proj_start date NOT NULL DEFAULT CURRENT_TIMESTAMP, cal_id integer, phase text, default_group_id integer, revision integer, last_user text NOT NULL DEFAULT (user), PRIMARY KEY (proj_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON project TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON project_proj_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Phases -- CREATE TABLE phase ( phase_id serial, proj_id integer, name text NOT NULL, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (phase_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON phase TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON phase_phase_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Day Types -- CREATE TABLE daytype ( dtype_id serial, proj_id integer, name text, descr text, is_work boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT FALSE, is_nonwork boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT FALSE, UNIQUE (proj_id, name), FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (dtype_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON daytype TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON daytype_dtype_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Calendar -- CREATE TABLE calendar ( cal_id serial, proj_id integer, parent_cid integer, name text, day_mon integer DEFAULT NULL, day_tue integer DEFAULT NULL, day_wed integer DEFAULT NULL, day_thu integer DEFAULT NULL, day_fri integer DEFAULT NULL, day_sat integer DEFAULT NULL, day_sun integer DEFAULT NULL, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (day_mon) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_tue) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_wed) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_thu) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_fri) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_sat) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (day_sun) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE SET DEFAULT ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED, FOREIGN KEY (parent_cid) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE SET NULL ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (cal_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON calendar TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON calendar_cal_id_seq TO GROUP planner; ALTER TABLE project ADD CONSTRAINT project_cal_id FOREIGN KEY (cal_id) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE INITIALLY DEFERRED; -- -- Day -- CREATE TABLE day ( day_id serial, cal_id integer, dtype_id integer, date date, FOREIGN KEY (dtype_id) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (cal_id) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (day_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON day TO GROUP planner; -- -- Day (working) Interval -- CREATE TABLE day_interval ( cal_id integer, dtype_id integer, start_time time with time zone, end_time time with time zone, FOREIGN KEY (dtype_id) REFERENCES daytype (dtype_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE DEFERRABLE, FOREIGN KEY (cal_id) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (dtype_id, cal_id, start_time, end_time) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON day_interval TO GROUP planner; -- -- Task -- CREATE TABLE task ( task_id serial, parent_id integer, proj_id integer, name text NOT NULL, note text, start timestamp with time zone, finish timestamp with time zone, work integer DEFAULT 0, duration integer DEFAULT 0, percent_complete integer DEFAULT 0, is_milestone boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT FALSE, is_fixed_work boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT TRUE, constraint_type text NOT NULL DEFAULT 'ASAP', constraint_time timestamp with time zone, CHECK (constraint_type = 'ASAP' OR constraint_type = 'MSO' OR constraint_type = 'FNLT' OR constraint_type = 'SNET'), CHECK (percent_complete > -1 AND percent_complete < 101), FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (parent_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE SET NULL ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (task_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON task TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON task_task_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- FIXME: Add triggers to handle different types of tasks/milestones -- -- Predecessor (tasks) -- CREATE TABLE predecessor ( task_id integer NOT NULL, pred_task_id integer NOT NULL, pred_id serial, type text NOT NULL DEFAULT 'FS', lag integer DEFAULT 0, CHECK (type = 'FS' OR type = 'FF' OR type = 'SS' OR type = 'SF'), UNIQUE (pred_id), FOREIGN KEY (task_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (pred_task_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (task_id, pred_task_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON predecessor TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON predecessor_pred_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Property types -- CREATE TABLE property_type ( proptype_id serial, proj_id integer, name text NOT NULL, label text NOT NULL, type text NOT NULL DEFAULT 'text', owner text NOT NULL DEFAULT 'project', descr text, CHECK (type = 'date' OR type = 'duration' OR type = 'float' OR type = 'int' OR type = 'text' OR type = 'text-list' OR type = 'cost'), CHECK (owner = 'project' OR owner = 'task' OR owner = 'resource'), UNIQUE (proj_id, name), FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (proptype_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON property_type TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON property_type_proptype_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Properties -- CREATE TABLE property ( prop_id serial, proptype_id integer NOT NULL, value text, FOREIGN KEY (proptype_id) REFERENCES property_type (proptype_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (prop_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON property TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON property_prop_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Project properties -- CREATE TABLE project_to_property ( proj_id integer, prop_id integer, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (prop_id) REFERENCES property (prop_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (proj_id, prop_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON project_to_property TO GROUP planner; -- -- Task properties -- CREATE TABLE task_to_property ( prop_id integer, task_id integer, FOREIGN KEY (task_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (prop_id) REFERENCES property (prop_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (task_id, prop_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON task_to_property TO GROUP planner; -- -- Resource Group -- CREATE TABLE resource_group ( group_id serial, proj_id integer, name text NOT NULL, admin_name text, admin_phone text, admin_email text, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (group_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON resource_group TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON resource_group_group_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Resource -- CREATE TABLE resource ( res_id serial, proj_id integer, group_id integer, name text, email text, note text, is_worker boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT TRUE, units real NOT NULL DEFAULT 1.0, std_rate real NOT NULL DEFAULT 0.0, ovt_rate real NOT NULL DEFAULT 0.0, cal_id integer, FOREIGN KEY (proj_id) REFERENCES project (proj_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (group_id) REFERENCES resource_group (group_id) ON DELETE SET NULL ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (cal_id) REFERENCES calendar (cal_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (res_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON resource TO GROUP planner; GRANT select,update ON resource_res_id_seq TO GROUP planner; -- -- Resource properties -- CREATE TABLE resource_to_property ( prop_id integer, res_id integer, FOREIGN KEY (res_id) REFERENCES resource (res_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (prop_id) REFERENCES property (prop_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (res_id, prop_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON resource_to_property TO GROUP planner; -- -- Allocations (of resources) -- CREATE TABLE allocation ( task_id integer, res_id integer, units real NOT NULL DEFAULT 1.0, FOREIGN KEY (res_id) REFERENCES resource (res_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, FOREIGN KEY (task_id) REFERENCES task (task_id) ON DELETE CASCADE ON UPDATE CASCADE, PRIMARY KEY (res_id, task_id) ); GRANT select,insert,update,delete ON allocation TO GROUP planner; --=-RQNiHzHpo4G0nrObhf6H-- From richard@imendio.com Tue Jan 6 17:47:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64EC8C02E; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:47:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F37312BE0; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:49:17 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FFAE313.2080808@nxp.com> References: <20040106033959.34869.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> <1073404345.505.20.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> <3FFAE313.2080808@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073407794.4429.4706.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:49:54 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Planner Dev X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:47:26 -0000 tis 2004-01-06 klockan 17.32 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > Similarly, the Planner would not be resolving resource allocation > problems by itself. Instead, it would offer a tool for the user to do > it on demand. For example, the user could select a set of tasks, then > hit a button to spread out the load in some pre-determined manner. It > could be as simple as going in the order of tasks (It would actually > make sense, since tasks tend to be entered in the expected order of > execution). There could be different buttons indicating different types > of action. The result would be a creation of dependencies as if entered > by hand, i.e. the Planner would not be re-calculating the resource > allocation rules. I have been thinking something along the lines of this too for a while. One way to do it could be to have task dependencies that planner sets up, and are handled exactly the same as manually added ones, but they are displayed differently to indicate that they are added to even out the resource load. I think a very simple algorithm could be very helpful (like you say, just spread tasks out, according to line nr ordering and the task priority property). What do people think of that? It should be a pretty straight forward task if anyone is willing to help out. /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From mjnf@uevora.pt Tue Jan 6 18:01:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from evunix.uevora.pt (unknown [193.136.216.1]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17FAEC02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:01:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (root@evunix.uevora.pt [193.136.216.1]) by evunix.uevora.pt (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-3) with ESMTP id i06H5mLJ013074 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:05:55 GMT Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio?= Filipe To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-s90/rjJPrYNkCcBcQmDj" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Message-Id: <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:01:50 -0000 X-Original-Date: 06 Jan 2004 17:05:26 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:01:50 -0000 --=-s90/rjJPrYNkCcBcQmDj Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi On Ter, 2004-01-06 at 16:45, Richard Hult wrote: =20 > It's distributed with the source code. In a coming release we should > install it as well, and more importantly, add database setup code to the > GUI so you don't need to do that manually.=20 I didn't get it in my source (wich I got from Debian, instead of the official source). =20 > Attaching the schema for now, Thanks --=20 Mario Filipe=20 mjnf@uevora.pt http://neptuno.sc.uevora.pt/~mjnf=20 --=-s90/rjJPrYNkCcBcQmDj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/+urWVm7HI0r66XkRAmmlAKDEuHcenfPE+JLVIhX2njZlyOoi7wCggCF6 /Rpk0vpwm16is8QuT4paFes= =a1kl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-s90/rjJPrYNkCcBcQmDj-- From wsxyz6294@yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 19:10:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from web60706.mail.yahoo.com (web60706.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.117.229]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 91FC3C02E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:10:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.184.83.239] by web60706.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:14:56 PST Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:14:56 -0800 (PST) From: Sheldon Simms Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073407794.4429.4706.camel@carrot> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:10:55 -0000 Richard Hult wrote: > tis 2004-01-06 klockan 17.32 skrev Waldemar Augustyn: > > > Similarly, the Planner would not be resolving resource allocation > > problems by itself. Instead, it would offer a tool for the user to do > > it on demand. For example, the user could select a set of tasks, then > > hit a button to spread out the load in some pre-determined manner. It > > could be as simple as going in the order of tasks (It would actually > > make sense, since tasks tend to be entered in the expected order of > > execution). There could be different buttons indicating different types > > of action. The result would be a creation of dependencies as if entered > > by hand, i.e. the Planner would not be re-calculating the resource > > allocation rules. > > I have been thinking something along the lines of this too for a while. > > One way to do it could be to have task dependencies that planner sets > up, and are handled exactly the same as manually added ones, but they > are displayed differently to indicate that they are added to even out > the resource load. I think a very simple algorithm could be very helpful > (like you say, just spread tasks out, according to line nr ordering and > the task priority property). > > What do people think of that? It should be a pretty straight forward > task if anyone is willing to help out. Since I'm the one who started complaining, I'm willing to help out. I'm a good C programmer, but I don't have a lot of time at the moment and don't know anything about the internals of Planner. If that still sounds useful, toss me a task... -Sheldon __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From richard@imendio.com Wed Jan 7 11:25:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1373C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:25:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF7012BE0 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:27:42 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:28:19 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 10:25:51 -0000 tis 2004-01-06 klockan 19.14 skrev Sheldon Simms: > Since I'm the one who started complaining, I'm willing to help out. > I'm a good C programmer, but I don't have a lot of time at the moment > and don't know anything about the internals of Planner. If that still > sounds useful, toss me a task... There are a few subtasks: 1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually. 2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and planner-relation-arrow.c mostly). 3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load. 4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that dependencies are handled. 5. Implement the algorithm (mainly planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c). If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good starting points. Regards, Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From waldemar@nxp.com Wed Jan 7 15:05:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37768C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:05:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AeENZ-00041x-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:09:49 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AeENZ-0000im-81 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:09:49 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFC132C.2020007@nxp.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:09:48 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> In-Reply-To: <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:05:28 -0000

