From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Wed Jun 14 15:43:49 2006 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:43:49 -0400 Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). [..] > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald From sri at aracnet.com Thu Jun 15 00:33:46 2006 From: sri at aracnet.com (Sriram Ramkrishna) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could license it. I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have probably heard it before. :-) sri From Brian.Cameron at Sun.COM Thu Jun 15 17:15:13 2006 From: Brian.Cameron at Sun.COM (Brian Cameron) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500 Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-Reply-To: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> >>> Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a >>> license with the GNOME community >> >> Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Is there a more appropriate forum for discussing a topic like this? Apologies if my previous email was inappropriate. I certainly do not want to encourage the GNOME community to violate any important ideals. Obviously one ideal that it wouldn't violate is giving our end-users the best desktop experience possible. It seems a bit hard to really do this without finding and supporting creative ways to allow popular desktop IP to integrate with the desktop. But "allowing" IP to integrate doesn't mean that the GNOME community needs to support it financially, obviously. I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. I just wanted to mention the idea and see if there might be interest. From the responses, it seems like there isn't much. But that is fine since end users can go to the Fluendo store to purchase the plugins directly if they want them. > I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have > probably heard it before. :-) While I certainly understand it would be bad for the GNOME community to support non-free projects at the expense of free projects, I didn't think I was suggesting anything that would detract from free software. If enough users/companies are willing to pony up the money to pay for a license, then this isn't taking away from money earmarked for other free projects. In fact, the Foundation could reasonably insist that some extra money to fund free projects would be required for them to consider supporting a non-free project. Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely make free software more popular rather than less. Since the license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't work well. The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate with the desktop. Fluendo is already doing this, so to a degree the need is being met. Really the opportunity to work more closely together only makes it more affordable for everyone. Brian From thomas at apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 07:29:08 2006 From: thomas at apestaart.org (Thomas Vander Stichele) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:08 +0200 Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-Reply-To: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <1150457348.23862.202.camel@otto.amantes> Hi, > On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > > to a per-use license). > > [..] > > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > > license with the GNOME community > > > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Where is the start of this thread ? Nobody I've asked seems to have anything before Ronald's mail. Thomas From thomas at apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 10:30:54 2006 From: thomas at apestaart.org (Thomas Vander Stichele) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:54 +0200 Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1150468254.23862.219.camel@otto.amantes> On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 15:43 -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. I agree with Ronald (though violate is overstating it :)) that this should not be done by the GNOME foundation as such. It would make sense for a group of distributions to team up in some form to do this - but the GNOME Foundation should be about Free Software. (For those of you like me that didn't get Brian's original mail - he was asking what people think about the possibility of some distributors giving money to the GNOME foundation so that the GNOME foundation could pay the license fees for proprietary codecs) Thomas From jdub at perkypants.org Fri Jun 16 13:07:03 2006 From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Message-ID: <20060616170703.GM17421@waugh.id.au> > I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that > the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single > license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like > this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save > money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. It seems more appropriate that this be pursued by distributors and Fluendo themselves (distributing directly to end users) than GNOME. We don't control the integration or immediate end-user experience, so there's not a lot we can do that will directly impact users here - unless you can think of other opportunities. If you mean "us" to include all distributors as well, that is a different issue. :-) (btw, you wrote a very long mail for a few short points) - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltr?, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "You can't just find cake. Cake isn't naturally occuring." - Penny Arcade From cjb at mrao.cam.ac.uk Fri Jun 16 15:49:08 2006 From: cjb at mrao.cam.ac.uk (Chris Ball) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> (Brian Cameron's message of "Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500") References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Message-ID: >> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Brian Cameron said: > Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely > make free software more popular rather than less. Since the > license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be > terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't > work well. "Those who would give up freedom to purchase a little temporary popularity deserve neither." I think that Sriram's right about talking to the distributions. You'll find that most (Fedora, etc) have already committed to not ship patent-encumbered codecs regardless of whether a license is available, though. See, for example, the lack of success ESR had with suggesting that Fedora license an MP3 decoder: http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2006-March/msg01286.html - Chris. -- Chris Ball From murrayc at murrayc.com Fri Jun 16 17:50:21 2006 From: murrayc at murrayc.com (Murray Cumming) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:50:21 +0200 Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Message-ID: <1150494621.5811.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 16:15 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: [snip] > The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with > multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate > with the desktop. [snip] Ignoring the rest of this thread, the start of which hasn't reached my inbox yet... We are not against "Intellectual property", or copyright in general. This is the kind of phrasing I'd expect in a "Linux is for communists" article. We just like to license our copyrighted stuff in a particular way, and generally prefer software that does that too. So I think you really need to avoid this odd terminology, if it's not what you mean, or understand. Murray From Brian.Cameron at Sun.COM Fri Jun 16 17:29:54 2006 From: Brian.Cameron at Sun.COM (Brian Cameron) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:29:54 -0500 Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-Reply-To: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> Message-ID: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> Thomas: I was going to point you towards the archives, but the GNOME archives seem all messed up - no emails before today. Here was my original email. It seems after the responses, that there is little interest in providing encumbered plugins on GNOME distros. While not exactly the answer I was hoping for, I appreciate people exploring the idea and explaining the state of affairs to me. Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. Brian Brian Cameron wrote: > > As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP > plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video > plugins are currently in beta-test. > > http://shop.fluendo.com/ > > While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs > (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that > the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows > IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if > users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). > > They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use > UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the > plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all > UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the > desktop market. > > In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization > like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could > be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian > Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible > if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked > out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME > distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich > experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in > donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? > > As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have > similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own > RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount > of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real > with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely > that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and > RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in > a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems > it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if > they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that > represents such a small percentage of desktop users. > > Is this worth exploring? > > Brian > From newren at gmail.com Fri Jun 16 19:26:36 2006 From: newren at gmail.com (Elijah Newren) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:26:36 -0600 Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, This is just a quick email to ask for help in improving the dogfoodability of our tarballs and CVS. See the lists below my verbose explanation if you want to jump to the details. :) Currently, buildability from either tarballs or CVS is pretty poor; I wouldn't consider either in a dogfoodable state. Most of it is just small things that are easily fixed, but it really adds up. We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we just fix the modules??"). There have also been multiple cases where we have had to revert modules to older versions. It's worth noting that not all is bad -- a quick search shows that there are over two dozen build bugs that have been fixed in the last week and that's only counting the ones that I filed. So people are definitely working hard on this. We'd just like to ask for some extra help where possible to clean up the remainder of the issues (in fact, a bunch of them already have patches...). Luis also wanted me to say: I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole release until they are all fixed. The email should stress that time-based releases only work if the code is dogfoodable all the time. I'd suggest requesting a volunteer to scream at d-d-l every time tinderbox breaks. IMHO, publicly shaming those who break the build is the only way you're going to achieve regular buildability- bugzilla is insufficient. Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gtkmm 344788 (and 344787) simple build warnings gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-vfs 344349 checks for selinux aren't robust gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x pygtk 344845 (probably fixed now by pygtk-2.15.2) deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) Problems in non-release-set modules: ----------------------------------- rhythmbox 343718 partially fixed, but fix has new problems rhythmbox 345036 last released tarball won't build under 2.15.x From rdepantalon at gmail.com Mon Jun 12 19:52:01 2006 From: rdepantalon at gmail.com (Rousseau de Pantalon) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:52:01 +0200 Subject: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet Message-ID: Dear Gnome Developers, I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version. End-users hate decisions. In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd. Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown. Step back. Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested. Step back. Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns. This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do. Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out. This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful. It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John ! Now for the good news: I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell. I like it very much. Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it. Kind regards, Rousseau de Pantalon. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/attachments/20060613/97d82f23/attachment.htm From james at jamesh.id.au Sat Jun 17 05:37:17 2006 From: james at jamesh.id.au (James Henstridge) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 17:37:17 +0800 Subject: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 13/06/06, Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. > It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of > devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in > much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. > > I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John > Ellis: Thanx John ! Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective with hotplugable hardware, since you don't need to configure separate applets for each drive. Furthermore, the new applet works better with the rest of the desktop: 1. it can see all the drives that Nautilus can 2. it can unmount a volume even when a Nautilus window is open for the volume. If it is missing drives, that would mean that Nautilus can't see those drives in its "computer" view either. This would be a bug to fix in gnome-vfs (which would fix both the drive mounter and Nautilus). James. From decaycell at gmail.com Sat Jun 17 09:36:07 2006 From: decaycell at gmail.com (Yaron Tausky) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:07 +0300 Subject: A Framework for Desktop Syndication Message-ID: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Hi, I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps if you think this is all rubbish. :-) On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. -- Yaron Tausky From davyd at madeley.id.au Sat Jun 17 06:25:51 2006 From: davyd at madeley.id.au (Davyd Madeley) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the new libxklavier). --d -- Davyd Madeley http://www.davyd.id.au/ 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA From joseph_sacco at comcast.net Sat Jun 17 15:14:11 2006 From: joseph_sacco at comcast.net (Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D.) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:11 -0400 Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs In-Reply-To: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> Message-ID: <1150571651.7998.6.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> The only people who do do not make mistakes are dead. We do appreciate your contributions to open source. Onwards, -Joseph ============================================================================ On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 18:25 +0800, Davyd Madeley wrote: > On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > > > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x > > I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the > new libxklavier). > > --d > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From dodji at seketeli.org Sat Jun 17 15:10:05 2006 From: dodji at seketeli.org (dodji Seketeli) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:10:05 +0200 Subject: A Framework for Desktop Syndication In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Hello, This sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe you should bring the developer of applications like liferea into the loop. There is certainly something to be shared with them. This kind of API could simplify the code base of apps like liferea and allow other applications to provide syndication to their users, at a very low development cost. Dodji. On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: > Hi, > I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the > use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified > intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's > database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is > for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can > think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. > I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think > there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps > if you think this is all rubbish. :-) > > On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this > seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to > do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not > integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. > > -- > Yaron Tausky > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From nudrema at gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:31:08 2006 From: nudrema at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?=) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:08 +0200 Subject: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. Well, it actually is, especially when you don't show volume icons on your desktop (it's more convenient than showing the "network" place to unmount the volume) This reminds me of two issues : the impossibility to show *only* the volume icons (and not the remote location ones, see bug #159245), and the missing context menu of the places menu (yeah, context menu of menu sounds weird, but it would be great to be able to unmount a volume by right-clicking on its entry in the places menu...) From gnome at nextreality.net Sat Jun 17 18:34:29 2006 From: gnome at nextreality.net (Brent Smith) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:34:29 -0600 Subject: bug buddy branched In-Reply-To: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> References: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Message-ID: <44948375.80400@nextreality.net> This never made it to my mailbox, so I am resending. Brent Smith wrote: > Bug buddy has been branched. > > gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release > HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development > will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From jdub at perkypants.org Sun Jun 18 06:11:48 2006 From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:11:48 +0200 Subject: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060618101148.GB19478@waugh.id.au> > Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to > the radio-buttuns. I was pushing for a solution that sits somewhere in the middle of those points for Ubuntu, but for various reasons the single dialogue approach was taken. Separate dialogues for 'turn off' and 'log out' make sense, but making them very distinct (as with the Ubuntu or better, Windows XP) dialogues would be a great incremental improvement to what we already have in 2.14. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltr?, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ Perl: Making thick Windows admins redundant since 1987. From jdub at perkypants.org Sun Jun 18 06:14:03 2006 From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:14:03 +0200 Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> > We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with > each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we > just fix the modules??"). ... 8< ... > Luis also wanted me to say: > I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to > release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole > release until they are all fixed. Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release management process, cf. signature. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltr?, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak From lists at edmack.com Sun Jun 18 03:13:12 2006 From: lists at edmack.com (Ed Mack) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:12 +0100 Subject: A Framework for Desktop Syndication In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1150614792.8849.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified Perhaps you should look into getting the D-BUS interface standardised through Free-Desktop so that applications can rely on it outside of Gnome. Ed Mack From 5madfarmers at gmail.com Fri Jun 16 18:35:01 2006 From: 5madfarmers at gmail.com (5 Mad Farmers) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:35:01 -0500 Subject: Need an icon and stuff Message-ID: First, sorry for the noise but I figure this is the correct list. I'm about 1/3 done with a program that is GPL and intended for Gnome users. "DVD Juicer" not that I'm a name mimic or anything. The program is just a simple C wrapper (gtk of course) around extract/transcode type tools and the program itself isn't linked to any questionably licensed libraries - it calls external programs. It aims for simplicity and the hope is the people that use it won't have to understand frame rates, codecs, yada yada yada. The program picks the main track (all can be selected) and the user just hits "record" and that's that. In any event I'm not very artistically gifted and am looking for somebody to develop an icon for it. I pretty much know what I'm after but don't have graphic skills. After that I guess I'm wondering about hosting issues. Assuming that I get it banged into useable state, at that point I'd be kind of wanting a mailing list and perhaps someplace to host a tarball, bugzilla too I guess. I'm not subscribed but lurk the list so if you're interested in the icon thing I'd appreciate an email. If somebody can point me to the details for web hosting issues I'd appreciate that too. Thanks for your time. ---- I didn't spend money on the optional funny tag line. Jeff Waugh used to have very funny ones so just paste one of his here. From fherrera at onirica.com Sun Jun 18 10:48:42 2006 From: fherrera at onirica.com (Fernando Herrera) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:48:42 +0300 Subject: Crash reports from GNOME bindings Message-ID: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Hello, current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and Gtk# applications, so here is the question: Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for GNOME 2.16 release? Salu2. From luis.villa at gmail.com Sun Jun 18 11:29:33 2006 From: luis.villa at gmail.com (Luis Villa) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:33 -0400 Subject: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2cb10c440606180829g5729c210p27134929060a7073@mail.gmail.com> Larry Ewing swore to me he'd do this for mono... Larry? :) By the way, let me suggest that this is really critical for binding-based apps to mature. GNOME without bug-buddy would still be very unstable. Bringing bug-buddy to the people developing with your bindings is a *huge* bonus for them, even if they don't know it :) Luis On 6/18/06, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From gjc at inescporto.pt Sun Jun 18 12:00:52 2006 From: gjc at inescporto.pt (Gustavo Carneiro) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:00:52 +0200 Subject: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-06-18 at 17:48 +0300, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). Thanks and regards. > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From nudrema at gmail.com Sun Jun 18 15:24:50 2006 From: nudrema at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?=) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:50 +0200 Subject: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: References: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4495A882.2080608@gmail.com> Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > 1. > The fact that it can see all drives Nautilus can see *is* the problem. > (My harddrives and their partitions are *not* hot-pluggable -- are your's ?) > If I want to see *all* my partitions, mounted or not, I'll open the > Computer Icon. > An applet such as this should at least filter out harddisk-partitions > and only show removable (usb) devices. > Better yet, have a customizable filter on volume-label / id / > device-name or so. In fact, it looks like a bug in your side. Here I only have an icon for my floppy disk (which can't be mounted automatically) and my CD or USB drive when I put them in... My permanent partitions (and I have several of those) don't show up. > 2. > The user cannot filter the devices / partitions shown. Does not matter since only the non-permanent ones should be shown. The icon appears when I plug my USB drive in, or when I put a CD in my CD drive, and then disappears after unmounting/ejecting it. > 3. > All Icons look alike. > It's just a replica of the Computer Icon. > One cannot assign icons to distinguish devices. Once again it looks like a bug. Here (Ubuntu Dapper, Gnome 2.14) I have a different icon for CD and for floppy. > ON THE RIGHT is a panel with the pre-2.10 applet representing my: > - floppy-drive > - pendrive #1 (floppy-disk-size -- bootable) > - the 64MB XD card in my printer > - my 256MB pendrive > - my other 256 MB pendrive > - my 750MB zipdisk > - my DVD-ROM player > - my DVD-writer > - my USB 5G mini-harddrive > - my MP3-player's internal 256MB memory > - my MP3-players 512MB SD extension BTW are you sure you don't have all those in your fstab and let hal/udev/whatever do its job ? It looks weird to me to have that many different usb drive placeholders... I guess not. The previous applets had that issue of not being friendly with this auto-configuration stuff: it wasn't possible to make one show up when you plug an USB drive. Actually, this works even if you've never used a USB key before. Looking at my fstab, I can see I have an entry for my CD-ROM drive, and for my IDE hard drives. That's all. Not even a line for my floppy, nor usb drives. > I propose the following: > - A filter in which the user can select the mountable devices to be > shown on the panel. > - The ability to attach a meaningful (custom) icon that represents the > device. > - Falling back to fstab if mounting/unmounting using udev/hotplug does > not do the trick. > - Make famd more aware of Nautilus created files/folders like > .Trash----- and thus not blocking unmounts. Maybe you should fill it as a bug in bugzilla if you think it's really useful to some people. -- Steve http://tw.apinc.org From benoit at placenet.org Sun Jun 18 15:16:51 2006 From: benoit at placenet.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Beno=EEt?= Dejean) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:51 +0200 Subject: gnome-system-monitor has been branched Message-ID: <1150658211.603.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> The stable branch is gnome-2-14 and the development branch is HEAD. -- Beno?t Dejean JID: TazForEver at jabber.org GNOME http://www.gnomefr.org/ LibGTop http://directory.fsf.org/libgtop.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message =?ISO-8859-1?Q?num=E9riquement?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_sign=E9e?= Url : http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/attachments/20060618/c1c0e816/attachment.bin From fherrera at onirica.com Sun Jun 18 16:35:18 2006 From: fherrera at onirica.com (Fernando Herrera) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:35:18 +0300 Subject: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed by bug-buddy after the bug report. I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. Salu2 From james at jamesh.id.au Sun Jun 18 21:47:45 2006 From: james at jamesh.id.au (James Henstridge) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:47:45 +0800 Subject: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 19/06/06, Alan Horkan wrote: > > Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find > > to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective > > Dont know what the original commenter disliked about the applet but I > found it annoying that the icons are set to be generic looking drives > ("mystery meat") to start with, even though each button is assigned to > specific device type. Only when the drive is mounted change to look like > CD/USB/Floppy etc and that little bit of extra guesswork/memorisation is > something I could do without. That is something that might be worth fixing. The drive mount applet gets all the drive images from gnome-vfs (using gnome_vfs_drive_get_icon and gnome_vfs_volume_get_icon). If gnome-vfs is changed to provide better icons for unmounted drives/volumes, that will fix their display in the applet and Nautilus. James. From paolo.maggi at polito.it Mon Jun 19 03:11:00 2006 From: paolo.maggi at polito.it (Paolo Maggi) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:00 +0200 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way Message-ID: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the languages name (the iso_639 module). I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? Ciao, Paolo From Darren.Kenny at Sun.COM Mon Jun 19 05:49:27 2006 From: Darren.Kenny at Sun.COM (Darren Kenny) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:27 +0100 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44967327.4060809@Sun.COM> Has anyone looked into the use of Tim Fosters (yeah Glynn's brother) open language tools? https://open-language-tools.dev.java.net/ I know they are in Java, but this is the main point of what it addresses - the sharing of translations - while it doesn't have the "server" functionality, it does go some way to supporting the idea of sharing of translations. Darren. PS - I'm no expert in L10N or I18N, so please excuse my ignorance... Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? > > Ciao, > Paolo > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list at gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From james at jamesh.id.au Mon Jun 19 06:39:56 2006 From: james at jamesh.id.au (James Henstridge) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:39:56 +0800 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't be presented as such to the user. James. From ArC at gulic.org Sun Jun 18 22:35:06 2006 From: ArC at gulic.org (Alberto Carlos Ruiz) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 Subject: A Framework for Desktop Syndication Message-ID: <3acf4f39f60be389c617b40fbe1978cb@socios.gulic.org> dodji Seketeli escribi?: Hi there I've been working around using feed syndication on the desktop, in fact I've wrote a little app to syndicate art.gnome.org brand new atom format, to automatic install backgrounds from the site, Jilorio, (http://aruiz.synaptia.net/siliconisland/2006/05/jilorio_feed_fo.html) Gtk and metacity themes are also planned. While I was writting the app, I was wondering how could I centralize the feed agregation since I would use several feeds, and I've been thinking another uses of feeds around the desktop. So I think that a solution like this could rock to approach a "live desktop" which can change using the internet content. >Dodji. > >On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: >> Hi, >> I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the >> use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a >> daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified >> intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's >> database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is >> for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can >> think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. >> I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think >> there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps >> if you think this is all rubbish. :-) >> >> On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this >> seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to >> do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not >> integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. >> >> -- >> Yaron Tausky >> >> _______________________________________________ >> desktop-devel-list mailing list >> desktop-devel-list at gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list >> >_______________________________________________ >desktop-devel-list mailing list >desktop-devel-list at gnome.org >http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From isak.savo at gmail.com Mon Jun 19 08:10:26 2006 From: isak.savo at gmail.com (Isak Savo) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:10:26 +0200 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <50b611120606190510hac0a14cvabbe1aa3b0de5193@mail.gmail.com> 2006/6/19, James Henstridge : > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. This is also what the FSF states on their license page[1]. That page also contains links to already translated versions of the three GNU licenses. They are unofficial though, in the sense that it is the English version that what counts in court. Isak [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#UnofficialTranslations From alan at lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk Mon Jun 19 08:51:29 2006 From: alan at lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a foreign language will not find much favour. The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less important property. The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. Translations really should include a translation of the license text where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that the American English version is the authorative document for legal purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and what rights you have given them. Alan From menthos at gnome.org Mon Jun 19 12:31:50 2006 From: menthos at gnome.org (Christian Rose) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:31:50 +0200 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least for the short License declarations (like "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: 1) Most common widget and menu names are already defined (and translated) in GTK+. A "License" button would be the same thing. 2) If there was an "add a license dialog to my app" API for developers to use, it would make sense to allow a template for the short declarations of most common licenses to be used. If run in a non-English locale, also display a non-official translation if it exists. 3) External dependencies that help translation (like the iso_639 module) are very useful, but developers are often not aware of it, and for obvious reasons they try to avoid unnecessary dependencies, so in practice, few applications make use of them. > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? It is a real problem. I've lost track of how many times I have manually copied the unofficial Swedish translation of the "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..." "This app is GPL"-style declaration blurb into different applications. Even more exciting since different applications format the texts differently (with or without newlines and/or markup, different amount of spacing, etc) and give different addresses to the FSF (the FSF changed address at least once), so the number of variants in use is enormous... A "do it once, do it right" convenience API for developers to use for this would be a big plus, for both developers and translators. Christian From sri at aracnet.com Mon Jun 19 15:03:16 2006 From: sri at aracnet.com (Sriram Ramkrishna) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-Reply-To: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> Message-ID: <20060619190316.GI7996@aracnet.com> On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 04:29:54PM -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" > attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to > purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather > than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially > if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I > don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made > yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make > a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. My advice to you is to sit with the other distributions and figure out how to do it from a "GNU/Linux platform" perspective. You can't be the only company who wants to have proprietary format work "out of the box" I don't know if there is a "distro summit" but that would be the first place I would hit to start pushing for this kind of thing. But doing it from the GNOME project perspective doesn't seem very likely. So it's exactly what you're planning to do now, but it would be the distributions not the GNOME project. True it complicates the task, but if distributors want to grow their share of the desktop market they'll probably want to opt into your idea. Besides, it's a great way to get some good press by leading. :-) sri From gnome at nextreality.net Mon Jun 19 22:11:48 2006 From: gnome at nextreality.net (Brent Smith) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:11:48 -0600 Subject: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Fernando Herrera wrote: > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Any security implications there? -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From behdad at cs.toronto.edu Mon Jun 19 23:39:49 2006 From: behdad at cs.toronto.edu (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:39:49 -0400 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1150774790.14758.3.camel@home> On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 12:31 -0400, Christian Rose wrote: > On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least > for the short License declarations (like "This program is free > software; you can redistribute it and/or > modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: I replied to this thread, but seems like it didn't make it through the list. I've been working on exactly what you suggest in this bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336225 A couple of technical questions remain open, but you get the idea. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" From james at jamesh.id.au Tue Jun 20 02:58:48 2006 From: james at jamesh.id.au (James Henstridge) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:58:48 +0800 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 19/06/06, Alan Cox wrote: > Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > > be presented as such to the user. > > True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a > foreign language will not find much favour. > > The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the > code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less > important property. > > The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. > Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot > exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, > oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. > > Translations really should include a translation of the license text > where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that > the American English version is the authorative document for legal > purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. > > Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and > what rights you have given them. Those are good points, and it sounds like a good idea to show an unofficial translation along with the real license. But it needs to be clear that if the translation and the english text differ that the english text be considered authorative. This is particularly important if the translated text is displayed when the user asks the app what its license is. James. From paolo.maggi at polito.it Tue Jun 20 04:19:40 2006 From: paolo.maggi at polito.it (Paolo Maggi) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:40 +0200 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1150791580.5512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 18:39 +0800, James Henstridge wrote: > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. I don't want to show in the License dialog the entire license text but only the good old "This program is free software... [snip]....You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program..." snippet. I agree with you translations of license text could be problematic. But I don't think this is the case since the text only says which is the license and where to find it. Ciao, Paolo From gjc at inescporto.pt Tue Jun 20 07:08:06 2006 From: gjc at inescporto.pt (Gustavo Carneiro) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:08:06 +0200 Subject: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Message-ID: <1150801686.6052.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 20:11 -0600, Brent Smith wrote: > Fernando Herrera wrote: > > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > > > > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then > the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Sounds good. > > Any security implications there? None that I can see. -- Gustavo Carneiro INESC Porto From christianb at altervista.org Tue Jun 20 11:06:07 2006 From: christianb at altervista.org (Christian Barbato) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:06:07 +0200 Subject: About Unix Power for Gnome Message-ID: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I'm brand new here so first of all I'll present myself. My name is Christian, I'm from italy (really near Venice) and I've finished university (computer science) last October, of course I'm a free software user and enthusiast (actually using Debian on my desktop and Ubuntu on my notebook, both with Gnome as desktop environment). For my master thesis I've done a work that probably fit quite well with the Unix Power for Gnome problem raised by Rodrigo Moya about one year ago (http://blogs.gnome.org/view/rodrigo/2005/08/19/0). Last week I've published the project born from my thesis on sourceforge at http://sflux.sourceforge.net The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application. What I've thought is a way to describe a computer system (documents, applications and operations) using Semantic Web technologies (RDF/OWL/Sparql) so that S-Flux (the application I've done) can understand what operations can be done on a particular document(s) using the applications installed on the system, create a pipeline of operations and actually perform them. On the site you'll find a couple of screencast too, 'cause I know my english is not so good so seeing is better than reading :-) The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about it. Thanks a lot for the attention, ciao! Christian. From paolo.bacchilega at libero.it Tue Jun 20 12:27:45 2006 From: paolo.bacchilega at libero.it (Paolo Bacchilega) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:45 +0200 Subject: file-roller branched Message-ID: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> Hi, the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. Regards, Paolo. From harmon at ksu.edu Tue Jun 20 12:50:20 2006 From: harmon at ksu.edu (Scott J. Harmon) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:50:20 -0500 Subject: file-roller branched In-Reply-To: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > Hi, > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture changing bugs... > Regards, > Paolo. > Thanks, Scott. From newren at gmail.com Tue Jun 20 12:53:35 2006 From: newren at gmail.com (Elijah Newren) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:53:35 -0600 Subject: file-roller branched In-Reply-To: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> Message-ID: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > Hi, > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > changing bugs... Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get freeze break approval) ;-) From newren at gmail.com Tue Jun 20 13:35:47 2006 From: newren at gmail.com (Elijah Newren) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:35:47 -0600 Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs In-Reply-To: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> Message-ID: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > management process, cf. signature. > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both (There is a patch but claims nss has to be disabled for e-d-s for it to work) Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html (Frederic Peters has a patch for this) evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) From murrayc at murrayc.com Tue Jun 20 14:28:20 2006 From: murrayc at murrayc.com (Murray Cumming) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:28:20 +0200 Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1150828100.6261.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 11:35 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > > management process, cf. signature. > > > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: For really simple things, I think the release-team should just go ahead and fix it, and retarball where necessary, if you can't get a maintainer to do it. (Please, would the release team finally just go ahead and release a libglade 2.6.0 tarball?) -- Murray Cumming murrayc at murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From gnome at nextreality.net Tue Jun 20 22:39:20 2006 From: gnome at nextreality.net (Brent Smith) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:39:20 -0600 Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4498B158.8020609@nextreality.net> Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: >> Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release >> management process, cf. signature. > >> "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be >> like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: > > [snip] > gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h Invoking build sheriff privileges. 2006-06-20 Brent Smith * configure.in: add GTK+ to PKG_CHECK_MODULES so the include path for GTK is specified in the cflags; patch from Elijah Newren, fixes #344695 -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2002-April/msg00226.html > Proposed Changes to [aptly renamed] "Start Here": > > 6 Folders (listed alphabetically) ... > Startup > The end of the session manager! Well, not really. Any thing the user > places here (preferably as links and .desktop files) would opened > (or run) when the user logs in. This requires the most new work > of these folders as it involves the session manager. It might > be implemented by passing the --sm-disable argument to programs > run from it and placing in the default gnome-session something to > open the things in the startup folder. ... Cheers, Greg Merchan From iaingnome@gmail.com Fri Jun 2 19:59:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869683B047B for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32453-07 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.171]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C303B0B7F for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so671871uge for ; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=H1Ne4pKCRfVg5XCcNJOijkcp7kgP1jOGUnyBKNo10St1vW+TR/MaRL7mfp1YpYzR1ww/NPnbYtsozd5iHD4rZARvJpfeKJTDMoj1OiZ82HIA7f1V2ALUOqt8hjbt5qmawaaJxKaaz7JPIkDezWuiAq/zP6/mFLIkg2if+G0X7z0= Received: by 10.67.89.6 with SMTP id r6mr1253688ugl; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.245.8 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 00:59:23 +0100 From: "Iain *" To: "Desktop Development List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.888 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077, TW_RG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -0.888 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 23:59:26 -0000 ------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hi Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a maintainer these days? First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use this new system The patch is here: http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch and is also attached. lots of love iain ------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name=gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_enz77jd7 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch" SW5kZXg6IENoYW5nZUxvZwo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09ClJDUyBmaWxlOiAvY3ZzL2dub21lL2dub21lLXRl cm1pbmFsL0NoYW5nZUxvZyx2CnJldHJpZXZpbmcgcmV2aXNpb24gMS41NTUKZGlmZiAtVTIgLXIx LjU1NSBDaGFuZ2VMb2cKLS0tIENoYW5nZUxvZwkxNyBNYXkgMjAwNiAyMjoxMDowNCAtMDAwMAkx LjU1NQorKysgQ2hhbmdlTG9nCTIgSnVuIDIwMDYgMjM6MTk6MjIgLTAwMDAKQEAgLTEsMiArMSwx MiBAQAorMjAwNi0wNi0wMiAgSWFpbiBIb2xtZXMgIDxpYWluQGdub21lLm9yZz4KKworCSogc3Jj 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------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065-- From lucasr.at.mundo@gmail.com Sat Jun 3 06:15:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D02B3B04F5 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28056-04 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 326E13B0622 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so758994uge for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=be0ykkhnR+WInlr9zJKJ3Eg2z7QkHBPz/mS2UJdtwVZO5Za3jb8unUjjkVfETZAFRWc39WiZRaWUuPoblhjjhvWzgk517bpMwWIUwugErS7qPPHUitDvugxhhvQjbrj0ByMDtIeDvOj5b4ClEA+rvsnZIwwpbWAJiAWEZKN3rJk= Received: by 10.67.97.7 with SMTP id z7mr1557650ugl; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.32.17 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31a62e6f0606030315i5794061fx3afda4bd5a1d3599@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 07:15:02 -0300 From: "Lucas Rocha" To: "Desktop Development List" In-Reply-To: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.254 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.346, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.254 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 10:15:10 -0000 Hi Iain, AFAIK (and acoording to the MAINTAINERS file), gnome-terminal is maintained by Guilherme Pastore (aka fatalerror). I suggest you to file a bug and try to meet him on IRC. Behdad has been doing some stuff on this module too. p eace --lucasr 2006/6/2, Iain * : > hi > > Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a > maintainer these days? > > First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked > fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that > stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. > > Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program > instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus > pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use > this new system > > The patch is here: > http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch > and is also attached. > > lots of love > iain > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > > > From kalle.vahlman@gmail.com Sat Jun 3 11:21:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042763B067E for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11829-06 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210563B06CA for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so807287uge for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RsVv8gkP8m9sF8YRGPObFNgPMrFZhMxg2dj1ZuUMrD/5o3bHyLSTTVDdZvcK3l+E2oHXnO9ff2Wi4ktD4/8E4YcMxVkQUaO61hgwEWINDBbCHofhSfsE8DhkXjEtpiaL2S8cJXm+bDOAm+8d2uauZESHawvURG0Ft0YGVX8pnT8= Received: by 10.67.103.7 with SMTP id f7mr1758517ugm; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.16.10 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <177e83dd0606030821n5c774ad3p127dd3a6675e82e1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 18:21:27 +0300 From: "Kalle Vahlman" To: "Iain *" In-Reply-To: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.49 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.448, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.49 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Desktop Development List Subject: Re: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: zuh@iki.fi List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:21:32 -0000 2006/6/3, Iain * : > hi > > Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a > maintainer these days? > > First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked > fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that > stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. > > Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program > instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus > pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use > this new system Very cool. Seems to launch way faster than bonobo version too after a quick test :) (though that might be 2.14.1 vs CVS too I guess) > The patch is here: > http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch > and is also attached. > > lots of love to > iain ;) -- Kalle Vahlman, zuh@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Sun Jun 4 15:26:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4B93B016C for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06133-05 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.192.