Re: Configuration

[Scott Tyson <tysons deepwell com>]

I think people are forgetting some of the goals associated with the GNOME Environment.  If Linux is to make inroads into the desktop market as a viable alternative to windows it must be just as easy to use for the layman.  Think of it this way.  I would not want my father messing with procmail/fetchmail for email reading/filtering.  It might be a powerfull and flexible setup but it is far to cryptic and different from what he is used to.  Linux mailers have to drop the old school unix mailer persona and embrace what programs like Eudora and Calypso (my persnal fav for windows mailer) and Outlook Express offer.  They are simple to use and offer all the tools to handle multiple accounts, filtering, etc.  I personally HATE having mess with procnmail and fetchmail (I use fetchpop).  Coming from NT and using Calypso and going to this setup is backwards to me.  It took me almost a week just to setup fetchpop and proccmail and I only have 3 different folders my mail is dumbed into.  !
!
I could have done the same thing in Calypso in about 5 minutes.  My new found knowlegde of fetchpop and procmail may be great for prosperaty but the bottom line is I spent over 15 hours on a task that should have taken 5 minutes.  My mailer should get my mail for me and filter it for me.  This is industgry standard desktop email software feature set.  

I understand that this is re-inventing the wheel and is going against how things have been done in the *nix world but linux apps cannot ingore what the avereage PC user's expectations are.  They need to offer features that will satisfy those needs.   This is why many of GNOME's tools look like their windows coutnerparts.  Windows has established a feature set that cannot be ignored.  GNOME differes in its execution of these and the underlying technologies but it still needs to address them.  I think there are many in the Linux community that shun anything associated with Windows jsut because it comes from Windows without weighing it on its own merits or considering if its a standard or not.  Yes standards can be changed but you need power and market share to do that, Linux has little of either right now.

If you want to see a great unix mailer (IMHO) but with an ugly interface checkout XFmial.  This is a Eudora clone with filtering, full POP support, message downloading by UID so those of use who read mail from different machines see all mail.   Fetchmail or fetchpop ignore a message that is marked read even if it has not downloaded it. DUMB!!!!  It should check to see if that mesage has been downloaded into the current mailbaox and if not grab it and mark it as read.   Again this is standard windows POP3 mailer feature that needs to be brought into Linux.  

To the balsa authors, I don't care how you implement filtering whether you write your own code or jsut put an interface in for porcmail and call it to do the filtering but filtering NEEDS to be done from within Balsa.  I know the shell is there so I know your working on it but don't let the arguments taht it should be done someplace else sway you.  That arguemnt was made moot by the competition.

I think balsa shows great promise and it and GNOME are keeping me in the world of Linux.  I think about dumping linux and going back to NT daily but I tell myself that things are getting better and I just have to be patient.  Linux takes baby steps at becoming a mainstream Desktop OS alternative everyday.  It still is not there but with projects like GNOME and KDE it just a matter of time.

waiting patiently.

Scott


On Wed, 03 Mar 1999 04:49:46 Jules Bean wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Walt Armour wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hmmm...  Warning: non-procmail user here.  :)
> > 
> > Anyway, the primary thing I was trying to avoid was requiring the user to
> > configure other software packages in order to get their mail.  When I say
> > 'transparent' I mean that Joe User should not have to worry about
> > configuring/maintaining it.  If we can achieve this with the current
> > procmail then perhaps we should use it.
> 
> Certainly, that kind of transparency is desirable.
> 
> I wonder if perhaps this is really the domain of a gnome-mail
> configurator, which understands the chain
> 
> mail-transport-agent
> mail-delivery-agent
> mail-user-agent
> 
> (Ie. sendmail-procmail-balsa, or exim-procmail-balsa)
> 
> and knows how to configure a few alternatives for each level.
> 
> OTOH, that's probably a fairly large project.  It may be the technically
> neatest approach, though.
> 
> Jules
> 
> /----------------+-------------------------------+---------------------\
> |  Jelibean aka  | jules@jellybean.co.uk         |  6 Evelyn Rd	       |
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> |  Julian Bean   | jmlb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk        |  TW9 2TF *UK*       |
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> |  When privacy is outlawed... only the outlaws have privacy.          |
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> 
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