From damianhaase01@yahoo.com Thu Jul 1 11:14:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.169.227]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 656693B0C39 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 11:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.3.79.2?) (damianhaase01@216.115.180.7 with login) by smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 15:13:17 -0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] desktop entry names, generic? From: Damian Haase To: usability@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1088693671.10252.32.camel@trout> References: <20040630160138.F05743B0F28@menubar.gnome.org> <1088693671.10252.32.camel@trout> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr" Message-Id: <1088695069.10252.39.camel@trout> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 11:17:50 -0400 X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:14:07 -0000 --=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 12:01, Bryan Clark wrote: > Applications outside of the core desktop should brand themselves as > they are, however the core desktop applications should be branded as > GNOME and that brand is simply not having one. > > > > I don't think this kind of branding is helping people, while we are > proud of the applications that make up the GNOME Desktop, each > application that's included in the desktop becomes part of GNOME as it > is integrated. I view us kind of like the Borg, resistance is futile > and you will be assimilated. Another thing to consider is scanability. If there are four Music Players installed (granted, maybe not a common case), and they all follow the format "_____ Music Player" with the GNOME default leaving off the "_____", then the menu would look something like this: Another Music Player Gary's Music Player Music Player Slick Music Player The issue I see here is that by asking all GNOME app developers to follow the "____ Music Player" format, the only distiguishing characteristic in a list of like items is the "____", and the GNOME default, lacking that distinguishing characteristic, may get lost in the noise. There may be other ways to allow an application to display its "primary" status than by altering the menu name. Perhaps some visual distinction, such as a highlight color, or even bold text. Maybe position in the list. This is a good subject for small-scale testing. I could write up a little test plan. That is, unless this is a closed conversation. - Damian Haase --=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 12:01, Bryan Clark wrote:

Applications outside of the core desktop should brand themselves as 
they are, however the core desktop applications should be branded as 
GNOME and that brand is simply not having one.

<snip>

I don't think this kind of branding is helping people, while we are
proud of the applications that make up the GNOME Desktop, each
application that's included in the desktop becomes part of GNOME as it
is integrated.  I view us kind of like the Borg, resistance is futile
and you will be assimilated.

Another thing to consider is scanability. If there are four Music Players installed (granted, maybe not a common case), and they all follow the format "_____ Music Player" with the GNOME default leaving off the "_____", then the menu would look something like this:

  Another Music Player
  Gary's Music Player
  Music Player
  Slick Music Player

The issue I see here is that by asking all GNOME app developers to follow the "____ Music Player" format, the only distiguishing characteristic in a list of like items is the "____", and the GNOME default, lacking that distinguishing characteristic, may get lost in the noise.

There may be other ways to allow an application to display its "primary" status than by altering the menu name. Perhaps some visual distinction, such as a highlight color, or even bold text. Maybe position in the list.

This is a good subject for small-scale testing. I could write up a little test plan. That is, unless this is a closed conversation.

