Re: Some questions raised by 131010

[Shaun McCance <shaunm gnome org>]

On Tue, 2004-11-23 at 00:05 +0000, Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-11-23 at 00:37 +0100, Raphael Bosshard wrote:
> > Application Or Document Centric Interface?
> > 
> > There is a bug filed in bugzilla (131010, filed by me).
> > 
> > The bug is about a rather simple thing: Should Epiphany display display
> > the favicons of the webpage or should Epiphany display it's own icon.
> > 
> > This would be a no-brainer if Epiphany were just a webbrowser (Just let
> > the devs do whatever they want). But Epiphany is the default webbrowser
> > for GNOME, and so this questions touches another, more fundamental
> > question; Should GNOME applications be application centric or should
> > they be document centric.
> > 
> > (If you don't know what if these two terms mean; application centric:
> > think windows, document centric: think macos. This example is not so
> > good anymore as it used to be, but it works)
> > 
> > Currenty GNOME is neither. Most GTK applications tend to be application
> > centric, though.
> > 
> > 
> > A little bit outside the scope of this mail is another thing: What type
> > of interface should GNOME applications use: a multi window interface
> > like the GIMP or a single window interface, like Inkscape? There seem to
> > be no recommendations about this toppic.
> > 
> > I reckon that multi window interfaces are more flexible, especially when
> > working with multiple monitors. While it seems to work on MacOS (raising
> > all windows of one application when focusing one window, menubar at the
> > top of the screen... as Ken Harris said: A usability/design discussion
> > about this would be nice) it feels rather awkward for GNOME.
> 
>   I think a one document per window is fine.  Using tabs is fine too.
> But please, stop the gimp/dia/sodipodi madness.

Providing tabs as an *option* is fine.  But when two documents are in
different tabs of the same window, I can't look at them both at the same
time.  I can't compare them, reference one as I edit another, or any of
the other things that computers should make easier.  These are pretty
basic things that I can do with physical pieces of paper on my desk.
It's a shame when using a computer is actaully less convenient.

I really want an option in gedit for "Never ever ever ever ever use
tabs.  Ever.  I'm serious."

>   By default there should be a one-to-one mapping of windows to
> documents.  It's a very simple rule, easy for users and developers.
> Just stop using windows as floating toolbars.  It's just too confusing,
> not matter how useful people with 3 3000x2000 screens think it is, the
> rest of us with a single 1024x768 screen think it sucks.  For instance,
> _every time_ I start Dia I have to waste a few seconds adjusting the
> toolbar and document window positions and sizes.  If it were a single
> window with a toolbar, I could just press the 'maximize' button or
> keyboard shortcut and get on with my work.

All right, I understand that not everybody has a huge resolution.  And
for the record, I only have a 1280x1024 resolution, which isn't all that
huge by today's standards.  And applications should certainly do what
they can to accomodate common setups.  For instance, GIMP's new docking
toolbox stuff lets you put all your tools in one window.  That certainly
helps when screen real estate is at a premium.

But applying strict SDI with a bulldozer doesn't solve anything.  Do you
really want each image window to have all those toolboxes stuffed in?
Off the top of my head, here's some things that would annoy me:

1) The image can't overlap the tools at all.  When I run things, some
windows might be partially obscured.  I can still get to them, but they
don't need their complete space.  For an approach that's supposed to
make things better on smaller monitors, you're actually creating less
usable space by not allowing overlapping windows.

2) Each image window will have so much stuff that I'll basically have to
maximize it.  Since each image now has to have all the tools in a panel
or toolbar or something, every image will have to be maximized.  Almost
every time I use the GIMP, I'm cutting and pasting between a few images.
The SDI approach makes that *very* hard to do.

3) There's no clear way of having multiple views of one image.  Working
on a zoomed in image while watching a normal size view is very helpful.

Clearly, CSDI applications annoy you.  But before you run around yelling
about how things "suck", and making gross exaggerations, you should stop
and think about how your proposal might annoy others, and how it might
"suck" for them.

--
Shaun