From gleblanc@cu-portland.edu Sun Apr 1 23:40:35 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from mail3.aracnet.com (mail3.aracnet.com [216.99.193.38]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6451E2DDD7 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 23:40:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peecee.linuxweasel.com (216-99-218-48.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.48]) by mail3.aracnet.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f323eQ417223; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:40:27 -0700 Subject: Re: DocTable status From: Gregory Leblanc To: Dan Mueth Cc: GNOME Doc List In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Evolution/0.10 (Preview Release) Date: 01 Apr 2001 20:38:10 -0700 Message-Id: <986182691.10765.0.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On 29 Mar 2001 17:57:21 -0800, Dan Mueth wrote: > > Several people have asked where the DocTable went, so... > > The DocTable is now available at: > > http://canvas.gnome.org:65348/gdp//doctable/doctable.php3 As it turns out, it already exists at www.gnome.org/gdp/doctable/doctable.php3, I just didn't know about it. :-) Greg From return@trafficmagnet.net Sun Apr 8 00:00:02 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from ns2.trafficmagnet.net (unknown [202.108.223.8]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390002BC7C for ; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:00:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yym ([202.108.221.168]) by ns2.trafficmagnet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27171 for ; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 12:04:31 +0800 Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 12:04:31 +0800 Message-Id: <200104080404.MAA27171@ns2.trafficmagnet.net> From: Christine Hall To: docs@gnome.org Subject: PROJECTS.GNOME.HU Reply-To: christine@trafficmagnet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues

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From ak@rattenwurst.dyndns.org Mon Apr 9 14:20:14 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from email04.aon.at (WARSL401PIP7.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.115]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E67F52DCEA for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5635430 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 18:20:11 -0000 Received: from l1474p06.dipool.highway.telekom.at (HELO rattenwurst.dyndns.org) ([62.46.248.38]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail4.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 9 Apr 2001 18:20:11 -0000 Received: (from ak@localhost) by rattenwurst.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1/Debian 8.11.0-6) id f39IKHs03593 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 20:20:17 +0200 Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 20:20:17 +0200 From: Andreas Krennmair To: GDP Mailingliste Subject: Gnome Mines Documentation Message-ID: <20010409202017.A3561@aon.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-ripemd160; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! My name is Andreas Krennmair, and I just wrote some documentation for the game Gnome Mines. You can download it from=20 . All comments are welcome, of course. :) The documentation has some bad grammar in it, I think, but I didn't exactly know how to express certain things. Regards, Andreas Krennmair --=20 You know how cats always land on their feet when they fall from a sufficient height ? Well, so do CPU's, but they don't make such a good job of landing intact... -- Chris King in alt.sysadmin.recovery --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQEeBAEUAwAGBQI60f1hAAoJECw98mPKmtL6NwsD/366msY3EMj+xk/iWqsHrDM9 gk05/J9TC72sTm193m1cHC2YKEzK0jFP8HzIPZXnpcELltyPEIW0R49JMZC/8Tk1 svKY1Gg7U5PsnCa00umwEJSLuWUxFvdVXo5Wd97Wj5pf46j0UgybuD9WLz4NVDED L705R3nT+RRe+n/nM7eWA/4jWyHvvpsjxFbwYbLGlJbalyxYABl50VdolL/US+iz rudyG10KFvsm6+V/ezw6vpBLzYWoVkNYdqTrJPS6m0Vr3AI6DNAzvZFZqvwyxiNo bECTa8Oh5dDv/PrGPZR68zPEsQKkZSOOXrTGPGnbrq3iqP9B+n6VrYQtb//FJ+jk 8A== =vLTp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO-- From kirillov@peconic.math.sunysb.edu Mon Apr 9 14:39:51 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from peconic.math.sunysb.edu (mail.math.sunysb.edu [129.49.18.67]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C9D2BAB8 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:39:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from copiague.math.sunysb.edu (IDENT:root@copiague [129.49.18.192]) by peconic.math.sunysb.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04407; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:39:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kirillov@localhost) by copiague.math.sunysb.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27227; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:39:50 -0400 Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:39:50 -0400 From: Alexander Kirillov To: Andreas Krennmair Cc: GDP Subject: Re: Gnome Mines Documentation Message-ID: <20010409143950.A27211@math.sunysb.edu> References: <20010409202017.A3561@aon.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20010409202017.A3561@aon.at>; from a.krennmair@aon.at on Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 08:20:17PM +0200 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Thanks for your help, but...it seems that gnome-mines already have some documentation, written by Tim Riehle - and in fact his docs are more detailed (but probably still could use some further help - better talk to him). Too bad that the same work had to be done twice - the whole purpose of DocTable (http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gdp/doctable/) is to avoid this kind of problems. On the other hand, there are still some games and other parts of GNOME that badly need documentation - so there is plenty of work for all :) Best, Sasha On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 08:20:17PM +0200, Andreas Krennmair wrote: > Hello! > > My name is Andreas Krennmair, and I just wrote some documentation for the > game Gnome Mines. You can download it from > . All comments > are welcome, of course. :) The documentation has some bad grammar in it, > I think, but I didn't exactly know how to express certain things. > > Regards, > Andreas Krennmair From dan@eazel.com Tue Apr 10 03:13:17 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from foodle.localdomain (eazel130.eazel.com [64.0.4.130]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C3CE2BF61; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 03:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by foodle.localdomain (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3A6DBD05908; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 23:13:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: foodle.eazel.com: dan owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 23:13:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Mueth X-Sender: dan@foodle.localdomain To: GNOME Hackers , GNOME Doc List Subject: GNOME Developer Documentation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues One of the topics which kept coming up at GUADEC II was the need for much better developer documentation for GNOME 2.0. It was generally agreed that we should have a 100% documented API. We came up with a few ideas (listed below) on how we can make this easier to achieve. We also need to have updated and complete white papers and tutorials. These materials should all be available both on http://developer.gnome.org (d.g.o.) as well as downloadable as part of the GNOME packages. I put together a brief outline of what I think we need to do to make this all happen. Feel free to give feedback on this outline or to volunteer to do any task which has an assignment of "(???)". If you would like to contribute in any way please email me. If you are a module/project maintainer, please evaluate the status of the material currently on developer.gnome.org for your module/project and send me an email indicating whether the information is up-to-date or needs to be rewritten. Dan -------- GNOME 2.0 Developer Docs Plan v0.1 ---------------------------------- API Docs -------- Aim to have mostly completed by July 31, and 100% complete by Aug 15. Gtk-doc: 1) create m4 macros so that setting up gtk-doc in a module is much easier (Maciej?, ???) 2) Merge and improve existing documentation into a single DocBook doc and put on d.g.o. and in gtk-doc package and RPM. (???) 3) Create example packages illustrating how to set up a module with gtk-doc (???) Web: 1) Set up a web page which shows the status of API documentation for each module. (???) 2) Update scripts to build docs and place them on d.g.o. as necessary (???) Writing: * Package maintainers are responsible for making sure the module they maintain is documented on time. * It is strongly encouraged that package maintainers do not accept patches which do not include any necessary documentation updates. * Package maintainers whose API docs are not completed on schedule will be publicly shamed. White Papers, Tutorials, etc. ----------------------------- Templates: 1) Create templates for tutorials, white papers, etc (Dan/GDP,???) Modules: * Docs should be placed in the module they describe if appropriate, and be shipped in the -devel package. * For devel docs which do not clearly belong in a particular module, put them in gnome-devel-docs. (Please email dan@eazel.com before adding a new document to this module.) Licensing: * Please license under FDL (GNU Free Documentation Library) if possible Format: * DocBook/SGML (of course) Web: 1) These documents should be automagically built from CVS and placed on d.g.o. (???) http://developer.gnome.org (d.g.o.) ----------------------------------- 1) Review. Remove obsolete contents. Update. (Kenny?, ???) GNOME Platform Overview ----------------------- Right now, d.g.o. has an overview of the GNOME platform presented under the many subsections of "Architecture". Each item is described by a few short paragraphs and any relevant links are listed at the bottom. This is a really valuable resource for people getting started. (Except that it is very out-of-date.) This should be available in a downloadable and printable format. The easiest way to do this is probably to just reproduce this with updated content in a DocBook/SGML document. This document could be placed in gnome-devel-docs for distribution. For d.g.o., we would replace the whole "architecture" section of the web page with a link to the HTML version of this page. The biggest downside is that we lose the very nice d.g.o. look and feel. If we want to keep the d.g.o. feel, we could probably come up with a script which merges the HTML output generated from the DocBook docs into the templates used by d.g.o. Another option would be that each page is an entity which would allow us to generate the d.g.o. pages by using an appropriate stylesheet. (Does anybody feel particularly strongly about how we handle this or if we even just have a single HTML doc replacing the Architecture part of the tree?) Other ----- We should make all documents available in printable form (PS or PDF). This may be from the web page and/or the packages. (Probably just the web pages.) Update GDP web pages and Handbook to have more info on devel docs (Dan). From ak@rattenwurst.dyndns.org Tue Apr 10 10:04:42 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from email03.aon.at (WARSL401PIP5.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.112]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BDF702BCC8 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5108150 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 14:04:38 -0000 Received: from l1467p08.dipool.highway.telekom.at (HELO rattenwurst.dyndns.org) ([62.46.247.72]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail3.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Apr 2001 14:04:38 -0000 Received: (from ak@localhost) by rattenwurst.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1/Debian 8.11.0-6) id f3AE4hR02158; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:04:43 +0200 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:04:42 +0200 From: Andreas Krennmair To: Alexander Kirillov Cc: GDP Mailingliste Subject: Re: Gnome Mines Documentation Message-ID: <20010410160442.A2054@aon.at> References: <20010409202017.A3561@aon.at> <20010409143950.A27211@math.sunysb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <20010409143950.A27211@math.sunysb.edu>; from kirillov@math.sunysb.edu on Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 02:39:50PM -0400 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 02:39:50PM -0400, Alexander Kirillov wrote: > Too bad that the same work had to be done twice - the whole purpose of > DocTable (http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gdp/doctable/) is to Well, as far as I saw there, Gnome Mines only has About and Icon finished, manual", help and context help are marked as missing. That's why I actually chose it. > avoid this kind of problems. On the other hand, there are still some > games and other parts of GNOME that badly need documentation - so > there is plenty of work for all :) OK, I will try to find something I can document. Regards, Andreas Krennmair -- (DEFUN HELLO-WORLD() (PRINT (LIST 'JUST 'ANOTHER 'LISP 'HACKER))) From ak@rattenwurst.dyndns.org Tue Apr 10 11:35:38 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from email03.aon.at (WARSL401PIP5.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.112]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AE5E42DEAD for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 445110 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 15:35:36 -0000 Received: from l1467p08.dipool.highway.telekom.at (HELO rattenwurst.dyndns.org) ([62.46.247.72]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail3.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Apr 2001 15:35:36 -0000 Received: (from ak@localhost) by rattenwurst.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1/Debian 8.11.0-6) id f3AFZfd02684 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:35:41 +0200 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:35:40 +0200 From: Andreas Krennmair To: GDP Mailingliste Subject: DocTable: General GNOME Documents: If you are new to UNIX Message-ID: <20010410173540.A2634@aon.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-ripemd160; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="qMm9M+Fa2AknHoGS" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues --qMm9M+Fa2AknHoGS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! What's this document mentioned in the subject meant to be? Shall that be a general introduction to Unix? If so, I would like to do that. I did several presentations about Unix in school and also wrote a script for my classmates, so I have some experience with that subject (my signature is pure fiction and not related to that ;). What audience is this document going to have? Complete newbies or people with some experience? Should it be a more general introduction or a technical one? Questions over questions... Regards, Andreas Krennmair --=20 I was never good in school. I didn't like their version of reality. --qMm9M+Fa2AknHoGS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQEdBAEUAwAGBQI60yhMAAoJECw98mPKmtL6T/4D/RtpPE1cP+7liwjqS7uPyWFy TsuMif7fhud/X6yGCSvHHxv1s9sZK0Dgh+N+uTl+tcBJFTByQp6pcGYTW+9dh0Hg flBXybcYnUwpGjsPxse8OOx648yj3BJId0DH4xRR3X4GpaxSfFx9rNy0YLNxb6uO /jYGG+h2or+WVf0OCoQiA/jIUH1sJJEN1apgs6ud3Q4owbO6w0nna0AcLYLsjEFJ SHdoylCNTrWWCsvI4US9hCOu8X/zvaW7rL7YtoWDA+piHf4e0XsmJaOf0CxtiF6d QVt/vy/lz236UArN07u8K5E/a+lchArJcYhf+OrXPORUirY/+us4g/DiMJRhKEsb =cOI+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qMm9M+Fa2AknHoGS-- From jfleck@swcp.com Tue Apr 10 11:38:04 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from swcp.com (unknown [216.184.13.137]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FE12DE30 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jfleck@localhost) by swcp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00842 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:37:36 -0600 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:37:36 -0600 From: John Fleck To: GDP Mailingliste Subject: Re: Gnome Mines Documentation Message-ID: <20010410093736.E755@inkstain.net> Mail-Followup-To: GDP Mailingliste References: <20010409202017.A3561@aon.at> <20010409143950.A27211@math.sunysb.edu> <20010410160442.A2054@aon.