- Damian Haase --=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr-- From mightyquinn@charter.net Sat Jul 3 07:18:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mxsf12.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf12.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.212]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CB03B08AB for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mxip10.cluster1.charter.net (mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.140]) by mxsf12.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i63BKM5J019744 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:20:22 -0400 Received: from 24.247.247.83.bay.mi.chartermi.net (HELO sayuki) (24.247.247.83) by mxip10.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2004 07:18:29 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.81R,146,1083556800"; d="scan'208"; a="79328024:sNHT12480580" From: Dave Ahlswede To: usability@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:18:25 +0000 Message-Id: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: mightyquinn@letterboxes.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:18:29 -0000 After a little "usabilitily study" I conducted on myself, consisting of renaming and moving about a dozen files between partitions, I discovered a couple things that irked me about nautilus. First, I think the move to trash option on the menu is too close to the rename option.. I accidentally moved several files to the trash.. while a reversible action, it did break my train of thought. Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be used to force a move in this case. I thought it might be better to run this by people here before I bugged the nautilus folks about it. From azz@us-lot.org Sat Jul 3 07:44:19 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx5.kent.ac.uk (mx5.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.21.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856F63B0C67 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from myrtle.ukc.ac.uk ([129.12.3.176] ident=exim) by mx5.kent.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BgiwH-0000p2-He for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:13 +0100 Received: from swallow.ukc.ac.uk ([129.12.4.234] helo=cartman.at.fivegeeks.net ident=ats1) by myrtle.ukc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BgiwH-00052z-8D for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:13 +0100 Received: from azz by cartman.at.fivegeeks.net with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BgiwG-0007tl-19 for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:12 +0100 To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> From: Adam Sampson Organization: Things I did not know at first I learned by doing twice. Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> (Dave Ahlswede's message of "Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:18:25 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) XEmacs/21.4 (Security Through Obscurity, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: Adam Sampson X-UKC-Mail-System: No virus detected X-UKC-SpamCheck: X-UKC-MailScanner-From: azz@us-lot.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:44:19 -0000 Dave Ahlswede writes: > Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying > instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move > is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move > here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be > used to force a move in this case. This used to be inconsistent with the documentation -- I reported it as bug 128227, and it got fixed by changing the docs. I'd be curious to hear why it's better for Nautilus to behave differently when dragging between filesystems; I would have assumed that consistent behaviour would have been more useful, particularly given that it's really not obvious when two folders are actually on different filesystems. What's wrong with having Nautilus always move when dragging with no modifiers held down, and always copy when dragging with Shift held down (or vica versa)? -- Adam Sampson From jcs116@york.ac.uk Sat Jul 3 07:48:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk (pythagoras.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.140]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148DD3B08EB for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [82.68.105.97] (helo=slate.badgerhaus) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Bgj0c-0007su-Ps for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:48:42 +0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: John Spray To: usability@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1088855322.26219.13.camel@slate> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:48:42 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.105.97] X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:48:47 -0000 On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 12:18, Dave Ahlswede wrote: > the only way to get it to move is > to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move here" > from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be used to > force a move in this case. In the name of completeness, I'll mention that you can also button-2 drag to get the menu when you drop. John From kodis@papa.kodis.org Sat Jul 3 08:45:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A91DD3B06F5 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from papa.kodis.org (pcp02267821pcs.longhl01.md.comcast.net[68.50.98.85]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2004070312454901300jc286e>; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:45:50 +0000 Received: from papa.kodis.org (papa.kodis.org [127.0.0.1]) by papa.kodis.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i63CjmgZ003403 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:48 -0400 Received: (from kodis@localhost) by papa.kodis.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i63Cjmo8003400 for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:48 -0400 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:48 -0400 From: John Kodis To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] desktop entry names, generic? Message-ID: <20040703124548.GA3339@papa.kodis.org> References: <20040630160138.F05743B0F28@menubar.gnome.org> <1088693671.10252.32.camel@trout> <1088695069.10252.39.camel@trout> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1088695069.10252.39.camel@trout> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:45:51 -0000 On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 11:17:50AM -0400, Damian Haase wrote: > Another thing to consider is scanability. If there are four Music > Players installed (granted, maybe not a common case), and they all > follow the format "_____ Music Player" with the GNOME default leaving > off the "_____", then the menu would look something like this: > > Another Music Player > Gary's Music Player > Music Player > Slick Music Player > > The issue I see here is that by asking all GNOME app developers to > follow the "____ Music Player" format, the only distiguishing > characteristic in a list of like items is the "____", and the GNOME > default, lacking that distinguishing characteristic, may get lost in > the noise. > > There may be other ways to allow an application to display its > "primary" status than by altering the menu name. Perhaps some visual > distinction, such as a highlight color, or even bold text. Maybe > position in the list. Putting "Music Player" first in the list would do it, although I'd prefer just supplying a distinguishing name for each. There was also a proposal at one time to solve this sort of problem by having the menu at the level above this one show "Music Player >". Clicking on this would start the default music player, but when the user clicked on/hovered over the little arrow on the right hand side, a submenu with Another, Slick, and Gary's Music Players would appear. That seemed like an elegant, intuitive, and flexible solution to me, but the idea never went anywhere for reasons that I no longer recall. -- John Kodis. From chris@gnome-de.org Sat Jul 3 16:01:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.bytecamp.net (mail.bytecamp.net [212.204.60.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 88EF03B06B4 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 70560 invoked by uid 88); 3 Jul 2004 20:01:09 -0000 Received: from pd9e9642b.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.123.111?) (chris%gnome-de.org@217.233.100.43) by mail.bytecamp.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2004 20:01:09 -0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: Christian Neumair To: mightyquinn@letterboxes.org In-Reply-To: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:01:37 +0200 Message-Id: <1088884897.18025.8.camel@widget> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 20:01:15 -0000 Am Samstag, den 03.07.2004, 11:18 +0000 schrieb Dave Ahlswede: > I think the move to trash option on the menu is too close to the > rename option.. I accidentally moved several files to the trash.. while > a reversible action, it did break my train of thought. Weird. There should be a separator between rename and move to trash. Maybe your nautilus version is broken or outdated. > Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying > instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move is > to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move here" > from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be used to > force a move in this case. The menu should pop up if you drag using the middle mouse button as well. But indeed you're right, shift should cause Nautilus to move the files, although it doesn't ATM. > I thought it might be better to run this by people here before I bugged > the nautilus folks about it. Feel free to bug 'em by filing a bug report :). Thanks for your efforts. regs, Chris From thorsten.seitz@web.de Sat Jul 3 18:35:26 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp06.web.de (smtp06.web.de [217.72.192.224]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6343B084A for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [217.236.148.202] (helo=pd9ec94ca.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) by smtp06.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (WEB.DE 4.101 #44) id 1Bgt6T-0007G5-00 for usability@gnome.org; Sun, 04 Jul 2004 00:35:25 +0200 From: Thorsten Seitz To: usability@gnome.org Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 00:35:08 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Sender: thorsten.seitz@web.de Subject: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: thorsten.seitz@web.de List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:35:26 -0000 Having upgraded to GNOME 2.6 I'm very happy with the spatial Nautilus and t= he=20 new Filechooser. Thanks to all involved! To round some corners I'd like to make some suggestions: 1. It would be nice to have the "Open Location" action not just available v= ia=20 Ctrl-L from a Nautilus window but from the Action menu in the panel, too. 2. The "Open Location" dialog should work like that of the Filechooser, i.e= =2E=20 it should offer completions in a drop down list, too. 3. Renaming the Home folder on the desktop should work on the Filechooser,= =20 too, i.e. the Home folder should appear with its new name in the bookmark=20 list and on the path button. (The new name should be used throughout GNOME,= =20 i.e. in the Application menu of the panel, too). 4. If (3) is not possible it should at least be possible to rename the Home= =20 folder with respect to the Filechooser, because in the German translation i= ts=20 name is "Pers=F6nlicher Ordner" which is rather long for the path button. 5. No drives should appear in the bookmark list of the Filechooser. Instead= =20 the Computer location should appear there to allow relatively quick access = to=20 all drives. The reason is that (a) not all drives in the list are mounted o= r=20 interesting (e.g. I have a CD-ROM, CD-Recorder, Floppy and two unmounted=20 drives (for backups); all these are used almost never when opening/saving=20 files but take up precious space in the bookmark list). 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in=20 Nautilus windows. What do you all think? =2DThorsten From mightyquinn@charter.net Sat Jul 3 19:27:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.217]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FC23B06FF for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 19:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mxip06.cluster1.charter.net (mxip06a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.136]) by mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i63NTXs7002892 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 19:29:33 -0400 Received: from 24.247.247.83.bay.mi.chartermi.net (HELO sayuki) (24.247.247.83) by mxip06.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2004 19:27:50 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.81R,146,1083556800"; d="scan'208"; a="80895315:sNHT13011890" Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: Dave Ahlswede To: Christian Neumair In-Reply-To: <1088884897.18025.8.camel@widget> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> <1088884897.18025.8.camel@widget> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 19:27:48 -0400 Message-Id: <1088897268.21099.12.camel@sayuki> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: mightyquinn@letterboxes.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 23:27:51 -0000 On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 22:01 +0200, Christian Neumair wrote: > Am Samstag, den 03.07.2004, 11:18 +0000 schrieb Dave Ahlswede: > > I think the move to trash option on the menu is too close to the > > rename option.. I accidentally moved several files to the trash.. while > > a reversible action, it did break my train of thought. > > Weird. There should be a separator between rename and move to trash. > Maybe your nautilus version is broken or outdated. Actually, the separator bar is there, but at least with the LighthouseBlue GTK engine, it's about 1/3 of the width of an entry line. It's close enough that I still hit it instead of rename a couple times-- I'm not sure why it happened with this combo, and not elsewhere in the menu, though it may have something to do with the absence of a stock icon for rename by default, and icons in menu options seem to psychologically be an easier target to click. And actually, as I look around the menu a little more, my thoughts were to move it just above properties, but the division just above properties varies in size, so it might be harder to develop muscle-memory for it. I think in retrospect that this may be user error on my part and not a usability error in Nautilus. From reinout@cs.vu.nl Mon Jul 5 08:52:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from sloep115.cs.vu.nl (sloep115.cs.vu.nl [130.37.24.75]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA573B07F0 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 08:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sloep115.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #91) id m1BhSx4-000NchC; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:52 +0200 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:52:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Thorsten Seitz Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions In-Reply-To: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Message-ID: References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:52:09 -0000 On Sun, 4 Jul 2004, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > 1. It would be nice to have the "Open Location" action not just > available via Ctrl-L from a Nautilus window but from the Action > menu in the panel, too. Agreed, but it would be even better if there were an entry field on the panel where you could enter any network- or filesystem location. GNOME would take care that the right handler for the location is chosen. > 2. The "Open Location" dialog should work like that of the > Filechooser, i.e. it should offer completions in a drop down list, > too. Perhaps this could be nicely combined with Nautilus' Connect to Server dialog. See also http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D139105 > 3. Renaming the Home folder on the desktop should work on the > Filechooser, too, i.e. the Home folder should appear with its new IMHO the desktop should *be* the home folder, but this discussion has been closed, you can set the gconf key but it's not going to be default in the forseeable future. > name is "Pers=F6nlicher Ordner" which is rather long for the path button. Now *that's* interesting. At GUADEC I talked to people who were convinced that we (Dutch l10n team) were the only ones that translated 'Home' on GNOME that way. > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. Disagree. The filechooser is a very different beast than Nautilus. There would be no immediate feedback if you bookmarked a folder that way, and the user wouldn't have an easy way to know that those folders will end up in the filechooser bookmarks. > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > Nautilus windows. I do agree that the Locations should be extendable but I'm not sure this is the right way to do it. Have you filed RFE bugs for your suggestions? regards, --=20 Reinout van Schouwen=09=09=09Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl=09=09=09mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 =09Against Software Patents in the EU - swpat.ffii.org From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Mon Jul 5 14:12:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 72E923B0D5B for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 5 Jul 2004 19:12:56 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 19:12:49 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: Thorsten Seitz Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions In-Reply-To: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Message-ID: References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:12:58 -0000 > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > Nautilus windows. I think that is a great idea. I'm getting really annoyed at having all sorts of entirely seperate bookmarks in different places and needing to repeatedly add them (and it is just as bad in KDE, so if you mix an match GTK and Qt applications it adds to the madness). I doubt any applications could directly share the same bookmarks file applications really should include subfolder(s) with imported bookmarks so that in Nautilus i would have Bookmarks FileChooser Bookmarks Gthumb Bookmarks and similarly those applications would have a subfolder for Nautilus bookmarks. granted I have no clue how this might work in practice and I can see Epiphany being an especially difficult case but having to add the same bookmarks more than once is quite annoying. > What do you all think? Good ideas. - Alan From seguso.forever@tin.it Mon Jul 5 14:38:42 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from vsmtp4.tin.it (unknown [212.216.176.150]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA4E3B06EA for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.33] (82.51.115.214) by vsmtp4.tin.it (7.0.027) id 40ACC5B100B288B2 for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:38:37 +0200 From: Maurizio Colucci To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:39:13 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> In-Reply-To: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:38:42 -0000 Hello, here's my two pence: On Saturday 03 July 2004 15:35, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. 100 % agree > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > Nautilus windows. Disagree. I believe there should be a GLOBAL button on the gnome-panel, which opens the bookmark list. It would spare one click in some situation, and has no drawback over your solution, as far as I can see. PS: At the risk of repeating myself: I believe also a "recent locations" button should be in the gnome-panel. It works very well in my app: http://logicaldesktop.sourceforge.net (try it! It's easy, it's a python script). Mau From thorsten.seitz@web.de Mon Jul 5 16:29:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp08.web.de (smtp08.web.de [217.72.192.226]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545523B0A30 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [217.236.144.188] (helo=pd9ec90bc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) by smtp08.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (WEB.DE 4.101 #44) id 1Bha5l-00033F-00 for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:29:34 +0200 From: Thorsten Seitz To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 22:29:32 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> In-Reply-To: <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200407052229.32471.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Sender: thorsten.seitz@web.de X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: thorsten.seitz@web.de List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 20:29:38 -0000 On Tuesday 06 July 2004 05:39, Maurizio Colucci wrote: > On Saturday 03 July 2004 15:35, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. > > 100 % agree > > > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > > Nautilus windows. > > Disagree. I believe there should be a GLOBAL button on the gnome-panel, > which opens the bookmark list. It would spare one click in some situation, > and has no drawback over your solution, as far as I can see. Great idea! This button should include the standard Locations list, though. > PS: At the risk of repeating myself: I believe also a "recent locations" > button should be in the gnome-panel. It works very well in my app: That would be very nice, too! -Thorsten From seguso.forever@tin.it Mon Jul 5 18:33:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from vsmtp3.tin.it (vsmtp3alice.tin.it [212.216.176.143]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D6B33B0EC5 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 18:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.33] (82.51.115.214) by vsmtp3.tin.it (7.0.027) id 40CF29D700576161 for usability@gnome.org; Tue, 6 Jul 2004 00:33:42 +0200 From: Maurizio Colucci To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 00:34:18 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> <200407052229.32471.thorsten.seitz@web.de> In-Reply-To: <200407052229.32471.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200407060034.18902.seguso.forever@tin.it> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:33:43 -0000 On Monday 05 July 2004 13:29, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > Disagree. I believe there should be a GLOBAL button on the gnome-panel, > > which opens the bookmark list. =A0It would spare one click in some > > situation, and has no drawback over your solution, as far as I can see. > > Great idea! This button should include the standard Locations list, thoug= h. Thanks :-) However, a menu entry in nautilus would still be needed for who uses nautil= us=20 without the gnome-panel. From msuarezalvarez@arnet.com.ar Sat Jul 10 22:47:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp3.arnet.com.ar (smtp3.arnet.com.ar [200.45.191.14]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E9863B076E for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13315 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 02:45:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.0.3?) (200.45.96.152) by smtp3.arnet.com.ar with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 02:45:13 -0000 From: Mariano =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Su=E1rez-Alvarez?= To: GNOME Usability List Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh" Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:46:55 -0300 Message-Id: <1089514015.2762.40.camel@grothendieck.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9 Subject: [Usability] HIG dialogs X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 02:47:46 -0000 --=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Since the search function of our mailing lists is broken, and google does not give me anything useful, I'll take the risk of bringing this up:=20 Can some one point me to instructions on how to get the exterior borders of the buttons in the action area of a GtkDialog to be aligned with the borders of the rest of the dialog in a way that does not break when one changes the theme?=20 Glade allows you to set the corresponding style properties on the horizontal button box in a dialog, but these is not theme-change resistant. -- m --=20 Mariano Su=C3=A1rez-Alvarez http://www.gnome.org/~mariano --=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBA8KofEwEqMdgw70URAtM0AJ9962f8Zf4jUVq+THDGYGmUyA1i3gCeMehr IHxasnyyr2peTZepNT26fVs= =evUQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh-- From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Tue Jul 13 21:00:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ni-mail2.dna.utvinternet.net (ni-mail2.dna.utvinternet.net [194.46.8.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924B33B0A8A; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sputnik.localdomain (unverified [195.218.110.125]) by ni-mail2.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 3.1.302.0) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:00:53 +0100 Received: by sputnik.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 500) id B2F9B132FF3; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:02:15 +0100 (IST) From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" To: usability@gnome.org, gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Udaltsoft Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:02:15 +0100 Message-Id: <1089766935.17599.50.camel@sputnik> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 Cc: Subject: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:00:54 -0000 Hi all Yesterday I merged the branch which adds one extra tab to the keyboard preferences. The tab is "Layout preview". I realize that current solution is far from perfect usability-wise - it is there just to display the existence of such functionality. The rendering is somewhat ugly - but the main issue is that I do not have clear vision WHERE and HOW to display the preview. Should it be just separate window existing aside with the preferences window? Should it be modal popup dialog? Any comments/ideas are very welcome. The screenshots can be found here: http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv.png http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv2.png Regards, Sergey From bclark@redhat.com Tue Jul 13 23:31:47 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98983B0A90 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6E3Vle1027822 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:47 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6E3Vl019187 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:47 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.118] (vpn64-23.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.23]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6E3VEhx025365 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List In-Reply-To: <1089766935.17599.50.camel@sputnik> References: <1089766935.17599.50.camel@sputnik> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:52 -0400 Message-Id: <1089775912.3549.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 (1.5.9.1-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 03:31:48 -0000 Hi Sergey ~ On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 02:02 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > Yesterday I merged the branch which adds one extra tab to the keyboard > preferences. The tab is "Layout preview". I realize that current > solution is far from perfect usability-wise - it is there just to > display the existence of such functionality. The rendering is somewhat > ugly - but the main issue is that I do not have clear vision WHERE and > HOW to display the preview. Should it be just separate window existing > aside with the preferences window? Should it be modal popup dialog? Any > comments/ideas are very welcome. A new tab is probably not the way to go for this. Perhaps we can first construct a storyboard for how this system is used and who it is used by. Then we can try to model the best interaction after that. > The screenshots can be found here: > > http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv.png > http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv2.png This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) Cheers, ~ Bryan From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 12:13:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21943B120C; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B756380F32; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:13:16 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:13:16 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:13:18 -0000 > I think the picture of the keyboard should be where it is. The > rendering needs a facelift, but I think it's in the right position. > Endless popups are just annoying. Well, for me extra window is annoying, true. But usability-wise showing and updating the popup on the tab 5 while the controls are on the tabs 2 and 3 - sounds really ugly (for example, it is not obvious at all that options on the tab 3 affect the layout as well as option on the tab 2). It is some kind of "driving blind". In the ideal world, person should be able look at the resulting layout at the same time as he/she changes the configuration. Sergey From sstephenson@gmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:26:01 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D5863B09B0 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:26:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d78so337409rnf for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.9.24 with SMTP id 24mr311481rni; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:25:41 -0400 From: Sam Stephenson To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" Subject: Re: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center In-Reply-To: <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:26:01 -0000 On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:13:16 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > > I think the picture of the keyboard should be where it is. The > > rendering needs a facelift, but I think it's in the right position. > > Endless popups are just annoying. > > Well, for me extra window is annoying, true. But usability-wise showing > and updating the popup on the tab 5 while the controls are on the tabs 2 > and 3 - sounds really ugly (for example, it is not obvious at all that > options on the tab 3 affect the layout as well as option on the tab 2). > It is some kind of "driving blind". In the ideal world, person should > be able look at the resulting layout at the same time as he/she changes > the configuration. What about a GtkExpander that contains the preview image positioned vertically in between the notebook and the bottom buttons? The dialog's height could grow and shrink as necessary. > Sergey Sam From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 12:42:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EC43B0C1B; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E2C80F32; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:35 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:42:37 -0000 > A new tab is probably not the way to go for this. Perhaps we can first > construct a storyboard for how this system is used and who it is used > by. Then we can try to model the best interaction after that. Well, the story is very simple (well, at least as I see it). First, this feature (like all the layouts configuration stuff) is only interesting for people using non-US layouts. Once such a user wants to use his national layout - in most cases, it has to choose which variant he/she wants to use - because most of layouts contain more than one variant. As one Ukrainian person said (translation from Russian): "For now, when I want to choose a suitable keyboard variant, I have to try all available variants and with each variant, press EVERY key TWICE (with and without Shift pressed)". FYI, currently there are 3 Russian variants in xorg distribution - and IIRC it is not the largest number for one country/language. So this preview screen allows to estimate visually whether the choosen layout and variant match the idea of the user of what they should be. Ideally, user should be able to see the layout selection widgets (tabs 2 and 3) and the preview - at the same time, simultaniously. So the "separate window" solution looks good from this POV - but the screen cluttering is my concern here. BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? > This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough > on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) Exactly. It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the geometry is generally described in X server geometry. Regards, Sergey From Glynn.Foster@Sun.COM Wed Jul 14 12:52:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32ECC3B0C17 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-eris-2 ([129.156.85.26]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6EGqaJ8026958 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.eris-mail1.uk.sun.com by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0I0U00J01PGKLA@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Glynn.Foster@Sun.COM) for usability@gnome.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:52:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from [10.0.1.4] (vpn-129-150-153-2.Aus.Sun.COM [129.150.153.2]) by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I0U007PSPJKWE@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:52:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 03:38:58 +1200 From: Glynn Foster Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center In-reply-to: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" Message-id: <1089560339.2638.27.camel@slipstream> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:52:38 -0000 Hey, > > This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough > > on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) > Exactly. It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other > than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the > geometry is generally described in X server geometry. So it almost feels that the keyboard layout should be part of the selection somehow ie. selecting a keyboard layout automatically updates the always visible keyboard preview, rather than manually having to click on a preview button to see the results of your selection. I guess I'm not convinced that an end user has any idea what the various keyboard layout descriptions mean and that pictures speak louder than words - ok, I'm slightly biased and narrow minded with a US layout. As to how you can present that in a user interface is another question. Glynn From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 13:04:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848783B0C4A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2DFF80F3F; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5670F.6050101@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Stephenson Subject: Re: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:04:29 -0000 > What about a GtkExpander that contains the preview image positioned > vertically in between the notebook and the bottom buttons? The > dialog's height could grow and shrink as necessary. Actually, this idea looks ok for me. The only potential is that if we put it OUTSIDE notebook - it will also be accessible from the tabs 1 and 4 which have nothing to do with layout. Sergey From liam@holoweb.net Wed Jul 14 13:12:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from dirk.holoweb.net (dirk2.holoweb.net [216.94.134.20]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F553B124A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dirk.holoweb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A88996A42A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center From: "Liam R. E. Quin" To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" In-Reply-To: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: W3C Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:08:42 -0400 Message-Id: <1089824922.5593.12.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90-3mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:12:38 -0000 On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 17:42 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several > layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going > to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 > and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user > choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. > It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other > than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the > geometry is generally described in X server geometry. You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, as you could "program" them independently of the application) Liam From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 15:16:36 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ni-mail3.dna.utvinternet.net (unknown [194.46.8.37]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2A23B12A1; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sputnik.localdomain (unverified [195.218.110.117]) by ni-mail3.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 3.1.302.0) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:16:36 +0100 Received: by sputnik.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 500) id 427A5132FF4; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:17:59 +0100 (IST) Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" To: Glynn Foster In-Reply-To: <1089560339.2638.27.camel@slipstream> References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> <1089560339.2638.27.camel@slipstream> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Udaltsoft Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:17:58 +0100 Message-Id: <1089832678.17599.54.camel@sputnik> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 19:16:36 -0000 > So it almost feels that the keyboard layout should be part of the > selection somehow ie. selecting a keyboard layout automatically updates Yeah, and it does now - it automatically updates. > the always visible keyboard preview, rather than manually having to > click on a preview button to see the results of your selection. I guess Sure. Even with the current design there is no special button - the update is automatic. But it is just in another tab:( > I'm not convinced that an end user has any idea what the various > keyboard layout descriptions mean and that pictures speak louder than > words - ok, I'm slightly biased and narrow minded with a US layout. Well, unfortunately some details of the layout are really better represented when they are shown. For Russian, it is punctuation characters which matters - their placement is very different in different variants so it is better to see the layout in order to find whether it is "yours" or not. Just "default" or "winkeys" gives little information on this subject. > As to how you can present that in a user interface is another question. Of course. Sergey From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Thu Jul 15 05:48:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-mx-03.ti.local (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 493A23B09C4; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.104]) by smtp-mx-03.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:48:31 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:48:26 -0300 Received: from mail-fe-01 ([192.168.220.33]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:30:03 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-05.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.168]) by mail-fe-01 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:04:38 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191168.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 17:02:29 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B733B0C36; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848783B0C4A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2DFF80F3F; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5670F.6050101@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Stephenson References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2004 17:04:38.0311 (UTC) FILETIME=[A56D0B70:01C469C4] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:48:52 -0000 > What about a GtkExpander that contains the preview image positioned > vertically in between the notebook and the bottom buttons? The > dialog's height could grow and shrink as necessary. Actually, this idea looks ok for me. The only potential is that if we put it OUTSIDE notebook - it will also be accessible from the tabs 1 and 4 which have nothing to do with layout. Sergey _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Thu Jul 15 06:40:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-mx-05.ti.local (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3227B3B068F; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.104]) by smtp-mx-05.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:39:52 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:39:51 -0300 Received: from mail-fe-02 ([192.168.220.43]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:18:46 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-03.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.166]) by mail-fe-02 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:42:52 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191166.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 16:40:44 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C887E3B1240; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:42:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EC43B0C1B; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E2C80F32; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:35 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: usability@gnome.org References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2004 16:42:52.0710 (UTC) FILETIME=[9B3A2460:01C469C1] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:40:11 -0000 > A new tab is probably not the way to go for this. Perhaps we can first > construct a storyboard for how this system is used and who it is used > by. Then we can try to model the best interaction after that. Well, the story is very simple (well, at least as I see it). First, this feature (like all the layouts configuration stuff) is only interesting for people using non-US layouts. Once such a user wants to use his national layout - in most cases, it has to choose which variant he/she wants to use - because most of layouts contain more than one variant. As one Ukrainian person said (translation from Russian): "For now, when I want to choose a suitable keyboard variant, I have to try all available variants and with each variant, press EVERY key TWICE (with and without Shift pressed)". FYI, currently there are 3 Russian variants in xorg distribution - and IIRC it is not the largest number for one country/language. So this preview screen allows to estimate visually whether the choosen layout and variant match the idea of the user of what they should be. Ideally, user should be able to see the layout selection widgets (tabs 2 and 3) and the preview - at the same time, simultaniously. So the "separate window" solution looks good from this POV - but the screen cluttering is my concern here. BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? > This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough > on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) Exactly. It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the geometry is generally described in X server geometry. Regards, Sergey _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From liam@holoweb.net Thu Jul 15 07:27:02 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail-fe-02 (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FE13B0678; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.104]) by mail-fe-02 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:26:43 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:25:26 -0300 Received: from smtp-mx-05.ti.local ([192.168.220.24]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:47:36 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-01.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.164]) by smtp-mx-05.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:13:29 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191164.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 17:11:21 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D6923B126A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:12:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from dirk.holoweb.net (dirk2.holoweb.net [216.94.134.20]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F553B124A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dirk.holoweb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A88996A42A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:13:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Liam R. E. Quin" To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" In-Reply-To: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: W3C Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:08:42 -0400 Message-Id: <1089824922.5593.12.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90-3mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2004 17:13:29.0588 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2177B40:01C469C5] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:27:03 -0000 On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 17:42 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several > layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going > to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 > and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user > choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. > It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other > than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the > geometry is generally described in X server geometry. You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, as you could "program" them independently of the application) Liam _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Thu Jul 15 12:47:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5453B0B81; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6B580F68; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F6B535.4090303@pochta.ru> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "" Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in, gnome-control-center References: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.2.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:47:55 -0000 > A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is > the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. Well, it is not exactly up to gnome - all this data comes from X server. Sure, we can submit patches to xorg and xfree - but we cannot count on them in foreseeble future. Also, lengthy textual description sometimes is more confusing than just a glance onto the image. > You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Cool! I will work on it one gtkgl makes its way into the gnome libs:) > Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. AFAIK xkeycaps does not use xkb geometry, does it? The "beauty" of our image is mostly limited by that info. > Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours > and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can > work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in > the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and > perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. True, "test mode" is another solution to a problem. But it is actually not far from the solution of my friend - just open the text editor and press evey key twice (to say the truth, I see no difference other than ability to test safely special keys by grabbing the entire keyboard input). IMHO this solution is less usable. > (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a > toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input > to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. > It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, > as you could "program" them independently of the application) By any chance, don't you remember the name of the app? Just to have a look, you know. So, summing things up, the only viable solution so far is to use GtkExtender, putting it under the notebook. Are there other viable solutions? Sergey From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 15 18:10:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABAAE3B13E8; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6FMAYe1002958; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:34 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6FMAYa11316; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:34 -0400 Received: from [172.16.64.218] (dhcp64-218.boston.redhat.com [172.16.64.218]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6FMA0k9023978; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:00 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:38 -0400 Message-Id: <1089929438.3244.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 (1.5.9.1-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of gpdf on Friday, July 16th at 17:00 UTC X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:10:34 -0000 Just like the subject says. Sorry for the somewhat late notice, but Martin and I finally agreed on a time ;-) What's the review going to be? Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look at where gpdf is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with gpdf so far. Where will it be? We'll be on irc.gimp.net #ui-review at 17:00 UTC (1pm Boston time) How long will it take? The review shouldn't take too long, everyone is welcome to join. Where can I get more information on ui-reviews? http://usability.gnome.org/ui-review/ Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From joturner@vt.edu Sun Jul 18 22:52:10 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from lennier.cc.vt.edu (lennier.cc.vt.edu [198.82.162.213]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85EE63B0E84 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from steiner.cc.vt.edu (IDENT:mirapoint@evil-steiner [10.1.1.14]) by lennier.cc.vt.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6J2faLi243486 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.2.1.124] (199-3-136-10.rs-brn-apthts.blacksburg.ntc-com.net [199.3.136.10]) by steiner.cc.vt.edu (MOS 3.4.8-GR) with ESMTP id BEG06083 (AUTH joturner); Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Jonathan Turner To: Gnome Usability List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:39:58 -0500 Message-Id: <1090208398.25373.8.camel@wheatbeard.homenetwork> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] GNOME 2.6 Usability Review with User Study X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 02:52:10 -0000 For those of you who are interested. I've posted a GNOME 2.6 usability review with fairly detailed user testing. You can read it here: http://www.userinstinct.com/viewpost.php?postid=gnome26review Jonathan From bclark@redhat.com Mon Jul 19 01:26:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A9C3B08A0; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6J5QJe1002112; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:19 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6J5QJa14657; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:19 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.118] (vpn64-22.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.22]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6J5PiMW007155; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:25:44 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1090214781.4489.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of gpdf Summary X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 05:26:20 -0000 The weekend came fast and has me sending this a little late, but it's here none the less. A short summary of the ui-review of gpdf for those who weren't there and those who were. Thanks to everyone involved, we had a really successful review session. Areas of change: General Page fit as a settings that is kept in GConf Outline Page View Layout and thumbnailing Navigation of pages Fullscreen Mode Navigation of fullscreen pages Exit button Zoom controls Viewing PDFs generated by OO.o and some others Martin has probably already made blazing progress on this - thanks to Owen here as well. For a detailed outline head over to: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147869 Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From Vidar@CoreTrek.com Mon Jul 19 07:43:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from voyager.coretrek.no (voyager.coretrek.no [212.33.142.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2549B3B0F44 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by voyager.coretrek.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9349A892D; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:43:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.0.0.251] (wormhole.coretrek.no [212.33.142.10]) by voyager.coretrek.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1529CA892C; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:43:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40FBB3BD.9020903@CoreTrek.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:42:53 +0200 From: Vidar Braut Haarr Organization: CoreTrek A/S User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.1 (X11/20040715) X-Accept-Language: nn, no, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Sampson Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> In-Reply-To: X-Mor-di: yes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 (CoreTrek patch 1) Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:43:43 -0000 >>Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying >>instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move >>is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move >>here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be >>used to force a move in this case. I vote for "Move" as the default action, as that is the most natural thing to do with a real, physical, file. You don't copy it by dragging it from one "folder" to another - you move it. > I'd be curious to hear why it's better for Nautilus to behave > differently when dragging between filesystems; I would have assumed > that consistent behaviour would have been more useful, particularly > given that it's really not obvious when two folders are actually on > different filesystems. What's wrong with having Nautilus always move > when dragging with no modifiers held down, and always copy when > dragging with Shift held down (or vica versa)? I completely agree. As bandwith limits approach levels where local vs. remote/LAN storage has little effect on speed, I think we'll see more and more people getting small computers around their house, and a central storage. Computers for everything. Instead of the way it is now, where people buy home hifi-sets that can broadcast the signal to another reciever in your kitchen, and instead of having TVs and radios all over, people will just have 1 computer in each room with a variably large LCD display. Now I'm blabbering again :) In any case, the above scenario - coupled with "internet2" - tells me that the "remote" sense has already been, and will be further in the future, abstracted away from the user. So why not in Nautilus ? Just my 2 NOK. And now for my coffee. -- Vidar Braut Haarr "Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN." From mnews22@wp.pl Mon Jul 19 08:34:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp.wp.pl (smtp.wp.pl [212.77.101.160]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B853B0F4F for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (wp-smtpd smtp.wp.pl 8587 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 14:34:31 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO megumi) (mnews22@[195.116.35.55]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp.wp.pl (WP-SMTPD) with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP for ; 19 Jul 2004 14:34:31 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: Maciej Katafiasz To: Vidar Braut Haarr In-Reply-To: <40FBB3BD.9020903@CoreTrek.com> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> <40FBB3BD.9020903@CoreTrek.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Message-Id: <1090240646.28006.1143.camel@megumi> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:37:27 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-WP-AV: skaner antywirusowy poczty Wirtualnej Polski S. A. X-WP-AS1: NOSPAM Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-WP-AS3: NOSPAM X-WP-SPAM: NO Cc: usability@gnome.org, Adam Sampson X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:34:38 -0000 W liście z pon, 19-07-2004, godz. 13:42, Vidar Braut Haarr pisze: > >>Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying > >>instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move > >>is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move > >>here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be > >>used to force a move in this case. > > I vote for "Move" as the default action, as that is the most natural > thing to do with a real, physical, file. You don't copy it by dragging > it from one "folder" to another - you move it. Well, I can see a reason for having default action dependant on whether it's the same or different partition. That's because reverting move in "same" case is cheap, while in "different" it's not (you have to copy whole file back again). But I agree, Shift should definitely work as modifier, it's counter-HIGish for it not to (and annoying, too :) Cheers, Maciej -- "Tautologizm to coś tautologicznego" Maciej Katafiasz http://mathrick.blog.pl From aes@gnome.org Tue Jul 20 14:50:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk (pythagoras.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.140]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD903B0ED2 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.23.23.154] (helo=[192.168.0.6]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Bmzh0-0000Mo-3Z for usability@gnome.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:50:22 +0000 From: Andrew Sobala To: usability@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090349436.4734.128.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:50:36 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [212.23.23.154] Subject: [Usability] Is Suzanna Smith still involved with GNOME? X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:50:35 -0000 Hi, I'm trying to find out * If suzanna.smith@sun.com is still involved in gnome usability (her mail bounces), and * If so, what's a working e-mail address for her? Thanks, Andrew From Nancy.Frishberg@Sun.COM Tue Jul 20 15:02:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4486F3B0A5E; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.17.57]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6KJ29J6012708; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sun.COM (yemanja.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.83.63]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.13.0+Sun/8.13.0) with ESMTP id i6KJ4EgI967287; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <40FD6C30.2050104@Sun.COM> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:02:08 -0700 From: Nancy Frishberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20040414 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sobala Subject: Re: [Usability] Is Suzanna Smith still involved with GNOME? References: <1090349436.4734.128.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1090349436.4734.128.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Nancy.Frishberg@Sun.COM List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:02:12 -0000 She has left Sun, and I believe open source usability, for a position as a full-time visual designer with another organization. -- Nancy Andrew Sobala wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to find out > > * If suzanna.smith@sun.com is still involved in gnome usability (her > mail bounces), and > * If so, what's a working e-mail address for her? > > Thanks, > > Andrew -- Nancy Frishberg User Centered Software Design Sun Microsystems +1.650.786.0409 From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 22 00:23:04 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF803B0964; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4N4e1024511; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:04 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6M4N4a30883; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:04 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (vpn64-1.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.1]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4MRQn025451; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:22:27 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:09 -0400 Message-Id: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of ggv on Friday, July 16th at 19:00 UTC X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:23:05 -0000 Just like the subject says. Sorry for the somewhat late notice, this one is totally my fault. Jaka has been back from his sailing trip for a while now. What's the review going to be? Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look at where ggv is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with ggv so far. Where will it be? We'll be on irc.gimp.net #ui-review at 19:00 UTC (2pm Boston time) How long will it take? The review shouldn't take too long, everyone is welcome to join. Where can I get more information on ui-reviews? http://usability.gnome.org/ui-review/ Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From jdub@waugh.id.au Thu Jul 22 00:32:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.syd.swiftdsl.com.au (mail.syd.swiftdsl.com.au [202.154.83.58]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DDFE83B086E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31639 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2004 04:32:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO home.waugh.id.au) (218.214.67.227) by mail.syd.swiftdsl.com.au with SMTP; 22 Jul 2004 04:32:42 -0000 Received: from willow.home.waugh.id.au (willow.home [192.168.10.9]) by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D51E8D15; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:39 +1000 (EST) Received: by willow.home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8988669C8C; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:21 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:20 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Subject: Re: [Usability] UI-Review of ggv on Friday, July 16th at 19:00 UTC Message-ID: <20040722043220.GG6224@willow.home.waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel References: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.6 ppc Reply-By: Sun Jul 25 14:30:52 EST 2004 X-Uptime: 14:30:52 up 22 days, 11:24, 6 users, load average: 1.38, 1.50, 1.25 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i Cc: X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:32:44 -0000 > What's the review going to be? > > Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look > at where ggv is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with > ggv so far. Can we get the merging of ggv, gpdf and eog (ala Apple's "Preview", which is used for print previews, document/image viewing, etc) back on the agenda, perhaps for the next release? :-) There was some discussion about having a united frontend last year, would be great to find out where this is at. Thanks, - Jeff -- OSCON 2004: Portland OR, USA http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ "Socks for the foot menu!" - Liam Quin From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 22 00:35:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A193B079E; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4ZGe1026596; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:16 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6M4ZGa00384; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:16 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (vpn64-1.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.1]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4YdXM032394; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:34:39 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:22 -0400 Message-Id: <1090470922.3676.