Richard Hult wrote:
tis 2004-01-06 klockan 19.14 skrev Sheldon Simms:

  
Since I'm the one who started complaining, I'm willing to help out.
I'm a good C programmer, but I don't have a lot of time at the moment
and don't know anything about the internals of Planner. If that still
sounds useful, toss me a task...
    

There are a few subtasks:

1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually.

2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and
planner-relation-arrow.c mostly).

3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load.

4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that
dependencies are handled.

5. Implement the algorithm (mainly
planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c).

If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good
On #1, if we use color or arrow style, then we probably have to make it available to the user to mark any dependency in that manner, not just those produced by the resource leveling tool.  That's because the designation should mean "dependency implied by resource constrains" not "dependency produced by the leveling tool".

Also, what follows is that we probably should mark the tasks with overcommitted resources in the same manner if they're not leveled. It would make it easy to see which need to be leveled.  The user should be free to mark any task with this designation manually.

The styles probably should go to the "preferences".  Maybe we come up with some sensible default.
starting points.

Regards,
Richard
From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Wed Jan 7 16:48:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0302.wanadoo.fr (smtp3.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.28]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23572C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:48:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-4-140.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.48.125.140]) by mwinf0302.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 38FFEC0002F9 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:53:01 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:53:09 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:48:39 -0000 Richard Hult sloffed: > There are a few subtasks: > > 1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually. > > 2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and > planner-relation-arrow.c mostly). > > 3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load. > > 4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that > dependencies are handled. > > 5. Implement the algorithm (mainly > planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c). > > If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good > starting points. Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. Let me take the example with two tasks for which of the two resources only one resource can work on both. It points that a resource commitement in a task can change against the time. This implies far more than it just sounds. Even if someone sets the balance between the 2 tasks for the resource. Task 1: ==================== (Resource 1, Resource 2) Task 2: ===== (Resource 1) ^ (1) (1) Resource 1 has finished task 2 on which he was working full time. He now ca work on task 1 at 100%. Gantt chart will have to make the distinction of before and after for computing its length in time (not in worked time). Tasks 2 lasts 5 and Task 1 35 days. Tasks one will take 20 (5+15) full days of resources 2 and 15 for Resource 1 Therefore Tasks 1 length will be 20 days. Implementing this means a lot of changes in the way resources and tasks are linked. Just warning to make things clear. Regards, Xavier Ordoquy. From waldemar@nxp.com Wed Jan 7 17:21:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C87C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:21:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AeGUn-0003cQ-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:25:25 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AeGUm-0000lp-S6 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:25:24 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:25:23 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> In-Reply-To: <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:21:07 -0000
Task 1 should be decomposed into two tasks with one-to-one relationship to resources.  Then, a simple click on the button does the job.

If not, the tool still works. It simply pushes tasks 2 behind task 1 (assuming the algorithm goes by the task priority and then by the order of tasks within the same priority).  If the manager has some insight into the nature of the joint work on task 1, he could adjust the chart. 

What's described as difficult requires proper decomposition of task 1, but that's something the user should do, not the tool.



Xavier Ordoquy wrote:
Richard Hult sloffed:
  
There are a few subtasks:

1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually.

2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and
planner-relation-arrow.c mostly).

3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load.

4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that
dependencies are handled.

5. Implement the algorithm (mainly
planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c).

If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good
starting points.
    

Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. Let me take the example with
two tasks for which of the two resources only one resource can work on
both. It points that a resource commitement in a task can change against
the time. This implies far more than it just sounds. Even if someone sets
the balance between the 2 tasks for the resource.

Task 1: ==================== (Resource 1, Resource 2)
Task 2: ===== (Resource 1)
             ^ (1)

(1) Resource 1 has finished task 2 on which he was working full time. He
now ca work on task 1 at 100%. Gantt chart will have to make the distinction
of before and after for computing its length in time (not in worked time).

Tasks 2 lasts 5 and Task 1 35 days.
Tasks one will take 20 (5+15) full days of resources 2 and 15 for Resource 1
Therefore Tasks 1 length will be 20 days.

Implementing this means a lot of changes in the way resources and tasks are
linked. Just warning to make things clear.

Regards,
Xavier Ordoquy.