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20010410160442.A2054@aon.at>; from Andreas Krennmair on Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 04:04:42PM +0200 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 04:04:42PM +0200, Andreas Krennmair wrote: > Well, as far as I saw there, Gnome Mines only has About and Icon finished, > manual", help and context help are marked as missing. That's why I actually > chose it. > Alas, you apparently did the right thing. We've obviously not been as good as we should at keeping the doctable up-to-date. For that reason, it's probably a good idea to send an email to this list before starting work on a doc, just to make sure the doctable is up-to-date for the application in question. Cheers, -- John Fleck jfleck@inkstain.net (h) jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ From jfleck@swcp.com Tue Apr 10 11:42:29 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from swcp.com (unknown [216.184.13.137]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660B02DDE0 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jfleck@localhost) by swcp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00857 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:42:01 -0600 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:42:01 -0600 From: John Fleck To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: seeking logview docs volunteer Message-ID: <20010410094201.F755@inkstain.net> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Folks - In doing some computational archaeology recently, I came across a half-finished copy of the documentation for logview in the gnome-utils package. The author has not been reachable for some time, so I'd like to find a volunteer to take over and finish it up. Any takers? It'd be great if we could get this documented in the next gnome-utils release. Cheers, -- John Fleck jfleck@inkstain.net (h) jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ From kirillov@peconic.math.sunysb.edu Tue Apr 10 12:13:16 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from peconic.math.sunysb.edu (mail.math.sunysb.edu [129.49.18.67]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E514E2BD74 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from copiague.math.sunysb.edu (IDENT:root@copiague [129.49.18.192]) by peconic.math.sunysb.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13457; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kirillov@localhost) by copiague.math.sunysb.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA31071; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:13:14 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:13:14 -0400 From: Alexander Kirillov To: Andreas Krennmair Cc: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: DocTable: General GNOME Documents: If you are new to UNIX Message-ID: <20010410121314.A30981@math.sunysb.edu> References: <20010410173540.A2634@aon.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20010410173540.A2634@aon.at>; from a.krennmair@aon.at on Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 05:35:40PM +0200 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Yes, this is kind of a general intro to UNIX, and it is mostly written - in fact, it is included in the package gnome-user-docs in 1.4. You can also check it out from CVS: cvs:/gnome-user-docs/unix-primer/C/uinxi-primer.sgml Please take a look - and send me comments/suggestions regarding this document. If you think you can write better than that - great, let's rewrite it. And thanks for bringing this to my attention - the DocTable is seriously out-of-date; I'll update this and other entries today. Thanks, Sasha On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 05:35:40PM +0200, Andreas Krennmair wrote: > Hello! > > What's this document mentioned in the subject meant to be? Shall that be > a general introduction to Unix? If so, I would like to do that. I did > several presentations about Unix in school and also wrote a script for > my classmates, so I have some experience with that subject (my signature is > pure fiction and not related to that ;). > > What audience is this document going to have? Complete newbies or people > with some experience? Should it be a more general introduction or a > technical one? Questions over questions... > > Regards, > Andreas Krennmair > -- > I was never good in school. I didn't like their version of reality. From ak@rattenwurst.dyndns.org Tue Apr 10 13:07:34 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from email02.aon.at (WARSL401PIP3.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.75]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AB6712BB53 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 813104 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 17:07:31 -0000 Received: from l1467p08.dipool.highway.telekom.at (HELO rattenwurst.dyndns.org) ([62.46.247.72]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail2.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Apr 2001 17:07:31 -0000 Received: (from ak@localhost) by rattenwurst.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1/Debian 8.11.0-6) id f3AH7av03474; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:07:36 +0200 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:07:34 +0200 From: Andreas Krennmair To: Alexander Kirillov Cc: GDP Mailingliste Subject: Re: DocTable: General GNOME Documents: If you are new to UNIX Message-ID: <20010410190734.A3363@aon.at> References: <20010410173540.A2634@aon.at> <20010410121314.A30981@math.sunysb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-ripemd160; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0F1p//8PRICkK4MW" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <20010410121314.A30981@math.sunysb.edu>; from kirillov@math.sunysb.edu on Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 12:13:14PM -0400 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 12:13:14PM -0400, Alexander Kirillov wrote: > Please take a look - and send me comments/suggestions regarding this > document. If you think you can write better than that - great, let's > rewrite it.=20 I find it really good. I couldn't write it better. :) What you could maybe mention is that even directories and devices are special types of files. > And thanks for bringing this to my attention - the DocTable is > seriously out-of-date; I'll update this and other entries today.=20 OK, then I can pick out some thing to document that is not already done by= =20 somebody else. :) Best regards, Andreas Krennmair --=20 int ggt(int a,int b){while(a>b?(a%=3Db):(b%=3Da));return(a?a:b);} --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQEeBAEUAwAGBQI60z3WAAoJECw98mPKmtL6m7kD+gOGJDIZ17NMAq2CLW4ryVn4 BzUqQbJnBquSAD9bGW615gU0FXawv0GTRQExMWMoOeuav8D5KbUUmPACB/UWfyBB 84a0tP9MEj1rAiPazmlLCPzMLhjf8P6XrxUdfh/muZud20bEyswSweSMR7vjLrP1 btmSX4QDn1OAsDq1HJuXA/9zkvKCpvoEUsJRjNQqVl8uBIIMYzzxkQbwl+rLbmby BxxmcMimiPDAGNrs8Hbva8yRncq7+mI4UmOc+nDbO/IeJm1lhC0LUx8TcjQdian2 5trPZuGwSw/dh/ytazCxI+hxFtPT7J1uul0NQu7trlPU2J3qzCr7y8tEUd5XsUFk 8w== =KVUy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW-- From PPB1701@worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 10 13:55:23 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.50]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 236B92BB53 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from patrick ([12.77.123.171]) by mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010410175521.WUCZ21045.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@patrick>; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:55:21 +0000 Message-ID: <003701c0c1e6$b822c860$ab7b4d0c@patrick> From: "Patrick" To: "John Fleck" , Subject: Re: seeking logview docs volunteer Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:50:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues I think I might could work on it on some of my free time, where can I find what has been wrote up on it? Patrick Boyd PPB1701 -----Original Message----- From: John Fleck To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 11:45 AM Subject: seeking logview docs volunteer >Folks - > >In doing some computational archaeology recently, I came across a >half-finished copy of the documentation for logview in the gnome-utils >package. The author has not been reachable for some time, so I'd like >to find a volunteer to take over and finish it up. > >Any takers? It'd be great if we could get this documented in the next >gnome-utils release. > >Cheers, >-- >John Fleck >jfleck@inkstain.net (h) >jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) >http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ >http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ > >_______________________________________________ >gnome-doc-list mailing list >gnome-doc-list@gnome.org >http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list From manomano@ciaoweb.it Tue Apr 10 14:08:14 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from relay2.inwind.it (relay2.inwind.it [212.141.53.73]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B92D2BB53 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e6z1t6 (62.98.80.160) by relay2.inwind.it (5.5.025) id 3ACAF2ED0013EC27; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:07:53 +0200 Message-ID: <000801c0c1e9$292c8c60$a050623e@e6z1t6> From: "Germano Rizzo" To: "John Fleck" , References: <20010410094201.F755@inkstain.net> Subject: Re: seeking logview docs volunteer Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:06:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues If anyone else won't take the job before, I can do it... I guess I can write quite good in english, and I could care the italian translation, too. If you want, let me know how to do it: what version of the program to use (I have gnome-utils 1.4.0 currently installed), where can I find the incomplete document... Have a nice evening, Mano :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Questa non è una lettera da mettere da parte con leggerezza.Bisogna scagliarla via con grande forza. --Dorothy Parker ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Germano Rizzo - manomano@ciaoweb.it http://mano.interfree.it http://www.bdp.it/~veee0001/ http://gnomermind.sourceforge.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Fleck" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:42 PM Subject: seeking logview docs volunteer | Folks - | | In doing some computational archaeology recently, I came across a | half-finished copy of the documentation for logview in the gnome-utils | package. The author has not been reachable for some time, so I'd like | to find a volunteer to take over and finish it up. | | Any takers? It'd be great if we could get this documented in the next | gnome-utils release. | | Cheers, | -- | John Fleck | jfleck@inkstain.net (h) | jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) | http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ | http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ | | _______________________________________________ | gnome-doc-list mailing list | gnome-doc-list@gnome.org | http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list | From ak@rattenwurst.dyndns.org Tue Apr 10 14:43:09 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from email01.aon.at (WARSL401PIP1.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.69]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1BA422BA85 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 43762 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 18:42:06 -0000 Received: from l1467p08.dipool.highway.telekom.at (HELO rattenwurst.dyndns.org) ([62.46.247.72]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail1.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Apr 2001 18:42:06 -0000 Received: (from ak@localhost) by rattenwurst.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1/Debian 8.11.0-6) id f3AIgBk05106 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:42:11 +0200 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:42:11 +0200 From: Andreas Krennmair To: GDP Mailingliste Subject: What's new in Gnome 1.4 documentation Message-ID: <20010410204211.A5031@aon.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-ripemd160; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues --dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I announce that I am going to write the document 'What is new in Gnome 1.4' as suggested by Alexander Kirillov. This document is not yet in the DocTabl= e, but should appear soon. Regards, Andreas Krennmair --=20 Find bad web sites 8x faster." =20 -- Motorola ISDN modem ad --dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQEeBAEUAwAGBQI601QDAAoJECw98mPKmtL69loD/2WtFMVyoBUMW1WLvMBeyNMO 8odWluIz5x8W4cId4PNKuMKfY7aN7ed0OF//p/yvsSONyJ+ms8N4hd6hpeyGNIAO 0axsv+z6Zg2DHd9PsOQ5+7VMXaW8EyKf4QE5UKynj5OGaq6P+88cqaYYRV84B78+ tx91fO/CadsA9w82pZYTBADLaZ6QrOFsrUi537tGEhqh2ZoyDJWm/ATzVF4IXGzy pwEnYP19fyl6JisHSgHLF+tU3HQlLAwURfScVrpssSCsJ/gppUk0RPyd2lk7Sxc0 xBp5pk6s29cHBxOAE71wFSgfCtc9YN8AJ567+ukY1vWhzTseLVJ8Q5I4NtdM2udc HA== =fssx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx-- From manomano@ciaoweb.it Tue Apr 10 15:04:17 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from relay4.inwind.it (relay4.inwind.it [212.141.53.75]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89F982BA85 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e6z1t6 (62.98.115.183) by relay4.inwind.it (5.5.025) id 3ACAF525001280A2; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:03:59 +0200 Message-ID: <001b01c0c1f0$ff5d72c0$b773623e@e6z1t6> From: "Germano Rizzo" To: "John Fleck" , Subject: If at first you don't succeed... ;) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:59:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Hi! :) I guess there's someone else to write the logview docs; well, just fine! :)) I was wondering if there is something else to write... I checked and I found that (for example) gmix and samegnome are without docs, aren't they? Or someone is writing them? I'd still like to contribute... I noticed there are some apps un-docs-ized, too, that haven't got a menubar... the sysinfo tool, for example. Isn't it meant to have a manual? Or it is elsewhere? A great hello, Mano :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Questa non è una lettera da mettere da parte con leggerezza.Bisogna scagliarla via con grande forza. --Dorothy Parker ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Germano Rizzo - manomano@ciaoweb.it http://mano.interfree.it http://www.bdp.it/~veee0001/ http://gnomermind.sourceforge.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From jfleck@swcp.com Tue Apr 10 15:57:02 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from shimi.swcp.com (shimi.swcp.com [198.59.115.14]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 844BC2BA85 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jfleck@localhost) by shimi.swcp.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04948; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:54:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shimi.swcp.com: jfleck owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:54:49 -0600 (MDT) From: John Fleck To: Patrick Cc: John Fleck , gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: seeking logview docs volunteer In-Reply-To: <003701c0c1e6$b822c860$ab7b4d0c@patrick> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Patrick wrote: > I think I might could work on it on some of my free time, where can I find > what has been wrote up on it? > > Patrick - Great. Thanks. It's currently on my computer at home. I'll stick it in GNOME cvs this evening and let you have at it. Cheers, John From laszlo.kovacs@Sun.COM Wed Apr 11 09:33:09 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 248112DFCD for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.220.7]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01779 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sun.COM (trinian [129.156.238.31]) by ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id OAA16711 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:33:05 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:33:05 +0100 From: laszlo kovacs Organization: Sun Microsystems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.8 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Hello, It is quite important for me to have some kind of plan up to Gnome 2.0 about the documentation processing and display related issues. This is what I think is supposed to happen according to what has been discussed at GUADEC: 1. Move docs to XML from DocBook SGML (I am a bit lost between the acronyms and various types of SGML and XML, but I hope it is obvious what I am talking about). 2. Develop a new xml->html converter (instead of gnome-db2html2) based on libxml2 and libxslt. 3. Move Scrollkeeper to libxml2 and libxslt and do further development. 