Re: [Usability] The eternal fileselector dilemma :)

[Alan Horkan <horkana maths tcd ie>]

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004, Lemmit Kaplinski wrote:

> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:31:32 +0300
> From: Lemmit Kaplinski <lemmit kaplinski com>
> To: usability gnome org
> Subject: [Usability] The eternal fileselector dilemma :)
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am a long time Gnome user (Since the October one I believe), but new
> to this list. I general I like the direction where Gnome is headed, but
> at times I do have my considerations.
>
> The topic of today is the filechooser and most notably the "Save..."
> part of it. I have put down my thoughts and screenshots at
> http://lemmit.kaplinski.com/home/green/Gnome/

It is a little annoying when people post external links and dont include
at least a preface or outline of their suggestions inline as it makes it
much more awkward to respond to the points raised.

I am saying this not to you specifically but because quite a few people
have done it recently and I can only assume that people write to this list
because they do want feedback and do want to ask questions in the best way
possible in order to encourage the best kinds of answers.

On to the substance of your dilema...

I too very much like the bookmarks concept.  (this next bit addresses the
sections you marked in yellow).
I kept asking for it to be included but I always expected a more compact
layout like a drop down menu perhaps, one way to do that would be to
combine it with the 'Save in Folder' dropdown (alternatively a single (KDE
uses a single small icon but I think that is almost too compact to be
clear.)  The current implementation is big and has the advantage of
grabbing attention and hopefully encouraging it to be used but a long
downward column on the left makes me feel like the readability, the flow
of the dialog has been broken, because everything has a much clearer left
to right flow.  It is kinda weird that the column doesn't take the full
left hand side top to bottom which I think would provide a much cleaner
layout but instead is wedged inside the 'middle row'.

The way I see this working would be that Save In Folder would become much
more like the Bookmarks in Mozilla (call it Shortcuts/Locations if you
prefer)

Bookmarks,   [  Add Bookmark...   ]
              ------------------
               Home
               Desktop
               Stock Location
               Stock Location
               ----------------
               User added locations
               User added locations
               User added locations
               --------------------

The Sidebar could be removed entirely, or collapsed by default with a
grippy provided for users to expand it if they want (similarly the stock
dialog could/should include standard preview widget hidden by default with
a grippy to expand it as well, application could have it expanded by
default if they really wanted).


The blue space is tragic, there really is no reason why the file type
widget (All Files) should be expanded to fit the available width, in fact
it is definately a usability flaw to have a smaller target when we could
make use of the dead space to provide a bigger easier to hit target.
It is a shame the reworked user interface was rushed to be included before
details like this were ironed out and thing like type ahead find were
finished.


Breadcrumbs.
Interesting idea but it I dont think it is anything special.
I'd much prefer to have the Location bar back (and perhaps a small "Up"
button somewhere nearby if the developers were feeling generous).

Save As
I dont think Character Coding belongs in the Save Menu I really dont.
Gnome developers have always given in to the temptation to add extra bits
to the file chooser when they really shouldn't.

  _The file chooser should not need customization_

It should be a matter of answer a fews questions
show/hide bookmark widgets by default?
show/hide preview widget by default?
show/hide file types widget by defualt?
add ONE maybe two checkboxes?  (absolutely no more)

There really is no excuse to add other options should not be added
directly to the File chooser.  At the moment most applications will pop a
dialog and ask additional questions for specific file formats, which is
annoying but effective and doesn't clutter the dialog unecessarily.  It is
annoying because applications should provide Preferences for their
importers and exporters, and an Options button could be provide in the
File Chooser iff you need quick access to these features, rather than
being incredibly annoying and prompting you to set them every time.


On Sun, 2004-09-26 at 19:09 +0200, Maurizio Colucci wrote:

> I also don't like the fact that there is no "drag here" widget, in case
> I have the file open in nautilus already.

it would be good for the whole file chooser to be a drag and drop target,
i think it would be a disadvantage to reduce it to only part of the dialog
being a drag and drop target.
http://bugs.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145121

The "we dont need a legacy file chooser" crowd would say that if you have
nautilus open double clicking the file should open in the correct
application (but we both know there is often more than one correct
application).   The application itself should be a drag target.


I know people are sick and tired of hearing all softs of different
opinions about the file chooser but the Beagle Search tool means a lot
more messing with the File Chooser will happen so it is necessary to try
and figure out a way to get applications to at least make their changes in
a consistant way.

If we can find a way to standardize the modifications and make them
stock features that can be enabled/disabled as necessary it will
make for a cleaner more consistant experience.


What I have been wondering most of all is that now that we have a good
clean File Chooser API shouldn't it be possible for those of use who want
more than the current file chooser provides to create our own File Chooser
and wholesale replace it across our entire desktop without needing to
recompile each individual application?

I want to thank Lemmit for restarting the discussion because it is
definately something that still needs to be worked on.  If I sound harsh
or overly criticial please dont anyone take it personally that is my
problem not yours and these discussions of one kind or another have been
going on for so long I understand it is frustrating for everyone.

Sincerely

Alan Horkan

http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
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