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 002C43B02A5 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060604192622m1200nk46be>; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:26:23 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Gnome Desktop Development List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:26:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.641 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.332, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.641 X-Spam-Level: Subject: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 19:26:25 -0000 A common [fatal] error reported by a number of applications in the 2.15.x branch is: Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to open file '': No such file or directory GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed aborting... Questions: * Is there a simple work around? It is difficult to test 2.15.x with this error in place. * Any chance that this problem will be resolved any time soon? I have seen this problem in 2.15.0, 2.15.1, and 2.15.2. -Joseph -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From bjourne@gmail.com Sun Jun 4 16:21:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F543B01AC for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08773-06 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDA63B0101 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1042692wxd for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Hb49BjoqweARg0w5t1fwubOAcbRHt6rtJiiTAWtgSnZ3+F4OH33pOXhARWn3vwVWy6kqDi2iOKnFZPw2JKR3C8qvwy+eTYvI1Bzb+s1h+rA2KDJCI0VUUB+mCT9l7yayiKg8drLRqVlj8TiHujImfISlEdqio6Ue36336uFqRuQ= Received: by 10.70.49.6 with SMTP id w6mr5252855wxw; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.10 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 22:21:29 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.421 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_MV=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.421 X-Spam-Level: Subject: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 20:21:31 -0000 Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very much prefer svn instead of cvs. --=20 mvh Bj=F6rn Lindqvist From as583@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sun Jun 4 16:27:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99653B01AC for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09042-03 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.139]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5B63B016C for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from as583.emma.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.248.113]:34970) by ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.159]:587) with esmtpsa (PLAIN:as583) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1FmzBj-0002Xc-UQ (Exim 4.54) (return-path ); Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:27:07 +0100 Message-ID: <448341FB.80605@gnome.org> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:26:35 +0100 From: Andrew Sobala User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?= References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Andrew Sobala X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.509 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.064, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.509 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 20:27:14 -0000 BJörn Lindqvist wrote: > Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to > Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have > been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the > switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very > much prefer svn instead of cvs. Discussion happened on gnome-hackers; new date is 14th July. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2006-June -- Andrew From newren@gmail.com Sun Jun 4 19:03:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66DAD3B00D0 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17079-09 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058B23B0288 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1057642wxd for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=R7GruRgIZLPAkXceJSqXQP+VWzvqThkkwX1ScM7kmw6txaFHhFEDUh6fp+rn3fJbD3OMAOnM6VZg2F7S8zQoQhquZshi9t9n9+jYYDE3fF3bF4nmR8wXjRXQh2RN4yh37VhpDUzhpTZA3m8q5l8sf+E21p5FuEDO6fPqMOCRAvc= Received: by 10.70.117.16 with SMTP id p16mr5361597wxc; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.7 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 17:03:50 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" In-Reply-To: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 23:03:53 -0000 On 6/4/06, BJ=F6rn Lindqvist wrote: > Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to > Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have > been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the > switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very > much prefer svn instead of cvs. Looks like we failed somewhere to get the word out about devel-announce-list widely enough. It's a very low volume list meant for important announcements. Granted, as aes mentioned, the general discussion happened on gnome-hackers but for those who'd prefer to just get the big announcements, the postponement[1] and new date[2] of the SVN migration were both announced to devel-announce-list. [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-March/msg00003.= html [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-May/msg00004.ht= ml From bjourne@gmail.com Mon Jun 5 05:52:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1BB3B00CE for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20033-02 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C378C3B031D for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1128508wxd for ; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=VMrV0zJYnZc0fD1VxiFU6iO0HMwOvUJii7CeNIne4sN/1ca5a5eoNh7bFx9Z9ad8xJbjVO+NDr5x2X/KgqpPy2/+pgcWkzKWJESg+2cqYe7VN2Po3B9AQ2FjyxKxudGZSGX3JmBq/AYm2grwUUdOPY1cV9xw77N9zClfsOn0AR4= Received: by 10.70.49.6 with SMTP id w6mr5849501wxw; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.10 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 02:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <740c3aec0606050252h780f6f63nb417e174eab1882f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:52:42 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 09:52:47 -0000 > Looks like we failed somewhere to get the word out about > devel-announce-list widely enough. It's a very low volume list meant > for important announcements. Granted, as aes mentioned, the general > discussion happened on gnome-hackers but for those who'd prefer to > just get the big announcements, the postponement[1] and new date[2] of > the SVN migration were both announced to devel-announce-list. > > [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-March/msg0000= 3.html > [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-May/msg00004.= html Then I'm very sorry to have been bothering the wrong list unnecessary. /me goes and subscribes to yet another mailing list The new Subversion migration date is fantastic news though. --=20 mvh Bj=F6rn From William.Walker@Sun.COM Tue Jun 6 10:21:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A26B3B0182 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28117-01 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C373B0A96 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k56ELg6m000827 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0F00501ZP9UE00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.11] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0F002B2ZW4FRQ0@mail-amer.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:21:38 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-id: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.586 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.586 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:21:48 -0000 Hi All: We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would like to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal to include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the missing features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also done a fair amount of stability and testing work. We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of Gnopernicus: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to address the issues that arise. Thanks! Will (Orca project lead) From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 6 21:02:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198963B02E8 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01166-08 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.206]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD9E3B0119 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so95533wxd for ; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=uMjiD2UneBstxGvHvDUjCg20B/AKOA7TrAPOlIojwLeWRAYoc8aPUZKa86K9RbBmkohVgwdRxv0WpgmxKGK/wNrfrNiB5s59ipLN64fkMZtn1R93/tdqgaWAKEH0mEqq5FOAXfvdnCNTH04zG4woQnpwJUJEFV6sGQHcZuJp1GI= Received: by 10.70.33.8 with SMTP id g8mr307306wxg; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.7 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606061802o2e6a876br82818f1864d6f50c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:02:22 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Willie Walker" In-Reply-To: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.572 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.572 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:02:26 -0000 On 6/6/06, Willie Walker wrote: > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > Gnopernicus: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html That email pretty much looks like the clincher to me; it looks to me like it resolves the only big issue I remember anyone bringing up. > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > address the issues that arise. Thanks for your awesome work. We've kind of sucked at getting the proposed modules all listed. Could you go to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Desktop and add orca (and, if you have time, the other proposed modules)? We should start getting those into the modulesets going out with releases and doing a better job of verifying the build and so forth (though I'm betting GARNOME is ahead in the game and has them included, which would be cool). As per the schedule at http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen, the "Module inclusion discussion heats up" on the week of July 12th. I can't imagine why orca wouldn't make it at this point, as it looks like you've already addressed any potential issues that could come up. But if you want to be on the safe side, just watch your d-d-l email that week and if any additional issues about orca are brought up you can address them. Hope that helps, Elijah From fcrozat@mandriva.com Wed Jun 7 11:02:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0503B0272 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22929-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office.mandriva.com (ezoffice.mandriva.com [84.14.106.134]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D433C3B0127 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trinidad.mandrakesoft.com (trinidad.mandrakesoft.com [192.168.100.216]) by office.mandriva.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4FA531 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:02:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Frederic Crozat To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Mandriva Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:02:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3-10mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:02:44 -0000 Le dimanche 04 juin 2006 à 15:26 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. a écrit : > A common [fatal] error reported by a number of applications in the > 2.15.x branch is: > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > open file '': No such file or directory > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > (object)' failed > aborting... > > Questions: > > * Is there a simple work around? > It is difficult to test 2.15.x with this error in place. > > * Any chance that this problem will be resolved any time soon? > I have seen this problem in 2.15.0, 2.15.1, and 2.15.2. You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 -- Frederic Crozat Mandriva From federico@ximian.com Wed Jun 7 12:58:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348273B0461 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31312-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B5A3B04FC for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17019 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2006 16:58:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO 164-99-120-35.boston.ximian.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2006 16:58:49 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: Frederic Crozat In-Reply-To: <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 11:54:38 -0500 Message-Id: <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:58:53 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > (object)' failed > > aborting... > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when builddir == srcdir. Federico From fcrozat@mandriva.com Wed Jun 7 13:03:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857CE3B0502 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31466-08 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office.mandriva.com (ezoffice.mandriva.com [84.14.106.134]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039683B02D9 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trinidad.mandrakesoft.com (trinidad.mandrakesoft.com [192.168.100.216]) by office.mandriva.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCABD531 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 19:03:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Frederic Crozat To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Mandriva Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:03:31 +0200 Message-Id: <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3-10mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.57 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:03:35 -0000 Le mercredi 07 juin 2006 à 11:54 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero a écrit : > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > > (object)' failed > > > aborting... > > > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 > > It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when > builddir == srcdir. Easy workaround : rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h and rebuild : tarball was shipped with an incomplete gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h file. -- Frederic Crozat Mandriva From Matt.Keenan@Sun.COM Wed Jun 7 13:26:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FB33B047D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00550-01 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F703B006D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k57HQTEv011828 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:26:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J0I00H0130ZXK@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Matt.Keenan@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:26:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.150.120.79] (vpn-129-150-120-79.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.120.79]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0J0I00AG1344JB@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:26:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:26:27 +0100 From: Matt Keenan To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-id: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060119) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:26:32 -0000 Hi, What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME community ? Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is this something that people see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better solution ? As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the moment we really would like to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the preferred format is a necessity. Cheers Matt From ross@burtonini.com Wed Jun 7 13:43:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690793B045D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01751-03 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B766B3B02BA for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from burtonini.com (althur.gotadsl.co.uk [84.12.135.175]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B06EA33500E; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:37:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (ident=unknown) by burtonini.com with esmtp (masqmail 0.2.21) id 1Fo1yK-86I-00; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:37:36 +0100 From: Ross Burton To: Matt Keenan In-Reply-To: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> References: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d" Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:37:35 +0100 Message-Id: <1149701855.8920.49.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:43:03 -0000 --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 19:26 +0100, Matt Keenan wrote: > Hi, >=20 > What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME communit= y ? >=20 > Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is=20 > this something that people > see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better=20 > solution ? >=20 > As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the=20 > moment we really would like > to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the=20 > preferred format is a > necessity. I'd say that Docbook would make a good master source, as the user guide is also written in docbook. Ross --=20 Ross Burton mail: ross@burtonini.com jabber: ross@burtonini.com www: http://www.burtonini.com./ PGP Fingerprint: 1A21 F5B0 D8D0 CFE3 81D4 E25A 2D09 E447 D0B4 33DF --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBEhw7fLQnkR9C0M98RAlH3AJ9SQGc/4xzkv/EMKc5nfQ4m9N0eawCgxL6G y/1LhGBSG7RTJhB6hFhSdBQ= =tJHS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d-- From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Wed Jun 7 14:05:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F2D3B0DCF for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03337-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B5743B0E23 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060607180513m1200pab1je>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:05:13 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:05:12 -0400 Message-Id: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.645 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.336, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.645 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:05:22 -0000 I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h * build * install The bad news is I still see the error. -Joseph =========================================================================== On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 19:03 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > Le mercredi 07 juin 2006 à 11:54 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero a écrit : > > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > > > (object)' failed > > > > aborting... > > > > > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > > > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 > > > > It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when > > builddir == srcdir. > > Easy workaround : rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h and rebuild : tarball was > shipped with an incomplete gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h file. > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From federico@ximian.com Wed Jun 7 14:42:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CB43B069F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05780-02 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178E63B0DB6 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17247 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2006 18:42:01 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO 164-99-120-35.boston.ximian.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2006 18:42:01 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:37:51 -0500 Message-Id: <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.536 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_XV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.536 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:42:04 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: > > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > * build > * install > > The bad news is I still see the error. You may need to 1. tar xvf gtk.tar.gz 2. configure; make 3. rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h 4. make 5. make install I.e. let it build, then remove the header file, then build again. Federico From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Wed Jun 7 14:47:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8E73B0E0B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06186-03 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (unknown [216.148.227.155]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4878F3B0E45 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20060607184711m15001vu4je>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:47:12 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Federico Mena Quintero In-Reply-To: <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:47:10 -0400 Message-Id: <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.608 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.376, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, TW_XV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -0.608 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:47:14 -0000 I have a sense of humor. I will give that a try. For what it's worth... Fedora/rawhide [PPC: updated daily] does not have this problem. I have expended a number of cycles examining their src RPMs, looking for the magic patch that has not yet made it upstream. Didn't find a thing. -Joseph ================================================================== On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 13:37 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: > > > > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > > * build > > * install > > > > The bad news is I still see the error. > > You may need to > > 1. tar xvf gtk.tar.gz > 2. configure; make > 3. rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > 4. make > 5. make install > > I.e. let it build, then remove the header file, then build again. > > Federico > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From j@bitron.ch Wed Jun 7 14:51:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F443B069F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06395-02 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpanel02.rubas.net (cpanel02.rubas.net [62.216.182.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9B63B050C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 80-219-211-5.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.219.211.5] helo=[192.168.1.33]) by cpanel02.rubas.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fo37q-0007ap-TH; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:51:31 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrg?= Billeter To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:52:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel02.rubas.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - bitron.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.524 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.524 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:51:48 -0000 On Mit, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: >=20 > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > * build > * install >=20 > The bad news is I still see the error.=20 Should be fixed in CVS http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/Makefile.am?r1=3D1.309&r2=3D1.310 The patch applies to Makefile.in in the 2.9.2 tarball, too. J=C3=BCrg From matthias.clasen@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 16:30:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E6A3B00C7 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12519-04 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.204]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320F03B015D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 8so229327nzo for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:30:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=LYjL12EdChuw+lZQqGKA1cluImN0sNHjc01h7M8DGB+xDSg+wAumrDC8qg7n22LA/lC/uigEi4+t5IqDUuFSmksedxwnbaDjdRgoGguMEAsbS5PB9A6xS/kmGa5JyyVHxmWZXO5FxfTVWGLv4KceoGK0Z1/cNSLdk/Ro9eJn08U= Received: by 10.37.2.14 with SMTP id e14mr1202727nzi; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.14 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:23:57 -0400 From: "Matthias Clasen" To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.508 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.092, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.508 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Federico Mena Quintero , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:30:17 -0000 On 6/7/06, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I have a sense of humor. I will give that a try. > > For what it's worth... Fedora/rawhide [PPC: updated daily] does not have > this problem. I have expended a number of cycles examining their src > RPMs, looking for the magic patch that has not yet made it upstream. > Didn't find a thing. > I didn't fix it in 2.9.2-3, I worked around it by dumping in a correct gtkbuiltincache.h after unpacking the tarball (look for SOURCE2) Matthias From matthias.clasen@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 17:43:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF013B062C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17008-09 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820093B0CA4 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so306896nzo for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=d+WFIAUU5OYshLt/IV/hRwTCOUzbrliGiCWI9t7E5m8mUfO5PB8UcfRVB6ZzKpXTvLIWf1aPeQ2SRftAAEeAodIgYJj6gy3hqZrARMmMa4m9m/dEEg0HMuHwnt1d4ue6VI+jhy4eMqhjRBqUklfQl2VSUy8zwfpgpm7JME0IY+o= Received: by 10.36.121.19 with SMTP id t19mr1310096nzc; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.14 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:07 -0400 From: "Matthias Clasen" To: "Matt Keenan" In-Reply-To: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.47 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.47 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 21:43:11 -0000 On 6/7/06, Matt Keenan wrote: > Hi, > > What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME community ? > > Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is > this something that people > see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better > solution ? > > As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the > moment we really would like > to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the > preferred format is a > necessity. > The few man pages that are shipped with the glib and gtk api docs are in docbook now, which has the advantage that we can easily include them in the api docs, too. Matthias From federico@ximian.com Thu Jun 8 21:30:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACED93B04DB for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18212-01 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043353B0E3D for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19069 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2006 01:30:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?164.99.120.169?) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Jun 2006 01:30:03 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrg?= Billeter In-Reply-To: <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 20:25:50 -0500 Message-Id: <1149816350.30645.108.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 01:30:09 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 20:52 +0200, Jürg Billeter wrote: > Should be fixed in CVS > > http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/Makefile.am?r1=1.309&r2=1.310 Excellent catch, like swatting flies with a whip. Thanks for the fix :) Federico From frandavid100@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 09:51:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61263B0423 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18107-06 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214C53B0229 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so301601uge for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=MDFIZQJpAQibpDfJtY5XAuqiQNe2+Fhc5gvr2qEhTEJuP+sClW+mqb7679oTHoDc00/RZxajkdJTWDwv8wW6EiY+Yjzlcq+PjsOsXMSMxaclaW/V9ZnuTDcAG7wX6lKocTAaZhXBLV0E6kkOOnsnBnKcG3rgLWAm8SY1pGymIgQ= Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id u9mr530800ugg; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.103? ( [84.123.96.251]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id q40sm998482ugc.2006.06.07.06.51.49; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:49 -0700 (PDT) From: David Prieto To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:47 +0200 Message-Id: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 06:37:00 -0400 Subject: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:51:54 -0000 Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it goes: First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run these programs together. As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, internet, epiphany. It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea (middle-click), epiphany. What do you think about it? Here's the original post: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/48788 From johan@svedberg.com Fri Jun 9 06:54:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC263B0121 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16742-01 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.acc.umu.se (mail.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.156]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9A33B0004 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF6652 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from suiko.acc.umu.se (suiko.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.162]) by mail.acc.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C3327 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: by suiko.acc.umu.se (Postfix, from userid 24225) id A174C803; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 From: Johan Svedberg To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at acc.umu.se X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:54:38 -0000 * Jun 09 12:37 David Prieto : > Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it > goes: > > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my > e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run > these programs together. > > As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, > internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, > internet, epiphany. > > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? You could ofcourse create desktop shortcuts or panel launchers for the applications you use most frequently. But I like the idea, another alternative might be to add a "Run application" in the right-click menu. -- Johan Svedberg, johan@svedberg.com, http://johan.svedberg.com/ From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Fri Jun 9 06:54:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05FBD3B1041 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16715-02 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B24F3B0121 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-05.sun.com (d1-emea-05.sun.com [192.18.2.115] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k59Asee9009449 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:54:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-05.sun.com by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0L00K019O99Q00@d1-emea-05.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from dhcp-226-200.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.226.200]) by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0L00J4MAB3EQ10@d1-emea-05.sun.com>; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:35 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: David Prieto Message-id: <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Organization: Sun Microsystems Ireland Ltd. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.583 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.583 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:54:46 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51 +0200, David Prieto wrote: > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse button, as not everyone has one. In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are always run when you log in? Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From jan@jgc.homeip.net Fri Jun 9 07:52:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94903B1073 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20462-09 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.fastline.no (mx2.fastline.no [82.134.2.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698923B01A7 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) X-SMTP-Auth: no Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.fastline.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1B6A00041F for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx2.fastline.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx2.fastline.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 10287-01-2 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xciton-pc2 (a80-126-167-165.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.126.167.165]) by mx2.fastline.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0ECBA000409 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Jan de Groot To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:52:29 +0200 Message-Id: <1149853949.4427.0.camel@xciton-pc2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.3.2 (20050629) (Debian) at mx2.fastline.no X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.578 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.578 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:52:28 -0000 On Fri, 2006-06-09 at 12:54 +0200, Johan Svedberg wrote: > You could ofcourse create desktop shortcuts or panel launchers for the > applications you use most frequently. But I like the idea, another > alternative might be to add a "Run application" in the right-click > menu. That, together with the middle click, just like the "open link in new tab" feature in most browsers. From ktirf@users.sf.net Fri Jun 9 09:30:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1DD63B031E for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27240-08 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from delta.deserv.net (delta.deserv.net [83.102.151.66]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A0293B0003 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.119.253.205] (helo=[10.232.104.122]) by delta.deserv.net with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Foh4a-0003JR-0k for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:30:48 +0400 Message-ID: <448977EC.3040905@users.sf.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:30:20 +0400 From: Alexey Rusakov User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-Id: ktirf@nale.ru X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.503 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.503 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:30:30 -0000 Calum Benson wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51 +0200, David Prieto wrote: > > >> It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch >> the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click >> applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea >> (middle-click), epiphany. >> >> What do you think about it? >> > > I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you > shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse > button, as not everyone has one. > What about Ctrl-LeftClick and Ctrl-Enter as alternatives? Anyway, ... > In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit > better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding > three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all > three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are > always run when you log in? > ... this is a good question :) -- Alexey "Ktirf" Rusakov From xavier.bestel@free.fr Fri Jun 9 11:52:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BFFF3B024A for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03877-05 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp13.wanadoo.fr (smtp13.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E543B026D for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from awak.dyndns.org (AGrenoble-152-1-21-70.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr [82.122.20.70]) by mwinf1304.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1F9B6700008B for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:52:32 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060609155232129.1F9B6700008B@mwinf1304.orange.fr Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=capoeira ident=stunnel4) by awak.dyndns.org with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1FojIE-0000uL-00; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:53:02 +0200 From: Xavier Bestel To: David Prieto In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:52:28 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.283 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.283 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 15:52:35 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51, David Prieto wrote: [...] > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your multiselections. Not that I advise using several mouse buttons at once. Xav From mpt@myrealbox.com Fri Jun 9 13:28:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1EA3B0268 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09915-07 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leucothea.redline.site5.com (leucothea.redline.site5.com [216.118.97.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827E73B011B for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ool-44c0bc13.dyn.optonline.net ([68.192.188.19] helo=[192.168.0.5]) by leucothea.redline.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fokm3-000296-RA; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:27:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <2873c7c3e7a66e8562d38938161412e1@myrealbox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Matthew Paul Thomas Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:26:46 -0400 To: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV. X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - leucothea.redline.site5.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - myrealbox.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:28:03 -0000 On Jun 7, 2006, at 9:51 AM, David Prieto wrote: > ... > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read > my e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually > run these programs together. You can set these programs to run automatically when you log in, using the "Startup Programs" tab of the "Sessions" preferences. (This could be much more obvious than it is, for example by giving the control panel a name better than "Sessions".) You can also add the programs to the panel at the top/bottom of the screen by clicking on an empty part of it (if there is one) with the right mouse button (if you have one) and choosing "Add to Panel...". (Again, this could be much more obvious than it is. For example, it should show up when you search the help for "how can I start programs quickly".) -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ From frandavid100@gmail.com Fri Jun 9 15:04:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74B83B00E9 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14795-04 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF323B009F for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so598739nfe for ; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=TDtsoF1S0IXExUOckOSPJ6L4SnxSBbw786CXC1ndr+VxKZgYeje5qx7P11UN3LkGDhYHCfV80q30mhUWDoV3egDP2esip+uQBLnrkcBHjtfwFaTgR/FrNj292b5eejPlWanVL+zj76zZQv61da7Nof8Kkt3xt0+Bxr8klD22wWQ= Received: by 10.48.238.9 with SMTP id l9mr2640423nfh; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.103? ( [84.123.96.251]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id l21sm1702180nfc.2006.06.09.12.04.43; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: David Prieto To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 21:03:36 +0200 Message-Id: <1149879816.5224.2.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 19:04:47 -0000 I'm sorry, I replied to Calum instead of sending my mail to the list: _____________________________________________________________________ > I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you > shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse > button, as not everyone has one. Well, in Nautilus for example you can open a folder while closing its folder if you double-click on it with your middle button OR if you double-shift+left-click. Why not do the same here? Users without a middle button could just use shift+left-click as a replacement. > In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit > better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding > three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all > three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are > always run when you log in? Well, those are quite subjective reasons but I don't like launchers on the panel, aesthetically. Besides, I use only one panel and space is scarce on it. Creating a launcher for all three programs would not be very useful since I could want to launch just two of them (epi could be already open), or I could want to launch amule too. It's just not flexible. About setting them to launch when logging in, I already said it in my first message: I could just be somewhere else and yet be logged in, maybe because amule is running. Then I could get to the computer and want to read the forums, get my mails... you get the point. I know my reasons could be minor for some, but well, they're good for me. From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Sun Jun 11 05:05:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580113B00DC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30987-09 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DC093B0092 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.11] helo=salmon.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 11 Jun 2006 10:03:54 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:03:53 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: David Prieto In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.592 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.592 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:05:07 -0000 On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, David Prieto wrote: > Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:47 +0200 > From: David Prieto > To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Subject: opening a program with the middle button > > Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it > goes: > > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my > e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run > these programs together. > > As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, > internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, > internet, epiphany. > > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? Mozilla allows you to bookmark groups and open several pages at once. Perhaps we need a way to create a launcher which launches more than one program? (I guess you could do that using a script.) Alternatively you could either set those programs to automatically start every session, or more easily save your session on logout so it comes back up the same when you login. I've done similar things this way in the past. -- Alan H. From sri@aracnet.com Sun Jun 11 11:44:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251F43B0125 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16813-02 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B6B3B008B for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-21-239-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.239.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5BFgSHT018681; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:42:29 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Willie Walker In-Reply-To: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:41:41 -0700 Message-Id: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.339 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.049, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.339 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sri@aracnet.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:44:49 -0000 So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? sri [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it seems kind of early to me. On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:21 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > Hi All: > > We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would like > to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal to > include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the missing > features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also done a > fair amount of stability and testing work. > > We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on > orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html > > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > Gnopernicus: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html > > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > address the issues that arise. > > Thanks! > > Will > (Orca project lead) > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Sri Ramkrishna From sri@aracnet.com Sun Jun 11 11:49:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001E13B00E0 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16636-10 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ruby.spiritone.com (ruby.spiritone.com [216.99.193.130]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759C03B0084 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-21-239-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.239.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by ruby.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5BFlwTA018262; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:47:59 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:47:11 -0700 Message-Id: <1150040831.16558.6.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.407 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.116, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.407 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sri@aracnet.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:49:30 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 10:03 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > > What do you think about it? > > Mozilla allows you to bookmark groups and open several pages at once. > Perhaps we need a way to create a launcher which launches more than one > program? (I guess you could do that using a script.) Anything that would require programming would not be very user friendly. I wonder if something like "launcher group" or something where you can create a launcher that runs many programs in sequence with the option of having each application start depending on whether the last application actually ran. The value is still somewhat questionable in creating such a thing. I'm not sure if many people would use such a thing. Sometimes I wish we could add such features via plugin for some enterprising 3rd party to write. sri -- Sri Ramkrishna From shaunm@gnome.org Sun Jun 11 14:15:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA23D3B01A2 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27106-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.wolfram.com (webmail.wolfram.com [140.177.205.37]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F493B0195 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from recto.housenet.network (DHCP-74-136-213-67.insightbb.com [74.136.213.67] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by webmail.wolfram.