4. That's all I remember, note that I deliberately not mentioned documentation content related stuff (like how good the developer docs are etc). libxslt needs XML as input. I think we should have a plan for 1-3. My main problem is obviously 3. Technically Daniel's SGMLparser supplied for gnome-db2html2 (to turn the SGML stuff to valid XML) should be good for me to apply to docs and then implement all sorts of cool features with libxml2 and libxslt on top of it in Scrollkeeper. I looked into this and the SGML parser seems to have problems, one of the most important ones being that it does not resolve external entities (Laszlo assumes here that external entities are included SGML files in other SGML files). Considering that we move our docs to XML anyway soon and Sun's next official Gnome release will be 2.0 I really dont feel like trying to fix the SGML parser and then throw it out in a couple of weeks or months. Right now there are two people working on Scrollkeeper here, Mary Dwyer and myself. Mary works on index extraction, seach and integration of this in Nautilus. A couple of days ago we also got a large amount of Solaris specific Gnome work to do. If we can not work on Scrollkeeper then we have to move to the other projects and later on we will probably not be able to come back whenever we want. And we can not work on Scrollkeeper until the SGML docs are not turned to XML or the SGML parser is not fixed (although I dont think we should invest time in this as the docs will be turned to XML anyway). So the way how I see it we need the docs (or at least some of them) turned to XML in order to work. Probably some test XML docs only (not in the CVS) would help at the beginning. I think 1-3 could be done in parallel avoiding to put stuff in Gnome CVS if this is a problem at the beginning. Finally some questions related to 1-2. How difficult it is to turn DocBook SGML docs to XML? Is it automatic or it will be done by hand? Do we have any idea how to develop the libxslt based converter and who will do it? The libxslt library contains stylesheets to convert DocBook XML(?) to HTML, I dont know if these are good enough, but if they are then the new converter is very easy to implement (DV - any opinion?). I know that there are some releases up to 2.0 which might make planning difficult, but I dont know any dates about them. That's about it for the moment. Any thoughts? Laszlo From mva@df.lth.se Wed Apr 11 09:47:40 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from igloo.df.lth.se (igloo.df.lth.se [194.47.250.47]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 569402BDDA for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (mva@localhost) by igloo.df.lth.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17416; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:47:35 +0200 (MEST) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:47:35 +0200 (MEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Wahl=E9n?= To: laszlo kovacs Cc: Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc In-Reply-To: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues I am a complete newbee to this, so bare with me. > How difficult it is to turn DocBook SGML docs to XML? Is it automatic or > it will be done by hand? Do we have any idea how to develop the libxslt I belive that you can do that with Norman Walshes stylesheet? I will go and verify this but that would make it automatic (just run through jade). Martin From laszlo.kovacs@Sun.COM Wed Apr 11 09:50:44 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from patan.sun.com (patan.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9572BBF6 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.220.7]) by patan.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19664 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sun.COM (trinian [129.156.238.31]) by ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id OAA23750 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:50:41 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AD46131.95E6EA6@Sun.COM> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:50:41 +0100 From: laszlo kovacs Organization: Sun Microsystems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.8 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Martin Wahl=E9n wrote: > = > I am a complete newbee to this, so bare with me. > = > > How difficult it is to turn DocBook SGML docs to XML? Is it automatic= or > > it will be done by hand? Do we have any idea how to develop the libxs= lt > = > I belive that you can do that with Norman Walshes stylesheet? I will go= > and verify this but that would make it automatic (just run through jade= ). > = > Martin Where can I find this stylesheet? If this would work then we could create test data for Scrollkeeper and not be tied to the actual sgml->xml move to happen. Laszlo From aaron@ximian.com Wed Apr 11 10:01:33 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from trna.ximian.com (trna.ximian.com [141.154.95.22]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8143E2BBF6 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.10-124.ximian.priv (IDENT:imac@[192.168.10.124]) by trna.ximian.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20190; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:01:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc From: Aaron Weber To: laszlo kovacs Cc: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <3AD46131.95E6EA6@Sun.COM> References: <3AD46131.95E6EA6@Sun.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Evolution/0.10+cvs.2001.04.01.08.06 (Preview Release) Date: 11 Apr 2001 09:53:18 -0400 Message-Id: <986997198.8242.2.camel@gimlet.ximian.priv> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues I know that most of us have mostly been writing for ease of conversion-- all lowercase tags, etc. etc. So that it may even be possible to just change the DTD in some cases, and have it just work. You end up with content instead of content in your XML, but afaik that's still OK. a. On 11 Apr 2001 14:50:41 +0100, laszlo kovacs wrote: > Martin Wahlén wrote: > > > > I am a complete newbee to this, so bare with me. > > > > > How difficult it is to turn DocBook SGML docs to XML? Is it automatic or > > > it will be done by hand? Do we have any idea how to develop the libxslt > > > > I belive that you can do that with Norman Walshes stylesheet? I will go > > and verify this but that would make it automatic (just run through jade). > > > > Martin > > Where can I find this stylesheet? If this would work then we could > create test data for Scrollkeeper and not be tied to the actual > sgml->xml move to happen. > > Laszlo > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-doc-list mailing list > gnome-doc-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list -- This message written with Evolution, a nutritious part of the complete Ximian GNOME desktop. Join the Evolution: http://www.ximian.com From veillard@redhat.com Wed Apr 11 10:02:25 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (host154.207-175-42.redhat.com [207.175.42.154]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747C32BBF6 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:02:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from veillard@localhost) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23903; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:02:23 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:02:23 -0400 From: Daniel Veillard To: laszlo kovacs Cc: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Message-ID: <20010411100223.Y10153@imag.fr> Reply-To: veillard@redhat.com References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM>; from laszlo.kovacs@Sun.COM on Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 02:33:05PM +0100 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues > it in Scrollkeeper. I looked into this and the SGML parser seems to have > problems, one of the most important ones being that it does not resolve > external entities (Laszlo assumes here that external entities are > included SGML files in other SGML files). Should not be too hard to fix in my opinion. Entities decalrations are parsed, they should be registered. When an entity reference occurs a parser input is generated from the URI-Reference and pushed on the open entities stack and parsing continues. Not a big deal the XML parser does similar things already > Considering that we move our > docs to XML anyway soon and Sun's next official Gnome release will be > 2.0 I really dont feel like trying to fix the SGML parser and then throw > it out in a couple of weeks or months. Whatever the amount of work you want to put in it transition to XML will probably take more than that, > we want. And we can not work on Scrollkeeper until the SGML docs are not > turned to XML or the SGML parser is not fixed (although I dont think we > should invest time in this as the docs will be turned to XML anyway). So I tend to disagree a bit there, for purely practical matters > the way how I see it we need the docs (or at least some of them) turned > to XML in order to work. Probably some test XML docs only (not in the > CVS) would help at the beginning. I think 1-3 could be done in parallel > avoiding to put stuff in Gnome CVS if this is a problem at the > beginning. > > Finally some questions related to 1-2. > > How difficult it is to turn DocBook SGML docs to XML? Is it automatic or > it will be done by hand? Do we have any idea how to develop the libxslt > based converter and who will do it? I think it can be automated, I'm not sure people will like what it does to their document. > The libxslt library contains > stylesheets to convert DocBook XML(?) to HTML, I dont know if these are > good enough, but if they are then the new converter is very easy to > implement (DV - any opinion?). The KDE project is using libxslt to format their docbook docs. I think they just wrote an customization stylesheet on top of Norman Walsh default stylesheet. Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat Network http://redhat.com/products/network/ veillard@redhat.com | libxml Gnome XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ From laszlo.kovacs@Sun.COM Wed Apr 11 10:03:11 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from patan.sun.com (patan.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AEDD2BBF6 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.220.7]) by patan.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00098 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sun.COM (trinian [129.156.238.31]) by ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id PAA01225 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:03:09 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AD4641D.5B7B00DD@Sun.COM> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:03:09 +0100 From: Laszlo Kovacs Organization: Sun Microsystems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.8 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc References: <3AD46131.95E6EA6@Sun.COM> <986997198.8242.2.camel@gimlet.ximian.priv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Aaron Weber wrote: > > I know that most of us have mostly been writing for ease of conversion-- > all lowercase tags, etc. etc. So that it may even be possible to just > change the DTD in some cases, and have it just work. > > You end up with content instead of content in your > XML, but afaik that's still OK. > > a. I think this is what Daniel calls not complying with XML standards. If yes then this does not go through libxml2, I think. Laszlo From jfleck@swcp.com Wed Apr 11 10:11:04 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from swcp.com (unknown [216.184.13.137]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB2A32BBF6 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:11:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jfleck@localhost) by swcp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA13272 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:10:36 -0600 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:10:36 -0600 From: John Fleck To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Message-ID: <20010411081036.A701@inkstain.net> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM>; from laszlo kovacs on Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 02:33:05PM +0100 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 02:33:05PM +0100, laszlo kovacs wrote: > So > the way how I see it we need the docs (or at least some of them) turned > to XML in order to work. Probably some test XML docs only (not in the > CVS) would help at the beginning. I think 1-3 could be done in parallel > avoiding to put stuff in Gnome CVS if this is a problem at the > beginning. > I have a test kit of xml versions of docs I put together last year when we thought we would be converting to xml. I'll clean it up and get it posted so Laszlo and Mary have something to begin looking at right away while we discuss the rest of these details. Cheers, -- John Fleck jfleck@inkstain.net (h) jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ From veillard@redhat.com Wed Apr 11 10:28:14 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (host154.207-175-42.redhat.com [207.175.42.154]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C24812BBF6 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from veillard@localhost) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29531; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:28:11 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:28:11 -0400 From: Daniel Veillard To: Laszlo Kovacs Cc: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Message-ID: <20010411102811.Z10153@imag.fr> Reply-To: veillard@redhat.com References: <3AD46131.95E6EA6@Sun.COM> <986997198.8242.2.camel@gimlet.ximian.priv> <3AD4641D.5B7B00DD@Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3AD4641D.5B7B00DD@Sun.COM>; from laszlo.kovacs@Sun.COM on Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 03:03:09PM +0100 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 03:03:09PM +0100, Laszlo Kovacs wrote: > Aaron Weber wrote: > > > > I know that most of us have mostly been writing for ease of conversion-- > > all lowercase tags, etc. etc. So that it may even be possible to just > > change the DTD in some cases, and have it just work. > > > > You end up with content instead of content in your > > XML, but afaik that's still OK. > > > > a. > > I think this is what Daniel calls not complying with XML standards. If > yes then this does not go through libxml2, I think. hum, content is fine ... on the other hand content is not XML and should be preprocessed, but I doubt James Clark tools ever produced this ! Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat Network http://redhat.com/products/network/ veillard@redhat.com | libxml Gnome XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ From kirillov@peconic.math.sunysb.edu Wed Apr 11 11:00:23 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from peconic.math.sunysb.edu (mail.math.sunysb.edu [129.49.18.67]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706E02CF29 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from copiague.math.sunysb.edu (IDENT:root@copiague [129.49.18.192]) by peconic.math.sunysb.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26500 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:00:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kirillov@localhost) by copiague.math.sunysb.