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of control-center on Friday, July 24th at 1500 UTC X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:35:17 -0000 Just like the subject says. What's the review going to be on? Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look at where the control-center is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with control-center so far. Where will it be? We'll be on irc.gimp.net #ui-review at 1500 UTC (11am Boston time) How long will it take? The review shouldn't take too long (1 hour - 2 hours max), everyone is welcome to join. Where can you get more information on ui-reviews? http://usability.gnome.org/ui-review/ Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 22 00:42:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CF33B0B1E; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4gOe1027887; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:24 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6M4gOa01187; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:24 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (vpn64-1.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.1]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4flHl003794; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:41:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Usability] UI-Review of ggv on Friday, July 16th at 19:00 UTC From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel In-Reply-To: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:29 -0400 Message-Id: <1090471349.5573.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:42:25 -0000 On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 00:23 -0400, Bryan Clark wrote: > Just like the subject says. Well actually it's on July 22nd (today). Sorry, I'm drunk... ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From daniele.levorato@infocamere.it Thu Jul 22 02:52:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from lxme02.infocamere.it (lxme02.infocamere.it [80.82.0.240]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6768B3B079E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 02:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxm02.icnet (lxm02.icnet [1.5.0.11]) by lxme02.infocamere.it (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6M6qNY7013525 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:23 +0200 Received: from lxm02.icnet (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6M6qIbJ016363 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:18 +0200 Received: from [1.6.64.213] (weipda064-213.icnet [1.6.64.213]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6M6qIL1016357 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:18 +0200 From: Daniele Levorato To: Gnome Usability List Content-Type: text/plain Organization: InfoCamere S.C.p.A Message-Id: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6-1mdk Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:23 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] File menu applet X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: daniele.levorato@infocamere.it List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:52:25 -0000 Hi All, Some time ago (well I think during gnome 1.4 release) there was a very helpfull applet... called "File Menu" applet or something similar. This applet allowed users to "quick browse" the filesystem like a menu where files are items and sub-directory are sub-menus. When you use Gnome as your "personal productivity instrument" at work, like me, with many-many-many windows opened and you have to quickly use a file or take a look at a directory content, that applet would be very usefull! Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a gnome-terminal and use that TAB-auto-completion feature and the "ls" command. This issue is obviously related to the usability, the way Gnome allows user to quikly interact with filesystems. ... However that applet is still available from the internet... Does someone succeded in installing that applet? ... I tried to compile it by myself (after downloading from the internet) but it seems too old to work with gnome2. Is there something similar or planned for the Gnome2 platform? In my opinion that would be very usefull... the "Open recent" sometimes comes in help but it's a different thing... just think that in KDE such a feature is present and I even used it many times with gnome 1.4. What do you think? Any suggestion? From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Thu Jul 22 08:31:44 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 53F123B072E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanczos.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 22 Jul 2004 13:31:43 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:31:41 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: Daniele Levorato Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:31:44 -0000 > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and you can turn on the tree view. There is a gconf key to turn off spatial Nautilus, I dont know it offhand (and I forget if there is preference for it in the GUI but I dont think there is). I'll have to leave your actual question for someone else to answer. - Alan H. From daniele.levorato@infocamere.it Thu Jul 22 09:06:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from lxme02.infocamere.it (lxme02.infocamere.it [80.82.0.240]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07F53B0C5B for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxm02.icnet (lxm02.icnet [1.5.0.11]) by lxme02.infocamere.it (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6MD61Yc004730; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:06:01 +0200 Received: from lxm02.icnet (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6MD5ubJ017319; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:05:56 +0200 Received: from [1.6.64.213] (weipda064-213.icnet [1.6.64.213]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6MD5uL1017314; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:05:56 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Daniele Levorato To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: InfoCamere S.C.p.A Message-Id: <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6-1mdk Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:06:02 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: daniele.levorato@infocamere.it List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:06:07 -0000 Thanks, however I know there's even a way even to start Nautilus in the old-style using a command line parameter. The problem is not new nautilus vs. old nautilus (I'm really using gnome 2.4 so I can't use spatial nautilus at all) but to find a more usable way (than the term-commands and than nautilus) to quickly browse filesystem... and this "way" should be accessible from menu or panel (the only desktop elements that can be always on top and directly accessible without iconifying all the other windows). I really can't find anything more usefull than a "file menu" applet from the gnome-panel or gnome-menu (like KDE does). On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 14:31, Alan Horkan wrote: > > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a > > You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if > you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and > you can turn on the tree view. > > There is a gconf key to turn off spatial Nautilus, I dont know it offhand > (and I forget if there is preference for it in the GUI but I dont think > there is). > > I'll have to leave your actual question for someone else to answer. > > - Alan H. From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Thu Jul 22 11:20:32 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 757FE3B07E3 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanczos.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 22 Jul 2004 16:20:27 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:20:27 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: "Adam D. Lopresto" Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:20:32 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (CDT) > From: Adam D. Lopresto > To: Alan Horkan > Cc: Daniele Levorato , > Gnome Usability List > Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet > > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Alan Horkan wrote: > > > > > > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > > > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > > > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > > > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a > > > > You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if > > you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and > > you can turn on the tree view. > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to behave. - Alan From mnews22@wp.pl Thu Jul 22 11:26:16 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp.wp.pl (smtp.wp.pl [212.77.101.160]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B663B07EE for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (wp-smtpd smtp.wp.pl 29906 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2004 17:26:14 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO megumi) (mnews22@[195.116.35.55]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp.wp.pl (WP-SMTPD) with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP for ; 22 Jul 2004 17:26:14 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Maciej Katafiasz To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Message-Id: <1090510143.2810.1.camel@megumi> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:29:03 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-WP-AV: skaner antywirusowy poczty Wirtualnej Polski S. A. X-WP-AS1: NOSPAM Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-WP-AS3: NOSPAM X-WP-SPAM: NO Cc: Gnome Usability List , "Adam D. Lopresto" X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:26:16 -0000 W liście z czw, 22-07-2004, godz. 17:20, Alan Horkan pisze: > > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. > > You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh > Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree > View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as > I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) > > I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a > tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to > behave. AFAIK, it's already somewhere on TODO list. It's really cool feature, and contributes to great classic finder usability. Cheers, Maciej -- "Tautologizm to coś tautologicznego" Maciej Katafiasz http://mathrick.blog.pl From uno@webworks.se Thu Jul 22 12:04:45 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ths.se (unknown [213.80.77.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5131B3B0B8D for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (as4-1-5.sp.m.bonet.se [194.236.103.230]) by ths.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B08E7407A; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:04:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:04:29 +0200 From: Uno Engborg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040619 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: daniele.levorato@infocamere.it Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> In-Reply-To: <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms070806050802040107000003" Cc: Gnome Usability List , Alan Horkan X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:04:45 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070806050802040107000003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniele Levorato wrote: >Thanks, >however I know there's even a way even to start Nautilus in the >old-style using a command line parameter. The problem is not new >nautilus vs. old nautilus (I'm really using gnome 2.4 so I can't use >spatial nautilus at all) but to find a more usable way (than the >term-commands and than nautilus) to quickly browse filesystem... and >this "way" should be accessible from menu or panel (the only desktop >elements that can be always on top and directly accessible without >iconifying all the other windows). >I really can't find anything more usefull than a "file menu" applet from >the gnome-panel or gnome-menu (like KDE does). > I agree, we need a simple way to navigate the file system. The spatial mode fit the needs of most everyday users that have their own files in their home directories. For system administraiotn annd other situations where you need deep folder structures it we need some way of quickly navigate to a different part of the file system. My suggestion is that we expand the functionality of the popup menu in the bottom left corner of spatial nautilus windows. Today the menu items consists of the directory hierarchy to /. Why not expand this so that it even contained the sibling direcories on in a submenu at each level. E.g: / /home>|/usr |/etc |/var |/opt But for this to work we would probably need a new type of popup menu. One that doesn't pop up the popup until the mouse is moved out on the arrow. That way the base element of the menu would be selectable on its own. Regards Uno Engborg --------------ms070806050802040107000003 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJUTCC AwMwggJsoAMCAQICAwrVhTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UE ChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNv bmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwHhcNMDMwOTMwMTI0MjA1WhcNMDQwOTI5MTI0MjA1 WjBWMRAwDgYDVQQEEwdFbmdib3JnMQwwCgYDVQQqEwNVbm8xFDASBgNVBAMTC1VubyBFbmdi b3JnMR4wHAYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFg91bm9Ad2Vid29ya3Muc2UwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUA A4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDJf0gFD4K1uNvxnw3v79nZtGrrLsvDxStBwQt4Z70+TqZsOxaVQkQs IwPZ86u+bPbs11VBOOAziBjDmZ9jB+PwhTHOy6InEUu8VdgElTuRZCVWHZ+RCm4t/0PFOgwf OXr4cfnZgLlhE8GtmBysKcC9jcl0FQcQtgVZ+dAaAP8tvuphHL9Tewlad8PGcmOslcN7f0No LgQ9qJIeKDO4RUv5YrkyKfTsN7cYC2MxvLiDsG2fEHM8REaVPI+1qKP7KJzlMbsWD4JoZ8JM w6dZptenPqd93XzjuC++WilEdGmXz02kmUHTR16ZwhlKpEZg+WY/zZ60Ew+wam0vWi5WK32p AgMBAAGjTzBNMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwID+DARBglghkgBhvhCAQEEBAMCBaAwGgYDVR0RBBMw EYEPdW5vQHdlYndvcmtzLnNlMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEAguLe yFi0bjUojU82XcocmpGchtkTJhTjUBRYAfxl1hITsFnSAuHhwF72tZcb0Ker4FO8477Krf7u HwsD0j08lYUoKsGAmmuOnWMShNdUGY0aM8HJHAZoFAGu9Y4rZKPgpFjwlRKLBFgCzSrDLex7 KoSIAa56iTnpx3iqojUm4sMwggMDMIICbKADAgECAgMK1YUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQAwYjEL MAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAq BgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTAzMDkzMDEy NDIwNVoXDTA0MDkyOTEyNDIwNVowVjEQMA4GA1UEBBMHRW5nYm9yZzEMMAoGA1UEKhMDVW5v MRQwEgYDVQQDEwtVbm8gRW5nYm9yZzEeMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYPdW5vQHdlYndvcmtzLnNl MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAyX9IBQ+Ctbjb8Z8N7+/Z2bRq6y7L w8UrQcELeGe9Pk6mbDsWlUJELCMD2fOrvmz27NdVQTjgM4gYw5mfYwfj8IUxzsuiJxFLvFXY BJU7kWQlVh2fkQpuLf9DxToMHzl6+HH52YC5YRPBrZgcrCnAvY3JdBUHELYFWfnQGgD/Lb7q YRy/U3sJWnfDxnJjrJXDe39DaC4EPaiSHigzuEVL+WK5Min07De3GAtjMby4g7BtnxBzPERG lTyPtaij+yic5TG7Fg+CaGfCTMOnWabXpz6nfd1847gvvlopRHRpl89NpJlB00demcIZSqRG YPlmP82etBMPsGptL1ouVit9qQIDAQABo08wTTAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCA/gwEQYJYIZIAYb4 QgEBBAQDAgWgMBoGA1UdEQQTMBGBD3Vub0B3ZWJ3b3Jrcy5zZTAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMA0G CSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBAILi3shYtG41KI1PNl3KHJqRnIbZEyYU41AUWAH8ZdYSE7BZ0gLh 4cBe9rWXG9Cnq+BTvOO+yq3+7h8LA9I9PJWFKCrBgJprjp1jEoTXVBmNGjPByRwGaBQBrvWO K2Sj4KRY8JUSiwRYAs0qwy3seyqEiAGueok56cd4qqI1JuLDMIIDPzCCAqigAwIBAgIBDTAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCB0TELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTATBgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTES MBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMRowGAYDVQQKExFUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZzEoMCYGA1UE CxMfQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBTZXJ2aWNlcyBEaXZpc2lvbjEkMCIGA1UEAxMbVGhhd3RlIFBl cnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIENBMSswKQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhxwZXJzb25hbC1mcmVlbWFpbEB0 aGF3dGUuY29tMB4XDTAzMDcxNzAwMDAwMFoXDTEzMDcxNjIzNTk1OVowYjELMAkGA1UEBhMC WkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1Ro YXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GN ADCBiQKBgQDEpjxVc1X7TrnKmVoeaMB1BHCd3+n/ox7svc31W/Iadr1/DDph8r9RzgHU5VAK MNcCY1osiRVwjt3J8CuFWqo/cVbLrzwLB+fxH5E2JCoTzyvV84J3PQO+K/67GD4Hv0CAAmTX p6a7n2XRxSpUhQ9IBH+nttE8YQRAHmQZcmC3+wIDAQABo4GUMIGRMBIGA1UdEwEB/wQIMAYB Af8CAQAwQwYDVR0fBDwwOjA4oDagNIYyaHR0cDovL2NybC50aGF3dGUuY29tL1RoYXd0ZVBl cnNvbmFsRnJlZW1haWxDQS5jcmwwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgEGMCkGA1UdEQQiMCCkHjAcMRowGAYD VQQDExFQcml2YXRlTGFiZWwyLTEzODANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOBgQBIjNFQg+oLLswNo2as Zw9/r6y+whehQ5aUnX9MIbj4Nh+qLZ82L8D0HFAgk3A8/a3hYWLD2ToZfoSxmRsAxRoLgnSe JVCUYsfbJ3FXJY3dqZw5jowgT2Vfldr394fWxghOrvbqNOUQGls1TXfjViF4gtwhGTXeJLHT HUb/XV9lTzGCAzswggM3AgEBMGkwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBD b25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFp bCBJc3N1aW5nIENBAgMK1YUwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCAacwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3 DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMDQwNzIyMTYwNDI5WjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQU1Pm3 MIPCzwTRmkD6TmPRKkcv2BUwUgYJKoZIhvcNAQkPMUUwQzAKBggqhkiG9w0DBzAOBggqhkiG 9w0DAgICAIAwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICAUAwBwYFKw4DAgcwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICASgweAYJKwYB BAGCNxAEMWswaTBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcg KFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3Vpbmcg Q0ECAwrVhTB6BgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzFroGkwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRo YXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBG cmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBAgMK1YUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAn91XhEUtopZtIg1D h1lkVT4h+SIARiiBsW11M/Nx/eFGIus/0qsR6ZM+LUhD/IMGPl/v0Q611fHPBkCo6F+XWFv6 udA2V4wGoe+6pnWYI+Wx4E7mBNBFyPB+cHw9qRfuwNs070427QNkXUrZflcmCKczTcSQv0pf zAoQ49opx/mud9dcNXUDyNarTu8kZfrRrax7hkIvSZdXenY4JGB129IzXOvsOwfOOxHZ9TB9 u56JcPohmq8NoX4Bd5GLSuwrarWt29zpvwVAc1ppCLClazhx/kj2o4ihFG9dSvs1rKaMI+Yx E/JEZtLsDjxpN9QHRSVUYzvfTZ4uA2nlYfb01gAAAAAAAA== --------------ms070806050802040107000003-- From NQG24419@nifty.com Thu Jul 22 12:39:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail503.nifty.com (mail503.nifty.com [202.248.37.211]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BEAC3B0DCC for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [61.121.47.61] (ntnara027061.nara.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp [61.121.47.61])by mail503.nifty.com with ESMTP id i6MGdGer002571; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:39:16 +0900 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Ryan McDougall To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:45:58 +0900 Message-Id: <1090514758.2666.14.camel@SEMPUKI> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 (1.5.9.1-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome Usability List , "Adam D. Lopresto" X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:39:21 -0000 On Thu, 2004-22-07 at 16:20 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > > > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. > > You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh > Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree > View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as > I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) > > I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a > tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to > behave. > > - Alan IIRC Alex has stated that it was always his intention of providing more than two navigation modes, and mac style tree was on his list. Can't recall the email though, somewhere in the archives ... Cheers, Ryan From jamiemcc@blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jul 22 12:45:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17BF33B0D53 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [82.32.13.166] ([82.32.13.166]) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:45:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Jamie McCracken To: Ryan McDougall In-Reply-To: <1090514758.2666.14.camel@SEMPUKI> References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090514758.2666.14.camel@SEMPUKI> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090514721.2892.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:45:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jul 2004 16:45:28.0437 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B5A3250:01C4700B] Cc: Gnome Usability List , Alan Horkan , "Adam D. Lopresto" X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:45:11 -0000 On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 17:45, Ryan McDougall wrote: > On Thu, 2004-22-07 at 16:20 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > > > > > > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > > > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > > > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > > > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > > > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. > > > > You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh > > Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree > > View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as > > I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) > > > > I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a > > tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to > > behave. > > > > - Alan > > IIRC Alex has stated that it was always his intention of providing more > than two navigation modes, and mac style tree was on his list. > > Can't recall the email though, somewhere in the archives ... Yup I read somewhere that one of the developers was creating a new view that combines a tree view with a list view (IE exactly like Konquerors tree view). Of course the view can be in a spatial window and therefore you would get the same effect. I personally dont like the tree/list view combo but thats just my opinion - if it makes life easier for spatial users then what the heck! jamie. > > Cheers, > Ryan > > _______________________________________________ > Usability mailing list > Usability@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability > > From twanger@bluetwanger.de Fri Jul 23 05:15:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from web11.manitu.net (web11.manitu.net [217.11.48.111]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671673B0BBE; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [62.165.4.166] (dicaprio.akademie1.de [62.165.4.166]) (authenticated) by web11.manitu.net (8.10.2-SOL3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i6N9FKf02009; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:15:20 +0200 From: Markus Bertheau To: nautilus-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090574120.3241.15.camel@dicaprio.akademie1.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:15:20 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] nautilus behaviour when selected file is changed X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:15:28 -0000 Hi, I just observed the following behaviour in nautilus 2.4.0. I don't have a newer version to test with at work. I wonder if the behaviour I observed was done on purpose. If it was not done on purpose, do we want the current behaviour to happen or something else? (That's why I'm sending a copy to usability@). 0. have fam/gamin working 1. select a file 2. touch it from a shell or otherwise change it 3. observe how the file is unselected and the next file in the directory gets a frame around its name, but is not selected. Thanks -- Markus Bertheau From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Fri Jul 23 07:16:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-mx-03.ti.local (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F232F3B0FBF; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.105]) by smtp-mx-03.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:16:22 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:57:55 -0300 Received: from smtp-mx-01.ti.local ([192.168.220.20]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:32:26 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-05.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.168]) by smtp-mx-01.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:49:53 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191168.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 16:47:41 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ACF33B095B; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:49:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5453B0B81; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6B580F68; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F6B535.4090303@pochta.ru> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "" References: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.2.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in, gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2004 16:49:53.0295 (UTC) FILETIME=[C05411F0:01C46A8B] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:16:43 -0000 > A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is > the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. Well, it is not exactly up to gnome - all this data comes from X server. Sure, we can submit patches to xorg and xfree - but we cannot count on them in foreseeble future. Also, lengthy textual description sometimes is more confusing than just a glance onto the image. > You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Cool! I will work on it one gtkgl makes its way into the gnome libs:) > Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. AFAIK xkeycaps does not use xkb geometry, does it? The "beauty" of our image is mostly limited by that info. > Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours > and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can > work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in > the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and > perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. True, "test mode" is another solution to a problem. But it is actually not far from the solution of my friend - just open the text editor and press evey key twice (to say the truth, I see no difference other than ability to test safely special keys by grabbing the entire keyboard input). IMHO this solution is less usable. > (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a > toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input > to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. > It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, > as you could "program" them independently of the application) By any chance, don't you remember the name of the app? Just to have a look, you know. So, summing things up, the only viable solution so far is to use GtkExtender, putting it under the notebook. Are there other viable solutions? Sergey _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From adam@pubcrawler.org Thu Jul 22 10:55:47 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from postal.seas.wustl.edu (postal.seas.wustl.edu [128.252.21.102]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38ACA3B0D14 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clarion.cec.wustl.edu (clarion.cec.wustl.edu [128.252.21.3]) by postal.seas.wustl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6MEqCE28518; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:52:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (adam@localhost) by clarion.cec.wustl.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i6MEtghj021620; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: clarion.cec.wustl.edu: adam owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "Adam D. Lopresto" To: Alan Horkan Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, -7.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Report: -7.1/5.0 ---- Start SpamAssassin results -7.10 points, 5 required; * 0.0 -- Message-Id indicates a non-spam MUA (Pine) * -0.0 -- Has a valid-looking References header * -0.4 -- Has a X-Authentication-Warning header * -0.4 -- Has a In-Reply-To header * -0.5 -- BODY: Contains what looks like an email attribution * -5.4 -- BODY: Bayesian classifier says spam probability is 1 to 10% [score: 0.0647] * -0.4 -- BODY: Contains what looks like a quoted email text * 0.0 -- Reply with quoted text ---- End of SpamAssassin results X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 08:15:00 -0400 Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:55:47 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Alan Horkan wrote: > > > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a > > You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if > you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and > you can turn on the tree view. While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. (Also should have all the normal nautilus nifty stuff, like open folders being highlighted, middle double clicking a folder should open it and close the tree view, should be in the menu from any folder window, possibly should even have an interface to the bookmarks, etc). -- Adam Lopresto http://cec.wustl.edu/~adam/ Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject. From jrn5a@cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu Thu Jul 22 13:45:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu (guppy.mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.218]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457263B0DC8 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.143.22.8] (account jrn5a@cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu) by cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.1.8) with HTTP id 91453559 for usability@gnome.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:45:07 -0400 From: "Justin Ryan Nevitt" To: usability@gnome.org X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro WebUser Interface v.4.1.8 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:45:07 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 08:15:29 -0400 Subject: [Usability] sound as user interface aid X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:45:11 -0000 Ok so i had this idea...which is based on some work i've done/encountered with the auditory community but I don't know where I should go to start the project. I was thinking the KDE team or gnome team might be interested or i might start my own sourceforge project (though I've never managed a project there)...the intention is for it to be opensource and available to everyone: Proposal: Sound Localization Sound Layer Introduction It has been shown in many different studies that users are more efficient in a multi-task environment where sound is used to direct their attention. This is especially true in immersive environments such as airplane cockpits and so called ?information cockpits? (I know i should cite someone here). For example a pilot benefits greatly from hearing alerts, which seem to come from the object that needs attention. Similarly, there are business and home applications for this type of attention management. For instance an alert could direct you to the physical location of your mailbox when you have a new message or it could alert you to a window containing a rapidly climbing stock price. The idea: The idea for this project is to create a sound layer/plugin that brings sound localization type attention management to the everyday PC. This layer should be made to work on linux and windows machines and will be opensource. Implementation: The implementation of this idea should be fairly straightforward. At its simplest level the layer will take information about application or icon location and modify the panning of sound output to direct attention to particular areas of the desktop. The application should be no harder to write than a simple mixer (although it should be able to play sounds at different panning locations at the same time.) The program should also have a tiny memory footprint. Additional adjustable parameters: Intensity of panning Individual application settings People probably will not want their music to be localized Should be easy to turn on and off (tray icon possibly) Turn real time panning on and off If someone moves a window while it is creating sound will the panning move with it or will it reset only after the window is dropped? The bottom line is...this attention management stuff is nothing new. However, it has always been implemented on the application level and never as part of a sound layer or a interface plugin. From reinout@cs.vu.nl Sun Jul 25 17:48:50 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from flits.cs.vu.nl (flits.cs.vu.nl [192.31.231.65]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1283B106E for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 17:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flits.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #91) id m1BoqrO-0001wiC; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48 +0200 Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Gnome Usability List Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:48:51 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Uno Engborg wrote: > But for this to work we would probably need a new type of popup menu. > One that doesn't pop up the popup until the mouse is moved out on the > arrow. That way the base element of the menu would be selectable on > its own. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82162 regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 Against Software Patents in the EU - swpat.ffii.org From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:47:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FDE33B0E46 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m69so58639rne for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.75.57 with SMTP id x57mr97642rna; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:47:21 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:48:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7793B10DD for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so70853rnk for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.12.79 with SMTP id 79mr497684rnl; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:17 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:48:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.200]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD43C3B10D6 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so70861rnk for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.12.79 with SMTP id 79mr497780rnl; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:21 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:48:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA393B0A07 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so70858rnk for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.12.79 with SMTP id 79mr497753rnl; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:21 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From julo@altern.org Mon Jul 26 05:17:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60FF53B117A for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 05:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [213.36.36.149] (213.36.36.149) by mail.libertysurf.net (6.5.036) id 41048CB500067A2A for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:15:03 +0200 From: Julien Olivier To: Gnome Usability List Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:14:58 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:17:23 -0000 Hi Here are a few ideas I submitted to bugzilla.gnome.org (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131544) about Rhythmbox, but never got any comment. So I decided to forward them here, hoping that it could get more attention: Watching my friends use Rhythmbox on my computer, I noticed that the current search interface can be confusing in 2 common scenarii: 1st one: - You are looking for a song using the browser. - You set the artist/album but can't find the song in the (filtered) list - You then try using the search dialog In this scenario, the search will fail because the user forgot to reset the filters to all artists/all albums. I saw that happening a lot (always actually) when other people used rhythmbox. My proposition would be to automatically reset the artist/album filters when you perform a new search. But I guess some people wouldn't like it... So another solution would be to have the following UI: Search [ ] among |songs from [name of the artist]| |songs from [name of the album] | |all songs | 2nd one: - You are looking for a song named "Penny Lane" using the search field - You found your song and play it - You then click on an artist in the artist list (for example "Madonna") In this scenario, nothing appears in the song list because the user forgot to reset the search (by selecting "Penny Lane" and pressing DEL). And as Madonna never sang Penny Lane (AFAIK), nothing appears. My proposition would be simply blank the search field when changing the artist or the album filter. What do you think of those propositions ? -- Julien Olivier From jcs116@york.ac.uk Mon Jul 26 05:39:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk (pythagoras.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.140]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F5F3B08A5 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 05:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [82.68.105.97] (helo=slate.badgerhaus) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Bp1wo-0007lH-2G for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:06 +0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: John Spray To: Gnome Usability List In-Reply-To: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:39:00 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.105.97] X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:07 -0000 On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 10:14, Julien Olivier wrote: > Search [ ] among |songs from [name of the artist]| > |songs from [name of the album] | > |all songs | I'm not sure I understand how you're suggesting that interface be laid out onscreen. Is this to be an extra list box in the main window? > My proposition would be simply blank the search field when changing the > artist or the album filter. I completely understand the motivation for doing this: I've thought about it myself. However, I think it depends upon the idea that the user uses the search box primarily for searching the whole library. The current functionality of the search box includes searches limited by artist(s) or album(s): to blank the search box when selecting artists demands that the user specify first the artist, then the search. It's an arbitrary limitation on the user, and it's not obvious that that's going to happen. I agree that the search box presents UI problems. Here are a couple of ideas of my own: -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to manually clear the search box. -Change the functionality of the search box. Given that its primary function is for search the whole library (since in most cases a particular artist can be searched by eye), perhaps this should be made its only function? A longer label such as "Search the whole library", and when there's text in that box, disable the artist/album/genre lists and have the song list present results from the whole library. My second suggestion is clearly a sacrifice of functionality for clearer UI: its implementation would depends entirely on how severe people think the search box UI problems are. -- John Spray From julo@altern.org Mon Jul 26 08:57:39 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373663B0828 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [213.36.36.30] (213.36.36.30) by mail.libertysurf.net (6.5.036) id 4104E88000038137; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:57:34 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: Julien Olivier To: John Spray In-Reply-To: <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:57:34 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:57:39 -0000 On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 11:39, John Spray wrote: > On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 10:14, Julien Olivier wrote: > > Search [ ] among |songs from [name of the artist]| > > |songs from [name of the album] | > > |all songs | > I'm not sure I understand how you're suggesting that interface be laid > out onscreen. Is this to be an extra list box in the main window? > I was thinking of a 1-line select box, like the one next to "save to folder" in GNOME's files save dialog. But maybe a radio box would be better, even if it takes more room (the advantage being that you can see all the choices at the same time...). > I agree that the search box presents UI problems. Here are a couple of > ideas of my own: > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > manually clear the search box. > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... > -Change the functionality of the search box. Given that its primary > function is for search the whole library (since in most cases a > particular artist can be searched by eye), perhaps this should be made > its only function? A longer label such as "Search the whole library", > and when there's text in that box, disable the artist/album/genre lists > and have the song list present results from the whole library. > My second suggestion is clearly a sacrifice of functionality for clearer > UI: its implementation would depends entirely on how severe people think > the search box UI problems are. I wouldn't mind the loss of functionality that your proposition would induce, as I only use the search box to look for music in the whole collection. But I guess it could disturb other users... -- Julien Olivier From boris@alum.mit.edu Mon Jul 26 09:39:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39ACB3B068A for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Info: This message was accepted for relay by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net as the sender used SMTP authentication X-Trace: HwC5moIL0Cj6ICE04et8LdDWSqgyHedmjQmx+ZjAjGMIBpQOHKZ8Cw== Received: from dialup-4.156.99.4.dial1.boston1.level3.net ([4.156.99.4] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #7) id 1Bp5hE-0006ZP-00; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <446FD022-DF09-11D8-85D9-00306578F772@alum.mit.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Boris Goldowsky Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:50 -0400 To: John Spray X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:39:18 -0000 On Jul 26, 2004, at 5:39 AM, John Spray wrote: > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > manually clear the search box. I think that would be very helpful; the blank screen is quite uninformative. The annoyance of clearing the search box could be alleviated by providing a clear button so it only takes one click. The clear button should be available any time there's text in the search box; not just when there are no search results. I hate saying "let's do it just like this other OS", but as a user of both Gnome and Mac OS X, one thing I've grown to love about OS X is the search box that is used across applications: it is visually distinctive, so it doesn't even require a label, and it manages to contain controls for adjusting the scope of the search and a clear button, without taking up much extra space. (There's a screenshot at http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/finder/). It would be nice to think about this issue beyond rhythmbox, and establish some Gnome-wide consistency about how searches and their related controls are presented. Bng -- Boris Goldowsky From smoke@medien.akbild.ac.at Mon Jul 26 13:47:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from viefep16-int.chello.at (viefep16-int.chello.at [213.46.255.17]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9E03B0796 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [80.110.99.166] by viefep16-int.chello.at (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20040726174742.CPEF28397.viefep16-int.chello.at@[80.110.99.166]> for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:47:42 +0200 Received: from smoke by 80.110.99.166 with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1Bp9Ze-0000s7-00 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:47:42 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: markus hammer To: Gnome UI In-Reply-To: <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: sabotage communications Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:47:41 +0200 Message-Id: <1090864061.3241.1.camel@80.110.99.166> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Sender: markus hammer X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:47:47 -0000 Am Mon, den 26.07.2004 um 14:57 Uhr +0200 schrieb Julien Olivier: > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > > manually clear the search box. > > > > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found > no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... good idea, users need feedback on whats happening inside the computer, giving a blank Space with no feedback is not very user friendly... -- markus hammer hm@sabotage.at From menesis@chatsubo.lt Mon Jul 26 13:54:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from kauneta.net (net-253.kal.kalnieciai.lt [81.7.65.253]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFA43B0808 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.16.1.48] (helo=maumas) by kauneta.net with smtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Bp9eg-000B71-82; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:52:55 +0300 Received: by maumas (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:54:03 +0300 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: Gediminas Paulauskas To: Julien Olivier In-Reply-To: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:54:03 +0300 Message-Id: <1090864443.4408.21.camel@maumas> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:54:09 -0000 On Pr, 2004-07-26 at 11:14 +0200, Julien Olivier wrote: > Hi > > Here are a few ideas I submitted to bugzilla.gnome.org > (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131544) about Rhythmbox, but > never got any comment. So I decided to forward them here, hoping that it > could get more attention: In both cases one solution would help: If search field is used together with album/artist filters, display a small warning bar at the top of search results, saying: "You have entered search criteria while some filters were active. Search the whole library.", where "Search..." string is a link which unsets the filters and executes the search. In second case display similar warning with different text, and clear the search field when link is clicked. This way the behavior would not change at all, allow people to search the old way and also make it possible to quickly correct their mistake. Warning bar is used in Microsoft Outlook for various mail display options, Mozilla Thunderbird for junk mail, yet unreleased IE 6 in SP2 and Mozilla Firefox nightlies for blocked popups & installs. See http://www.neilturner.me.uk/2004/Jul/13/more_on_new_firefox_features.html section "Information bar" for screenshots. menesis From jrockway@gmail.com Wed Jul 28 22:54:08 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D933B0E49 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 22:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so243686rnk for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 19:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.78.51 with SMTP id a51mr99621rnb; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 19:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <285fe7b10407281954330235f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:54:04 -0500 From: Jonathan Rockway To: usability@gnome.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] suggestions for the nautilus cd creator "start" dialog X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:54:08 -0000 Hi there. I'm new to the list, but I'd like to get involved in the GNOME project (and Usability is my favorite topic). Anyway, I have two suggestions for the Nautilus CD Creator. Firstly, there is a distinct absence of a "Cancel" button. To cancel, one must click the close button that the WM provides. This seems a bit unclean (and unclear) to me. Secondly, it would be nice to show the capacity of the media to which you are recording. There are several cases: partially full multi-session CDs, DVDs, non-standard CDs (the new 1000MB ones?), and it is unclear to the user as to what the program is going to do. I put 3 gigs in the folder and expected an error after I clicked start due to my drive being a DVD drive. However, everything worked fine. Ideally I shouldn't have to guess about this; a used/free indicator would be nice. Have a good evening, everyone. -- Jonathan Rockway From duffy@rpi.edu Thu Jul 29 02:02:28 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ares.penguinhosting.net (ares.penguinhosting.net [205.231.149.48]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9042D3B08C2 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29216 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ares.penguinhosting.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (ares.penguinhosting.net) Received: from [66.92.67.39] (authenticated as maureen) by ares.penguinhosting.net (MessageWall 1.0.9-test2) with SMTP; 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn?= Duffy To: Gnome Usability List In-Reply-To: <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:01:32 -0400 Message-Id: <1091080892.2655.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 (1.5.91-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 14:57 +0200, Julien Olivier wrote: > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found > no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... This is a great idea. What do you think of taking it a step further and perhaps above the track listings where the search results appear, have a sentence telling you what you are currently viewing, ie: Search [walrus] Genre Artist Album [ ] [ The Beatles ] [ ] The following are tracks in your collection by the artist "The Beatles" that contain the term "walrus:" Track Title etc. [ "I am the Walrus" The Beatles ] When you are viewing all, it could just say "The following are all of the tracks in your collection:" Maybe overkill? I think it might make what you're actually looking at clearer (although I'm not sure how many users would want to take the time to read it? But -it's short enough that you can glance at it. It may be less of a cognitive load to read a sentence than to parse all of the selection boxes and come up with that sentence in your head if that makes sense.) -It also shouldn't take up that much space. -It may be a better solution than Julien's very good suggestion of having a drop-down so users could pick "search from album/artist/all" because users may get the impression that you couldn't search for example, for all songs by Phish in a "live music" genre, using two filters at the same time. I feel strongly that the functionality of the search box doesn't have to be impaired, especially because I feel that there are solutions for making the state of the track listing window clearer to the user to clear up the search box "no results" confusion. ~Máirín From liste@pimpzkru.de Thu Jul 29 02:07:06 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail-out.m-online.net (mail-out.m-online.net [212.18.0.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 723543B0734 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.m-online.net (svr14.m-online.net [192.168.3.144]) by svr8.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781CF52C60 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pimpzkru.dyndns.org (ppp-82-135-1-142.mnet-online.de [82.135.1.142]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A35EF4EB for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pimpzkru.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5B5CB6BC for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pimpzkru.dyndns.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vegaserver [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12532-05 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.169.18.2] (renatepc.pimpzkru [10.169.18.2]) (using SSLv3 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pimpzkru.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3263CB6BB for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: Sebastian Heinlein To: usability@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1090864061.3241.1.camel@80.110.99.166> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> <1090864061.3241.1.camel@80.110.99.166> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:28 +0200 Message-Id: <1091081188.22632.5.camel@renatepc.pimpzkru> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p9 (Debian) at the GeekWG X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 06:07:06 -0000 Am Montag, den 26.07.2004, 19:47 +0200 schrieb markus hammer: > Am Mon, den 26.07.2004 um 14:57 Uhr +0200 schrieb Julien Olivier: > > > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > > > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > > > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > > > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > > > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > > > manually clear the search box. > > > > > > > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found > > no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... > > good idea, users need feedback on whats happening inside the computer, > giving a blank Space with no feedback is not very user friendly... I am also interested in this discussion, since I work on the synaptic package manager and we thought about implementing such an instant search to provide a faster access to the large number of packages available in some distrus (there are nearly 15000 packages in Debian). Regards, Sebastian From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Thu Jul 29 11:57:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B52E3B1040 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:57:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-eris-2 ([129.156.85.26]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6TFvrin001776 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.eris-mail1.uk.sun.com by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0I1M00601EUNGS@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for usability@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:57:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from cdelab89.ireland.sun.com (cdelab89.Ireland.Sun.COM [129.156.226.189]) by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I1M002IWF0HTW@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:57:53 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:58:11 +0100 From: Calum Benson Subject: Re: [Usability] suggestions for the nautilus cd creator "start" dialog In-reply-to: <285fe7b10407281954330235f@mail.gmail.com> To: Jonathan Rockway Message-id: <1091116691.21153.45.camel@cdelab89.ireland.sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsytems Ireland Ltd. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <285fe7b10407281954330235f@mail.gmail.com> Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 15:57:57 -0000 On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 03:54, Jonathan Rockway wrote: > Anyway, I have two suggestions for the Nautilus CD Creator. Welcome aboard! For requests/fixes as concrete as these ones against existing products, it's probably better just to file them at bugzilla.gnome.org, cc'ing usability-maint@bugzilla.gnome.org and adding the usability keyword... this list is better for the more general arm-waving kind of stuff :) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From davyd@madeley.id.au Sat Jul 31 03:10:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au [203.56.14.38]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D636E3B1130 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 03:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pingu.cook.theducks.org (cook.theducks.org [203.22.197.49]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C125E1F8002 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:10:34 +0800 (WST) From: Davyd Madeley To: usability@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El" Message-Id: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Resent-From: Davyd Madeley Resent-To: usability@gnome.org Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:10:17 +0800 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 Resent-Message-Id: <20040731071034.C125E1F8002@oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au> Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:10:34 +0800 (WST) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:58:31 -0400 Subject: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 07:10:20 -0000 --=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I need some advice from the gurus who dwell here. 1) how should this dialog look in your eyes? http://davyd.angrygoats.net/images/battstat-applet-sample.png and 2) should I merge this patch? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D131322#c9 regards --d PS: please CC, not on list --=20 http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/ =20 PGP Fingerprint 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA --=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/pgp/ iD8DBQBBCwXjLt27T1GRbNoRAujVAKCq4xspy/CzhUg9BjRH8q0t9J4jgwCdG62/ yK748ws6prm3hOedqdGM+mk= =XYOU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El-- From stevelist@silverorange.com Sat Jul 31 10:20:00 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from nova.silverorange.com (nova.silverorange.com [198.167.161.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5683B1346 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (unknown [142.176.234.122]) by nova.silverorange.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EFE7C2496; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:19:57 -0300 (ADT) Message-ID: <410BAA8D.7010207@silverorange.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:19:57 -0300 From: Steven Garrity User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040519) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Davyd Madeley Subject: Re: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus References: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> In-Reply-To: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 14:20:00 -0000 Davyd Madeley wrote: > 1) how should this dialog look in your eyes? > http://davyd.angrygoats.net/images/battstat-applet-sample.png Not a whole lot different than it does now. However, I think it should have a primary header message, with a more detail message below, as in explained and shown in example in this section of the Human Interface Guidelines: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/windows-alert.html#alert-text The strong (bold) heading will follow the HIG, and make the dialog easier to 'scan' and quickly recognize. Thanks, Steven Garrity From reinout@cs.vu.nl Sat Jul 31 11:25:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from flits.cs.vu.nl (flits.cs.vu.nl [192.31.231.65]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA153B0789 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flits.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #95) id m1BqvkC-0001vdC; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:25 +0200 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:25:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Davyd Madeley Subject: Re: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus In-Reply-To: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> Message-ID: References: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:25:57 -0000 On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Davyd Madeley wrote: > 1) how should this dialog look in your eyes? In addition to what Steven already said: the alert should probably use the stock information icon (light bulb). Furthermore the string '(0%, charged)' looks a bit cryptic. 'Charged' seems to indicate the opposite of what the message is warning against. It might as well be omitted. > should I merge this patch? > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131322#c9 Given the importance of the warning I'm inclined to say yes, provided that interaction with other windows isn't prohibited (i.e. don't make it system modal). good luck, -- Reinout van Schouwen Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 - wie helpt me aan een nieuwe kamer in/rond Amsterdam? - From reinout@cs.vu.nl Sat Jul 31 15:19:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from flits.cs.vu.nl (flits.cs.vu.nl [192.31.231.65]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DFC13B07E1 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flits.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #95) id m1BqzO6-0001vdC; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:19 +0200 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:19:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Davyd Madeley Subject: Re: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus In-Reply-To: <1091287861.2184.54.camel@pingu> Message-ID: References: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> <1091287861.2184.54.camel@pingu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 19:19:23 -0000 On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Davyd Madeley wrote: > My apologies for the string '0% charged', this is simply an effect of > what I did to simulate the dialog, normally it would say something like > (10%, 0:24 remaining) or something like that. In that case, I would suggest just '24 minutes remaining'. It's not clear offhand whether 0:24 means 24 seconds or 24 minutes... regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 - wie helpt me aan een nieuwe kamer in/rond Amsterdam? - From damianhaase01@yahoo.com Thu Jul 1 11:14:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.169.227]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 656693B0C39 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 11:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.3.79.2?) (damianhaase01@216.115.180.7 with login) by smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 15:13:17 -0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] desktop entry names, generic? From: Damian Haase To: usability@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1088693671.10252.32.camel@trout> References: <20040630160138.F05743B0F28@menubar.gnome.org> <1088693671.10252.32.camel@trout> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr" Message-Id: <1088695069.10252.39.camel@trout> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 11:17:50 -0400 X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:14:07 -0000 --=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 12:01, Bryan Clark wrote: > Applications outside of the core desktop should brand themselves as > they are, however the core desktop applications should be branded as > GNOME and that brand is simply not having one. > > > > I don't think this kind of branding is helping people, while we are > proud of the applications that make up the GNOME Desktop, each > application that's included in the desktop becomes part of GNOME as it > is integrated. I view us kind of like the Borg, resistance is futile > and you will be assimilated. Another thing to consider is scanability. If there are four Music Players installed (granted, maybe not a common case), and they all follow the format "_____ Music Player" with the GNOME default leaving off the "_____", then the menu would look something like this: Another Music Player Gary's Music Player Music Player Slick Music Player The issue I see here is that by asking all GNOME app developers to follow the "____ Music Player" format, the only distiguishing characteristic in a list of like items is the "____", and the GNOME default, lacking that distinguishing characteristic, may get lost in the noise. There may be other ways to allow an application to display its "primary" status than by altering the menu name. Perhaps some visual distinction, such as a highlight color, or even bold text. Maybe position in the list. This is a good subject for small-scale testing. I could write up a little test plan. That is, unless this is a closed conversation. - Damian Haase --=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 12:01, Bryan Clark wrote:

Applications outside of the core desktop should brand themselves as 
they are, however the core desktop applications should be branded as 
GNOME and that brand is simply not having one.

