Re: Plans for 2.8 - GNOME Managed Language Services?

Jamie said:

> > 
> > You can logically see the conclusion of the reformulation of the
> > sentence: if accessing managed libraries is as easy as accessing regular
> > libraries, there wouldn't be any impediment to write core libs in
> > managed code, which could dramatically speed up development.
> In theory, yes. In practice thats unknown at present as we dont know the
> trade off in terms of speed and efficiency. My main concern with Mono
> taking over from C in that respect is what will it cost in terms of
> extra memory requirements and what's the performance like. If you
> remember the doomed Java OS and have seen the beta of Longhorn then I
> hope you understand these concerns about performance/excessive memory
> usage of managed code. I dont know how mono performs in these areas
> (compared to Java/.NET) so I would like to see benchmarks once its at a
> suitable stage. 

AFAIK, code written in C# and compiled to the Mono runtime should run
equally fast as the C equivalent.  Note I said run, meaning that I don't

* load times
* JITting times

so basically "run time" in this paragraph means "code being run after
JIT".  Mono and its runtime have been designed from the ground up to JIT
instead of P-code interpreting, in contrast to Java, where JIT was
bolted on afterwards.  JIT results are also cached, so multiple runs of
the same code path do not require multiple JITs).

Now I'm not assuring anyone that Mono is currently faster than Java (but
Java isn't slow these days, even Python is slower).  But due to its
design, it has a much better chance of being optimized further than
Java.  We may never ever see Mono code running as fast as C++ or C or
ASM, but it can be fast enough, or more than fast enough.

(I am thinking someone with the ability to do so should develop a
"persistent-run-time so startup time equals 0", perhaps coupled to
on-disk JIT caches just like .pyc files, only on machine code - pyc
files are in p-code like Mono assemblies.)

Well, that's just about run speed.  The other thing is development
speed.  Nearly 40% of development is spent in testing and debugging. 
This means that any platform that allows the developer to minimize
defects will result in faster time-to-deliver.  We now know for sure
that it's better to leave some tasks to the computer, such as managing
memory.  Letting the machine manage its memory really helps development,
because it:
1) lets the developer concentrate on the *problem*
2) avoids really-hard-to-track defects related to memory mgmt.

I've been on track of a memory mgmt. defect on Directory administrator
for three straight days, without being able to find it.  I've also had
leaks, leaks that I cannot fix because I simply don't have the skills to
track and debug "hardcore".  I'd seriously welcome C# as a first-class
GNOME devel language, if only for the memory mgmt. thing.  I'd rewrite
DA in Python if I had the time, as well (due to time, I had to
relinquish project control to somebody else).

There were other advantages but right now I have to register two more
bills in GnuCash.  Nice talking to you!

> jamie.
> > 
> > >  This is exactly
> > > what MS is doing with Longhorn to "persuade" all the developers to use
> > > .Net 
> > 
> > That is true.  They are doing it out of greed.  Were we to do so, it
> > would be only on technical merit, thus anything coming out of our camp
> > would definitely be better.
> > 
> > > 
> > > Jamie.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Christian
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > desktop-devel-list mailing list
> > > > desktop-devel-list gnome org
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > desktop-devel-list mailing list
> > > desktop-devel-list gnome org
> > >
	Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)
	GPG key ID: 0xC1033CAD at

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