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03203 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:00:22 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:00:22 -0400 From: Alexander Kirillov To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Message-ID: <20010411110022.B3160@math.sunysb.edu> References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM>; from laszlo.kovacs@sun.com on Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 02:33:05PM +0100 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Converting the docs from SGML to XML is very easy if they were written according to our recommendations (i.e., lowercase tags, no tag minimisation, etc.) In this case, all you have to do is to change DTD and then deal with self-closing tags. This can be done by a simple script; in some cases, minor manual intervention will be required. Also, there are some minor differences between DocBook3.1 (which we are using, and which only has SGML version) and DocBook 4.1 (which is the latest one, and has SGML and XML versions - we'll be using the latter). Anyway, this is not a big deal - I could convert all my docs in a day. Laszlo, Daniel: how easy is (2)? Would it be possible to produce something working within the next month so that we could start playing with it? And yes, I quite agree that it makes little sense to invest any work on gnome-db2html2, or any other form of SGML parsing other than bug fixing - better concentrate on XML. My 2 kopecks. Sasha On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 02:33:05PM +0100, laszlo kovacs wrote: > Hello, > > It is quite important for me to have some kind of plan up to Gnome 2.0 > about the documentation processing and display related issues. > > This is what I think is supposed to happen according to what has been > discussed at GUADEC: > > 1. Move docs to XML from DocBook SGML (I am a bit lost between the > acronyms and various types of SGML and XML, but I hope it is obvious > what I am talking about). > > 2. Develop a new xml->html converter (instead of gnome-db2html2) based > on libxml2 and libxslt. > > 3. Move Scrollkeeper to libxml2 and libxslt and do further development. > > 4. That's all I remember, note that I deliberately not mentioned > documentation content related stuff (like how good the developer docs > are etc). > > libxslt needs XML as input. > > I think we should have a plan for 1-3. My main problem is obviously 3. > Technically Daniel's SGMLparser supplied for gnome-db2html2 (to turn the > SGML stuff to valid XML) should be good for me to apply to docs and then > implement all sorts of cool features with libxml2 and libxslt on top of > it in Scrollkeeper. I looked into this and the SGML parser seems to have > problems, one of the most important ones being that it does not resolve > external entities (Laszlo assumes here that external entities are > included SGML files in other SGML files). Considering that we move our > docs to XML anyway soon and Sun's next official Gnome release will be > 2.0 I really dont feel like trying to fix the SGML parser and then throw > it out in a couple of weeks or months. Right now there are two people > working on Scrollkeeper here, Mary Dwyer and myself. Mary works on index > extraction, seach and integration of this in Nautilus. A couple of days > ago we also got a large amount of Solaris specific Gnome work to do. If > we can not work on Scrollkeeper then we have to move to the other > projects and later on we will probably not be able to come back whenever > we want. And we can not work on Scrollkeeper until the SGML docs are not > turned to XML or the SGML parser is not fixed (although I dont think we > should invest time in this as the docs will be turned to XML anyway). So > the way how I see it we need the docs (or at least some of them) turned > to XML in order to work. Probably some test XML docs only (not in the > CVS) would help at the beginning. I think 1-3 could be done in parallel > avoiding to put stuff in Gnome CVS if this is a problem at the > beginning. > > Finally some questions related to 1-2. > > How difficult it is to turn DocBook SGML docs to XML? Is it automatic or > it will be done by hand? Do we have any idea how to develop the libxslt > based converter and who will do it? The libxslt library contains > stylesheets to convert DocBook XML(?) to HTML, I dont know if these are > good enough, but if they are then the new converter is very easy to > implement (DV - any opinion?). > > I know that there are some releases up to 2.0 which might make planning > difficult, but I dont know any dates about them. > > That's about it for the moment. > > Any thoughts? > > Laszlo > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-doc-list mailing list > gnome-doc-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list From jfleck@swcp.com Wed Apr 11 11:52:21 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from swcp.com (unknown [216.184.13.137]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28E72BA9A for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:52:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jfleck@localhost) by swcp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01331 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:51:54 -0600 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:51:54 -0600 From: John Fleck To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Message-ID: <20010411095154.A1282@inkstain.net> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM>; from laszlo kovacs on Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 02:33:05PM +0100 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 02:33:05PM +0100, laszlo kovacs wrote: > > 1. Move docs to XML from DocBook SGML (I am a bit lost between the > acronyms and various types of SGML and XML, but I hope it is obvious > what I am talking about). I agree with Sasha's point - this is straightforward to do once we make the decision to switch. I assume the various packages will create GNOME 2 branches, so we can leave the sgml on the old 1.x branch and begin to make GNOME 2 changes of this sort on the new branch. > > 2. Develop a new xml->html converter (instead of gnome-db2html2) based > on libxml2 and libxslt. > > 3. Move Scrollkeeper to libxml2 and libxslt and do further development. > So would this be the version of ScrollKeeeper that would release with GNOME 2, or do you plan to do an earlier release using libxml2? Does this also mean that the target for index support is GNOME 2? > Finally some questions related to 1-2. > > Do we have any idea how to develop the libxslt > based converter and who will do it? I will be happy to work on this - it ought to be straightforward - but we also need the assistance of a real hacker. :-) > > I know that there are some releases up to 2.0 which might make planning > difficult, but I dont know any dates about them. > Even if our current gnome-db2html2 is on life support, we need to have a hospice plan for making its last days as comfortable as possible, since it will be with us, it appears, until the release of GNOME 2. I have a number of rendering bug fixes already completed - just need to get them reviewed and checked in - and we still need to make a decision about whether to convert it to DV's sgml parser. I would like to see this happen if the entity difficulty Laszlo mentioned is solvable. Cheers, -- John Fleck jfleck@inkstain.net (h) jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ From dan@eazel.com Wed Apr 11 13:07:53 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from foodle.uchicago.edu (nsit-s227-94.uchicago.edu [128.135.227.94]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C67802CB10 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:07:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by foodle.uchicago.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3BH7oe08641; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:07:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: foodle.uchicago.edu: dan owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:07:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Dan Mueth X-Sender: dan@foodle.uchicago.edu To: "Christopher R. Gabriel" Cc: Chris Lyttle , GNOME Doc List Subject: Re: Concerning about gnome-users-guide In-Reply-To: <87r8yzo94w.fsf@softwarelibero.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Hi Christopher, [I hope you don't mind I'm cc'ing gnome-doc-list since this issue is of general interest and is likely to come up again in the future.] On 11 Apr 2001, Christopher R. Gabriel wrote: > Hi Dan, > > the 1.4 gnome users guide is a nice document, but I've a doubt about > it. The users guide include the nautilus user guide as-is as it comes > from the nautilus package. The Nautilus users guide provides a section > about the eazel services. Now, I think that would be bettere to have a > separate document for the eazel services, available from the nautilus > help menu, instead of having it inside the whole gnome users guide, > since the gnome users guide it's a gnome-related document and, in my > point of view, must not include commercial stuff/advertising. > > So, I suggests to have the eazel services doc removed from the > gnome-users-guide, providing it as a separate document from the > nautilus help menu or whatever. > > Comments? I completely agree. The GNOME User's Guide should just describe the core of GNOME itself. The Eazel services are not a core part of GNOME. Chris - could you comment out / remove the section of the User Guide that describes Eazel Services? It is: GNOME User's Guide -> Nautilus User Manual -> Eazel Services Thanks, Dan From dan@eazel.com Wed Apr 11 13:12:59 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from foodle.uchicago.edu (nsit-s227-94.uchicago.edu [128.135.227.94]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222D92E09B for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:12:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by foodle.uchicago.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3BHD7f08654; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:13:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: foodle.uchicago.edu: dan owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:13:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Dan Mueth X-Sender: dan@foodle.uchicago.edu To: Pat Costello Cc: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org, jfleck@swcp.com Subject: Re: [Scrollkeeper-devel] question re: marking index terms In-Reply-To: <200103290745.IAA00317@ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Pat Costello wrote: > All, > > I'm a real beginner with Scrollkeeper. I have very little idea how Scrollkeeper > is going to pull index detail out of a document. If Scrollkeeper uses ids, then > does that mean the ids appear in the index? Many ids are just not meaningful to > anyone but the original author. > > I have a series of questions about Scrollkeeper, so it probably wouldn't be a > good idea to discuss them all in mail. What I need is a succint document that > explains: > > - What Scrollkeeper is. > - What Scrollkeeper does. > - How Scrollkeeper works. > - What writers need to do to their documents to make sure Scrollkeeper works. > - What the role of the OMF file is for a) a whole book b) chapters in the book. > - How writers create the OMF file. > > Would such a document exist? I just realized that even though Laszlo was planning on answering Pat's questions in person since they work together, I should try to answer this on the list for anybody else's benefit. There is some documentation for SK: 1) the ScrollKeeper web page has a short blurb 2) the SK web page also has a design document describing in a slightly technical way how it works 3) in SK CVS, there is a module called "scrollkeeper_examples" which contains a directory called "scrollkeeper_example1" which illustrates how to set up a package to use scrollkeeper, has template files people can copy and use, and has a document explaining how it works 4) in GNOME CVS at gnome-docu/gdp/gdp-example1, there is a similar example package which does things in a more GNOME-centric fashion 5) in ScrollKeeper itself, there is a manual. This manual however is virtually empty and rather useless at this time. These answer most of the questions asked above. The video of the talk Laszlo and I gave at GUADEC would be a nice supplement to the example packages. Dan From mva@df.lth.se Wed Apr 11 13:43:19 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from igloo.df.lth.se (igloo.df.lth.se [194.47.250.47]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 441312BE1E for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (mva@localhost) by igloo.df.lth.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25252; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:43:08 +0200 (MEST) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:43:08 +0200 (MEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Wahl=E9n?= To: Dan Mueth Cc: Pat Costello , , Subject: Re: [Scrollkeeper-devel] question re: marking index terms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues > These answer most of the questions asked above. The video of the talk > Laszlo and I gave at GUADEC would be a nice supplement to the example > packages. I belive that the video should be available in a few days. Martin From rjp@mail.tele.dk Wed Apr 11 15:18:12 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from cicero0.cybercity.dk (cicero0.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.52]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFF132C8B4 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from usr04.cybercity.dk (usr04.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.36]) by cicero0.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D3BB102956; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:18:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from port9.cvx1-hb.ppp.cybercity.dk (IDENT:rjp@port9.cvx1-hb.ppp.cybercity.dk [212.242.232.10]) by usr04.cybercity.dk (8.11.2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3BJHjT31043; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:17:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from rjp@mail.tele.dk) Subject: Summary from Guadec From: Rebecca "J." Walter To: laszlo kovacs Cc: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Evolution/0.10+cvs.2001.04.09.08.06 (Preview Release) Date: 11 Apr 2001 21:17:43 +0200 Message-Id: <987016667.19906.3.camel@sol.s-d-s.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Uhm... Could someone send to the docs list a summary of the conclusions from the docs bof at GUADEC? I had to leave early because of my migraine and missed it. :-( Thanks! From rjp@mail.tele.dk Wed Apr 11 15:20:15 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from cicero1.cybercity.dk (cicero1.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.4]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685BF2BAC0 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from usr04.cybercity.dk (usr04.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.36]) by cicero1.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8673515FC22; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:20:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from port9.cvx1-hb.ppp.cybercity.dk (IDENT:rjp@port9.cvx1-hb.ppp.cybercity.dk [212.242.232.10]) by usr04.cybercity.dk (8.11.2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3BJJnT31531; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:19:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from rjp@mail.tele.dk) Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc From: Rebecca "J." Walter To: Aaron Weber Cc: laszlo kovacs , gnome-doc-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <986997198.8242.2.camel@gimlet.ximian.priv> References: <3AD46131.95E6EA6@Sun.COM> <986997198.8242.2.camel@gimlet.ximian.priv> Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Evolution/0.10+cvs.2001.04.09.08.06 (Preview Release) Date: 11 Apr 2001 21:19:47 +0200 Message-Id: <987016787.19904.4.camel@sol.s-d-s.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On 11 Apr 2001 09:53:18 -0400, Aaron Weber wrote: > I know that most of us have mostly been writing for ease of conversion-- > all lowercase tags, etc. etc. So that it may even be possible to just > change the DTD in some cases, and have it just work. > > You end up with content instead of content in your > XML, but afaik that's still OK. most of us have been writing that way all along. :-P From laszlo.kovacs@sun.com Wed Apr 11 16:30:31 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA6432BAC0 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.220.7]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26313 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sun.com (dbl-isdn-107 [129.156.227.107]) by ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id VAA06042 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:30:27 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AD4BE0A.A8E87AF6@sun.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:26:50 +0100 From: Laszlo Kovacs X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0smp i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> <20010411110022.B3160@math.sunysb.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues > Laszlo, Daniel: how easy is (2)? Would it be possible to produce > something working within the next month so that we could start playing > with it? I think Daniel should reply to this one. I already mentioned that there are stylesheets to convert DocBook XML. I dont know how good they are and I dont know how much of the job is done right now by libxslt. > And yes, I quite agree that it makes little sense to invest any > work on gnome-db2html2, or any other form of SGML parsing other than > bug fixing - better concentrate on XML. Agreed. Laszlo From chris@wilddev.net Wed Apr 11 18:23:20 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from hub.wilddev.net (hub.wilddev.net [216.86.200.162]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE13C2DDDD for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by hub.wilddev.