Re: Menubar (and Empty Default Desktop) Proposals for GNOME 2.10

[Nigel Tao <nigel tao myrealbox com>]

> There was a suggestion on nautilus-list last year (June 2003) to move
> the default locations of the icons (Computer, Home, Trash, ...) to the
> right side.

While that is helpful in some cases, it doesn't help when I am running
something full-screen (or what Alan Cooper of "About Face" calls
"sovereign posture").  Like Jeff said, if I've got something open and
maximized (which is almost all the time), then I can't see the Desktop,
or the icons on it.  I can, however, still see the panel.

My original e-mail mentioned the controversial idea of an empty default
Desktop - but perhaps in the short term a question that I would like
answered is should we roll a "Places" menu into the gnome-panel menubar.
My claim is that it's A Workflow Improvement (TM).

For example: I have a browser open, maximized.  I am reminded of a chart
I was working on in my Project X folder ($HOME/Work/ProjectX).  Except,
I am unsure whether or not the chart was
1) an image file (and should open with eog),
2) a PDF file (and should open with a PDF reader), or
3) embedded in a spreadsheet (and should open with gnumeric).

Thus, I don't know what _application_ I should launch, so I have to go
document-centric.  With the Places menu (and having previously
bookmarked the Project X folder) it's just 2 clicks to the folder, and
then I can look for the file by name.

Without the Places menu, I have to minimize all my open windows (or hit
the Show Desktop button), then double-click Home, then double (middle)
click Work, then Project X, to get to an equivalent stage.  I then have
to restore my minimized windows (or toggle-again the Show Desktop
button) to get back to my original browser.


> don't think it ever got anywhere, but not because there were any really
> good arguments against it (IIRC): just the usual "30 heated messages in
> 2 days, nothing gets decided, and everybody drops it" that I see on this
> list, too.

Heh.  That reminds me of the relationship that I have with my landlord,
but that's off-topic...

Back to something I mentioned earlier - I would like a decision.  Even a
rejection of the Places menu _as part of GNOME_ would let me work on
polishing my applet _as a separate project_ without having to wonder if
I'd be better spending my time trying to integrate it into the current
gnome-panel.

So, when and how would a decision be made?  It doesn't have to be soon,
but I would like to see it in GNOME 2.10.


> I think moving the icons to the right, out from under most windows,
> would alleviate much (but maybe not all) of the need for adding
> redundant menus

Well, they wouldn't be redundant if there was an empty desktop.  ;-)

But things like GTK-bookmarks are not automatically on the desktop, but
they would automatically show up in the Places menu.  And if I bookmark
a folder in the GtkFileChooser, then I would presumably be interested in
(easily) opening that folder in the future.


> (For example, is "Take Screenshot" really so important

I agree that the "Take Screenshot" menu item seems a bit out of place.
Especially since there's also a "Take Screenshot" applet for the
(camera) trigger happy.  Or, it could be moved to Applications ->
Graphics -> Take Screenshot.


> - no longer need separate "Main Menu" / "Menu Bar" panel applets, which
> always confused me (I think having 2 almost-but-not-quite-identical
> versions of the system menu to choose from is what I've heard called
> 'shoving design decisions onto the user')

It is confusing.  I prefer the Menu Bar, and so my solution would be to
remove the "Main Menu".  :-)  But I jest - the little foot-menu is
useful when space is at a premium, and the larger menu is useful because
(IMHO) it's better organized.


> - more space on the panel for the user's stuff (launchers and applets
> and window lists and whatever else he wants)

Well, with my setup (top panel with menu bar, clock, notification area,
and some launchers and applets; bottom panel with window list - I think
it's a pretty regulation setup), my top panel currently has acres of
room to spare.


> - faster to use, since you'll never wonder "Which menu is XXX under?",
> or have to pull down both to see

But if it's all under one menu, then either you have
1) a very long menu, or
2) sub-menus.

And my intuition would be that both options would be slower to use.  My
browser has separate File, Edit, View, etc. menus, rather than just one
sole uber-menu.

In fact, an appropriate analogy might be that the GNOME menu bar
(especially if it lives in the top left corner) is like a regular menu
bar, but for the computer (or possibly for the Desktop).  Just another
idea to throw into the what-should-we-do-with-panels-and-applets
debate.  :)


> - *cough* leaves the door open for, oh, say, changing from having /n/
> menubars

Mac menubars.  Mmm... another controversial idea...


Nigel.