<snip>

I don't think this kind of branding is helping people, while we are
proud of the applications that make up the GNOME Desktop, each
application that's included in the desktop becomes part of GNOME as it
is integrated.  I view us kind of like the Borg, resistance is futile
and you will be assimilated.

Another thing to consider is scanability. If there are four Music Players installed (granted, maybe not a common case), and they all follow the format "_____ Music Player" with the GNOME default leaving off the "_____", then the menu would look something like this:

  Another Music Player
  Gary's Music Player
  Music Player
  Slick Music Player

The issue I see here is that by asking all GNOME app developers to follow the "____ Music Player" format, the only distiguishing characteristic in a list of like items is the "____", and the GNOME default, lacking that distinguishing characteristic, may get lost in the noise.

There may be other ways to allow an application to display its "primary" status than by altering the menu name. Perhaps some visual distinction, such as a highlight color, or even bold text. Maybe position in the list.

This is a good subject for small-scale testing. I could write up a little test plan. That is, unless this is a closed conversation.

- Damian Haase --=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr-- From mightyquinn@charter.net Sat Jul 3 07:18:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mxsf12.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf12.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.212]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CB03B08AB for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mxip10.cluster1.charter.net (mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.140]) by mxsf12.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i63BKM5J019744 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:20:22 -0400 Received: from 24.247.247.83.bay.mi.chartermi.net (HELO sayuki) (24.247.247.83) by mxip10.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2004 07:18:29 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.81R,146,1083556800"; d="scan'208"; a="79328024:sNHT12480580" From: Dave Ahlswede To: usability@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:18:25 +0000 Message-Id: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: mightyquinn@letterboxes.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:18:29 -0000 After a little "usabilitily study" I conducted on myself, consisting of renaming and moving about a dozen files between partitions, I discovered a couple things that irked me about nautilus. First, I think the move to trash option on the menu is too close to the rename option.. I accidentally moved several files to the trash.. while a reversible action, it did break my train of thought. Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be used to force a move in this case. I thought it might be better to run this by people here before I bugged the nautilus folks about it. From azz@us-lot.org Sat Jul 3 07:44:19 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx5.kent.ac.uk (mx5.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.21.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856F63B0C67 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from myrtle.ukc.ac.uk ([129.12.3.176] ident=exim) by mx5.kent.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BgiwH-0000p2-He for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:13 +0100 Received: from swallow.ukc.ac.uk ([129.12.4.234] helo=cartman.at.fivegeeks.net ident=ats1) by myrtle.ukc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BgiwH-00052z-8D for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:13 +0100 Received: from azz by cartman.at.fivegeeks.net with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BgiwG-0007tl-19 for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:12 +0100 To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> From: Adam Sampson Organization: Things I did not know at first I learned by doing twice. Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> (Dave Ahlswede's message of "Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:18:25 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) XEmacs/21.4 (Security Through Obscurity, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: Adam Sampson X-UKC-Mail-System: No virus detected X-UKC-SpamCheck: X-UKC-MailScanner-From: azz@us-lot.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:44:19 -0000 Dave Ahlswede writes: > Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying > instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move > is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move > here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be > used to force a move in this case. This used to be inconsistent with the documentation -- I reported it as bug 128227, and it got fixed by changing the docs. I'd be curious to hear why it's better for Nautilus to behave differently when dragging between filesystems; I would have assumed that consistent behaviour would have been more useful, particularly given that it's really not obvious when two folders are actually on different filesystems. What's wrong with having Nautilus always move when dragging with no modifiers held down, and always copy when dragging with Shift held down (or vica versa)? -- Adam Sampson From jcs116@york.ac.uk Sat Jul 3 07:48:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk (pythagoras.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.140]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148DD3B08EB for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [82.68.105.97] (helo=slate.badgerhaus) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Bgj0c-0007su-Ps for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:48:42 +0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: John Spray To: usability@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1088855322.26219.13.camel@slate> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:48:42 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.105.97] X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:48:47 -0000 On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 12:18, Dave Ahlswede wrote: > the only way to get it to move is > to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move here" > from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be used to > force a move in this case. In the name of completeness, I'll mention that you can also button-2 drag to get the menu when you drop. John From kodis@papa.kodis.org Sat Jul 3 08:45:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A91DD3B06F5 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from papa.kodis.org (pcp02267821pcs.longhl01.md.comcast.net[68.50.98.85]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2004070312454901300jc286e>; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:45:50 +0000 Received: from papa.kodis.org (papa.kodis.org [127.0.0.1]) by papa.kodis.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i63CjmgZ003403 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:48 -0400 Received: (from kodis@localhost) by papa.kodis.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i63Cjmo8003400 for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:48 -0400 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:48 -0400 From: John Kodis To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] desktop entry names, generic? Message-ID: <20040703124548.GA3339@papa.kodis.org> References: <20040630160138.F05743B0F28@menubar.gnome.org> <1088693671.10252.32.camel@trout> <1088695069.10252.39.camel@trout> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1088695069.10252.39.camel@trout> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:45:51 -0000 On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 11:17:50AM -0400, Damian Haase wrote: > Another thing to consider is scanability. If there are four Music > Players installed (granted, maybe not a common case), and they all > follow the format "_____ Music Player" with the GNOME default leaving > off the "_____", then the menu would look something like this: > > Another Music Player > Gary's Music Player > Music Player > Slick Music Player > > The issue I see here is that by asking all GNOME app developers to > follow the "____ Music Player" format, the only distiguishing > characteristic in a list of like items is the "____", and the GNOME > default, lacking that distinguishing characteristic, may get lost in > the noise. > > There may be other ways to allow an application to display its > "primary" status than by altering the menu name. Perhaps some visual > distinction, such as a highlight color, or even bold text. Maybe > position in the list. Putting "Music Player" first in the list would do it, although I'd prefer just supplying a distinguishing name for each. There was also a proposal at one time to solve this sort of problem by having the menu at the level above this one show "Music Player >". Clicking on this would start the default music player, but when the user clicked on/hovered over the little arrow on the right hand side, a submenu with Another, Slick, and Gary's Music Players would appear. That seemed like an elegant, intuitive, and flexible solution to me, but the idea never went anywhere for reasons that I no longer recall. -- John Kodis. From chris@gnome-de.org Sat Jul 3 16:01:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.bytecamp.net (mail.bytecamp.net [212.204.60.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 88EF03B06B4 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 70560 invoked by uid 88); 3 Jul 2004 20:01:09 -0000 Received: from pd9e9642b.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.123.111?) (chris%gnome-de.org@217.233.100.43) by mail.bytecamp.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2004 20:01:09 -0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: Christian Neumair To: mightyquinn@letterboxes.org In-Reply-To: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:01:37 +0200 Message-Id: <1088884897.18025.8.camel@widget> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 20:01:15 -0000 Am Samstag, den 03.07.2004, 11:18 +0000 schrieb Dave Ahlswede: > I think the move to trash option on the menu is too close to the > rename option.. I accidentally moved several files to the trash.. while > a reversible action, it did break my train of thought. Weird. There should be a separator between rename and move to trash. Maybe your nautilus version is broken or outdated. > Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying > instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move is > to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move here" > from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be used to > force a move in this case. The menu should pop up if you drag using the middle mouse button as well. But indeed you're right, shift should cause Nautilus to move the files, although it doesn't ATM. > I thought it might be better to run this by people here before I bugged > the nautilus folks about it. Feel free to bug 'em by filing a bug report :). Thanks for your efforts. regs, Chris From thorsten.seitz@web.de Sat Jul 3 18:35:26 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp06.web.de (smtp06.web.de [217.72.192.224]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6343B084A for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [217.236.148.202] (helo=pd9ec94ca.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) by smtp06.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (WEB.DE 4.101 #44) id 1Bgt6T-0007G5-00 for usability@gnome.org; Sun, 04 Jul 2004 00:35:25 +0200 From: Thorsten Seitz To: usability@gnome.org Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 00:35:08 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Sender: thorsten.seitz@web.de Subject: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: thorsten.seitz@web.de List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:35:26 -0000 Having upgraded to GNOME 2.6 I'm very happy with the spatial Nautilus and t= he=20 new Filechooser. Thanks to all involved! To round some corners I'd like to make some suggestions: 1. It would be nice to have the "Open Location" action not just available v= ia=20 Ctrl-L from a Nautilus window but from the Action menu in the panel, too. 2. The "Open Location" dialog should work like that of the Filechooser, i.e= =2E=20 it should offer completions in a drop down list, too. 3. Renaming the Home folder on the desktop should work on the Filechooser,= =20 too, i.e. the Home folder should appear with its new name in the bookmark=20 list and on the path button. (The new name should be used throughout GNOME,= =20 i.e. in the Application menu of the panel, too). 4. If (3) is not possible it should at least be possible to rename the Home= =20 folder with respect to the Filechooser, because in the German translation i= ts=20 name is "Pers=F6nlicher Ordner" which is rather long for the path button. 5. No drives should appear in the bookmark list of the Filechooser. Instead= =20 the Computer location should appear there to allow relatively quick access = to=20 all drives. The reason is that (a) not all drives in the list are mounted o= r=20 interesting (e.g. I have a CD-ROM, CD-Recorder, Floppy and two unmounted=20 drives (for backups); all these are used almost never when opening/saving=20 files but take up precious space in the bookmark list). 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in=20 Nautilus windows. What do you all think? =2DThorsten From mightyquinn@charter.net Sat Jul 3 19:27:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.217]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FC23B06FF for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 19:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mxip06.cluster1.charter.net (mxip06a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.136]) by mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i63NTXs7002892 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 19:29:33 -0400 Received: from 24.247.247.83.bay.mi.chartermi.net (HELO sayuki) (24.247.247.83) by mxip06.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2004 19:27:50 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.81R,146,1083556800"; d="scan'208"; a="80895315:sNHT13011890" Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: Dave Ahlswede To: Christian Neumair In-Reply-To: <1088884897.18025.8.camel@widget> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> <1088884897.18025.8.camel@widget> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 19:27:48 -0400 Message-Id: <1088897268.21099.12.camel@sayuki> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: mightyquinn@letterboxes.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 23:27:51 -0000 On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 22:01 +0200, Christian Neumair wrote: > Am Samstag, den 03.07.2004, 11:18 +0000 schrieb Dave Ahlswede: > > I think the move to trash option on the menu is too close to the > > rename option.. I accidentally moved several files to the trash.. while > > a reversible action, it did break my train of thought. > > Weird. There should be a separator between rename and move to trash. > Maybe your nautilus version is broken or outdated. Actually, the separator bar is there, but at least with the LighthouseBlue GTK engine, it's about 1/3 of the width of an entry line. It's close enough that I still hit it instead of rename a couple times-- I'm not sure why it happened with this combo, and not elsewhere in the menu, though it may have something to do with the absence of a stock icon for rename by default, and icons in menu options seem to psychologically be an easier target to click. And actually, as I look around the menu a little more, my thoughts were to move it just above properties, but the division just above properties varies in size, so it might be harder to develop muscle-memory for it. I think in retrospect that this may be user error on my part and not a usability error in Nautilus. From reinout@cs.vu.nl Mon Jul 5 08:52:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from sloep115.cs.vu.nl (sloep115.cs.vu.nl [130.37.24.75]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA573B07F0 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 08:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sloep115.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #91) id m1BhSx4-000NchC; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:52 +0200 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:52:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Thorsten Seitz Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions In-Reply-To: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Message-ID: References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:52:09 -0000 On Sun, 4 Jul 2004, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > 1. It would be nice to have the "Open Location" action not just > available via Ctrl-L from a Nautilus window but from the Action > menu in the panel, too. Agreed, but it would be even better if there were an entry field on the panel where you could enter any network- or filesystem location. GNOME would take care that the right handler for the location is chosen. > 2. The "Open Location" dialog should work like that of the > Filechooser, i.e. it should offer completions in a drop down list, > too. Perhaps this could be nicely combined with Nautilus' Connect to Server dialog. See also http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D139105 > 3. Renaming the Home folder on the desktop should work on the > Filechooser, too, i.e. the Home folder should appear with its new IMHO the desktop should *be* the home folder, but this discussion has been closed, you can set the gconf key but it's not going to be default in the forseeable future. > name is "Pers=F6nlicher Ordner" which is rather long for the path button. Now *that's* interesting. At GUADEC I talked to people who were convinced that we (Dutch l10n team) were the only ones that translated 'Home' on GNOME that way. > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. Disagree. The filechooser is a very different beast than Nautilus. There would be no immediate feedback if you bookmarked a folder that way, and the user wouldn't have an easy way to know that those folders will end up in the filechooser bookmarks. > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > Nautilus windows. I do agree that the Locations should be extendable but I'm not sure this is the right way to do it. Have you filed RFE bugs for your suggestions? regards, --=20 Reinout van Schouwen=09=09=09Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl=09=09=09mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 =09Against Software Patents in the EU - swpat.ffii.org From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Mon Jul 5 14:12:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 72E923B0D5B for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 5 Jul 2004 19:12:56 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 19:12:49 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: Thorsten Seitz Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions In-Reply-To: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Message-ID: References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:12:58 -0000 > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > Nautilus windows. I think that is a great idea. I'm getting really annoyed at having all sorts of entirely seperate bookmarks in different places and needing to repeatedly add them (and it is just as bad in KDE, so if you mix an match GTK and Qt applications it adds to the madness). I doubt any applications could directly share the same bookmarks file applications really should include subfolder(s) with imported bookmarks so that in Nautilus i would have Bookmarks FileChooser Bookmarks Gthumb Bookmarks and similarly those applications would have a subfolder for Nautilus bookmarks. granted I have no clue how this might work in practice and I can see Epiphany being an especially difficult case but having to add the same bookmarks more than once is quite annoying. > What do you all think? Good ideas. - Alan From seguso.forever@tin.it Mon Jul 5 14:38:42 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from vsmtp4.tin.it (unknown [212.216.176.150]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA4E3B06EA for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.33] (82.51.115.214) by vsmtp4.tin.it (7.0.027) id 40ACC5B100B288B2 for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:38:37 +0200 From: Maurizio Colucci To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:39:13 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> In-Reply-To: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:38:42 -0000 Hello, here's my two pence: On Saturday 03 July 2004 15:35, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. 100 % agree > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > Nautilus windows. Disagree. I believe there should be a GLOBAL button on the gnome-panel, which opens the bookmark list. It would spare one click in some situation, and has no drawback over your solution, as far as I can see. PS: At the risk of repeating myself: I believe also a "recent locations" button should be in the gnome-panel. It works very well in my app: http://logicaldesktop.sourceforge.net (try it! It's easy, it's a python script). Mau From thorsten.seitz@web.de Mon Jul 5 16:29:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp08.web.de (smtp08.web.de [217.72.192.226]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545523B0A30 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [217.236.144.188] (helo=pd9ec90bc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) by smtp08.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (WEB.DE 4.101 #44) id 1Bha5l-00033F-00 for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:29:34 +0200 From: Thorsten Seitz To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 22:29:32 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> In-Reply-To: <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200407052229.32471.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Sender: thorsten.seitz@web.de X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: thorsten.seitz@web.de List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 20:29:38 -0000 On Tuesday 06 July 2004 05:39, Maurizio Colucci wrote: > On Saturday 03 July 2004 15:35, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. > > 100 % agree > > > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > > Nautilus windows. > > Disagree. I believe there should be a GLOBAL button on the gnome-panel, > which opens the bookmark list. It would spare one click in some situation, > and has no drawback over your solution, as far as I can see. Great idea! This button should include the standard Locations list, though. > PS: At the risk of repeating myself: I believe also a "recent locations" > button should be in the gnome-panel. It works very well in my app: That would be very nice, too! -Thorsten From seguso.forever@tin.it Mon Jul 5 18:33:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from vsmtp3.tin.it (vsmtp3alice.tin.it [212.216.176.143]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D6B33B0EC5 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 18:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.33] (82.51.115.214) by vsmtp3.tin.it (7.0.027) id 40CF29D700576161 for usability@gnome.org; Tue, 6 Jul 2004 00:33:42 +0200 From: Maurizio Colucci To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 00:34:18 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> <200407052229.32471.thorsten.seitz@web.de> In-Reply-To: <200407052229.32471.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200407060034.18902.seguso.forever@tin.it> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:33:43 -0000 On Monday 05 July 2004 13:29, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > Disagree. I believe there should be a GLOBAL button on the gnome-panel, > > which opens the bookmark list. =A0It would spare one click in some > > situation, and has no drawback over your solution, as far as I can see. > > Great idea! This button should include the standard Locations list, thoug= h. Thanks :-) However, a menu entry in nautilus would still be needed for who uses nautil= us=20 without the gnome-panel. From msuarezalvarez@arnet.com.ar Sat Jul 10 22:47:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp3.arnet.com.ar (smtp3.arnet.com.ar [200.45.191.14]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E9863B076E for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13315 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 02:45:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.0.3?) (200.45.96.152) by smtp3.arnet.com.ar with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 02:45:13 -0000 From: Mariano =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Su=E1rez-Alvarez?= To: GNOME Usability List Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh" Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:46:55 -0300 Message-Id: <1089514015.2762.40.camel@grothendieck.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9 Subject: [Usability] HIG dialogs X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 02:47:46 -0000 --=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Since the search function of our mailing lists is broken, and google does not give me anything useful, I'll take the risk of bringing this up:=20 Can some one point me to instructions on how to get the exterior borders of the buttons in the action area of a GtkDialog to be aligned with the borders of the rest of the dialog in a way that does not break when one changes the theme?=20 Glade allows you to set the corresponding style properties on the horizontal button box in a dialog, but these is not theme-change resistant. -- m --=20 Mariano Su=C3=A1rez-Alvarez http://www.gnome.org/~mariano --=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBA8KofEwEqMdgw70URAtM0AJ9962f8Zf4jUVq+THDGYGmUyA1i3gCeMehr IHxasnyyr2peTZepNT26fVs= =evUQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh-- From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Tue Jul 13 21:00:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ni-mail2.dna.utvinternet.net (ni-mail2.dna.utvinternet.net [194.46.8.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924B33B0A8A; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sputnik.localdomain (unverified [195.218.110.125]) by ni-mail2.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 3.1.302.0) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:00:53 +0100 Received: by sputnik.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 500) id B2F9B132FF3; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:02:15 +0100 (IST) From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" To: usability@gnome.org, gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Udaltsoft Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:02:15 +0100 Message-Id: <1089766935.17599.50.camel@sputnik> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 Cc: Subject: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:00:54 -0000 Hi all Yesterday I merged the branch which adds one extra tab to the keyboard preferences. The tab is "Layout preview". I realize that current solution is far from perfect usability-wise - it is there just to display the existence of such functionality. The rendering is somewhat ugly - but the main issue is that I do not have clear vision WHERE and HOW to display the preview. Should it be just separate window existing aside with the preferences window? Should it be modal popup dialog? Any comments/ideas are very welcome. The screenshots can be found here: http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv.png http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv2.png Regards, Sergey From bclark@redhat.com Tue Jul 13 23:31:47 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98983B0A90 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6E3Vle1027822 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:47 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6E3Vl019187 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:47 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.118] (vpn64-23.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.23]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6E3VEhx025365 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List In-Reply-To: <1089766935.17599.50.camel@sputnik> References: <1089766935.17599.50.camel@sputnik> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:52 -0400 Message-Id: <1089775912.3549.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 (1.5.9.1-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 03:31:48 -0000 Hi Sergey ~ On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 02:02 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > Yesterday I merged the branch which adds one extra tab to the keyboard > preferences. The tab is "Layout preview". I realize that current > solution is far from perfect usability-wise - it is there just to > display the existence of such functionality. The rendering is somewhat > ugly - but the main issue is that I do not have clear vision WHERE and > HOW to display the preview. Should it be just separate window existing > aside with the preferences window? Should it be modal popup dialog? Any > comments/ideas are very welcome. A new tab is probably not the way to go for this. Perhaps we can first construct a storyboard for how this system is used and who it is used by. Then we can try to model the best interaction after that. > The screenshots can be found here: > > http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv.png > http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv2.png This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) Cheers, ~ Bryan From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 12:13:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21943B120C; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B756380F32; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:13:16 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:13:16 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:13:18 -0000 > I think the picture of the keyboard should be where it is. The > rendering needs a facelift, but I think it's in the right position. > Endless popups are just annoying. Well, for me extra window is annoying, true. But usability-wise showing and updating the popup on the tab 5 while the controls are on the tabs 2 and 3 - sounds really ugly (for example, it is not obvious at all that options on the tab 3 affect the layout as well as option on the tab 2). It is some kind of "driving blind". In the ideal world, person should be able look at the resulting layout at the same time as he/she changes the configuration. Sergey From sstephenson@gmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:26:01 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D5863B09B0 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:26:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d78so337409rnf for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.9.24 with SMTP id 24mr311481rni; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:25:41 -0400 From: Sam Stephenson To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" Subject: Re: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center In-Reply-To: <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:26:01 -0000 On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:13:16 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > > I think the picture of the keyboard should be where it is. The > > rendering needs a facelift, but I think it's in the right position. > > Endless popups are just annoying. > > Well, for me extra window is annoying, true. But usability-wise showing > and updating the popup on the tab 5 while the controls are on the tabs 2 > and 3 - sounds really ugly (for example, it is not obvious at all that > options on the tab 3 affect the layout as well as option on the tab 2). > It is some kind of "driving blind". In the ideal world, person should > be able look at the resulting layout at the same time as he/she changes > the configuration. What about a GtkExpander that contains the preview image positioned vertically in between the notebook and the bottom buttons? The dialog's height could grow and shrink as necessary. > Sergey Sam From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 12:42:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EC43B0C1B; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E2C80F32; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:35 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:42:37 -0000 > A new tab is probably not the way to go for this. Perhaps we can first > construct a storyboard for how this system is used and who it is used > by. Then we can try to model the best interaction after that. Well, the story is very simple (well, at least as I see it). First, this feature (like all the layouts configuration stuff) is only interesting for people using non-US layouts. Once such a user wants to use his national layout - in most cases, it has to choose which variant he/she wants to use - because most of layouts contain more than one variant. As one Ukrainian person said (translation from Russian): "For now, when I want to choose a suitable keyboard variant, I have to try all available variants and with each variant, press EVERY key TWICE (with and without Shift pressed)". FYI, currently there are 3 Russian variants in xorg distribution - and IIRC it is not the largest number for one country/language. So this preview screen allows to estimate visually whether the choosen layout and variant match the idea of the user of what they should be. Ideally, user should be able to see the layout selection widgets (tabs 2 and 3) and the preview - at the same time, simultaniously. So the "separate window" solution looks good from this POV - but the screen cluttering is my concern here. BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? > This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough > on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) Exactly. It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the geometry is generally described in X server geometry. Regards, Sergey From Glynn.Foster@Sun.COM Wed Jul 14 12:52:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32ECC3B0C17 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-eris-2 ([129.156.85.26]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6EGqaJ8026958 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.eris-mail1.uk.sun.com by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0I0U00J01PGKLA@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Glynn.Foster@Sun.COM) for usability@gnome.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:52:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from [10.0.1.4] (vpn-129-150-153-2.Aus.Sun.COM [129.150.153.2]) by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I0U007PSPJKWE@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:52:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 03:38:58 +1200 From: Glynn Foster Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center In-reply-to: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" Message-id: <1089560339.2638.27.camel@slipstream> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:52:38 -0000 Hey, > > This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough > > on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) > Exactly. It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other > than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the > geometry is generally described in X server geometry. So it almost feels that the keyboard layout should be part of the selection somehow ie. selecting a keyboard layout automatically updates the always visible keyboard preview, rather than manually having to click on a preview button to see the results of your selection. I guess I'm not convinced that an end user has any idea what the various keyboard layout descriptions mean and that pictures speak louder than words - ok, I'm slightly biased and narrow minded with a US layout. As to how you can present that in a user interface is another question. Glynn From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 13:04:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848783B0C4A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2DFF80F3F; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5670F.6050101@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Stephenson Subject: Re: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:04:29 -0000 > What about a GtkExpander that contains the preview image positioned > vertically in between the notebook and the bottom buttons? The > dialog's height could grow and shrink as necessary. Actually, this idea looks ok for me. The only potential is that if we put it OUTSIDE notebook - it will also be accessible from the tabs 1 and 4 which have nothing to do with layout. Sergey From liam@holoweb.net Wed Jul 14 13:12:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from dirk.holoweb.net (dirk2.holoweb.net [216.94.134.20]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F553B124A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dirk.holoweb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A88996A42A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center From: "Liam R. E. Quin" To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" In-Reply-To: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: W3C Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:08:42 -0400 Message-Id: <1089824922.5593.12.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90-3mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:12:38 -0000 On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 17:42 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several > layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going > to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 > and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user > choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. > It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other > than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the > geometry is generally described in X server geometry. You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, as you could "program" them independently of the application) Liam From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 15:16:36 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ni-mail3.dna.utvinternet.net (unknown [194.46.8.37]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2A23B12A1; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sputnik.localdomain (unverified [195.218.110.117]) by ni-mail3.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 3.1.302.0) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:16:36 +0100 Received: by sputnik.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 500) id 427A5132FF4; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:17:59 +0100 (IST) Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" To: Glynn Foster In-Reply-To: <1089560339.2638.27.camel@slipstream> References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> <1089560339.2638.27.camel@slipstream> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Udaltsoft Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:17:58 +0100 Message-Id: <1089832678.17599.54.camel@sputnik> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 19:16:36 -0000 > So it almost feels that the keyboard layout should be part of the > selection somehow ie. selecting a keyboard layout automatically updates Yeah, and it does now - it automatically updates. > the always visible keyboard preview, rather than manually having to > click on a preview button to see the results of your selection. I guess Sure. Even with the current design there is no special button - the update is automatic. But it is just in another tab:( > I'm not convinced that an end user has any idea what the various > keyboard layout descriptions mean and that pictures speak louder than > words - ok, I'm slightly biased and narrow minded with a US layout. Well, unfortunately some details of the layout are really better represented when they are shown. For Russian, it is punctuation characters which matters - their placement is very different in different variants so it is better to see the layout in order to find whether it is "yours" or not. Just "default" or "winkeys" gives little information on this subject. > As to how you can present that in a user interface is another question. Of course. Sergey From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Thu Jul 15 05:48:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-mx-03.ti.local (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 493A23B09C4; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.104]) by smtp-mx-03.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:48:31 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:48:26 -0300 Received: from mail-fe-01 ([192.168.220.33]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:30:03 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-05.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.168]) by mail-fe-01 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:04:38 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191168.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 17:02:29 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B733B0C36; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848783B0C4A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2DFF80F3F; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5670F.6050101@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Stephenson References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2004 17:04:38.0311 (UTC) FILETIME=[A56D0B70:01C469C4] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:48:52 -0000 > What about a GtkExpander that contains the preview image positioned > vertically in between the notebook and the bottom buttons? The > dialog's height could grow and shrink as necessary. Actually, this idea looks ok for me. The only potential is that if we put it OUTSIDE notebook - it will also be accessible from the tabs 1 and 4 which have nothing to do with layout. Sergey _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Thu Jul 15 06:40:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-mx-05.ti.local (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3227B3B068F; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.104]) by smtp-mx-05.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:39:52 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:39:51 -0300 Received: from mail-fe-02 ([192.168.220.43]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:18:46 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-03.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.166]) by mail-fe-02 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:42:52 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191166.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 16:40:44 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C887E3B1240; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:42:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EC43B0C1B; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E2C80F32; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:35 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: usability@gnome.org References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2004 16:42:52.0710 (UTC) FILETIME=[9B3A2460:01C469C1] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:40:11 -0000 > A new tab is probably not the way to go for this. Perhaps we can first > construct a storyboard for how this system is used and who it is used > by. Then we can try to model the best interaction after that. Well, the story is very simple (well, at least as I see it). First, this feature (like all the layouts configuration stuff) is only interesting for people using non-US layouts. Once such a user wants to use his national layout - in most cases, it has to choose which variant he/she wants to use - because most of layouts contain more than one variant. As one Ukrainian person said (translation from Russian): "For now, when I want to choose a suitable keyboard variant, I have to try all available variants and with each variant, press EVERY key TWICE (with and without Shift pressed)". FYI, currently there are 3 Russian variants in xorg distribution - and IIRC it is not the largest number for one country/language. So this preview screen allows to estimate visually whether the choosen layout and variant match the idea of the user of what they should be. Ideally, user should be able to see the layout selection widgets (tabs 2 and 3) and the preview - at the same time, simultaniously. So the "separate window" solution looks good from this POV - but the screen cluttering is my concern here. BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? > This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough > on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) Exactly. It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the geometry is generally described in X server geometry. Regards, Sergey _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From liam@holoweb.net Thu Jul 15 07:27:02 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail-fe-02 (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FE13B0678; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.104]) by mail-fe-02 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:26:43 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:25:26 -0300 Received: from smtp-mx-05.ti.local ([192.168.220.24]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:47:36 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-01.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.164]) by smtp-mx-05.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:13:29 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191164.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 17:11:21 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D6923B126A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:12:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from dirk.holoweb.net (dirk2.holoweb.net [216.94.134.20]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F553B124A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dirk.holoweb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A88996A42A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:13:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Liam R. E. Quin" To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" In-Reply-To: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: W3C Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:08:42 -0400 Message-Id: <1089824922.5593.12.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90-3mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2004 17:13:29.0588 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2177B40:01C469C5] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:27:03 -0000 On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 17:42 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several > layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going > to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 > and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user > choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. > It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other > than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the > geometry is generally described in X server geometry. You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, as you could "program" them independently of the application) Liam _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Thu Jul 15 12:47:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5453B0B81; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6B580F68; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F6B535.4090303@pochta.ru> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "" Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in, gnome-control-center References: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.2.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:47:55 -0000 > A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is > the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. Well, it is not exactly up to gnome - all this data comes from X server. Sure, we can submit patches to xorg and xfree - but we cannot count on them in foreseeble future. Also, lengthy textual description sometimes is more confusing than just a glance onto the image. > You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Cool! I will work on it one gtkgl makes its way into the gnome libs:) > Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. AFAIK xkeycaps does not use xkb geometry, does it? The "beauty" of our image is mostly limited by that info. > Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours > and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can > work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in > the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and > perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. True, "test mode" is another solution to a problem. But it is actually not far from the solution of my friend - just open the text editor and press evey key twice (to say the truth, I see no difference other than ability to test safely special keys by grabbing the entire keyboard input). IMHO this solution is less usable. > (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a > toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input > to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. > It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, > as you could "program" them independently of the application) By any chance, don't you remember the name of the app? Just to have a look, you know. So, summing things up, the only viable solution so far is to use GtkExtender, putting it under the notebook. Are there other viable solutions? Sergey From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 15 18:10:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABAAE3B13E8; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6FMAYe1002958; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:34 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6FMAYa11316; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:34 -0400 Received: from [172.16.64.218] (dhcp64-218.boston.redhat.com [172.16.64.218]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6FMA0k9023978; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:00 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:38 -0400 Message-Id: <1089929438.3244.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 (1.5.9.1-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of gpdf on Friday, July 16th at 17:00 UTC X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:10:34 -0000 Just like the subject says. Sorry for the somewhat late notice, but Martin and I finally agreed on a time ;-) What's the review going to be? Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look at where gpdf is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with gpdf so far. Where will it be? We'll be on irc.gimp.net #ui-review at 17:00 UTC (1pm Boston time) How long will it take? The review shouldn't take too long, everyone is welcome to join. Where can I get more information on ui-reviews? http://usability.gnome.org/ui-review/ Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From joturner@vt.edu Sun Jul 18 22:52:10 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from lennier.cc.vt.edu (lennier.cc.vt.edu [198.82.162.213]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85EE63B0E84 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from steiner.cc.vt.edu (IDENT:mirapoint@evil-steiner [10.1.1.14]) by lennier.cc.vt.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6J2faLi243486 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.2.1.124] (199-3-136-10.rs-brn-apthts.blacksburg.ntc-com.net [199.3.136.10]) by steiner.cc.vt.edu (MOS 3.4.8-GR) with ESMTP id BEG06083 (AUTH joturner); Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Jonathan Turner To: Gnome Usability List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:39:58 -0500 Message-Id: <1090208398.25373.8.camel@wheatbeard.homenetwork> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] GNOME 2.6 Usability Review with User Study X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 02:52:10 -0000 For those of you who are interested. I've posted a GNOME 2.6 usability review with fairly detailed user testing. You can read it here: http://www.userinstinct.com/viewpost.php?postid=gnome26review Jonathan From bclark@redhat.com Mon Jul 19 01:26:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A9C3B08A0; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6J5QJe1002112; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:19 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6J5QJa14657; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:19 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.118] (vpn64-22.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.22]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6J5PiMW007155; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:25:44 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1090214781.4489.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of gpdf Summary X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 05:26:20 -0000 The weekend came fast and has me sending this a little late, but it's here none the less. A short summary of the ui-review of gpdf for those who weren't there and those who were. Thanks to everyone involved, we had a really successful review session. Areas of change: General Page fit as a settings that is kept in GConf Outline Page View Layout and thumbnailing Navigation of pages Fullscreen Mode Navigation of fullscreen pages Exit button Zoom controls Viewing PDFs generated by OO.o and some others Martin has probably already made blazing progress on this - thanks to Owen here as well. For a detailed outline head over to: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147869 Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From Vidar@CoreTrek.com Mon Jul 19 07:43:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from voyager.coretrek.no (voyager.coretrek.no [212.33.142.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2549B3B0F44 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by voyager.coretrek.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9349A892D; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:43:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.0.0.251] (wormhole.coretrek.no [212.33.142.10]) by voyager.coretrek.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1529CA892C; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:43:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40FBB3BD.9020903@CoreTrek.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:42:53 +0200 From: Vidar Braut Haarr Organization: CoreTrek A/S User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.1 (X11/20040715) X-Accept-Language: nn, no, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Sampson Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> In-Reply-To: X-Mor-di: yes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 (CoreTrek patch 1) Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:43:43 -0000 >>Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying >>instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move >>is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move >>here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be >>used to force a move in this case. I vote for "Move" as the default action, as that is the most natural thing to do with a real, physical, file. You don't copy it by dragging it from one "folder" to another - you move it. > I'd be curious to hear why it's better for Nautilus to behave > differently when dragging between filesystems; I would have assumed > that consistent behaviour would have been more useful, particularly > given that it's really not obvious when two folders are actually on > different filesystems. What's wrong with having Nautilus always move > when dragging with no modifiers held down, and always copy when > dragging with Shift held down (or vica versa)? I completely agree. As bandwith limits approach levels where local vs. remote/LAN storage has little effect on speed, I think we'll see more and more people getting small computers around their house, and a central storage. Computers for everything. Instead of the way it is now, where people buy home hifi-sets that can broadcast the signal to another reciever in your kitchen, and instead of having TVs and radios all over, people will just have 1 computer in each room with a variably large LCD display. Now I'm blabbering again :) In any case, the above scenario - coupled with "internet2" - tells me that the "remote" sense has already been, and will be further in the future, abstracted away from the user. So why not in Nautilus ? Just my 2 NOK. And now for my coffee. -- Vidar Braut Haarr "Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN." From mnews22@wp.pl Mon Jul 19 08:34:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp.wp.pl (smtp.wp.pl [212.77.101.160]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B853B0F4F for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (wp-smtpd smtp.wp.pl 8587 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 14:34:31 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO megumi) (mnews22@[195.116.35.55]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp.wp.pl (WP-SMTPD) with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP for ; 19 Jul 2004 14:34:31 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: Maciej Katafiasz To: Vidar Braut Haarr In-Reply-To: <40FBB3BD.9020903@CoreTrek.com> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> <40FBB3BD.9020903@CoreTrek.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Message-Id: <1090240646.28006.1143.camel@megumi> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:37:27 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-WP-AV: skaner antywirusowy poczty Wirtualnej Polski S. A. X-WP-AS1: NOSPAM Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-WP-AS3: NOSPAM X-WP-SPAM: NO Cc: usability@gnome.org, Adam Sampson X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:34:38 -0000 W liście z pon, 19-07-2004, godz. 13:42, Vidar Braut Haarr pisze: > >>Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying > >>instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move > >>is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move > >>here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be > >>used to force a move in this case. > > I vote for "Move" as the default action, as that is the most natural > thing to do with a real, physical, file. You don't copy it by dragging > it from one "folder" to another - you move it. Well, I can see a reason for having default action dependant on whether it's the same or different partition. That's because reverting move in "same" case is cheap, while in "different" it's not (you have to copy whole file back again). But I agree, Shift should definitely work as modifier, it's counter-HIGish for it not to (and annoying, too :) Cheers, Maciej -- "Tautologizm to coś tautologicznego" Maciej Katafiasz http://mathrick.blog.pl From aes@gnome.org Tue Jul 20 14:50:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk (pythagoras.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.140]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD903B0ED2 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.23.23.154] (helo=[192.168.0.6]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Bmzh0-0000Mo-3Z for usability@gnome.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:50:22 +0000 From: Andrew Sobala To: usability@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090349436.4734.128.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:50:36 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [212.23.23.154] Subject: [Usability] Is Suzanna Smith still involved with GNOME? X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:50:35 -0000 Hi, I'm trying to find out * If suzanna.smith@sun.com is still involved in gnome usability (her mail bounces), and * If so, what's a working e-mail address for her? Thanks, Andrew From Nancy.Frishberg@Sun.COM Tue Jul 20 15:02:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4486F3B0A5E; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.17.57]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6KJ29J6012708; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sun.COM (yemanja.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.83.63]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.13.0+Sun/8.13.0) with ESMTP id i6KJ4EgI967287; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <40FD6C30.2050104@Sun.COM> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:02:08 -0700 From: Nancy Frishberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20040414 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sobala Subject: Re: [Usability] Is Suzanna Smith still involved with GNOME? References: <1090349436.4734.128.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1090349436.4734.128.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Nancy.Frishberg@Sun.COM List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:02:12 -0000 She has left Sun, and I believe open source usability, for a position as a full-time visual designer with another organization. -- Nancy Andrew Sobala wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to find out > > * If suzanna.smith@sun.com is still involved in gnome usability (her > mail bounces), and > * If so, what's a working e-mail address for her? > > Thanks, > > Andrew -- Nancy Frishberg User Centered Software Design Sun Microsystems +1.650.786.0409 From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 22 00:23:04 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF803B0964; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4N4e1024511; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:04 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6M4N4a30883; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:04 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (vpn64-1.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.1]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4MRQn025451; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:22:27 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:09 -0400 Message-Id: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of ggv on Friday, July 16th at 19:00 UTC X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:23:05 -0000 Just like the subject says. Sorry for the somewhat late notice, this one is totally my fault. Jaka has been back from his sailing trip for a while now. What's the review going to be? Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look at where ggv is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with ggv so far. Where will it be? We'll be on irc.gimp.net #ui-review at 19:00 UTC (2pm Boston time) How long will it take? The review shouldn't take too long, everyone is welcome to join. Where can I get more information on ui-reviews? http://usability.gnome.org/ui-review/ Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From jdub@waugh.id.au Thu Jul 22 00:32:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.syd.swiftdsl.com.au (mail.syd.swiftdsl.com.au [202.154.83.58]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DDFE83B086E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31639 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2004 04:32:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO home.waugh.id.au) (218.214.67.227) by mail.syd.swiftdsl.com.au with SMTP; 22 Jul 2004 04:32:42 -0000 Received: from willow.home.waugh.id.au (willow.home [192.168.10.9]) by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D51E8D15; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:39 +1000 (EST) Received: by willow.home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8988669C8C; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:21 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:20 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Subject: Re: [Usability] UI-Review of ggv on Friday, July 16th at 19:00 UTC Message-ID: <20040722043220.GG6224@willow.home.waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel References: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.6 ppc Reply-By: Sun Jul 25 14:30:52 EST 2004 X-Uptime: 14:30:52 up 22 days, 11:24, 6 users, load average: 1.38, 1.50, 1.25 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i Cc: X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:32:44 -0000 > What's the review going to be? > > Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look > at where ggv is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with > ggv so far. Can we get the merging of ggv, gpdf and eog (ala Apple's "Preview", which is used for print previews, document/image viewing, etc) back on the agenda, perhaps for the next release? :-) There was some discussion about having a united frontend last year, would be great to find out where this is at. Thanks, - Jeff -- OSCON 2004: Portland OR, USA http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ "Socks for the foot menu!" - Liam Quin From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 22 00:35:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A193B079E; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4ZGe1026596; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:16 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6M4ZGa00384; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:16 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (vpn64-1.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.1]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4YdXM032394; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:34:39 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:22 -0400 Message-Id: <1090470922.3676.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of control-center on Friday, July 24th at 1500 UTC X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:35:17 -0000 Just like the subject says. What's the review going to be on? Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look at where the control-center is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with control-center so far. Where will it be? We'll be on irc.gimp.net #ui-review at 1500 UTC (11am Boston time) How long will it take? The review shouldn't take too long (1 hour - 2 hours max), everyone is welcome to join. Where can you get more information on ui-reviews? http://usability.gnome.org/ui-review/ Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 22 00:42:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CF33B0B1E; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4gOe1027887; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:24 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6M4gOa01187; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:24 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (vpn64-1.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.1]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4flHl003794; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:41:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Usability] UI-Review of ggv on Friday, July 16th at 19:00 UTC From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel In-Reply-To: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:29 -0400 Message-Id: <1090471349.5573.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:42:25 -0000 On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 00:23 -0400, Bryan Clark wrote: > Just like the subject says. Well actually it's on July 22nd (today). Sorry, I'm drunk... ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From daniele.levorato@infocamere.it Thu Jul 22 02:52:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from lxme02.infocamere.it (lxme02.infocamere.it [80.82.0.240]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6768B3B079E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 02:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxm02.icnet (lxm02.icnet [1.5.0.11]) by lxme02.infocamere.it (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6M6qNY7013525 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:23 +0200 Received: from lxm02.icnet (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6M6qIbJ016363 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:18 +0200 Received: from [1.6.64.213] (weipda064-213.icnet [1.6.64.213]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6M6qIL1016357 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:18 +0200 From: Daniele Levorato To: Gnome Usability List Content-Type: text/plain Organization: InfoCamere S.C.p.A Message-Id: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6-1mdk Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:23 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] File menu applet X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: daniele.levorato@infocamere.it List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:52:25 -0000 Hi All, Some time ago (well I think during gnome 1.4 release) there was a very helpfull applet... called "File Menu" applet or something similar. This applet allowed users to "quick browse" the filesystem like a menu where files are items and sub-directory are sub-menus. When you use Gnome as your "personal productivity instrument" at work, like me, with many-many-many windows opened and you have to quickly use a file or take a look at a directory content, that applet would be very usefull! Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a gnome-terminal and use that TAB-auto-completion feature and the "ls" command. This issue is obviously related to the usability, the way Gnome allows user to quikly interact with filesystems. ... However that applet is still available from the internet... Does someone succeded in installing that applet? ... I tried to compile it by myself (after downloading from the internet) but it seems too old to work with gnome2. Is there something similar or planned for the Gnome2 platform? In my opinion that would be very usefull... the "Open recent" sometimes comes in help but it's a different thing... just think that in KDE such a feature is present and I even used it many times with gnome 1.4. What do you think? Any suggestion? From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Thu Jul 22 08:31:44 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 53F123B072E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanczos.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 22 Jul 2004 13:31:43 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:31:41 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: Daniele Levorato Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:31:44 -0000 > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and you can turn on the tree view. There is a gconf key to turn off spatial Nautilus, I dont know it offhand (and I forget if there is preference for it in the GUI but I dont think there is). I'll have to leave your actual question for someone else to answer. - Alan H. From daniele.levorato@infocamere.it Thu Jul 22 09:06:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from lxme02.infocamere.it (lxme02.infocamere.it [80.82.0.240]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07F53B0C5B for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxm02.icnet (lxm02.icnet [1.5.0.11]) by lxme02.infocamere.it (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6MD61Yc004730; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:06:01 +0200 Received: from lxm02.icnet (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6MD5ubJ017319; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:05:56 +0200 Received: from [1.6.64.213] (weipda064-213.icnet [1.6.64.213]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6MD5uL1017314; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:05:56 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Daniele Levorato To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: InfoCamere S.C.p.A Message-Id: <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6-1mdk Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:06:02 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: daniele.levorato@infocamere.it List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:06:07 -0000 Thanks, however I know there's even a way even to start Nautilus in the old-style using a command line parameter. The problem is not new nautilus vs. old nautilus (I'm really using gnome 2.4 so I can't use spatial nautilus at all) but to find a more usable way (than the term-commands and than nautilus) to quickly browse filesystem... and this "way" should be accessible from menu or panel (the only desktop elements that can be always on top and directly accessible without iconifying all the other windows). I really can't find anything more usefull than a "file menu" applet from the gnome-panel or gnome-menu (like KDE does). On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 14:31, Alan Horkan wrote: > > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a > > You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if > you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and > you can turn on the tree view. > > There is a gconf key to turn off spatial Nautilus, I dont know it offhand > (and I forget if there is preference for it in the GUI but I dont think > there is). > > I'll have to leave your actual question for someone else to answer. > > - Alan H. From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Thu Jul 22 11:20:32 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 757FE3B07E3 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanczos.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 22 Jul 2004 16:20:27 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:20:27 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: "Adam D. Lopresto" Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:20:32 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (CDT) > From: Adam D. Lopresto > To: Alan Horkan > Cc: Daniele Levorato , > Gnome Usability List > Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet > > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Alan Horkan wrote: > > > > > > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > > > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > > > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > > > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a > > > > You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if > > you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and > > you can turn on the tree view. > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to behave. - Alan From mnews22@wp.pl Thu Jul 22 11:26:16 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp.wp.pl (smtp.wp.pl [212.77.101.160]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B663B07EE for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (wp-smtpd smtp.wp.pl 29906 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2004 17:26:14 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO megumi) (mnews22@[195.116.35.55]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp.wp.pl (WP-SMTPD) with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP for ; 22 Jul 2004 17:26:14 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Maciej Katafiasz To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Message-Id: <1090510143.2810.1.camel@megumi> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:29:03 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-WP-AV: skaner antywirusowy poczty Wirtualnej Polski S. A. X-WP-AS1: NOSPAM Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-WP-AS3: NOSPAM X-WP-SPAM: NO Cc: Gnome Usability List , "Adam D. Lopresto" X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:26:16 -0000 W liście z czw, 22-07-2004, godz. 17:20, Alan Horkan pisze: > > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. > > You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh > Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree > View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as > I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) > > I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a > tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to > behave. AFAIK, it's already somewhere on TODO list. It's really cool feature, and contributes to great classic finder usability. Cheers, Maciej -- "Tautologizm to coś tautologicznego" Maciej Katafiasz http://mathrick.blog.pl From uno@webworks.se Thu Jul 22 12:04:45 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ths.se (unknown [213.80.77.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5131B3B0B8D for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (as4-1-5.sp.m.bonet.se [194.236.103.230]) by ths.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B08E7407A; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:04:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:04:29 +0200 From: Uno Engborg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040619 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: daniele.levorato@infocamere.it Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> In-Reply-To: <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms070806050802040107000003" Cc: Gnome Usability List , Alan Horkan X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:04:45 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070806050802040107000003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniele Levorato wrote: >Thanks, >however I know there's even a way even to start Nautilus in the >old-style using a command line parameter. The problem is not new >nautilus vs. old nautilus (I'm really using gnome 2.4 so I can't use >spatial nautilus at all) but to find a more usable way (than the >term-commands and than nautilus) to quickly browse filesystem... and >this "way" should be accessible from menu or panel (the only desktop >elements that can be always on top and directly accessible without >iconifying all the other windows). >I really can't find anything more usefull than a "file menu" applet from >the gnome-panel or gnome-menu (like KDE does). > I agree, we need a simple way to navigate the file system. The spatial mode fit the needs of most everyday users that have their own files in their home directories. For system administraiotn annd other situations where you need deep folder structures it we need some way of quickly navigate to a different part of the file system. My suggestion is that we expand the functionality of the popup menu in the bottom left corner of spatial nautilus windows. Today the menu items consists of the directory hierarchy to /. Why not expand this so that it even contained the sibling direcories on in a submenu at each level. E.g: / /home>|/usr |/etc |/var |/opt But for this to work we would probably need a new type of popup menu. One that doesn't pop up the popup until the mouse is moved out on the arrow. That way the base element of the menu would be selectable on its own. 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Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [61.121.47.61] (ntnara027061.nara.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp [61.121.47.61])by mail503.nifty.com with ESMTP id i6MGdGer002571; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:39:16 +0900 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Ryan McDougall To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:45:58 +0900 Message-Id: <1090514758.2666.14.camel@SEMPUKI> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 (1.5.9.1-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome Usability List , "Adam D. Lopresto" X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:39:21 -0000 On Thu, 2004-22-07 at 16:20 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > > > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. > > You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh > Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree > View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as > I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) > > I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a > tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to > behave. > > - Alan IIRC Alex has stated that it was always his intention of providing more than two navigation modes, and mac style tree was on his list. Can't recall the email though, somewhere in the archives ... Cheers, Ryan From jamiemcc@blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jul 22 12:45:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17BF33B0D53 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [82.32.13.166] ([82.32.13.166]) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:45:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Jamie McCracken To: Ryan McDougall In-Reply-To: <1090514758.2666.14.camel@SEMPUKI> References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090514758.2666.14.camel@SEMPUKI> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090514721.2892.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:45:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jul 2004 16:45:28.0437 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B5A3250:01C4700B] Cc: Gnome Usability List , Alan Horkan , "Adam D. Lopresto" X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:45:11 -0000 On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 17:45, Ryan McDougall wrote: > On Thu, 2004-22-07 at 16:20 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > > > > > > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > > > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > > > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > > > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > > > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. > > > > You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh > > Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree > > View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as > > I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) > > > > I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a > > tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to > > behave. > > > > - Alan > > IIRC Alex has stated that it was always his intention of providing more > than two navigation modes, and mac style tree was on his list. > > Can't recall the email though, somewhere in the archives ... Yup I read somewhere that one of the developers was creating a new view that combines a tree view with a list view (IE exactly like Konquerors tree view). Of course the view can be in a spatial window and therefore you would get the same effect. I personally dont like the tree/list view combo but thats just my opinion - if it makes life easier for spatial users then what the heck! jamie. > > Cheers, > Ryan > > _______________________________________________ > Usability mailing list > Usability@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability > > From twanger@bluetwanger.de Fri Jul 23 05:15:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from web11.manitu.net (web11.manitu.net [217.11.48.111]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671673B0BBE; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [62.165.4.166] (dicaprio.akademie1.de [62.165.4.166]) (authenticated) by web11.manitu.net (8.10.2-SOL3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i6N9FKf02009; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:15:20 +0200 From: Markus Bertheau To: nautilus-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090574120.3241.15.camel@dicaprio.akademie1.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:15:20 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] nautilus behaviour when selected file is changed X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:15:28 -0000 Hi, I just observed the following behaviour in nautilus 2.4.0. I don't have a newer version to test with at work. I wonder if the behaviour I observed was done on purpose. If it was not done on purpose, do we want the current behaviour to happen or something else? (That's why I'm sending a copy to usability@). 0. have fam/gamin working 1. select a file 2. touch it from a shell or otherwise change it 3. observe how the file is unselected and the next file in the directory gets a frame around its name, but is not selected. Thanks -- Markus Bertheau From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Fri Jul 23 07:16:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-mx-03.ti.local (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F232F3B0FBF; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.105]) by smtp-mx-03.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:16:22 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:57:55 -0300 Received: from smtp-mx-01.ti.local ([192.168.220.20]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:32:26 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-05.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.168]) by smtp-mx-01.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:49:53 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191168.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 16:47:41 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ACF33B095B; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:49:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5453B0B81; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6B580F68; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F6B535.4090303@pochta.ru> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "" References: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.2.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in, gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2004 16:49:53.0295 (UTC) FILETIME=[C05411F0:01C46A8B] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:16:43 -0000 > A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is > the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. Well, it is not exactly up to gnome - all this data comes from X server. Sure, we can submit patches to xorg and xfree - but we cannot count on them in foreseeble future. Also, lengthy textual description sometimes is more confusing than just a glance onto the image. > You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Cool! I will work on it one gtkgl makes its way into the gnome libs:) > Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. AFAIK xkeycaps does not use xkb geometry, does it? The "beauty" of our image is mostly limited by that info. > Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours > and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can > work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in > the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and > perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. True, "test mode" is another solution to a problem. But it is actually not far from the solution of my friend - just open the text editor and press evey key twice (to say the truth, I see no difference other than ability to test safely special keys by grabbing the entire keyboard input). IMHO this solution is less usable. > (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a > toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input > to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. > It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, > as you could "program" them independently of the application) By any chance, don't you remember the name of the app? Just to have a look, you know. So, summing things up, the only viable solution so far is to use GtkExtender, putting it under the notebook. Are there other viable solutions? Sergey _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From adam@pubcrawler.org Thu Jul 22 10:55:47 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from postal.seas.wustl.edu (postal.seas.wustl.edu [128.252.21.102]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38ACA3B0D14 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clarion.cec.wustl.edu (clarion.cec.wustl.edu [128.252.21.3]) by postal.seas.wustl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6MEqCE28518; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:52:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (adam@localhost) by clarion.cec.wustl.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i6MEtghj021620; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: clarion.cec.wustl.edu: adam owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "Adam D. Lopresto" To: Alan Horkan Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, -7.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Report: -7.1/5.0 ---- Start SpamAssassin results -7.10 points, 5 required; * 0.0 -- Message-Id indicates a non-spam MUA (Pine) * -0.0 -- Has a valid-looking References header * -0.4 -- Has a X-Authentication-Warning header * -0.4 -- Has a In-Reply-To header * -0.5 -- BODY: Contains what looks like an email attribution * -5.4 -- BODY: Bayesian classifier says spam probability is 1 to 10% [score: 0.0647] * -0.4 -- BODY: Contains what looks like a quoted email text * 0.0 -- Reply with quoted text ---- End of SpamAssassin results X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 08:15:00 -0400 Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:55:47 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Alan Horkan wrote: > > > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a > > You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if > you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and > you can turn on the tree view. While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. (Also should have all the normal nautilus nifty stuff, like open folders being highlighted, middle double clicking a folder should open it and close the tree view, should be in the menu from any folder window, possibly should even have an interface to the bookmarks, etc). -- Adam Lopresto http://cec.wustl.edu/~adam/ Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject. From jrn5a@cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu Thu Jul 22 13:45:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu (guppy.mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.218]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457263B0DC8 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.143.22.8] (account jrn5a@cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu) by cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.1.8) with HTTP id 91453559 for usability@gnome.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:45:07 -0400 From: "Justin Ryan Nevitt" To: usability@gnome.org X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro WebUser Interface v.4.1.8 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:45:07 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 08:15:29 -0400 Subject: [Usability] sound as user interface aid X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:45:11 -0000 Ok so i had this idea...which is based on some work i've done/encountered with the auditory community but I don't know where I should go to start the project. I was thinking the KDE team or gnome team might be interested or i might start my own sourceforge project (though I've never managed a project there)...the intention is for it to be opensource and available to everyone: Proposal: Sound Localization Sound Layer Introduction It has been shown in many different studies that users are more efficient in a multi-task environment where sound is used to direct their attention. This is especially true in immersive environments such as airplane cockpits and so called ?information cockpits? (I know i should cite someone here). For example a pilot benefits greatly from hearing alerts, which seem to come from the object that needs attention. Similarly, there are business and home applications for this type of attention management. For instance an alert could direct you to the physical location of your mailbox when you have a new message or it could alert you to a window containing a rapidly climbing stock price. The idea: The idea for this project is to create a sound layer/plugin that brings sound localization type attention management to the everyday PC. This layer should be made to work on linux and windows machines and will be opensource. Implementation: The implementation of this idea should be fairly straightforward. At its simplest level the layer will take information about application or icon location and modify the panning of sound output to direct attention to particular areas of the desktop. The application should be no harder to write than a simple mixer (although it should be able to play sounds at different panning locations at the same time.) The program should also have a tiny memory footprint. Additional adjustable parameters: Intensity of panning Individual application settings People probably will not want their music to be localized Should be easy to turn on and off (tray icon possibly) Turn real time panning on and off If someone moves a window while it is creating sound will the panning move with it or will it reset only after the window is dropped? The bottom line is...this attention management stuff is nothing new. However, it has always been implemented on the application level and never as part of a sound layer or a interface plugin. From reinout@cs.vu.nl Sun Jul 25 17:48:50 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from flits.cs.vu.nl (flits.cs.vu.nl [192.31.231.65]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1283B106E for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 17:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flits.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #91) id m1BoqrO-0001wiC; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48 +0200 Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Gnome Usability List Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:48:51 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Uno Engborg wrote: > But for this to work we would probably need a new type of popup menu. > One that doesn't pop up the popup until the mouse is moved out on the > arrow. That way the base element of the menu would be selectable on > its own. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82162 regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 Against Software Patents in the EU - swpat.ffii.org From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:47:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FDE33B0E46 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m69so58639rne for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.75.57 with SMTP id x57mr97642rna; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:47:21 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:48:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7793B10DD for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so70853rnk for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.12.79 with SMTP id 79mr497684rnl; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:17 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:48:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.200]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD43C3B10D6 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so70861rnk for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.12.79 with SMTP id 79mr497780rnl; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:21 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:48:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA393B0A07 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so70858rnk for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.12.79 with SMTP id 79mr497753rnl; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:21 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From julo@altern.org Mon Jul 26 05:17:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60FF53B117A for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 05:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [213.36.36.149] (213.36.36.149) by mail.libertysurf.net (6.5.036) id 41048CB500067A2A for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:15:03 +0200 From: Julien Olivier To: Gnome Usability List Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:14:58 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:17:23 -0000 Hi Here are a few ideas I submitted to bugzilla.gnome.org (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131544) about Rhythmbox, but never got any comment. So I decided to forward them here, hoping that it could get more attention: Watching my friends use Rhythmbox on my computer, I noticed that the current search interface can be confusing in 2 common scenarii: 1st one: - You are looking for a song using the browser. - You set the artist/album but can't find the song in the (filtered) list - You then try using the search dialog In this scenario, the search will fail because the user forgot to reset the filters to all artists/all albums. I saw that happening a lot (always actually) when other people used rhythmbox. My proposition would be to automatically reset the artist/album filters when you perform a new search. But I guess some people wouldn't like it... So another solution would be to have the following UI: Search [ ] among |songs from [name of the artist]| |songs from [name of the album] | |all songs | 2nd one: - You are looking for a song named "Penny Lane" using the search field - You found your song and play it - You then click on an artist in the artist list (for example "Madonna") In this scenario, nothing appears in the song list because the user forgot to reset the search (by selecting "Penny Lane" and pressing DEL). And as Madonna never sang Penny Lane (AFAIK), nothing appears. My proposition would be simply blank the search field when changing the artist or the album filter. What do you think of those propositions ? -- Julien Olivier From jcs116@york.ac.uk Mon Jul 26 05:39:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk (pythagoras.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.140]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F5F3B08A5 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 05:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [82.68.105.97] (helo=slate.badgerhaus) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Bp1wo-0007lH-2G for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:06 +0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: John Spray To: Gnome Usability List In-Reply-To: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:39:00 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.105.97] X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:07 -0000 On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 10:14, Julien Olivier wrote: > Search [ ] among |songs from [name of the artist]| > |songs from [name of the album] | > |all songs | I'm not sure I understand how you're suggesting that interface be laid out onscreen. Is this to be an extra list box in the main window? > My proposition would be simply blank the search field when changing the > artist or the album filter. I completely understand the motivation for doing this: I've thought about it myself. However, I think it depends upon the idea that the user uses the search box primarily for searching the whole library. The current functionality of the search box includes searches limited by artist(s) or album(s): to blank the search box when selecting artists demands that the user specify first the artist, then the search. It's an arbitrary limitation on the user, and it's not obvious that that's going to happen. I agree that the search box presents UI problems. Here are a couple of ideas of my own: -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to manually clear the search box. -Change the functionality of the search box. Given that its primary function is for search the whole library (since in most cases a particular artist can be searched by eye), perhaps this should be made its only function? A longer label such as "Search the whole library", and when there's text in that box, disable the artist/album/genre lists and have the song list present results from the whole library. My second suggestion is clearly a sacrifice of functionality for clearer UI: its implementation would depends entirely on how severe people think the search box UI problems are. -- John Spray From julo@altern.org Mon Jul 26 08:57:39 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373663B0828 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [213.36.36.30] (213.36.36.30) by mail.libertysurf.net (6.5.036) id 4104E88000038137; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:57:34 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: Julien Olivier To: John Spray In-Reply-To: <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:57:34 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:57:39 -0000 On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 11:39, John Spray wrote: > On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 10:14, Julien Olivier wrote: > > Search [ ] among |songs from [name of the artist]| > > |songs from [name of the album] | > > |all songs | > I'm not sure I understand how you're suggesting that interface be laid > out onscreen. Is this to be an extra list box in the main window? > I was thinking of a 1-line select box, like the one next to "save to folder" in GNOME's files save dialog. But maybe a radio box would be better, even if it takes more room (the advantage being that you can see all the choices at the same time...). > I agree that the search box presents UI problems. Here are a couple of > ideas of my own: > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > manually clear the search box. > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... > -Change the functionality of the search box. Given that its primary > function is for search the whole library (since in most cases a > particular artist can be searched by eye), perhaps this should be made > its only function? A longer label such as "Search the whole library", > and when there's text in that box, disable the artist/album/genre lists > and have the song list present results from the whole library. > My second suggestion is clearly a sacrifice of functionality for clearer > UI: its implementation would depends entirely on how severe people think > the search box UI problems are. I wouldn't mind the loss of functionality that your proposition would induce, as I only use the search box to look for music in the whole collection. But I guess it could disturb other users... -- Julien Olivier From boris@alum.mit.edu Mon Jul 26 09:39:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39ACB3B068A for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Info: This message was accepted for relay by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net as the sender used SMTP authentication X-Trace: HwC5moIL0Cj6ICE04et8LdDWSqgyHedmjQmx+ZjAjGMIBpQOHKZ8Cw== Received: from dialup-4.156.99.4.dial1.boston1.level3.net ([4.156.99.4] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #7) id 1Bp5hE-0006ZP-00; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <446FD022-DF09-11D8-85D9-00306578F772@alum.mit.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Boris Goldowsky Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:50 -0400 To: John Spray X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:39:18 -0000 On Jul 26, 2004, at 5:39 AM, John Spray wrote: > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > manually clear the search box. I think that would be very helpful; the blank screen is quite uninformative. The annoyance of clearing the search box could be alleviated by providing a clear button so it only takes one click. The clear button should be available any time there's text in the search box; not just when there are no search results. I hate saying "let's do it just like this other OS", but as a user of both Gnome and Mac OS X, one thing I've grown to love about OS X is the search box that is used across applications: it is visually distinctive, so it doesn't even require a label, and it manages to contain controls for adjusting the scope of the search and a clear button, without taking up much extra space. (There's a screenshot at http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/finder/). It would be nice to think about this issue beyond rhythmbox, and establish some Gnome-wide consistency about how searches and their related controls are presented. Bng -- Boris Goldowsky From smoke@medien.akbild.ac.at Mon Jul 26 13:47:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from viefep16-int.chello.at (viefep16-int.chello.at [213.46.255.17]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9E03B0796 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [80.110.99.166] by viefep16-int.chello.at (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20040726174742.CPEF28397.viefep16-int.chello.at@[80.110.99.166]> for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:47:42 +0200 Received: from smoke by 80.110.99.166 with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1Bp9Ze-0000s7-00 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:47:42 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: markus hammer To: Gnome UI In-Reply-To: <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: sabotage communications Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:47:41 +0200 Message-Id: <1090864061.3241.1.camel@80.110.99.166> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Sender: markus hammer X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:47:47 -0000 Am Mon, den 26.07.2004 um 14:57 Uhr +0200 schrieb Julien Olivier: > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > > manually clear the search box. > > > > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found > no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... good idea, users need feedback on whats happening inside the computer, giving a blank Space with no feedback is not very user friendly... -- markus hammer hm@sabotage.at From menesis@chatsubo.lt Mon Jul 26 13:54:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from kauneta.net (net-253.kal.kalnieciai.lt [81.7.65.253]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFA43B0808 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.16.1.48] (helo=maumas) by kauneta.net with smtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Bp9eg-000B71-82; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:52:55 +0300 Received: by maumas (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:54:03 +0300 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: Gediminas Paulauskas To: Julien Olivier In-Reply-To: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:54:03 +0300 Message-Id: <1090864443.4408.21.camel@maumas> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:54:09 -0000 On Pr, 2004-07-26 at 11:14 +0200, Julien Olivier wrote: > Hi > > Here are a few ideas I submitted to bugzilla.gnome.org > (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131544) about Rhythmbox, but > never got any comment. So I decided to forward them here, hoping that it > could get more attention: In both cases one solution would help: If search field is used together with album/artist filters, display a small warning bar at the top of search results, saying: "You have entered search criteria while some filters were active. Search the whole library.", where "Search..." string is a link which unsets the filters and executes the search. In second case display similar warning with different text, and clear the search field when link is clicked. This way the behavior would not change at all, allow people to search the old way and also make it possible to quickly correct their mistake. Warning bar is used in Microsoft Outlook for various mail display options, Mozilla Thunderbird for junk mail, yet unreleased IE 6 in SP2 and Mozilla Firefox nightlies for blocked popups & installs. See http://www.neilturner.me.uk/2004/Jul/13/more_on_new_firefox_features.html section "Information bar" for screenshots. menesis From jrockway@gmail.com Wed Jul 28 22:54:08 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D933B0E49 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 22:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so243686rnk for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 19:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.78.51 with SMTP id a51mr99621rnb; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 19:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <285fe7b10407281954330235f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:54:04 -0500 From: Jonathan Rockway To: usability@gnome.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] suggestions for the nautilus cd creator "start" dialog X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:54:08 -0000 Hi there. I'm new to the list, but I'd like to get involved in the GNOME project (and Usability is my favorite topic). Anyway, I have two suggestions for the Nautilus CD Creator. Firstly, there is a distinct absence of a "Cancel" button. To cancel, one must click the close button that the WM provides. This seems a bit unclean (and unclear) to me. Secondly, it would be nice to show the capacity of the media to which you are recording. There are several cases: partially full multi-session CDs, DVDs, non-standard CDs (the new 1000MB ones?), and it is unclear to the user as to what the program is going to do. I put 3 gigs in the folder and expected an error after I clicked start due to my drive being a DVD drive. However, everything worked fine. Ideally I shouldn't have to guess about this; a used/free indicator would be nice. Have a good evening, everyone. -- Jonathan Rockway From duffy@rpi.edu Thu Jul 29 02:02:28 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ares.penguinhosting.net (ares.penguinhosting.net [205.231.149.48]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9042D3B08C2 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29216 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ares.penguinhosting.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (ares.penguinhosting.net) Received: from [66.92.67.39] (authenticated as maureen) by ares.penguinhosting.net (MessageWall 1.0.9-test2) with SMTP; 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn?= Duffy To: Gnome Usability List In-Reply-To: <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:01:32 -0400 Message-Id: <1091080892.2655.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 (1.5.91-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 14:57 +0200, Julien Olivier wrote: > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found > no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... This is a great idea. What do you think of taking it a step further and perhaps above the track listings where the search results appear, have a sentence telling you what you are currently viewing, ie: Search [walrus] Genre Artist Album [ ] [ The Beatles ] [ ] The following are tracks in your collection by the artist "The Beatles" that contain the term "walrus:" Track Title etc. [ "I am the Walrus" The Beatles ] When you are viewing all, it could just say "The following are all of the tracks in your collection:" Maybe overkill? I think it might make what you're actually looking at clearer (although I'm not sure how many users would want to take the time to read it? But -it's short enough that you can glance at it. It may be less of a cognitive load to read a sentence than to parse all of the selection boxes and come up with that sentence in your head if that makes sense.) -It also shouldn't take up that much space. -It may be a better solution than Julien's very good suggestion of having a drop-down so users could pick "search from album/artist/all" because users may get the impression that you couldn't search for example, for all songs by Phish in a "live music" genre, using two filters at the same time. I feel strongly that the functionality of the search box doesn't have to be impaired, especially because I feel that there are solutions for making the state of the track listing window clearer to the user to clear up the search box "no results" confusion. ~Máirín From liste@pimpzkru.de Thu Jul 29 02:07:06 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail-out.m-online.net (mail-out.m-online.net [212.18.0.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 723543B0734 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.m-online.net (svr14.m-online.net [192.168.3.144]) by svr8.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781CF52C60 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pimpzkru.dyndns.org (ppp-82-135-1-142.mnet-online.de [82.135.1.142]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A35EF4EB for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pimpzkru.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5B5CB6BC for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pimpzkru.dyndns.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vegaserver [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12532-05 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.169.18.2] (renatepc.pimpzkru [10.169.18.2]) (using SSLv3 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pimpzkru.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3263CB6BB for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: Sebastian Heinlein To: usability@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1090864061.3241.1.camel@80.110.99.166> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> <1090864061.3241.1.camel@80.110.99.166> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:28 +0200 Message-Id: <1091081188.22632.5.camel@renatepc.pimpzkru> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p9 (Debian) at the GeekWG X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 06:07:06 -0000 Am Montag, den 26.07.2004, 19:47 +0200 schrieb markus hammer: > Am Mon, den 26.07.2004 um 14:57 Uhr +0200 schrieb Julien Olivier: > > > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > > > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > > > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > > > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > > > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > > > manually clear the search box. > > > > > > > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found > > no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... > > good idea, users need feedback on whats happening inside the computer, > giving a blank Space with no feedback is not very user friendly... I am also interested in this discussion, since I work on the synaptic package manager and we thought about implementing such an instant search to provide a faster access to the large number of packages available in some distrus (there are nearly 15000 packages in Debian). Regards, Sebastian From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Thu Jul 29 11:57:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B52E3B1040 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:57:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-eris-2 ([129.156.85.26]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6TFvrin001776 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.eris-mail1.uk.sun.com by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0I1M00601EUNGS@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for usability@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:57:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from cdelab89.ireland.sun.com (cdelab89.Ireland.Sun.COM [129.156.226.189]) by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I1M002IWF0HTW@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:57:53 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:58:11 +0100 From: Calum Benson Subject: Re: [Usability] suggestions for the nautilus cd creator "start" dialog In-reply-to: <285fe7b10407281954330235f@mail.gmail.com> To: Jonathan Rockway Message-id: <1091116691.21153.45.camel@cdelab89.ireland.sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsytems Ireland Ltd. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <285fe7b10407281954330235f@mail.gmail.com> Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 15:57:57 -0000 On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 03:54, Jonathan Rockway wrote: > Anyway, I have two suggestions for the Nautilus CD Creator. Welcome aboard! For requests/fixes as concrete as these ones against existing products, it's probably better just to file them at bugzilla.gnome.org, cc'ing usability-maint@bugzilla.gnome.org and adding the usability keyword... this list is better for the more general arm-waving kind of stuff :) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From davyd@madeley.id.au Sat Jul 31 03:10:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au [203.56.14.38]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D636E3B1130 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 03:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pingu.cook.theducks.org (cook.theducks.org [203.22.197.49]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C125E1F8002 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:10:34 +0800 (WST) From: Davyd Madeley To: usability@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El" Message-Id: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Resent-From: Davyd Madeley Resent-To: usability@gnome.org Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:10:17 +0800 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 Resent-Message-Id: <20040731071034.C125E1F8002@oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au> Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:10:34 +0800 (WST) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:58:31 -0400 Subject: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 07:10:20 -0000 --=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I need some advice from the gurus who dwell here. 1) how should this dialog look in your eyes? http://davyd.angrygoats.net/images/battstat-applet-sample.png and 2) should I merge this patch? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D131322#c9 regards --d PS: please CC, not on list --=20 http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/ =20 PGP Fingerprint 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA --=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/pgp/ iD8DBQBBCwXjLt27T1GRbNoRAujVAKCq4xspy/CzhUg9BjRH8q0t9J4jgwCdG62/ yK748ws6prm3hOedqdGM+mk= =XYOU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El-- From stevelist@silverorange.com Sat Jul 31 10:20:00 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from nova.silverorange.com (nova.silverorange.com [198.167.161.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5683B1346 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (unknown [142.176.234.122]) by nova.silverorange.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EFE7C2496; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:19:57 -0300 (ADT) Message-ID: <410BAA8D.7010207@silverorange.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:19:57 -0300 From: Steven Garrity User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040519) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Davyd Madeley Subject: Re: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus References: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> In-Reply-To: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 14:20:00 -0000 Davyd Madeley wrote: > 1) how should this dialog look in your eyes? > http://davyd.angrygoats.net/images/battstat-applet-sample.png Not a whole lot different than it does now. However, I think it should have a primary header message, with a more detail message below, as in explained and shown in example in this section of the Human Interface Guidelines: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/windows-alert.html#alert-text The strong (bold) heading will follow the HIG, and make the dialog easier to 'scan' and quickly recognize. Thanks, Steven Garrity From reinout@cs.vu.nl Sat Jul 31 11:25:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from flits.cs.vu.nl (flits.cs.vu.nl [192.31.231.65]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA153B0789 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flits.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #95) id m1BqvkC-0001vdC; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:25 +0200 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:25:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Davyd Madeley Subject: Re: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus In-Reply-To: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> Message-ID: References: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:25:57 -0000 On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Davyd Madeley wrote: > 1) how should this dialog look in your eyes? In addition to what Steven already said: the alert should probably use the stock information icon (light bulb). Furthermore the string '(0%, charged)' looks a bit cryptic. 'Charged' seems to indicate the opposite of what the message is warning against. It might as well be omitted. > should I merge this patch? > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131322#c9 Given the importance of the warning I'm inclined to say yes, provided that interaction with other windows isn't prohibited (i.e. don't make it system modal). good luck, -- Reinout van Schouwen Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 - wie helpt me aan een nieuwe kamer in/rond Amsterdam? - From reinout@cs.vu.nl Sat Jul 31 15:19:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from flits.cs.vu.nl (flits.cs.vu.nl [192.31.231.65]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DFC13B07E1 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flits.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #95) id m1BqzO6-0001vdC; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:19 +0200 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:19:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Davyd Madeley Subject: Re: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus In-Reply-To: <1091287861.2184.54.camel@pingu> Message-ID: References: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> <1091287861.2184.54.camel@pingu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 19:19:23 -0000 On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Davyd Madeley wrote: > My apologies for the string '0% charged', this is simply an effect of > what I did to simulate the dialog, normally it would say something like > (10%, 0:24 remaining) or something like that. In that case, I would suggest just '24 minutes remaining'. It's not clear offhand whether 0:24 means 24 seconds or 24 minutes... regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 - wie helpt me aan een nieuwe kamer in/rond Amsterdam? - From damianhaase01@yahoo.com Thu Jul 1 11:14:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.169.227]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 656693B0C39 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 11:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.3.79.2?) (damianhaase01@216.115.180.7 with login) by smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 15:13:17 -0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] desktop entry names, generic? From: Damian Haase To: usability@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1088693671.10252.32.camel@trout> References: <20040630160138.F05743B0F28@menubar.gnome.org> <1088693671.10252.32.camel@trout> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr" Message-Id: <1088695069.10252.39.camel@trout> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 11:17:50 -0400 X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:14:07 -0000 --=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 12:01, Bryan Clark wrote: > Applications outside of the core desktop should brand themselves as > they are, however the core desktop applications should be branded as > GNOME and that brand is simply not having one. > > > > I don't think this kind of branding is helping people, while we are > proud of the applications that make up the GNOME Desktop, each > application that's included in the desktop becomes part of GNOME as it > is integrated. I view us kind of like the Borg, resistance is futile > and you will be assimilated. Another thing to consider is scanability. If there are four Music Players installed (granted, maybe not a common case), and they all follow the format "_____ Music Player" with the GNOME default leaving off the "_____", then the menu would look something like this: Another Music Player Gary's Music Player Music Player Slick Music Player The issue I see here is that by asking all GNOME app developers to follow the "____ Music Player" format, the only distiguishing characteristic in a list of like items is the "____", and the GNOME default, lacking that distinguishing characteristic, may get lost in the noise. There may be other ways to allow an application to display its "primary" status than by altering the menu name. Perhaps some visual distinction, such as a highlight color, or even bold text. Maybe position in the list. This is a good subject for small-scale testing. I could write up a little test plan. That is, unless this is a closed conversation. - Damian Haase --=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 12:01, Bryan Clark wrote:

Applications outside of the core desktop should brand themselves as 
they are, however the core desktop applications should be branded as 
GNOME and that brand is simply not having one.