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05370; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:33:55 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:33:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Lyttle To: Dan Mueth Cc: "Christopher R. Gabriel" , GNOME Doc List Subject: Re: Concerning about gnome-users-guide In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Oops, Thats one I missed (obviously) when trying to weed out the commercial stuff from the guide. There's a couple of other things I'm going to be updating from the UG so I'll probably do those to. I'm not sure how we handle distributing it once the changes are made so I'll just go ahead and do it, get with Dan and coordinate a release of some sort. Chris On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Dan Mueth wrote: > > Hi Christopher, > > [I hope you don't mind I'm cc'ing gnome-doc-list since this issue is of > general interest and is likely to come up again in the future.] > > On 11 Apr 2001, Christopher R. Gabriel wrote: > > > Hi Dan, > > > > the 1.4 gnome users guide is a nice document, but I've a doubt about > > it. The users guide include the nautilus user guide as-is as it comes > > from the nautilus package. The Nautilus users guide provides a section > > about the eazel services. Now, I think that would be bettere to have a > > separate document for the eazel services, available from the nautilus > > help menu, instead of having it inside the whole gnome users guide, > > since the gnome users guide it's a gnome-related document and, in my > > point of view, must not include commercial stuff/advertising. > > > > So, I suggests to have the eazel services doc removed from the > > gnome-users-guide, providing it as a separate document from the > > nautilus help menu or whatever. > > > > Comments? > > I completely agree. The GNOME User's Guide should just describe the core > of GNOME itself. The Eazel services are not a core part of GNOME. > > Chris - could you comment out / remove the section of the User Guide that > describes Eazel Services? It is: > GNOME User's Guide -> Nautilus User Manual -> Eazel Services > > Thanks, > > Dan > > > > From veillard@redhat.com Thu Apr 12 05:25:02 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (host154.207-175-42.redhat.com [207.175.42.154]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC4582D169 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 05:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from veillard@localhost) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA16402; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 05:25:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 05:25:00 -0400 From: Daniel Veillard To: Laszlo Kovacs Cc: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Message-ID: <20010412052500.H10153@imag.fr> Reply-To: veillard@redhat.com References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> <20010411110022.B3160@math.sunysb.edu> <3AD4BE0A.A8E87AF6@sun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3AD4BE0A.A8E87AF6@sun.com>; from laszlo.kovacs@sun.com on Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 09:26:50PM +0100 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 09:26:50PM +0100, Laszlo Kovacs wrote: > > Laszlo, Daniel: how easy is (2)? Would it be possible to produce > > something working within the next month so that we could start playing > > with it? > I think Daniel should reply to this one. I already mentioned that there > are stylesheets to convert DocBook XML. I dont know how good they are > and I dont know how much of the job is done right now by libxslt. Well I have DocBook XML to HTML processing as part of libxslt regression tests, and the KDE guys are using it now in their CVS version of their upcoming 2.2 release, so basically I think: - the rough edges have been removed - there might be a few bugs left but I can catch them, and other people are interested in debugging libxslt if needed The things which need specific focus are: 1/ how do we store the XML Docbook DtD and XSL stylesheet (the bulk of it should be shared with the KDE guys IMHO). 2/ add a catalog support to the XSLT command line or library so that formating docs don't go to the network to ftech those. 3/ customize if needed the default XSLT stylesheets from Norman Walsh to give a Gnome look and feel (since XSLt has an import mechanism this can still be done while sharing 95% of the default stylesheets) 1/ should be discussed with KDE, and distributors, I wonder if there is a provision for this in the filesystem standard, I think there is one for SGML, we should imitate it for XML 2/ is relatively simple since libxml has all the APIs needed to do that easilly, the main question is how to handle misses from the catalog, i.e. should we end-up fetching missing entities from the network, an if yes should we try to store it in a user defined place or somewhere in /var ? 3/ I dunno what will be needed specifically. Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat Network http://redhat.com/products/network/ veillard@redhat.com | libxml Gnome XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ From mva@df.lth.se Thu Apr 12 05:39:57 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from igloo.df.lth.se (igloo.df.lth.se [194.47.250.47]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4418A2CC63 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 05:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (mva@localhost) by igloo.df.lth.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29348; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:39:44 +0200 (MEST) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:39:44 +0200 (MEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Wahl=E9n?= To: Daniel Veillard Cc: Laszlo Kovacs , Lauri Watts , Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc In-Reply-To: <20010412052500.H10153@imag.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues > Well I have DocBook XML to HTML processing as part of libxslt regression > tests, and the KDE guys are using it now in their CVS version of their > upcoming 2.2 release, so basically I think: > - the rough edges have been removed > - there might be a few bugs left but I can catch them, and other > people are interested in debugging libxslt if needed > > The things which need specific focus are: > 1/ how do we store the XML Docbook DtD and XSL stylesheet (the bulk > of it should be shared with the KDE guys IMHO). And the FreeBSD guys, I guess that this is something that everyone needs too deal with when they move from SGML DocBook to XML DocBook. I got an email from the KDE guys that were at GUADEC a few days ago saying that we should talk to Lauri about the docsstuff. Martin From miguel@erandi.helixcode.com Thu Apr 12 12:06:36 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from erandi.helixcode.com (erandi.ximian.com [141.154.95.33]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B7F2E293; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:06:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by erandi.helixcode.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19873; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:04:40 -0400 To: Dan Mueth Cc: GNOME Hackers , GNOME Doc List Subject: Re: GNOME Developer Documentation References: From: Miguel de Icaza Date: 12 Apr 2001 12:04:40 -0400 In-Reply-To: Dan Mueth's message of "Mon, 9 Apr 2001 23:13:11 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Dan, I loved your outline for improving the GNOME documentation. Something that we need to do though is to improve the Docbook stylesheets we are using for the HTML generated pages, because they are really bad. For the native case (reading Docbook or Docbook/XML and doing smart things with it, like doing contextual help in an IDE) I think we are pretty much on track (modulo cross references, but I know nothing about this, so I better shut up about now) I am not sure I can constructively come up right now with what is wrong with them, but they do look very ugly and they are hard to navigate (I have never actually liked the many subdivision of pages that there is, and the prev/next stuff nor the default colors we are getting from Gtk-Doc manuals). From gleblanc@cu-portland.edu Thu Apr 12 18:16:45 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from email.cu-portland.edu (email.cu-portland.edu [207.149.56.67]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085652BBD4 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from grego1.cu-portland.edu (207.149.56.153 [207.149.56.153]) by email.cu-portland.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id G70Q45XK; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:16:44 -0700 Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc From: Gregory Leblanc To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Evolution/0.10+cvs.2001.04.11.08.00 (Preview Release) Date: 12 Apr 2001 15:12:18 -0700 Message-Id: <987113542.16218.0.camel@grego1.cu-portland.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues I'm going to try to reply just once, and catch most of the things that I need to reply to, so bear with me if things get a little jumbled. We can split out to other threads if there's a lot of discussion on any of these topics, but I don't really think there's that much to talk about. On 11 Apr 2001 14:33:05 +0100, laszlo kovacs wrote: > Hello, > > It is quite important for me to have some kind of plan up to Gnome 2.0 > about the documentation processing and display related issues. > > This is what I think is supposed to happen according to what has been > discussed at GUADEC: > > 1. Move docs to XML from DocBook SGML (I am a bit lost between the > acronyms and various types of SGML and XML, but I hope it is obvious > what I am talking about). Right, current docs are written in DocBook SGML. For the next release, docs will be written using DocBook XML. Same language, -very- slightly different syntax, at least the way that we use it. > 2. Develop a new xml->html converter (instead of gnome-db2html2) based > on libxml2 and libxslt. This is already done, mostly. Norman Walsh has written some DocBook XSL stylesheets to transform DocBook XML into HTML. We'll need a few customizations to this, but it should be straight forward. > libxslt needs XML as input. > > I think we should have a plan for 1-3. My main problem is obviously 3. > Technically Daniel's SGMLparser supplied for gnome-db2html2 (to turn the > SGML stuff to valid XML) should be good for me to apply to docs and then > implement all sorts of cool features with libxml2 and libxslt on top of > it in Scrollkeeper. I looked into this and the SGML parser seems to have > problems, one of the most important ones being that it does not resolve > external entities (Laszlo assumes here that external entities are > included SGML files in other SGML files). Considering that we move our > docs to XML anyway soon and Sun's next official Gnome release will be > 2.0 I really dont feel like trying to fix the SGML parser and then throw > it out in a couple of weeks or months. Right now there are two people My 0.02 DKK are that we should fix the DocBook parser, at the very least for ScrollKeeper, since that is not GNOME specific. We'll want to be able use sk with, for example, LDP or FreeBSD DocBook SGML docs. I don't know how to go about rendering DocBook SGML docs, other than the hack(s) that we currently have, so perhaps we'll just have to rely on people to ship HTML versions of their docs if they're using SGML. > How difficult it is to turn DocBook SGML docs to XML? Is it automatic or Trivial for GNOME, since we've all been following the recomendation in the Handbook (right?). > it will be done by hand? Do we have any idea how to develop the libxslt It's really just a matter of changing the DTD, updating the header (articleinfo changed between 3.x and 4.x of DocBook), and checking that all tags are closed. So, I guess some by hand, and some automatically. > based converter and who will do it? The libxslt library contains Norm Walsh has already written the converter, we'll just need to customize it a little. I don't know who'll do that (I would really like to, but I'm sort of busy at the moment). On 12 Apr 2001 05:25:00 -0400, Daniel Veillard wrote: > The things which need specific focus are: > 1/ how do we store the XML Docbook DtD and XSL stylesheet (the bulk > of it should be shared with the KDE guys IMHO). This isn't a GNOME issue, is it? We shouldn't need to ship the DocBook DTD, nor the base stylesheets. We -DO- need to ship our customized stylseheet. > 2/ add a catalog support to the XSLT command line or library so > that formating docs don't go to the network to ftech those. Erp, yes, that would be really nice. One of these days I'm going to figure out why the flame XML requires a URI instead of being able to work with FPIs properly. > 3/ customize if needed the default XSLT stylesheets from Norman Walsh > to give a Gnome look and feel (since XSLt has an import mechanism > this can still be done while sharing 95% of the default > stylesheets) Yeah, this is definately one that we need to do, although it's a "programming" project which we can take a few months on. As soon as I get my other project under way, I want to do this, unless somebody beats me to it. (not that I'll complain, I'll just have to find another excuse to learn XSL). Ok, I think that's enough out of me, anybody know anything that I've neglected to mention here? Greg From jfleck@swcp.com Thu Apr 12 22:13:17 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from swcp.com (unknown [216.184.13.137]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B88C2BE06 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jfleck@localhost) by swcp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00774 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:12:49 -0600 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:12:49 -0600 From: John Fleck To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Message-ID: <20010412201249.B751@inkstain.net> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> <987113542.16218.0.camel@grego1.cu-portland.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <987113542.16218.0.camel@grego1.cu-portland.edu>; from Gregory Leblanc on Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 03:12:18PM -0700 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 03:12:18PM -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > > The things which need specific focus are: > > 1/ how do we store the XML Docbook DtD and XSL stylesheet (the bulk > > of it should be shared with the KDE guys IMHO). > > This isn't a GNOME issue, is it? We shouldn't need to ship the DocBook > DTD, nor the base stylesheets. We -DO- need to ship our customized > stylseheet. > We definitely need to ship the DTD and stylesheet. Resolving it over the 'net is way slower and some people won't have net connections. So we need to figure out where to put 'em - and putting 'em the same place as the KDE folks put 'em would make users' lives easier. -- John Fleck jfleck@inkstain.net (h) jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ From gleblanc@cu-portland.edu Thu Apr 12 22:41:02 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from mail3.aracnet.com (mail3.aracnet.com [216.99.193.38]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B4112BCA3 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peecee.linuxweasel.com (216-99-218-48.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.48]) by mail3.aracnet.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3D2eww23359; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:40:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc From: Gregory Leblanc To: John Fleck Cc: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <20010412201249.B751@inkstain.net> References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> <987113542.16218.0.camel@grego1.cu-portland.edu> <20010412201249.B751@inkstain.net> Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Evolution/0.10 (Preview Release) Date: 12 Apr 2001 19:38:35 -0700 Message-Id: <987129516.19687.0.