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5BIDn5t008851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:13:50 -0500 From: Shaun McCance To: sri@aracnet.com In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:13:42 -0500 Message-Id: <1150049622.16073.14.camel@recto.housenet.network> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.106, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 18:15:20 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 08:41 -0700, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > sri > > > [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it > seems kind of early to me. The mail from Thomas Friehoff at Baum[1] is pretty much a clincher. If the Gnopernicus team is behind Orca, and favors Orca being Gnopernicus's successor, then it really isn't a question of "if", only "when". What we need to think about now is the migration path for our users. Many users have vested time and resources into making Gnopernicus work for them, so unless we can have a completely seamless forced transation (a difficult thing to do), we are going to see users using Gnopernicus for some time. So we do need to consider how we're going to accomodate those users as we shift stuff over to Orca. This means thinking about our accessibility control panels, how we present our accessibility tools to the users, and how we're documenting our accessibility stack. Perhaps an IRC meeting could be set up among the Orca developers, the Gnopernicus developers, and a couple of user interface and documentation people. Hash out a plan, report it back to the community, and make it happen. I'm excited. Are you excited? I'm excited. Let's make good things happen. -- Shaun [1] This one: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:21 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > > Hi All: > > > > We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would > like > > to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal > to > > include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the > missing > > features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also > done a > > fair amount of stability and testing work. > > > > We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on > > orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html > > > > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > > Gnopernicus: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > > > as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html > > > > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to > the > > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is > still a > > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to > adoption > > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > > address the issues that arise. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Will > > (Orca project lead) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > desktop-devel-list mailing list > > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > -- > Sri Ramkrishna > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From danilo@gnome.org Sun Jun 11 15:27:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 323E13B01BF for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30006-01 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from avet.kvota.net (unknown [147.91.15.40]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A100D3B00F7 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by avet.kvota.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 882887C2A4; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:06:24 +0200 (CEST) To: sri@aracnet.com References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> From: danilo@gnome.org (=?utf-8?q?Danilo_=C5=A0egan?=) Mail-Followup-To: sri@aracnet.com, Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:06:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> (Sri Ramkrishna's message of "Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:41:41 -0700") Message-ID: <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:27:37 -0000 Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. Who are we to argue them? ;) Cheers, Danilo From newren@gmail.com Sun Jun 11 19:06:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC5C3B0253 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07553-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.195]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B4103B01CC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so906381wxd for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=fiCZ1GWCGSwxPYc+Wf7HtEdlTKk8eW/Ob7qlq52akIeZ/Ni6ap/5Ds64jor+Jdc7/Jl8P7zXudzyaVaCjbTRTEk2s1QnbwKDPSsO0Zk+94ETijxhEa2rverDJCpnloHBkRMhENFP5zm6Cb/PAiy+//TcZTXdMVuHzvte1bmEf/g= Received: by 10.70.62.1 with SMTP id k1mr5817701wxa; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.89.16 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 17:05:43 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: sri@aracnet.com In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.465 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_JH=0.077, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.465 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:06:46 -0000 On 6/11/06, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? I did respond[2] but I think your email points out some potential confusion in the community worth addressing. > [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it > seems kind of early to me. Actually, (application) module proposal time has come and passed. We're now in the extended module evaluation period. In past releases, the proposal deadline and module freeze were so close together that we weren't ever even close to actually meeting the module freeze deadline. The decision would always come like a month afterwards when we were deep into freezes. So, we changed things this time around[3]. As per the release schedule[4], new application modules needed to have been proposed by April 24th; we have a longer module evaluation period, module discussion will heat up on July 10th to discuss any lingering issues, the release team meets the following week with the community input, and module choice is frozen July 24th. I believe all the modules that have been proposed have been added to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Desktop and http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Bindings. If anyone spots a missing module, please add it. Also, it'd be great if everyone could build and test the proposed modules[5]. Thanks, Elijah [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-June/msg00009.html [3] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-April/msg00000.html [4] http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen [5] Along those lines, I updated the meta-gnome-proposed module in jhbuild just this last week to assist with that. However, it's missing gtk-sharp and tomboy, which should probably be fixed somehow. It's similar to the missing gtk2-perl and gtk-java issue, which I also don't know quite how to solve. I'm pretty sure there's a bug I filed somewhere with some advice from James that I said I'd follow up on but which I never got around to. From murrayc@murrayc.com Mon Jun 12 02:39:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC333B015B for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22320-05 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com (webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com [66.33.201.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA1A3B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.murrayc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5C02C21B; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 194.138.18.132 (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user murrayc@murrayc.com) by webmail.murrayc.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:38:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> In-Reply-To: <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:38:41 +0200 (CEST) From: "Murray Cumming" To: sri@aracnet.com, "Willie Walker" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.52 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.52 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 06:39:40 -0000 > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of confusion. Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? > Who are we to argue them? ;) Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 05:43:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE3203B00A6 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28785-07 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FCE13B00E6 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5C9hNTO024786 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 03:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J0Q00F01QZPDT@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:43:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-176.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.176]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J0Q002ILR0ARL@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:43:22 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:44:30 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, gnome-18n-list@gnome.org Message-id: <1150105469.7019.1.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: ATK and AT-SPI branched for gnome-2-14 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:43:59 -0000 Hi: ATK and AT-SPI have branched for gnome-2.14. New stuff is on HEAD, stable development should use the 2-14 branch. I haven't made a new release since the branch yet, perhaps today (AT-SPI HEAD depends, for the moment, on ATK HEAD). regards Bill From sbrabec@suse.cz Mon Jun 12 05:51:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944163B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28662-09 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.suse.cz (styx.suse.cz [82.119.242.94]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9660E3B000D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hammer.suse.cz (hammer.suse.cz [10.20.1.86]) by mail.suse.cz (SUSE CR ESMTP Mailer) with ESMTP id 3AD7062805F; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Stanislav Brabec To: Xavier Bestel In-Reply-To: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: SuSE CR, s. r. o. Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:06 +0200 Message-Id: <1150105806.13727.15.camel@hammer.suse.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:51:09 -0000 Xavier Bestel wrote: > Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: > right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the > right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your multiselections. > > Not that I advise using several mouse buttons at once. It was a nice feature allowing to do more actions in the menu during one rolling down. And a nice Amiga Multiselect utility also enabled multiple selections outside menu, in file lists, file managers etc. without using of Shift button: - Place mouse pointer over the first item you want to select - Press left button - Keep the left button pressed and press right button - Release left button, keeping right button pressed - Use left button clicking to add toggle items selection, keeping right button pressed - Release right button Both these features I often miss in GTK+. -- Best Regards / S pozdravem, Stanislav Brabec software developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SuSE CR, s. r. o. e-mail: sbrabec@suse.cz Drahobejlova 27 tel: +420 296 542 382 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 296 542 374 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 10:42:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D43A3B009D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06770-05 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0743B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-09.sun.com ([192.18.2.119]) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CDrF4H002463 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-09.sun.com by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00L012HDZ700@d1-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([129.150.117.3]) by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R0014U2KQRX50@d1-emea-09.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:10 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Xavier Bestel Message-id: <681C6D4D-8762-49C9-9187-3DCBF1B04022@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.582 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.016, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.582 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:42:37 -0000 On 9 Jun 2006, at 16:52, Xavier Bestel wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51, David Prieto wrote: > [...] >> It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch >> the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click >> applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea >> (middle-click), epiphany. > > Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: > right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the > right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your > multiselections. Yep, that was handy alright... in fact you can do that in GTK menus too, but only if you use the keyboard: Space will check the focused checkbox/radiobutton menu item and keep the menu open; Enter will check it and close the menu. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From jdub@waugh.id.au Mon Jun 12 14:13:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A90F3B0386 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23613-04 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710B83B07BD for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net [150.101.121.112]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C552C3C432 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:03 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3C4D940DB; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:00 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:00 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060612180600.GA22122@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-23-686 i686 Reply-By: Fri Jun 16 04:05:44 EST 2006 X-Uptime: 04:05:44 up 11 days, 3:57, 7 users, load average: 0.37, 0.18, 0.11 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:13:45 -0000 > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. See the background on a11y list. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Compassionate Conservative: I don't know what that is, sounds like a Volvo with a gun rack." - Robin Williams From DonScorgie@Blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jun 12 14:15:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843013B00FD for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23885-01 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D4D3B0738 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.143] (helo=anti-virus02-10) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Fpqro-0008HB-Vo for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:10:25 +0100 Received: from [82.41.205.39] (helo=[192.168.1.1]) by asmtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1Fpqrl-00080P-6Q for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:10:21 +0100 From: Don Scorgie To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:11:05 +0100 Message-Id: <1150135865.11844.7.camel@Madaline> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.517 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.517 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:15:33 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: > > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? The gnopernicus maintainers commented on the ocra list (linked to in this thread somewhere): http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Don > > > Who are we to argue them? ;) > > > Murray Cumming > murrayc@murrayc.com > www.murrayc.com > www.openismus.com > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From newren@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 15:08:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50EF53B0345 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26293-10 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B048A3B0343 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1028979wxd for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=TgVzJyw224nRJqXUuu+ThZrYi2XXmnlbm/MRSEN8qb2JI2E2qmGazGo/Wt994nfgnZRbDS6Lz76e+I4uqmsAya1REm1V9JJUjL1aj+jeskwwsoYUJvLb83onPB5WO5DLLgjqPXvsZ1w7ERN/+Cb5Id03ai+G3rD7i55tA+0ETcM= Received: by 10.70.14.5 with SMTP id 5mr3881692wxn; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.89.16 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606121207vad8be21t6b0782b3159c835b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:07:33 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Murray Cumming" In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:08:32 -0000 On 6/12/06, Murray Cumming wrote: > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html (Which Will linked to in this post: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-June/msg00008.html) From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 15:27:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 662903B00E5 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27322-03 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B2CA3B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-06.sun.com ([192.18.39.116]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CIohjx021697 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-06.sun.com by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00101FW17D00@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.26.228] by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R00CEDGCI6530@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:42 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: Murray Cumming Message-id: <448DB782.2070303@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:27:15 -0000 Hi Murray , >>> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we >>> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? >>> >> It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, >> especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. >> > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? > Please see this message from Thomas Friehoff, the VP of Engineering at BAUM, maintainers of Gnopernicus: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. From shaunm@gnome.org Mon Jun 12 16:04:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8775F3B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28570-06 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wolfram.com (mailhub.wolfram.com [140.177.10.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E573B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shaunmlx.wri.wolfram.com (shaunmlx.wri.wolfram.com [140.177.4.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by wolfram.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CK3UoC010479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:03:31 -0500 From: Shaun McCance To: Murray Cumming In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:03:30 -0500 Message-Id: <1150142610.22619.0.camel@shaunmlx> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:04:30 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: > > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? Right here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html -- Shaun From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 18:42:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909A03B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01759-06 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710533B00A5 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-05.sun.com (d1-emea-05.sun.com [192.18.2.115] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CMe23L023927 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-05.sun.com by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00H01LMM9J00@d1-emea-05.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([194.125.72.67]) by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R00DP3QYQQZ60@d1-emea-05.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:02 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:39:58 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Murray Cumming Message-id: <6516EFE3-F4F7-49C8-B0D9-B73C8C4E2DC7@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.56 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.56 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:42:34 -0000 On 12 Jun 2006, at 07:38, Murray Cumming wrote: > >> Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: >> >>> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). >>> Are we >>> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? >> >> It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, >> especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. Shaun posted the evidence earlier in the thread :) http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From gnome@nextreality.net Mon Jun 12 23:35:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088263B0009; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08673-05; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E478D3B0010; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 5FE5E35904; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:34:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id C501C35901; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 21:34:30 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: release-team@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list , GNOME Documentation , gnome-i18n@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500001, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_LR=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: bug buddy branched X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:35:51 -0000 Bug buddy has been branched. gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From andrew@operationaldynamics.com Tue Jun 13 01:51:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151553B0150 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12131-02 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay02.pair.com (relay02.pair.com [209.68.5.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B40DB3B0120 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13902 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2006 05:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO procyon) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 13 Jun 2006 05:43:56 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 150.101.122.233 From: Andrew Cowie To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Operational Dynamics Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:59:18 +1000 Message-Id: <1150174758.5806.4.camel@procyon.operationaldynamics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.144, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_BG=0.077, TW_GT=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: Subject: What up, java bindings? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:51:33 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 17:05 -0600, in a thread originally about "Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16", Elijah Newren wrote: > [5] Along those lines, ... > It's similar to the missing gtk2-perl and gtk-java issue, which I also > don't know quite how to solve. Oh? What's up? More to the point, what do you need us to do? Not that we have large team, but I'll do my best. ++ As an OT aside: our libraries are called glib-java, cairo-java, libgtk-java, libgnome-java, libglade-java, and libgconf-java being our release set at the moment, with libvte-java, and libeds-java joining this cycle. They're all on ftp.gnome.org. Quite the grab bag, with most following the libBLAH-java pattern, which was I believe at the request of the GNOME release team of the day when they multiplexed the previously straight forward "java-gtk" and "java-gnome" into the above mess. Before my time. A number have people have pointed out that naming like glade-java, along the lines of what the Mono boys and girls used (glade-sharp) would be nice. I agree, but at this point, given that the distros all adjusted their packages about 18 months ago when java-gnome shattered into its constituent pieces, that changing the naming pattern would be a large and painful change without that much benefit. [Not that I needed the scars to reinforce the obvious, but I was doing the Gentoo ebuilds then and it was quite a pain to shuffle and create that many new packages. I am quite conscious of the cost of change especially when it comes to package naming, etc. Given the enormous hassle it is to prepare up 6 headed for 8+ libraries every time we cut a java-gnome release, I'm not in a rush to add to my problems.] So, libBLAH-java it is... unless, as a part of a GNOME wide cleanup, we adopt a common naming scheme for bindings packages. If that's the case, then I'm sure the powers that be can align the stars to get package names changed in every distro simultaneously. Yup. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Technology strategy, managing change, establishing procedures, and executing successful upgrades to mission critical business infrastructure. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ Sydney New York Toronto London From danilo@gnome.org Tue Jun 13 05:17:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58993B008F for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17857-05 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from supa.sekjur.com (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7FE3B000A for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D81421F205; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown by localhost (amavisd-new, unix socket) id client-EFXCVfB9; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.121] (dhcp-87-116-155-154.marshall-bg.customer.sbb.co.yu [87.116.155.154]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2CAD21F1F3; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Danilo Segan To: Murray Cumming In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sekjur.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:17:28 -0000 У пон, 12. 06 2006. у 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming пише: > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. As pointed to in original e-mail: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html "We support the Orca team's proposal to make Orca the default screen reader / magnifier on the GNOME desktop in GNOME 2.16 - and for Orca to be the spiritual and logical successor to Gnopernicus." Perhaps I am trusting e-mail exchange too much? (Though, I don't think I am ;) > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? No, I didn't mean it like that. Though, if they didn't actually send the above message (we all know how easy it is to forge e-mail headers), they'd have certainly replied so far. Cheers, Danilo From William.Walker@Sun.COM Tue Jun 13 11:55:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468343B000C; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28918-08; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E903B00D9; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-02.sun.com ([192.18.108.176]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5DFsBuL025314; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0T00J012NLRP00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM); Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0T009D82UA4MV4@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:54:09 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Danilo Segan Message-id: <1150214050.5017.16.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: Cc: sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Murray Cumming Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:55:14 -0000 > No, I didn't mean it like that. Though, if they didn't actually send > the above message (we all know how easy it is to forge e-mail headers), > they'd have certainly replied so far. I can assure you that the message is indeed for real as we've had telephone conversations with Thomas and the Gnopernicus team regarding this transition. In addition, if it were fake, I can assure you that I would also let you know. Thanks! Will From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Tue Jun 13 16:27:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6215E3B03D8 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05552-08 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E17C3B03F0 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-06.sun.com ([192.18.108.180]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5DKQxAT005525 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0T00501EYOJY00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0T009Q0FGXLT93@mail-amer.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: GNOME Desktop Message-id: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.703 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.639] X-Spam-Score: -1.703 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 20:27:55 -0000 As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video plugins are currently in beta-test. http://shop.fluendo.com/ While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed to a per-use license). They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the desktop market. In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that represents such a small percentage of desktop users. Is this worth exploring? Brian From rbultje@ronald.bitfreak.net Wed Jun 14 15:47:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DF33B0112 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10759-04 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (unknown [24.29.109.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D623B01B6 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (cpe-66-65-0-167.nyc.res.rr.com [66.65.0.167]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5EJjjTm009201; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: "Ronald S. Bultje" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:43:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 (2.2.3-4.fc4) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:47:12 -0000 On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). [..] > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald From sri@aracnet.com Thu Jun 15 00:34:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CCB3B00CA for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11360-03 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [216.99.193.114]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC40D3B00B7 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [127.0.0.1]) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5F4XmTw009989; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:48 -0700 Received: (from sri@localhost) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k5F4XkZ5009987; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: "Ronald S. Bultje" Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 04:34:09 -0000 On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could license it. I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have probably heard it before. :-) sri From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Thu Jun 15 17:16:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995B83B00D0 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00998-06 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF1E3B006C for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5FLFCvC005262 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0X004016M4PP00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0X00AK171AVSV0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-reply-to: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: Sriram Ramkrishna Message-id: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.521 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.521 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:16:15 -0000 >>> Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a >>> license with the GNOME community >> >> Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Is there a more appropriate forum for discussing a topic like this? Apologies if my previous email was inappropriate. I certainly do not want to encourage the GNOME community to violate any important ideals. Obviously one ideal that it wouldn't violate is giving our end-users the best desktop experience possible. It seems a bit hard to really do this without finding and supporting creative ways to allow popular desktop IP to integrate with the desktop. But "allowing" IP to integrate doesn't mean that the GNOME community needs to support it financially, obviously. I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. I just wanted to mention the idea and see if there might be interest. From the responses, it seems like there isn't much. But that is fine since end users can go to the Fluendo store to purchase the plugins directly if they want them. > I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have > probably heard it before. :-) While I certainly understand it would be bad for the GNOME community to support non-free projects at the expense of free projects, I didn't think I was suggesting anything that would detract from free software. If enough users/companies are willing to pony up the money to pay for a license, then this isn't taking away from money earmarked for other free projects. In fact, the Foundation could reasonably insist that some extra money to fund free projects would be required for them to consider supporting a non-free project. Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely make free software more popular rather than less. Since the license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't work well. The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate with the desktop. Fluendo is already doing this, so to a degree the need is being met. Really the opportunity to work more closely together only makes it more affordable for everyone. Brian From thomas@apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 07:29:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFD53B0007 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27074-01 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.es6.egwn.net (server02.es6.egwn.net [195.10.6.12]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731023B000B for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net (server07.fr4.egwn.net [62.39.85.77]) by mx1.es6.egwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9EF4F82E3; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 5261F83C17; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server07.fr4.egwn.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16333-39; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thread.fluendo.lan (core.fluendo.com [195.10.6.237]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 46C3683C14; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thomas.fluendo.lan (thomas.fluendo.lan [192.168.1.10]) by thread.fluendo.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A96BFE8F; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:10 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Thomas Vander Stichele To: Sriram Ramkrishna In-Reply-To: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:08 +0200 Message-Id: <1150457348.23862.202.camel@otto.amantes> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: By amavis at egwn.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.683 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_SBL=3.16] X-Spam-Score: 0.683 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:29:46 -0000 Hi, > On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > > to a per-use license). > > [..] > > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > > license with the GNOME community > > > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Where is the start of this thread ? Nobody I've asked seems to have anything before Ronald's mail. Thomas From thomas@apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 10:31:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32B83B0076 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31386-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.es6.egwn.net (server02.es6.egwn.net [195.10.6.12]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163283B0011 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net (server07.fr4.egwn.net [62.39.85.77]) by mx1.es6.egwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E544F8353; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id AED6483C18; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server07.fr4.egwn.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18233-24; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thread.fluendo.lan (core.fluendo.com [195.10.6.237]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 9CCCD83C14; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thomas.fluendo.lan (thomas.fluendo.lan [192.168.1.10]) by thread.fluendo.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20788FE8F; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Thomas Vander Stichele To: "Ronald S. Bultje" In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:54 +0200 Message-Id: <1150468254.23862.219.camel@otto.amantes> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: By amavis at egwn.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.683 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_SBL=3.16] X-Spam-Score: 0.683 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:31:37 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 15:43 -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. I agree with Ronald (though violate is overstating it :)) that this should not be done by the GNOME foundation as such. It would make sense for a group of distributions to team up in some form to do this - but the GNOME Foundation should be about Free Software. (For those of you like me that didn't get Brian's original mail - he was asking what people think about the possibility of some distributors giving money to the GNOME foundation so that the GNOME foundation could pay the license fees for proprietary codecs) Thomas From jdub@waugh.id.au Fri Jun 16 13:08:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A48363B00E0 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07045-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8343B0131 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net [150.101.121.112]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2123C28B for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:13 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C1860200E6; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060616170703.GM17421@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Reply-By: Tue Jun 20 03:04:24 EST 2006 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-23-686 i686 X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Uptime: 03:04:24 up 15 days, 2:56, 9 users, load average: 0.13, 0.05, 0.02 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:08:00 -0000 > I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that > the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single > license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like > this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save > money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. It seems more appropriate that this be pursued by distributors and Fluendo themselves (distributing directly to end users) than GNOME. We don't control the integration or immediate end-user experience, so there's not a lot we can do that will directly impact users here - unless you can think of other opportunities. If you mean "us" to include all distributors as well, that is a different issue. :-) (btw, you wrote a very long mail for a few short points) - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "You can't just find cake. Cake isn't naturally occuring." - Penny Arcade From cjb@mrao.cam.ac.uk Fri Jun 16 15:50:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7F03B00DC for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18185-06 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk (mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk [131.111.48.8]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8473B0074 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skye.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.48.158] ident=mail) by mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FrKJZ-0001YY-20; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:09 +0100 Received: from islay.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.48.119]) by skye.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1FrKJY-0004jt-00; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 To: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> From: Chris Ball Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> (Brian Cameron's message of "Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Social Property, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , Sriram Ramkrishna , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:50:09 -0000 >> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Brian Cameron said: > Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely > make free software more popular rather than less. Since the > license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be > terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't > work well. "Those who would give up freedom to purchase a little temporary popularity deserve neither." I think that Sriram's right about talking to the distributions. You'll find that most (Fedora, etc) have already committed to not ship patent-encumbered codecs regardless of whether a license is available, though. See, for example, the lack of success ESR had with suggesting that Fedora license an MP3 decoder: http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2006-March/msg01286.html - Chris. -- Chris Ball From murrayc@murrayc.com Fri Jun 16 17:51:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6923B0106 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22708-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarthymail-a5.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-176.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.176]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB5B3B01D2 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noname (p5497EE72.dip.t-dialin.net [84.151.238.114]) by swarthymail-a5.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B6E109EAC; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Murray Cumming To: Brian Cameron In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:50:21 +0200 Message-Id: <1150494621.5811.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.481 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.118, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.481 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , Sriram Ramkrishna , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:51:08 -0000 On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 16:15 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: [snip] > The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with > multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate > with the desktop. [snip] Ignoring the rest of this thread, the start of which hasn't reached my inbox yet... We are not against "Intellectual property", or copyright in general. This is the kind of phrasing I'd expect in a "Linux is for communists" article. We just like to license our copyrighted stuff in a particular way, and generally prefer software that does that too. So I think you really need to avoid this odd terminology, if it's not what you mean, or understand. Murray From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Fri Jun 16 18:13:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56933B04E4 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23880-02 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3029D3B05DF for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-03.sun.com ([192.18.108.177]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5GLTqdA022116 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0Z00F012706I00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0Z00JL52DRY1G0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:29:54 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-reply-to: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: thomas@apestaart.org Message-id: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.703 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.639] X-Spam-Score: -1.703 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:13:13 -0000 Thomas: I was going to point you towards the archives, but the GNOME archives seem all messed up - no emails before today. Here was my original email. It seems after the responses, that there is little interest in providing encumbered plugins on GNOME distros. While not exactly the answer I was hoping for, I appreciate people exploring the idea and explaining the state of affairs to me. Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. Brian Brian Cameron wrote: > > As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP > plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video > plugins are currently in beta-test. > > http://shop.fluendo.com/ > > While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs > (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that > the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows > IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if > users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). > > They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use > UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the > plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all > UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the > desktop market. > > In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization > like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could > be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian > Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible > if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked > out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME > distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich > experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in > donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? > > As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have > similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own > RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount > of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real > with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely > that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and > RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in > a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems > it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if > they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that > represents such a small percentage of desktop users. > > Is this worth exploring? > > Brian > From newren@gmail.com Fri Jun 16 19:33:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C7A43B06BB for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27362-02 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4A83B06CE for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so554080wxd for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.132.14 with SMTP id f14mr4808064wxd; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.102.9 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:26:36 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_TK=0.077, TW_YG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:33:40 -0000 Hi everyone, This is just a quick email to ask for help in improving the dogfoodability of our tarballs and CVS. See the lists below my verbose explanation if you want to jump to the details. :) Currently, buildability from either tarballs or CVS is pretty poor; I wouldn't consider either in a dogfoodable state. Most of it is just small things that are easily fixed, but it really adds up. We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we just fix the modules??"). There have also been multiple cases where we have had to revert modules to older versions. It's worth noting that not all is bad -- a quick search shows that there are over two dozen build bugs that have been fixed in the last week and that's only counting the ones that I filed. So people are definitely working hard on this. We'd just like to ask for some extra help where possible to clean up the remainder of the issues (in fact, a bunch of them already have patches...). Luis also wanted me to say: I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole release until they are all fixed. The email should stress that time-based releases only work if the code is dogfoodable all the time. I'd suggest requesting a volunteer to scream at d-d-l every time tinderbox breaks. IMHO, publicly shaming those who break the build is the only way you're going to achieve regular buildability- bugzilla is insufficient. Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gtkmm 344788 (and 344787) simple build warnings gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-vfs 344349 checks for selinux aren't robust gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x pygtk 344845 (probably fixed now by pygtk-2.15.2) deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) Problems in non-release-set modules: ----------------------------------- rhythmbox 343718 partially fixed, but fix has new problems rhythmbox 345036 last released tarball won't build under 2.15.x From rdepantalon@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 19:52:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDEE3B000C for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03892-01 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372463B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so2191648nzo for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=kSddZwdPfx/WyIQpZeK81Xawz3TozY9KqS04dlWboeOVpJ3aaRLpDx/0dYKz3/feqSN+r6rxBHrdlPTaPOIWO4MsPINgNKuMajC4hM/g6nVo62d/l708y/OXodJ0MXIk/YSGVlYs3vVaS56GB65uLTQU0IOaufzFWiJhplelOpo= Received: by 10.36.216.6 with SMTP id o6mr2797570nzg; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.15.72 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:52:01 +0200 From: "Rousseau de Pantalon" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.804 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_00_10=0.795, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.804 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:30:21 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:52:53 -0000 ------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Gnome Developers, I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version. End-users hate decisions. In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd. Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown. Step back. Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested. Step back. Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns. This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do. Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out. This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful. It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John ! Now for the good news: I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell. I like it very much. Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it. Kind regards, Rousseau de Pantalon. ------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Gnome Developers,