_______________________________________________
Planner mailing list
Planner@lists.imendio.com
http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner
From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Wed Jan 7 17:38:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0401.wanadoo.fr (smtp4.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.27]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233AFC02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:38:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-4-140.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.48.125.140]) by mwinf0401.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 9ED845800130 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:42:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:42:55 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:38:24 -0000 On Wed, 2004-01-07 at 17:25, Waldemar Augustyn wrote: > Task 1 should be decomposed into two tasks with one-to-one > relationship to resources. Then, a simple click on the button does > the job. > > If not, the tool still works. It simply pushes tasks 2 behind task 1 > (assuming the algorithm goes by the task priority and then by the > order of tasks within the same priority). If the manager has some > insight into the nature of the joint work on task 1, he could adjust > the chart. > > What's described as difficult requires proper decomposition of task 1, > but that's something the user should do, not the tool. Well it can not always be decomposed. I'm thinking about experts that may have this sort of things to do. Pushing a task before the other would lead to letting the other resource on hold for 5 days which is not really acceptable. On a project with several tasks it can become really hard to move forth and back to notice those things. From cahanpm@operamail.com Wed Jan 7 17:55:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from spf13.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-67.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8E0C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:55:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from 205-158-62-68.outblaze.com (205-158-62-68.outblaze.com [205.158.62.68]) by spf13.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id B559F1801462 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:59:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 94770 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2004 16:59:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.74) by 205-158-62-153.outblaze.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2004 16:59:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 16267 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Jan 2004 16:59:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [213.120.90.59] by ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com with http for cahanpm@operamail.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:59:23 +0000 From: "Steve Evans" To: "Planner Project Manager" Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:59:23 +0000 Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies X-Originating-Ip: 213.120.90.59 X-Originating-Server: ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:55:07 -0000 Xavier Ordoquy wrote: > Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. Me neither! I think any form of automated resource levelling will be extremely complicated, and at best only give a rough schedule that the Project Manager can start from and work with. In practice I have only ever used the resource scheduling in Project Workbench (PMW) from Niku. Even though it's very sophisticated with the features such as front or back loading the effort, it frequently did strange things that would have to be manually corrected. I would favour the toolkit approach as the PM will always have to manually intervene in any automated schedule and anything that would make this easier would be better. Such things as moving tasks, reallocating resources and seeing the totals allocations per resource by period. PMW used a different model and maintained effort and duration separately - it didn't (at the time) have percentage allocation. For instance, imagine you had 2 6-hour tasks both allocated to the same resource. PMW would allocated 6 hours of task 1 and 2 hours of task 2 on day 1 and the remaining 4 hours of task 2 on day 2. Although I prefer this method to percent allocations, I would suppose that it would be a big change for Planner to adopt this model. Regards, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Xavier Ordoquy Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:53:09 +0100 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies > Richard Hult sloffed: > > There are a few subtasks: > > > > 1. Figure out how to display the dependency visually. > > > > 2. Implement the visual part (planner/src/planner-gantt-row.c and > > planner-relation-arrow.c mostly). > > > > 3. Come up with a good algorithm for leveling the resource load. > > > > 4. Add the dependency (called relation in the code) type everywhere that > > dependencies are handled. > > > > 5. Implement the algorithm (mainly > > planner/libplanner/mrp-task-manager.c). > > > > If people think that this is a good idea to do, I think 1 and 3 are good > > starting points. > > Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. Let me take the example with > two tasks for which of the two resources only one resource can work on > both. It points that a resource commitement in a task can change against > the time. This implies far more than it just sounds. Even if someone sets > the balance between the 2 tasks for the resource. > > Task 1: ==================== (Resource 1, Resource 2) > Task 2: ===== (Resource 1) > ^ (1) > > (1) Resource 1 has finished task 2 on which he was working full time. He > now ca work on task 1 at 100%. Gantt chart will have to make the distinction > of before and after for computing its length in time (not in worked time). > > Tasks 2 lasts 5 and Task 1 35 days. > Tasks one will take 20 (5+15) full days of resources 2 and 15 for Resource 1 > Therefore Tasks 1 length will be 20 days. > > Implementing this means a lot of changes in the way resources and tasks are > linked. Just warning to make things clear. > > Regards, > Xavier Ordoquy. > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner ---------------------------- Cahan Project Management Ltd ---------------------------- -- ___________________________________________________ Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.operamail.com, which allows you to send SMS through your mailbox. Powered by Outblaze From richard@imendio.com Wed Jan 7 18:06:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F5F1C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:06:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C908712BE0 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:08:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> References: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1073495328.4429.5262.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:08:48 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:06:19 -0000 ons 2004-01-07 klockan 17.59 skrev Steve Evans: > Xavier Ordoquy wrote: > > Well, again I'm not sure this is that easy. > > Me neither! I think any form of automated resource levelling will be extremely complicated, and at best only give a rough schedule that the Project Manager can start from and work with. Well, I was mostly referring to the framework for doing it, rather than a resource leveling algorithm. It would allow for e.g. something Brian's suggestion. We could have the two different kinds of dependencies, that would mostly differ visually, since many people don't like to create "fake" dependencies between tasks that are not really dependent. And a very simple algorithm could just try to very stupidly add such dependencies between tasks that are scheduled at the same time and assigned to the same resource. Maybe that would be too stupid to be useful? Would having just the manual "resource dependencies" be useful? /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From waldemar@nxp.com Wed Jan 7 19:27:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F108C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:27:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AeITE-0004vk-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:31:56 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AeITD-0000o5-9N for planner@lists.imendio.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:31:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3FFC509A.1020406@nxp.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:31:54 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies References: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> In-Reply-To: <20040107165925.16258.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:27:33 -0000 >PMW used a different model and maintained effort and duration separately - it didn't (at the time) have percentage allocation. For instance, imagine you had 2 6-hour tasks both allocated to the same resource. PMW would allocated 6 hours of task 1 and 2 hours of task 2 on day 1 and the remaining 4 hours of task 2 on day 2. > >Although I prefer this method to percent allocations, I would suppose that it would be a big change for Planner to adopt this model. > > Hmmm. This appears to be the same model. The Planner would do the same thing if the "Resource Units" were set to 100% (BTW, the Planner should label this column as %). It's just that the Planner offers to limit a resource to something less (or more for that matter) than 100% at a time. That percentage figure reflects the Manager's directive to the resource to split his/her time. The planner would not be fiddling with these settings. From gmoffatt@gt.rr.com Wed Jan 7 19:54:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.texas.rr.com [24.93.47.41]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1155C02E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:54:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.triplanitary (cpe-67-10-117-21.gt.rr.com [67.10.117.21]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i07IwJvV008247 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:58:20 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Moffatt To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:58:38 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> In-Reply-To: <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401071258.38915.