<snip>

I don't think this kind of branding is helping people, while we are
proud of the applications that make up the GNOME Desktop, each
application that's included in the desktop becomes part of GNOME as it
is integrated.  I view us kind of like the Borg, resistance is futile
and you will be assimilated.

Another thing to consider is scanability. If there are four Music Players installed (granted, maybe not a common case), and they all follow the format "_____ Music Player" with the GNOME default leaving off the "_____", then the menu would look something like this:

  Another Music Player
  Gary's Music Player
  Music Player
  Slick Music Player

The issue I see here is that by asking all GNOME app developers to follow the "____ Music Player" format, the only distiguishing characteristic in a list of like items is the "____", and the GNOME default, lacking that distinguishing characteristic, may get lost in the noise.

There may be other ways to allow an application to display its "primary" status than by altering the menu name. Perhaps some visual distinction, such as a highlight color, or even bold text. Maybe position in the list.

This is a good subject for small-scale testing. I could write up a little test plan. That is, unless this is a closed conversation.

- Damian Haase --=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr-- From mightyquinn@charter.net Sat Jul 3 07:18:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mxsf12.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf12.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.212]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CB03B08AB for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mxip10.cluster1.charter.net (mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.140]) by mxsf12.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i63BKM5J019744 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:20:22 -0400 Received: from 24.247.247.83.bay.mi.chartermi.net (HELO sayuki) (24.247.247.83) by mxip10.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2004 07:18:29 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.81R,146,1083556800"; d="scan'208"; a="79328024:sNHT12480580" From: Dave Ahlswede To: usability@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:18:25 +0000 Message-Id: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: mightyquinn@letterboxes.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:18:29 -0000 After a little "usabilitily study" I conducted on myself, consisting of renaming and moving about a dozen files between partitions, I discovered a couple things that irked me about nautilus. First, I think the move to trash option on the menu is too close to the rename option.. I accidentally moved several files to the trash.. while a reversible action, it did break my train of thought. Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be used to force a move in this case. I thought it might be better to run this by people here before I bugged the nautilus folks about it. From azz@us-lot.org Sat Jul 3 07:44:19 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx5.kent.ac.uk (mx5.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.21.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856F63B0C67 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from myrtle.ukc.ac.uk ([129.12.3.176] ident=exim) by mx5.kent.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BgiwH-0000p2-He for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:13 +0100 Received: from swallow.ukc.ac.uk ([129.12.4.234] helo=cartman.at.fivegeeks.net ident=ats1) by myrtle.ukc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BgiwH-00052z-8D for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:13 +0100 Received: from azz by cartman.at.fivegeeks.net with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BgiwG-0007tl-19 for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:12 +0100 To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> From: Adam Sampson Organization: Things I did not know at first I learned by doing twice. Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> (Dave Ahlswede's message of "Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:18:25 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) XEmacs/21.4 (Security Through Obscurity, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: Adam Sampson X-UKC-Mail-System: No virus detected X-UKC-SpamCheck: X-UKC-MailScanner-From: azz@us-lot.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:44:19 -0000 Dave Ahlswede writes: > Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying > instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move > is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move > here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be > used to force a move in this case. This used to be inconsistent with the documentation -- I reported it as bug 128227, and it got fixed by changing the docs. I'd be curious to hear why it's better for Nautilus to behave differently when dragging between filesystems; I would have assumed that consistent behaviour would have been more useful, particularly given that it's really not obvious when two folders are actually on different filesystems. What's wrong with having Nautilus always move when dragging with no modifiers held down, and always copy when dragging with Shift held down (or vica versa)? -- Adam Sampson From jcs116@york.ac.uk Sat Jul 3 07:48:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk (pythagoras.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.140]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148DD3B08EB for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [82.68.105.97] (helo=slate.badgerhaus) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Bgj0c-0007su-Ps for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:48:42 +0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: John Spray To: usability@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1088855322.26219.13.camel@slate> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:48:42 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.105.97] X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:48:47 -0000 On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 12:18, Dave Ahlswede wrote: > the only way to get it to move is > to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move here" > from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be used to > force a move in this case. In the name of completeness, I'll mention that you can also button-2 drag to get the menu when you drop. John From kodis@papa.kodis.org Sat Jul 3 08:45:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A91DD3B06F5 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from papa.kodis.org (pcp02267821pcs.longhl01.md.comcast.net[68.50.98.85]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2004070312454901300jc286e>; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:45:50 +0000 Received: from papa.kodis.org (papa.kodis.org [127.0.0.1]) by papa.kodis.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i63CjmgZ003403 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:48 -0400 Received: (from kodis@localhost) by papa.kodis.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i63Cjmo8003400 for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:48 -0400 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:48 -0400 From: John Kodis To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] desktop entry names, generic? Message-ID: <20040703124548.GA3339@papa.kodis.org> References: <20040630160138.F05743B0F28@menubar.gnome.org> <1088693671.10252.32.camel@trout> <1088695069.10252.39.camel@trout> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1088695069.10252.39.camel@trout> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:45:51 -0000 On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 11:17:50AM -0400, Damian Haase wrote: > Another thing to consider is scanability. If there are four Music > Players installed (granted, maybe not a common case), and they all > follow the format "_____ Music Player" with the GNOME default leaving > off the "_____", then the menu would look something like this: > > Another Music Player > Gary's Music Player > Music Player > Slick Music Player > > The issue I see here is that by asking all GNOME app developers to > follow the "____ Music Player" format, the only distiguishing > characteristic in a list of like items is the "____", and the GNOME > default, lacking that distinguishing characteristic, may get lost in > the noise. > > There may be other ways to allow an application to display its > "primary" status than by altering the menu name. Perhaps some visual > distinction, such as a highlight color, or even bold text. Maybe > position in the list. Putting "Music Player" first in the list would do it, although I'd prefer just supplying a distinguishing name for each. There was also a proposal at one time to solve this sort of problem by having the menu at the level above this one show "Music Player >". Clicking on this would start the default music player, but when the user clicked on/hovered over the little arrow on the right hand side, a submenu with Another, Slick, and Gary's Music Players would appear. That seemed like an elegant, intuitive, and flexible solution to me, but the idea never went anywhere for reasons that I no longer recall. -- John Kodis. From chris@gnome-de.org Sat Jul 3 16:01:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.bytecamp.net (mail.bytecamp.net [212.204.60.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 88EF03B06B4 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 70560 invoked by uid 88); 3 Jul 2004 20:01:09 -0000 Received: from pd9e9642b.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.123.111?) (chris%gnome-de.org@217.233.100.43) by mail.bytecamp.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2004 20:01:09 -0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: Christian Neumair To: mightyquinn@letterboxes.org In-Reply-To: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:01:37 +0200 Message-Id: <1088884897.18025.8.camel@widget> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 20:01:15 -0000 Am Samstag, den 03.07.2004, 11:18 +0000 schrieb Dave Ahlswede: > I think the move to trash option on the menu is too close to the > rename option.. I accidentally moved several files to the trash.. while > a reversible action, it did break my train of thought. Weird. There should be a separator between rename and move to trash. Maybe your nautilus version is broken or outdated. > Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying > instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move is > to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move here" > from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be used to > force a move in this case. The menu should pop up if you drag using the middle mouse button as well. But indeed you're right, shift should cause Nautilus to move the files, although it doesn't ATM. > I thought it might be better to run this by people here before I bugged > the nautilus folks about it. Feel free to bug 'em by filing a bug report :). Thanks for your efforts. regs, Chris From thorsten.seitz@web.de Sat Jul 3 18:35:26 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp06.web.de (smtp06.web.de [217.72.192.224]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6343B084A for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [217.236.148.202] (helo=pd9ec94ca.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) by smtp06.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (WEB.DE 4.101 #44) id 1Bgt6T-0007G5-00 for usability@gnome.org; Sun, 04 Jul 2004 00:35:25 +0200 From: Thorsten Seitz To: usability@gnome.org Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 00:35:08 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Sender: thorsten.seitz@web.de Subject: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: thorsten.seitz@web.de List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:35:26 -0000 Having upgraded to GNOME 2.6 I'm very happy with the spatial Nautilus and t= he=20 new Filechooser. Thanks to all involved! To round some corners I'd like to make some suggestions: 1. It would be nice to have the "Open Location" action not just available v= ia=20 Ctrl-L from a Nautilus window but from the Action menu in the panel, too. 2. The "Open Location" dialog should work like that of the Filechooser, i.e= =2E=20 it should offer completions in a drop down list, too. 3. Renaming the Home folder on the desktop should work on the Filechooser,= =20 too, i.e. the Home folder should appear with its new name in the bookmark=20 list and on the path button. (The new name should be used throughout GNOME,= =20 i.e. in the Application menu of the panel, too). 4. If (3) is not possible it should at least be possible to rename the Home= =20 folder with respect to the Filechooser, because in the German translation i= ts=20 name is "Pers=F6nlicher Ordner" which is rather long for the path button. 5. No drives should appear in the bookmark list of the Filechooser. Instead= =20 the Computer location should appear there to allow relatively quick access = to=20 all drives. The reason is that (a) not all drives in the list are mounted o= r=20 interesting (e.g. I have a CD-ROM, CD-Recorder, Floppy and two unmounted=20 drives (for backups); all these are used almost never when opening/saving=20 files but take up precious space in the bookmark list). 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in=20 Nautilus windows. What do you all think? =2DThorsten From mightyquinn@charter.net Sat Jul 3 19:27:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.217]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FC23B06FF for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 19:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mxip06.cluster1.charter.net (mxip06a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.136]) by mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i63NTXs7002892 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 19:29:33 -0400 Received: from 24.247.247.83.bay.mi.chartermi.net (HELO sayuki) (24.247.247.83) by mxip06.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2004 19:27:50 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.81R,146,1083556800"; d="scan'208"; a="80895315:sNHT13011890" Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: Dave Ahlswede To: Christian Neumair In-Reply-To: <1088884897.18025.8.camel@widget> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> <1088884897.18025.8.camel@widget> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 19:27:48 -0400 Message-Id: <1088897268.21099.12.camel@sayuki> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: mightyquinn@letterboxes.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 23:27:51 -0000 On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 22:01 +0200, Christian Neumair wrote: > Am Samstag, den 03.07.2004, 11:18 +0000 schrieb Dave Ahlswede: > > I think the move to trash option on the menu is too close to the > > rename option.. I accidentally moved several files to the trash.. while > > a reversible action, it did break my train of thought. > > Weird. There should be a separator between rename and move to trash. > Maybe your nautilus version is broken or outdated. Actually, the separator bar is there, but at least with the LighthouseBlue GTK engine, it's about 1/3 of the width of an entry line. It's close enough that I still hit it instead of rename a couple times-- I'm not sure why it happened with this combo, and not elsewhere in the menu, though it may have something to do with the absence of a stock icon for rename by default, and icons in menu options seem to psychologically be an easier target to click. And actually, as I look around the menu a little more, my thoughts were to move it just above properties, but the division just above properties varies in size, so it might be harder to develop muscle-memory for it. I think in retrospect that this may be user error on my part and not a usability error in Nautilus. From reinout@cs.vu.nl Mon Jul 5 08:52:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from sloep115.cs.vu.nl (sloep115.cs.vu.nl [130.37.24.75]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA573B07F0 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 08:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sloep115.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #91) id m1BhSx4-000NchC; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:52 +0200 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:52:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Thorsten Seitz Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions In-Reply-To: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Message-ID: References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:52:09 -0000 On Sun, 4 Jul 2004, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > 1. It would be nice to have the "Open Location" action not just > available via Ctrl-L from a Nautilus window but from the Action > menu in the panel, too. Agreed, but it would be even better if there were an entry field on the panel where you could enter any network- or filesystem location. GNOME would take care that the right handler for the location is chosen. > 2. The "Open Location" dialog should work like that of the > Filechooser, i.e. it should offer completions in a drop down list, > too. Perhaps this could be nicely combined with Nautilus' Connect to Server dialog. See also http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D139105 > 3. Renaming the Home folder on the desktop should work on the > Filechooser, too, i.e. the Home folder should appear with its new IMHO the desktop should *be* the home folder, but this discussion has been closed, you can set the gconf key but it's not going to be default in the forseeable future. > name is "Pers=F6nlicher Ordner" which is rather long for the path button. Now *that's* interesting. At GUADEC I talked to people who were convinced that we (Dutch l10n team) were the only ones that translated 'Home' on GNOME that way. > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. Disagree. The filechooser is a very different beast than Nautilus. There would be no immediate feedback if you bookmarked a folder that way, and the user wouldn't have an easy way to know that those folders will end up in the filechooser bookmarks. > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > Nautilus windows. I do agree that the Locations should be extendable but I'm not sure this is the right way to do it. Have you filed RFE bugs for your suggestions? regards, --=20 Reinout van Schouwen=09=09=09Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl=09=09=09mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 =09Against Software Patents in the EU - swpat.ffii.org From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Mon Jul 5 14:12:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 72E923B0D5B for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 5 Jul 2004 19:12:56 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 19:12:49 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: Thorsten Seitz Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions In-Reply-To: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Message-ID: References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:12:58 -0000 > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > Nautilus windows. I think that is a great idea. I'm getting really annoyed at having all sorts of entirely seperate bookmarks in different places and needing to repeatedly add them (and it is just as bad in KDE, so if you mix an match GTK and Qt applications it adds to the madness). I doubt any applications could directly share the same bookmarks file applications really should include subfolder(s) with imported bookmarks so that in Nautilus i would have Bookmarks FileChooser Bookmarks Gthumb Bookmarks and similarly those applications would have a subfolder for Nautilus bookmarks. granted I have no clue how this might work in practice and I can see Epiphany being an especially difficult case but having to add the same bookmarks more than once is quite annoying. > What do you all think? Good ideas. - Alan From seguso.forever@tin.it Mon Jul 5 14:38:42 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from vsmtp4.tin.it (unknown [212.216.176.150]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA4E3B06EA for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.33] (82.51.115.214) by vsmtp4.tin.it (7.0.027) id 40ACC5B100B288B2 for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:38:37 +0200 From: Maurizio Colucci To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:39:13 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> In-Reply-To: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:38:42 -0000 Hello, here's my two pence: On Saturday 03 July 2004 15:35, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. 100 % agree > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > Nautilus windows. Disagree. I believe there should be a GLOBAL button on the gnome-panel, which opens the bookmark list. It would spare one click in some situation, and has no drawback over your solution, as far as I can see. PS: At the risk of repeating myself: I believe also a "recent locations" button should be in the gnome-panel. It works very well in my app: http://logicaldesktop.sourceforge.net (try it! It's easy, it's a python script). Mau From thorsten.seitz@web.de Mon Jul 5 16:29:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp08.web.de (smtp08.web.de [217.72.192.226]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545523B0A30 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [217.236.144.188] (helo=pd9ec90bc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) by smtp08.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (WEB.DE 4.101 #44) id 1Bha5l-00033F-00 for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:29:34 +0200 From: Thorsten Seitz To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 22:29:32 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> In-Reply-To: <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200407052229.32471.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Sender: thorsten.seitz@web.de X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: thorsten.seitz@web.de List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 20:29:38 -0000 On Tuesday 06 July 2004 05:39, Maurizio Colucci wrote: > On Saturday 03 July 2004 15:35, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. > > 100 % agree > > > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > > Nautilus windows. > > Disagree. I believe there should be a GLOBAL button on the gnome-panel, > which opens the bookmark list. It would spare one click in some situation, > and has no drawback over your solution, as far as I can see. Great idea! This button should include the standard Locations list, though. > PS: At the risk of repeating myself: I believe also a "recent locations" > button should be in the gnome-panel. It works very well in my app: That would be very nice, too! -Thorsten From seguso.forever@tin.it Mon Jul 5 18:33:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from vsmtp3.tin.it (vsmtp3alice.tin.it [212.216.176.143]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D6B33B0EC5 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 18:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.33] (82.51.115.214) by vsmtp3.tin.it (7.0.027) id 40CF29D700576161 for usability@gnome.org; Tue, 6 Jul 2004 00:33:42 +0200 From: Maurizio Colucci To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 00:34:18 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> <200407052229.32471.thorsten.seitz@web.de> In-Reply-To: <200407052229.32471.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200407060034.18902.seguso.forever@tin.it> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:33:43 -0000 On Monday 05 July 2004 13:29, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > Disagree. I believe there should be a GLOBAL button on the gnome-panel, > > which opens the bookmark list. =A0It would spare one click in some > > situation, and has no drawback over your solution, as far as I can see. > > Great idea! This button should include the standard Locations list, thoug= h. Thanks :-) However, a menu entry in nautilus would still be needed for who uses nautil= us=20 without the gnome-panel. From msuarezalvarez@arnet.com.ar Sat Jul 10 22:47:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp3.arnet.com.ar (smtp3.arnet.com.ar [200.45.191.14]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E9863B076E for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13315 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 02:45:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.0.3?) (200.45.96.152) by smtp3.arnet.com.ar with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 02:45:13 -0000 From: Mariano =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Su=E1rez-Alvarez?= To: GNOME Usability List Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh" Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:46:55 -0300 Message-Id: <1089514015.2762.40.camel@grothendieck.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9 Subject: [Usability] HIG dialogs X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 02:47:46 -0000 --=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Since the search function of our mailing lists is broken, and google does not give me anything useful, I'll take the risk of bringing this up:=20 Can some one point me to instructions on how to get the exterior borders of the buttons in the action area of a GtkDialog to be aligned with the borders of the rest of the dialog in a way that does not break when one changes the theme?=20 Glade allows you to set the corresponding style properties on the horizontal button box in a dialog, but these is not theme-change resistant. -- m --=20 Mariano Su=C3=A1rez-Alvarez http://www.gnome.org/~mariano --=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBA8KofEwEqMdgw70URAtM0AJ9962f8Zf4jUVq+THDGYGmUyA1i3gCeMehr IHxasnyyr2peTZepNT26fVs= =evUQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh-- From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Tue Jul 13 21:00:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ni-mail2.dna.utvinternet.net (ni-mail2.dna.utvinternet.net [194.46.8.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924B33B0A8A; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sputnik.localdomain (unverified [195.218.110.125]) by ni-mail2.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 3.1.302.0) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:00:53 +0100 Received: by sputnik.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 500) id B2F9B132FF3; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:02:15 +0100 (IST) From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" To: usability@gnome.org, gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Udaltsoft Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:02:15 +0100 Message-Id: <1089766935.17599.50.camel@sputnik> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 Cc: Subject: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:00:54 -0000 Hi all Yesterday I merged the branch which adds one extra tab to the keyboard preferences. The tab is "Layout preview". I realize that current solution is far from perfect usability-wise - it is there just to display the existence of such functionality. The rendering is somewhat ugly - but the main issue is that I do not have clear vision WHERE and HOW to display the preview. Should it be just separate window existing aside with the preferences window? Should it be modal popup dialog? Any comments/ideas are very welcome. The screenshots can be found here: http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv.png http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv2.png Regards, Sergey From bclark@redhat.com Tue Jul 13 23:31:47 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98983B0A90 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6E3Vle1027822 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:47 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6E3Vl019187 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:47 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.118] (vpn64-23.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.23]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6E3VEhx025365 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List In-Reply-To: <1089766935.17599.50.camel@sputnik> References: <1089766935.17599.50.camel@sputnik> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:52 -0400 Message-Id: <1089775912.3549.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 (1.5.9.1-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 03:31:48 -0000 Hi Sergey ~ On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 02:02 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > Yesterday I merged the branch which adds one extra tab to the keyboard > preferences. The tab is "Layout preview". I realize that current > solution is far from perfect usability-wise - it is there just to > display the existence of such functionality. The rendering is somewhat > ugly - but the main issue is that I do not have clear vision WHERE and > HOW to display the preview. Should it be just separate window existing > aside with the preferences window? Should it be modal popup dialog? Any > comments/ideas are very welcome. A new tab is probably not the way to go for this. Perhaps we can first construct a storyboard for how this system is used and who it is used by. Then we can try to model the best interaction after that. > The screenshots can be found here: > > http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv.png > http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv2.png This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) Cheers, ~ Bryan From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 12:13:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21943B120C; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B756380F32; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:13:16 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:13:16 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:13:18 -0000 > I think the picture of the keyboard should be where it is. The > rendering needs a facelift, but I think it's in the right position. > Endless popups are just annoying. Well, for me extra window is annoying, true. But usability-wise showing and updating the popup on the tab 5 while the controls are on the tabs 2 and 3 - sounds really ugly (for example, it is not obvious at all that options on the tab 3 affect the layout as well as option on the tab 2). It is some kind of "driving blind". In the ideal world, person should be able look at the resulting layout at the same time as he/she changes the configuration. Sergey From sstephenson@gmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:26:01 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D5863B09B0 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:26:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d78so337409rnf for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.9.24 with SMTP id 24mr311481rni; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:25:41 -0400 From: Sam Stephenson To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" Subject: Re: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center In-Reply-To: <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:26:01 -0000 On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:13:16 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > > I think the picture of the keyboard should be where it is. The > > rendering needs a facelift, but I think it's in the right position. > > Endless popups are just annoying. > > Well, for me extra window is annoying, true. But usability-wise showing > and updating the popup on the tab 5 while the controls are on the tabs 2 > and 3 - sounds really ugly (for example, it is not obvious at all that > options on the tab 3 affect the layout as well as option on the tab 2). > It is some kind of "driving blind". In the ideal world, person should > be able look at the resulting layout at the same time as he/she changes > the configuration. What about a GtkExpander that contains the preview image positioned vertically in between the notebook and the bottom buttons? The dialog's height could grow and shrink as necessary. > Sergey Sam From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 12:42:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EC43B0C1B; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E2C80F32; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:35 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:42:37 -0000 > A new tab is probably not the way to go for this. Perhaps we can first > construct a storyboard for how this system is used and who it is used > by. Then we can try to model the best interaction after that. Well, the story is very simple (well, at least as I see it). First, this feature (like all the layouts configuration stuff) is only interesting for people using non-US layouts. Once such a user wants to use his national layout - in most cases, it has to choose which variant he/she wants to use - because most of layouts contain more than one variant. As one Ukrainian person said (translation from Russian): "For now, when I want to choose a suitable keyboard variant, I have to try all available variants and with each variant, press EVERY key TWICE (with and without Shift pressed)". FYI, currently there are 3 Russian variants in xorg distribution - and IIRC it is not the largest number for one country/language. So this preview screen allows to estimate visually whether the choosen layout and variant match the idea of the user of what they should be. Ideally, user should be able to see the layout selection widgets (tabs 2 and 3) and the preview - at the same time, simultaniously. So the "separate window" solution looks good from this POV - but the screen cluttering is my concern here. BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? > This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough > on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) Exactly. It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the geometry is generally described in X server geometry. Regards, Sergey From Glynn.Foster@Sun.COM Wed Jul 14 12:52:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32ECC3B0C17 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-eris-2 ([129.156.85.26]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6EGqaJ8026958 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.eris-mail1.uk.sun.com by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0I0U00J01PGKLA@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Glynn.Foster@Sun.COM) for usability@gnome.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:52:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from [10.0.1.4] (vpn-129-150-153-2.Aus.Sun.COM [129.150.153.2]) by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I0U007PSPJKWE@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:52:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 03:38:58 +1200 From: Glynn Foster Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center In-reply-to: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" Message-id: <1089560339.2638.27.camel@slipstream> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:52:38 -0000 Hey, > > This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough > > on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) > Exactly. It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other > than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the > geometry is generally described in X server geometry. So it almost feels that the keyboard layout should be part of the selection somehow ie. selecting a keyboard layout automatically updates the always visible keyboard preview, rather than manually having to click on a preview button to see the results of your selection. I guess I'm not convinced that an end user has any idea what the various keyboard layout descriptions mean and that pictures speak louder than words - ok, I'm slightly biased and narrow minded with a US layout. As to how you can present that in a user interface is another question. Glynn From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 13:04:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848783B0C4A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2DFF80F3F; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5670F.6050101@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Stephenson Subject: Re: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:04:29 -0000 > What about a GtkExpander that contains the preview image positioned > vertically in between the notebook and the bottom buttons? The > dialog's height could grow and shrink as necessary. Actually, this idea looks ok for me. The only potential is that if we put it OUTSIDE notebook - it will also be accessible from the tabs 1 and 4 which have nothing to do with layout. Sergey From liam@holoweb.net Wed Jul 14 13:12:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from dirk.holoweb.net (dirk2.holoweb.net [216.94.134.20]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F553B124A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dirk.holoweb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A88996A42A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center From: "Liam R. E. Quin" To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" In-Reply-To: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: W3C Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:08:42 -0400 Message-Id: <1089824922.5593.12.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90-3mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:12:38 -0000 On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 17:42 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several > layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going > to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 > and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user > choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. > It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other > than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the > geometry is generally described in X server geometry. You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, as you could "program" them independently of the application) Liam From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 15:16:36 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ni-mail3.dna.utvinternet.net (unknown [194.46.8.37]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2A23B12A1; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sputnik.localdomain (unverified [195.218.110.117]) by ni-mail3.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 3.1.302.0) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:16:36 +0100 Received: by sputnik.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 500) id 427A5132FF4; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:17:59 +0100 (IST) Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" To: Glynn Foster In-Reply-To: <1089560339.2638.27.camel@slipstream> References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> <1089560339.2638.27.camel@slipstream> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Udaltsoft Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:17:58 +0100 Message-Id: <1089832678.17599.54.camel@sputnik> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 19:16:36 -0000 > So it almost feels that the keyboard layout should be part of the > selection somehow ie. selecting a keyboard layout automatically updates Yeah, and it does now - it automatically updates. > the always visible keyboard preview, rather than manually having to > click on a preview button to see the results of your selection. I guess Sure. Even with the current design there is no special button - the update is automatic. But it is just in another tab:( > I'm not convinced that an end user has any idea what the various > keyboard layout descriptions mean and that pictures speak louder than > words - ok, I'm slightly biased and narrow minded with a US layout. Well, unfortunately some details of the layout are really better represented when they are shown. For Russian, it is punctuation characters which matters - their placement is very different in different variants so it is better to see the layout in order to find whether it is "yours" or not. Just "default" or "winkeys" gives little information on this subject. > As to how you can present that in a user interface is another question. Of course. Sergey From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Thu Jul 15 05:48:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-mx-03.ti.local (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 493A23B09C4; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.104]) by smtp-mx-03.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:48:31 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:48:26 -0300 Received: from mail-fe-01 ([192.168.220.33]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:30:03 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-05.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.168]) by mail-fe-01 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:04:38 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191168.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 17:02:29 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B733B0C36; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848783B0C4A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2DFF80F3F; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5670F.6050101@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Stephenson References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2004 17:04:38.0311 (UTC) FILETIME=[A56D0B70:01C469C4] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:48:52 -0000 > What about a GtkExpander that contains the preview image positioned > vertically in between the notebook and the bottom buttons? The > dialog's height could grow and shrink as necessary. Actually, this idea looks ok for me. The only potential is that if we put it OUTSIDE notebook - it will also be accessible from the tabs 1 and 4 which have nothing to do with layout. Sergey _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Thu Jul 15 06:40:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-mx-05.ti.local (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3227B3B068F; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.104]) by smtp-mx-05.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:39:52 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:39:51 -0300 Received: from mail-fe-02 ([192.168.220.43]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:18:46 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-03.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.166]) by mail-fe-02 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:42:52 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191166.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 16:40:44 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C887E3B1240; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:42:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EC43B0C1B; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E2C80F32; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:35 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: usability@gnome.org References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2004 16:42:52.0710 (UTC) FILETIME=[9B3A2460:01C469C1] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:40:11 -0000 > A new tab is probably not the way to go for this. Perhaps we can first > construct a storyboard for how this system is used and who it is used > by. Then we can try to model the best interaction after that. Well, the story is very simple (well, at least as I see it). First, this feature (like all the layouts configuration stuff) is only interesting for people using non-US layouts. Once such a user wants to use his national layout - in most cases, it has to choose which variant he/she wants to use - because most of layouts contain more than one variant. As one Ukrainian person said (translation from Russian): "For now, when I want to choose a suitable keyboard variant, I have to try all available variants and with each variant, press EVERY key TWICE (with and without Shift pressed)". FYI, currently there are 3 Russian variants in xorg distribution - and IIRC it is not the largest number for one country/language. So this preview screen allows to estimate visually whether the choosen layout and variant match the idea of the user of what they should be. Ideally, user should be able to see the layout selection widgets (tabs 2 and 3) and the preview - at the same time, simultaniously. So the "separate window" solution looks good from this POV - but the screen cluttering is my concern here. BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? > This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough > on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) Exactly. It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the geometry is generally described in X server geometry. Regards, Sergey _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From liam@holoweb.net Thu Jul 15 07:27:02 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail-fe-02 (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FE13B0678; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.104]) by mail-fe-02 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:26:43 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:25:26 -0300 Received: from smtp-mx-05.ti.local ([192.168.220.24]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:47:36 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-01.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.164]) by smtp-mx-05.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:13:29 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191164.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 17:11:21 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D6923B126A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:12:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from dirk.holoweb.net (dirk2.holoweb.net [216.94.134.20]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F553B124A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dirk.holoweb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A88996A42A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:13:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Liam R. E. Quin" To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" In-Reply-To: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: W3C Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:08:42 -0400 Message-Id: <1089824922.5593.12.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90-3mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2004 17:13:29.0588 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2177B40:01C469C5] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:27:03 -0000 On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 17:42 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several > layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going > to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 > and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user > choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. > It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other > than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the > geometry is generally described in X server geometry. You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, as you could "program" them independently of the application) Liam _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Thu Jul 15 12:47:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5453B0B81; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6B580F68; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F6B535.4090303@pochta.ru> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "" Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in, gnome-control-center References: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.2.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:47:55 -0000 > A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is > the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. Well, it is not exactly up to gnome - all this data comes from X server. Sure, we can submit patches to xorg and xfree - but we cannot count on them in foreseeble future. Also, lengthy textual description sometimes is more confusing than just a glance onto the image. > You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Cool! I will work on it one gtkgl makes its way into the gnome libs:) > Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. AFAIK xkeycaps does not use xkb geometry, does it? The "beauty" of our image is mostly limited by that info. > Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours > and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can > work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in > the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and > perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. True, "test mode" is another solution to a problem. But it is actually not far from the solution of my friend - just open the text editor and press evey key twice (to say the truth, I see no difference other than ability to test safely special keys by grabbing the entire keyboard input). IMHO this solution is less usable. > (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a > toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input > to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. > It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, > as you could "program" them independently of the application) By any chance, don't you remember the name of the app? Just to have a look, you know. So, summing things up, the only viable solution so far is to use GtkExtender, putting it under the notebook. Are there other viable solutions? Sergey From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 15 18:10:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABAAE3B13E8; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6FMAYe1002958; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:34 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6FMAYa11316; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:34 -0400 Received: from [172.16.64.218] (dhcp64-218.boston.redhat.com [172.16.64.218]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6FMA0k9023978; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:00 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:38 -0400 Message-Id: <1089929438.3244.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 (1.5.9.1-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of gpdf on Friday, July 16th at 17:00 UTC X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:10:34 -0000 Just like the subject says. Sorry for the somewhat late notice, but Martin and I finally agreed on a time ;-) What's the review going to be? Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look at where gpdf is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with gpdf so far. Where will it be? We'll be on irc.gimp.net #ui-review at 17:00 UTC (1pm Boston time) How long will it take? The review shouldn't take too long, everyone is welcome to join. Where can I get more information on ui-reviews? http://usability.gnome.org/ui-review/ Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From joturner@vt.edu Sun Jul 18 22:52:10 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from lennier.cc.vt.edu (lennier.cc.vt.edu [198.82.162.213]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85EE63B0E84 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from steiner.cc.vt.edu (IDENT:mirapoint@evil-steiner [10.1.1.14]) by lennier.cc.vt.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6J2faLi243486 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.2.1.124] (199-3-136-10.rs-brn-apthts.blacksburg.ntc-com.net [199.3.136.10]) by steiner.cc.vt.edu (MOS 3.4.8-GR) with ESMTP id BEG06083 (AUTH joturner); Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Jonathan Turner To: Gnome Usability List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:39:58 -0500 Message-Id: <1090208398.25373.8.camel@wheatbeard.homenetwork> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] GNOME 2.6 Usability Review with User Study X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 02:52:10 -0000 For those of you who are interested. I've posted a GNOME 2.6 usability review with fairly detailed user testing. You can read it here: http://www.userinstinct.com/viewpost.php?postid=gnome26review Jonathan From bclark@redhat.com Mon Jul 19 01:26:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A9C3B08A0; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6J5QJe1002112; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:19 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6J5QJa14657; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:19 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.118] (vpn64-22.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.22]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6J5PiMW007155; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:25:44 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1090214781.4489.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of gpdf Summary X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 05:26:20 -0000 The weekend came fast and has me sending this a little late, but it's here none the less. A short summary of the ui-review of gpdf for those who weren't there and those who were. Thanks to everyone involved, we had a really successful review session. Areas of change: General Page fit as a settings that is kept in GConf Outline Page View Layout and thumbnailing Navigation of pages Fullscreen Mode Navigation of fullscreen pages Exit button Zoom controls Viewing PDFs generated by OO.o and some others Martin has probably already made blazing progress on this - thanks to Owen here as well. For a detailed outline head over to: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147869 Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From Vidar@CoreTrek.com Mon Jul 19 07:43:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from voyager.coretrek.no (voyager.coretrek.no [212.33.142.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2549B3B0F44 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by voyager.coretrek.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9349A892D; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:43:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.0.0.251] (wormhole.coretrek.no [212.33.142.10]) by voyager.coretrek.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1529CA892C; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:43:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40FBB3BD.9020903@CoreTrek.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:42:53 +0200 From: Vidar Braut Haarr Organization: CoreTrek A/S User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.1 (X11/20040715) X-Accept-Language: nn, no, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Sampson Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> In-Reply-To: X-Mor-di: yes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 (CoreTrek patch 1) Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:43:43 -0000 >>Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying >>instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move >>is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move >>here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be >>used to force a move in this case. I vote for "Move" as the default action, as that is the most natural thing to do with a real, physical, file. You don't copy it by dragging it from one "folder" to another - you move it. > I'd be curious to hear why it's better for Nautilus to behave > differently when dragging between filesystems; I would have assumed > that consistent behaviour would have been more useful, particularly > given that it's really not obvious when two folders are actually on > different filesystems. What's wrong with having Nautilus always move > when dragging with no modifiers held down, and always copy when > dragging with Shift held down (or vica versa)? I completely agree. As bandwith limits approach levels where local vs. remote/LAN storage has little effect on speed, I think we'll see more and more people getting small computers around their house, and a central storage. Computers for everything. Instead of the way it is now, where people buy home hifi-sets that can broadcast the signal to another reciever in your kitchen, and instead of having TVs and radios all over, people will just have 1 computer in each room with a variably large LCD display. Now I'm blabbering again :) In any case, the above scenario - coupled with "internet2" - tells me that the "remote" sense has already been, and will be further in the future, abstracted away from the user. So why not in Nautilus ? Just my 2 NOK. And now for my coffee. -- Vidar Braut Haarr "Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN." From mnews22@wp.pl Mon Jul 19 08:34:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp.wp.pl (smtp.wp.pl [212.77.101.160]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B853B0F4F for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (wp-smtpd smtp.wp.pl 8587 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 14:34:31 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO megumi) (mnews22@[195.116.35.55]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp.wp.pl (WP-SMTPD) with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP for ; 19 Jul 2004 14:34:31 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: Maciej Katafiasz To: Vidar Braut Haarr In-Reply-To: <40FBB3BD.9020903@CoreTrek.com> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> <40FBB3BD.9020903@CoreTrek.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Message-Id: <1090240646.28006.1143.camel@megumi> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:37:27 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-WP-AV: skaner antywirusowy poczty Wirtualnej Polski S. A. X-WP-AS1: NOSPAM Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-WP-AS3: NOSPAM X-WP-SPAM: NO Cc: usability@gnome.org, Adam Sampson X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:34:38 -0000 W liście z pon, 19-07-2004, godz. 13:42, Vidar Braut Haarr pisze: > >>Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying > >>instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move > >>is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move > >>here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be > >>used to force a move in this case. > > I vote for "Move" as the default action, as that is the most natural > thing to do with a real, physical, file. You don't copy it by dragging > it from one "folder" to another - you move it. Well, I can see a reason for having default action dependant on whether it's the same or different partition. That's because reverting move in "same" case is cheap, while in "different" it's not (you have to copy whole file back again). But I agree, Shift should definitely work as modifier, it's counter-HIGish for it not to (and annoying, too :) Cheers, Maciej -- "Tautologizm to coś tautologicznego" Maciej Katafiasz http://mathrick.blog.pl From aes@gnome.org Tue Jul 20 14:50:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk (pythagoras.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.140]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD903B0ED2 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.23.23.154] (helo=[192.168.0.6]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Bmzh0-0000Mo-3Z for usability@gnome.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:50:22 +0000 From: Andrew Sobala To: usability@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090349436.4734.128.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:50:36 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [212.23.23.154] Subject: [Usability] Is Suzanna Smith still involved with GNOME? X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:50:35 -0000 Hi, I'm trying to find out * If suzanna.smith@sun.com is still involved in gnome usability (her mail bounces), and * If so, what's a working e-mail address for her? Thanks, Andrew From Nancy.Frishberg@Sun.COM Tue Jul 20 15:02:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4486F3B0A5E; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.17.57]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6KJ29J6012708; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sun.COM (yemanja.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.83.63]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.13.0+Sun/8.13.0) with ESMTP id i6KJ4EgI967287; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <40FD6C30.2050104@Sun.COM> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:02:08 -0700 From: Nancy Frishberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20040414 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sobala Subject: Re: [Usability] Is Suzanna Smith still involved with GNOME? References: <1090349436.4734.128.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1090349436.4734.128.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Nancy.Frishberg@Sun.COM List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:02:12 -0000 She has left Sun, and I believe open source usability, for a position as a full-time visual designer with another organization. -- Nancy Andrew Sobala wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to find out > > * If suzanna.smith@sun.com is still involved in gnome usability (her > mail bounces), and > * If so, what's a working e-mail address for her? > > Thanks, > > Andrew -- Nancy Frishberg User Centered Software Design Sun Microsystems +1.650.786.0409 From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 22 00:23:04 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF803B0964; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4N4e1024511; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:04 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6M4N4a30883; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:04 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (vpn64-1.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.1]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4MRQn025451; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:22:27 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:09 -0400 Message-Id: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of ggv on Friday, July 16th at 19:00 UTC X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:23:05 -0000 Just like the subject says. Sorry for the somewhat late notice, this one is totally my fault. Jaka has been back from his sailing trip for a while now. What's the review going to be? Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look at where ggv is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with ggv so far. Where will it be? We'll be on irc.gimp.net #ui-review at 19:00 UTC (2pm Boston time) How long will it take? The review shouldn't take too long, everyone is welcome to join. Where can I get more information on ui-reviews? http://usability.gnome.org/ui-review/ Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From jdub@waugh.id.au Thu Jul 22 00:32:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.syd.swiftdsl.com.au (mail.syd.swiftdsl.com.au [202.154.83.58]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DDFE83B086E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31639 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2004 04:32:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO home.waugh.id.au) (218.214.67.227) by mail.syd.swiftdsl.com.au with SMTP; 22 Jul 2004 04:32:42 -0000 Received: from willow.home.waugh.id.au (willow.home [192.168.10.9]) by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D51E8D15; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:39 +1000 (EST) Received: by willow.home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8988669C8C; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:21 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:20 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Subject: Re: [Usability] UI-Review of ggv on Friday, July 16th at 19:00 UTC Message-ID: <20040722043220.GG6224@willow.home.waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel References: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.6 ppc Reply-By: Sun Jul 25 14:30:52 EST 2004 X-Uptime: 14:30:52 up 22 days, 11:24, 6 users, load average: 1.38, 1.50, 1.25 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i Cc: X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:32:44 -0000 > What's the review going to be? > > Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look > at where ggv is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with > ggv so far. Can we get the merging of ggv, gpdf and eog (ala Apple's "Preview", which is used for print previews, document/image viewing, etc) back on the agenda, perhaps for the next release? :-) There was some discussion about having a united frontend last year, would be great to find out where this is at. Thanks, - Jeff -- OSCON 2004: Portland OR, USA http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ "Socks for the foot menu!" - Liam Quin From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 22 00:35:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A193B079E; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4ZGe1026596; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:16 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6M4ZGa00384; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:16 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (vpn64-1.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.1]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4YdXM032394; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:34:39 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:22 -0400 Message-Id: <1090470922.3676.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of control-center on Friday, July 24th at 1500 UTC X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:35:17 -0000 Just like the subject says. What's the review going to be on? Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look at where the control-center is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with control-center so far. Where will it be? We'll be on irc.gimp.net #ui-review at 1500 UTC (11am Boston time) How long will it take? The review shouldn't take too long (1 hour - 2 hours max), everyone is welcome to join. Where can you get more information on ui-reviews? http://usability.gnome.org/ui-review/ Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 22 00:42:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CF33B0B1E; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4gOe1027887; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:24 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6M4gOa01187; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:24 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (vpn64-1.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.1]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4flHl003794; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:41:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Usability] UI-Review of ggv on Friday, July 16th at 19:00 UTC From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel In-Reply-To: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:29 -0400 Message-Id: <1090471349.5573.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:42:25 -0000 On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 00:23 -0400, Bryan Clark wrote: > Just like the subject says. Well actually it's on July 22nd (today). Sorry, I'm drunk... ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From daniele.levorato@infocamere.it Thu Jul 22 02:52:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from lxme02.infocamere.it (lxme02.infocamere.it [80.82.0.240]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6768B3B079E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 02:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxm02.icnet (lxm02.icnet [1.5.0.11]) by lxme02.infocamere.it (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6M6qNY7013525 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:23 +0200 Received: from lxm02.icnet (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6M6qIbJ016363 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:18 +0200 Received: from [1.6.64.213] (weipda064-213.icnet [1.6.64.213]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6M6qIL1016357 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:18 +0200 From: Daniele Levorato To: Gnome Usability List Content-Type: text/plain Organization: InfoCamere S.C.p.A Message-Id: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6-1mdk Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:23 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] File menu applet X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: daniele.levorato@infocamere.it List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:52:25 -0000 Hi All, Some time ago (well I think during gnome 1.4 release) there was a very helpfull applet... called "File Menu" applet or something similar. This applet allowed users to "quick browse" the filesystem like a menu where files are items and sub-directory are sub-menus. When you use Gnome as your "personal productivity instrument" at work, like me, with many-many-many windows opened and you have to quickly use a file or take a look at a directory content, that applet would be very usefull! Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a gnome-terminal and use that TAB-auto-completion feature and the "ls" command. This issue is obviously related to the usability, the way Gnome allows user to quikly interact with filesystems. ... However that applet is still available from the internet... Does someone succeded in installing that applet? ... I tried to compile it by myself (after downloading from the internet) but it seems too old to work with gnome2. Is there something similar or planned for the Gnome2 platform? In my opinion that would be very usefull... the "Open recent" sometimes comes in help but it's a different thing... just think that in KDE such a feature is present and I even used it many times with gnome 1.4. What do you think? Any suggestion? From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Thu Jul 22 08:31:44 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 53F123B072E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanczos.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 22 Jul 2004 13:31:43 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:31:41 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: Daniele Levorato Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:31:44 -0000 > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and you can turn on the tree view. There is a gconf key to turn off spatial Nautilus, I dont know it offhand (and I forget if there is preference for it in the GUI but I dont think there is). I'll have to leave your actual question for someone else to answer. - Alan H. From daniele.levorato@infocamere.it Thu Jul 22 09:06:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from lxme02.infocamere.it (lxme02.infocamere.it [80.82.0.240]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07F53B0C5B for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxm02.icnet (lxm02.icnet [1.5.0.11]) by lxme02.infocamere.it (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6MD61Yc004730; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:06:01 +0200 Received: from lxm02.icnet (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6MD5ubJ017319; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:05:56 +0200 Received: from [1.6.64.213] (weipda064-213.icnet [1.6.64.213]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6MD5uL1017314; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:05:56 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Daniele Levorato To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: InfoCamere S.C.p.A Message-Id: <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6-1mdk Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:06:02 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: daniele.levorato@infocamere.it List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:06:07 -0000 Thanks, however I know there's even a way even to start Nautilus in the old-style using a command line parameter. The problem is not new nautilus vs. old nautilus (I'm really using gnome 2.4 so I can't use spatial nautilus at all) but to find a more usable way (than the term-commands and than nautilus) to quickly browse filesystem... and this "way" should be accessible from menu or panel (the only desktop elements that can be always on top and directly accessible without iconifying all the other windows). I really can't find anything more usefull than a "file menu" applet from the gnome-panel or gnome-menu (like KDE does). On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 14:31, Alan Horkan wrote: > > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a > > You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if > you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and > you can turn on the tree view. > > There is a gconf key to turn off spatial Nautilus, I dont know it offhand > (and I forget if there is preference for it in the GUI but I dont think > there is). > > I'll have to leave your actual question for someone else to answer. > > - Alan H. From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Thu Jul 22 11:20:32 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 757FE3B07E3 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanczos.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 22 Jul 2004 16:20:27 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:20:27 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: "Adam D. Lopresto" Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:20:32 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (CDT) > From: Adam D. Lopresto > To: Alan Horkan > Cc: Daniele Levorato , > Gnome Usability List > Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet > > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Alan Horkan wrote: > > > > > > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > > > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > > > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > > > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a > > > > You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if > > you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and > > you can turn on the tree view. > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to behave. - Alan From mnews22@wp.pl Thu Jul 22 11:26:16 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp.wp.pl (smtp.wp.pl [212.77.101.160]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B663B07EE for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (wp-smtpd smtp.wp.pl 29906 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2004 17:26:14 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO megumi) (mnews22@[195.116.35.55]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp.wp.pl (WP-SMTPD) with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP for ; 22 Jul 2004 17:26:14 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Maciej Katafiasz To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Message-Id: <1090510143.2810.1.camel@megumi> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:29:03 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-WP-AV: skaner antywirusowy poczty Wirtualnej Polski S. A. X-WP-AS1: NOSPAM Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-WP-AS3: NOSPAM X-WP-SPAM: NO Cc: Gnome Usability List , "Adam D. Lopresto" X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:26:16 -0000 W liście z czw, 22-07-2004, godz. 17:20, Alan Horkan pisze: > > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. > > You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh > Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree > View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as > I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) > > I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a > tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to > behave. AFAIK, it's already somewhere on TODO list. It's really cool feature, and contributes to great classic finder usability. Cheers, Maciej -- "Tautologizm to coś tautologicznego" Maciej Katafiasz http://mathrick.blog.pl From uno@webworks.se Thu Jul 22 12:04:45 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ths.se (unknown [213.80.77.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5131B3B0B8D for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (as4-1-5.sp.m.bonet.se [194.236.103.230]) by ths.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B08E7407A; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:04:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:04:29 +0200 From: Uno Engborg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040619 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: daniele.levorato@infocamere.it Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> In-Reply-To: <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms070806050802040107000003" Cc: Gnome Usability List , Alan Horkan X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:04:45 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070806050802040107000003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniele Levorato wrote: >Thanks, >however I know there's even a way even to start Nautilus in the >old-style using a command line parameter. The problem is not new >nautilus vs. old nautilus (I'm really using gnome 2.4 so I can't use >spatial nautilus at all) but to find a more usable way (than the >term-commands and than nautilus) to quickly browse filesystem... and >this "way" should be accessible from menu or panel (the only desktop >elements that can be always on top and directly accessible without >iconifying all the other windows). >I really can't find anything more usefull than a "file menu" applet from >the gnome-panel or gnome-menu (like KDE does). > I agree, we need a simple way to navigate the file system. The spatial mode fit the needs of most everyday users that have their own files in their home directories. For system administraiotn annd other situations where you need deep folder structures it we need some way of quickly navigate to a different part of the file system. My suggestion is that we expand the functionality of the popup menu in the bottom left corner of spatial nautilus windows. Today the menu items consists of the directory hierarchy to /. Why not expand this so that it even contained the sibling direcories on in a submenu at each level. E.g: / /home>|/usr |/etc |/var |/opt But for this to work we would probably need a new type of popup menu. One that doesn't pop up the popup until the mouse is moved out on the arrow. That way the base element of the menu would be selectable on its own. 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Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [61.121.47.61] (ntnara027061.nara.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp [61.121.47.61])by mail503.nifty.com with ESMTP id i6MGdGer002571; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:39:16 +0900 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Ryan McDougall To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:45:58 +0900 Message-Id: <1090514758.2666.14.camel@SEMPUKI> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 (1.5.9.1-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome Usability List , "Adam D. Lopresto" X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:39:21 -0000 On Thu, 2004-22-07 at 16:20 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > > > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. > > You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh > Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree > View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as > I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) > > I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a > tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to > behave. > > - Alan IIRC Alex has stated that it was always his intention of providing more than two navigation modes, and mac style tree was on his list. Can't recall the email though, somewhere in the archives ... Cheers, Ryan From jamiemcc@blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jul 22 12:45:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17BF33B0D53 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [82.32.13.166] ([82.32.13.166]) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:45:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Jamie McCracken To: Ryan McDougall In-Reply-To: <1090514758.2666.14.camel@SEMPUKI> References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090514758.2666.14.camel@SEMPUKI> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090514721.2892.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:45:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jul 2004 16:45:28.0437 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B5A3250:01C4700B] Cc: Gnome Usability List , Alan Horkan , "Adam D. Lopresto" X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:45:11 -0000 On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 17:45, Ryan McDougall wrote: > On Thu, 2004-22-07 at 16:20 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > > > > > > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > > > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > > > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > > > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > > > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. > > > > You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh > > Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree > > View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as > > I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) > > > > I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a > > tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to > > behave. > > > > - Alan > > IIRC Alex has stated that it was always his intention of providing more > than two navigation modes, and mac style tree was on his list. > > Can't recall the email though, somewhere in the archives ... Yup I read somewhere that one of the developers was creating a new view that combines a tree view with a list view (IE exactly like Konquerors tree view). Of course the view can be in a spatial window and therefore you would get the same effect. I personally dont like the tree/list view combo but thats just my opinion - if it makes life easier for spatial users then what the heck! jamie. > > Cheers, > Ryan > > _______________________________________________ > Usability mailing list > Usability@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability > > From twanger@bluetwanger.de Fri Jul 23 05:15:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from web11.manitu.net (web11.manitu.net [217.11.48.111]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671673B0BBE; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [62.165.4.166] (dicaprio.akademie1.de [62.165.4.166]) (authenticated) by web11.manitu.net (8.10.2-SOL3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i6N9FKf02009; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:15:20 +0200 From: Markus Bertheau To: nautilus-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090574120.3241.15.camel@dicaprio.akademie1.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:15:20 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] nautilus behaviour when selected file is changed X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:15:28 -0000 Hi, I just observed the following behaviour in nautilus 2.4.0. I don't have a newer version to test with at work. I wonder if the behaviour I observed was done on purpose. If it was not done on purpose, do we want the current behaviour to happen or something else? (That's why I'm sending a copy to usability@). 0. have fam/gamin working 1. select a file 2. touch it from a shell or otherwise change it 3. observe how the file is unselected and the next file in the directory gets a frame around its name, but is not selected. Thanks -- Markus Bertheau From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Fri Jul 23 07:16:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-mx-03.ti.local (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F232F3B0FBF; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.105]) by smtp-mx-03.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:16:22 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:57:55 -0300 Received: from smtp-mx-01.ti.local ([192.168.220.20]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:32:26 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-05.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.168]) by smtp-mx-01.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:49:53 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191168.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 16:47:41 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ACF33B095B; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:49:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5453B0B81; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6B580F68; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F6B535.4090303@pochta.ru> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "" References: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.2.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in, gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2004 16:49:53.0295 (UTC) FILETIME=[C05411F0:01C46A8B] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:16:43 -0000 > A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is > the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. Well, it is not exactly up to gnome - all this data comes from X server. Sure, we can submit patches to xorg and xfree - but we cannot count on them in foreseeble future. Also, lengthy textual description sometimes is more confusing than just a glance onto the image. > You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Cool! I will work on it one gtkgl makes its way into the gnome libs:) > Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. AFAIK xkeycaps does not use xkb geometry, does it? The "beauty" of our image is mostly limited by that info. > Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours > and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can > work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in > the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and > perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. True, "test mode" is another solution to a problem. But it is actually not far from the solution of my friend - just open the text editor and press evey key twice (to say the truth, I see no difference other than ability to test safely special keys by grabbing the entire keyboard input). IMHO this solution is less usable. > (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a > toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input > to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. > It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, > as you could "program" them independently of the application) By any chance, don't you remember the name of the app? Just to have a look, you know. So, summing things up, the only viable solution so far is to use GtkExtender, putting it under the notebook. Are there other viable solutions? Sergey _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From adam@pubcrawler.org Thu Jul 22 10:55:47 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from postal.seas.wustl.edu (postal.seas.wustl.edu [128.252.21.102]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38ACA3B0D14 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clarion.cec.wustl.edu (clarion.cec.wustl.edu [128.252.21.3]) by postal.seas.wustl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6MEqCE28518; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:52:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (adam@localhost) by clarion.cec.wustl.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i6MEtghj021620; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: clarion.cec.wustl.edu: adam owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "Adam D. Lopresto" To: Alan Horkan Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, -7.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Report: -7.1/5.0 ---- Start SpamAssassin results -7.10 points, 5 required; * 0.0 -- Message-Id indicates a non-spam MUA (Pine) * -0.0 -- Has a valid-looking References header * -0.4 -- Has a X-Authentication-Warning header * -0.4 -- Has a In-Reply-To header * -0.5 -- BODY: Contains what looks like an email attribution * -5.4 -- BODY: Bayesian classifier says spam probability is 1 to 10% [score: 0.0647] * -0.4 -- BODY: Contains what looks like a quoted email text * 0.0 -- Reply with quoted text ---- End of SpamAssassin results X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 08:15:00 -0400 Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:55:47 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Alan Horkan wrote: > > > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a > > You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if > you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and > you can turn on the tree view. While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. (Also should have all the normal nautilus nifty stuff, like open folders being highlighted, middle double clicking a folder should open it and close the tree view, should be in the menu from any folder window, possibly should even have an interface to the bookmarks, etc). -- Adam Lopresto http://cec.wustl.edu/~adam/ Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject. From jrn5a@cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu Thu Jul 22 13:45:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu (guppy.mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.218]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457263B0DC8 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.143.22.8] (account jrn5a@cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu) by cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.1.8) with HTTP id 91453559 for usability@gnome.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:45:07 -0400 From: "Justin Ryan Nevitt" To: usability@gnome.org X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro WebUser Interface v.4.1.8 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:45:07 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 08:15:29 -0400 Subject: [Usability] sound as user interface aid X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:45:11 -0000 Ok so i had this idea...which is based on some work i've done/encountered with the auditory community but I don't know where I should go to start the project. I was thinking the KDE team or gnome team might be interested or i might start my own sourceforge project (though I've never managed a project there)...the intention is for it to be opensource and available to everyone: Proposal: Sound Localization Sound Layer Introduction It has been shown in many different studies that users are more efficient in a multi-task environment where sound is used to direct their attention. This is especially true in immersive environments such as airplane cockpits and so called ?information cockpits? (I know i should cite someone here). For example a pilot benefits greatly from hearing alerts, which seem to come from the object that needs attention. Similarly, there are business and home applications for this type of attention management. For instance an alert could direct you to the physical location of your mailbox when you have a new message or it could alert you to a window containing a rapidly climbing stock price. The idea: The idea for this project is to create a sound layer/plugin that brings sound localization type attention management to the everyday PC. This layer should be made to work on linux and windows machines and will be opensource. Implementation: The implementation of this idea should be fairly straightforward. At its simplest level the layer will take information about application or icon location and modify the panning of sound output to direct attention to particular areas of the desktop. The application should be no harder to write than a simple mixer (although it should be able to play sounds at different panning locations at the same time.) The program should also have a tiny memory footprint. Additional adjustable parameters: Intensity of panning Individual application settings People probably will not want their music to be localized Should be easy to turn on and off (tray icon possibly) Turn real time panning on and off If someone moves a window while it is creating sound will the panning move with it or will it reset only after the window is dropped? The bottom line is...this attention management stuff is nothing new. However, it has always been implemented on the application level and never as part of a sound layer or a interface plugin. From reinout@cs.vu.nl Sun Jul 25 17:48:50 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from flits.cs.vu.nl (flits.cs.vu.nl [192.31.231.65]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1283B106E for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 17:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flits.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #91) id m1BoqrO-0001wiC; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48 +0200 Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Gnome Usability List Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:48:51 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Uno Engborg wrote: > But for this to work we would probably need a new type of popup menu. > One that doesn't pop up the popup until the mouse is moved out on the > arrow. That way the base element of the menu would be selectable on > its own. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82162 regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 Against Software Patents in the EU - swpat.ffii.org From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:47:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FDE33B0E46 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m69so58639rne for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.75.57 with SMTP id x57mr97642rna; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:47:21 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:48:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7793B10DD for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so70853rnk for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.12.79 with SMTP id 79mr497684rnl; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:17 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:48:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.200]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD43C3B10D6 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so70861rnk for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.12.79 with SMTP id 79mr497780rnl; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:21 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:48:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA393B0A07 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so70858rnk for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.12.79 with SMTP id 79mr497753rnl; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:21 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From julo@altern.org Mon Jul 26 05:17:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60FF53B117A for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 05:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [213.36.36.149] (213.36.36.149) by mail.libertysurf.net (6.5.036) id 41048CB500067A2A for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:15:03 +0200 From: Julien Olivier To: Gnome Usability List Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:14:58 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:17:23 -0000 Hi Here are a few ideas I submitted to bugzilla.gnome.org (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131544) about Rhythmbox, but never got any comment. So I decided to forward them here, hoping that it could get more attention: Watching my friends use Rhythmbox on my computer, I noticed that the current search interface can be confusing in 2 common scenarii: 1st one: - You are looking for a song using the browser. - You set the artist/album but can't find the song in the (filtered) list - You then try using the search dialog In this scenario, the search will fail because the user forgot to reset the filters to all artists/all albums. I saw that happening a lot (always actually) when other people used rhythmbox. My proposition would be to automatically reset the artist/album filters when you perform a new search. But I guess some people wouldn't like it... So another solution would be to have the following UI: Search [ ] among |songs from [name of the artist]| |songs from [name of the album] | |all songs | 2nd one: - You are looking for a song named "Penny Lane" using the search field - You found your song and play it - You then click on an artist in the artist list (for example "Madonna") In this scenario, nothing appears in the song list because the user forgot to reset the search (by selecting "Penny Lane" and pressing DEL). And as Madonna never sang Penny Lane (AFAIK), nothing appears. My proposition would be simply blank the search field when changing the artist or the album filter. What do you think of those propositions ? -- Julien Olivier From jcs116@york.ac.uk Mon Jul 26 05:39:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk (pythagoras.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.140]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F5F3B08A5 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 05:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [82.68.105.97] (helo=slate.badgerhaus) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Bp1wo-0007lH-2G for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:06 +0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: John Spray To: Gnome Usability List In-Reply-To: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:39:00 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.105.97] X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:07 -0000 On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 10:14, Julien Olivier wrote: > Search [ ] among |songs from [name of the artist]| > |songs from [name of the album] | > |all songs | I'm not sure I understand how you're suggesting that interface be laid out onscreen. Is this to be an extra list box in the main window? > My proposition would be simply blank the search field when changing the > artist or the album filter. I completely understand the motivation for doing this: I've thought about it myself. However, I think it depends upon the idea that the user uses the search box primarily for searching the whole library. The current functionality of the search box includes searches limited by artist(s) or album(s): to blank the search box when selecting artists demands that the user specify first the artist, then the search. It's an arbitrary limitation on the user, and it's not obvious that that's going to happen. I agree that the search box presents UI problems. Here are a couple of ideas of my own: -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to manually clear the search box. -Change the functionality of the search box. Given that its primary function is for search the whole library (since in most cases a particular artist can be searched by eye), perhaps this should be made its only function? A longer label such as "Search the whole library", and when there's text in that box, disable the artist/album/genre lists and have the song list present results from the whole library. My second suggestion is clearly a sacrifice of functionality for clearer UI: its implementation would depends entirely on how severe people think the search box UI problems are. -- John Spray From julo@altern.org Mon Jul 26 08:57:39 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373663B0828 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [213.36.36.30] (213.36.36.30) by mail.libertysurf.net (6.5.036) id 4104E88000038137; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:57:34 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: Julien Olivier To: John Spray In-Reply-To: <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:57:34 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:57:39 -0000 On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 11:39, John Spray wrote: > On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 10:14, Julien Olivier wrote: > > Search [ ] among |songs from [name of the artist]| > > |songs from [name of the album] | > > |all songs | > I'm not sure I understand how you're suggesting that interface be laid > out onscreen. Is this to be an extra list box in the main window? > I was thinking of a 1-line select box, like the one next to "save to folder" in GNOME's files save dialog. But maybe a radio box would be better, even if it takes more room (the advantage being that you can see all the choices at the same time...). > I agree that the search box presents UI problems. Here are a couple of > ideas of my own: > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > manually clear the search box. > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... > -Change the functionality of the search box. Given that its primary > function is for search the whole library (since in most cases a > particular artist can be searched by eye), perhaps this should be made > its only function? A longer label such as "Search the whole library", > and when there's text in that box, disable the artist/album/genre lists > and have the song list present results from the whole library. > My second suggestion is clearly a sacrifice of functionality for clearer > UI: its implementation would depends entirely on how severe people think > the search box UI problems are. I wouldn't mind the loss of functionality that your proposition would induce, as I only use the search box to look for music in the whole collection. But I guess it could disturb other users... -- Julien Olivier From boris@alum.mit.edu Mon Jul 26 09:39:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39ACB3B068A for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Info: This message was accepted for relay by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net as the sender used SMTP authentication X-Trace: HwC5moIL0Cj6ICE04et8LdDWSqgyHedmjQmx+ZjAjGMIBpQOHKZ8Cw== Received: from dialup-4.156.99.4.dial1.boston1.level3.net ([4.156.99.4] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #7) id 1Bp5hE-0006ZP-00; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <446FD022-DF09-11D8-85D9-00306578F772@alum.mit.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Boris Goldowsky Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:50 -0400 To: John Spray X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:39:18 -0000 On Jul 26, 2004, at 5:39 AM, John Spray wrote: > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > manually clear the search box. I think that would be very helpful; the blank screen is quite uninformative. The annoyance of clearing the search box could be alleviated by providing a clear button so it only takes one click. The clear button should be available any time there's text in the search box; not just when there are no search results. I hate saying "let's do it just like this other OS", but as a user of both Gnome and Mac OS X, one thing I've grown to love about OS X is the search box that is used across applications: it is visually distinctive, so it doesn't even require a label, and it manages to contain controls for adjusting the scope of the search and a clear button, without taking up much extra space. (There's a screenshot at http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/finder/). It would be nice to think about this issue beyond rhythmbox, and establish some Gnome-wide consistency about how searches and their related controls are presented. Bng -- Boris Goldowsky From smoke@medien.akbild.ac.at Mon Jul 26 13:47:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from viefep16-int.chello.at (viefep16-int.chello.at [213.46.255.17]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9E03B0796 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [80.110.99.166] by viefep16-int.chello.at (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20040726174742.CPEF28397.viefep16-int.chello.at@[80.110.99.166]> for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:47:42 +0200 Received: from smoke by 80.110.99.166 with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1Bp9Ze-0000s7-00 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:47:42 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: markus hammer To: Gnome UI In-Reply-To: <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: sabotage communications Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:47:41 +0200 Message-Id: <1090864061.3241.1.camel@80.110.99.166> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Sender: markus hammer X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:47:47 -0000 Am Mon, den 26.07.2004 um 14:57 Uhr +0200 schrieb Julien Olivier: > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > > manually clear the search box. > > > > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found > no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... good idea, users need feedback on whats happening inside the computer, giving a blank Space with no feedback is not very user friendly... -- markus hammer hm@sabotage.at From menesis@chatsubo.lt Mon Jul 26 13:54:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from kauneta.net (net-253.kal.kalnieciai.lt [81.7.65.253]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFA43B0808 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.16.1.48] (helo=maumas) by kauneta.net with smtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Bp9eg-000B71-82; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:52:55 +0300 Received: by maumas (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:54:03 +0300 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: Gediminas Paulauskas To: Julien Olivier In-Reply-To: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:54:03 +0300 Message-Id: <1090864443.4408.21.camel@maumas> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:54:09 -0000 On Pr, 2004-07-26 at 11:14 +0200, Julien Olivier wrote: > Hi > > Here are a few ideas I submitted to bugzilla.gnome.org > (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131544) about Rhythmbox, but > never got any comment. So I decided to forward them here, hoping that it > could get more attention: In both cases one solution would help: If search field is used together with album/artist filters, display a small warning bar at the top of search results, saying: "You have entered search criteria while some filters were active. Search the whole library.", where "Search..." string is a link which unsets the filters and executes the search. In second case display similar warning with different text, and clear the search field when link is clicked. This way the behavior would not change at all, allow people to search the old way and also make it possible to quickly correct their mistake. Warning bar is used in Microsoft Outlook for various mail display options, Mozilla Thunderbird for junk mail, yet unreleased IE 6 in SP2 and Mozilla Firefox nightlies for blocked popups & installs. See http://www.neilturner.me.uk/2004/Jul/13/more_on_new_firefox_features.html section "Information bar" for screenshots. menesis From jrockway@gmail.com Wed Jul 28 22:54:08 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D933B0E49 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 22:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so243686rnk for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 19:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.78.51 with SMTP id a51mr99621rnb; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 19:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <285fe7b10407281954330235f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:54:04 -0500 From: Jonathan Rockway To: usability@gnome.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] suggestions for the nautilus cd creator "start" dialog X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:54:08 -0000 Hi there. I'm new to the list, but I'd like to get involved in the GNOME project (and Usability is my favorite topic). Anyway, I have two suggestions for the Nautilus CD Creator. Firstly, there is a distinct absence of a "Cancel" button. To cancel, one must click the close button that the WM provides. This seems a bit unclean (and unclear) to me. Secondly, it would be nice to show the capacity of the media to which you are recording. There are several cases: partially full multi-session CDs, DVDs, non-standard CDs (the new 1000MB ones?), and it is unclear to the user as to what the program is going to do. I put 3 gigs in the folder and expected an error after I clicked start due to my drive being a DVD drive. However, everything worked fine. Ideally I shouldn't have to guess about this; a used/free indicator would be nice. Have a good evening, everyone. -- Jonathan Rockway From duffy@rpi.edu Thu Jul 29 02:02:28 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ares.penguinhosting.net (ares.penguinhosting.net [205.231.149.48]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9042D3B08C2 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29216 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ares.penguinhosting.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (ares.penguinhosting.net) Received: from [66.92.67.39] (authenticated as maureen) by ares.penguinhosting.net (MessageWall 1.0.9-test2) with SMTP; 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn?= Duffy To: Gnome Usability List In-Reply-To: <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:01:32 -0400 Message-Id: <1091080892.2655.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 (1.5.91-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 14:57 +0200, Julien Olivier wrote: > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found > no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... This is a great idea. What do you think of taking it a step further and perhaps above the track listings where the search results appear, have a sentence telling you what you are currently viewing, ie: Search [walrus] Genre Artist Album [ ] [ The Beatles ] [ ] The following are tracks in your collection by the artist "The Beatles" that contain the term "walrus:" Track Title etc. [ "I am the Walrus" The Beatles ] When you are viewing all, it could just say "The following are all of the tracks in your collection:" Maybe overkill? I think it might make what you're actually looking at clearer (although I'm not sure how many users would want to take the time to read it? But -it's short enough that you can glance at it. It may be less of a cognitive load to read a sentence than to parse all of the selection boxes and come up with that sentence in your head if that makes sense.) -It also shouldn't take up that much space. -It may be a better solution than Julien's very good suggestion of having a drop-down so users could pick "search from album/artist/all" because users may get the impression that you couldn't search for example, for all songs by Phish in a "live music" genre, using two filters at the same time. I feel strongly that the functionality of the search box doesn't have to be impaired, especially because I feel that there are solutions for making the state of the track listing window clearer to the user to clear up the search box "no results" confusion. ~Máirín From liste@pimpzkru.de Thu Jul 29 02:07:06 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail-out.m-online.net (mail-out.m-online.net [212.18.0.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 723543B0734 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.m-online.net (svr14.m-online.net [192.168.3.144]) by svr8.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781CF52C60 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pimpzkru.dyndns.org (ppp-82-135-1-142.mnet-online.de [82.135.1.142]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A35EF4EB for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pimpzkru.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5B5CB6BC for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pimpzkru.dyndns.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vegaserver [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12532-05 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.169.18.2] (renatepc.pimpzkru [10.169.18.2]) (using SSLv3 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pimpzkru.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3263CB6BB for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: Sebastian Heinlein To: usability@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1090864061.3241.1.camel@80.110.99.166> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> <1090864061.3241.1.camel@80.110.99.166> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:28 +0200 Message-Id: <1091081188.22632.5.camel@renatepc.pimpzkru> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p9 (Debian) at the GeekWG X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 06:07:06 -0000 Am Montag, den 26.07.2004, 19:47 +0200 schrieb markus hammer: > Am Mon, den 26.07.2004 um 14:57 Uhr +0200 schrieb Julien Olivier: > > > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > > > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > > > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > > > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > > > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > > > manually clear the search box. > > > > > > > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found > > no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... > > good idea, users need feedback on whats happening inside the computer, > giving a blank Space with no feedback is not very user friendly... I am also interested in this discussion, since I work on the synaptic package manager and we thought about implementing such an instant search to provide a faster access to the large number of packages available in some distrus (there are nearly 15000 packages in Debian). Regards, Sebastian From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Thu Jul 29 11:57:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B52E3B1040 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:57:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-eris-2 ([129.156.85.26]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6TFvrin001776 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.eris-mail1.uk.sun.com by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0I1M00601EUNGS@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for usability@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:57:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from cdelab89.ireland.sun.com (cdelab89.Ireland.Sun.COM [129.156.226.189]) by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I1M002IWF0HTW@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:57:53 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:58:11 +0100 From: Calum Benson Subject: Re: [Usability] suggestions for the nautilus cd creator "start" dialog In-reply-to: <285fe7b10407281954330235f@mail.gmail.com> To: Jonathan Rockway Message-id: <1091116691.21153.45.camel@cdelab89.ireland.sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsytems Ireland Ltd. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <285fe7b10407281954330235f@mail.gmail.com> Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 15:57:57 -0000 On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 03:54, Jonathan Rockway wrote: > Anyway, I have two suggestions for the Nautilus CD Creator. Welcome aboard! For requests/fixes as concrete as these ones against existing products, it's probably better just to file them at bugzilla.gnome.org, cc'ing usability-maint@bugzilla.gnome.org and adding the usability keyword... this list is better for the more general arm-waving kind of stuff :) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From davyd@madeley.id.au Sat Jul 31 03:10:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au [203.56.14.38]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D636E3B1130 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 03:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pingu.cook.theducks.org (cook.theducks.org [203.22.197.49]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C125E1F8002 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:10:34 +0800 (WST) From: Davyd Madeley To: usability@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El" Message-Id: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Resent-From: Davyd Madeley Resent-To: usability@gnome.org Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:10:17 +0800 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 Resent-Message-Id: <20040731071034.C125E1F8002@oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au> Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:10:34 +0800 (WST) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:58:31 -0400 Subject: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 07:10:20 -0000 --=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I need some advice from the gurus who dwell here. 1) how should this dialog look in your eyes? http://davyd.angrygoats.net/images/battstat-applet-sample.png and 2) should I merge this patch? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D131322#c9 regards --d PS: please CC, not on list --=20 http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/ =20 PGP Fingerprint 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA --=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/pgp/ iD8DBQBBCwXjLt27T1GRbNoRAujVAKCq4xspy/CzhUg9BjRH8q0t9J4jgwCdG62/ yK748ws6prm3hOedqdGM+mk= =XYOU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El-- From stevelist@silverorange.com Sat Jul 31 10:20:00 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from nova.silverorange.com (nova.silverorange.com [198.167.161.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5683B1346 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (unknown [142.176.234.122]) by nova.silverorange.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EFE7C2496; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:19:57 -0300 (ADT) Message-ID: <410BAA8D.7010207@silverorange.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:19:57 -0300 From: Steven Garrity User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040519) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Davyd Madeley Subject: Re: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus References: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> In-Reply-To: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 14:20:00 -0000 Davyd Madeley wrote: > 1) how should this dialog look in your eyes? > http://davyd.angrygoats.net/images/battstat-applet-sample.png Not a whole lot different than it does now. However, I think it should have a primary header message, with a more detail message below, as in explained and shown in example in this section of the Human Interface Guidelines: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/windows-alert.html#alert-text The strong (bold) heading will follow the HIG, and make the dialog easier to 'scan' and quickly recognize. Thanks, Steven Garrity From reinout@cs.vu.nl Sat Jul 31 11:25:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from flits.cs.vu.nl (flits.cs.vu.nl [192.31.231.65]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA153B0789 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flits.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #95) id m1BqvkC-0001vdC; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:25 +0200 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:25:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Davyd Madeley Subject: Re: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus In-Reply-To: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> Message-ID: References: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:25:57 -0000 On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Davyd Madeley wrote: > 1) how should this dialog look in your eyes? In addition to what Steven already said: the alert should probably use the stock information icon (light bulb). Furthermore the string '(0%, charged)' looks a bit cryptic. 'Charged' seems to indicate the opposite of what the message is warning against. It might as well be omitted. > should I merge this patch? > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131322#c9 Given the importance of the warning I'm inclined to say yes, provided that interaction with other windows isn't prohibited (i.e. don't make it system modal). good luck, -- Reinout van Schouwen Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 - wie helpt me aan een nieuwe kamer in/rond Amsterdam? - From reinout@cs.vu.nl Sat Jul 31 15:19:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from flits.cs.vu.nl (flits.cs.vu.nl [192.31.231.65]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DFC13B07E1 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flits.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #95) id m1BqzO6-0001vdC; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:19 +0200 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:19:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Davyd Madeley Subject: Re: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus In-Reply-To: <1091287861.2184.54.camel@pingu> Message-ID: References: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> <1091287861.2184.54.camel@pingu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 19:19:23 -0000 On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Davyd Madeley wrote: > My apologies for the string '0% charged', this is simply an effect of > what I did to simulate the dialog, normally it would say something like > (10%, 0:24 remaining) or something like that. In that case, I would suggest just '24 minutes remaining'. It's not clear offhand whether 0:24 means 24 seconds or 24 minutes... regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 - wie helpt me aan een nieuwe kamer in/rond Amsterdam? - From damianhaase01@yahoo.com Thu Jul 1 11:14:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.169.227]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 656693B0C39 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 11:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.3.79.2?) (damianhaase01@216.115.180.7 with login) by smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 15:13:17 -0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] desktop entry names, generic? From: Damian Haase To: usability@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1088693671.10252.32.camel@trout> References: <20040630160138.F05743B0F28@menubar.gnome.org> <1088693671.10252.32.camel@trout> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr" Message-Id: <1088695069.10252.39.camel@trout> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 11:17:50 -0400 X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:14:07 -0000 --=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 12:01, Bryan Clark wrote: > Applications outside of the core desktop should brand themselves as > they are, however the core desktop applications should be branded as > GNOME and that brand is simply not having one. > > > > I don't think this kind of branding is helping people, while we are > proud of the applications that make up the GNOME Desktop, each > application that's included in the desktop becomes part of GNOME as it > is integrated. I view us kind of like the Borg, resistance is futile > and you will be assimilated. Another thing to consider is scanability. If there are four Music Players installed (granted, maybe not a common case), and they all follow the format "_____ Music Player" with the GNOME default leaving off the "_____", then the menu would look something like this: Another Music Player Gary's Music Player Music Player Slick Music Player The issue I see here is that by asking all GNOME app developers to follow the "____ Music Player" format, the only distiguishing characteristic in a list of like items is the "____", and the GNOME default, lacking that distinguishing characteristic, may get lost in the noise. There may be other ways to allow an application to display its "primary" status than by altering the menu name. Perhaps some visual distinction, such as a highlight color, or even bold text. Maybe position in the list. This is a good subject for small-scale testing. I could write up a little test plan. That is, unless this is a closed conversation. - Damian Haase --=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 12:01, Bryan Clark wrote:

Applications outside of the core desktop should brand themselves as 
they are, however the core desktop applications should be branded as 
GNOME and that brand is simply not having one.

<snip>

I don't think this kind of branding is helping people, while we are
proud of the applications that make up the GNOME Desktop, each
application that's included in the desktop becomes part of GNOME as it
is integrated.  I view us kind of like the Borg, resistance is futile
and you will be assimilated.

Another thing to consider is scanability. If there are four Music Players installed (granted, maybe not a common case), and they all follow the format "_____ Music Player" with the GNOME default leaving off the "_____", then the menu would look something like this:

  Another Music Player
  Gary's Music Player
  Music Player
  Slick Music Player

The issue I see here is that by asking all GNOME app developers to follow the "____ Music Player" format, the only distiguishing characteristic in a list of like items is the "____", and the GNOME default, lacking that distinguishing characteristic, may get lost in the noise.

There may be other ways to allow an application to display its "primary" status than by altering the menu name. Perhaps some visual distinction, such as a highlight color, or even bold text. Maybe position in the list.

This is a good subject for small-scale testing. I could write up a little test plan. That is, unless this is a closed conversation.