I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version.
End-users hate decisions.
In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd.

Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown.
Step back.
Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested.
Step back.

Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns.
This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do.

Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out.
This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful.
It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in
much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma.

I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John !

Now for the good news:
I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell.
I like it very much.

Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it.


Kind regards,
  Rousseau de Pantalon.


------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237-- From james.henstridge@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 05:39:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 294AE3B06EB for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16649-01 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27B33B06B7 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so605960wxd for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.30.12 with SMTP id d12mr5397726wxd; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 17:37:17 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Rousseau de Pantalon" Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 20cb2d36a3ec3620 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.585 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.585 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:39:03 -0000 On 13/06/06, Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. > It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of > devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in > much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. > > I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John > Ellis: Thanx John ! Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective with hotplugable hardware, since you don't need to configure separate applets for each drive. Furthermore, the new applet works better with the rest of the desktop: 1. it can see all the drives that Nautilus can 2. it can unmount a volume even when a Nautilus window is open for the volume. If it is missing drives, that would mean that Nautilus can't see those drives in its "computer" view either. This would be a bug to fix in gnome-vfs (which would fix both the drive mounter and Nautilus). James. From decaycell@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 09:41:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5333B013A for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23044-07 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4693B00A6 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so1975371uge for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.9 with SMTP id c9mr23610ugj; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.0.0.7? ( [217.132.240.49]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id y7sm4378445ugc.2006.06.17.06.40.32; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A Framework for Desktop Syndication From: Yaron Tausky To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:07 +0300 Message-Id: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.042 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.042 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:41:23 -0000 Hi, I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps if you think this is all rubbish. :-) On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. -- Yaron Tausky From davyd@bridgewayconsulting.com.au Sat Jun 17 12:36:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D143B0165; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27617-08; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au [203.56.14.38]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164FF3B0083; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A7FE22E8004; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 (WST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 From: Davyd Madeley To: release-team@gnome.org Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.263 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-2.742, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=0.827, RCVD_IN_WHOIS_BOGONS=2.43, UNIQUE_WORDS=2.347] X-Spam-Score: 0.263 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:13 -0000 On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the new libxklavier). --d -- Davyd Madeley http://www.davyd.id.au/ 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Sat Jun 17 15:14:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B47B3B00FD; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04221-08; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F663B010F; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060617191412m1200a7tike>; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:14:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Davyd Madeley In-Reply-To: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:11 -0400 Message-Id: <1150571651.7998.6.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.654 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.345, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.654 X-Spam-Level: Cc: release-team@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:14:57 -0000 The only people who do do not make mistakes are dead. We do appreciate your contributions to open source. Onwards, -Joseph ============================================================================ On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 18:25 +0800, Davyd Madeley wrote: > On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > > > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x > > I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the > new libxklavier). > > --d > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From dodji.seketeli@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:10:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245C03B0178 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06436-02 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.193]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEBBB3B0207 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so598956wxd for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.32.20 with SMTP id f20mr5883880wxf; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.1 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:10:05 +0200 From: "dodji Seketeli" Sender: dodji.seketeli@gmail.com To: "Yaron Tausky" Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> X-Google-Sender-Auth: c517aee610ca8ae6 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.151, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:10:24 -0000 Hello, This sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe you should bring the developer of applications like liferea into the loop. There is certainly something to be shared with them. This kind of API could simplify the code base of apps like liferea and allow other applications to provide syndication to their users, at a very low development cost. Dodji. On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: > Hi, > I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the > use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified > intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's > database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is > for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can > think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. > I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think > there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps > if you think this is all rubbish. :-) > > On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this > seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to > do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not > integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. > > -- > Yaron Tausky > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From nudrema@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:33:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6F53B0337 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07353-02 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp40.mobistarmail.be (smtp40.mobistarmail.be [193.252.23.61]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFED3B0061 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (unknown [212.224.135.202]) by mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A9A00700008B; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060617203111694.A9A00700008B@mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be Message-ID: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:08 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060612) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rousseau de Pantalon Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.971 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.441, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.069] X-Spam-Score: -1.971 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:33:01 -0000 Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. Well, it actually is, especially when you don't show volume icons on your desktop (it's more convenient than showing the "network" place to unmount the volume) This reminds me of two issues : the impossibility to show *only* the volume icons (and not the remote location ones, see bug #159245), and the missing context menu of the places menu (yeah, context menu of menu sounds weird, but it would be great to be able to unmount a volume by right-clicking on its entry in the places menu...) From gnome@nextreality.net Sat Jun 17 18:35:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD3C3B0485; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13210-09; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A40DF3B0321; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 361E035904; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:34:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C8335901; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:34:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44948375.80400@nextreality.net> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:34:29 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: release-team@gnome.org Subject: Re: bug buddy branched References: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> In-Reply-To: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_LR=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-i18n@gnome.org, GNOME Documentation , desktop-devel-list X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:35:21 -0000 This never made it to my mailbox, so I am resending. Brent Smith wrote: > Bug buddy has been branched. > > gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release > HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development > will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From jdub@waugh.id.au Sun Jun 18 06:13:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29A53B0776 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17209-03 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 406B33B015A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (unknown [81.80.162.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5E23D85D for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:11:51 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8D347410D; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:11:48 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:11:48 +0200 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet Message-ID: <20060618101148.GB19478@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 i686 Reply-By: Wed Jun 21 12:09:21 CEST 2006 X-Uptime: 12:09:21 up 53 min, 5 users, load average: 0.11, 0.17, 0.24 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.543 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.543 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:13:17 -0000 > Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to > the radio-buttuns. I was pushing for a solution that sits somewhere in the middle of those points for Ubuntu, but for various reasons the single dialogue approach was taken. Separate dialogues for 'turn off' and 'log out' make sense, but making them very distinct (as with the Ubuntu or better, Windows XP) dialogues would be a great incremental improvement to what we already have in 2.14. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ Perl: Making thick Windows admins redundant since 1987. From jdub@waugh.id.au Sun Jun 18 06:42:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72523B0AF0 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19039-06 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96AB3B09F2 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (unknown [81.80.162.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EEC83D862; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:14:05 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 09DF2410D; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:14:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:14:03 +0200 From: Jeff Waugh To: Elijah Newren Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: Elijah Newren , Gnome Desktop Development List References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 i686 Reply-By: Wed Jun 21 12:12:38 CEST 2006 X-Uptime: 12:12:38 up 56 min, 5 users, load average: 0.14, 0.15, 0.21 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:42:49 -0000 > We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with > each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we > just fix the modules??"). ... 8< ... > Luis also wanted me to say: > I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to > release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole > release until they are all fixed. Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release management process, cf. signature. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak From lists@edmack.com Sun Jun 18 07:29:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBE73B0321 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20926-05 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vega.idns2.com (vega.idns2.com [85.92.70.238]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DD63B02EF for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [83.245.47.174] (helo=[10.0.0.10]) by vega.idns2.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FrrTK-0004l5-4d; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:26 +0100 Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication From: Ed Mack To: Yaron Tausky In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:12 +0100 Message-Id: <1150614792.8849.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - vega.idns2.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - edmack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:15 -0000 > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified Perhaps you should look into getting the D-BUS interface standardised through Free-Desktop so that applications can rely on it outside of Gnome. Ed Mack From 5madfarmers@gmail.com Fri Jun 16 18:41:21 2006 Return-Path: <5madfarmers@gmail.com> X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82673B0382 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24905-05 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8303B022B for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c39so718501pyd for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.37.18 with SMTP id p18mr5094493pyj; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.28.4 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:35:01 -0500 From: "5 Mad Farmers" <5madfarmers@gmail.com> To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Need an icon and stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:55:10 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:41:21 -0000 First, sorry for the noise but I figure this is the correct list. I'm about 1/3 done with a program that is GPL and intended for Gnome users. "DVD Juicer" not that I'm a name mimic or anything. The program is just a simple C wrapper (gtk of course) around extract/transcode type tools and the program itself isn't linked to any questionably licensed libraries - it calls external programs. It aims for simplicity and the hope is the people that use it won't have to understand frame rates, codecs, yada yada yada. The program picks the main track (all can be selected) and the user just hits "record" and that's that. In any event I'm not very artistically gifted and am looking for somebody to develop an icon for it. I pretty much know what I'm after but don't have graphic skills. After that I guess I'm wondering about hosting issues. Assuming that I get it banged into useable state, at that point I'd be kind of wanting a mailing list and perhaps someplace to host a tarball, bugzilla too I guess. I'm not subscribed but lurk the list so if you're interested in the icon thing I'd appreciate an email. If somebody can point me to the details for web hosting issues I'd appreciate that too. Thanks for your time. ---- I didn't spend money on the optional funny tag line. Jeff Waugh used to have very funny ones so just paste one of his here. From fherrera@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 10:56:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CD83B0100 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31366-04 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D27AE3B0089 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2212674uge for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.9 with SMTP id c9mr919239ugj; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.13 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:48:42 +0300 From: "Fernando Herrera" Sender: fherrera@gmail.com To: "GNOME Desktop Hackers" Subject: Crash reports from GNOME bindings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3fe5fbd740cb679d X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.391 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.133, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.391 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 14:56:25 -0000 Hello, current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and Gtk# applications, so here is the question: Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for GNOME 2.16 release? Salu2. From luis.villa@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 11:37:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86C33B0CBB for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00472-10 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.194]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C753B0C12 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so668272wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.116.8 with SMTP id o8mr7058887wxc; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.10.19 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2cb10c440606180829g5729c210p27134929060a7073@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:33 -0400 From: "Luis Villa" To: "Fernando Herrera" Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.558 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.558 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:37:36 -0000 Larry Ewing swore to me he'd do this for mono... Larry? :) By the way, let me suggest that this is really critical for binding-based apps to mature. GNOME without bug-buddy would still be very unstable. Bringing bug-buddy to the people developing with your bindings is a *huge* bonus for them, even if they don't know it :) Luis On 6/18/06, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From gjc@inescporto.pt Sun Jun 18 12:02:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2537E3B0CC3 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01599-07 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from animal.inescn.pt (correio.inescn.pt [194.117.24.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233553B0CC5 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/7) with ESMTP id k5IG111T008021; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:01:01 +0100 (WEST) Received: from pong.inescporto.pt (pong.inescn.pt [194.117.26.74]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/5) with ESMTP id k5IG0rMG007976; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:00:54 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pong.inescporto.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AAE5119288; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:57:41 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings From: Gustavo Carneiro To: Fernando Herrera In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INESC Porto Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:00:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at inescporto.pt X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.389 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.389 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:02:01 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-18 at 17:48 +0300, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). Thanks and regards. > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From nudrema@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 15:25:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264F73B0115 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08453-02 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp40.mobistarmail.be (smtp40.mobistarmail.be [193.252.23.61]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5052F3B008F for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (unknown [212.224.135.11]) by mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D887F7000088; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:52 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060618192452886.D887F7000088@mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be Message-ID: <4495A882.2080608@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:50 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060612) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rousseau de Pantalon Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet References: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.973 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.443, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.069] X-Spam-Score: -1.973 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:25:59 -0000 Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > 1. > The fact that it can see all drives Nautilus can see *is* the problem. > (My harddrives and their partitions are *not* hot-pluggable -- are your's ?) > If I want to see *all* my partitions, mounted or not, I'll open the > Computer Icon. > An applet such as this should at least filter out harddisk-partitions > and only show removable (usb) devices. > Better yet, have a customizable filter on volume-label / id / > device-name or so. In fact, it looks like a bug in your side. Here I only have an icon for my floppy disk (which can't be mounted automatically) and my CD or USB drive when I put them in... My permanent partitions (and I have several of those) don't show up. > 2. > The user cannot filter the devices / partitions shown. Does not matter since only the non-permanent ones should be shown. The icon appears when I plug my USB drive in, or when I put a CD in my CD drive, and then disappears after unmounting/ejecting it. > 3. > All Icons look alike. > It's just a replica of the Computer Icon. > One cannot assign icons to distinguish devices. Once again it looks like a bug. Here (Ubuntu Dapper, Gnome 2.14) I have a different icon for CD and for floppy. > ON THE RIGHT is a panel with the pre-2.10 applet representing my: > - floppy-drive > - pendrive #1 (floppy-disk-size -- bootable) > - the 64MB XD card in my printer > - my 256MB pendrive > - my other 256 MB pendrive > - my 750MB zipdisk > - my DVD-ROM player > - my DVD-writer > - my USB 5G mini-harddrive > - my MP3-player's internal 256MB memory > - my MP3-players 512MB SD extension BTW are you sure you don't have all those in your fstab and let hal/udev/whatever do its job ? It looks weird to me to have that many different usb drive placeholders... I guess not. The previous applets had that issue of not being friendly with this auto-configuration stuff: it wasn't possible to make one show up when you plug an USB drive. Actually, this works even if you've never used a USB key before. Looking at my fstab, I can see I have an entry for my CD-ROM drive, and for my IDE hard drives. That's all. Not even a line for my floppy, nor usb drives. > I propose the following: > - A filter in which the user can select the mountable devices to be > shown on the panel. > - The ability to attach a meaningful (custom) icon that represents the > device. > - Falling back to fstab if mounting/unmounting using udev/hotplug does > not do the trick. > - Make famd more aware of Nautilus created files/folders like > .Trash----- and thus not blocking unmounts. Maybe you should fill it as a bug in bugzilla if you think it's really useful to some people. -- Steve http://tw.apinc.org From benoit@placenet.org Sun Jun 18 16:21:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 381A33B000A; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09725-01; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ibook.free.fr (benoit.placenet.org [82.241.234.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81BA3B0071; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ibook.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B6458DF; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:52 +0200 (CEST) Subject: gnome-system-monitor has been branched From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Beno=EEt?= Dejean To: gnome-i18n@gnome.org, gnome-doc-list@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, release-team@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1" Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:51 +0200 Message-Id: <1150658211.603.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:21:23 -0000 --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The stable branch is gnome-2-14 and the development branch is HEAD. --=20 Beno=C3=AEt Dejean JID: TazForEver@jabber.org GNOME http://www.gnomefr.org/ LibGTop http://directory.fsf.org/libgtop.html --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Ceci est une partie de message =?ISO-8859-1?Q?num=E9riquement?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_sign=E9e?= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBElaajliyxJIUSPQoRAtcDAJ9JZw+cTZKTWNXZBBYFCtnpm/kJuQCeO14Y Kl72P/ZsSyMPW7l+8680xm8= =ubQu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1-- From fherrera@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 16:36:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CEBD3B00AF for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09616-05 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B8E3B000A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2273703uge for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id u9mr4817144ugg; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.13 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:35:18 +0300 From: "Fernando Herrera" Sender: fherrera@gmail.com To: "Gustavo Carneiro" Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 105387f1bb21b58d X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.51 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.090, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.51 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:36:18 -0000 On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed by bug-buddy after the bug report. I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. Salu2 From james.henstridge@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 22:13:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C8B3B02DE for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20489-08 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.205]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2019D3B0196 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so718551wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.15.4 with SMTP id 4mr1982726wxo; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:47:45 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Alan Horkan" , "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: b5f0f0028f3b89ab X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.589 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.589 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:13:50 -0000 On 19/06/06, Alan Horkan wrote: > > Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find > > to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective > > Dont know what the original commenter disliked about the applet but I > found it annoying that the icons are set to be generic looking drives > ("mystery meat") to start with, even though each button is assigned to > specific device type. Only when the drive is mounted change to look like > CD/USB/Floppy etc and that little bit of extra guesswork/memorisation is > something I could do without. That is something that might be worth fixing. The drive mount applet gets all the drive images from gnome-vfs (using gnome_vfs_drive_get_icon and gnome_vfs_volume_get_icon). If gnome-vfs is changed to provide better icons for unmounted drives/volumes, that will fix their display in the applet and Nautilus. James. From paolo.maggi@polito.it Mon Jun 19 03:28:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4733B0DB7; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30352-05; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from polito.it (anacreon.polito.it [130.192.3.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE963B0BA0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:21 -0400 (EDT) X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's FindAttachments (free) Received: from [82.105.171.149] (account d003505@polito.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by anacreon.polito.it (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPSA id 39168140; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:03 +0200 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Paolo Maggi To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.41 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.41 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:28:53 -0000 Hi, I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the languages name (the iso_639 module). I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? Ciao, Paolo From Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM Mon Jun 19 05:50:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D13CA3B0004; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02234-10; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EB03B008F; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-02.sun.com (d1-emea-02.sun.com [192.18.2.112] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5J9nVFW019335; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-02.sun.com by d1-emea-02.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1300C01PF1AF00@d1-emea-02.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.150.120.119] by d1-emea-02.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J13006BTPYFPW88@d1-emea-02.sun.com>; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:30 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:27 +0100 From: Darren Kenny Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-reply-to: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sender: Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM To: Paolo Maggi Message-id: <44967327.4060809@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060602) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:50:46 -0000 Has anyone looked into the use of Tim Fosters (yeah Glynn's brother) open language tools? https://open-language-tools.dev.java.net/ I know they are in Java, but this is the main point of what it addresses - the sharing of translations - while it doesn't have the "server" functionality, it does go some way to supporting the idea of sharing of translations. Darren. PS - I'm no expert in L10N or I18N, so please excuse my ignorance... Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? > > Ciao, > Paolo > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From james.henstridge@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 06:40:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC373B008F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04861-01 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8272D3B00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so171003wxd for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.130.3 with SMTP id c3mr8315800wxd; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:39:56 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Paolo Maggi" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8275e60f19f7fc95 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:40:48 -0000 On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't be presented as such to the user. James. From ArC@gulic.org Mon Jun 19 06:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7685C3B00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05102-08 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es [193.145.138.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D52433B008F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (Postfix, from userid 43062) id 57E74C00E0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:07 +0100 (WEST) Received: from savor.gulic.org (gulic.ulpgc.es [193.145.155.10]) by smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14619C00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:07 +0100 (WEST) Received: from socios.gulic.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by savor.gulic.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3048C415B for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 (WEST) Received: from phpmailer ([217.126.206.203]) by socios.gulic.org with HTTPS (PHPMailer); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org From: Alberto Carlos Ruiz Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication Message-ID: <3acf4f39f60be389c617b40fbe1978cb@socios.gulic.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.71] X-Mailer: FeLaMiMail version 0.9.5 Organization: gulic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-PostfixSecure-Antispam: valid X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.444, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:47:21 -0000 dodji Seketeli escribi=C3=B3:=20 Hi there I've been working around using feed syndication on the desktop, in fact = I've wrote a little app to syndicate art.gnome.org brand new atom format, to automatic install backgrounds from the site, Jilorio, (http://aruiz.synaptia.net/siliconisland/2006/05/jilorio_feed_fo.html) Gtk and metacity themes are also planned. While I was writting the app, I was wondering how could I centralize the feed agregation since I would use several feeds, and I've been thinking another uses of feeds around the desktop. So I think that a solution like this could rock to approach a "live desktop" which can change using the internet content. >Dodji. > >On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: >> Hi, >> I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the >> use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of = a >> daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified >> intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's >> database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is >> for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I = can >> think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. >> I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think >> there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps >> if you think this is all rubbish. :-) >> >> On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this >> seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to >> do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not >> integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. >> >> -- >> Yaron Tausky >> >> _______________________________________________ >> desktop-devel-list mailing list >> desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list >> >_______________________________________________ >desktop-devel-list mailing list >desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From isak.savo@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 08:36:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F2A3B0C86 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11267-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qb-out-0506.google.com (qb-out-0506.google.com [72.14.204.234]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2013B3B0D60 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id e11so84670qba for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.124.12 with SMTP id b12mr4271765qbn; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.181.6 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50b611120606190510hac0a14cvabbe1aa3b0de5193@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:10:26 +0200 From: "Isak Savo" To: "James Henstridge" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:36:29 -0000 2006/6/19, James Henstridge : > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. This is also what the FSF states on their license page[1]. That page also contains links to already translated versions of the three GNU licenses. They are unofficial though, in the sense that it is the English version that what counts in court. Isak [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#UnofficialTranslations From alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk Mon Jun 19 08:37:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A663B0C86; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11302-04; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (unknown [81.2.110.250]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E433B0C98; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5JCpUKM004774; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:30 +0100 Received: (from alan@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5JCpTFs004773; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: alan set sender to alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk using -f Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Alan Cox To: James Henstridge In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 Message-Id: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.59 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.59 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:37:01 -0000 Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a foreign language will not find much favour. The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less important property. The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. Translations really should include a translation of the license text where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that the American English version is the authorative document for legal purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and what rights you have given them. Alan From rosechr@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 12:32:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48553B01C6 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20459-06 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.174]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C7C3B0196 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2608745uge for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.16 with SMTP id 16mr2246685huw; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.12 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:31:50 +0200 From: "Christian Rose" Sender: rosechr@gmail.com To: "Paolo Maggi" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 276aabd410967e48 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.32 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.280, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.32 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:32:39 -0000 On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least for the short License declarations (like "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: 1) Most common widget and menu names are already defined (and translated) in GTK+. A "License" button would be the same thing. 2) If there was an "add a license dialog to my app" API for developers to use, it would make sense to allow a template for the short declarations of most common licenses to be used. If run in a non-English locale, also display a non-official translation if it exists. 3) External dependencies that help translation (like the iso_639 module) are very useful, but developers are often not aware of it, and for obvious reasons they try to avoid unnecessary dependencies, so in practice, few applications make use of them. > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? It is a real problem. I've lost track of how many times I have manually copied the unofficial Swedish translation of the "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..." "This app is GPL"-style declaration blurb into different applications. Even more exciting since different applications format the texts differently (with or without newlines and/or markup, different amount of spacing, etc) and give different addresses to the FSF (the FSF changed address at least once), so the number of variants in use is enormous... A "do it once, do it right" convenience API for developers to use for this would be a big plus, for both developers and translators. Christian From sri@aracnet.com Mon Jun 19 15:04:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 429B43B00DB for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27155-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [216.99.193.114]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F076F3B01DA for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [127.0.0.1]) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5JJ3HTw003291; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:17 -0700 Received: (from sri@localhost) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k5JJ3GPQ003289; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060619190316.GI7996@aracnet.com> References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.563 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.563 X-Spam-Level: Cc: thomas@apestaart.org, GNOME Desktop X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:04:41 -0000 On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 04:29:54PM -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" > attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to > purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather > than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially > if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I > don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made > yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make > a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. My advice to you is to sit with the other distributions and figure out how to do it from a "GNU/Linux platform" perspective. You can't be the only company who wants to have proprietary format work "out of the box" I don't know if there is a "distro summit" but that would be the first place I would hit to start pushing for this kind of thing. But doing it from the GNOME project perspective doesn't seem very likely. So it's exactly what you're planning to do now, but it would be the distributions not the GNOME project. True it complicates the task, but if distributors want to grow their share of the desktop market they'll probably want to opt into your idea. Besides, it's a great way to get some good press by leading. :-) sri From gnome@nextreality.net Mon Jun 19 22:12:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85613B036C for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17303-05 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1B93B00C4 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id B3CAB35904; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:11:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0F8F35901; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:11:39 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:11:48 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fernando Herrera Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.023, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gustavo Carneiro , GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:12:35 -0000 Fernando Herrera wrote: > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Any security implications there? -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From behdad.esfahbod@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 23:40:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57FC63B0E8D for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20798-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481263B0E65 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so1088126wra for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.112.1 with SMTP id k1mr6865222wrc; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.190.5? ( [72.136.156.47]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 64sm4643160wra.2006.06.19.20.39.51; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Behdad Esfahbod To: Christian Rose In-Reply-To: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:39:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1150774790.14758.3.camel@home> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 (2.6.1-1.fc5.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: Behdad Esfahbod X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:40:43 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 12:31 -0400, Christian Rose wrote: > On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least > for the short License declarations (like "This program is free > software; you can redistribute it and/or > modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: I replied to this thread, but seems like it didn't make it through the list. I've been working on exactly what you suggest in this bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336225 A couple of technical questions remain open, but you get the idea. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" From james.henstridge@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 03:07:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1303B0ECF for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31382-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hu-out-0102.google.com (hu-out-0102.google.com [72.14.214.195]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C833B0EFC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hu-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 24so655028hud for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.8.15 with SMTP id 15mr9925328wxh; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:58:48 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Alan Cox" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d5d09b8fe4015615 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.042 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.042 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:07:10 -0000 On 19/06/06, Alan Cox wrote: > Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > > be presented as such to the user. > > True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a > foreign language will not find much favour. > > The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the > code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less > important property. > > The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. > Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot > exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, > oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. > > Translations really should include a translation of the license text > where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that > the American English version is the authorative document for legal > purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. > > Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and > what rights you have given them. Those are good points, and it sounds like a good idea to show an unofficial translation along with the real license. But it needs to be clear that if the translation and the english text differ that the english text be considered authorative. This is particularly important if the translated text is displayed when the user asks the app what its license is. James. From paolo.maggi@polito.it Tue Jun 20 04:21:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA53E3B0306; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02498-06; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from polito.it (anacreon.polito.it [130.192.3.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F463B0008; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's FindAttachments (free) Received: from [82.105.171.149] (account d003505@polito.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by anacreon.polito.it (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPSA id 39199418; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:44 +0200 Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Paolo Maggi To: James Henstridge In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:40 +0200 Message-Id: <1150791580.5512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.44 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.44 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:21:22 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 18:39 +0800, James Henstridge wrote: > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. I don't want to show in the License dialog the entire license text but only the good old "This program is free software... [snip]....You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program..." snippet. I agree with you translations of license text could be problematic. But I don't think this is the case since the text only says which is the license and where to find it. Ciao, Paolo From gjc@inescporto.pt Tue Jun 20 07:09:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183533B05ED for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10580-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from animal.inescn.pt (correio.inescn.pt [194.117.24.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55F93B0450 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/7) with ESMTP id k5KB8Ngq012815; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:23 +0100 (WEST) Received: from pong.inescporto.pt (pong.inescn.pt [194.117.26.74]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/5) with ESMTP id k5KB88pn012723; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:08 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pong.inescporto.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B2AAEB66; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:04:51 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings From: Gustavo Carneiro To: Brent Smith In-Reply-To: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INESC Porto Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:08:06 +0200 Message-Id: <1150801686.6052.