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: gmoffatt@gt.rr.com, Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:54:01 -0000 The paradigm for resource leveling is to think of the activity as a box or container and the resources as solid cubes of dimension one unit - for convenience I think of these as res/act from the record names in p3. Manually it is convenient to print our a (large) time grid indicating the time, the activities in groups and the resources as short abbreviations (loading diagram). Programaticly the leveling just pushes everything forward against total float - like coins across the exchequer - using rules the scheduler must determine. Practically, only some resources are critical and when I level I choose only the most critical resources to level by computer. Just as the scheduling needs adjustment, so does the leveling, and having seen the computerized leveling I usually insert 'crew ties' for the critical resources and review using the loading diagram so i do not depend on the 'stupid' automatic process. Modern scheduling theory includes some sophisticated algorhythms (web search 'critical chain scheduling') but from what I can see all the fancy math seems just to choose the leveling rules for you. -- Registered Linux user #312657 From brian@simpleprojectmanagement.com Thu Jan 8 03:19:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB70C02E for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 03:19:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from sdn-ap-032txhousp0046.dialsprint.net ([158.254.224.46] helo=SimpleProjectManagement.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AePpX-0005bb-00; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:23:28 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 20:25:34 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) To: wsxyz6294@yahoo.com From: Brian Christensen In-Reply-To: <20040106110003.4A5B9C047@master.imendio.com> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Cc: planner@lists.imendio.com Subject: [Planner] Re: Planner Digest, Vol 3, Issue 5 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:19:07 -0000 >> Sheldon, >> >>> I'm trying out Planner for the first time today. It seems to work >>> very >>> well so far, but I have a >>> question. Is there any way for Planner 0.11 to implement dependencies >>> between tasks based on >>> (work) resource availability, or do I just have to manually create >>> task dependencies? >>> >>> Just in case I'm not sufficiently clear, I have a situation where one >>> "startup" task is a >>> predecessor of about 8 different tasks that are logically parallel. >>> However, all of the tasks are >>> assigned the same resource at 100% and Planner seems to be perfectly >>> happy scheduling all of the >>> tasks simultaneously, although the resource can't actually work at >>> 800% to do all of them in >>> parallel. >> >> This question goes back to the definition of what a dependency is. >> Most >> of the books say that a task A is dependent on a task B if task B >> can't >> start until task A is finished. However, even though the tasks are >> logically parallel, if the same person is going to do both tasks, that >> person will almost always have a preference in the order they are >> done. >> It is convenient to treat the tasks "as if" they were dependent and to >> define dependencies between them. >> >> It is better to define a "treat them as if" dependency than to let the >> tool define a random order for the tasks. This shows up most clearly >> when you are taking status from the team. Say your team member has >> been >> assigned tasks A, B, and C. that are logically parallel and so can be >> done in any order. Let's assume that the tasks will each take a week >> to complete. You let the computer assign an arbitrary order to the >> tasks and it comes up with C then B then A. What does your status look >> like if the person decides to complete task A first? You would have to >> report that task C is late and task A is early. You would also have to >> explain to your management and to your customer why it is not a >> problem >> to have a late task. Why create problems for yourself that can be >> avoided? > ... some snippage... > > I don't really see how this relates to my question, which was about > resource overcommitment. You asked whether there is a way in planner to define dependencies based on resource availability. The answer is "no". Planner only defines one kind of dependency that has to be used for all kinds of situations. The only controls you can set are whether a task should start on a specific date or after all of its prerequisites are complete. I was also trying to make the point that even if Planner did have an algorithm for automatically adjusting tasks based on resources you might be better off not using it. Microsoft Project has an option for doing this, but most project managers tell me that it is difficult for them to predict the kinds of changes the algorithm will make and difficult to get it to do what they really wanted it to do. The computer just didn't understand the situation as well as they did. They ended up backing out the changes (sometimes starting over) and then making resource adjustments by hand. The suggestion that Waldemar Augustyn made is the most sensible approach I have heard. Provide a tool kit of simple operations that the manager can use to adjust the schedule. Hopefully that's what Planner will provide in the future. > Perhaps most readers of this list are thinking > about software development projects and expect to a resource to be > capable of being 100% committed to multiple tasks at once. I was > thinking > of other situations where resources can not be overcommitted. For > example, > if the resource is a piece of equipment. Can it be in my office 100% of > time and in your office 100% of the time? You and I might have > logically > parallel tasks, but if both of our tasks require the equipment > resource, > they cannot procede in parallel (with 100% resource allocation), no > matter > what our manager might wish. > I accept that resource overcommitment should be allowed by the program, > but I would like to be able to make resources non-overcommitable. If I > have a non-overcommitable resource assigned to several logically > parallel > tasks, then the program might give me a choice: A) order the tasks > prefer- > entially, or B) allow the tasks to procede in parallel by dividing > (equally > or not) the resource commitment among the tasks, or C) some > combination of > A and B. My hope is that the program will make it easy to see an potential over commitment (perhaps color coding the tasks -- like many word processors have the option of underling possible misspelled words), but I hope that it doesn't start prompting me how to fix them. ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.SimpleProjectManagement.com (What everyone in your organization needs to know about project management.) From twanger@bluetwanger.de Tue Jan 13 01:50:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from web11.manitu.net (web11.manitu.net [217.11.48.111]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED38C048 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:50:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.1] (dsl-082-082-089-131.arcor-ip.net [82.82.89.131]) (authenticated) by web11.manitu.net (8.10.2-SOL3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i0D0tH813754; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:55:17 +0100 From: Markus Bertheau To: usenet In-Reply-To: <200401122340.44896.usenet@franksonlineportal.de> References: <200401122340.44896.usenet@franksonlineportal.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <1073955322.5077.72.camel@yarrow.bertheau.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:55:23 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:27:03 +0100 Cc: planner@lists.imendio.com, gnome-i18n@gnome.org, Kurt Maute Subject: [Planner] Re: Translation from Mr. Project into German language X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:50:42 -0000 =D0=92 =D0=9F=D0=BD=D0=B4, 12.01.2004, =D0=B2 23:40, usenet =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1= =88=D0=B5=D1=82: > Hi, >=20 > I am intrested to translate the manual of Mr. Project into German languag= e.=20 > Where I should download this and which file I should download. The software changed its name to Planner. http://planner.imendio.org/ You can download it along with the manual there: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/planner/0.11/planner-0.11.tar.bz2 The manual itself is planner-0.11/docs/user-guide/C/planner.xml But let someone else guide you on how do make sure your work integrates well with Planner. I've CCed the maintainer of the user-guide, Kurt Maute as well as the Planner mailing list. --=20 Markus Bertheau From waldemar@nxp.com Wed Jan 14 02:07:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 134BFC048 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:07:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1AgZaG-0004IG-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:12:36 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AgZaF-0005ul-GT for planner@lists.imendio.com; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:12:35 -0500 Message-ID: <40049782.4060004@nxp.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:12:34 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager References: <200401122340.44896.usenet@franksonlineportal.de> <1073955322.5077.72.camel@yarrow.bertheau.de> In-Reply-To: <1073955322.5077.72.camel@yarrow.bertheau.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Planner] Cost calculations X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:07:49 -0000 I have just noticed, Planner's cost calculation is not quite right. It appears, it misinterprets the resource "units" value. I thought the "units" figure is really the percentage of time a resource is expected (allowed) to work on a task. The default is 100, which I think should be labeled with a %. Here is what happens: A Task takes 3 days to finish. There is one resource allocated to it at 50% time and 45 cost. Planner properly calculates the task to take six days (because of 50% resource), but the cost is calculated at 540. I would think, it should be 3*8*45= 1080 (three days * 8 hours * 45 $/hour). Or, perhaps, 6*4*45=1080 (six days * 4 hours * 45 $/h). Same thing with another task. It takes 5 days to finish, the allocated resource works 5% of time at cost of 30. Planner properly calculates the task to take 100 days to finish, but the cost is calculated at 60. I would think, it should be 5*8*30=1200. Or, 100*(8/20)*30=1200. I am using version 0.11. From ramirez@johalla.de Fri Jan 16 10:37:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from maus.johalla.de (evision30.do.revmap.vianetworks.de [194.77.215.62]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 062BCC047 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:37:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (begall@[10.3.4.13]) (authenticated bits=0) by maus.johalla.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i0G9g56D000491 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:42:10 +0100 Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Christoph Begall To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Message-Id: <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:37:05 -0000 X-Original-Date: 16 Jan 2004 10:41:34 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:37:05 -0000 Hi, I just checked: It would be debian fault if there would be not the original source distribution on there site, but even in the tarball from http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/planner/0.11/planner-0.11.tar.gz I could not find the docs/sql directory. Upto now it seems to be only in CVS. Am Die, 2004-01-06 um 18.05 schrieb M=E1rio Filipe: > Hi >=20 > On Ter, 2004-01-06 at 16:45, Richard Hult wrote: > =20 > > It's distributed with the source code. In a coming release we should > > install it as well, and more importantly, add database setup code to th= e > > GUI so you don't need to do that manually.