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On 12 Apr 2001 20:12:49 -0600, John Fleck wrote: > On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 03:12:18PM -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > > > > The things which need specific focus are: > > > 1/ how do we store the XML Docbook DtD and XSL stylesheet (the bulk > > > of it should be shared with the KDE guys IMHO). > > > > This isn't a GNOME issue, is it? We shouldn't need to ship the DocBook > > DTD, nor the base stylesheets. We -DO- need to ship our customized > > stylseheet. > > > > We definitely need to ship the DTD and stylesheet. Resolving it over Sorry, but no, WE don't need to ship either of these. They need to be shipped, just not by the GDP. > the 'net is way slower and some people won't have net connections. So > we need to figure out where to put 'em - and putting 'em the same > place as the KDE folks put 'em would make users' lives easier. We don't need to figure this out, the LSB has done so for us. XML is a subset of SGML, so things should go into the filesystem where specified in the LSB standard that was announced a bit ago. I'm sure the URL is in the archives someplace... Greg From jfleck@swcp.com Thu Apr 12 23:12:15 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from swcp.com (unknown [216.184.13.137]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 705D72BCA3 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jfleck@localhost) by swcp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00917 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:11:47 -0600 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:11:47 -0600 From: John Fleck To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Message-ID: <20010412211147.C751@inkstain.net> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM>; from laszlo kovacs on Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 02:33:05PM +0100 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 02:33:05PM +0100, laszlo kovacs wrote: > So > the way how I see it we need the docs (or at least some of them) turned > to XML in order to work. Probably some test XML docs only (not in the > CVS) would help at the beginning. I've put together xml versions of a few of our docs for Mary and Laszlo's testing. (Laszlo - this is a cleaned up version of the stuff I pointed you to on irc yesterday). It includes an xml version of panel.xml, which has index tagging, so Mary has something to look at. http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/xmlkit.tar.gz Cheers, -- John Fleck jfleck@inkstain.net (h) jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ From jfleck@swcp.com Thu Apr 12 23:16:59 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from swcp.com (unknown [216.184.13.137]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DE8E2E1A3 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jfleck@localhost) by swcp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00927 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:16:31 -0600 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:16:31 -0600 From: John Fleck To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Message-ID: <20010412211631.D751@inkstain.net> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> <987113542.16218.0.camel@grego1.cu-portland.edu> <20010412201249.B751@inkstain.net> <987129516.19687.0.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <987129516.19687.0.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com>; from Gregory Leblanc on Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 07:38:35PM -0700 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 07:38:35PM -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > > So > > we need to figure out where to put 'em - and putting 'em the same > > place as the KDE folks put 'em would make users' lives easier. > > We don't need to figure this out, the LSB has done so for us. XML is a > subset of SGML, so things should go into the filesystem where specified > in the LSB standard that was announced a bit ago. I'm sure the URL is > in the archives someplace... > But of course! http://www.linuxbase.org/spec/gLSB/gLSB/toclsbsgml.html -- John Fleck jfleck@inkstain.net (h) jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ From jfleck@swcp.com Thu Apr 12 23:32:18 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from swcp.com (unknown [216.184.13.137]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 601F22BE08 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jfleck@localhost) by swcp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00970 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:31:50 -0600 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:31:50 -0600 From: John Fleck To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Message-ID: <20010412213150.E751@inkstain.net> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> <987113542.16218.0.camel@grego1.cu-portland.edu> <20010412201249.B751@inkstain.net> <987129516.19687.0.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <987129516.19687.0.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com>; from Gregory Leblanc on Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 07:38:35PM -0700 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 07:38:35PM -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > > > > We definitely need to ship the DTD and stylesheet. Resolving it over > > Sorry, but no, WE don't need to ship either of these. They need to be > shipped, just not by the GDP. > So you're saying a DocBook package that includes these should be a requirement for the GNOME help browser? (Actually, I know you're saying that, 'cause you just 'splained it to me on IRC, but I figured others might want to share in our little chat.) Cheers, -- John Fleck jfleck@inkstain.net (h) jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ From cgabriel@softwarelibero.org Fri Apr 13 07:13:02 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from softwarelibero.org (unknown [62.122.71.234]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FFE62D2DB for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 07:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by softwarelibero.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AC689360DC; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:12:09 +0200 (CEST) To: Dan Mueth Cc: Chris Lyttle , GNOME Doc List Subject: Re: Concerning about gnome-users-guide References: From: cgabriel@softwarelibero.org (Christopher R. Gabriel) Date: 13 Apr 2001 13:12:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: Dan Mueth's message of "Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:07:50 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87k84pdpfa.fsf@softwarelibero.org> Lines: 49 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Dan> Hi Christopher, Dan> [I hope you don't mind I'm cc'ing gnome-doc-list since this Dan> issue is of general interest and is likely to come up again Dan> in the future.] Any problem. >> Hi Dan, >> >> the 1.4 gnome users guide is a nice document, but I've a doubt >> about it. The users guide include the nautilus user guide as-is >> as it comes from the nautilus package. The Nautilus users guide >> provides a section about the eazel services. Now, I think that >> would be bettere to have a separate document for the eazel >> services, available from the nautilus help menu, instead of >> having it inside the whole gnome users guide, since the gnome >> users guide it's a gnome-related document and, in my point of >> view, must not include commercial stuff/advertising. >> >> So, I suggests to have the eazel services doc removed from the >> gnome-users-guide, providing it as a separate document from the >> nautilus help menu or whatever. >> >> Comments? Dan> I completely agree. The GNOME User's Guide should just Dan> describe the core of GNOME itself. The Eazel services are Dan> not a core part of GNOME. I suggests you also to split the nautilus users guide into 2 separate things, the guide itself and the services guide, and have in Nautilus a menu item like "about eazel services" or whatever. Perhaps this item can hide if nautilus is not configured with --enable-eazel-services. Dan> Chris - could you comment out / remove the section of the Dan> User Guide that describes Eazel Services? It is: GNOME Dan> User's Guide -> Nautilus User Manual -> Eazel Services I suppose that 'Chris' is Chris Lyttle, so I'm going to remove the eazel stuff just from the italian translation of the UG. -- Christopher R. Gabriel www.linux.it/~cgabriel/ - persone.softwarelibero.org/person/cgabriel When I'm good I'm really good, when I'm bad.. I'm better. From dan@eazel.com Fri Apr 13 10:45:45 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from relay1-us.simplemente.net (relay1-us.simplemente.net [216.167.121.82]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2DE72E291 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from foodle.uchicago.edu (nsit-s229-67.uchicago.edu [128.135.229.67]) by relay1-us.simplemente.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C606D7824 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by foodle.uchicago.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3DEj1827056; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:45:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: foodle.uchicago.edu: dan owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:45:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Dan Mueth X-Sender: dan@foodle.uchicago.edu To: "Christopher R. Gabriel" Cc: Chris Lyttle , GNOME Doc List Subject: Re: Concerning about gnome-users-guide In-Reply-To: <87k84pdpfa.fsf@softwarelibero.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On 13 Apr 2001, Christopher R. Gabriel wrote: > I suggests you also to split the nautilus users guide into 2 separate > things, the guide itself and the services guide, and have in Nautilus > a menu item like "about eazel services" or whatever. Perhaps this item > can hide if nautilus is not configured with > --enable-eazel-services. Great idea. It is on my TODO list :) Dan From veillard@redhat.com Mon Apr 16 14:38:19 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (host154.207-175-42.redhat.com [207.175.42.154]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B152E2BA83 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from veillard@localhost) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23881; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:38:18 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:38:13 -0400 From: Daniel Veillard To: Gregory Leblanc Cc: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Message-ID: <20010416143813.H29967@imag.fr> Reply-To: veillard@redhat.com References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> <987113542.16218.0.camel@grego1.cu-portland.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <987113542.16218.0.camel@grego1.cu-portland.edu>; from gleblanc@cu-portland.edu on Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 03:12:18PM -0700 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 03:12:18PM -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: [Removed a bunch of stuff I agree with ] > On 12 Apr 2001 05:25:00 -0400, Daniel Veillard wrote: > > The things which need specific focus are: > > 1/ how do we store the XML Docbook DtD and XSL stylesheet (the bulk > > of it should be shared with the KDE guys IMHO). > > This isn't a GNOME issue, is it? We shouldn't need to ship the DocBook > DTD, nor the base stylesheets. We -DO- need to ship our customized > stylseheet. right we need to push this forward at the distro level, and sync with at least KDE on the matter ... > > 2/ add a catalog support to the XSLT command line or library so > > that formating docs don't go to the network to ftech those. > > Erp, yes, that would be really nice. One of these days I'm going to > figure out why the flame XML requires a URI instead of being able to > work with FPIs properly. because URI scales and can be uniquely designed without hitting a single registry bottelneck (it uses the DNS one's) > > 3/ customize if needed the default XSLT stylesheets from Norman Walsh > > to give a Gnome look and feel (since XSLt has an import mechanism > > this can still be done while sharing 95% of the default > > stylesheets) > > Yeah, this is definately one that we need to do, although it's a > "programming" project which we can take a few months on. As soon as I > get my other project under way, I want to do this, unless somebody beats > me to it. (not that I'll complain, I'll just have to find another > excuse to learn XSL). I received KDE's package of stylesheet, maybe I can dig it out to provide it as an input, > Ok, I think that's enough out of me, anybody know anything that I've > neglected to mention here? Time needed to do it :-), the harder is synchronization issues (with KDE, with distros, etc ...) Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat Network http://redhat.com/products/network/ veillard@redhat.com | libxml Gnome XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ From jfleck@swcp.com Tue Apr 17 23:17:05 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from swcp.com (unknown [216.184.13.137]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7992CE45 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:17:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jfleck@localhost) by swcp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00846 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:16:36 -0600 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:16:36 -0600 From: John Fleck To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Move to XML, new converter to HTML etc Message-ID: <20010417211636.C718@inkstain.net> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org References: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3AD45D11.FCCF7872@Sun.COM>; from laszlo kovacs on Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 02:33:05PM +0100 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 02:33:05PM +0100, laszlo kovacs wrote: > Hello, > > It is quite important for me to have some kind of plan up to Gnome 2.0 > about the documentation processing and display related issues. > [snip] > > 2. Develop a new xml->html converter (instead of gnome-db2html2) based > on libxml2 and libxslt. > FYI, I've started a Nautilus bugzilla item on this element: http://bugzilla.eazel.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8088 Cheers, -- John Fleck jfleck@inkstain.net (h) jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ From david@lupercalia.net Thu Apr 19 11:50:52 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from mail5.speakeasy.net (mail5.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.205]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 766082DD58 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15464 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2001 15:50:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lupercalia.net) ([64.81.210.227]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 19 Apr 2001 15:50:44 -0000 Received: (from david@localhost) by lupercalia.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) id LAA13663 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:50:22 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:50:22 -0400 From: David Merrill To: gnome-doc-list Subject: docbook processor Message-ID: <20010419115022.X12665@lupercalia.net> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-doc-list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Greetings, I've been running a docbook processor for the LDP for a bit now, and I want to offer it to you also now that it has shown itself pretty stable. It works like this: Send a docbook sgml file (.sgml extension, please) to docbook@lupercalia.net as a mime attachment. My machine will extract the sgml file and run db2html on it (along with some other stuff such as lynx --dump, nsgmls, etc.) and send you back a URL to download an html file and a .tar file containing more .html files. You get the idea. It may need some tweaking to work for Gnome docs; I dunno. But give it a try. Regards, -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Finger me for my public key Computers are unreliable, but humans are even more unreliable. Any system which depends on human reliability is unreliable. -- Gilb From jfleck@swcp.com Fri Apr 20 23:01:58 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from swcp.com (unknown [216.184.13.137]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECFEF2BB95 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jfleck@localhost) by swcp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00947 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:01:30 -0600 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:01:30 -0600 From: John Fleck To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: xml->html translation Message-ID: <20010420210130.A930@inkstain.net> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Folks - Per the discussion of a week ago on this list and a lot of back and forth on irc over the last several days, I've started work on the xml->html translator that will generate our docs in Nautilus. We still need a volunteer with some xsl expertise to handle the stylesheet cusomization. Norm Walsh's DocBook xsl stylesheets will do most of the heavy lifting, but we will need some customization to meet our needs. Any takers? -- John Fleck jfleck@inkstain.net (h) jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ From kirillov@math.sunysb.edu Mon Apr 23 12:38:13 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from peconic.math.sunysb.edu (mail.math.sunysb.edu [129.49.18.67]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F94D2BD56 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from copiague.math.sunysb.edu (IDENT:root@copiague [129.49.18.192]) by peconic.math.sunysb.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25621 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kirillov@localhost) by copiague.math.sunysb.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19780; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:38:12 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:38:12 -0400 Message-Id: <200104231638.MAA19780@copiague.math.sunysb.