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at inescporto.pt X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.427 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.427 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Fernando Herrera , GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:09:25 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 20:11 -0600, Brent Smith wrote: > Fernando Herrera wrote: > > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > > > > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then > the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Sounds good. > > Any security implications there? None that I can see. -- Gustavo Carneiro INESC Porto From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 11:06:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298EF3B0135 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21825-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.239]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923863B00E9 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so1191720wra for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.136.11 with SMTP id j11mr644636wrd; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:06:07 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: About Unix Power for Gnome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: d7d7ccabfc274142 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:06:50 -0000 Hi all, I'm brand new here so first of all I'll present myself. My name is Christian, I'm from italy (really near Venice) and I've finished university (computer science) last October, of course I'm a free software user and enthusiast (actually using Debian on my desktop and Ubuntu on my notebook, both with Gnome as desktop environment). For my master thesis I've done a work that probably fit quite well with the Unix Power for Gnome problem raised by Rodrigo Moya about one year ago (http://blogs.gnome.org/view/rodrigo/2005/08/19/0). Last week I've published the project born from my thesis on sourceforge at http://sflux.sourceforge.net The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application. What I've thought is a way to describe a computer system (documents, applications and operations) using Semantic Web technologies (RDF/OWL/Sparql) so that S-Flux (the application I've done) can understand what operations can be done on a particular document(s) using the applications installed on the system, create a pipeline of operations and actually perform them. On the site you'll find a couple of screencast too, 'cause I know my english is not so good so seeing is better than reading :-) The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about it. Thanks a lot for the attention, ciao! Christian. From paolo.bacchilega@libero.it Tue Jun 20 12:45:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39F33B01C9; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29388-10; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp7.libero.it (smtp7.libero.it [193.70.192.90]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8D93B0EA1; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (172.16.1.8) by smtp7.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 4464C609038C90BE; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:44:55 +0200 Received: from smtp0.libero.it ([172.16.1.204]) by localhost (asav9.libero.it [193.70.192.87]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20713-03; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:44:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [151.53.96.255] (unknown [151.53.96.255]) by smtp0.libero.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FAAD3355E9; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:00 +0200 (MEST) Subject: file-roller branched From: Paolo Bacchilega To: Desktop Devel , GNOME Documentation , GNOME I18N List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:45 +0200 Message-Id: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: with antispam and antivirus automated system at libero.it X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.691 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708] X-Spam-Score: -0.691 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:45:03 -0000 Hi, the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. Regards, Paolo. From harmon@ksu.edu Tue Jun 20 12:49:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B223B0E2A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29748-09; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.cc.ksu.edu (smtp2.cc.ksu.edu [129.130.7.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52133B05F8; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [129.130.11.189] (dhcp19.user.cis.ksu.edu [129.130.11.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp2.cc.ksu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5KGnCK5017430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:49:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:50:20 -0500 From: "Scott J. Harmon" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060601) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paolo Bacchilega Subject: Re: file-roller branched References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1551/Tue Jun 20 08:37:21 2006 on virusfilter2.cc.ksu.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , GNOME Documentation , Desktop Devel X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:49:17 -0000 Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > Hi, > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture changing bugs... > Regards, > Paolo. > Thanks, Scott. From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 12:53:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C653B0CE7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30222-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCEE33B0F2A for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so390349wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.130.3 with SMTP id c3mr10723588wxd; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:53:35 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Scott J. Harmon" Subject: Re: file-roller branched In-Reply-To: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , Desktop Devel , GNOME Documentation X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:53:44 -0000 On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > Hi, > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > changing bugs... Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get freeze break approval) ;-) From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 13:36:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513113B00B7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00401-02 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.200]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F333B016D for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so396333wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.78.15 with SMTP id a15mr8688279wxb; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:35:47 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Elijah Newren" , "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs In-Reply-To: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:36:21 -0000 On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > management process, cf. signature. > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both (There is a patch but claims nss has to be disabled for e-d-s for it to work) Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html (Frederic Peters has a patch for this) evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) From murrayc@murrayc.com Tue Jun 20 14:28:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DA53B0188 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04324-10 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarthymail-a4.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-98.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.98]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082073B0499 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noname (p5497DB9C.dip.t-dialin.net [84.151.219.156]) by swarthymail-a4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A788129A8A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs From: Murray Cumming To: Elijah Newren In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:28:20 +0200 Message-Id: <1150828100.6261.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.482 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.117, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.482 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:28:27 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 11:35 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > > management process, cf. signature. > > > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: For really simple things, I think the release-team should just go ahead and fix it, and retarball where necessary, if you can't get a maintainer to do it. (Please, would the release team finally just go ahead and release a libglade 2.6.0 tarball?) -- Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From gnome@nextreality.net Tue Jun 20 22:39:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F893B0591 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00452-03 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE0F3B058E for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 6350235904; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E8E35901; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4498B158.8020609@nextreality.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:39:20 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Elijah Newren Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:10 -0000 Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: >> Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release >> management process, cf. signature. > >> "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be >> like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: > > [snip] > gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h Invoking build sheriff privileges. 2006-06-20 Brent Smith * configure.in: add GTK+ to PKG_CHECK_MODULES so the include path for GTK is specified in the cflags; patch from Elijah Newren, fixes #344695 -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From alexl@redhat.com Wed Jun 21 03:43:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94583B0AF9; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17803-09; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582E73B0E2A; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hjpZ001040; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:45 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hjGc003626; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:45 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hh2W014630; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:44 -0400 Subject: Re: file-roller branched From: Alexander Larsson To: Elijah Newren In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:43:43 +0200 Message-Id: <1150875824.16397.66.camel@greebo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , GNOME Documentation , Desktop Devel X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:43:53 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 10:53 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > > changing bugs... > > Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are > bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or > would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get > freeze break approval) ;-) I'm slightly annoyed at this listing of rules for when you need to branch. There is also the fact that 2.14 is *stable* and fixing bugs can destabilize it as much as adding features can. If you're unsure of the stability of bugfixes its very nice to be able to commit them to a branch immediately and then move the important and stable fixes to the stable branch. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl@redhat.com alla@lysator.liu.se He's a benighted zombie photographer who hides his scarred face behind a mask. She's a wealthy cigar-chomping fairy princess on her way to prison for a murder she didn't commit. They fight crime! From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 04:25:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D4F33B01E2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08370-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78233B0466 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so307952wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.21.9 with SMTP id 9mr2472173wxu; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:25:38 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 03c2f413749c9331 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:25:41 -0000 Really no opinion at all? Maybe something like: * "Good idea but..." * "I don't think that it can solve any problem" * "I really don't like it" * "What the hell is that thing?!" I'd really like to know your opinions. This is my first open project so any advice is really really useful. Ciao! Christian From danilo@gnome.org Thu Jun 22 04:58:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1E03B057D for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10849-01 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from supa.sekjur.com (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45B53B00C5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD61921F8CB; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown by localhost (amavisd-new, unix socket) id client-x7GIvx1J; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.134] (dhcp-87-116-155-154.marshall-bg.customer.sbb.co.yu [87.116.155.154]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520CD21F8C4; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome From: Danilo Segan To: Christian Barbato In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:58:35 +0200 Message-Id: <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sekjur.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.561 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.561 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:58:42 -0000 Hi Christian, У чет, 22. 06 2006. у 10:25 +0200, Christian Barbato пише: > I'd really like to know your opinions. This is my first open project > so any advice is really really useful. GUADEC[1], the Gnome conference, is starting in two days, and everyone is busy with preparations. :) You'll probably get your share of opinions once everything settles. Of course, you're welcome to join us in Vilanova i la Geltrú in Spain :) Cheers, Danilo [1] http://guadec.org/ From kalle.vahlman@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 05:02:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67BE83B0608 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11213-02 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EAAF3B0583 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so311544wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.1 with SMTP id r1mr2731910wxb; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.77.14 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <177e83dd0606220202qf17541eg57bf321e7a4e44d1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:02:12 +0300 From: "Kalle Vahlman" To: "Christian Barbato" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.163 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.437, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.163 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: zuh@iki.fi List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:02:17 -0000 2006/6/22, Christian Barbato : > Really no opinion at all? I think this is not the right medium for the opinions, this list is about developing GNOME, not talking about new applications (even if they do use/integrate with GNOME). The project itself sounds cool though, even if "The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application" doesn't sound like what it is really doing. Seems to me it's more like utilizing CLI programs in a GUI, and as such it only applies to stuff like image/sound/video conversions and other predefined non-interactive actions (not, for example, writing a document). -- Kalle Vahlman, zuh@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 05:35:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC663B00C5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13169-02 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80DBE3B00DE for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so315225wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.116.11 with SMTP id o11mr2771364wxc; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220235g7beadd90y7850879287ba1b68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:35:37 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: "Danilo Segan" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 643165173af50fa9 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:35:40 -0000 2006/6/22, Danilo Segan : > Hi Christian, > > > GUADEC[1], the Gnome conference, is starting in two days, and everyone > is busy with preparations. :) > > You'll probably get your share of opinions once everything settles. Of > course, you're welcome to join us in Vilanova i la Geltr=FA in Spain :) Thanks Danilo, it also seems that I've choosed the wrong mailing-list. Paolo Borelli suggested me gnome-love maybe I'll try there. And of course, I'd really LOVE to be there in Spain at GUADEC but I think I'm too late...maybe next year :-) Ciao! Christian From ruben@Lambda1.be Thu Jun 22 08:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49CC53B025B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26471-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from guri.is.scarlet.be (unknown [193.74.71.22]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32573B02A8 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ([62.235.142.250]) by guri.is.scarlet.be with ESMTP id k5MCks925486; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:55 +0200 Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5255F4604E4; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome From: Ruben Vermeersch To: Christian Barbato In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-DCC-scarlet.be-Metrics: guri 2020; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:47:21 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 17:06 +0200, Christian Barbato wrote: > The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to > deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about > it. Makes me think of Automator [1], which I've always liked as an idea (but never used it). The UI could use a lot of love though, you might want to check up with the HIG. The usefulness of this app will stand and fall with a good interface concept. Also, it should be made dead simple for apps to register their own hooks. Neat idea, but whether it's successful will be highly dependent on how it's worked out. Kind Regards, Ruben [1] http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/automator/ -- Ruben Vermeersch (rubenv) http://www.Lambda1.be/ From d2004@cosmopod.com Mon Jun 19 20:59:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672EA3B0319 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11366-08 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.cosmopod.com (unknown [216.75.2.64]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907E03B0E91 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.cosmopod.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by 64.cosmopod.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5K0vjXa023707 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:45 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by 64.cosmopod.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5K0vjP1023706 for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: 64.cosmopod.com: d2004 set sender to d2004@cosmopod.com using -f From: d2004@cosmopod.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Suggestions from a User Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:44 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.561 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_REAL_NAME=0.961, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -1.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:55:12 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:59:59 -0000 Dear GNOME Developers, I am an end-user wishing to supply some feedback/suggestions on improving o= ur=20 Desktop Environment. I have been using GNOME for quite a long time (first= =20 played with it in the 1.4 days and became a serious user with release 2.0/R= ed=20 Hat 8). I am however, just a user and have no development experience. I a= m=20 also new to this list, so if any of my comments or suggestions are ignorant= =20 or have already been discussed, please forgive me in advance. I was prompted to write this after reading the article in the latest GNOME= =20 Journal about end users: http://www.gnomejournal.org/article/46/the-gnome-community-end-users Hopefully, the following will provide some constructive and positive feedba= ck=20 on areas where the system can be improved. As noted, this is from a high-e= nd=20 user's perspective, (not someone particularly interested in keybindings on= =20 Metacity or the like! :-)) Here is my wishlist: 1. Evolution's spam filter is slow and not as efficient as that of=20 Thunderbird. Optimisation work in this area would be greatly appreciated. 2. When importing a single mail file into Evolution, displaying a list of= =20 files to select from shows the file name and the date but not the file size= =2E =20 Displaying the file size would make it easier to determine which file is=20 which, if there are a large number to choose from. 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for= =20 deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash= =20 rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universa= l=20 repository for deleted data. 4. A mail preview so that incoming messages could be seen without switchin= g=20 from other applications to Evolution all of the time would be appreciated. = =20 Outlook 2003 has a function whereby a message momentarily pops-up on screen= ,=20 allowing the user to see the name of the sender and the subject line. Such= a=20 pop-up may be annoying to some users; however, Google Desktop has an even=20 better solution whereby, in "Sidebar" mode, it displays a list of recent=20 mails on screen. Clicking on one allows it to be opened out and previewed.= =20 =46rom there, clicking on it again opens the actual message in Outlook. A= =20 similar mail preview system for GNOME would therefore result in people bein= g=20 able to see new messages without constantly switching between applications= =20 and also enable them to determine if a message was particularly important. 5. One feature I greatly miss from GEdit is a "block select" function to c= ut=20 and past "blocks" of mono-spaced text. KATE and gVIM have this functionali= ty=20 and, even for non-programmers, it is extremely handy. 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the user= is=20 entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only browser I know of=20 with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has it.) 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, the= =20 user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user wants to= =20 download multiple images from a page, without saving the whole thing. IT=20 also seems, from the usability studies I have read online that new and=20 inexperienced users have a reticence towards right-clicking. The various=20 usability studies I have read by Sun and Novell seem to indicate that peopl= e=20 often do not think to right-click to configure the clock or activate applet= s. =20 Therefore, functions that are present in right-click menus only, such as th= at=20 to save images in the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an ent= ry=20 to "Save All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I know th= at=20 it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) because I can run = it=20 successfully under kppp. However, attempting to configure it under GNOME=20 results in failure as it cannot be detected. This is annoying as, for one= =20 reason, it limits me from using a GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. = =20 kppp is a more than adequate workaround but it would be great for GNOME to= =20 also support these. I realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to=20 broadband but in my (first-world) country there are still many home users=20 with dial-up only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. 9. Also related to this, it is difficult to locate hardware configuration= =20 data under GNOME, such as ports and interrupts. KDE have a centralised=20 hardware browser that provides detailed system information for those seekin= g=20 it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather than= =20 later. 10. A font management system. I did some research and found a short=20 discussion here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2006-March/msg00203.html Indeed, lacking something even the equivalent of the Mac Suitcase is an=20 impediment. =20 11. As that same message notes, DTP is a hole on Linux at the moment. Whi= lst=20 there are a few good applications, such as Scribus and KreetingKard, to=20 appeal to two levels of developer, there are no GTK-based equivalents to=20 promote healthy competition. Such applications are rarely included on=20 distributions. Even Inkscape and Bluefish are often relegated to "extras"=20 repositories. It would be great if more work on consumer level DTP=20 applications could be undertaken. This does not necessarily mean tools=20 equivalent to the likes of Quark and Adobe but smaller programs such as tho= se=20 produced by Serif and Printshop. I realise this would take much time and=20 many resources though. Also, promotion of the likes of Inkscape so that they are more visible to=20 users and included in the "Core" disks of distributions like Fedora would=20 raise the profile of such projects. Perhaps you could lobby the Fedora=20 people? 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the spatial= =20 mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the need for a file= =20 MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming, printing lists of=20 directory structures and so on. Obviously such is readily done from within= =20 the Shell but it would be great if a GNOME tool could do the same. 13. For those managing small networks, it would be great to have=20 the /etc/MOTD file (Message of the Day) appear each time users log in. For= =20 example, if I had a small school network, there may be a message I would li= ke=20 the users to see. A small dialogue box displaying this file on login would= =20 be handy. Obviously, an ability to disable it would be needed and it shoul= d=20 not be activated by default or it would be intrusive to those people with=20 single-user systems. 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like the=20 concept of circular menus mentioned here: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html It seems likely that, by reducing mouse movements, they would improve syste= m=20 ergonomics. Another advantage would be that, in their uniqueness, they wou= ld=20 help to differentiate GNOME from the alternative desktops. Such uniqueness= =20 is always positive marketing, which is why I rankle when I read of certain= =20 parties wanting to make GNOME more similar to Windows. Whilst it may help= =20 users make a transition from WIndows, it does not help give them an incenti= ve=20 to move. GNOME needs to be unique and the care to detail and usability is= =20 part of what has already attracted many people (myself included.) By=20 combining thoughtful ergonomics with eye-catching (but non-distracting)=20 visual ideas, this should help gain an even greater user base. 15. My final request is a purely personal indulgence. It would be great t= o=20 have a GNOME chess game. With the Gnuchess engine available, I am surprise= d=20 no one has included a GTK-based GNOME game due to this pasttime's enduring= =20 popularity, so I would like to lobby for this! That is the sum of my input. I hope that at least some of my ideas are=20 helpful or generate constructive discussion. I look forward to your=20 feedback. I am a newbie here, so do not be too cruel! I realise that soe = of=20 these proposals would be huge work but they are simply ideas of things I=20 would like to see. Maybe next year, maybe in Topaz, maybe even beyond that= =2E =20 There is a lot of work but the GNOME community has already come a long way.= =20 Best wishes to everyone, Danni From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 09:24:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 855FD3B041B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30123-10 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.204]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DEE3B00B8 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so351325wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.1 with SMTP id r1mr3101621wxb; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220624g442a5c35u1392f8a9bff8f25d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:24:57 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: "Ruben Vermeersch" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5e57a2bb7844bd75 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:24:59 -0000 2006/6/22, Ruben Vermeersch : > > Makes me think of Automator [1], which I've always liked as an idea (but > never used it). Oh yes. Automator was announced when I was in the middle of my project. I felt so bad, thinking that I arrived late and someone else developed my idea. But then, when Automator was released, I've looked well at it and tried it too. There are many differences between SFlux and Automator, but probably the one that I care more about is that Automator don't hide the other applications on the system and don't filter out the proposed operations on the basis of the input document(s) (it can be seen as a list of all the operations of all the applications, SFlux actually filter them). > > The UI could use a lot of love though, you might want to check up with > the HIG. The usefulness of this app will stand and fall with a good > interface concept. Bingo! The actual UI is really bad and I have to dramatically improve it. > > Also, it should be made dead simple for apps to register their own > hooks. Bingo again! Thanks a lot for your opinions. Christian. From uws@uwsworld.xs4all.nl Thu Jun 22 10:05:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9163B07F7 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00570-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uwsworld.xs4all.nl (uwsworld.xs4all.nl [194.109.237.238]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E8A3B042E for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uws by uwsworld.xs4all.nl with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1FtPoE-0000V5-00; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200 From: Wouter Bolsterlee To: d2004@cosmopod.com Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User Message-ID: <20060622140525.GA1605@uwsworld.xs4all.nl> Mail-Followup-To: d2004@cosmopod.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> X-message-flag: Guvf zrffntr qbrf abg pbagnva rapelcgrq zrffntrf. X-PGP: key 0x250A63EB, fingerprint 83C5 C205 47AD 539D A4F0 60BF 3FB4 134E 250A 63EB X-Base: All your base are belong to uws User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040907i Sender: Wouter Bolsterlee X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:05:32 -0000 --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First of all, thanks for your input! P=C3=A5 Mon, Jun 19, 2006 at 05:57:44PM -0700, d2004@cosmopod.com skrev: > 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the us= er is=20 > entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only browser I know of= =20 > with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has it.) This feature is being worked on. You can search bugzilla for the bug report and add yourself to the Cc field to track progress. > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, th= e=20 > user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user wants = to=20 > download multiple images from a page, without saving the whole thing. IT= =20 > also seems, from the usability studies I have read online that new and=20 > inexperienced users have a reticence towards right-clicking. The various= =20 > usability studies I have read by Sun and Novell seem to indicate that peo= ple=20 > often do not think to right-click to configure the clock or activate appl= ets. =20 > Therefore, functions that are present in right-click menus only, such as = that=20 > to save images in the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an e= ntry=20 > to "Save All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. I think not many people will use this feature. Therefore it's unlikely that it will be implemented. A tip: just save the page to disk. All related files such as images and stylesheets will be saved to disk as well. > 9. Also related to this, it is difficult to locate hardware configuratio= n=20 > data under GNOME, such as ports and interrupts. KDE have a centralised= =20 > hardware browser that provides detailed system information for those seek= ing=20 > it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather tha= n=20 > later. Have you tried hal-device-manager? mvrgr, Wouter --=20 :wq mail uws@xs4all.nl web http://uwstopia.nl tell myself that i'm not ready yet :: i want to live -- heather nova --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEmqOlP7QTTiUKY+sRAvBsAJ9a45WezIlO/V1hu6kiJ+TwULIJIgCgjOfG vityiebrWNVfZMLvyKzGC7I= =EQ4+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv-- From john.williams.lists@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 01:07:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F683B0670 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15165-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90CE3B06B8 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 34so700008nzf for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.134.15 with SMTP id h15mr3169537nzd; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?202.150.121.117? ( [202.150.121.117]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 6sm3937185nzn.2006.06.22.22.05.57; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User From: John Williams To: d2004@cosmopod.com In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:09:14 +1200 Message-Id: <1151039354.9177.9.camel@office.falcon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.294 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.229, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.294 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 05:07:02 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 17:57 -0700, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I know that > it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) because I can run it > successfully under kppp. However, attempting to configure it under GNOME > results in failure as it cannot be detected. This is annoying as, for one > reason, it limits me from using a GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. > kppp is a more than adequate workaround but it would be great for GNOME to > also support these. I realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to > broadband but in my (first-world) country there are still many home users > with dial-up only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. Hi Danni, and thanks for your mail. At the risk of adding a trivial "me too" message, I would like to amplify your point above. I believe that our problem (I have a similar one) is part of a bigger picture for GNOME. It is this: Software developers, in general, appear to have (and develop on) higher-end systems than those of the average user. I am referring here in particular to CPU speed, RAM and network access speed. One of the many consequences of this is that GNOME networking applications and associated infrastructure are very, very poor at accommodating users with modems, and relatedly, with slow (57k, say) access to the Internet. Not only is it very hard (I have never managed to do it) to set up GNOME's modem tool (I have to use the Network Configuration tool, and log in as root as a consequence), once you are connected many applications have no idea how do deal with: (a) slow connection speeds; and (b) intermittent connectivity Issues related to this can be seen most clearly in Evolution, but also in yumex. In fact, I am about ready to give up on Evolution totally after having used it ever since its first release. I kept on hoping that it would improve, but years down the track it appears that due to the point I raise above (developers not walking in the shoes of users) it will never happen. Sigh. After all that, I would like to say a huge THANKS to all the GNOME developers for all the really, really good stuff that the GNOME community has produced over the years. GNOME is really cool. But let's face it: it's not ready for the (non-corporate, general user) desktop yet. From psankar@novell.com Fri Jun 23 02:04:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BB53B0262 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17962-01 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sinclair.provo.novell.com (sinclair.provo.novell.com [137.65.81.169]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E763B01D2 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from INET-PRV-MTA by sinclair.provo.novell.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:03:57 -0600 Message-Id: <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:03:49 -0600 From: "P Sankar" To: Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User References: <449A5BCF0200004800012AAE@sinclair.provo.novell.com> <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> In-Reply-To: <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.479 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2] X-Spam-Score: -2.479 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:04:04 -0000 Hi, Thanks a lot for your suggestions. On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 12:58 +0000, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > 1. Evolution's spam filter is slow and not as efficient as that of > Thunderbird. Optimisation work in this area would be greatly appreciated. You need to train the spam filter for a few days to make it work effectively. This will help to develop the spam-detection-knowledge. There has been a discussion going on about letting the user choose SpamAssasin or Bogofilter. You can peek at the discussion on http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-hackers/2006-May/msg00062.html > 2. When importing a single mail file into Evolution, displaying a list of > files to select from shows the file name and the date but not the file size. > Displaying the file size would make it easier to determine which file is > which, if there are a large number to choose from. The file-open dialog used in Evolution is the gnome-wide GtkFileChooser. I believe that people hacking on it would have noted this discussion and will provide the ability to customize the columns in the dialog soon. > > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for > deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash > rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universal > repository for deleted data. I am not sure if this will be useful. If you have a remote account (IMAP/Exchange/GW) we are left with no choice other than keeping the deleted items in the server, so that they will be accesible everywhere. So they need to be on the Trash-folder on the accounts. And it will be confusing to have different Trash folder behaviors for local and remote Trash folders. > > 4. A mail preview so that incoming messages could be seen without switching > from other applications to Evolution all of the time would be appreciated. > Outlook 2003 has a function whereby a message momentarily pops-up on screen, > allowing the user to see the name of the sender and the subject line. Such a > pop-up may be annoying to some users; however, Google Desktop has an even > better solution whereby, in "Sidebar" mode, it displays a list of recent > mails on screen. Clicking on one allows it to be opened out and previewed. > >From there, clicking on it again opens the actual message in Outlook. A > similar mail preview system for GNOME would therefore result in people being > able to see new messages without constantly switching between applications > and also enable them to determine if a message was particularly important. *NOD* There needs to be a better new mail notification mechanism than the current BEEP or run-custom-program. This is already in the task list for the Evolution 2.8 release. (http://www.go-evolution.org/Mailer-2.8) Allowing the user to open/delete new mails without coming to the Evolution window. In the meanwhile you can try http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/garnome/geektoys/mail-notification/files/?only_with_tag=gnome-2-14 Your distro might ship with a new mail notification program already. You can ask for more details in your distro's forum. Sankar From mpt@myrealbox.com Sat Jun 24 03:22:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1243B0223 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29957-04 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leucothea.redline.site5.com (leucothea.redline.site5.com [216.118.97.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276F93B0360 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 203-173-178-53.bliink.ihug.co.nz ([203.173.178.53] helo=[10.1.1.5]) by leucothea.redline.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fu2T6-0006IN-Og; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Message-Id: <5f4833cdbee1bce1686a79531ed478a0@myrealbox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) From: Matthew Paul Thomas Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:22:21 +1200 To: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV. X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - leucothea.redline.site5.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - myrealbox.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.412 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.412 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:22:23 -0000 Hi Danni On Jun 20, 2006, at 12:57 PM, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > ... > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more=20 > logical for deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and=20= > go to system trash rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make=20= > system trash a universal repository for deleted data. That would be nifty, but the mail-specific Trash would still be useful=20= as a way of viewing only the deleted items that were e-mail messages. > ... > 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the=20= > user is entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only=20 > browser I know of with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has=20= > it.) > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images,=20= > the user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user=20= > wants to download multiple images from a page, without saving the=20 > whole thing. IT also seems, from the usability studies I have read=20 > online that new and inexperienced users have a reticence towards=20 > right-clicking. The various usability studies I have read by Sun and=20= > Novell seem to indicate that people often do not think to right-click=20= > to configure the clock or activate applets. Therefore, functions that=20= > are present in right-click menus only, such as that to save images in=20= > the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an entry to "Save=20= > All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. Or you could drag the image from the Web page onto your desktop or into=20= a folder, which works right now. (Granted, it doesn't work for images=20 that are inside links. But there are less obtrusive ways saving could=20 be provided for those too -- for example, the "Save As=85" button in the=20= Media tab of Firefox's Page Info window.) > 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I=20 > know that it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) =20 > because I can run it successfully under kppp. However, attempting to=20= > configure it under GNOME results in failure as it cannot be detected. =20= > This is annoying as, for one reason, it limits me from using a=20 > GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. kppp is a more than adequate=20= > workaround but it would be great for GNOME to also support these. I=20= > realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to broadband but in my=20 > (first-world) country there are still many home users with dial-up=20 > only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. Agreed -- the lack of easy-to-use dialup configuration makes Gnome much=20= less interesting for 22% of people online in the USA, 46% in China, 69%=20= in Australia, 70% in New Zealand, about 70% in India, and so on. > ... > 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the=20 > spatial mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the=20 > need for a file MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming,=20= > printing lists of directory structures and so on. > ... I can't think of any reason for these features not to be in Nautilus.=20 (You can already rename single items, just not in the way Windows and=20 Mac OS let you do it.) > ... > 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like=20= > the concept of circular menus mentioned here: > > http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html > ... =46rom what I've seen, circular menus don't scale to more than about 12=20= items, especially if they contain text. Cheers --=20 Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/= From gnome-desktop-devel-list@m.gmane.org Sat Jun 24 10:52:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C43C3B07F1 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20276-09 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355323B0402 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fu9Uv-0005Qs-Pm for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 Received: from sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.223.202]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 Received: from sdl.web by sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org From: Leon Subject: install applet server file without root Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:52:26 +0100 Lines: 14 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAEAAAAASCAMAAADc8SgQAAAAwFBMVEUCBQEJDAgTFRIaHBof IB4jJCIrLCotLywyNDE3OTY8Pjs/QD5FRkRJS0hRU1BWV1VbXVpiZGFnaWZrbWptb2xvcW52eHV5 enh+gH2Bg4CHiYaLjYqNj4yRk5CXmZaanJmdn5ygop+mqKWqrKmsrqutr6yxs7CztbK4ure7vbq/ wb7DxcLHycbJy8jNz8vQ0s/T1dLW2NXc3tvf4d7h5ODl5+Po6ufr7enu8O3x8/Dz9fL1+PT4+vf6 /Pn7/fr+//wGuxWtAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAALEwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH1gIaAyMw1+FInQAAAXxJ REFUOMulk+tygjAQhalFWodYvIwyiNUKA95QVLwQhLPv/1ZNAKWX8Yd6ZsLAZvdL9iQo9KSUx0v3 0wV/BjDSzZY6exxw0BJgrqaPApBtQeDK6eEdAGJ4DQhAZjFmWVZf798LmTUi6QGgmQCysHtfeWa1 OXITj8pMYrh9Vz03vmQbEuArMeETSZBPpIdKvMg9B2faL2NKgl3R/zZIuFZnjDW5bKGnrVfmROLk 5LhWqVmEbEcfu8u3+XD14YrvjeEsWRrlyj3QDN/To6u96VVJmkdO40AJAVU4ZQqfInWDhcpRSABi ZQ4MQYusPJ9KRSDhtgEclROBjQhGK8+hfMgdeMICSpGaRf6iU8kuiUzwnXdQ/BJleJ38/pnQ0yUJ g8JDbOxKbnlgtZDQ7Ql/GGzUxZnR7ngBxEHdCMP1rKOD/rVQhlY18aL5BMuczmncTmJnkF4AO9/3 PN9z3e3tW3uciodzFm58LcUCwWgS4drC39Vu3XsqbMu7/Zn8DYna+irHnqnQAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.0 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+0hFUCRQH6hd8ZYC5JEjXZlI6H8= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.593 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.593 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:52:39 -0000 Dear all, I am learning programming applets for gnome but it seems it requires root privilege to install and test applets. Seanni[1] has met the same issue but seems no one can answer. My question is how can a user (no root) install a .server file. Thank you all. Footnotes: [1] http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10650 -- Leon From reinouts@gnome.org Sat Jun 24 18:37:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E423B0094; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05211-10; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psmtp02.wxs.nl (psmtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.247.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57AC3B00DB; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from reinout.rotterdam-cs.com (ip5656924e.speed.planet.nl [86.86.146.78]) by psmtp02.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.02 (built Oct 21 2004)) with SMTP id <0J1D00E2UYSL68@psmtp02.wxs.nl>; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:36:28 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:39:02 +0200 From: Reinout van Schouwen Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, epiphany-list@gnome.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2 (This is not a psychotic episode. It's a cleansing moment of clarity.) References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> <20060622140525.GA1605@uwsworld.xs4all.nl> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:37:26 -0000 cc: epiphany-list On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200, Wouter Bolsterlee wrote: >> 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, >> the user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user > > I think not many people will use this feature. Therefore it's unlikely > that it will be implemented. To the contrary: someone has made a preliminary implementation of an Image Toolbar extension that shows a Save button when mousing over any image. However it was quite buggy and unfinished, so it now lingers somewhere in bugzilla... regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 00:09:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A193B02E4 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15859-06 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.207]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E163B0091 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so1472997nzh for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.47.19 with SMTP id u19mr4006827qbu; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:08:17 +0100 From: Who To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Nautilus Sidebar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.554 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.554 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 04:09:10 -0000 Hello List, A quick introduction before my main email: I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list about 5 months now... So, take my suggestions in the light of that description. Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is relevant to what the user is doing. See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in Nautilus that can display results from different engines. Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have any intentions to integrate into Nautilus I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related to this. Thanks in advance Who From http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2002-April/msg00226.html > Proposed Changes to [aptly renamed] "Start Here": > > 6 Folders (listed alphabetically) ... > Startup > The end of the session manager! Well, not really. Any thing the user > places here (preferably as links and .desktop files) would opened > (or run) when the user logs in. This requires the most new work > of these folders as it involves the session manager. It might > be implemented by passing the --sm-disable argument to programs > run from it and placing in the default gnome-session something to > open the things in the startup folder. ... Cheers, Greg Merchan From iaingnome@gmail.com Fri Jun 2 19:59:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869683B047B for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32453-07 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.171]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C303B0B7F for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so671871uge for ; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=H1Ne4pKCRfVg5XCcNJOijkcp7kgP1jOGUnyBKNo10St1vW+TR/MaRL7mfp1YpYzR1ww/NPnbYtsozd5iHD4rZARvJpfeKJTDMoj1OiZ82HIA7f1V2ALUOqt8hjbt5qmawaaJxKaaz7JPIkDezWuiAq/zP6/mFLIkg2if+G0X7z0= Received: by 10.67.89.6 with SMTP id r6mr1253688ugl; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.245.8 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 00:59:23 +0100 From: "Iain *" To: "Desktop Development List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.888 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077, TW_RG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -0.888 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 23:59:26 -0000 ------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hi Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a maintainer these days? First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use this new system The patch is here: http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch and is also attached. lots of love iain ------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name=gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_enz77jd7 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch" SW5kZXg6IENoYW5nZUxvZwo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09ClJDUyBmaWxlOiAvY3ZzL2dub21lL2dub21lLXRl cm1pbmFsL0NoYW5nZUxvZyx2CnJldHJpZXZpbmcgcmV2aXNpb24gMS41NTUKZGlmZiAtVTIgLXIx LjU1NSBDaGFuZ2VMb2cKLS0tIENoYW5nZUxvZwkxNyBNYXkgMjAwNiAyMjoxMDowNCAtMDAwMAkx LjU1NQorKysgQ2hhbmdlTG9nCTIgSnVuIDIwMDYgMjM6MTk6MjIgLTAwMDAKQEAgLTEsMiArMSwx MiBAQAorMjAwNi0wNi0wMiAgSWFpbiBIb2xtZXMgIDxpYWluQGdub21lLm9yZz4KKworCSogc3Jj 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------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065-- From lucasr.at.mundo@gmail.com Sat Jun 3 06:15:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D02B3B04F5 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28056-04 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 326E13B0622 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so758994uge for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=be0ykkhnR+WInlr9zJKJ3Eg2z7QkHBPz/mS2UJdtwVZO5Za3jb8unUjjkVfETZAFRWc39WiZRaWUuPoblhjjhvWzgk517bpMwWIUwugErS7qPPHUitDvugxhhvQjbrj0ByMDtIeDvOj5b4ClEA+rvsnZIwwpbWAJiAWEZKN3rJk= Received: by 10.67.97.7 with SMTP id z7mr1557650ugl; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.32.17 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31a62e6f0606030315i5794061fx3afda4bd5a1d3599@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 07:15:02 -0300 From: "Lucas Rocha" To: "Desktop Development List" In-Reply-To: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.254 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.346, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.254 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 10:15:10 -0000 Hi Iain, AFAIK (and acoording to the MAINTAINERS file), gnome-terminal is maintained by Guilherme Pastore (aka fatalerror). I suggest you to file a bug and try to meet him on IRC. Behdad has been doing some stuff on this module too. p eace --lucasr 2006/6/2, Iain * : > hi > > Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a > maintainer these days? > > First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked > fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that > stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. > > Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program > instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus > pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use > this new system > > The patch is here: > http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch > and is also attached. > > lots of love > iain > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > > > From kalle.vahlman@gmail.com Sat Jun 3 11:21:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042763B067E for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11829-06 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210563B06CA for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so807287uge for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RsVv8gkP8m9sF8YRGPObFNgPMrFZhMxg2dj1ZuUMrD/5o3bHyLSTTVDdZvcK3l+E2oHXnO9ff2Wi4ktD4/8E4YcMxVkQUaO61hgwEWINDBbCHofhSfsE8DhkXjEtpiaL2S8cJXm+bDOAm+8d2uauZESHawvURG0Ft0YGVX8pnT8= Received: by 10.67.103.7 with SMTP id f7mr1758517ugm; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.16.10 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <177e83dd0606030821n5c774ad3p127dd3a6675e82e1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 18:21:27 +0300 From: "Kalle Vahlman" To: "Iain *" In-Reply-To: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.49 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.448, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.49 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Desktop Development List Subject: Re: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: zuh@iki.fi List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:21:32 -0000 2006/6/3, Iain * : > hi > > Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a > maintainer these days? > > First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked > fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that > stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. > > Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program > instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus > pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use > this new system Very cool. Seems to launch way faster than bonobo version too after a quick test :) (though that might be 2.14.1 vs CVS too I guess) > The patch is here: > http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch > and is also attached. > > lots of love to > iain ;) -- Kalle Vahlman, zuh@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Sun Jun 4 15:26:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4B93B016C for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06133-05 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.192.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 002C43B02A5 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060604192622m1200nk46be>; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:26:23 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Gnome Desktop Development List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:26:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.641 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.332, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.641 X-Spam-Level: Subject: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 19:26:25 -0000 A common [fatal] error reported by a number of applications in the 2.15.x branch is: Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to open file '': No such file or directory GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed aborting... Questions: * Is there a simple work around? It is difficult to test 2.15.x with this error in place. * Any chance that this problem will be resolved any time soon? I have seen this problem in 2.15.0, 2.15.1, and 2.15.2. -Joseph -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From bjourne@gmail.com Sun Jun 4 16:21:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F543B01AC for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08773-06 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDA63B0101 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1042692wxd for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Hb49BjoqweARg0w5t1fwubOAcbRHt6rtJiiTAWtgSnZ3+F4OH33pOXhARWn3vwVWy6kqDi2iOKnFZPw2JKR3C8qvwy+eTYvI1Bzb+s1h+rA2KDJCI0VUUB+mCT9l7yayiKg8drLRqVlj8TiHujImfISlEdqio6Ue36336uFqRuQ= Received: by 10.70.49.6 with SMTP id w6mr5252855wxw; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.10 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 22:21:29 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.421 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_MV=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.421 X-Spam-Level: Subject: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 20:21:31 -0000 Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very much prefer svn instead of cvs. --=20 mvh Bj=F6rn Lindqvist From as583@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sun Jun 4 16:27:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99653B01AC for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09042-03 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.139]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5B63B016C for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from as583.emma.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.248.113]:34970) by ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.159]:587) with esmtpsa (PLAIN:as583) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1FmzBj-0002Xc-UQ (Exim 4.54) (return-path ); Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:27:07 +0100 Message-ID: <448341FB.80605@gnome.org> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:26:35 +0100 From: Andrew Sobala User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?= References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Andrew Sobala X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.509 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.064, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.509 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 20:27:14 -0000 BJörn Lindqvist wrote: > Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to > Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have > been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the > switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very > much prefer svn instead of cvs. Discussion happened on gnome-hackers; new date is 14th July. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2006-June -- Andrew From newren@gmail.com Sun Jun 4 19:03:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66DAD3B00D0 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17079-09 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058B23B0288 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1057642wxd for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=R7GruRgIZLPAkXceJSqXQP+VWzvqThkkwX1ScM7kmw6txaFHhFEDUh6fp+rn3fJbD3OMAOnM6VZg2F7S8zQoQhquZshi9t9n9+jYYDE3fF3bF4nmR8wXjRXQh2RN4yh37VhpDUzhpTZA3m8q5l8sf+E21p5FuEDO6fPqMOCRAvc= Received: by 10.70.117.16 with SMTP id p16mr5361597wxc; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.7 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 17:03:50 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" In-Reply-To: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 23:03:53 -0000 On 6/4/06, BJ=F6rn Lindqvist wrote: > Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to > Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have > been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the > switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very > much prefer svn instead of cvs. Looks like we failed somewhere to get the word out about devel-announce-list widely enough. It's a very low volume list meant for important announcements. Granted, as aes mentioned, the general discussion happened on gnome-hackers but for those who'd prefer to just get the big announcements, the postponement[1] and new date[2] of the SVN migration were both announced to devel-announce-list. [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-March/msg00003.= html [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-May/msg00004.ht= ml From bjourne@gmail.com Mon Jun 5 05:52:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1BB3B00CE for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20033-02 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C378C3B031D for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1128508wxd for ; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=VMrV0zJYnZc0fD1VxiFU6iO0HMwOvUJii7CeNIne4sN/1ca5a5eoNh7bFx9Z9ad8xJbjVO+NDr5x2X/KgqpPy2/+pgcWkzKWJESg+2cqYe7VN2Po3B9AQ2FjyxKxudGZSGX3JmBq/AYm2grwUUdOPY1cV9xw77N9zClfsOn0AR4= Received: by 10.70.49.6 with SMTP id w6mr5849501wxw; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.10 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 02:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <740c3aec0606050252h780f6f63nb417e174eab1882f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:52:42 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 09:52:47 -0000 > Looks like we failed somewhere to get the word out about > devel-announce-list widely enough. It's a very low volume list meant > for important announcements. Granted, as aes mentioned, the general > discussion happened on gnome-hackers but for those who'd prefer to > just get the big announcements, the postponement[1] and new date[2] of > the SVN migration were both announced to devel-announce-list. > > [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-March/msg0000= 3.html > [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-May/msg00004.= html Then I'm very sorry to have been bothering the wrong list unnecessary. /me goes and subscribes to yet another mailing list The new Subversion migration date is fantastic news though. --=20 mvh Bj=F6rn From William.Walker@Sun.COM Tue Jun 6 10:21:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A26B3B0182 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28117-01 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C373B0A96 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k56ELg6m000827 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0F00501ZP9UE00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.11] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0F002B2ZW4FRQ0@mail-amer.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:21:38 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-id: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.586 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.586 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:21:48 -0000 Hi All: We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would like to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal to include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the missing features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also done a fair amount of stability and testing work. We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of Gnopernicus: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to address the issues that arise. Thanks! Will (Orca project lead) From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 6 21:02:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198963B02E8 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01166-08 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.206]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD9E3B0119 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so95533wxd for ; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=uMjiD2UneBstxGvHvDUjCg20B/AKOA7TrAPOlIojwLeWRAYoc8aPUZKa86K9RbBmkohVgwdRxv0WpgmxKGK/wNrfrNiB5s59ipLN64fkMZtn1R93/tdqgaWAKEH0mEqq5FOAXfvdnCNTH04zG4woQnpwJUJEFV6sGQHcZuJp1GI= Received: by 10.70.33.8 with SMTP id g8mr307306wxg; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.7 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606061802o2e6a876br82818f1864d6f50c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:02:22 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Willie Walker" In-Reply-To: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.572 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.572 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:02:26 -0000 On 6/6/06, Willie Walker wrote: > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > Gnopernicus: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html That email pretty much looks like the clincher to me; it looks to me like it resolves the only big issue I remember anyone bringing up. > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > address the issues that arise. Thanks for your awesome work. We've kind of sucked at getting the proposed modules all listed. Could you go to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Desktop and add orca (and, if you have time, the other proposed modules)? We should start getting those into the modulesets going out with releases and doing a better job of verifying the build and so forth (though I'm betting GARNOME is ahead in the game and has them included, which would be cool). As per the schedule at http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen, the "Module inclusion discussion heats up" on the week of July 12th. I can't imagine why orca wouldn't make it at this point, as it looks like you've already addressed any potential issues that could come up. But if you want to be on the safe side, just watch your d-d-l email that week and if any additional issues about orca are brought up you can address them. Hope that helps, Elijah From fcrozat@mandriva.com Wed Jun 7 11:02:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0503B0272 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22929-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office.mandriva.com (ezoffice.mandriva.com [84.14.106.134]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D433C3B0127 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trinidad.mandrakesoft.com (trinidad.mandrakesoft.com [192.168.100.216]) by office.mandriva.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4FA531 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:02:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Frederic Crozat To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Mandriva Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:02:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3-10mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:02:44 -0000 Le dimanche 04 juin 2006 à 15:26 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. a écrit : > A common [fatal] error reported by a number of applications in the > 2.15.x branch is: > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > open file '': No such file or directory > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > (object)' failed > aborting... > > Questions: > > * Is there a simple work around? > It is difficult to test 2.15.x with this error in place. > > * Any chance that this problem will be resolved any time soon? > I have seen this problem in 2.15.0, 2.15.1, and 2.15.2. You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 -- Frederic Crozat Mandriva From federico@ximian.com Wed Jun 7 12:58:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348273B0461 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31312-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B5A3B04FC for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17019 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2006 16:58:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO 164-99-120-35.boston.ximian.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2006 16:58:49 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: Frederic Crozat In-Reply-To: <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 11:54:38 -0500 Message-Id: <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:58:53 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > (object)' failed > > aborting... > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when builddir == srcdir. Federico From fcrozat@mandriva.com Wed Jun 7 13:03:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857CE3B0502 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31466-08 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office.mandriva.com (ezoffice.mandriva.com [84.14.106.134]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039683B02D9 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trinidad.mandrakesoft.com (trinidad.mandrakesoft.com [192.168.100.216]) by office.mandriva.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCABD531 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 19:03:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Frederic Crozat To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Mandriva Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:03:31 +0200 Message-Id: <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3-10mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.57 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:03:35 -0000 Le mercredi 07 juin 2006 à 11:54 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero a écrit : > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > > (object)' failed > > > aborting... > > > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 > > It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when > builddir == srcdir. Easy workaround : rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h and rebuild : tarball was shipped with an incomplete gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h file. -- Frederic Crozat Mandriva From Matt.Keenan@Sun.COM Wed Jun 7 13:26:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FB33B047D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00550-01 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F703B006D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k57HQTEv011828 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:26:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J0I00H0130ZXK@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Matt.Keenan@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:26:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.150.120.79] (vpn-129-150-120-79.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.120.79]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0J0I00AG1344JB@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:26:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:26:27 +0100 From: Matt Keenan To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-id: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060119) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:26:32 -0000 Hi, What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME community ? Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is this something that people see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better solution ? As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the moment we really would like to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the preferred format is a necessity. Cheers Matt From ross@burtonini.com Wed Jun 7 13:43:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690793B045D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01751-03 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B766B3B02BA for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from burtonini.com (althur.gotadsl.co.uk [84.12.135.175]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B06EA33500E; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:37:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (ident=unknown) by burtonini.com with esmtp (masqmail 0.2.21) id 1Fo1yK-86I-00; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:37:36 +0100 From: Ross Burton To: Matt Keenan In-Reply-To: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> References: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d" Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:37:35 +0100 Message-Id: <1149701855.8920.49.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:43:03 -0000 --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 19:26 +0100, Matt Keenan wrote: > Hi, >=20 > What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME communit= y ? >=20 > Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is=20 > this something that people > see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better=20 > solution ? >=20 > As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the=20 > moment we really would like > to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the=20 > preferred format is a > necessity. I'd say that Docbook would make a good master source, as the user guide is also written in docbook. Ross --=20 Ross Burton mail: ross@burtonini.com jabber: ross@burtonini.com www: http://www.burtonini.com./ PGP Fingerprint: 1A21 F5B0 D8D0 CFE3 81D4 E25A 2D09 E447 D0B4 33DF --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBEhw7fLQnkR9C0M98RAlH3AJ9SQGc/4xzkv/EMKc5nfQ4m9N0eawCgxL6G y/1LhGBSG7RTJhB6hFhSdBQ= =tJHS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d-- From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Wed Jun 7 14:05:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F2D3B0DCF for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03337-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B5743B0E23 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060607180513m1200pab1je>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:05:13 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:05:12 -0400 Message-Id: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.645 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.336, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.645 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:05:22 -0000 I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h * build * install The bad news is I still see the error. -Joseph =========================================================================== On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 19:03 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > Le mercredi 07 juin 2006 à 11:54 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero a écrit : > > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > > > (object)' failed > > > > aborting... > > > > > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > > > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 > > > > It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when > > builddir == srcdir. > > Easy workaround : rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h and rebuild : tarball was > shipped with an incomplete gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h file. > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From federico@ximian.com Wed Jun 7 14:42:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CB43B069F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05780-02 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178E63B0DB6 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17247 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2006 18:42:01 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO 164-99-120-35.boston.ximian.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2006 18:42:01 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:37:51 -0500 Message-Id: <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.536 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_XV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.536 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:42:04 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: > > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > * build > * install > > The bad news is I still see the error. You may need to 1. tar xvf gtk.tar.gz 2. configure; make 3. rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h 4. make 5. make install I.e. let it build, then remove the header file, then build again. Federico From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Wed Jun 7 14:47:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8E73B0E0B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06186-03 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (unknown [216.148.227.155]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4878F3B0E45 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20060607184711m15001vu4je>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:47:12 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Federico Mena Quintero In-Reply-To: <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:47:10 -0400 Message-Id: <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.608 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.376, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, TW_XV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -0.608 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:47:14 -0000 I have a sense of humor. I will give that a try. For what it's worth... Fedora/rawhide [PPC: updated daily] does not have this problem. I have expended a number of cycles examining their src RPMs, looking for the magic patch that has not yet made it upstream. Didn't find a thing. -Joseph ================================================================== On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 13:37 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: > > > > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > > * build > > * install > > > > The bad news is I still see the error. > > You may need to > > 1. tar xvf gtk.tar.gz > 2. configure; make > 3. rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > 4. make > 5. make install > > I.e. let it build, then remove the header file, then build again. > > Federico > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From j@bitron.ch Wed Jun 7 14:51:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F443B069F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06395-02 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpanel02.rubas.net (cpanel02.rubas.net [62.216.182.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9B63B050C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 80-219-211-5.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.219.211.5] helo=[192.168.1.33]) by cpanel02.rubas.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fo37q-0007ap-TH; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:51:31 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrg?= Billeter To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:52:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel02.rubas.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - bitron.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.524 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.524 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:51:48 -0000 On Mit, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: >=20 > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > * build > * install >=20 > The bad news is I still see the error.=20 Should be fixed in CVS http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/Makefile.am?r1=3D1.309&r2=3D1.310 The patch applies to Makefile.in in the 2.9.2 tarball, too. J=C3=BCrg From matthias.clasen@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 16:30:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E6A3B00C7 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12519-04 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.204]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320F03B015D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 8so229327nzo for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:30:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=LYjL12EdChuw+lZQqGKA1cluImN0sNHjc01h7M8DGB+xDSg+wAumrDC8qg7n22LA/lC/uigEi4+t5IqDUuFSmksedxwnbaDjdRgoGguMEAsbS5PB9A6xS/kmGa5JyyVHxmWZXO5FxfTVWGLv4KceoGK0Z1/cNSLdk/Ro9eJn08U= Received: by 10.37.2.14 with SMTP id e14mr1202727nzi; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.14 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:23:57 -0400 From: "Matthias Clasen" To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.508 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.092, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.508 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Federico Mena Quintero , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:30:17 -0000 On 6/7/06, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I have a sense of humor. I will give that a try. > > For what it's worth... Fedora/rawhide [PPC: updated daily] does not have > this problem. I have expended a number of cycles examining their src > RPMs, looking for the magic patch that has not yet made it upstream. > Didn't find a thing. > I didn't fix it in 2.9.2-3, I worked around it by dumping in a correct gtkbuiltincache.h after unpacking the tarball (look for SOURCE2) Matthias From matthias.clasen@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 17:43:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF013B062C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17008-09 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820093B0CA4 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so306896nzo for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=d+WFIAUU5OYshLt/IV/hRwTCOUzbrliGiCWI9t7E5m8mUfO5PB8UcfRVB6ZzKpXTvLIWf1aPeQ2SRftAAEeAodIgYJj6gy3hqZrARMmMa4m9m/dEEg0HMuHwnt1d4ue6VI+jhy4eMqhjRBqUklfQl2VSUy8zwfpgpm7JME0IY+o= Received: by 10.36.121.19 with SMTP id t19mr1310096nzc; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.14 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:07 -0400 From: "Matthias Clasen" To: "Matt Keenan" In-Reply-To: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.47 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.47 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 21:43:11 -0000 On 6/7/06, Matt Keenan wrote: > Hi, > > What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME community ? > > Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is > this something that people > see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better > solution ? > > As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the > moment we really would like > to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the > preferred format is a > necessity. > The few man pages that are shipped with the glib and gtk api docs are in docbook now, which has the advantage that we can easily include them in the api docs, too. Matthias From federico@ximian.com Thu Jun 8 21:30:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACED93B04DB for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18212-01 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043353B0E3D for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19069 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2006 01:30:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?164.99.120.169?) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Jun 2006 01:30:03 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrg?= Billeter In-Reply-To: <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 20:25:50 -0500 Message-Id: <1149816350.30645.108.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 01:30:09 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 20:52 +0200, Jürg Billeter wrote: > Should be fixed in CVS > > http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/Makefile.am?r1=1.309&r2=1.310 Excellent catch, like swatting flies with a whip. Thanks for the fix :) Federico From frandavid100@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 09:51:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61263B0423 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18107-06 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214C53B0229 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so301601uge for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=MDFIZQJpAQibpDfJtY5XAuqiQNe2+Fhc5gvr2qEhTEJuP+sClW+mqb7679oTHoDc00/RZxajkdJTWDwv8wW6EiY+Yjzlcq+PjsOsXMSMxaclaW/V9ZnuTDcAG7wX6lKocTAaZhXBLV0E6kkOOnsnBnKcG3rgLWAm8SY1pGymIgQ= Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id u9mr530800ugg; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.103? ( [84.123.96.251]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id q40sm998482ugc.2006.06.07.06.51.49; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:49 -0700 (PDT) From: David Prieto To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:47 +0200 Message-Id: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 06:37:00 -0400 Subject: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:51:54 -0000 Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it goes: First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run these programs together. As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, internet, epiphany. It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea (middle-click), epiphany. What do you think about it? Here's the original post: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/48788 From johan@svedberg.com Fri Jun 9 06:54:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC263B0121 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16742-01 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.acc.umu.se (mail.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.156]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9A33B0004 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF6652 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from suiko.acc.umu.se (suiko.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.162]) by mail.acc.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C3327 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: by suiko.acc.umu.se (Postfix, from userid 24225) id A174C803; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 From: Johan Svedberg To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at acc.umu.se X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:54:38 -0000 * Jun 09 12:37 David Prieto : > Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it > goes: > > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my > e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run > these programs together. > > As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, > internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, > internet, epiphany. > > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? You could ofcourse create desktop shortcuts or panel launchers for the applications you use most frequently. But I like the idea, another alternative might be to add a "Run application" in the right-click menu. -- Johan Svedberg, johan@svedberg.com, http://johan.svedberg.com/ From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Fri Jun 9 06:54:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05FBD3B1041 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16715-02 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B24F3B0121 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-05.sun.com (d1-emea-05.sun.com [192.18.2.115] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k59Asee9009449 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:54:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-05.sun.com by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0L00K019O99Q00@d1-emea-05.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from dhcp-226-200.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.226.200]) by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0L00J4MAB3EQ10@d1-emea-05.sun.com>; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:35 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: David Prieto Message-id: <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Organization: Sun Microsystems Ireland Ltd. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.583 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.583 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:54:46 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51 +0200, David Prieto wrote: > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse button, as not everyone has one. In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are always run when you log in? Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From jan@jgc.homeip.net Fri Jun 9 07:52:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94903B1073 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20462-09 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.fastline.no (mx2.fastline.no [82.134.2.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698923B01A7 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) X-SMTP-Auth: no Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.fastline.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1B6A00041F for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx2.fastline.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx2.fastline.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 10287-01-2 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xciton-pc2 (a80-126-167-165.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.126.167.165]) by mx2.fastline.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0ECBA000409 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Jan de Groot To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:52:29 +0200 Message-Id: <1149853949.4427.0.camel@xciton-pc2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.3.2 (20050629) (Debian) at mx2.fastline.no X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.578 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.578 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:52:28 -0000 On Fri, 2006-06-09 at 12:54 +0200, Johan Svedberg wrote: > You could ofcourse create desktop shortcuts or panel launchers for the > applications you use most frequently. But I like the idea, another > alternative might be to add a "Run application" in the right-click > menu. That, together with the middle click, just like the "open link in new tab" feature in most browsers. From ktirf@users.sf.net Fri Jun 9 09:30:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1DD63B031E for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27240-08 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from delta.deserv.net (delta.deserv.net [83.102.151.66]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A0293B0003 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.119.253.205] (helo=[10.232.104.122]) by delta.deserv.net with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Foh4a-0003JR-0k for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:30:48 +0400 Message-ID: <448977EC.3040905@users.sf.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:30:20 +0400 From: Alexey Rusakov User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-Id: ktirf@nale.ru X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.503 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.503 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:30:30 -0000 Calum Benson wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51 +0200, David Prieto wrote: > > >> It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch >> the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click >> applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea >> (middle-click), epiphany. >> >> What do you think about it? >> > > I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you > shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse > button, as not everyone has one. > What about Ctrl-LeftClick and Ctrl-Enter as alternatives? Anyway, ... > In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit > better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding > three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all > three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are > always run when you log in? > ... this is a good question :) -- Alexey "Ktirf" Rusakov From xavier.bestel@free.fr Fri Jun 9 11:52:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BFFF3B024A for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03877-05 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp13.wanadoo.fr (smtp13.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E543B026D for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from awak.dyndns.org (AGrenoble-152-1-21-70.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr [82.122.20.70]) by mwinf1304.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1F9B6700008B for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:52:32 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060609155232129.1F9B6700008B@mwinf1304.orange.fr Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=capoeira ident=stunnel4) by awak.dyndns.org with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1FojIE-0000uL-00; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:53:02 +0200 From: Xavier Bestel To: David Prieto In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:52:28 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.283 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.283 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 15:52:35 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51, David Prieto wrote: [...] > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your multiselections. Not that I advise using several mouse buttons at once. Xav From mpt@myrealbox.com Fri Jun 9 13:28:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1EA3B0268 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09915-07 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leucothea.redline.site5.com (leucothea.redline.site5.com [216.118.97.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827E73B011B for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ool-44c0bc13.dyn.optonline.net ([68.192.188.19] helo=[192.168.0.5]) by leucothea.redline.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fokm3-000296-RA; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:27:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <2873c7c3e7a66e8562d38938161412e1@myrealbox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Matthew Paul Thomas Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:26:46 -0400 To: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV. X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - leucothea.redline.site5.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - myrealbox.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:28:03 -0000 On Jun 7, 2006, at 9:51 AM, David Prieto wrote: > ... > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read > my e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually > run these programs together. You can set these programs to run automatically when you log in, using the "Startup Programs" tab of the "Sessions" preferences. (This could be much more obvious than it is, for example by giving the control panel a name better than "Sessions".) You can also add the programs to the panel at the top/bottom of the screen by clicking on an empty part of it (if there is one) with the right mouse button (if you have one) and choosing "Add to Panel...". (Again, this could be much more obvious than it is. For example, it should show up when you search the help for "how can I start programs quickly".) -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ From frandavid100@gmail.com Fri Jun 9 15:04:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74B83B00E9 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14795-04 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF323B009F for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so598739nfe for ; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=TDtsoF1S0IXExUOckOSPJ6L4SnxSBbw786CXC1ndr+VxKZgYeje5qx7P11UN3LkGDhYHCfV80q30mhUWDoV3egDP2esip+uQBLnrkcBHjtfwFaTgR/FrNj292b5eejPlWanVL+zj76zZQv61da7Nof8Kkt3xt0+Bxr8klD22wWQ= Received: by 10.48.238.9 with SMTP id l9mr2640423nfh; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.103? ( [84.123.96.251]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id l21sm1702180nfc.2006.06.09.12.04.43; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: David Prieto To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 21:03:36 +0200 Message-Id: <1149879816.5224.2.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 19:04:47 -0000 I'm sorry, I replied to Calum instead of sending my mail to the list: _____________________________________________________________________ > I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you > shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse > button, as not everyone has one. Well, in Nautilus for example you can open a folder while closing its folder if you double-click on it with your middle button OR if you double-shift+left-click. Why not do the same here? Users without a middle button could just use shift+left-click as a replacement. > In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit > better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding > three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all > three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are > always run when you log in? Well, those are quite subjective reasons but I don't like launchers on the panel, aesthetically. Besides, I use only one panel and space is scarce on it. Creating a launcher for all three programs would not be very useful since I could want to launch just two of them (epi could be already open), or I could want to launch amule too. It's just not flexible. About setting them to launch when logging in, I already said it in my first message: I could just be somewhere else and yet be logged in, maybe because amule is running. Then I could get to the computer and want to read the forums, get my mails... you get the point. I know my reasons could be minor for some, but well, they're good for me. From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Sun Jun 11 05:05:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580113B00DC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30987-09 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DC093B0092 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.11] helo=salmon.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 11 Jun 2006 10:03:54 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:03:53 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: David Prieto In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.592 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.592 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:05:07 -0000 On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, David Prieto wrote: > Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:47 +0200 > From: David Prieto > To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Subject: opening a program with the middle button > > Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it > goes: > > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my > e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run > these programs together. > > As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, > internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, > internet, epiphany. > > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? Mozilla allows you to bookmark groups and open several pages at once. Perhaps we need a way to create a launcher which launches more than one program? (I guess you could do that using a script.) Alternatively you could either set those programs to automatically start every session, or more easily save your session on logout so it comes back up the same when you login. I've done similar things this way in the past. -- Alan H. From sri@aracnet.com Sun Jun 11 11:44:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251F43B0125 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16813-02 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B6B3B008B for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-21-239-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.239.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5BFgSHT018681; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:42:29 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Willie Walker In-Reply-To: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:41:41 -0700 Message-Id: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.339 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.049, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.339 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sri@aracnet.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:44:49 -0000 So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? sri [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it seems kind of early to me. On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:21 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > Hi All: > > We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would like > to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal to > include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the missing > features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also done a > fair amount of stability and testing work. > > We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on > orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html > > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > Gnopernicus: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html > > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > address the issues that arise. > > Thanks! > > Will > (Orca project lead) > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Sri Ramkrishna From sri@aracnet.com Sun Jun 11 11:49:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001E13B00E0 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16636-10 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ruby.spiritone.com (ruby.spiritone.com [216.99.193.130]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759C03B0084 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-21-239-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.239.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by ruby.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5BFlwTA018262; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:47:59 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:47:11 -0700 Message-Id: <1150040831.16558.6.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.407 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.116, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.407 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sri@aracnet.