=20 >=20 > I didn't get it in my source (wich I got from Debian, instead of the > official source). >=20 > =20 > > Attaching the schema for now, >=20 > Thanks > --=20 > Mario Filipe=20 > mjnf@uevora.pt > http://neptuno.sc.uevora.pt/~mjnf=20 > ---- >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner --=20 Christoph Begall, happy do be here From richard@imendio.com Fri Jan 16 10:40:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01684C050 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:40:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1323B12C12 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:42:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1074246202.8306.1522.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:43:23 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:40:40 -0000 fre 2004-01-16 klockan 10.41 skrev Christoph Begall: > Hi, > > I just checked: > It would be debian fault if there would be not the original source > distribution on there site, but even in the tarball from > http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/planner/0.11/planner-0.11.tar.gz > I could not find the docs/sql directory. > > Upto now it seems to be only in CVS. Sorry, what I mean to say was that it will be distributed. It was added to the dist a while ago in CVS but not in a release yet. /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From ramirez@johalla.de Sat Jan 17 21:30:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from maus.johalla.de (evision30.do.revmap.vianetworks.de [194.77.215.62]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09835C04F for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:30:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from knuth (p50903BC3.dip.t-dialin.net [80.144.59.195]) (authenticated bits=0) by maus.johalla.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i0HKZZ6E025532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:35:37 +0100 Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Christoph Begall To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1074246202.8306.1522.camel@carrot> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> <1074246202.8306.1522.camel@carrot> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1074372318.866.6.camel@knuth> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:45:18 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:30:30 -0000 Would it be difficult to add the information to the planner website? And where the CVS-repository can be found? Am Fr, den 16.01.2004 schrieb Richard Hult um 10:43: > fre 2004-01-16 klockan 10.41 skrev Christoph Begall: > > Hi, > > > > I just checked: > > It would be debian fault if there would be not the original source > > distribution on there site, but even in the tarball from > > http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/planner/0.11/planner-0.11.tar.gz > > I could not find the docs/sql directory. > > > > Upto now it seems to be only in CVS. > > Sorry, what I mean to say was that it will be distributed. It was added > to the dist a while ago in CVS but not in a release yet. > > /Richard -- Christoph Begall From richard@imendio.com Sat Jan 17 21:33:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 844C6C04F for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:33:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A1812C0A for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:35:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] SQL schema for planner From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1074372318.866.6.camel@knuth> References: <1073406554.20609.12.camel@nameless> <1073407504.4429.4684.camel@carrot> <1073408744.20565.16.camel@nameless> <1074246100.3051.23.camel@toa3> <1074246202.8306.1522.camel@carrot> <1074372318.866.6.camel@knuth> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1074371895.8306.3636.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:38:15 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:33:10 -0000 lör 2004-01-17 klockan 21.45 skrev Christoph Begall: > Would it be difficult to add the information to the planner website? > And where the CVS-repository can be found? Not at all. I've been meaning to do that for a while, I'll do it right away. Thanks for reminding me :) /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From ramirez@johalla.de Mon Jan 19 00:01:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from maus.johalla.de (evision30.do.revmap.vianetworks.de [194.77.215.62]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC55C04F for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:01:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from knuth (p5090241E.dip.t-dialin.net [80.144.36.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by maus.johalla.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i0IN666E011484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:06:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [Planner] Resource dependencies From: Christoph Begall To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> References: <20040106181456.19957.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <1073471299.4429.5203.camel@carrot> <1073490789.481.18.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> <3FFC32F3.5070402@nxp.com> <1073493775.493.22.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1074467756.897.9.camel@knuth> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:15:56 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:01:03 -0000 What about having the "leveling tool" generate an order (maybe taking some points into account like priority or importance of a task or even the size of tasks (I would like that because big tasks normally show me that there is a risk or I have not elaborated a thing enough)) This order should be viewable only on request (like a grid in the background of dia). This would be an easy way of making resource overuse visible: In the normal diagram the project could be done in much shorter time than in the automatic alignment, because the tool would "see" that some resource makes it impossible to do things in parallel. Am Mi, den 07.01.2004 schrieb Xavier Ordoquy um 17:42: > On Wed, 2004-01-07 at 17:25, Waldemar Augustyn wrote: > > Task 1 should be decomposed into two tasks with one-to-one > > relationship to resources. Then, a simple click on the button does > > the job. > > > > If not, the tool still works. It simply pushes tasks 2 behind task 1 > > (assuming the algorithm goes by the task priority and then by the > > order of tasks within the same priority). If the manager has some > > insight into the nature of the joint work on task 1, he could adjust > > the chart. > > > > What's described as difficult requires proper decomposition of task 1, > > but that's something the user should do, not the tool. > > Well it can not always be decomposed. I'm thinking about experts that > may have this sort of things to do. > > Pushing a task before the other would lead to letting the other resource > on hold for 5 days which is not really acceptable. > On a project with several tasks it can become really hard to move forth > and back to notice those things. > > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner -- Christoph Begall From lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net Fri Jan 23 10:41:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CE1C047 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:41:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from [81.129.4.88] (helo=openmutual.net) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AjxuS-000741-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:47:28 +0000 Message-ID: <4010EDB0.6090903@openmutual.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:47:28 +0000 From: "lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-gb MIME-Version: 1.0 To: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.7.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:41:55 -0000 I've used Microsoft Project a lot including using it in a CMM Level 2 environment. Before you shoot me down for mentioning any Microsoft product, MS project is a good general purpose project planning tool. Not the best of breed with its resource levelling but still very good. Pick up a cheap copy of MS Project 98 to get an idea of the features; its bloated and Project 2000/2003 goes even further but I thought I'll try Planner (downloaded from web and did a ./configure, make, make install which was fine on Mandrake 9.2 and just had to add a few library packages), and see how usable it is for a small project; (My actual House cleanup prior to sale right now - so far 90 tasks with 4 resources and 10 summary, 5 milestones). I thought I'd give you my first impressions whilst I read your roadmap for 1.0 as it helps you confirm thoughts on whats going into 1.0 1) Defining links through using the click-drag is handy but I'm also very used to selecting (ctrl-click) two tasks and then clicking a "Link" button. You have the Unlink button but not Link. The main issue is click-dragging over many pages or dates: if you zoom out to see the whole project then the task bar isn't big enough in the gantt chart to click this (it just re-sizes the task). 2) Adding resources to tasks takes a long time. If a whole pile of tasks could by selected (ctrl-click) and then right-mouse or a suitable menu option had "Set Resource..." This will also be very important with task levelling. 3) MPX file format import AND export. Microsoft Project 98 was the last MS project to have this as an export. See http://www.microsoft.com/office/project/prk/2000/Five/67ct_2.htm Many other apps rely on this MPX format and may not all have migrated to MPP or MPD. May be nice to help people interoperate with Planner easily. MPX is not an XML but its a fairly nice easy to read ASCII and should be easy to pre-process into the Planner/MrProject schema. The MPXJ project (LGPL) has a lot more of this, though it is Java. See, http://www.tapsterrock.com/mpxj/ 4) Unable to easily view resource usage by day. Even when you have a levelling capability, when you run this in MS Project it could sometimes completely screw up your project shoving tasks out by years as it tried to resolve resource use and constraints. Thus many people manually level projects. You use a view that has the Resources on the left and Dates on the top with usage (0->100 for OK and then >100 for not OK e.g. font in RED) in the intersect. Thus if levelling isn't trusted or not the expected algorithm then viewing what resources get used by date is a manual compromise. 