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: copiague.math.sunysb.edu: kirillov set sender to kirillov@math.sunysb.edu using -f From: Alexander Kirillov To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: new templates and "gnome-feedback" Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Hi all: following discussion we had here some time ago, I wrote a separate doc "Reporting GNOME bugs and other feedback", and Dan put it in gnome-core, so starting with the next release of gnome-core you can refer to this doc (using URL gnome-help:gnome-feedback) instead of previous bug-submission instructions. Should make it easier to change when (God forbid) bug database is moved, and for ditribution packagers who may want to replace it with their own support info. I updated gnome-app-template to show how it should be done; I also changed somewhat part and, following suggestion of jfleck, added lang attribute. Please take a look - and update your docs when you have time. I didn't change applet templates yet - Telsa, jfleck: should I do it or you would rather do it yourself? By the way: it would be nice if all people responsible for docs took time to make sure that the corresponding entries in DocTable (http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gdp/doctable/) are up to date; some of them seem to be terribly outdated. Best, Sasha From jfleck@swcp.com Mon Apr 23 21:59:54 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from swcp.com (unknown [216.184.13.137]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6FF92E127 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:59:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jfleck@localhost) by swcp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00853 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:59:25 -0600 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:59:25 -0600 From: John Fleck To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: new templates and "gnome-feedback" Message-ID: <20010423195925.B763@inkstain.net> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org References: <200104231638.MAA19780@copiague.math.sunysb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200104231638.MAA19780@copiague.math.sunysb.edu>; from Alexander Kirillov on Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 12:38:12PM -0400 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Sasha - Thanks for doing this. On Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 12:38:12PM -0400, Alexander Kirillov wrote: > when you have time. I didn't change applet templates yet - Telsa, > jfleck: should I do it or you would rather do it yourself? > I'm pretty busy. If you have time go ahead. I also need to make some xml versions of these for testing purposes. Should I go ahead and put 'em in cvs? Cheers, -- John Fleck jfleck@inkstain.net (h) jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ From jfleck@swcp.com Tue Apr 24 11:12:08 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from swcp.com (unknown [216.184.13.137]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A862DC1F for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jfleck@localhost) by swcp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00900 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:11:38 -0600 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:11:38 -0600 From: John Fleck To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: gnome-db2html3 design questions Message-ID: <20010424091138.D585@inkstain.net> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Folks - I originally posted this to the gnome-help-system list, but since some of the people who might be interested in the discussion are not signed up to that list, and there is some brokenness to the list that makes tit impossible to sign up new list members, it seems appropriate to repost here. We need to make some design decisions about the new xml->html help rendering system. I've never done anything like this before, so I need some help. I've got a rough version of gnome-db2html3 done, which takes as its input "filename?sectid" and outputs html, duplicating gnome-db2html2's behavior. For now, I'm using Norman Walsh's XSL DocBook stylesheets, but we will add a GNOME customization layer. questions: 1) Should we create a dependency on an external DocBook package for installation of the dtd or install our own? a) If we create a dependency on an external DocBook package, how do we determine where it is installed? Catalogs are an option, but libxml does not support them, so we would have to write our own catalog support into gnome-db2html3. DV assures me this is easy. I have not yet looked into doing it, and nothing is easy for me. :-) b) If we install our own, where should we put it? The LSB has a proposed location: /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xml-dtd-4.1.2/ (http://www.linuxbase.org/spec/gLSB/gLSB/sgmlr002.html) 2) Same question for the xsl - do we install our own copy of Norman Walsh's stylesheets or depend on an external package? a) Again, if we create a dependency, how do we determine where it is installed? b) If we install our own, where should we put it? The LSB has a proposed answer: /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xsl-stylesheets-1.12/ 3) If we install our own stuff, what effect would use of LSB file locations have on non-Linux systems? How do we do this in a way that will work for them? Cheers, -- John Fleck jfleck@inkstain.net (h) jfleck@abqjournal.com (w) http://www.abqjournal.com/scitech/ http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/ From veillard@redhat.com Tue Apr 24 12:44:20 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (host154.207-175-42.redhat.com [207.175.42.154]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B892DC5C for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from veillard@localhost) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13631 for gnome-doc-list@gnome.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:44:18 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:44:18 -0400 From: Daniel Veillard To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: gnome-db2html3 design questions Message-ID: <20010424124418.L22329@imag.fr> Reply-To: veillard@redhat.com References: <20010424091138.D585@inkstain.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010424091138.D585@inkstain.net>; from jfleck@inkstain.net on Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 09:11:38AM -0600 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues > For now, I'm using Norman Walsh's XSL DocBook stylesheets, > but we will add a GNOME customization layer. > > questions: > > 1) Should we create a dependency on an external DocBook package for > installation of the dtd or install our own? > > a) If we create a dependency on an external DocBook package, how do we > determine where it is installed? Catalogs are an option, but libxml > does not support them, so we would have to write our own catalog > support into gnome-db2html3. DV assures me this is easy. I have not > yet looked into doing it, and nothing is easy for me. :-) Well i have looked at the way it's done on Red Hat 7.1 There is a DocBook package for the XML Dtds : docbook-dtd41-xml stored in /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xml-dtd-4.1 with an SGML like catalog Implementing support for SGML catalogs in libxml could be done fairly easilly maybe I can work on this. > b) If we install our own, where should we put it? The LSB has a > proposed location: /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xml-dtd-4.1.2/ > (http://www.linuxbase.org/spec/gLSB/gLSB/sgmlr002.html) I personally find this stupid because it ought to be under /usr/share/xml/docbook/... But should be done once we have a standardized XML catalog format (there is a few proposal but not one single has emerged yet). > 2) Same question for the xsl - do we install our own copy of Norman > Walsh's stylesheets or depend on an external package? > > a) Again, if we create a dependency, how do we determine where it is > installed? it's a good question :-) Actually from the document you can get the PUBLIC DTD identifier, getting from there to a predefined DTD location for this ID is a simple association to maintain. > b) If we install our own, where should we put it? The LSB has > a proposed answer: /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xsl-stylesheets-1.12/ possibly same feeling on my part. > 3) If we install our own stuff, what effect would use of LSB file > locations have on non-Linux systems? How do we do this in a way that > will work for them? I suggest to follow the LSB proposal and use an SGML catalog for DTD, until we get something defined specifically for XML. For the stylesheet, I suggest using a DTD PUBLIC ID <-> XSL set of predefined relation, noting that there is a standard mechanism for associating a stylesheet which would be to add http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-stylesheet/ But I don't suggest to use it in this case. Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat Network http://redhat.com/products/network/ veillard@redhat.com | libxml Gnome XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ From Mary.Dwyer@Sun.COM Wed Apr 25 05:32:49 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F4C2C98A for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 05:32:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.220.7]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA24948; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 02:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from legion (legion [129.156.238.39]) by ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with SMTP id KAA09346; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:32:45 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <200104250932.KAA09346@ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:29:52 +0100 (BST) From: Mary Dwyer Reply-To: Mary Dwyer Subject: structure of extracted index page To: scrollkeeper-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, gnome-doc-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: TMOLkQ5DRcoeTXc+tdLQ2g== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.4 SunOS 5.8 sun4u sparc Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues hi I'd appreciate some feedback/suggestions on the structure of the index scrollkeeper will create from a document. To aid explanation, consider a document including the following index markups: AppleBig Green OrangeMedium> BananaSmall The Example below is an excerpt from the extracted index . 1. The tags indicate beginning and end of document 2. The index entry is indicated by the tags I do not know how to handle See and See Also references (as they are not associatied with an id) - any suggestions? Example: Apple, Big, Green Banana, Small Orange, Medium TIA Mary ~ I speak for myself, not for my employer ~ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Mary Dwyer Desktop Applications & Middleware Grp Sun Microsystems Ireland Tel: +353-1-8199222 (xt 19222) Fax: +353-1-8199078 email: mary.dwyer@ireland.sun.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From kirillov@peconic.math.sunysb.edu Wed Apr 25 15:39:34 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from peconic.math.sunysb.edu (mail.math.sunysb.edu [129.49.18.67]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D542CCE3 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from copiague.math.sunysb.edu (IDENT:root@copiague [129.49.18.192]) by peconic.math.sunysb.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21362; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kirillov@localhost) by copiague.math.sunysb.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA04922; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:39:32 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:39:32 -0400 From: Alexander Kirillov To: Mary Dwyer Cc: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: structure of extracted index page Message-ID: <20010425153932.A4782@math.sunysb.edu> References: <200104250932.KAA09346@ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200104250932.KAA09346@ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM>; from Mary.Dwyer@sun.com on Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:29:52AM +0100 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Sorry if I am missing something, but the example given here doesn't seem to be legal docbook: AFAIK, there is no such tag as in DocBook, and *must* contain , and there is no such attribute as "linkid". Thus, the correct markup would be Apple Big etc. I am not sure what to do with the linking id. Of course, this xml document is only intended as a temporary one to be used by help system internally, so in theory we can introduce our own tags - but I'd rather try avoiding this. For example, this would mean we can't use usual (Norman Walsh's) stylesheets for xml->html translation, and would also cause many new problems. More seriously, I'd consider it important that: a. generated index contains (which separate entries starting with diffrent letters), if it is not too much of a problem b. it correctly puts together multiple occurences of a word: if the document contains AppleBig and AppleSmall then the produced index contains Apple Big Small rather than two separate entries "Apple, Big" and "Apple, Small" c. it correctly sorts words alphabetically, even for alphabets other than Latin, using "lang" attribute of the document - e.g., if the document is written in Greek as indicated by lang="gr" attribute, then index should be sorted accroding to Greek alphabet. Is this all feasible? Sasha On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:29:52AM +0100, Mary Dwyer wrote: > hi > > I'd appreciate some feedback/suggestions on the structure of the index > scrollkeeper will create from a document. > > To aid explanation, consider a document including the following index markups: > > > AppleBig Green > > > OrangeMedium> > > > > BananaSmall > > > > > > > The Example below is an excerpt from the extracted index . > > 1. The tags indicate beginning and end of document > 2. The index entry is indicated by the tags > > > I do not know how to handle See and See Also references (as they are not > associatied with an id) - any suggestions? > > > Example: > > > Apple, Big, Green > > Banana, Small > > Orange, Medium > > etc. ....... > > > > > > TIA > Mary From dan@eazel.com Thu Apr 26 01:44:04 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from foodle.uchicago.edu (eazel130.eazel.com [64.0.4.130]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6692DEAC for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 01:44:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by foodle.uchicago.