- Damian Haase --=-E1DEfAgSnCvQP1kumbYr-- From mightyquinn@charter.net Sat Jul 3 07:18:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mxsf12.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf12.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.212]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CB03B08AB for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mxip10.cluster1.charter.net (mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.140]) by mxsf12.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i63BKM5J019744 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:20:22 -0400 Received: from 24.247.247.83.bay.mi.chartermi.net (HELO sayuki) (24.247.247.83) by mxip10.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2004 07:18:29 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.81R,146,1083556800"; d="scan'208"; a="79328024:sNHT12480580" From: Dave Ahlswede To: usability@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:18:25 +0000 Message-Id: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: mightyquinn@letterboxes.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:18:29 -0000 After a little "usabilitily study" I conducted on myself, consisting of renaming and moving about a dozen files between partitions, I discovered a couple things that irked me about nautilus. First, I think the move to trash option on the menu is too close to the rename option.. I accidentally moved several files to the trash.. while a reversible action, it did break my train of thought. Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be used to force a move in this case. I thought it might be better to run this by people here before I bugged the nautilus folks about it. From azz@us-lot.org Sat Jul 3 07:44:19 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx5.kent.ac.uk (mx5.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.21.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856F63B0C67 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from myrtle.ukc.ac.uk ([129.12.3.176] ident=exim) by mx5.kent.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BgiwH-0000p2-He for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:13 +0100 Received: from swallow.ukc.ac.uk ([129.12.4.234] helo=cartman.at.fivegeeks.net ident=ats1) by myrtle.ukc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BgiwH-00052z-8D for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:13 +0100 Received: from azz by cartman.at.fivegeeks.net with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BgiwG-0007tl-19 for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:12 +0100 To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> From: Adam Sampson Organization: Things I did not know at first I learned by doing twice. Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:44:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> (Dave Ahlswede's message of "Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:18:25 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) XEmacs/21.4 (Security Through Obscurity, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: Adam Sampson X-UKC-Mail-System: No virus detected X-UKC-SpamCheck: X-UKC-MailScanner-From: azz@us-lot.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:44:19 -0000 Dave Ahlswede writes: > Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying > instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move > is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move > here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be > used to force a move in this case. This used to be inconsistent with the documentation -- I reported it as bug 128227, and it got fixed by changing the docs. I'd be curious to hear why it's better for Nautilus to behave differently when dragging between filesystems; I would have assumed that consistent behaviour would have been more useful, particularly given that it's really not obvious when two folders are actually on different filesystems. What's wrong with having Nautilus always move when dragging with no modifiers held down, and always copy when dragging with Shift held down (or vica versa)? -- Adam Sampson From jcs116@york.ac.uk Sat Jul 3 07:48:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk (pythagoras.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.140]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148DD3B08EB for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [82.68.105.97] (helo=slate.badgerhaus) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Bgj0c-0007su-Ps for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:48:42 +0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: John Spray To: usability@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1088855322.26219.13.camel@slate> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:48:42 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.105.97] X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:48:47 -0000 On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 12:18, Dave Ahlswede wrote: > the only way to get it to move is > to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move here" > from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be used to > force a move in this case. In the name of completeness, I'll mention that you can also button-2 drag to get the menu when you drop. John From kodis@papa.kodis.org Sat Jul 3 08:45:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A91DD3B06F5 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from papa.kodis.org (pcp02267821pcs.longhl01.md.comcast.net[68.50.98.85]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2004070312454901300jc286e>; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:45:50 +0000 Received: from papa.kodis.org (papa.kodis.org [127.0.0.1]) by papa.kodis.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i63CjmgZ003403 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:48 -0400 Received: (from kodis@localhost) by papa.kodis.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i63Cjmo8003400 for usability@gnome.org; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:48 -0400 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:45:48 -0400 From: John Kodis To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] desktop entry names, generic? Message-ID: <20040703124548.GA3339@papa.kodis.org> References: <20040630160138.F05743B0F28@menubar.gnome.org> <1088693671.10252.32.camel@trout> <1088695069.10252.39.camel@trout> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1088695069.10252.39.camel@trout> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:45:51 -0000 On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 11:17:50AM -0400, Damian Haase wrote: > Another thing to consider is scanability. If there are four Music > Players installed (granted, maybe not a common case), and they all > follow the format "_____ Music Player" with the GNOME default leaving > off the "_____", then the menu would look something like this: > > Another Music Player > Gary's Music Player > Music Player > Slick Music Player > > The issue I see here is that by asking all GNOME app developers to > follow the "____ Music Player" format, the only distiguishing > characteristic in a list of like items is the "____", and the GNOME > default, lacking that distinguishing characteristic, may get lost in > the noise. > > There may be other ways to allow an application to display its > "primary" status than by altering the menu name. Perhaps some visual > distinction, such as a highlight color, or even bold text. Maybe > position in the list. Putting "Music Player" first in the list would do it, although I'd prefer just supplying a distinguishing name for each. There was also a proposal at one time to solve this sort of problem by having the menu at the level above this one show "Music Player >". Clicking on this would start the default music player, but when the user clicked on/hovered over the little arrow on the right hand side, a submenu with Another, Slick, and Gary's Music Players would appear. That seemed like an elegant, intuitive, and flexible solution to me, but the idea never went anywhere for reasons that I no longer recall. -- John Kodis. From chris@gnome-de.org Sat Jul 3 16:01:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.bytecamp.net (mail.bytecamp.net [212.204.60.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 88EF03B06B4 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 70560 invoked by uid 88); 3 Jul 2004 20:01:09 -0000 Received: from pd9e9642b.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.123.111?) (chris%gnome-de.org@217.233.100.43) by mail.bytecamp.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2004 20:01:09 -0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: Christian Neumair To: mightyquinn@letterboxes.org In-Reply-To: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:01:37 +0200 Message-Id: <1088884897.18025.8.camel@widget> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 20:01:15 -0000 Am Samstag, den 03.07.2004, 11:18 +0000 schrieb Dave Ahlswede: > I think the move to trash option on the menu is too close to the > rename option.. I accidentally moved several files to the trash.. while > a reversible action, it did break my train of thought. Weird. There should be a separator between rename and move to trash. Maybe your nautilus version is broken or outdated. > Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying > instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move is > to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move here" > from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be used to > force a move in this case. The menu should pop up if you drag using the middle mouse button as well. But indeed you're right, shift should cause Nautilus to move the files, although it doesn't ATM. > I thought it might be better to run this by people here before I bugged > the nautilus folks about it. Feel free to bug 'em by filing a bug report :). Thanks for your efforts. regs, Chris From thorsten.seitz@web.de Sat Jul 3 18:35:26 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp06.web.de (smtp06.web.de [217.72.192.224]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6343B084A for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [217.236.148.202] (helo=pd9ec94ca.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) by smtp06.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (WEB.DE 4.101 #44) id 1Bgt6T-0007G5-00 for usability@gnome.org; Sun, 04 Jul 2004 00:35:25 +0200 From: Thorsten Seitz To: usability@gnome.org Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 00:35:08 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Sender: thorsten.seitz@web.de Subject: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: thorsten.seitz@web.de List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:35:26 -0000 Having upgraded to GNOME 2.6 I'm very happy with the spatial Nautilus and t= he=20 new Filechooser. Thanks to all involved! To round some corners I'd like to make some suggestions: 1. It would be nice to have the "Open Location" action not just available v= ia=20 Ctrl-L from a Nautilus window but from the Action menu in the panel, too. 2. The "Open Location" dialog should work like that of the Filechooser, i.e= =2E=20 it should offer completions in a drop down list, too. 3. Renaming the Home folder on the desktop should work on the Filechooser,= =20 too, i.e. the Home folder should appear with its new name in the bookmark=20 list and on the path button. (The new name should be used throughout GNOME,= =20 i.e. in the Application menu of the panel, too). 4. If (3) is not possible it should at least be possible to rename the Home= =20 folder with respect to the Filechooser, because in the German translation i= ts=20 name is "Pers=F6nlicher Ordner" which is rather long for the path button. 5. No drives should appear in the bookmark list of the Filechooser. Instead= =20 the Computer location should appear there to allow relatively quick access = to=20 all drives. The reason is that (a) not all drives in the list are mounted o= r=20 interesting (e.g. I have a CD-ROM, CD-Recorder, Floppy and two unmounted=20 drives (for backups); all these are used almost never when opening/saving=20 files but take up precious space in the bookmark list). 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in=20 Nautilus windows. What do you all think? =2DThorsten From mightyquinn@charter.net Sat Jul 3 19:27:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.217]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FC23B06FF for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 19:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mxip06.cluster1.charter.net (mxip06a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.136]) by mxsf17.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i63NTXs7002892 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 19:29:33 -0400 Received: from 24.247.247.83.bay.mi.chartermi.net (HELO sayuki) (24.247.247.83) by mxip06.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2004 19:27:50 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.81R,146,1083556800"; d="scan'208"; a="80895315:sNHT13011890" Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: Dave Ahlswede To: Christian Neumair In-Reply-To: <1088884897.18025.8.camel@widget> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> <1088884897.18025.8.camel@widget> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 19:27:48 -0400 Message-Id: <1088897268.21099.12.camel@sayuki> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: mightyquinn@letterboxes.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 23:27:51 -0000 On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 22:01 +0200, Christian Neumair wrote: > Am Samstag, den 03.07.2004, 11:18 +0000 schrieb Dave Ahlswede: > > I think the move to trash option on the menu is too close to the > > rename option.. I accidentally moved several files to the trash.. while > > a reversible action, it did break my train of thought. > > Weird. There should be a separator between rename and move to trash. > Maybe your nautilus version is broken or outdated. Actually, the separator bar is there, but at least with the LighthouseBlue GTK engine, it's about 1/3 of the width of an entry line. It's close enough that I still hit it instead of rename a couple times-- I'm not sure why it happened with this combo, and not elsewhere in the menu, though it may have something to do with the absence of a stock icon for rename by default, and icons in menu options seem to psychologically be an easier target to click. And actually, as I look around the menu a little more, my thoughts were to move it just above properties, but the division just above properties varies in size, so it might be harder to develop muscle-memory for it. I think in retrospect that this may be user error on my part and not a usability error in Nautilus. From reinout@cs.vu.nl Mon Jul 5 08:52:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from sloep115.cs.vu.nl (sloep115.cs.vu.nl [130.37.24.75]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA573B07F0 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 08:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sloep115.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #91) id m1BhSx4-000NchC; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:52 +0200 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:52:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Thorsten Seitz Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions In-Reply-To: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Message-ID: References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:52:09 -0000 On Sun, 4 Jul 2004, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > 1. It would be nice to have the "Open Location" action not just > available via Ctrl-L from a Nautilus window but from the Action > menu in the panel, too. Agreed, but it would be even better if there were an entry field on the panel where you could enter any network- or filesystem location. GNOME would take care that the right handler for the location is chosen. > 2. The "Open Location" dialog should work like that of the > Filechooser, i.e. it should offer completions in a drop down list, > too. Perhaps this could be nicely combined with Nautilus' Connect to Server dialog. See also http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D139105 > 3. Renaming the Home folder on the desktop should work on the > Filechooser, too, i.e. the Home folder should appear with its new IMHO the desktop should *be* the home folder, but this discussion has been closed, you can set the gconf key but it's not going to be default in the forseeable future. > name is "Pers=F6nlicher Ordner" which is rather long for the path button. Now *that's* interesting. At GUADEC I talked to people who were convinced that we (Dutch l10n team) were the only ones that translated 'Home' on GNOME that way. > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. Disagree. The filechooser is a very different beast than Nautilus. There would be no immediate feedback if you bookmarked a folder that way, and the user wouldn't have an easy way to know that those folders will end up in the filechooser bookmarks. > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > Nautilus windows. I do agree that the Locations should be extendable but I'm not sure this is the right way to do it. Have you filed RFE bugs for your suggestions? regards, --=20 Reinout van Schouwen=09=09=09Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl=09=09=09mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 =09Against Software Patents in the EU - swpat.ffii.org From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Mon Jul 5 14:12:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 72E923B0D5B for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 5 Jul 2004 19:12:56 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 19:12:49 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: Thorsten Seitz Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions In-Reply-To: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Message-ID: References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:12:58 -0000 > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > Nautilus windows. I think that is a great idea. I'm getting really annoyed at having all sorts of entirely seperate bookmarks in different places and needing to repeatedly add them (and it is just as bad in KDE, so if you mix an match GTK and Qt applications it adds to the madness). I doubt any applications could directly share the same bookmarks file applications really should include subfolder(s) with imported bookmarks so that in Nautilus i would have Bookmarks FileChooser Bookmarks Gthumb Bookmarks and similarly those applications would have a subfolder for Nautilus bookmarks. granted I have no clue how this might work in practice and I can see Epiphany being an especially difficult case but having to add the same bookmarks more than once is quite annoying. > What do you all think? Good ideas. - Alan From seguso.forever@tin.it Mon Jul 5 14:38:42 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from vsmtp4.tin.it (unknown [212.216.176.150]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA4E3B06EA for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.33] (82.51.115.214) by vsmtp4.tin.it (7.0.027) id 40ACC5B100B288B2 for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:38:37 +0200 From: Maurizio Colucci To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:39:13 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> In-Reply-To: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:38:42 -0000 Hello, here's my two pence: On Saturday 03 July 2004 15:35, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. 100 % agree > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > Nautilus windows. Disagree. I believe there should be a GLOBAL button on the gnome-panel, which opens the bookmark list. It would spare one click in some situation, and has no drawback over your solution, as far as I can see. PS: At the risk of repeating myself: I believe also a "recent locations" button should be in the gnome-panel. It works very well in my app: http://logicaldesktop.sourceforge.net (try it! It's easy, it's a python script). Mau From thorsten.seitz@web.de Mon Jul 5 16:29:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp08.web.de (smtp08.web.de [217.72.192.226]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545523B0A30 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [217.236.144.188] (helo=pd9ec90bc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) by smtp08.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (WEB.DE 4.101 #44) id 1Bha5l-00033F-00 for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:29:34 +0200 From: Thorsten Seitz To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 22:29:32 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> In-Reply-To: <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200407052229.32471.thorsten.seitz@web.de> Sender: thorsten.seitz@web.de X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: thorsten.seitz@web.de List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 20:29:38 -0000 On Tuesday 06 July 2004 05:39, Maurizio Colucci wrote: > On Saturday 03 July 2004 15:35, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > 6. It should be possible to bookmark folders from their Nautilus windows. > > 100 % agree > > > 7. Filesystem bookmarks should be accessible from the Locations menu in > > Nautilus windows. > > Disagree. I believe there should be a GLOBAL button on the gnome-panel, > which opens the bookmark list. It would spare one click in some situation, > and has no drawback over your solution, as far as I can see. Great idea! This button should include the standard Locations list, though. > PS: At the risk of repeating myself: I believe also a "recent locations" > button should be in the gnome-panel. It works very well in my app: That would be very nice, too! -Thorsten From seguso.forever@tin.it Mon Jul 5 18:33:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from vsmtp3.tin.it (vsmtp3alice.tin.it [212.216.176.143]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D6B33B0EC5 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 18:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.33] (82.51.115.214) by vsmtp3.tin.it (7.0.027) id 40CF29D700576161 for usability@gnome.org; Tue, 6 Jul 2004 00:33:42 +0200 From: Maurizio Colucci To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] spatial Nautilus, Filechooser: some suggestions Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 00:34:18 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407040035.08685.thorsten.seitz@web.de> <200407052039.13352.seguso.forever@tin.it> <200407052229.32471.thorsten.seitz@web.de> In-Reply-To: <200407052229.32471.thorsten.seitz@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200407060034.18902.seguso.forever@tin.it> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:33:43 -0000 On Monday 05 July 2004 13:29, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > Disagree. I believe there should be a GLOBAL button on the gnome-panel, > > which opens the bookmark list. =A0It would spare one click in some > > situation, and has no drawback over your solution, as far as I can see. > > Great idea! This button should include the standard Locations list, thoug= h. Thanks :-) However, a menu entry in nautilus would still be needed for who uses nautil= us=20 without the gnome-panel. From msuarezalvarez@arnet.com.ar Sat Jul 10 22:47:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp3.arnet.com.ar (smtp3.arnet.com.ar [200.45.191.14]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E9863B076E for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13315 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 02:45:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.0.3?) (200.45.96.152) by smtp3.arnet.com.ar with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 02:45:13 -0000 From: Mariano =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Su=E1rez-Alvarez?= To: GNOME Usability List Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh" Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:46:55 -0300 Message-Id: <1089514015.2762.40.camel@grothendieck.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9 Subject: [Usability] HIG dialogs X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 02:47:46 -0000 --=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Since the search function of our mailing lists is broken, and google does not give me anything useful, I'll take the risk of bringing this up:=20 Can some one point me to instructions on how to get the exterior borders of the buttons in the action area of a GtkDialog to be aligned with the borders of the rest of the dialog in a way that does not break when one changes the theme?=20 Glade allows you to set the corresponding style properties on the horizontal button box in a dialog, but these is not theme-change resistant. -- m --=20 Mariano Su=C3=A1rez-Alvarez http://www.gnome.org/~mariano --=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBA8KofEwEqMdgw70URAtM0AJ9962f8Zf4jUVq+THDGYGmUyA1i3gCeMehr IHxasnyyr2peTZepNT26fVs= =evUQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-OnQi7UdQN/9l7fW5SuOh-- From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Tue Jul 13 21:00:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ni-mail2.dna.utvinternet.net (ni-mail2.dna.utvinternet.net [194.46.8.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924B33B0A8A; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sputnik.localdomain (unverified [195.218.110.125]) by ni-mail2.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 3.1.302.0) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:00:53 +0100 Received: by sputnik.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 500) id B2F9B132FF3; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:02:15 +0100 (IST) From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" To: usability@gnome.org, gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Udaltsoft Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:02:15 +0100 Message-Id: <1089766935.17599.50.camel@sputnik> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 Cc: Subject: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:00:54 -0000 Hi all Yesterday I merged the branch which adds one extra tab to the keyboard preferences. The tab is "Layout preview". I realize that current solution is far from perfect usability-wise - it is there just to display the existence of such functionality. The rendering is somewhat ugly - but the main issue is that I do not have clear vision WHERE and HOW to display the preview. Should it be just separate window existing aside with the preferences window? Should it be modal popup dialog? Any comments/ideas are very welcome. The screenshots can be found here: http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv.png http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv2.png Regards, Sergey From bclark@redhat.com Tue Jul 13 23:31:47 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98983B0A90 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6E3Vle1027822 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:47 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6E3Vl019187 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:47 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.118] (vpn64-23.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.23]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6E3VEhx025365 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List In-Reply-To: <1089766935.17599.50.camel@sputnik> References: <1089766935.17599.50.camel@sputnik> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:52 -0400 Message-Id: <1089775912.3549.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 (1.5.9.1-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 03:31:48 -0000 Hi Sergey ~ On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 02:02 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > Yesterday I merged the branch which adds one extra tab to the keyboard > preferences. The tab is "Layout preview". I realize that current > solution is far from perfect usability-wise - it is there just to > display the existence of such functionality. The rendering is somewhat > ugly - but the main issue is that I do not have clear vision WHERE and > HOW to display the preview. Should it be just separate window existing > aside with the preferences window? Should it be modal popup dialog? Any > comments/ideas are very welcome. A new tab is probably not the way to go for this. Perhaps we can first construct a storyboard for how this system is used and who it is used by. Then we can try to model the best interaction after that. > The screenshots can be found here: > > http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv.png > http://www.freedesktop.org/~xklavier/gcckbpv2.png This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) Cheers, ~ Bryan From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 12:13:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21943B120C; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B756380F32; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:13:16 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:13:16 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:13:18 -0000 > I think the picture of the keyboard should be where it is. The > rendering needs a facelift, but I think it's in the right position. > Endless popups are just annoying. Well, for me extra window is annoying, true. But usability-wise showing and updating the popup on the tab 5 while the controls are on the tabs 2 and 3 - sounds really ugly (for example, it is not obvious at all that options on the tab 3 affect the layout as well as option on the tab 2). It is some kind of "driving blind". In the ideal world, person should be able look at the resulting layout at the same time as he/she changes the configuration. Sergey From sstephenson@gmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:26:01 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D5863B09B0 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:26:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d78so337409rnf for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.9.24 with SMTP id 24mr311481rni; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:25:41 -0400 From: Sam Stephenson To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" Subject: Re: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center In-Reply-To: <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:26:01 -0000 On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:13:16 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > > I think the picture of the keyboard should be where it is. The > > rendering needs a facelift, but I think it's in the right position. > > Endless popups are just annoying. > > Well, for me extra window is annoying, true. But usability-wise showing > and updating the popup on the tab 5 while the controls are on the tabs 2 > and 3 - sounds really ugly (for example, it is not obvious at all that > options on the tab 3 affect the layout as well as option on the tab 2). > It is some kind of "driving blind". In the ideal world, person should > be able look at the resulting layout at the same time as he/she changes > the configuration. What about a GtkExpander that contains the preview image positioned vertically in between the notebook and the bottom buttons? The dialog's height could grow and shrink as necessary. > Sergey Sam From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 12:42:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EC43B0C1B; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E2C80F32; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:35 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:42:37 -0000 > A new tab is probably not the way to go for this. Perhaps we can first > construct a storyboard for how this system is used and who it is used > by. Then we can try to model the best interaction after that. Well, the story is very simple (well, at least as I see it). First, this feature (like all the layouts configuration stuff) is only interesting for people using non-US layouts. Once such a user wants to use his national layout - in most cases, it has to choose which variant he/she wants to use - because most of layouts contain more than one variant. As one Ukrainian person said (translation from Russian): "For now, when I want to choose a suitable keyboard variant, I have to try all available variants and with each variant, press EVERY key TWICE (with and without Shift pressed)". FYI, currently there are 3 Russian variants in xorg distribution - and IIRC it is not the largest number for one country/language. So this preview screen allows to estimate visually whether the choosen layout and variant match the idea of the user of what they should be. Ideally, user should be able to see the layout selection widgets (tabs 2 and 3) and the preview - at the same time, simultaniously. So the "separate window" solution looks good from this POV - but the screen cluttering is my concern here. BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? > This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough > on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) Exactly. It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the geometry is generally described in X server geometry. Regards, Sergey From Glynn.Foster@Sun.COM Wed Jul 14 12:52:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32ECC3B0C17 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-eris-2 ([129.156.85.26]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6EGqaJ8026958 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.eris-mail1.uk.sun.com by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0I0U00J01PGKLA@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Glynn.Foster@Sun.COM) for usability@gnome.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:52:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from [10.0.1.4] (vpn-129-150-153-2.Aus.Sun.COM [129.150.153.2]) by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I0U007PSPJKWE@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:52:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 03:38:58 +1200 From: Glynn Foster Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center In-reply-to: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" Message-id: <1089560339.2638.27.camel@slipstream> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:52:38 -0000 Hey, > > This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough > > on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) > Exactly. It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other > than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the > geometry is generally described in X server geometry. So it almost feels that the keyboard layout should be part of the selection somehow ie. selecting a keyboard layout automatically updates the always visible keyboard preview, rather than manually having to click on a preview button to see the results of your selection. I guess I'm not convinced that an end user has any idea what the various keyboard layout descriptions mean and that pictures speak louder than words - ok, I'm slightly biased and narrow minded with a US layout. As to how you can present that in a user interface is another question. Glynn From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 13:04:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848783B0C4A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2DFF80F3F; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5670F.6050101@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Stephenson Subject: Re: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:04:29 -0000 > What about a GtkExpander that contains the preview image positioned > vertically in between the notebook and the bottom buttons? The > dialog's height could grow and shrink as necessary. Actually, this idea looks ok for me. The only potential is that if we put it OUTSIDE notebook - it will also be accessible from the tabs 1 and 4 which have nothing to do with layout. Sergey From liam@holoweb.net Wed Jul 14 13:12:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from dirk.holoweb.net (dirk2.holoweb.net [216.94.134.20]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F553B124A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dirk.holoweb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A88996A42A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center From: "Liam R. E. Quin" To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" In-Reply-To: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: W3C Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:08:42 -0400 Message-Id: <1089824922.5593.12.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90-3mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:12:38 -0000 On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 17:42 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several > layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going > to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 > and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user > choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. > It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other > than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the > geometry is generally described in X server geometry. You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, as you could "program" them independently of the application) Liam From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Wed Jul 14 15:16:36 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ni-mail3.dna.utvinternet.net (unknown [194.46.8.37]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2A23B12A1; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sputnik.localdomain (unverified [195.218.110.117]) by ni-mail3.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 3.1.302.0) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:16:36 +0100 Received: by sputnik.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 500) id 427A5132FF4; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:17:59 +0100 (IST) Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" To: Glynn Foster In-Reply-To: <1089560339.2638.27.camel@slipstream> References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> <1089560339.2638.27.camel@slipstream> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Udaltsoft Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:17:58 +0100 Message-Id: <1089832678.17599.54.camel@sputnik> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 19:16:36 -0000 > So it almost feels that the keyboard layout should be part of the > selection somehow ie. selecting a keyboard layout automatically updates Yeah, and it does now - it automatically updates. > the always visible keyboard preview, rather than manually having to > click on a preview button to see the results of your selection. I guess Sure. Even with the current design there is no special button - the update is automatic. But it is just in another tab:( > I'm not convinced that an end user has any idea what the various > keyboard layout descriptions mean and that pictures speak louder than > words - ok, I'm slightly biased and narrow minded with a US layout. Well, unfortunately some details of the layout are really better represented when they are shown. For Russian, it is punctuation characters which matters - their placement is very different in different variants so it is better to see the layout in order to find whether it is "yours" or not. Just "default" or "winkeys" gives little information on this subject. > As to how you can present that in a user interface is another question. Of course. Sergey From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Thu Jul 15 05:48:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-mx-03.ti.local (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 493A23B09C4; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.104]) by smtp-mx-03.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:48:31 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:48:26 -0300 Received: from mail-fe-01 ([192.168.220.33]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:30:03 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-05.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.168]) by mail-fe-01 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:04:38 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191168.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 17:02:29 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B733B0C36; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848783B0C4A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2DFF80F3F; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5670F.6050101@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:02:07 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Stephenson References: <20040714160042.6D2073B1232@menubar.gnome.org> <40F55B9C.5020604@pochta.ru> <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <11fb05510407140925594c4840@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Re: Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2004 17:04:38.0311 (UTC) FILETIME=[A56D0B70:01C469C4] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:48:52 -0000 > What about a GtkExpander that contains the preview image positioned > vertically in between the notebook and the bottom buttons? The > dialog's height could grow and shrink as necessary. Actually, this idea looks ok for me. The only potential is that if we put it OUTSIDE notebook - it will also be accessible from the tabs 1 and 4 which have nothing to do with layout. Sergey _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Thu Jul 15 06:40:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-mx-05.ti.local (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3227B3B068F; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.104]) by smtp-mx-05.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:39:52 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:39:51 -0300 Received: from mail-fe-02 ([192.168.220.43]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:18:46 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-03.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.166]) by mail-fe-02 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:42:52 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191166.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 16:40:44 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C887E3B1240; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:42:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EC43B0C1B; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E2C80F32; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:36 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:42:35 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: usability@gnome.org References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2004 16:42:52.0710 (UTC) FILETIME=[9B3A2460:01C469C1] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:40:11 -0000 > A new tab is probably not the way to go for this. Perhaps we can first > construct a storyboard for how this system is used and who it is used > by. Then we can try to model the best interaction after that. Well, the story is very simple (well, at least as I see it). First, this feature (like all the layouts configuration stuff) is only interesting for people using non-US layouts. Once such a user wants to use his national layout - in most cases, it has to choose which variant he/she wants to use - because most of layouts contain more than one variant. As one Ukrainian person said (translation from Russian): "For now, when I want to choose a suitable keyboard variant, I have to try all available variants and with each variant, press EVERY key TWICE (with and without Shift pressed)". FYI, currently there are 3 Russian variants in xorg distribution - and IIRC it is not the largest number for one country/language. So this preview screen allows to estimate visually whether the choosen layout and variant match the idea of the user of what they should be. Ideally, user should be able to see the layout selection widgets (tabs 2 and 3) and the preview - at the same time, simultaniously. So the "separate window" solution looks good from this POV - but the screen cluttering is my concern here. BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? > This is auto-generated rendering of the keyboard layout? A little tough > on the eyes, but pretty cool stuff. ;-) Exactly. It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the geometry is generally described in X server geometry. Regards, Sergey _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From liam@holoweb.net Thu Jul 15 07:27:02 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail-fe-02 (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FE13B0678; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.104]) by mail-fe-02 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:26:43 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:25:26 -0300 Received: from smtp-mx-05.ti.local ([192.168.220.24]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:47:36 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-01.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.164]) by smtp-mx-05.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:13:29 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191164.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 17:11:21 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D6923B126A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:12:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from dirk.holoweb.net (dirk2.holoweb.net [216.94.134.20]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F553B124A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dirk.holoweb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A88996A42A; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:13:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Liam R. E. Quin" To: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" In-Reply-To: <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> References: <20040714160123.C70103B1281@menubar.gnome.org> <40F5627B.4020606@pochta.ru> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: W3C Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:08:42 -0400 Message-Id: <1089824922.5593.12.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90-3mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2004 17:13:29.0588 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2177B40:01C469C5] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:27:03 -0000 On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 17:42 +0100, Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote: > BTW, this is not about variants only. Some countries even have several > layouts (well, this is for historical reasons, xkeyboard-config is going > to change this) - but for now, all existing X servers (up to xfree 4.4.0 > and xorg 6.7.0) provide SEVERAL US layouts. Which one should user > choose? How can he/she guess without spending time pressing each button? A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. > It needs some polishing - but we cannot improve it much (other > than smoothing edges, improve labels placement etc) - because the > geometry is generally described in X server geometry. You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, as you could "program" them independently of the application) Liam _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Thu Jul 15 12:47:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5453B0B81; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6B580F68; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F6B535.4090303@pochta.ru> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "" Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in, gnome-control-center References: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.2.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:47:55 -0000 > A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is > the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. Well, it is not exactly up to gnome - all this data comes from X server. Sure, we can submit patches to xorg and xfree - but we cannot count on them in foreseeble future. Also, lengthy textual description sometimes is more confusing than just a glance onto the image. > You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Cool! I will work on it one gtkgl makes its way into the gnome libs:) > Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. AFAIK xkeycaps does not use xkb geometry, does it? The "beauty" of our image is mostly limited by that info. > Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours > and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can > work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in > the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and > perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. True, "test mode" is another solution to a problem. But it is actually not far from the solution of my friend - just open the text editor and press evey key twice (to say the truth, I see no difference other than ability to test safely special keys by grabbing the entire keyboard input). IMHO this solution is less usable. > (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a > toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input > to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. > It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, > as you could "program" them independently of the application) By any chance, don't you remember the name of the app? Just to have a look, you know. So, summing things up, the only viable solution so far is to use GtkExtender, putting it under the notebook. Are there other viable solutions? Sergey From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 15 18:10:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABAAE3B13E8; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6FMAYe1002958; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:34 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6FMAYa11316; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:34 -0400 Received: from [172.16.64.218] (dhcp64-218.boston.redhat.com [172.16.64.218]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6FMA0k9023978; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:00 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:10:38 -0400 Message-Id: <1089929438.3244.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 (1.5.9.1-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of gpdf on Friday, July 16th at 17:00 UTC X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:10:34 -0000 Just like the subject says. Sorry for the somewhat late notice, but Martin and I finally agreed on a time ;-) What's the review going to be? Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look at where gpdf is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with gpdf so far. Where will it be? We'll be on irc.gimp.net #ui-review at 17:00 UTC (1pm Boston time) How long will it take? The review shouldn't take too long, everyone is welcome to join. Where can I get more information on ui-reviews? http://usability.gnome.org/ui-review/ Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From joturner@vt.edu Sun Jul 18 22:52:10 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from lennier.cc.vt.edu (lennier.cc.vt.edu [198.82.162.213]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85EE63B0E84 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from steiner.cc.vt.edu (IDENT:mirapoint@evil-steiner [10.1.1.14]) by lennier.cc.vt.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6J2faLi243486 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.2.1.124] (199-3-136-10.rs-brn-apthts.blacksburg.ntc-com.net [199.3.136.10]) by steiner.cc.vt.edu (MOS 3.4.8-GR) with ESMTP id BEG06083 (AUTH joturner); Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Jonathan Turner To: Gnome Usability List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:39:58 -0500 Message-Id: <1090208398.25373.8.camel@wheatbeard.homenetwork> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] GNOME 2.6 Usability Review with User Study X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 02:52:10 -0000 For those of you who are interested. I've posted a GNOME 2.6 usability review with fairly detailed user testing. You can read it here: http://www.userinstinct.com/viewpost.php?postid=gnome26review Jonathan From bclark@redhat.com Mon Jul 19 01:26:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A9C3B08A0; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6J5QJe1002112; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:19 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6J5QJa14657; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:19 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.118] (vpn64-22.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.22]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6J5PiMW007155; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:25:44 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:26:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1090214781.4489.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of gpdf Summary X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 05:26:20 -0000 The weekend came fast and has me sending this a little late, but it's here none the less. A short summary of the ui-review of gpdf for those who weren't there and those who were. Thanks to everyone involved, we had a really successful review session. Areas of change: General Page fit as a settings that is kept in GConf Outline Page View Layout and thumbnailing Navigation of pages Fullscreen Mode Navigation of fullscreen pages Exit button Zoom controls Viewing PDFs generated by OO.o and some others Martin has probably already made blazing progress on this - thanks to Owen here as well. For a detailed outline head over to: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147869 Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From Vidar@CoreTrek.com Mon Jul 19 07:43:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from voyager.coretrek.no (voyager.coretrek.no [212.33.142.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2549B3B0F44 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by voyager.coretrek.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9349A892D; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:43:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.0.0.251] (wormhole.coretrek.no [212.33.142.10]) by voyager.coretrek.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1529CA892C; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:43:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40FBB3BD.9020903@CoreTrek.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:42:53 +0200 From: Vidar Braut Haarr Organization: CoreTrek A/S User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.1 (X11/20040715) X-Accept-Language: nn, no, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Sampson Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> In-Reply-To: X-Mor-di: yes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 (CoreTrek patch 1) Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:43:43 -0000 >>Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying >>instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move >>is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move >>here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be >>used to force a move in this case. I vote for "Move" as the default action, as that is the most natural thing to do with a real, physical, file. You don't copy it by dragging it from one "folder" to another - you move it. > I'd be curious to hear why it's better for Nautilus to behave > differently when dragging between filesystems; I would have assumed > that consistent behaviour would have been more useful, particularly > given that it's really not obvious when two folders are actually on > different filesystems. What's wrong with having Nautilus always move > when dragging with no modifiers held down, and always copy when > dragging with Shift held down (or vica versa)? I completely agree. As bandwith limits approach levels where local vs. remote/LAN storage has little effect on speed, I think we'll see more and more people getting small computers around their house, and a central storage. Computers for everything. Instead of the way it is now, where people buy home hifi-sets that can broadcast the signal to another reciever in your kitchen, and instead of having TVs and radios all over, people will just have 1 computer in each room with a variably large LCD display. Now I'm blabbering again :) In any case, the above scenario - coupled with "internet2" - tells me that the "remote" sense has already been, and will be further in the future, abstracted away from the user. So why not in Nautilus ? Just my 2 NOK. And now for my coffee. -- Vidar Braut Haarr "Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN." From mnews22@wp.pl Mon Jul 19 08:34:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp.wp.pl (smtp.wp.pl [212.77.101.160]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B853B0F4F for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (wp-smtpd smtp.wp.pl 8587 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 14:34:31 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO megumi) (mnews22@[195.116.35.55]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp.wp.pl (WP-SMTPD) with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP for ; 19 Jul 2004 14:34:31 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] Placement of delete options in Right-click menu, and modifier key to force move? From: Maciej Katafiasz To: Vidar Braut Haarr In-Reply-To: <40FBB3BD.9020903@CoreTrek.com> References: <1088853505.23995.5.camel@sayuki> <40FBB3BD.9020903@CoreTrek.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Message-Id: <1090240646.28006.1143.camel@megumi> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:37:27 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-WP-AV: skaner antywirusowy poczty Wirtualnej Polski S. A. X-WP-AS1: NOSPAM Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-WP-AS3: NOSPAM X-WP-SPAM: NO Cc: usability@gnome.org, Adam Sampson X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:34:38 -0000 W liście z pon, 19-07-2004, godz. 13:42, Vidar Braut Haarr pisze: > >>Second, when moving files between partitions, it defaults to copying > >>instead of moving, which is fine, but the only way to get it to move > >>is to hold alt while releasing the drag-drop, and selecting "Move > >>here" from the popup menu. I'd like to suggest that the shift key be > >>used to force a move in this case. > > I vote for "Move" as the default action, as that is the most natural > thing to do with a real, physical, file. You don't copy it by dragging > it from one "folder" to another - you move it. Well, I can see a reason for having default action dependant on whether it's the same or different partition. That's because reverting move in "same" case is cheap, while in "different" it's not (you have to copy whole file back again). But I agree, Shift should definitely work as modifier, it's counter-HIGish for it not to (and annoying, too :) Cheers, Maciej -- "Tautologizm to coś tautologicznego" Maciej Katafiasz http://mathrick.blog.pl From aes@gnome.org Tue Jul 20 14:50:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk (pythagoras.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.140]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD903B0ED2 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.23.23.154] (helo=[192.168.0.6]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Bmzh0-0000Mo-3Z for usability@gnome.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:50:22 +0000 From: Andrew Sobala To: usability@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090349436.4734.128.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:50:36 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [212.23.23.154] Subject: [Usability] Is Suzanna Smith still involved with GNOME? X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:50:35 -0000 Hi, I'm trying to find out * If suzanna.smith@sun.com is still involved in gnome usability (her mail bounces), and * If so, what's a working e-mail address for her? Thanks, Andrew From Nancy.Frishberg@Sun.COM Tue Jul 20 15:02:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4486F3B0A5E; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.17.57]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6KJ29J6012708; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sun.COM (yemanja.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.83.63]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.13.0+Sun/8.13.0) with ESMTP id i6KJ4EgI967287; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <40FD6C30.2050104@Sun.COM> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:02:08 -0700 From: Nancy Frishberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20040414 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sobala Subject: Re: [Usability] Is Suzanna Smith still involved with GNOME? References: <1090349436.4734.128.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1090349436.4734.128.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Nancy.Frishberg@Sun.COM List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:02:12 -0000 She has left Sun, and I believe open source usability, for a position as a full-time visual designer with another organization. -- Nancy Andrew Sobala wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to find out > > * If suzanna.smith@sun.com is still involved in gnome usability (her > mail bounces), and > * If so, what's a working e-mail address for her? > > Thanks, > > Andrew -- Nancy Frishberg User Centered Software Design Sun Microsystems +1.650.786.0409 From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 22 00:23:04 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF803B0964; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4N4e1024511; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:04 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6M4N4a30883; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:04 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (vpn64-1.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.1]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4MRQn025451; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:22:27 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:23:09 -0400 Message-Id: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of ggv on Friday, July 16th at 19:00 UTC X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:23:05 -0000 Just like the subject says. Sorry for the somewhat late notice, this one is totally my fault. Jaka has been back from his sailing trip for a while now. What's the review going to be? Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look at where ggv is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with ggv so far. Where will it be? We'll be on irc.gimp.net #ui-review at 19:00 UTC (2pm Boston time) How long will it take? The review shouldn't take too long, everyone is welcome to join. Where can I get more information on ui-reviews? http://usability.gnome.org/ui-review/ Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From jdub@waugh.id.au Thu Jul 22 00:32:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.syd.swiftdsl.com.au (mail.syd.swiftdsl.com.au [202.154.83.58]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DDFE83B086E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31639 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2004 04:32:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO home.waugh.id.au) (218.214.67.227) by mail.syd.swiftdsl.com.au with SMTP; 22 Jul 2004 04:32:42 -0000 Received: from willow.home.waugh.id.au (willow.home [192.168.10.9]) by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D51E8D15; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:39 +1000 (EST) Received: by willow.home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8988669C8C; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:21 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:20 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Subject: Re: [Usability] UI-Review of ggv on Friday, July 16th at 19:00 UTC Message-ID: <20040722043220.GG6224@willow.home.waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel References: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.6 ppc Reply-By: Sun Jul 25 14:30:52 EST 2004 X-Uptime: 14:30:52 up 22 days, 11:24, 6 users, load average: 1.38, 1.50, 1.25 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i Cc: X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:32:44 -0000 > What's the review going to be? > > Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look > at where ggv is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with > ggv so far. Can we get the merging of ggv, gpdf and eog (ala Apple's "Preview", which is used for print previews, document/image viewing, etc) back on the agenda, perhaps for the next release? :-) There was some discussion about having a united frontend last year, would be great to find out where this is at. Thanks, - Jeff -- OSCON 2004: Portland OR, USA http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ "Socks for the foot menu!" - Liam Quin From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 22 00:35:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A193B079E; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4ZGe1026596; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:16 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6M4ZGa00384; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:16 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (vpn64-1.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.1]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4YdXM032394; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:34:39 -0400 From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:35:22 -0400 Message-Id: <1090470922.3676.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] UI-Review of control-center on Friday, July 24th at 1500 UTC X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:35:17 -0000 Just like the subject says. What's the review going to be on? Since we're getting late in the GNOME release season this will be a look at where the control-center is going in the future _as well_ as what's gone on with control-center so far. Where will it be? We'll be on irc.gimp.net #ui-review at 1500 UTC (11am Boston time) How long will it take? The review shouldn't take too long (1 hour - 2 hours max), everyone is welcome to join. Where can you get more information on ui-reviews? http://usability.gnome.org/ui-review/ Cheers, ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From bclark@redhat.com Thu Jul 22 00:42:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CF33B0B1E; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4gOe1027887; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:24 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6M4gOa01187; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:24 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (vpn64-1.boston.redhat.com [172.16.66.1]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6M4flHl003794; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:41:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Usability] UI-Review of ggv on Friday, July 16th at 19:00 UTC From: Bryan Clark To: Gnome Usability List , GNOME Desktop Devel In-Reply-To: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1090470189.3676.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:29 -0400 Message-Id: <1090471349.5573.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 (1.5.90-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:42:25 -0000 On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 00:23 -0400, Bryan Clark wrote: > Just like the subject says. Well actually it's on July 22nd (today). Sorry, I'm drunk... ~ Bryan -- Bryan Clark Red Hat Desktop Design Ninja From daniele.levorato@infocamere.it Thu Jul 22 02:52:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from lxme02.infocamere.it (lxme02.infocamere.it [80.82.0.240]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6768B3B079E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 02:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxm02.icnet (lxm02.icnet [1.5.0.11]) by lxme02.infocamere.it (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6M6qNY7013525 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:23 +0200 Received: from lxm02.icnet (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6M6qIbJ016363 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:18 +0200 Received: from [1.6.64.213] (weipda064-213.icnet [1.6.64.213]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6M6qIL1016357 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:18 +0200 From: Daniele Levorato To: Gnome Usability List Content-Type: text/plain Organization: InfoCamere S.C.p.A Message-Id: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6-1mdk Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:52:23 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] File menu applet X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: daniele.levorato@infocamere.it List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:52:25 -0000 Hi All, Some time ago (well I think during gnome 1.4 release) there was a very helpfull applet... called "File Menu" applet or something similar. This applet allowed users to "quick browse" the filesystem like a menu where files are items and sub-directory are sub-menus. When you use Gnome as your "personal productivity instrument" at work, like me, with many-many-many windows opened and you have to quickly use a file or take a look at a directory content, that applet would be very usefull! Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a gnome-terminal and use that TAB-auto-completion feature and the "ls" command. This issue is obviously related to the usability, the way Gnome allows user to quikly interact with filesystems. ... However that applet is still available from the internet... Does someone succeded in installing that applet? ... I tried to compile it by myself (after downloading from the internet) but it seems too old to work with gnome2. Is there something similar or planned for the Gnome2 platform? In my opinion that would be very usefull... the "Open recent" sometimes comes in help but it's a different thing... just think that in KDE such a feature is present and I even used it many times with gnome 1.4. What do you think? Any suggestion? From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Thu Jul 22 08:31:44 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 53F123B072E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanczos.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 22 Jul 2004 13:31:43 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:31:41 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: Daniele Levorato Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:31:44 -0000 > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and you can turn on the tree view. There is a gconf key to turn off spatial Nautilus, I dont know it offhand (and I forget if there is preference for it in the GUI but I dont think there is). I'll have to leave your actual question for someone else to answer. - Alan H. From daniele.levorato@infocamere.it Thu Jul 22 09:06:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from lxme02.infocamere.it (lxme02.infocamere.it [80.82.0.240]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07F53B0C5B for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxm02.icnet (lxm02.icnet [1.5.0.11]) by lxme02.infocamere.it (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6MD61Yc004730; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:06:01 +0200 Received: from lxm02.icnet (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6MD5ubJ017319; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:05:56 +0200 Received: from [1.6.64.213] (weipda064-213.icnet [1.6.64.213]) by lxm02.icnet (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6MD5uL1017314; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:05:56 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Daniele Levorato To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: InfoCamere S.C.p.A Message-Id: <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6-1mdk Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:06:02 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: daniele.levorato@infocamere.it List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:06:07 -0000 Thanks, however I know there's even a way even to start Nautilus in the old-style using a command line parameter. The problem is not new nautilus vs. old nautilus (I'm really using gnome 2.4 so I can't use spatial nautilus at all) but to find a more usable way (than the term-commands and than nautilus) to quickly browse filesystem... and this "way" should be accessible from menu or panel (the only desktop elements that can be always on top and directly accessible without iconifying all the other windows). I really can't find anything more usefull than a "file menu" applet from the gnome-panel or gnome-menu (like KDE does). On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 14:31, Alan Horkan wrote: > > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a > > You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if > you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and > you can turn on the tree view. > > There is a gconf key to turn off spatial Nautilus, I dont know it offhand > (and I forget if there is preference for it in the GUI but I dont think > there is). > > I'll have to leave your actual question for someone else to answer. > > - Alan H. From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Thu Jul 22 11:20:32 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 757FE3B07E3 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanczos.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 22 Jul 2004 16:20:27 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:20:27 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: "Adam D. Lopresto" Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:20:32 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (CDT) > From: Adam D. Lopresto > To: Alan Horkan > Cc: Daniele Levorato , > Gnome Usability List > Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet > > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Alan Horkan wrote: > > > > > > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > > > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > > > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > > > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a > > > > You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if > > you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and > > you can turn on the tree view. > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to behave. - Alan From mnews22@wp.pl Thu Jul 22 11:26:16 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp.wp.pl (smtp.wp.pl [212.77.101.160]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B663B07EE for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (wp-smtpd smtp.wp.pl 29906 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2004 17:26:14 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO megumi) (mnews22@[195.116.35.55]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp.wp.pl (WP-SMTPD) with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP for ; 22 Jul 2004 17:26:14 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Maciej Katafiasz To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Message-Id: <1090510143.2810.1.camel@megumi> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:29:03 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-WP-AV: skaner antywirusowy poczty Wirtualnej Polski S. A. X-WP-AS1: NOSPAM Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-WP-AS3: NOSPAM X-WP-SPAM: NO Cc: Gnome Usability List , "Adam D. Lopresto" X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:26:16 -0000 W liście z czw, 22-07-2004, godz. 17:20, Alan Horkan pisze: > > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. > > You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh > Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree > View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as > I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) > > I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a > tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to > behave. AFAIK, it's already somewhere on TODO list. It's really cool feature, and contributes to great classic finder usability. Cheers, Maciej -- "Tautologizm to coś tautologicznego" Maciej Katafiasz http://mathrick.blog.pl From uno@webworks.se Thu Jul 22 12:04:45 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ths.se (unknown [213.80.77.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5131B3B0B8D for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (as4-1-5.sp.m.bonet.se [194.236.103.230]) by ths.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B08E7407A; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:04:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:04:29 +0200 From: Uno Engborg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040619 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: daniele.levorato@infocamere.it Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> In-Reply-To: <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms070806050802040107000003" Cc: Gnome Usability List , Alan Horkan X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:04:45 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070806050802040107000003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniele Levorato wrote: >Thanks, >however I know there's even a way even to start Nautilus in the >old-style using a command line parameter. The problem is not new >nautilus vs. old nautilus (I'm really using gnome 2.4 so I can't use >spatial nautilus at all) but to find a more usable way (than the >term-commands and than nautilus) to quickly browse filesystem... and >this "way" should be accessible from menu or panel (the only desktop >elements that can be always on top and directly accessible without >iconifying all the other windows). >I really can't find anything more usefull than a "file menu" applet from >the gnome-panel or gnome-menu (like KDE does). > I agree, we need a simple way to navigate the file system. The spatial mode fit the needs of most everyday users that have their own files in their home directories. For system administraiotn annd other situations where you need deep folder structures it we need some way of quickly navigate to a different part of the file system. My suggestion is that we expand the functionality of the popup menu in the bottom left corner of spatial nautilus windows. Today the menu items consists of the directory hierarchy to /. Why not expand this so that it even contained the sibling direcories on in a submenu at each level. E.g: / /home>|/usr |/etc |/var |/opt But for this to work we would probably need a new type of popup menu. One that doesn't pop up the popup until the mouse is moved out on the arrow. That way the base element of the menu would be selectable on its own. 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Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [61.121.47.61] (ntnara027061.nara.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp [61.121.47.61])by mail503.nifty.com with ESMTP id i6MGdGer002571; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:39:16 +0900 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Ryan McDougall To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:45:58 +0900 Message-Id: <1090514758.2666.14.camel@SEMPUKI> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.1 (1.5.9.1-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome Usability List , "Adam D. Lopresto" X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:39:21 -0000 On Thu, 2004-22-07 at 16:20 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > > > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. > > You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh > Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree > View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as > I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) > > I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a > tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to > behave. > > - Alan IIRC Alex has stated that it was always his intention of providing more than two navigation modes, and mac style tree was on his list. Can't recall the email though, somewhere in the archives ... Cheers, Ryan From jamiemcc@blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jul 22 12:45:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17BF33B0D53 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [82.32.13.166] ([82.32.13.166]) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:45:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet From: Jamie McCracken To: Ryan McDougall In-Reply-To: <1090514758.2666.14.camel@SEMPUKI> References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090514758.2666.14.camel@SEMPUKI> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090514721.2892.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:45:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jul 2004 16:45:28.0437 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B5A3250:01C4700B] Cc: Gnome Usability List , Alan Horkan , "Adam D. Lopresto" X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:45:11 -0000 On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 17:45, Ryan McDougall wrote: > On Thu, 2004-22-07 at 16:20 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > > > > > > While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able > > > to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a > > > separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on > > > folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the > > > advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. > > > > You are describing something differnt from the Tree View in the Macintosh > > Finder? (I think you are suggesting something else. Having a Tree > > View like the Finder would be neat but I'm not going to request it as > > I'm sure the developers have better things to do.) > > > > I'm not sure the developers would go for mixing the Spatial model with a > > tree view, they have seemed pretty clear on how they want Spatial to > > behave. > > > > - Alan > > IIRC Alex has stated that it was always his intention of providing more > than two navigation modes, and mac style tree was on his list. > > Can't recall the email though, somewhere in the archives ... Yup I read somewhere that one of the developers was creating a new view that combines a tree view with a list view (IE exactly like Konquerors tree view). Of course the view can be in a spatial window and therefore you would get the same effect. I personally dont like the tree/list view combo but thats just my opinion - if it makes life easier for spatial users then what the heck! jamie. > > Cheers, > Ryan > > _______________________________________________ > Usability mailing list > Usability@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability > > From twanger@bluetwanger.de Fri Jul 23 05:15:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from web11.manitu.net (web11.manitu.net [217.11.48.111]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671673B0BBE; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [62.165.4.166] (dicaprio.akademie1.de [62.165.4.166]) (authenticated) by web11.manitu.net (8.10.2-SOL3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i6N9FKf02009; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:15:20 +0200 From: Markus Bertheau To: nautilus-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090574120.3241.15.camel@dicaprio.akademie1.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:15:20 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Usability] nautilus behaviour when selected file is changed X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:15:28 -0000 Hi, I just observed the following behaviour in nautilus 2.4.0. I don't have a newer version to test with at work. I wonder if the behaviour I observed was done on purpose. If it was not done on purpose, do we want the current behaviour to happen or something else? (That's why I'm sending a copy to usability@). 0. have fam/gamin working 1. select a file 2. touch it from a shell or otherwise change it 3. observe how the file is unselected and the next file in the directory gets a frame around its name, but is not selected. Thanks -- Markus Bertheau From sergey_udaltsov@pochta.ru Fri Jul 23 07:16:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp-mx-03.ti.local (unknown [200.45.191.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F232F3B0FBF; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MSG-BE-02.ti.local ([192.168.220.105]) by smtp-mx-03.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:16:22 -0300 Received: from mail pickup service by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:57:55 -0300 Received: from smtp-mx-01.ti.local ([192.168.220.20]) by MSG-BE-02.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:32:26 -0300 Received: from qsmtp-mx-05.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.168]) by smtp-mx-01.ti.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:49:53 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO menubar.gnome.org) (12.107.209.248) by host191168.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 16:47:41 -0000 Received: from menubar.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ACF33B095B; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:49:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from cork.comnitel.com (cork.comnitel.com [193.95.176.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5453B0B81; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.90] (thereds.comnitel.com [192.168.1.90]) by cork.comnitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6B580F68; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <40F6B535.4090303@pochta.ru> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:47:49 +0100 From: "Sergey V. Udaltsov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "" References: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> In-Reply-To: <20040715160052.93F763B12E7@menubar.gnome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.2.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Usability] Keyboard layout preview in, gnome-control-center X-BeenThere: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-devel-list-bounces@gnome.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2004 16:49:53.0295 (UTC) FILETIME=[C05411F0:01C46A8B] Cc: gnome-devel-list@gnome.org, usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:16:43 -0000 > A text description would help -- e.g. the "US International" layout is > the same as the US one except that " ' and ` become accent keys. Well, it is not exactly up to gnome - all this data comes from X server. Sure, we can submit patches to xorg and xfree - but we cannot count on them in foreseeble future. Also, lengthy textual description sometimes is more confusing than just a glance onto the image. > You could use openGL and provide a perspective view :-) Cool! I will work on it one gtkgl makes its way into the gnome libs:) > Also compare jwz's xkeycaps program. AFAIK xkeycaps does not use xkb geometry, does it? The "beauty" of our image is mostly limited by that info. > Use of colour and shading, using the user's chosen theme colours > and fonts and sizes, maybe with a "test" mode where people can > work out which key on their keyboard corresponds to which key in > the X server's twisted brain, so needing a visual highlight and > perhaps a text input box. Integrating VOK might be interesting. True, "test mode" is another solution to a problem. But it is actually not far from the solution of my friend - just open the text editor and press evey key twice (to say the truth, I see no difference other than ability to test safely special keys by grabbing the entire keyboard input). IMHO this solution is less usable. > (Sun's OpenWindows used to have one in which each key was actually a > toolkit button, and you could keep it visible to provide input > to other windows, although there were confusing focus problems. > It was especially interesting with just the function keys visible, > as you could "program" them independently of the application) By any chance, don't you remember the name of the app? Just to have a look, you know. So, summing things up, the only viable solution so far is to use GtkExtender, putting it under the notebook. Are there other viable solutions? Sergey _______________________________________________ gnome-devel-list mailing list gnome-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-devel-list From adam@pubcrawler.org Thu Jul 22 10:55:47 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from postal.seas.wustl.edu (postal.seas.wustl.edu [128.252.21.102]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38ACA3B0D14 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clarion.cec.wustl.edu (clarion.cec.wustl.edu [128.252.21.3]) by postal.seas.wustl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6MEqCE28518; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:52:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (adam@localhost) by clarion.cec.wustl.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i6MEtghj021620; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: clarion.cec.wustl.edu: adam owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "Adam D. Lopresto" To: Alan Horkan Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, -7.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Report: -7.1/5.0 ---- Start SpamAssassin results -7.10 points, 5 required; * 0.0 -- Message-Id indicates a non-spam MUA (Pine) * -0.0 -- Has a valid-looking References header * -0.4 -- Has a X-Authentication-Warning header * -0.4 -- Has a In-Reply-To header * -0.5 -- BODY: Contains what looks like an email attribution * -5.4 -- BODY: Bayesian classifier says spam probability is 1 to 10% [score: 0.0647] * -0.4 -- BODY: Contains what looks like a quoted email text * 0.0 -- Reply with quoted text ---- End of SpamAssassin results X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 08:15:00 -0400 Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:55:47 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Alan Horkan wrote: > > > Some times (many times) Nautilus is too "heavy" for this operation (open > > it from home, start clicking around with file-preview, lot of graphics > > to redraw... just to locate a file... the tree is no longer available in > > Spatial-Nautilus)... so many times I found simplier to open a > > You should be able to right click on the Home icon on your desktop and if > you choose Browse rather than open you will get the old style Nautilus and > you can turn on the tree view. While we're (a little) on the topic, I really think it would be nice to be able to have a separate tree view without using the browser. That is, I'd like a separate window that has nothing but a directory tree, where double clicking on folders opens spatial windows to those folders. Then you get all the advantages of spatial mode, but still get the tree when you need it. (Also should have all the normal nautilus nifty stuff, like open folders being highlighted, middle double clicking a folder should open it and close the tree view, should be in the menu from any folder window, possibly should even have an interface to the bookmarks, etc). -- Adam Lopresto http://cec.wustl.edu/~adam/ Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject. From jrn5a@cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu Thu Jul 22 13:45:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu (guppy.mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.218]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457263B0DC8 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.143.22.8] (account jrn5a@cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu) by cgatepro-3.mail.virginia.edu (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.1.8) with HTTP id 91453559 for usability@gnome.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:45:07 -0400 From: "Justin Ryan Nevitt" To: usability@gnome.org X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro WebUser Interface v.4.1.8 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:45:07 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 08:15:29 -0400 Subject: [Usability] sound as user interface aid X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:45:11 -0000 Ok so i had this idea...which is based on some work i've done/encountered with the auditory community but I don't know where I should go to start the project. I was thinking the KDE team or gnome team might be interested or i might start my own sourceforge project (though I've never managed a project there)...the intention is for it to be opensource and available to everyone: Proposal: Sound Localization Sound Layer Introduction It has been shown in many different studies that users are more efficient in a multi-task environment where sound is used to direct their attention. This is especially true in immersive environments such as airplane cockpits and so called ?information cockpits? (I know i should cite someone here). For example a pilot benefits greatly from hearing alerts, which seem to come from the object that needs attention. Similarly, there are business and home applications for this type of attention management. For instance an alert could direct you to the physical location of your mailbox when you have a new message or it could alert you to a window containing a rapidly climbing stock price. The idea: The idea for this project is to create a sound layer/plugin that brings sound localization type attention management to the everyday PC. This layer should be made to work on linux and windows machines and will be opensource. Implementation: The implementation of this idea should be fairly straightforward. At its simplest level the layer will take information about application or icon location and modify the panning of sound output to direct attention to particular areas of the desktop. The application should be no harder to write than a simple mixer (although it should be able to play sounds at different panning locations at the same time.) The program should also have a tiny memory footprint. Additional adjustable parameters: Intensity of panning Individual application settings People probably will not want their music to be localized Should be easy to turn on and off (tray icon possibly) Turn real time panning on and off If someone moves a window while it is creating sound will the panning move with it or will it reset only after the window is dropped? The bottom line is...this attention management stuff is nothing new. However, it has always been implemented on the application level and never as part of a sound layer or a interface plugin. From reinout@cs.vu.nl Sun Jul 25 17:48:50 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from flits.cs.vu.nl (flits.cs.vu.nl [192.31.231.65]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1283B106E for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 17:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flits.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #91) id m1BoqrO-0001wiC; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48 +0200 Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Gnome Usability List Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> Message-ID: References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:48:51 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Uno Engborg wrote: > But for this to work we would probably need a new type of popup menu. > One that doesn't pop up the popup until the mouse is moved out on the > arrow. That way the base element of the menu would be selectable on > its own. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82162 regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 Against Software Patents in the EU - swpat.ffii.org From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:47:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FDE33B0E46 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m69so58639rne for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.75.57 with SMTP id x57mr97642rna; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:47:21 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:48:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7793B10DD for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so70853rnk for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.12.79 with SMTP id 79mr497684rnl; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:17 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:48:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.200]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD43C3B10D6 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so70861rnk for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.12.79 with SMTP id 79mr497780rnl; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:21 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From paul.best@gmail.com Sun Jul 25 19:48:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA393B0A07 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 19:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so70858rnk for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.12.79 with SMTP id 79mr497753rnl; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Best To: usability@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Usability] File menu applet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1090479143.2913.71.camel@daniele.icnet> <1090501562.19858.13.camel@daniele.icnet> <40FFE58D.8050603@webworks.se> X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:48:21 -0000 I agree completely with Reinout. This is my first post here, but I worked briefly on an application right along these lines. It seems to be permanently stalled right now. It did some of the things that you mention, and my notes on it basically include everything you mention. http://slack.it/?ProjectCrauti The code for it is here, its in python, which was the main problem I had with it, it only worked for me about 30% of the time. The other problem with it was I'm not really much of a programer, and while I was able to add a couple of features that I wanted to it, nautilus style mouse click behavior, dnd bookmark adding, etc, I wasn't able to make it have a automatically generated tree view, which was the most important feature. The development discussion of the project was originally in the dropline gnome forums. http://www.dropline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2794 From julo@altern.org Mon Jul 26 05:17:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60FF53B117A for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 05:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [213.36.36.149] (213.36.36.149) by mail.libertysurf.net (6.5.036) id 41048CB500067A2A for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:15:03 +0200 From: Julien Olivier To: Gnome Usability List Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:14:58 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:17:23 -0000 Hi Here are a few ideas I submitted to bugzilla.gnome.org (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131544) about Rhythmbox, but never got any comment. So I decided to forward them here, hoping that it could get more attention: Watching my friends use Rhythmbox on my computer, I noticed that the current search interface can be confusing in 2 common scenarii: 1st one: - You are looking for a song using the browser. - You set the artist/album but can't find the song in the (filtered) list - You then try using the search dialog In this scenario, the search will fail because the user forgot to reset the filters to all artists/all albums. I saw that happening a lot (always actually) when other people used rhythmbox. My proposition would be to automatically reset the artist/album filters when you perform a new search. But I guess some people wouldn't like it... So another solution would be to have the following UI: Search [ ] among |songs from [name of the artist]| |songs from [name of the album] | |all songs | 2nd one: - You are looking for a song named "Penny Lane" using the search field - You found your song and play it - You then click on an artist in the artist list (for example "Madonna") In this scenario, nothing appears in the song list because the user forgot to reset the search (by selecting "Penny Lane" and pressing DEL). And as Madonna never sang Penny Lane (AFAIK), nothing appears. My proposition would be simply blank the search field when changing the artist or the album filter. What do you think of those propositions ? -- Julien Olivier From jcs116@york.ac.uk Mon Jul 26 05:39:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk (pythagoras.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.140]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F5F3B08A5 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 05:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [82.68.105.97] (helo=slate.badgerhaus) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Bp1wo-0007lH-2G for usability@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:06 +0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: John Spray To: Gnome Usability List In-Reply-To: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:39:00 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.105.97] X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:07 -0000 On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 10:14, Julien Olivier wrote: > Search [ ] among |songs from [name of the artist]| > |songs from [name of the album] | > |all songs | I'm not sure I understand how you're suggesting that interface be laid out onscreen. Is this to be an extra list box in the main window? > My proposition would be simply blank the search field when changing the > artist or the album filter. I completely understand the motivation for doing this: I've thought about it myself. However, I think it depends upon the idea that the user uses the search box primarily for searching the whole library. The current functionality of the search box includes searches limited by artist(s) or album(s): to blank the search box when selecting artists demands that the user specify first the artist, then the search. It's an arbitrary limitation on the user, and it's not obvious that that's going to happen. I agree that the search box presents UI problems. Here are a couple of ideas of my own: -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to manually clear the search box. -Change the functionality of the search box. Given that its primary function is for search the whole library (since in most cases a particular artist can be searched by eye), perhaps this should be made its only function? A longer label such as "Search the whole library", and when there's text in that box, disable the artist/album/genre lists and have the song list present results from the whole library. My second suggestion is clearly a sacrifice of functionality for clearer UI: its implementation would depends entirely on how severe people think the search box UI problems are. -- John Spray From julo@altern.org Mon Jul 26 08:57:39 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373663B0828 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [213.36.36.30] (213.36.36.30) by mail.libertysurf.net (6.5.036) id 4104E88000038137; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:57:34 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: Julien Olivier To: John Spray In-Reply-To: <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:57:34 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:57:39 -0000 On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 11:39, John Spray wrote: > On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 10:14, Julien Olivier wrote: > > Search [ ] among |songs from [name of the artist]| > > |songs from [name of the album] | > > |all songs | > I'm not sure I understand how you're suggesting that interface be laid > out onscreen. Is this to be an extra list box in the main window? > I was thinking of a 1-line select box, like the one next to "save to folder" in GNOME's files save dialog. But maybe a radio box would be better, even if it takes more room (the advantage being that you can see all the choices at the same time...). > I agree that the search box presents UI problems. Here are a couple of > ideas of my own: > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > manually clear the search box. > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... > -Change the functionality of the search box. Given that its primary > function is for search the whole library (since in most cases a > particular artist can be searched by eye), perhaps this should be made > its only function? A longer label such as "Search the whole library", > and when there's text in that box, disable the artist/album/genre lists > and have the song list present results from the whole library. > My second suggestion is clearly a sacrifice of functionality for clearer > UI: its implementation would depends entirely on how severe people think > the search box UI problems are. I wouldn't mind the loss of functionality that your proposition would induce, as I only use the search box to look for music in the whole collection. But I guess it could disturb other users... -- Julien Olivier From boris@alum.mit.edu Mon Jul 26 09:39:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39ACB3B068A for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Info: This message was accepted for relay by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net as the sender used SMTP authentication X-Trace: HwC5moIL0Cj6ICE04et8LdDWSqgyHedmjQmx+ZjAjGMIBpQOHKZ8Cw== Received: from dialup-4.156.99.4.dial1.boston1.level3.net ([4.156.99.4] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #7) id 1Bp5hE-0006ZP-00; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <446FD022-DF09-11D8-85D9-00306578F772@alum.mit.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Boris Goldowsky Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:39:50 -0400 To: John Spray X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:39:18 -0000 On Jul 26, 2004, at 5:39 AM, John Spray wrote: > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > manually clear the search box. I think that would be very helpful; the blank screen is quite uninformative. The annoyance of clearing the search box could be alleviated by providing a clear button so it only takes one click. The clear button should be available any time there's text in the search box; not just when there are no search results. I hate saying "let's do it just like this other OS", but as a user of both Gnome and Mac OS X, one thing I've grown to love about OS X is the search box that is used across applications: it is visually distinctive, so it doesn't even require a label, and it manages to contain controls for adjusting the scope of the search and a clear button, without taking up much extra space. (There's a screenshot at http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/finder/). It would be nice to think about this issue beyond rhythmbox, and establish some Gnome-wide consistency about how searches and their related controls are presented. Bng -- Boris Goldowsky From smoke@medien.akbild.ac.at Mon Jul 26 13:47:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from viefep16-int.chello.at (viefep16-int.chello.at [213.46.255.17]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9E03B0796 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [80.110.99.166] by viefep16-int.chello.at (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20040726174742.CPEF28397.viefep16-int.chello.at@[80.110.99.166]> for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:47:42 +0200 Received: from smoke by 80.110.99.166 with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1Bp9Ze-0000s7-00 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:47:42 +0200 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: markus hammer To: Gnome UI In-Reply-To: <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: sabotage communications Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:47:41 +0200 Message-Id: <1090864061.3241.1.camel@80.110.99.166> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.9.2 Sender: markus hammer X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:47:47 -0000 Am Mon, den 26.07.2004 um 14:57 Uhr +0200 schrieb Julien Olivier: > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > > manually clear the search box. > > > > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found > no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... good idea, users need feedback on whats happening inside the computer, giving a blank Space with no feedback is not very user friendly... -- markus hammer hm@sabotage.at From menesis@chatsubo.lt Mon Jul 26 13:54:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from kauneta.net (net-253.kal.kalnieciai.lt [81.7.65.253]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFA43B0808 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.16.1.48] (helo=maumas) by kauneta.net with smtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Bp9eg-000B71-82; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:52:55 +0300 Received: by maumas (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:54:03 +0300 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: Gediminas Paulauskas To: Julien Olivier In-Reply-To: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:54:03 +0300 Message-Id: <1090864443.4408.21.camel@maumas> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 Cc: Gnome Usability List X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:54:09 -0000 On Pr, 2004-07-26 at 11:14 +0200, Julien Olivier wrote: > Hi > > Here are a few ideas I submitted to bugzilla.gnome.org > (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131544) about Rhythmbox, but > never got any comment. So I decided to forward them here, hoping that it > could get more attention: In both cases one solution would help: If search field is used together with album/artist filters, display a small warning bar at the top of search results, saying: "You have entered search criteria while some filters were active. Search the whole library.", where "Search..." string is a link which unsets the filters and executes the search. In second case display similar warning with different text, and clear the search field when link is clicked. This way the behavior would not change at all, allow people to search the old way and also make it possible to quickly correct their mistake. Warning bar is used in Microsoft Outlook for various mail display options, Mozilla Thunderbird for junk mail, yet unreleased IE 6 in SP2 and Mozilla Firefox nightlies for blocked popups & installs. See http://www.neilturner.me.uk/2004/Jul/13/more_on_new_firefox_features.html section "Information bar" for screenshots. menesis From jrockway@gmail.com Wed Jul 28 22:54:08 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D933B0E49 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 22:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so243686rnk for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 19:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.78.51 with SMTP id a51mr99621rnb; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 19:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <285fe7b10407281954330235f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:54:04 -0500 From: Jonathan Rockway To: usability@gnome.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Usability] suggestions for the nautilus cd creator "start" dialog X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:54:08 -0000 Hi there. I'm new to the list, but I'd like to get involved in the GNOME project (and Usability is my favorite topic). Anyway, I have two suggestions for the Nautilus CD Creator. Firstly, there is a distinct absence of a "Cancel" button. To cancel, one must click the close button that the WM provides. This seems a bit unclean (and unclear) to me. Secondly, it would be nice to show the capacity of the media to which you are recording. There are several cases: partially full multi-session CDs, DVDs, non-standard CDs (the new 1000MB ones?), and it is unclear to the user as to what the program is going to do. I put 3 gigs in the folder and expected an error after I clicked start due to my drive being a DVD drive. However, everything worked fine. Ideally I shouldn't have to guess about this; a used/free indicator would be nice. Have a good evening, everyone. -- Jonathan Rockway From duffy@rpi.edu Thu Jul 29 02:02:28 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from ares.penguinhosting.net (ares.penguinhosting.net [205.231.149.48]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9042D3B08C2 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29216 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ares.penguinhosting.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (ares.penguinhosting.net) Received: from [66.92.67.39] (authenticated as maureen) by ares.penguinhosting.net (MessageWall 1.0.9-test2) with SMTP; 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn?= Duffy To: Gnome Usability List In-Reply-To: <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:01:32 -0400 Message-Id: <1091080892.2655.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 (1.5.91-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 06:02:28 -0000 On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 14:57 +0200, Julien Olivier wrote: > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found > no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... This is a great idea. What do you think of taking it a step further and perhaps above the track listings where the search results appear, have a sentence telling you what you are currently viewing, ie: Search [walrus] Genre Artist Album [ ] [ The Beatles ] [ ] The following are tracks in your collection by the artist "The Beatles" that contain the term "walrus:" Track Title etc. [ "I am the Walrus" The Beatles ] When you are viewing all, it could just say "The following are all of the tracks in your collection:" Maybe overkill? I think it might make what you're actually looking at clearer (although I'm not sure how many users would want to take the time to read it? But -it's short enough that you can glance at it. It may be less of a cognitive load to read a sentence than to parse all of the selection boxes and come up with that sentence in your head if that makes sense.) -It also shouldn't take up that much space. -It may be a better solution than Julien's very good suggestion of having a drop-down so users could pick "search from album/artist/all" because users may get the impression that you couldn't search for example, for all songs by Phish in a "live music" genre, using two filters at the same time. I feel strongly that the functionality of the search box doesn't have to be impaired, especially because I feel that there are solutions for making the state of the track listing window clearer to the user to clear up the search box "no results" confusion. ~Máirín From liste@pimpzkru.de Thu Jul 29 02:07:06 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from mail-out.m-online.net (mail-out.m-online.net [212.18.0.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 723543B0734 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.m-online.net (svr14.m-online.net [192.168.3.144]) by svr8.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781CF52C60 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pimpzkru.dyndns.org (ppp-82-135-1-142.mnet-online.de [82.135.1.142]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A35EF4EB for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pimpzkru.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5B5CB6BC for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pimpzkru.dyndns.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vegaserver [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12532-05 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.169.18.2] (renatepc.pimpzkru [10.169.18.2]) (using SSLv3 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pimpzkru.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3263CB6BB for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [Usability] A few ideas to improve searches in Rhythmbox From: Sebastian Heinlein To: usability@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1090864061.3241.1.camel@80.110.99.166> References: <1090833297.5894.2.camel@julien> <1090834740.3396.9.camel@slate> <1090846653.5509.9.camel@julien> <1090864061.3241.1.camel@80.110.99.166> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:06:28 +0200 Message-Id: <1091081188.22632.5.camel@renatepc.pimpzkru> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p9 (Debian) at the GeekWG X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 06:07:06 -0000 Am Montag, den 26.07.2004, 19:47 +0200 schrieb markus hammer: > Am Mon, den 26.07.2004 um 14:57 Uhr +0200 schrieb Julien Olivier: > > > > -When the song list contains no items, but there is text in the search > > > box, present a message in the list box along the lines of "Search for > > > 'penny lane' found no results". This should alleviate most of the > > > potential confusion about why no songs are listed, although it doesn't > > > eliminate the minor annoyance when the user realises they've got to > > > manually clear the search box. > > > > > > > Maybe a better solution could be to show "Search for 'penny lane' found > > no results, press _here_ to clear the search"... > > good idea, users need feedback on whats happening inside the computer, > giving a blank Space with no feedback is not very user friendly... I am also interested in this discussion, since I work on the synaptic package manager and we thought about implementing such an instant search to provide a faster access to the large number of packages available in some distrus (there are nearly 15000 packages in Debian). Regards, Sebastian From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Thu Jul 29 11:57:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B52E3B1040 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:57:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-eris-2 ([129.156.85.26]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6TFvrin001776 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.eris-mail1.uk.sun.com by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0I1M00601EUNGS@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for usability@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:57:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from cdelab89.ireland.sun.com (cdelab89.Ireland.Sun.COM [129.156.226.189]) by eris-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I1M002IWF0HTW@eris-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:57:53 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:58:11 +0100 From: Calum Benson Subject: Re: [Usability] suggestions for the nautilus cd creator "start" dialog In-reply-to: <285fe7b10407281954330235f@mail.gmail.com> To: Jonathan Rockway Message-id: <1091116691.21153.45.camel@cdelab89.ireland.sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsytems Ireland Ltd. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <285fe7b10407281954330235f@mail.gmail.com> Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 15:57:57 -0000 On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 03:54, Jonathan Rockway wrote: > Anyway, I have two suggestions for the Nautilus CD Creator. Welcome aboard! For requests/fixes as concrete as these ones against existing products, it's probably better just to file them at bugzilla.gnome.org, cc'ing usability-maint@bugzilla.gnome.org and adding the usability keyword... this list is better for the more general arm-waving kind of stuff :) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From davyd@madeley.id.au Sat Jul 31 03:10:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au [203.56.14.38]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D636E3B1130 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 03:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pingu.cook.theducks.org (cook.theducks.org [203.22.197.49]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C125E1F8002 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:10:34 +0800 (WST) From: Davyd Madeley To: usability@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El" Message-Id: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Resent-From: Davyd Madeley Resent-To: usability@gnome.org Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:10:17 +0800 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.91 Resent-Message-Id: <20040731071034.C125E1F8002@oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au> Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:10:34 +0800 (WST) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:58:31 -0400 Subject: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 07:10:20 -0000 --=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I need some advice from the gurus who dwell here. 1) how should this dialog look in your eyes? http://davyd.angrygoats.net/images/battstat-applet-sample.png and 2) should I merge this patch? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D131322#c9 regards --d PS: please CC, not on list --=20 http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/ =20 PGP Fingerprint 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA --=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/pgp/ iD8DBQBBCwXjLt27T1GRbNoRAujVAKCq4xspy/CzhUg9BjRH8q0t9J4jgwCdG62/ yK748ws6prm3hOedqdGM+mk= =XYOU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-FCE6U+hAVHRNhNzF52El-- From stevelist@silverorange.com Sat Jul 31 10:20:00 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from nova.silverorange.com (nova.silverorange.com [198.167.161.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5683B1346 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (unknown [142.176.234.122]) by nova.silverorange.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EFE7C2496; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:19:57 -0300 (ADT) Message-ID: <410BAA8D.7010207@silverorange.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:19:57 -0300 From: Steven Garrity User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040519) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Davyd Madeley Subject: Re: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus References: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> In-Reply-To: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 14:20:00 -0000 Davyd Madeley wrote: > 1) how should this dialog look in your eyes? > http://davyd.angrygoats.net/images/battstat-applet-sample.png Not a whole lot different than it does now. However, I think it should have a primary header message, with a more detail message below, as in explained and shown in example in this section of the Human Interface Guidelines: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/windows-alert.html#alert-text The strong (bold) heading will follow the HIG, and make the dialog easier to 'scan' and quickly recognize. Thanks, Steven Garrity From reinout@cs.vu.nl Sat Jul 31 11:25:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from flits.cs.vu.nl (flits.cs.vu.nl [192.31.231.65]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA153B0789 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flits.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #95) id m1BqvkC-0001vdC; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:25 +0200 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:25:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Davyd Madeley Subject: Re: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus In-Reply-To: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> Message-ID: References: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:25:57 -0000 On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Davyd Madeley wrote: > 1) how should this dialog look in your eyes? In addition to what Steven already said: the alert should probably use the stock information icon (light bulb). Furthermore the string '(0%, charged)' looks a bit cryptic. 'Charged' seems to indicate the opposite of what the message is warning against. It might as well be omitted. > should I merge this patch? > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131322#c9 Given the importance of the warning I'm inclined to say yes, provided that interaction with other windows isn't prohibited (i.e. don't make it system modal). good luck, -- Reinout van Schouwen Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 - wie helpt me aan een nieuwe kamer in/rond Amsterdam? - From reinout@cs.vu.nl Sat Jul 31 15:19:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: usability@gnome.org Delivered-To: usability@gnome.org Received: from flits.cs.vu.nl (flits.cs.vu.nl [192.31.231.65]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DFC13B07E1 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flits.cs.vu.nl with esmtp (Smail #95) id m1BqzO6-0001vdC; Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:19 +0200 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:19:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Reinout van Schouwen To: Davyd Madeley Subject: Re: [Usability] questions for the UI gurus In-Reply-To: <1091287861.2184.54.camel@pingu> Message-ID: References: <1091241444.2184.39.camel@pingu> <1091287861.2184.54.camel@pingu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: usability@gnome.org X-BeenThere: usability@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: This list is devoted to discussing and improving GNOME's usability List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 19:19:23 -0000 On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Davyd Madeley wrote: > My apologies for the string '0% charged', this is simply an effect of > what I did to simulate the dialog, normally it would say something like > (10%, 0:24 remaining) or something like that. In that case, I would suggest just '24 minutes remaining'. It's not clear offhand whether 0:24 means 24 seconds or 24 minutes... regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen Artificial Intelligence student email: reinout@cs.vu.nl mobile phone: +31-6-44360778 - wie helpt me aan een nieuwe kamer in/rond Amsterdam? -