5) Resource Initials - these are a handy extra field because names can clutter up gantt charts (especially when a couple of people are doing one task). If a user has initials defined then use this else use the resource name is the basic algorithm which I think MS Project uses. 6) Task completion: Incrementing in 1% at a time is too low !. The tumbler needs to increment in +/- 10% at a time but the field could be manually set to an exact percentage. MOst people say a task is say 50% or nearly (i.e. 90% complete). A joke: 90% of a project takes 90% of the time. The remaining 10% takes the other half. Either way, no one refers to 51% complete unless for fun. 7) The program name of 'Planner' seems dangerously generic and I feel that it would end up being contested somewhere for its name. Maybe something like 'Gantto' and then pun its name by using a cat (gatto in Italian) with a gantt chart for stripes as a logo but IANAA (I Am Not An Artist). Plus it has a 'g' in the name for GNOME and gantto.com/net/org currently free I think (probably find its a swear word in some language !) ps: also the file name is was *.mrproject but can we use 3 char thus change to say *.gpo as I think thats free. 8) and finally - though by asking this question I'm probably showing my ignorance - how do I start to add code to Planner ? I'm starting back into programming work (and just restarted my degree in CS) so I can CVS the whole lot and can easily browse the source but has anyone tried using Anjuta and Glade with this project ? or is it all hand-coded C and I'm just spoiled from working with the likes of Eclipse and VC ? 9) Other things: Baselines: These are essential for any CMM metrics to show how actuals deviate from estimates. I use these a lot. Pert charts: never used them much but others do a lot. Sub projects: yes I do like these for big stuff but not when there was milestone constraints from within one sub-project and another. I do find it handy when doing e.g. software deployments that are global and thus sub-project each geographic region so you can have a global overview of progress by region. I'm thinking task that is a file/hyperlink to another Planner file and to parse that file and pick out ANY other task. I suspect that Planner could do this quite well given the nice XML structure to its own files. Shared resources (and shared calendars across projects: Tried this when we were doing CMM assessment and found it useful but back then using MS Project 98 and so it wasn't very friendly. Collaboration: This would be real handy. If a structured email message could be sent and replied to and have the Planner pick out the answers in the mails and update itself. Really what things like listservers do with the registration and reply logic. Split tasks: handy for when you just want to make a task drag on in background as a low priority. Thus when you show the gantt to someone you can still say you're doing it but other tasks take priority. and can only spend a little time now and then on it ;) Rgds. Lincoln From richard@imendio.com Fri Jan 23 11:07:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E8DC047 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:07:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4091612BE8 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:09:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <4010EDB0.6090903@openmutual.net> References: <4010EDB0.6090903@openmutual.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1074852756.7103.20.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:12:36 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:07:24 -0000 fre 2004-01-23 klockan 10.47 skrev lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net: Hi, > 1) Defining links through using the click-drag is handy > but I'm also very used to selecting (ctrl-click) two tasks > and then clicking a "Link" button. You have the Unlink > button but not Link. The main issue is click-dragging > over many pages or dates: if you zoom out to see the whole > project then the task bar isn't big enough in the gantt > chart to click this (it just re-sizes the task). > > 2) Adding resources to tasks takes a long time. If a whole pile > of tasks could by selected (ctrl-click) and then right-mouse > or a suitable menu option had "Set Resource..." This will > also be very important with task levelling. Could you please file these as bug reports/feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=planner (a separate bug for each issue) Both these should be pretty easy to implement, by the way. > 3) MPX file format import AND export. Microsoft Project 98 > was the last MS project to have this as an export. See > http://www.microsoft.com/office/project/prk/2000/Five/67ct_2.htm > > Many other apps rely on this MPX format and may not all have > migrated to MPP or MPD. May be nice to help people interoperate > with Planner easily. MPX is not an XML but its a fairly nice > easy to read ASCII and should be easy to pre-process into the > Planner/MrProject schema. The MPXJ project (LGPL) has a lot > more of this, though it is Java. See, http://www.tapsterrock.com/mpxj/ This would be a perfect project for someone to help out with. It would be pretty easy since it's a pretty much standalone project. Any takers? I can help you get started. > 4) Unable to easily view resource usage by day. Even when > you have a levelling capability, when you run this in > MS Project it could sometimes completely screw up your > project shoving tasks out by years as it tried to resolve > resource use and constraints. Thus many people manually > level projects. You use a view that has the Resources on the > left and Dates on the top with usage (0->100 for OK > and then >100 for not OK e.g. font in RED) in the intersect. > Thus if levelling isn't trusted or not the expected > algorithm then viewing what resources get used by date is > a manual compromise. Xavier, the resource usage view you're working on can show this, right? > 5) Resource Initials - these are a handy extra field because > names can clutter up gantt charts (especially when a couple of > people are doing one task). If a user has initials defined then > use this else use the resource name is the basic algorithm > which I think MS Project uses. > > 6) Task completion: Incrementing in 1% at a time is too low !. > The tumbler needs to increment in +/- 10% at a time but > the field could be manually set to an exact percentage. MOst > people say a task is say 50% or nearly (i.e. 90% complete). > A joke: > 90% of a project takes 90% of the time. The remaining 10% takes > the other half. > Either way, no one refers to 51% complete unless for fun. Both good points, please file bugs. > 7) The program name of 'Planner' seems dangerously generic > and I feel that it would end up being contested somewhere for > its name. Maybe something like 'Gantto' and then pun its name > by using a cat (gatto in Italian) with a gantt chart for > stripes as a logo but IANAA (I Am Not An Artist). Plus it has > a 'g' in the name for GNOME and gantto.com/net/org currently > free I think (probably find its a swear word in some language !) > ps: also the file name is was *.mrproject but can we > use 3 char thus change to say *.gpo as I think thats free. We can always tack something on before or after Planner if necessary. There's a bug report about the file extension, although personally I would prefer .planner. > 8) and finally - though by asking this question I'm probably > showing my ignorance - how do I start to add code to Planner ? > I'm starting back into programming work (and just restarted > my degree in CS) so I can CVS the whole lot and can easily > browse the source but has anyone tried using Anjuta and Glade > with this project ? or is it all hand-coded C and I'm just > spoiled from working with the likes of Eclipse and VC ? We use glade for all UI parts. I personally use emacs but I'm sure you can use any editor to write the code. > 9) Other things: > Baselines: These are essential for any CMM metrics to > show how actuals deviate from estimates. I use > these a lot. > Pert charts: never used them much but others do a lot. > Sub projects: yes I do like these for big stuff but not > when there was milestone constraints from within > one sub-project and another. I do find it handy > when doing e.g. software deployments that are > global and thus sub-project each geographic region > so you can have a global overview of progress > by region. I'm thinking task that is a file/hyperlink > to another Planner file and to parse that file > and pick out ANY other task. I suspect that Planner > could do this quite well given the nice XML structure > to its own files. > Shared resources (and shared calendars across projects: > Tried this when we were doing CMM assessment and > found it useful but back then using MS Project 98 > and so it wasn't very friendly. > Collaboration: This would be real handy. If a structured > email message could be sent and replied to and have > the Planner pick out the answers in the mails and > update itself. Really what things like listservers > do with the registration and reply logic. > Split tasks: handy for when you just want to make a task > drag on in background as a low priority. Thus > when you show the gantt to someone you can still > say you're doing it but other tasks take priority. > and can only spend a little time now and then on it ;) Good stuff but after 1.0, in my opinion. We need to get a stable useful simple application out soon :) /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From eisen@builtonlinux.com Fri Jan 23 11:16:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from dunhackin.org (66-98-222-120.acornhosting.net [66.98.222.120]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2C1C04F for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:16:57 +0100 (CET) Received: by dunhackin.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 3704E94312; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:22:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dunhackin.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32CFC4445A1 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:22:29 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:22:28 -0600 (CST) From: Hal Eisen X-X-Sender: eisen@dunhackin.org To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) In-Reply-To: <1074852756.7103.20.camel@carrot> Message-ID: X-Operating-System: Linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:56:20 +0100 X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:16:58 -0000 > > 3) MPX file format import AND export. Microsoft Project 98 > > was the last MS project to have this as an export. See > > http://www.microsoft.com/office/project/prk/2000/Five/67ct_2.htm > > > > Many other apps rely on this MPX format and may not all have > > migrated to MPP or MPD. May be nice to help people interoperate > > with Planner easily. MPX is not an XML but its a fairly nice > > easy to read ASCII and should be easy to pre-process into the > > Planner/MrProject schema. The MPXJ project (LGPL) has a lot > > more of this, though it is Java. See, http://www.tapsterrock.com/mpxj/ > > This would be a perfect project for someone to help out with. It would > be pretty easy since it's a pretty much standalone project. Any takers? > I can help you get started. I'll take this one. Let's talk about it off-line. Hal -- Stop wasting money with Microsoft Windows! Ask me how... http://www.builtonlinux.com - Built On Linux (IT Consulting) From waldemar@nxp.com Fri Jan 23 16:35:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FDF4C04F for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:35:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1Ak25f-0002A3-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:15:19 -0500 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ak25e-0001aL-2o for planner@lists.imendio.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:15:18 -0500 Message-ID: <40112C74.30806@nxp.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:15:16 -0500 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:35:52 -0000