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3Q3iU510922; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:44:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: foodle.uchicago.edu: dan owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:44:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Dan Mueth X-Sender: dan@foodle.uchicago.edu To: Mary Dwyer Cc: scrollkeeper-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Scrollkeeper-devel] structure of extracted index page In-Reply-To: <200104250932.KAA09346@ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues Hi Mary, I suspect you know more about indexing with DocBook than almost anybody else on these lists. I'll give a shot at an answer, and you can correct me where I go wrong ;) My understanding is that id's are optional on all the indexing tags of interest here: indexterm, see, seealso (and maybe others...) Do you know what collateindex.pl does with indexterms which do not have id's? I tried to make a small test document which generates a nice index but wasn't successful within just a few minutes. Do you have a test document handy we can play with? I am guessing that it can generate an index independent of whether the indexterms have id's. It is certainly convenient if all the indexterms have id's, as it is easier to link to them from the index. This is very similar to how the TOC links to section id's though. Jade deals with sections without id's by assigning id's to them. It can do this because it is generating both the anchors and the links in the same output. Suppose we continued to use on-the-fly conversion from SGML to HTML: The difficulty with ScrollKeeper creating an index off of an SGML document, or even a TOC off an SGML document, which doesn't have id's is that the generated index or TOC has to predict the id's (ie. anchors) which will be assigned to those sections or indexterms by the converter at run time. If we know how this assignment will be done, we are ok. Otherwise, we must require that all sections and indexterms (and and ) have id's. This is what we are doing now in the GDP, but is not really a great solution since we are making further restrictions on top of DocBook. Thus SK would not work with just any DocBook doc, but a certain subset of all DocBook docs. So the better solution is to come up with a scheme which will assign id's in a predictable way. This method would be used by ScrollKeeper during the index creation and during gnome-db2html2/gnome-db2html3 during display. The downside to this is that ScrollKeeper would need to know in advance which display system will be used. So long as GNOME and KDE follows the system used by collateindex.pl, we should not have any problems. Laszlo - Does this all sound correct based on your experience? How do you handle sections without id's in ScrollKeeper's TOC extraction? Do you ignore those sections or id them in the same way as db2html? The other possibility is that instead of trying to refer to an anchor in the generated HTML, we try to refer to the position in the XML document. I really don't know how this would work exactly, since I am not very familiar with libxml, but it may be possible. (DV?) Dan On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Mary Dwyer wrote: > hi > > I'd appreciate some feedback/suggestions on the structure of the index > scrollkeeper will create from a document. > > To aid explanation, consider a document including the following index markups: > > > AppleBig Green > > > OrangeMedium> > > > > BananaSmall > > > > > > > The Example below is an excerpt from the extracted index . > > 1. The tags indicate beginning and end of document > 2. The index entry is indicated by the tags > > > I do not know how to handle See and See Also references (as they are not > associatied with an id) - any suggestions? > > > Example: > > > Apple, Big, Green > > Banana, Small > > Orange, Medium > > etc. ....... > > > > > > TIA > Mary > > > > > ~ I speak for myself, not for my employer ~ > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Mary Dwyer > Desktop Applications & Middleware Grp > Sun Microsystems Ireland > Tel: +353-1-8199222 (xt 19222) > Fax: +353-1-8199078 > email: mary.dwyer@ireland.sun.com > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > _______________________________________________ > Scrollkeeper-devel mailing list > Scrollkeeper-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scrollkeeper-devel > From dan@eazel.com Thu Apr 26 01:53:43 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from foodle.uchicago.edu (eazel130.eazel.com [64.0.4.130]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3345D2DE67 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 01:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by foodle.uchicago.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3Q3rXq10965; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:53:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: foodle.uchicago.edu: dan owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:53:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Dan Mueth X-Sender: dan@foodle.uchicago.edu To: Alexander Kirillov Cc: Mary Dwyer , gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: structure of extracted index page In-Reply-To: <20010425153932.A4782@math.sunysb.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Alexander Kirillov wrote: > Sorry if I am missing something, but the example given here doesn't > seem to be legal docbook: AFAIK, there is no such tag as in > DocBook, and *must* contain , and there is no > such attribute as "linkid". Thus, the correct markup would be > > > > Apple > Big > > etc. I am not sure what to do with the linking id. > > Of course, this xml document is only intended as a temporary one to be > used by help system internally, so in theory we can introduce our own > tags - but I'd rather try avoiding this. Mary is creating a new DTD to describe indexing information which is used internally to ScrollKeeper, and possibly to a help browser. It is not meant to be a part of a document, so it isn't necessary or even appropriate to use DocBook. > For example, this would mean we can't use usual (Norman Walsh's) > stylesheets for xml->html translation, and would also cause many new > problems. We would process the DocBook document with this stylesheet when rendering the document, but the internal data Mary is showing would not be handled by a DocBook stylesheet. > More seriously, I'd consider it important that: > > a. generated index contains (which separate entries > starting with diffrent letters), if it is not too much of a problem > > b. it correctly puts together multiple occurences of a word: if the > document contains > > > AppleBig > > > and > > > AppleSmall > > > then the produced index contains > > > Apple > Big > Small > > rather than two separate entries "Apple, Big" and "Apple, Small" > > c. it correctly sorts words alphabetically, even for alphabets other > than Latin, using "lang" attribute of the document - e.g., if the > document is written in Greek as indicated by lang="gr" attribute, > then index should be sorted accroding to Greek alphabet. I'm not sure how good the existing DocBook stylesheet is at doing this. Perhaps somebody else on this list knows? Dan From veillard@redhat.com Thu Apr 26 04:17:12 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (host154.207-175-42.redhat.com [207.175.42.154]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1365C2D236 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 04:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from veillard@localhost) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA25130; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 04:17:07 -0400 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 04:17:07 -0400 From: Daniel Veillard To: Dan Mueth Cc: Mary Dwyer , scrollkeeper-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Scrollkeeper-devel] structure of extracted index page Message-ID: <20010426041707.Z22329@imag.fr> Reply-To: veillard@redhat.com References: <200104250932.KAA09346@ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dan@eazel.com on Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:44:30PM -0500 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:44:30PM -0500, Dan Mueth wrote: > The other possibility is that instead of trying to refer to an anchor in > the generated HTML, we try to refer to the position in the XML document. > I really don't know how this would work exactly, since I am not very > familiar with libxml, but it may be possible. (DV?) I'm afraid I didn't follow the discussion here (sorry !), the best way to get a technical answer from me is to give me a practical example (what's your input, how it's processed, what's the result, why it fails), and then I can use what I know both from the specs and the code to get this answer precisely and quickly, Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat Network http://redhat.com/products/network/ veillard@redhat.com | libxml Gnome XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ From dan@eazel.com Thu Apr 26 05:24:33 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from foodle.uchicago.edu (eazel130.eazel.com [64.0.4.130]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF242D29D for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 05:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by foodle.uchicago.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3Q7OmP12695; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 02:24:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: foodle.uchicago.edu: dan owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 02:24:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Dan Mueth X-Sender: dan@foodle.uchicago.edu To: Daniel Veillard Cc: Mary Dwyer , scrollkeeper-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Scrollkeeper-devel] structure of extracted index page In-Reply-To: <20010426041707.Z22329@imag.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Daniel Veillard wrote: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:44:30PM -0500, Dan Mueth wrote: > > The other possibility is that instead of trying to refer to an anchor in > > the generated HTML, we try to refer to the position in the XML document. > > I really don't know how this would work exactly, since I am not very > > familiar with libxml, but it may be possible. (DV?) > > I'm afraid I didn't follow the discussion here (sorry !), the best > way to get a technical answer from me is to give me a practical example > (what's your input, how it's processed, what's the result, why it fails), > and then I can use what I know both from the specs and the code to get > this answer precisely and quickly, Ok. Let me give this a shot... The DTD represented in this email is fictional and any similarity with a real DTD is purely coincidental. This is a sentence. Sentences This is another sentence. When this is converted to HTML, we will get an index at the end of the document which has a link from an item called "Sentences" to the location of the indexterm element above: between the two paragraphs. Populating our document with indexterms yields a helpful index at the end of the document :) We would like ScrollKeeper to keep an XML data file describing the index. It should list all of the index terms and where they link into the document. The thing I am not sure about is how we "anchor" the links into the document. If the indexterm had a unique id attribute, we could use that. But our DTD does not require the id attribute be used. Is there a nice way we could have an XML representation of the index which somehow specifies the anchors for the index term links so that a browser (such as the help browser in Nautilus) can link from index terms to locations in the XML document? I hope this was clearer. Dan From laszlo.kovacs@Sun.COM Thu Apr 26 05:29:57 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71EB42E335 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 05:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.220.7]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05478; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 02:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sun.COM (trinian [129.156.238.31]) by ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id KAA15594; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:29:42 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AE7EA86.F9E3490B@Sun.COM> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:29:42 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=E1szl=F3=20Kov=E1cs?= Organization: Sun Microsystems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.8 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Mueth Cc: Mary Dwyer , scrollkeeper-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Scrollkeeper-devel] structure of extracted index page References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues > Laszlo - Does this all sound correct based on your experience? How do you > handle sections without id's in ScrollKeeper's TOC extraction? Do you > ignore those sections or id them in the same way as db2html? Yes, sections with no IDs are ignored during TOC extraction. Laszlo From veillard@redhat.com Thu Apr 26 06:16:45 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (host154.207-175-42.redhat.com [207.175.42.154]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071092D2CB for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 06:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from veillard@localhost) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05188; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 06:16:39 -0400 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 06:16:39 -0400 From: Daniel Veillard To: Dan Mueth Cc: Daniel Veillard , Mary Dwyer , scrollkeeper-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Scrollkeeper-devel] structure of extracted index page Message-ID: <20010426061639.A22329@imag.fr> Reply-To: veillard@redhat.com References: <20010426041707.Z22329@imag.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dan@eazel.com on Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:24:47AM -0500 Sender: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org Errors-To: gnome-doc-list-admin@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Loop: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk List-Id: GNOME documentation issues On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:24:47AM -0500, Dan Mueth wrote: > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Daniel Veillard wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:44:30PM -0500, Dan Mueth wrote: > > > The other possibility is that instead of trying to refer to an anchor in > > > the generated HTML, we try to refer to the position in the XML document. > > > I really don't know how this would work exactly, since I am not very > > > familiar with libxml, but it may be possible. (DV?) > > > > I'm afraid I didn't follow the discussion here (sorry !), the best > > way to get a technical answer from me is to give me a practical example > > (what's your input, how it's processed, what's the result, why it fails), > > and then I can use what I know both from the specs and the code to get > > this answer precisely and quickly, > > Ok. Let me give this a shot... > > > The DTD represented in this email is fictional and any similarity > with a real DTD is purely coincidental. > > > > > This is a sentence. > > > > Sentences > > > > This is another sentence. > > > > When this is converted to HTML, we will get an index at the end of the > document which has a link from an item called "Sentences" to the location > of the indexterm element above: between the two paragraphs. Populating > our document with indexterms yields a helpful index at the end of the > document :) > > We would like ScrollKeeper to keep an XML data file describing the > index. It should list all of the index terms and where they link into the > document. > > The thing I am not sure about is how we "anchor" the links into the > document. If the indexterm had a unique id attribute, we could use > that. But our DTD does not require the id attribute be used. > > Is there a nice way we could have an XML representation of the index which > somehow specifies the anchors for the index term links so that a browser > (such as the help browser in Nautilus) can link from index terms to > locations in the XML document? If you want to point into the XML then you need to use XPointer, if you had an ID on the element, say "sentencedef", then the simple way to addres the subpart is #sentencedef if you don't have such an ID in this case you can use the structured access method of XPointer in this case one such pointer could be: #xpointer(/sect1[1]/indexterm[1]/primary[1]) Libxml has an XPointer implementation orchis:~/XML -> cat tst.xml This is a sentence. Sentences This is another sentence. orchis:~/XML -> ./testXPath -xptr -i tst.xml "xpointer(/sect1[1]/indexterm[1]/primary[1])" Object is a Node Set : Set contains 1 nodes: 1 ELEMENT primary orchis:~/XML -> XPointer is not (yet) widely deployed, I just happen to be the co-chair of the working group defining it at W3C, you can get the spec at http://www.w3.org/TR/xptr and I can of course answer questions about it. In practice, getting IDs is better because it's more resilient to changes another improvement would be to have one term per primary tag like this sentence then a very resilent XPointer would be: #xpointer(//indexterm/primary[. = "sentence"]) Basically it instructs to search all indexterm in the document, then look for primary children and extract the ones where the content is "sentence" All those queries are actually XPath expressions (used in XSLT too), you can get more informations at : - a generic presentation on XPointer http://daniel.veillard.com/Talks/9912XPointer/Overview.html - the W3C page on XPointer (at the bottom of the page) http://www.w3.org/XML/Linking.html - XPointer libxml interfaces: http://xmlsoft.org/html/libxml-xpointer.html Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat Network http://redhat.com/products/network/ veillard@redhat.com | libxml Gnome XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ From veillard@redhat.com Thu Apr 26 06:18:01 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gnome-doc-list@gnome.org Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (host154.207-175-42.redhat.com [207.175.42.154]) by mail.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C192D2CB for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 06:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from veillard@localhost) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05263; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 06:17:54 -0400 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 06:17:54 -0400 From: Daniel Veillard To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=E1szl=F3_Kov=E1cs?= Cc: Dan Mueth