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:49:30 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 10:03 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > > What do you think about it? > > Mozilla allows you to bookmark groups and open several pages at once. > Perhaps we need a way to create a launcher which launches more than one > program? (I guess you could do that using a script.) Anything that would require programming would not be very user friendly. I wonder if something like "launcher group" or something where you can create a launcher that runs many programs in sequence with the option of having each application start depending on whether the last application actually ran. The value is still somewhat questionable in creating such a thing. I'm not sure if many people would use such a thing. Sometimes I wish we could add such features via plugin for some enterprising 3rd party to write. sri -- Sri Ramkrishna From shaunm@gnome.org Sun Jun 11 14:15:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA23D3B01A2 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27106-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.wolfram.com (webmail.wolfram.com [140.177.205.37]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F493B0195 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from recto.housenet.network (DHCP-74-136-213-67.insightbb.com [74.136.213.67] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by webmail.wolfram.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5BIDn5t008851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:13:50 -0500 From: Shaun McCance To: sri@aracnet.com In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:13:42 -0500 Message-Id: <1150049622.16073.14.camel@recto.housenet.network> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.106, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 18:15:20 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 08:41 -0700, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > sri > > > [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it > seems kind of early to me. The mail from Thomas Friehoff at Baum[1] is pretty much a clincher. If the Gnopernicus team is behind Orca, and favors Orca being Gnopernicus's successor, then it really isn't a question of "if", only "when". What we need to think about now is the migration path for our users. Many users have vested time and resources into making Gnopernicus work for them, so unless we can have a completely seamless forced transation (a difficult thing to do), we are going to see users using Gnopernicus for some time. So we do need to consider how we're going to accomodate those users as we shift stuff over to Orca. This means thinking about our accessibility control panels, how we present our accessibility tools to the users, and how we're documenting our accessibility stack. Perhaps an IRC meeting could be set up among the Orca developers, the Gnopernicus developers, and a couple of user interface and documentation people. Hash out a plan, report it back to the community, and make it happen. I'm excited. Are you excited? I'm excited. Let's make good things happen. -- Shaun [1] This one: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:21 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > > Hi All: > > > > We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would > like > > to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal > to > > include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the > missing > > features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also > done a > > fair amount of stability and testing work. > > > > We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on > > orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html > > > > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > > Gnopernicus: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > > > as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html > > > > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to > the > > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is > still a > > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to > adoption > > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > > address the issues that arise. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Will > > (Orca project lead) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > desktop-devel-list mailing list > > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > -- > Sri Ramkrishna > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From danilo@gnome.org Sun Jun 11 15:27:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 323E13B01BF for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30006-01 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from avet.kvota.net (unknown [147.91.15.40]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A100D3B00F7 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by avet.kvota.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 882887C2A4; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:06:24 +0200 (CEST) To: sri@aracnet.com References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> From: danilo@gnome.org (=?utf-8?q?Danilo_=C5=A0egan?=) Mail-Followup-To: sri@aracnet.com, Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:06:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> (Sri Ramkrishna's message of "Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:41:41 -0700") Message-ID: <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:27:37 -0000 Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. Who are we to argue them? ;) Cheers, Danilo From newren@gmail.com Sun Jun 11 19:06:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC5C3B0253 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07553-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.195]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B4103B01CC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so906381wxd for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=fiCZ1GWCGSwxPYc+Wf7HtEdlTKk8eW/Ob7qlq52akIeZ/Ni6ap/5Ds64jor+Jdc7/Jl8P7zXudzyaVaCjbTRTEk2s1QnbwKDPSsO0Zk+94ETijxhEa2rverDJCpnloHBkRMhENFP5zm6Cb/PAiy+//TcZTXdMVuHzvte1bmEf/g= Received: by 10.70.62.1 with SMTP id k1mr5817701wxa; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.89.16 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 17:05:43 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: sri@aracnet.com In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.465 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_JH=0.077, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.465 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:06:46 -0000 On 6/11/06, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? I did respond[2] but I think your email points out some potential confusion in the community worth addressing. > [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it > seems kind of early to me. Actually, (application) module proposal time has come and passed. We're now in the extended module evaluation period. In past releases, the proposal deadline and module freeze were so close together that we weren't ever even close to actually meeting the module freeze deadline. The decision would always come like a month afterwards when we were deep into freezes. So, we changed things this time around[3]. As per the release schedule[4], new application modules needed to have been proposed by April 24th; we have a longer module evaluation period, module discussion will heat up on July 10th to discuss any lingering issues, the release team meets the following week with the community input, and module choice is frozen July 24th. I believe all the modules that have been proposed have been added to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Desktop and http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Bindings. If anyone spots a missing module, please add it. Also, it'd be great if everyone could build and test the proposed modules[5]. Thanks, Elijah [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-June/msg00009.html [3] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-April/msg00000.html [4] http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen [5] Along those lines, I updated the meta-gnome-proposed module in jhbuild just this last week to assist with that. However, it's missing gtk-sharp and tomboy, which should probably be fixed somehow. It's similar to the missing gtk2-perl and gtk-java issue, which I also don't know quite how to solve. I'm pretty sure there's a bug I filed somewhere with some advice from James that I said I'd follow up on but which I never got around to. From murrayc@murrayc.com Mon Jun 12 02:39:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC333B015B for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22320-05 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com (webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com [66.33.201.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA1A3B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.murrayc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5C02C21B; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 194.138.18.132 (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user murrayc@murrayc.com) by webmail.murrayc.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:38:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> In-Reply-To: <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:38:41 +0200 (CEST) From: "Murray Cumming" To: sri@aracnet.com, "Willie Walker" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.52 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.52 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 06:39:40 -0000 > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of confusion. Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? > Who are we to argue them? ;) Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 05:43:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE3203B00A6 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28785-07 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FCE13B00E6 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5C9hNTO024786 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 03:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J0Q00F01QZPDT@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:43:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-176.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.176]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J0Q002ILR0ARL@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:43:22 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:44:30 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, gnome-18n-list@gnome.org Message-id: <1150105469.7019.1.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: ATK and AT-SPI branched for gnome-2-14 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:43:59 -0000 Hi: ATK and AT-SPI have branched for gnome-2.14. New stuff is on HEAD, stable development should use the 2-14 branch. I haven't made a new release since the branch yet, perhaps today (AT-SPI HEAD depends, for the moment, on ATK HEAD). regards Bill From sbrabec@suse.cz Mon Jun 12 05:51:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944163B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28662-09 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.suse.cz (styx.suse.cz [82.119.242.94]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9660E3B000D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hammer.suse.cz (hammer.suse.cz [10.20.1.86]) by mail.suse.cz (SUSE CR ESMTP Mailer) with ESMTP id 3AD7062805F; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Stanislav Brabec To: Xavier Bestel In-Reply-To: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: SuSE CR, s. r. o. Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:06 +0200 Message-Id: <1150105806.13727.15.camel@hammer.suse.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:51:09 -0000 Xavier Bestel wrote: > Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: > right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the > right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your multiselections. > > Not that I advise using several mouse buttons at once. It was a nice feature allowing to do more actions in the menu during one rolling down. And a nice Amiga Multiselect utility also enabled multiple selections outside menu, in file lists, file managers etc. without using of Shift button: - Place mouse pointer over the first item you want to select - Press left button - Keep the left button pressed and press right button - Release left button, keeping right button pressed - Use left button clicking to add toggle items selection, keeping right button pressed - Release right button Both these features I often miss in GTK+. -- Best Regards / S pozdravem, Stanislav Brabec software developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SuSE CR, s. r. o. e-mail: sbrabec@suse.cz Drahobejlova 27 tel: +420 296 542 382 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 296 542 374 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 10:42:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D43A3B009D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06770-05 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0743B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-09.sun.com ([192.18.2.119]) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CDrF4H002463 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-09.sun.com by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00L012HDZ700@d1-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([129.150.117.3]) by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R0014U2KQRX50@d1-emea-09.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:10 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Xavier Bestel Message-id: <681C6D4D-8762-49C9-9187-3DCBF1B04022@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.582 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.016, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.582 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:42:37 -0000 On 9 Jun 2006, at 16:52, Xavier Bestel wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51, David Prieto wrote: > [...] >> It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch >> the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click >> applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea >> (middle-click), epiphany. > > Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: > right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the > right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your > multiselections. Yep, that was handy alright... in fact you can do that in GTK menus too, but only if you use the keyboard: Space will check the focused checkbox/radiobutton menu item and keep the menu open; Enter will check it and close the menu. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From jdub@waugh.id.au Mon Jun 12 14:13:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A90F3B0386 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23613-04 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710B83B07BD for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net [150.101.121.112]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C552C3C432 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:03 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3C4D940DB; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:00 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:00 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060612180600.GA22122@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-23-686 i686 Reply-By: Fri Jun 16 04:05:44 EST 2006 X-Uptime: 04:05:44 up 11 days, 3:57, 7 users, load average: 0.37, 0.18, 0.11 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:13:45 -0000 > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. See the background on a11y list. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Compassionate Conservative: I don't know what that is, sounds like a Volvo with a gun rack." - Robin Williams From DonScorgie@Blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jun 12 14:15:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843013B00FD for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23885-01 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D4D3B0738 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.143] (helo=anti-virus02-10) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Fpqro-0008HB-Vo for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:10:25 +0100 Received: from [82.41.205.39] (helo=[192.168.1.1]) by asmtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1Fpqrl-00080P-6Q for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:10:21 +0100 From: Don Scorgie To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:11:05 +0100 Message-Id: <1150135865.11844.7.camel@Madaline> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.517 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.517 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:15:33 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: > > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? The gnopernicus maintainers commented on the ocra list (linked to in this thread somewhere): http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Don > > > Who are we to argue them? ;) > > > Murray Cumming > murrayc@murrayc.com > www.murrayc.com > www.openismus.com > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From newren@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 15:08:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50EF53B0345 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26293-10 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B048A3B0343 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1028979wxd for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=TgVzJyw224nRJqXUuu+ThZrYi2XXmnlbm/MRSEN8qb2JI2E2qmGazGo/Wt994nfgnZRbDS6Lz76e+I4uqmsAya1REm1V9JJUjL1aj+jeskwwsoYUJvLb83onPB5WO5DLLgjqPXvsZ1w7ERN/+Cb5Id03ai+G3rD7i55tA+0ETcM= Received: by 10.70.14.5 with SMTP id 5mr3881692wxn; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.89.16 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606121207vad8be21t6b0782b3159c835b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:07:33 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Murray Cumming" In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:08:32 -0000 On 6/12/06, Murray Cumming wrote: > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html (Which Will linked to in this post: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-June/msg00008.html) From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 15:27:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 662903B00E5 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27322-03 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B2CA3B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-06.sun.com ([192.18.39.116]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CIohjx021697 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-06.sun.com by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00101FW17D00@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.26.228] by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R00CEDGCI6530@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:42 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: Murray Cumming Message-id: <448DB782.2070303@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:27:15 -0000 Hi Murray , >>> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we >>> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? >>> >> It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, >> especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. >> > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? > Please see this message from Thomas Friehoff, the VP of Engineering at BAUM, maintainers of Gnopernicus: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. From shaunm@gnome.org Mon Jun 12 16:04:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8775F3B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28570-06 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wolfram.com (mailhub.wolfram.com [140.177.10.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E573B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shaunmlx.wri.wolfram.com (shaunmlx.wri.wolfram.com [140.177.4.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by wolfram.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CK3UoC010479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:03:31 -0500 From: Shaun McCance To: Murray Cumming In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:03:30 -0500 Message-Id: <1150142610.22619.0.camel@shaunmlx> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:04:30 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: > > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? Right here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html -- Shaun From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 18:42:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909A03B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01759-06 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710533B00A5 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-05.sun.com (d1-emea-05.sun.com [192.18.2.115] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CMe23L023927 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-05.sun.com by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00H01LMM9J00@d1-emea-05.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([194.125.72.67]) by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R00DP3QYQQZ60@d1-emea-05.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:02 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:39:58 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Murray Cumming Message-id: <6516EFE3-F4F7-49C8-B0D9-B73C8C4E2DC7@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.56 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.56 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:42:34 -0000 On 12 Jun 2006, at 07:38, Murray Cumming wrote: > >> Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: >> >>> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). >>> Are we >>> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? >> >> It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, >> especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. Shaun posted the evidence earlier in the thread :) http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From gnome@nextreality.net Mon Jun 12 23:35:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088263B0009; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08673-05; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E478D3B0010; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 5FE5E35904; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:34:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id C501C35901; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 21:34:30 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: release-team@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list , GNOME Documentation , gnome-i18n@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500001, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_LR=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: bug buddy branched X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:35:51 -0000 Bug buddy has been branched. gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From andrew@operationaldynamics.com Tue Jun 13 01:51:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151553B0150 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12131-02 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay02.pair.com (relay02.pair.com [209.68.5.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B40DB3B0120 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13902 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2006 05:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO procyon) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 13 Jun 2006 05:43:56 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 150.101.122.233 From: Andrew Cowie To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Operational Dynamics Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:59:18 +1000 Message-Id: <1150174758.5806.4.camel@procyon.operationaldynamics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.144, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_BG=0.077, TW_GT=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: Subject: What up, java bindings? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:51:33 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 17:05 -0600, in a thread originally about "Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16", Elijah Newren wrote: > [5] Along those lines, ... > It's similar to the missing gtk2-perl and gtk-java issue, which I also > don't know quite how to solve. Oh? What's up? More to the point, what do you need us to do? Not that we have large team, but I'll do my best. ++ As an OT aside: our libraries are called glib-java, cairo-java, libgtk-java, libgnome-java, libglade-java, and libgconf-java being our release set at the moment, with libvte-java, and libeds-java joining this cycle. They're all on ftp.gnome.org. Quite the grab bag, with most following the libBLAH-java pattern, which was I believe at the request of the GNOME release team of the day when they multiplexed the previously straight forward "java-gtk" and "java-gnome" into the above mess. Before my time. A number have people have pointed out that naming like glade-java, along the lines of what the Mono boys and girls used (glade-sharp) would be nice. I agree, but at this point, given that the distros all adjusted their packages about 18 months ago when java-gnome shattered into its constituent pieces, that changing the naming pattern would be a large and painful change without that much benefit. [Not that I needed the scars to reinforce the obvious, but I was doing the Gentoo ebuilds then and it was quite a pain to shuffle and create that many new packages. I am quite conscious of the cost of change especially when it comes to package naming, etc. Given the enormous hassle it is to prepare up 6 headed for 8+ libraries every time we cut a java-gnome release, I'm not in a rush to add to my problems.] So, libBLAH-java it is... unless, as a part of a GNOME wide cleanup, we adopt a common naming scheme for bindings packages. If that's the case, then I'm sure the powers that be can align the stars to get package names changed in every distro simultaneously. Yup. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Technology strategy, managing change, establishing procedures, and executing successful upgrades to mission critical business infrastructure. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ Sydney New York Toronto London From danilo@gnome.org Tue Jun 13 05:17:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58993B008F for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17857-05 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from supa.sekjur.com (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7FE3B000A for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D81421F205; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown by localhost (amavisd-new, unix socket) id client-EFXCVfB9; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.121] (dhcp-87-116-155-154.marshall-bg.customer.sbb.co.yu [87.116.155.154]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2CAD21F1F3; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Danilo Segan To: Murray Cumming In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sekjur.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:17:28 -0000 У пон, 12. 06 2006. у 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming пише: > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. As pointed to in original e-mail: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html "We support the Orca team's proposal to make Orca the default screen reader / magnifier on the GNOME desktop in GNOME 2.16 - and for Orca to be the spiritual and logical successor to Gnopernicus." Perhaps I am trusting e-mail exchange too much? (Though, I don't think I am ;) > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? No, I didn't mean it like that. Though, if they didn't actually send the above message (we all know how easy it is to forge e-mail headers), they'd have certainly replied so far. Cheers, Danilo From William.Walker@Sun.COM Tue Jun 13 11:55:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468343B000C; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28918-08; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E903B00D9; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-02.sun.com ([192.18.108.176]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5DFsBuL025314; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0T00J012NLRP00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM); Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0T009D82UA4MV4@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:54:09 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Danilo Segan Message-id: <1150214050.5017.16.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: Cc: sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Murray Cumming Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:55:14 -0000 > No, I didn't mean it like that. Though, if they didn't actually send > the above message (we all know how easy it is to forge e-mail headers), > they'd have certainly replied so far. I can assure you that the message is indeed for real as we've had telephone conversations with Thomas and the Gnopernicus team regarding this transition. In addition, if it were fake, I can assure you that I would also let you know. Thanks! Will From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Tue Jun 13 16:27:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6215E3B03D8 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05552-08 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E17C3B03F0 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-06.sun.com ([192.18.108.180]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5DKQxAT005525 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0T00501EYOJY00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0T009Q0FGXLT93@mail-amer.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: GNOME Desktop Message-id: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.703 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.639] X-Spam-Score: -1.703 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 20:27:55 -0000 As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video plugins are currently in beta-test. http://shop.fluendo.com/ While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed to a per-use license). They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the desktop market. In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that represents such a small percentage of desktop users. Is this worth exploring? Brian From rbultje@ronald.bitfreak.net Wed Jun 14 15:47:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DF33B0112 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10759-04 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (unknown [24.29.109.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D623B01B6 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (cpe-66-65-0-167.nyc.res.rr.com [66.65.0.167]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5EJjjTm009201; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: "Ronald S. Bultje" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:43:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 (2.2.3-4.fc4) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:47:12 -0000 On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). [..] > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald From sri@aracnet.com Thu Jun 15 00:34:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CCB3B00CA for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11360-03 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [216.99.193.114]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC40D3B00B7 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [127.0.0.1]) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5F4XmTw009989; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:48 -0700 Received: (from sri@localhost) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k5F4XkZ5009987; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: "Ronald S. Bultje" Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 04:34:09 -0000 On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could license it. I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have probably heard it before. :-) sri From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Thu Jun 15 17:16:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995B83B00D0 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00998-06 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF1E3B006C for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5FLFCvC005262 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0X004016M4PP00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0X00AK171AVSV0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-reply-to: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: Sriram Ramkrishna Message-id: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.521 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.521 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:16:15 -0000 >>> Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a >>> license with the GNOME community >> >> Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Is there a more appropriate forum for discussing a topic like this? Apologies if my previous email was inappropriate. I certainly do not want to encourage the GNOME community to violate any important ideals. Obviously one ideal that it wouldn't violate is giving our end-users the best desktop experience possible. It seems a bit hard to really do this without finding and supporting creative ways to allow popular desktop IP to integrate with the desktop. But "allowing" IP to integrate doesn't mean that the GNOME community needs to support it financially, obviously. I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. I just wanted to mention the idea and see if there might be interest. From the responses, it seems like there isn't much. But that is fine since end users can go to the Fluendo store to purchase the plugins directly if they want them. > I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have > probably heard it before. :-) While I certainly understand it would be bad for the GNOME community to support non-free projects at the expense of free projects, I didn't think I was suggesting anything that would detract from free software. If enough users/companies are willing to pony up the money to pay for a license, then this isn't taking away from money earmarked for other free projects. In fact, the Foundation could reasonably insist that some extra money to fund free projects would be required for them to consider supporting a non-free project. Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely make free software more popular rather than less. Since the license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't work well. The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate with the desktop. Fluendo is already doing this, so to a degree the need is being met. Really the opportunity to work more closely together only makes it more affordable for everyone. Brian From thomas@apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 07:29:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFD53B0007 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27074-01 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.es6.egwn.net (server02.es6.egwn.net [195.10.6.12]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731023B000B for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net (server07.fr4.egwn.net [62.39.85.77]) by mx1.es6.egwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9EF4F82E3; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 5261F83C17; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server07.fr4.egwn.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16333-39; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thread.fluendo.lan (core.fluendo.com [195.10.6.237]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 46C3683C14; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thomas.fluendo.lan (thomas.fluendo.lan [192.168.1.10]) by thread.fluendo.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A96BFE8F; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:10 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Thomas Vander Stichele To: Sriram Ramkrishna In-Reply-To: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:08 +0200 Message-Id: <1150457348.23862.202.camel@otto.amantes> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: By amavis at egwn.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.683 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_SBL=3.16] X-Spam-Score: 0.683 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:29:46 -0000 Hi, > On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > > to a per-use license). > > [..] > > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > > license with the GNOME community > > > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Where is the start of this thread ? Nobody I've asked seems to have anything before Ronald's mail. Thomas From thomas@apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 10:31:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32B83B0076 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31386-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.es6.egwn.net (server02.es6.egwn.net [195.10.6.12]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163283B0011 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net (server07.fr4.egwn.net [62.39.85.77]) by mx1.es6.egwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E544F8353; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id AED6483C18; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server07.fr4.egwn.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18233-24; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thread.fluendo.lan (core.fluendo.com [195.10.6.237]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 9CCCD83C14; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thomas.fluendo.lan (thomas.fluendo.lan [192.168.1.10]) by thread.fluendo.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20788FE8F; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Thomas Vander Stichele To: "Ronald S. Bultje" In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:54 +0200 Message-Id: <1150468254.23862.219.camel@otto.amantes> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: By amavis at egwn.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.683 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_SBL=3.16] X-Spam-Score: 0.683 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:31:37 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 15:43 -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. I agree with Ronald (though violate is overstating it :)) that this should not be done by the GNOME foundation as such. It would make sense for a group of distributions to team up in some form to do this - but the GNOME Foundation should be about Free Software. (For those of you like me that didn't get Brian's original mail - he was asking what people think about the possibility of some distributors giving money to the GNOME foundation so that the GNOME foundation could pay the license fees for proprietary codecs) Thomas From jdub@waugh.id.au Fri Jun 16 13:08:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A48363B00E0 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07045-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8343B0131 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net [150.101.121.112]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2123C28B for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:13 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C1860200E6; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060616170703.GM17421@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Reply-By: Tue Jun 20 03:04:24 EST 2006 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-23-686 i686 X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Uptime: 03:04:24 up 15 days, 2:56, 9 users, load average: 0.13, 0.05, 0.02 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:08:00 -0000 > I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that > the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single > license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like > this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save > money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. It seems more appropriate that this be pursued by distributors and Fluendo themselves (distributing directly to end users) than GNOME. We don't control the integration or immediate end-user experience, so there's not a lot we can do that will directly impact users here - unless you can think of other opportunities. If you mean "us" to include all distributors as well, that is a different issue. :-) (btw, you wrote a very long mail for a few short points) - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "You can't just find cake. Cake isn't naturally occuring." - Penny Arcade From cjb@mrao.cam.ac.uk Fri Jun 16 15:50:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7F03B00DC for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18185-06 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk (mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk [131.111.48.8]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8473B0074 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skye.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.48.158] ident=mail) by mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FrKJZ-0001YY-20; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:09 +0100 Received: from islay.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.48.119]) by skye.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1FrKJY-0004jt-00; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 To: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> From: Chris Ball Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> (Brian Cameron's message of "Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Social Property, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , Sriram Ramkrishna , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:50:09 -0000 >> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Brian Cameron said: > Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely > make free software more popular rather than less. Since the > license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be > terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't > work well. "Those who would give up freedom to purchase a little temporary popularity deserve neither." I think that Sriram's right about talking to the distributions. You'll find that most (Fedora, etc) have already committed to not ship patent-encumbered codecs regardless of whether a license is available, though. See, for example, the lack of success ESR had with suggesting that Fedora license an MP3 decoder: http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2006-March/msg01286.html - Chris. -- Chris Ball From murrayc@murrayc.com Fri Jun 16 17:51:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6923B0106 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22708-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarthymail-a5.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-176.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.176]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB5B3B01D2 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noname (p5497EE72.dip.t-dialin.net [84.151.238.114]) by swarthymail-a5.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B6E109EAC; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Murray Cumming To: Brian Cameron In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:50:21 +0200 Message-Id: <1150494621.5811.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.481 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.118, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.481 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , Sriram Ramkrishna , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:51:08 -0000 On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 16:15 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: [snip] > The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with > multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate > with the desktop. [snip] Ignoring the rest of this thread, the start of which hasn't reached my inbox yet... We are not against "Intellectual property", or copyright in general. This is the kind of phrasing I'd expect in a "Linux is for communists" article. We just like to license our copyrighted stuff in a particular way, and generally prefer software that does that too. So I think you really need to avoid this odd terminology, if it's not what you mean, or understand. Murray From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Fri Jun 16 18:13:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56933B04E4 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23880-02 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3029D3B05DF for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-03.sun.com ([192.18.108.177]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5GLTqdA022116 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0Z00F012706I00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0Z00JL52DRY1G0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:29:54 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-reply-to: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: thomas@apestaart.org Message-id: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.703 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.639] X-Spam-Score: -1.703 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:13:13 -0000 Thomas: I was going to point you towards the archives, but the GNOME archives seem all messed up - no emails before today. Here was my original email. It seems after the responses, that there is little interest in providing encumbered plugins on GNOME distros. While not exactly the answer I was hoping for, I appreciate people exploring the idea and explaining the state of affairs to me. Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. Brian Brian Cameron wrote: > > As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP > plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video > plugins are currently in beta-test. > > http://shop.fluendo.com/ > > While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs > (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that > the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows > IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if > users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). > > They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use > UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the > plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all > UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the > desktop market. > > In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization > like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could > be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian > Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible > if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked > out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME > distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich > experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in > donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? > > As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have > similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own > RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount > of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real > with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely > that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and > RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in > a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems > it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if > they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that > represents such a small percentage of desktop users. > > Is this worth exploring? > > Brian > From newren@gmail.com Fri Jun 16 19:33:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C7A43B06BB for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27362-02 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4A83B06CE for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so554080wxd for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.132.14 with SMTP id f14mr4808064wxd; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.102.9 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:26:36 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_TK=0.077, TW_YG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:33:40 -0000 Hi everyone, This is just a quick email to ask for help in improving the dogfoodability of our tarballs and CVS. See the lists below my verbose explanation if you want to jump to the details. :) Currently, buildability from either tarballs or CVS is pretty poor; I wouldn't consider either in a dogfoodable state. Most of it is just small things that are easily fixed, but it really adds up. We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we just fix the modules??"). There have also been multiple cases where we have had to revert modules to older versions. It's worth noting that not all is bad -- a quick search shows that there are over two dozen build bugs that have been fixed in the last week and that's only counting the ones that I filed. So people are definitely working hard on this. We'd just like to ask for some extra help where possible to clean up the remainder of the issues (in fact, a bunch of them already have patches...). Luis also wanted me to say: I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole release until they are all fixed. The email should stress that time-based releases only work if the code is dogfoodable all the time. I'd suggest requesting a volunteer to scream at d-d-l every time tinderbox breaks. IMHO, publicly shaming those who break the build is the only way you're going to achieve regular buildability- bugzilla is insufficient. Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gtkmm 344788 (and 344787) simple build warnings gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-vfs 344349 checks for selinux aren't robust gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x pygtk 344845 (probably fixed now by pygtk-2.15.2) deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) Problems in non-release-set modules: ----------------------------------- rhythmbox 343718 partially fixed, but fix has new problems rhythmbox 345036 last released tarball won't build under 2.15.x From rdepantalon@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 19:52:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDEE3B000C for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03892-01 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372463B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so2191648nzo for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=kSddZwdPfx/WyIQpZeK81Xawz3TozY9KqS04dlWboeOVpJ3aaRLpDx/0dYKz3/feqSN+r6rxBHrdlPTaPOIWO4MsPINgNKuMajC4hM/g6nVo62d/l708y/OXodJ0MXIk/YSGVlYs3vVaS56GB65uLTQU0IOaufzFWiJhplelOpo= Received: by 10.36.216.6 with SMTP id o6mr2797570nzg; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.15.72 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:52:01 +0200 From: "Rousseau de Pantalon" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.804 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_00_10=0.795, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.804 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:30:21 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:52:53 -0000 ------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Gnome Developers, I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version. End-users hate decisions. In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd. Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown. Step back. Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested. Step back. Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns. This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do. Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out. This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful. It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John ! Now for the good news: I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell. I like it very much. Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it. Kind regards, Rousseau de Pantalon. ------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Gnome Developers,