Hal Eisen wrote: 
  
3) MPX file format import AND export. Microsoft Project 98
    was the last MS project to have this as an export. See
http://www.microsoft.com/office/project/prk/2000/Five/67ct_2.htm

   Many other apps rely on this MPX format and may not all have
   migrated to MPP or MPD. May be nice to help people interoperate
   with Planner easily. MPX is not an XML but its a fairly nice
   easy to read ASCII and should be easy to pre-process into the
   Planner/MrProject schema. The MPXJ project (LGPL) has a lot
   more of this, though it is Java. See, http://www.tapsterrock.com/mpxj/
      
This would be a perfect project for someone to help out with. It would
be pretty easy since it's a pretty much standalone project. Any takers?
It would be best if Planner could filter these types in the "open" dialog box and did the necessary conversion when selected. Similarly, the "save as" dialog should offer these types and the implied conversions when selected.  A simple "save" should use the format selected during "open".
I can help you get started.
    

I'll take this one.  Let's talk about it off-line.

Hal

--
Stop wasting money with Microsoft Windows!  Ask me how...
http://www.builtonlinux.com - Built On Linux (IT Consulting)

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From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Fri Jan 23 17:37:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0801.wanadoo.fr (smtp8.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.23]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D540CC051 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:37:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-2-196.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.124.196]) by mwinf0801.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id F03301800175 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] My first impressions of Planner 0.11 (MrProject) From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <1074852756.7103.20.camel@carrot> References: <4010EDB0.6090903@openmutual.net> <1074852756.7103.20.camel@carrot> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1074876156.492.9.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:42:37 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:37:03 -0000 Once upon the time Richard Hult sloff: > > 4) Unable to easily view resource usage by day. Even when > > you have a levelling capability, when you run this in > > MS Project it could sometimes completely screw up your > > project shoving tasks out by years as it tried to resolve > > resource use and constraints. Thus many people manually > > level projects. You use a view that has the Resources on the > > left and Dates on the top with usage (0->100 for OK > > and then >100 for not OK e.g. font in RED) in the intersect. > > Thus if levelling isn't trusted or not the expected > > algorithm then viewing what resources get used by date is > > a manual compromise. > > Xavier, the resource usage view you're working on can show this, right? This is the idea. I think I fixed some bugs about it and it may worth start testing it. Shall I change the --enable-ttable to --disable-resource-usage and include it by default in the built ? I'll try to look at the other points. Some seems to take little time to get really nice result. Especially the task link and resource assignment. Xavier Ordoquy. From gmoffatt@gt.rr.com Fri Jan 23 18:06:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.texas.rr.com [24.93.47.41]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DB26C051 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:06:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.triplanitary (cpe-67-10-117-21.gt.rr.com [67.10.117.21]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0NHC7vV000324 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:12:10 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Moffatt To: Planner Project Manager Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:13:28 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401231113.28391.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> Subject: [Planner] OPENSCHED project scheduling software X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: gmoffatt@gt.rr.com, Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:06:37 -0000 I also dont want to get shot for bringing up potetially controversial subjects but this looks interesting and these folks have some serious clientel - http://mtechIT.com/download/sched/ -wouldnt it be nice if they had a gui front end and you had their corporate support. Just a thought. -- Registered Linux user #312657 From rhwood@mac.com Fri Jan 23 18:54:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73D8C051 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:54:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (h-66-134-129-30.mclnva23.dynamic.covad.net[66.134.129.30]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2004012317594011200ote2le> (Authid: rhwood); Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:59:41 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <200401231113.28391.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> References: <200401231113.28391.gmoffatt@gt.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Randall Wood Subject: Re: [Planner] OPENSCHED project scheduling software Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:59:29 -0500 To: Planner Project Manager X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:54:10 -0000 It seems that mTech stopped working on OpenSched in late 1999, and that the project moved to sourceforge.net in 2000. (http://opensched.sourceforge.net) The project is active, but the maintainers recommend that users looking for a GUI use MrProject instead. Thought you might want to know. On Jan 23, 2004, at 12:13 PM, Gary Moffatt wrote: > I also dont want to get shot for bringing up potetially controversial > subjects > but this looks interesting and these folks have some serious clientel - > http://mtechIT.com/download/sched/ -wouldnt it be nice if they had a > gui > front end and you had their corporate support. Just a thought. > -- > Registered Linux user #312657 > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner > -- Randall Wood rhwood@mac.com "The rules are simple: The ball is round. The game lasts 90 minutes. All the rest is just philosophy." From lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net Sat Jan 24 14:00:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA98C052 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:00:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from [81.129.4.88] (helo=openmutual.net) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AkNTw-0004US-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:05:49 +0000 Message-ID: <40126DAC.30005@openmutual.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:05:48 +0000 From: "lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-gb MIME-Version: 1.0 To: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.7.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Planner] Reporting within Planner : whats the story with MrProjext ? X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:00:20 -0000 I miss the reporting that MS Project has but I notice that MrProjext ( http://mrprojext.sourceforge.net/ ) has a lot of nice reporting stuff (albeit command line driven. Once you get into big projects you need a nice and easy way of reporting on such things like my personal favourite: Should have started tasks !, as well as Should have finished tasks ;( Sounds like the MrProjext could easily be GUI'd from within Planner and then the data and parameters passed (hidden from the user) to MrProjext. The temporary files or result from MrProjext is then pretty-printed back to the user for display and printing. The MrProjext also looks like it could do the dirty work for exporting to Palm or iCal formats. This would be real nice if my Palm pilot could get loaded with Todo items as well as the Calendar loaded with milestones. Rgds. Lincoln. From richard@imendio.com Sat Jan 24 14:39:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35CA9C052 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:39:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se (as9-1-4.hn.g.bonet.se [217.215.47.49]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A18112C0A for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:41:02 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Reporting within Planner : whats the story with MrProjext ? From: Richard Hult To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <40126DAC.30005@openmutual.net> References: <40126DAC.30005@openmutual.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Organization: Imendo Message-Id: <1074951862.7103.41.camel@carrot> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:44:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:39:07 -0000 lör 2004-01-24 klockan 14.05 skrev lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net: > I miss the reporting that MS Project has but I notice > that MrProjext ( http://mrprojext.sourceforge.net/ ) > has a lot of nice reporting stuff (albeit command > line driven. It would be great if we could achieve the same result but in a more maintainable way, i.e. through a report system in planner. It could perhaps be done through xsl. I'm not too happy with using perl for that purpose. It would also be nice to have a more generic framework for exporting data to other formats. The current HTML output uses xslt to transform the xml to html, and that module could be made more generic, by allowing it to use different stylesheets. /Richard -- Richard Hult richard@imendio.com Imendio http://www.imendio.com From Axel.Missbach@t-online.de Sat Jan 24 09:33:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com (mailout04.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.18]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A045C051 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:33:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from fwd01.aul.t-online.de by mailout04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1AkJIY-0002Dx-01; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:37:46 +0100 Received: from t-online.de (VyFeouZSYelftZ9ubEZ3Sj9RAWFQTLNOKK2U8TFP-gB3IxhoZioXoQ@[193.159.70.204]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 1AkJIP-20gIsq0; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:37:37 +0100 Message-ID: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:37:24 +0100 From: Axel.Missbach@t-online.de (Axel Missbach) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: de, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: planner@lists.imendio.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Seen: false X-ID: VyFeouZSYelftZ9ubEZ3Sj9RAWFQTLNOKK2U8TFP-gB3IxhoZioXoQ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:07:27 +0100 Subject: [Planner] glib-2.0.pc X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:33:15 -0000 i'd like to try planner but running "./configure" i get the message: checking for glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 ... Package glib-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. Perhaps you should add the directory containing `glib-2.0.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable No package 'glib-2.0' found configure: error: Library requirements ( glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 ) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them. -My problem is, that there is a selfwriten (perhaps wrong) glib-2.0.pc file in the pkg-config-path and/or the glib-library has no path like /usr/lib/glib2 (running on suse8.2). From micke@imendio.com Sat Jan 24 16:10:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from zzz.mikan.net (zzz.mikan.net [193.15.198.188]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53705C052 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:10:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from chili.home.hallendal.net (h41n2c1o1035.bredband.skanova.com [81.227.17.41]) by zzz.mikan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BCEF12C0A for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:12:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] glib-2.0.pc From: Mikael Hallendal To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> References: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Organization: Imendio HB Message-Id: <1074957364.5390.10.camel@chili.home.hallendal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:16:05 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:10:23 -0000 lör 2004-01-24 klockan 09.37 skrev Axel Missbach: > i'd like to try planner but running "./configure" i get the message: > > checking for > glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 > gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 > gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 > libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 > gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 > ... Package glib-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. > Perhaps you should add the directory containing `glib-2.0.pc' > to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable > No package 'glib-2.0' found > > configure: error: Library requirements ( > glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 > gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 > gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 > libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 > gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 > ) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable > if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them. > > > -My problem is, that there is a selfwriten (perhaps wrong) glib-2.0.pc > file in the pkg-config-path and/or the glib-library has no path like > /usr/lib/glib2 (running on suse8.2). I'm not understanding fully your problem. Have you written your own glib-2.0.pc file, and if so, why? Install the -devel packages of all of the above and they should contain the .pc files. Regards, Mikael Hallendal -- Mikael Hallendal micke@imendio.com Imendio HB http://www.imendio.com Phone: +46 (0)709 718 918 From rainer.Lay@informatik.uni-erlangen.de Sat Jan 24 16:17:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from faui61.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui61.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.36.61]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962CDC052 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:17:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui67 [131.188.36.67]) by faui61.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (8.9.1a/8.1.5-FAU) with ESMTP id QAA15425; Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:23:22 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <40128DE9.90000@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:23:21 +0100 From: Rainer Lay User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040112 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] glib-2.0.pc References: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> In-Reply-To: <40122EC4.4060900@t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Lay@informatik.uni-erlangen.de, Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:17:44 -0000 Hi Axel, für SuSE 9.0 gibts hier http://packman.links2linux.org/?action=362 ein rpm für planner. Gruß Rainer Axel Missbach wrote: > i'd like to try planner but running "./configure" i get the message: > > checking for > glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 > gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 > gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 > libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 > gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 > ... Package glib-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. > Perhaps you should add the directory containing `glib-2.0.pc' > to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable > No package 'glib-2.0' found > > configure: error: Library requirements ( > glib-2.0 >= 2.0.4 > gobject-2.0 gmodule-2.0 > gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.3 > libgnomecanvas-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.0.1 > libglade-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libbonoboui-2.0 >= 2.0.0 > libgnomeprintui-2.2 >= 2.1.9 > gnome-vfs-2.0 >= 2.0.2 > ) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable > if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them. > > > -My problem is, that there is a selfwriten (perhaps wrong) glib-2.0.pc > file in the pkg-config-path and/or the glib-library has no path like > /usr/lib/glib2 (running on suse8.2). > > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner From jos@xos037.xos.nl Sun Jan 25 22:57:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from simba.xos.nl (simba.xos.nl [212.26.207.226]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF0EC047 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:57:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from xos037.xos.nl (xos037.xos.nl [212.26.207.37]) by simba.xos.nl (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13666 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:02:56 +0100 Received: from xos037.xos.nl (jos@localhost) by xos037.xos.