Re: Open to discussion...

[Dominik Vogt <dominik vogt gmx de>]

On Sun, Jun 20, 1999 at 02:55:11PM -0700, Derek Simkowiak wrote:
> > > And the documentation for any given WM
> > > could be a text file, HTML, or even a custom help-file format intended
> > > only for use with that WM.  
> > 
> > Like with every other software. 
> 
> 	Not with every other software.  Only with non-Gnome software.  If
> a user is using the Gnome desktop with Gnome applications, he will have a
> consistent help-system user interface within all applications.
> 
> > Why is this a problem ?
> 
> 	Because the end-user, whose only computing experience might be a
> Mac or Win9x, will not know where to look for the WM documentation
> (physically on the hard drive), won't know how to view it, and will be
> confused when they use the Gnome help browser to search the index and
> nothing comes up.
> 
> 	Remember, Gnome is supposed to be intuitive and easy enough to use
> for people who don't even know what a window manager is, let alone dealing
> with an install, compile, READMEs, etc. of a window manager.
> 
> > Don't confuse multiple desks with pagers. Gnome very much needs wms to 
> > provide multiple desks. The pager is only a GUI on top of this basic
> > functionality.  
> 
> 	Yes, I need someone to clarify that part explicitly, thank you.
> Also, in some WMs there is a different between a "Desk" and a "Workspace",
> which only further confuses the issue.  Work needs to be done here.
> 
> > > 	...that's about 90% of the code of AfterStep, WindowMaker, and
> > > Enlightenment.  
> > 
> > Sounds like fvwm is the perfect wm for you, as it does all of the above
> > with modules which you can choose not to start.
> 
> 	Yes, most of the functionality in AfterStep is done with modules
> and can be disabled, too--however, does fvwm or AfterStep have Gnome
> documentation?  Does it default to not creating minimized icons on the
> desktop, and having all of the other modules disabled under Gnome?  Does
> it have a Gtk+ based configuration utility, and does it read the Gnome
> config files to determine things like what applications should appear on
> the program-lauching menu?
> 
> 	I do believe that, once a "Gnome window manager spec" is created,
> many of our favorite WMs will be able to (1) create a Gtk+ configuration
> utility, (2) add support for whatever WM hints we deem necessary, (3)
> convert their documentation to work in the Gnome help browser, and (4)
> repackage themselves without all the feature-duplicating modules, but
> those steps are large enough to warrant a separate distribution of the WM.

No, I think it will be different. In the end there will kwm and gnomewm (or
whatever you'll call it). They will be the only ones that will be KDE/GNOME
compliant and they will be incompatible because of (1) and (3). (4) is
particularly silly. Why should the *default* behaviour of any WM disable
all icons? Or shutdown the module interface? Such things can be *configured*
by the distributor, or do you think it's possible to simply install a WM
(with default config), install GNOME or KDE from the .tar.gz files, start
it and get WM/DE working perfectly together? There are distributors that
do the base configuration for you. If you don't like a feature with GNOME
you can simply disable it's entries in the config program.

> Anyone not using Gnome will probably not want those 4 things done, and
> it's not fair to force people into using Gtk+ just to be "Gnome
> compliant".
> 
> > Otherwise they don't get the "Designed for Gnome" logo :-) 
> 
> 	Something like that... :)
> 
> > ..."require"..."enforce"...doesn't sound very nice to me. 
> 
> 	It'll be nice when I can change my background in one, intuitive
> place, and have it stay changed after I restart X.

Bye

Dominik ^_^

--
Dominik Vogt, dominik.vogt@gmx.de
Reply-To: dominik.vogt@gmx.de