Re: [Patch] A clipboard daemon for gnome-settings-daemon

[Mario Vukelic <mario vukelic dantian org>]

On Sam, 2003-09-06 at 13:14, Hongli Lai wrote:

> Actually I meant applications that are only supposed to copy text (like most 
> Linux apps currently). If something happens which makes them copy 20+ MB of 
> text, or if the user really tries to copy 20 MB of text, then I don't see why 
> the clipboard daemon would be at fault for "enourmous memory usage".

I agree that the clipboard daemon is not at fault for mem usage here.
However, I thought the whole point of the exercise is to get rid of the
horribly outdated clipboard model that can only transfer text?

> Maybe "wrong" wasn't the right word. I was just trying to say that the 
> clipboard daemon should not be blamed for large memory usage.

Again agreed.

> > You have never worked in a non-geek setting? The general user does not
> > know what a "clipboard" is, what "RAM" is and how it is different from
> > persistent storage.
> 
> I doubt it.

Then you are wrong. That's not pretty, but it's how it is

>  My extremely computer-illiterate parents do know what RAM is 
> (because I told them). 

And they know that when they copy data with Ctrl+C that it will consume
more RAM?

> My 15-16 year old classmates know a lot more about 
> computers and hardware than their parents (and are well aware of the 
> difference between RAM and harddisk). 

I agree that it gradually gets better, but don't expect it to change
anything really quick

> Even back when I first started using 
> computers, I knew what RAM is because it's explained in the book I borrowed 
> from the library. 

This is your problem :) General users don't read computer books.

> Shouldn't all the other "general users" at least have followed courses/lessons 
> or read books that teach them basics like these?

They should, but they don't. 

>  I don't know anybody who 
> doesn't know what a clipboard is, besides those that have never used a PC 
> before.

What it is, what they can do with it, but not how it works and what the
implications of its use are

> Besides, if you don't know what a clipboard is then you will also never use 
> it. I don't see the problem.

If you don't know how the internal combustion engine works you will
never drive a car? If you don't know how cell segmentation works you
will never have sex? (quite the opposite it often seems in this case :o)


> Then I think those people haven't received proper education about how to use a 
> computer.

Correct. But they use windows, badly, but they do. "We" want them to use
Gnome (Ximian sure does at least)

> Computers are not magic. You cannot use them properly unless you learn how to 
> use them. 

You can use them what you consider good enough. General car users don't
"know how to drive" compared to a professional racing driver. But it#s
enough to go from A to B

> If they don't know what an MB is then someone should teach them. If 
> people want to use computers properly then they should at least be willing to 
> learn the *basics*. Basics like RAM, clipboard, MB, are very easy to 
> understand.

I don't think so. They don't care. They have other things to do. Read  
http://rinkworks.com/stupid/ and be enlightened. If you think these are
made up, let me tell you a story happening to me last week. To prevent
you saying "well, people in your company must be stupid", let me tell
you that it's one of those mentioned as desireable here
http://www.jobloop.co.uk/news/03092001.htm

A secretary called (no I'm not support, but she works often with our
department, and trusts us). She's in a different location, so I couldn't
walk over, in case u wonder.  They needed their digicam, but the SD card
was full. They needed the pix on the SD card too, so they wanted to
download them to the PC. The laptop with the cam software was nowhere to
be found.

I: "Well, why don't u install the software on another PC?"
S: "I can't"
I: "Why?"
S: "I've got only the CDs"
I: "So?"
S: "..."
I: "Take the CDs, put them in the CD drive, go there in File Explorer,
doubleclick setup.exe, follow instructions"
S: "I can't. Don't now which one, there are 2 CDs"
I "What is written on them?"
S: "The blue one says: Picture Software Manuals, the yellow one says
Picture Software"
I: "So, take the yellow one and put it in the CD drive"
S: "Where?"
I: "Your desktop"
S: "..." (couple of minutes)
I: "Got it?"
S: "Don't know where"
I: "Your desktop PC has a drive like yr. CD player. put it in there"
S: "Oh! You said desktop. There's something on my desk, I thought you
meant this [i suspect that was the monitor]. You mean the PC!. OK"
[couple of minutes]
I: [login to her PC via Netmeeting, tell her to plug the cam in which is
another story in itself. Then I run setup.exe. Setup.exe says to unplug
the cam for driver install]
I: "Could u please unplug the cam from the PC, setup process wants this,
sorry"
S: "Ok"
I: [run setup again. Same thing]
I: "Uhm, is the cam UNplugged now"
S: "Yes"
I: "Strange. See this dialog on your screen? It says to unplug it. I
don't know what's wrong here. Could you recheck?"
S: "Oh, it's plugged now"
I: "Ok, please unplug"
I: [installs ok] "Could u please plug it in again, let's see if it
works."
S: "It's plugged already"
I: "Can't be, i told u to unplug it, and it installed, it really should
be unplugged"
S: "Well, sorry"
I: [check; doesn't work]. "Sorry, no time anymore, please call support"

She is not stupid. She is scared, she has other things to do and this
whole thing stresses her. She works with Word and Notes every day.
Believe me, she (using she for "the general user" here) has no concept
whatsoever of a clipboard except that she copies stuff there and can
paste it. No, she not even has a concept of copying!  The clipboard to
her probably is something like a carrying bag, analogous to this: she
works on some paper stuff at work, then takes it home in a bag to finish
it in the evening. The bag is the clipboard. Does putting stuff in the
bag have an influence on "Size" in "RAM"? No. So.

> Make computers more userfriendly? OK.
> Adapt them to the "infinite stupidity of humanity" (quote from Einstein) ? No.
> I suggest those people to read the book "Windows 95 for Kids", the book I read 
> when I first started using computers. It seems that after I finished reading 
> that book, I knew more about computers than the people you referred to.

Yeah they should read it. They won't. They are not necessarily stupid
because of it. A management secretary has to do stuff that's very
complicated on another level. You would not like it if she said you are
stupid, because you are not able to find a new apartment for your boss,
arrange 4 business meetings with clients around the globe between Tue
and Fri (you were informed Mon evening) + travel + 1st class
accomodation + car pickup, buy and send a present for the wife's
birthday and finish a couple of letters to potential new clients. Plus
fit all the little things in-between. You may not like to do these
things, but they are not easy, and they are stressing because the boss
will yell at you if something goes wrong. The don't have the time or the
nerves to care about RAM. I agree, could they use their tools better,
their stress level would go down, but in most cases it just does not
happen. 

Plus, to be honest: even I don't wanna care about the clipboard. I want
to Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V. I want the optional choice of pasting in different
formats. I don't wann think about it. Sure, I know implicitly what goes
on and what actions I cause, but I don't want to spend 1 sec to think
about it