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id i0PM35830066 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:03:05 +0100 Message-Id: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> To: planner@lists.imendio.com Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:03:05 +0100 From: Jos Vos Subject: [Planner] Opensched and resource scheduling X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:57:22 -0000 Hi, I just heart about the revival of MrProject as Planner. I also saw in the archives that someone mentioned Opensched a few days ago. In relation to this: my biggest problem with MrProject was that it didn't seem to do resource scheduling, so people easily worked on three tasks in parallel for 100% of their time. Has this been improved in the meantime? Is it planned? I never understood how people could use a planning tool that couldn't do at least that, which caused my disappointement for MrProject, although I tried it a few times (the last time with 0.9.1, IIRC) and I still hope one day I'll be able to use it. Cheers, -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From xordoquy@wanadoo.fr Mon Jan 26 00:16:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from mwinf0201.wanadoo.fr (smtp2.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.29]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5EE0C047 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:16:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from allhosts (APuteaux-107-1-4-68.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.48.125.68]) by mwinf0201.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 34A6130003B8 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:22:21 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Planner] Opensched and resource scheduling From: Xavier Ordoquy To: Planner Project Manager In-Reply-To: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> References: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gnome Message-Id: <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:22:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:16:37 -0000 On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 23:03, Jos Vos wrote: > Hi, Hi > In relation to this: my biggest problem with MrProject was that > it didn't seem to do resource scheduling, so people easily worked > on three tasks in parallel for 100% of their time. This point has also been discussed on the mailing list ([Planner] Resource dependencies). As far as I remember it ended up in the fact that resources can be used above 100% and that resource usage shall not be compted by the application because it may lead to an infinite number of possibilities. However I almost finished correcting the majors bugs on the resources usage (the former timetable) which will offer you to view the resource load against the time and enable you to move task to reduce load. On another hand I *may* start working on a prototype to compute resource plan and add load constraints. > Has this been improved in the meantime? Is it planned? I never > understood how people could use a planning tool that couldn't do > at least that, which caused my disappointement for MrProject, Again, lemme take the example I've used before. I got 2 resources (R1 and R2) and two tasks (T1 and T2). T1 is 35 worked days long and T2 only 5. R2 can work on both but R1 can only work on T1. Resources may not be used more than 100%. So, how do you expect the application to solve that ? You can choose 1] R2 work full time on T2 and then switch on T1. This will make T2 take 5 days and T1 being 20 days (5 (R1) + 2*15 (R1+R2)). 2] R2 work half time on T1 and T2. This will make T2 last 10 (5/0.5) days and T1 20 days ( 10 (R1) + 5 (R2) + 2*10 (R1+R2) ) You can vary that as much as you want. You can't either set the percentage of work on a task before the computing. If you consider my previous example in the middle of a project, any task glitch will false the all planning and it may finish in having a resource used at 50% because you've set it this way. Consider you have this: days: 0----10----20----30 T0: ====== (R1) T0': ====== (R2) T1: ------======= (R1,R2) (depends on T0) T2: ------ (R2,50%) (depends on T0') Now imagine you just found that there's no need of TO' because it's something the customer doesn't want to any longer. You'll now have: days: 0----10----20----30 T0: ====== (R1) T1: ------======= (R1,R2) (depends on T0) T2: ------ (R2,50%) Now if you consider someone should either be allocated 100% to a task you're wrong with experts that have various tasks that doesn't take them full time (like those that get halftime with a crew and halftime with another within a project). Sharing time as (100/number of tasks) is also wrong because it may expand the critical path (examples are left as exercices ;) Therefore it was decided that planner will not manage resource by itself (at least in the near future) but will try to provide an accurate view to plan the resource load. (Do you agree on this point richard and mickael ?) The resource usage should be included in the next release (0.12) and will help gather opinion on it to make it better then. Regards, Xavier Ordoquy. From lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net Mon Jan 26 01:57:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C746C047 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:57:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from [81.129.4.88] (helo=openmutual.net) by protactinium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1Akv9u-0002Ax-00 for planner@lists.imendio.com; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:03:23 +0000 Message-ID: <4014675A.7050709@openmutual.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:03:22 +0000 From: "lincoln.phipps@openmutual.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-gb MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Opensched and resource scheduling References: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> In-Reply-To: <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.7.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:57:38 -0000 Xavier , yup I'd agree that in the initial instance if you can at least show the allocation and allow us to easily allocate resources to tasks then thats the first big step. The actual scheduling is a complicated combinatorial/constraint optimisation satisfaction problem as it'll grow to meet peoples expectations of what a project scheduler should do. The trouble with hard coding in C/C++ is that when Planner 1.X needs its scheduler upgraded to handle more wishes then it gets harder and harder to handle the new constraints. I'm thinking that this would need to be looked at from the point of view of what commercial schedulers like ILOG or Koalog, or GPL/LGPL solutions of the likes of Cheddar ( http://beru.univ-brest.fr/~singhoff/cheddar/ ) or StarFLIP++ ( http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/proj/StarFLIP/StarFLIP.htm ) are trying to solve. Anyone know of others ? I bet we could all work out the constraints we would like to see in projects, e.g. rules like -No more than X persons on a task, -Schedule Time Only within slack, -Person works on no more than X tasks, -Person works no more then X% on a task, -No more than X% or X people allocated from a group, -Task uses people only from X group, -Task start is between A and B (with flat or normal arrival distribution), - etc etc etc... the last is very much real-world and so our scheduler would have to resolve fuzzy constraints like a Task start is between A and B dates and you may have 1 or 2 workers available because we all know this is very much real life when people promise to be ready but are not and goods may arrive within a window. Some constraints would be set on the Task, some on the Resource and some on the Project preferences. Given these constraints, the resources, and the tasks then produce a schedule not by coding within Planner but by transforming the inputs and feeding to another program, then taking that other programs output and feeding back the result to the project (all hidden from the user). The result is simply a new list of Task start/end times and resource allocation and usage which Planner should have no trouble in updating its GUI. So I feel that scheduling *could* be quite easy if we could identify a suitable 3rd party (but LGPL/GPL'd) tool, export our sets and describe the constraints in the language required by the scheduler. Does anyone have experience with any GPL/LGPL schedulers ? or know how they are feed with data and constraints ?. The cheddar one looks interesting as its XML input based and GPL and seems like an active project. Lincoln. Xavier Ordoquy wrote: > On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 23:03, Jos Vos wrote: > >>Hi, > > > Hi > > >>In relation to this: my biggest problem with MrProject was that >>it didn't seem to do resource scheduling, so people easily worked >>on three tasks in parallel for 100% of their time. > > > This point has also been discussed on the mailing list ([Planner] > Resource dependencies). > As far as I remember it ended up in the fact that resources can be used > above 100% and that resource usage shall not be compted by the > application because it may lead to an infinite number of possibilities. > > However I almost finished correcting the majors bugs on the resources > usage (the former timetable) which will offer you to view the resource > load against the time and enable you to move task to reduce load. > > On another hand I *may* start working on a prototype to compute resource > plan and add load constraints. > > >>Has this been improved in the meantime? Is it planned? I never >>understood how people could use a planning tool that couldn't do >>at least that, which caused my disappointement for MrProject, > > > Again, lemme take the example I've used before. > I got 2 resources (R1 and R2) and two tasks (T1 and T2). > T1 is 35 worked days long and T2 only 5. R2 can work on both but R1 can > only work on T1. Resources may not be used more than 100%. > > So, how do you expect the application to solve that ? > You can choose > > 1] > R2 work full time on T2 and then switch on T1. This will make T2 take 5 > days and T1 being 20 days (5 (R1) + 2*15 (R1+R2)). > > 2] > R2 work half time on T1 and T2. This will make T2 last 10 (5/0.5) days > and T1 20 days ( 10 (R1) + 5 (R2) + 2*10 (R1+R2) ) > > You can vary that as much as you want. > You can't either set the percentage of work on a task before the > computing. If you consider my previous example in the middle of a > project, any task glitch will false the all planning and it may finish > in having a resource used at 50% because you've set it this way. > > Consider you have this: > > days: 0----10----20----30 > T0: ====== (R1) > T0': ====== (R2) > T1: ------======= (R1,R2) (depends on T0) > T2: ------ (R2,50%) (depends on T0') > > Now imagine you just found that there's no need of TO' because it's > something the customer doesn't want to any longer. You'll now have: > > days: 0----10----20----30 > T0: ====== (R1) > T1: ------======= (R1,R2) (depends on T0) > T2: ------ (R2,50%) > > Now if you consider someone should either be allocated 100% to a task > you're wrong with experts that have various tasks that doesn't take them > full time (like those that get halftime with a crew and halftime with > another within a project). > Sharing time as (100/number of tasks) is also wrong because it may > expand the critical path (examples are left as exercices ;) > > Therefore it was decided that planner will not manage resource by itself > (at least in the near future) but will try to provide an accurate view > to plan the resource load. (Do you agree on this point richard and > mickael ?) > > The resource usage should be included in the next release (0.12) and > will help gather opinion on it to make it better then. > > Regards, > Xavier Ordoquy. > > > _______________________________________________ > Planner mailing list > Planner@lists.imendio.com > http://lists.imendio.com/mailman/listinfo/planner > From jos@xos037.xos.nl Mon Jan 26 09:31:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: planner@lists.imendio.com Received: from simba.xos.nl (simba.xos.nl [212.26.207.226]) by master.imendio.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D23C047 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:31:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from xos037.xos.nl (xos037.xos.nl [212.26.207.37]) by simba.xos.nl (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA31193 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:36:48 +0100 Received: (from jos@localhost) by xos037.xos.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) id i0Q8axQ31672; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:36:59 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:36:59 +0100 From: Jos Vos To: Planner Project Manager Subject: Re: [Planner] Opensched and resource scheduling Message-ID: <20040126093659.A31636@xos037.xos.nl> References: <200401252203.i0PM35830066@xos037.xos.nl> <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <1075072942.508.30.camel@eutherpe.homeworld.net>; from xordoquy@wanadoo.fr on Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 12:22:22AM +0100 X-Organization: X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV, Amsterdam, The Netherlands X-BeenThere: planner@lists.imendio.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Planner Project Manager List-Id: Planner Project Manager List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:31:14 -0000 On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 12:22:22AM +0100, Xavier Ordoquy wrote: > As far as I remember it ended up in the fact that resources can be used > above 100% and that resource usage shall not be compted by the > application because it may lead to an infinite number of possibilities. Well, Opensched does it, AFAIK. And doesn't MS-Project solve this too? (I never used *any* MS-software, not even Windows ;-), so I don't know.) > On another hand I *may* start working on a prototype to compute resource > plan and add load constraints. Maybe intergrate the Opensched algorithm? > Again, lemme take the example I've used before. > I got 2 resources (R1 and R2) and two tasks (T1 and T2). > T1 is 35 worked days long and T2 only 5. R2 can work on both but R1 can > only work on T1. Resources may not be used more than 100%. > > So, how do you expect the application to solve that ? Maybe with priorities on tasks? If most (all?) tasks have a different priority, this should limit the possibilities (together with all kinds of other contraints, like dependencies, fixed allocation/starting time/dealines, etc.). > Now if you consider someone should either be allocated 100% to a task > you're wrong with experts that have various tasks that doesn't take them > full time (like those that get halftime with a crew and halftime with > another within a project). Exactly what I see in real life, so it should indeed be possible to pin long-lasting tasks for someone for, say, 25% of his/her time. > Therefore it was decided that planner will not manage resource by itself > (at least in the near future) but will try to provide an accurate view > to plan the resource load. (Do you agree on this point richard and > mickael ?) > > The resource usage should be included in the next release (0.12) and > will help gather opinion on it to make it better then. I'm curious how this will work, will certainly take a look at it. I'm not a planning expert, just want to use the tool, and considered it pretty useless for my purpose with the lack of this functionality. Thanks, -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204