I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version.
End-users hate decisions.
In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd.

Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown.
Step back.
Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested.
Step back.

Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns.
This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do.

Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out.
This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful.
It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in
much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma.

I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John !

Now for the good news:
I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell.
I like it very much.

Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it.


Kind regards,
  Rousseau de Pantalon.


------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237-- From james.henstridge@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 05:39:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 294AE3B06EB for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16649-01 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27B33B06B7 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so605960wxd for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.30.12 with SMTP id d12mr5397726wxd; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 17:37:17 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Rousseau de Pantalon" Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 20cb2d36a3ec3620 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.585 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.585 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:39:03 -0000 On 13/06/06, Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. > It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of > devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in > much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. > > I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John > Ellis: Thanx John ! Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective with hotplugable hardware, since you don't need to configure separate applets for each drive. Furthermore, the new applet works better with the rest of the desktop: 1. it can see all the drives that Nautilus can 2. it can unmount a volume even when a Nautilus window is open for the volume. If it is missing drives, that would mean that Nautilus can't see those drives in its "computer" view either. This would be a bug to fix in gnome-vfs (which would fix both the drive mounter and Nautilus). James. From decaycell@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 09:41:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5333B013A for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23044-07 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4693B00A6 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so1975371uge for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.9 with SMTP id c9mr23610ugj; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.0.0.7? ( [217.132.240.49]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id y7sm4378445ugc.2006.06.17.06.40.32; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A Framework for Desktop Syndication From: Yaron Tausky To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:07 +0300 Message-Id: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.042 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.042 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:41:23 -0000 Hi, I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps if you think this is all rubbish. :-) On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. -- Yaron Tausky From davyd@bridgewayconsulting.com.au Sat Jun 17 12:36:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D143B0165; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27617-08; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au [203.56.14.38]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164FF3B0083; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A7FE22E8004; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 (WST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 From: Davyd Madeley To: release-team@gnome.org Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.263 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-2.742, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=0.827, RCVD_IN_WHOIS_BOGONS=2.43, UNIQUE_WORDS=2.347] X-Spam-Score: 0.263 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:13 -0000 On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the new libxklavier). --d -- Davyd Madeley http://www.davyd.id.au/ 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Sat Jun 17 15:14:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B47B3B00FD; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04221-08; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F663B010F; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060617191412m1200a7tike>; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:14:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Davyd Madeley In-Reply-To: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:11 -0400 Message-Id: <1150571651.7998.6.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.654 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.345, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.654 X-Spam-Level: Cc: release-team@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:14:57 -0000 The only people who do do not make mistakes are dead. We do appreciate your contributions to open source. Onwards, -Joseph ============================================================================ On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 18:25 +0800, Davyd Madeley wrote: > On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > > > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x > > I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the > new libxklavier). > > --d > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From dodji.seketeli@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:10:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245C03B0178 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06436-02 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.193]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEBBB3B0207 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so598956wxd for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.32.20 with SMTP id f20mr5883880wxf; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.1 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:10:05 +0200 From: "dodji Seketeli" Sender: dodji.seketeli@gmail.com To: "Yaron Tausky" Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> X-Google-Sender-Auth: c517aee610ca8ae6 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.151, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:10:24 -0000 Hello, This sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe you should bring the developer of applications like liferea into the loop. There is certainly something to be shared with them. This kind of API could simplify the code base of apps like liferea and allow other applications to provide syndication to their users, at a very low development cost. Dodji. On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: > Hi, > I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the > use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified > intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's > database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is > for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can > think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. > I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think > there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps > if you think this is all rubbish. :-) > > On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this > seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to > do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not > integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. > > -- > Yaron Tausky > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From nudrema@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:33:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6F53B0337 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07353-02 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp40.mobistarmail.be (smtp40.mobistarmail.be [193.252.23.61]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFED3B0061 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (unknown [212.224.135.202]) by mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A9A00700008B; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060617203111694.A9A00700008B@mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be Message-ID: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:08 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060612) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rousseau de Pantalon Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.971 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.441, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.069] X-Spam-Score: -1.971 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:33:01 -0000 Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. Well, it actually is, especially when you don't show volume icons on your desktop (it's more convenient than showing the "network" place to unmount the volume) This reminds me of two issues : the impossibility to show *only* the volume icons (and not the remote location ones, see bug #159245), and the missing context menu of the places menu (yeah, context menu of menu sounds weird, but it would be great to be able to unmount a volume by right-clicking on its entry in the places menu...) From gnome@nextreality.net Sat Jun 17 18:35:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD3C3B0485; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13210-09; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A40DF3B0321; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 361E035904; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:34:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C8335901; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:34:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44948375.80400@nextreality.net> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:34:29 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: release-team@gnome.org Subject: Re: bug buddy branched References: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> In-Reply-To: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_LR=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-i18n@gnome.org, GNOME Documentation , desktop-devel-list X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:35:21 -0000 This never made it to my mailbox, so I am resending. Brent Smith wrote: > Bug buddy has been branched. > > gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release > HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development > will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From jdub@waugh.id.au Sun Jun 18 06:13:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29A53B0776 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17209-03 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 406B33B015A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (unknown [81.80.162.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5E23D85D for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:11:51 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8D347410D; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:11:48 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:11:48 +0200 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet Message-ID: <20060618101148.GB19478@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 i686 Reply-By: Wed Jun 21 12:09:21 CEST 2006 X-Uptime: 12:09:21 up 53 min, 5 users, load average: 0.11, 0.17, 0.24 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.543 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.543 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:13:17 -0000 > Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to > the radio-buttuns. I was pushing for a solution that sits somewhere in the middle of those points for Ubuntu, but for various reasons the single dialogue approach was taken. Separate dialogues for 'turn off' and 'log out' make sense, but making them very distinct (as with the Ubuntu or better, Windows XP) dialogues would be a great incremental improvement to what we already have in 2.14. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ Perl: Making thick Windows admins redundant since 1987. From jdub@waugh.id.au Sun Jun 18 06:42:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72523B0AF0 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19039-06 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96AB3B09F2 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (unknown [81.80.162.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EEC83D862; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:14:05 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 09DF2410D; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:14:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:14:03 +0200 From: Jeff Waugh To: Elijah Newren Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: Elijah Newren , Gnome Desktop Development List References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 i686 Reply-By: Wed Jun 21 12:12:38 CEST 2006 X-Uptime: 12:12:38 up 56 min, 5 users, load average: 0.14, 0.15, 0.21 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:42:49 -0000 > We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with > each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we > just fix the modules??"). ... 8< ... > Luis also wanted me to say: > I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to > release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole > release until they are all fixed. Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release management process, cf. signature. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak From lists@edmack.com Sun Jun 18 07:29:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBE73B0321 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20926-05 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vega.idns2.com (vega.idns2.com [85.92.70.238]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DD63B02EF for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [83.245.47.174] (helo=[10.0.0.10]) by vega.idns2.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FrrTK-0004l5-4d; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:26 +0100 Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication From: Ed Mack To: Yaron Tausky In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:12 +0100 Message-Id: <1150614792.8849.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - vega.idns2.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - edmack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:15 -0000 > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified Perhaps you should look into getting the D-BUS interface standardised through Free-Desktop so that applications can rely on it outside of Gnome. Ed Mack From 5madfarmers@gmail.com Fri Jun 16 18:41:21 2006 Return-Path: <5madfarmers@gmail.com> X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82673B0382 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24905-05 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8303B022B for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c39so718501pyd for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.37.18 with SMTP id p18mr5094493pyj; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.28.4 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:35:01 -0500 From: "5 Mad Farmers" <5madfarmers@gmail.com> To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Need an icon and stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:55:10 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:41:21 -0000 First, sorry for the noise but I figure this is the correct list. I'm about 1/3 done with a program that is GPL and intended for Gnome users. "DVD Juicer" not that I'm a name mimic or anything. The program is just a simple C wrapper (gtk of course) around extract/transcode type tools and the program itself isn't linked to any questionably licensed libraries - it calls external programs. It aims for simplicity and the hope is the people that use it won't have to understand frame rates, codecs, yada yada yada. The program picks the main track (all can be selected) and the user just hits "record" and that's that. In any event I'm not very artistically gifted and am looking for somebody to develop an icon for it. I pretty much know what I'm after but don't have graphic skills. After that I guess I'm wondering about hosting issues. Assuming that I get it banged into useable state, at that point I'd be kind of wanting a mailing list and perhaps someplace to host a tarball, bugzilla too I guess. I'm not subscribed but lurk the list so if you're interested in the icon thing I'd appreciate an email. If somebody can point me to the details for web hosting issues I'd appreciate that too. Thanks for your time. ---- I didn't spend money on the optional funny tag line. Jeff Waugh used to have very funny ones so just paste one of his here. From fherrera@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 10:56:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CD83B0100 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31366-04 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D27AE3B0089 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2212674uge for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.9 with SMTP id c9mr919239ugj; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.13 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:48:42 +0300 From: "Fernando Herrera" Sender: fherrera@gmail.com To: "GNOME Desktop Hackers" Subject: Crash reports from GNOME bindings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3fe5fbd740cb679d X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.391 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.133, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.391 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 14:56:25 -0000 Hello, current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and Gtk# applications, so here is the question: Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for GNOME 2.16 release? Salu2. From luis.villa@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 11:37:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86C33B0CBB for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00472-10 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.194]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C753B0C12 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so668272wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.116.8 with SMTP id o8mr7058887wxc; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.10.19 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2cb10c440606180829g5729c210p27134929060a7073@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:33 -0400 From: "Luis Villa" To: "Fernando Herrera" Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.558 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.558 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:37:36 -0000 Larry Ewing swore to me he'd do this for mono... Larry? :) By the way, let me suggest that this is really critical for binding-based apps to mature. GNOME without bug-buddy would still be very unstable. Bringing bug-buddy to the people developing with your bindings is a *huge* bonus for them, even if they don't know it :) Luis On 6/18/06, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From gjc@inescporto.pt Sun Jun 18 12:02:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2537E3B0CC3 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01599-07 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from animal.inescn.pt (correio.inescn.pt [194.117.24.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233553B0CC5 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/7) with ESMTP id k5IG111T008021; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:01:01 +0100 (WEST) Received: from pong.inescporto.pt (pong.inescn.pt [194.117.26.74]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/5) with ESMTP id k5IG0rMG007976; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:00:54 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pong.inescporto.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AAE5119288; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:57:41 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings From: Gustavo Carneiro To: Fernando Herrera In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INESC Porto Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:00:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at inescporto.pt X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.389 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.389 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:02:01 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-18 at 17:48 +0300, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). Thanks and regards. > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From nudrema@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 15:25:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264F73B0115 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08453-02 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp40.mobistarmail.be (smtp40.mobistarmail.be [193.252.23.61]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5052F3B008F for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (unknown [212.224.135.11]) by mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D887F7000088; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:52 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060618192452886.D887F7000088@mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be Message-ID: <4495A882.2080608@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:50 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060612) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rousseau de Pantalon Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet References: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.973 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.443, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.069] X-Spam-Score: -1.973 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:25:59 -0000 Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > 1. > The fact that it can see all drives Nautilus can see *is* the problem. > (My harddrives and their partitions are *not* hot-pluggable -- are your's ?) > If I want to see *all* my partitions, mounted or not, I'll open the > Computer Icon. > An applet such as this should at least filter out harddisk-partitions > and only show removable (usb) devices. > Better yet, have a customizable filter on volume-label / id / > device-name or so. In fact, it looks like a bug in your side. Here I only have an icon for my floppy disk (which can't be mounted automatically) and my CD or USB drive when I put them in... My permanent partitions (and I have several of those) don't show up. > 2. > The user cannot filter the devices / partitions shown. Does not matter since only the non-permanent ones should be shown. The icon appears when I plug my USB drive in, or when I put a CD in my CD drive, and then disappears after unmounting/ejecting it. > 3. > All Icons look alike. > It's just a replica of the Computer Icon. > One cannot assign icons to distinguish devices. Once again it looks like a bug. Here (Ubuntu Dapper, Gnome 2.14) I have a different icon for CD and for floppy. > ON THE RIGHT is a panel with the pre-2.10 applet representing my: > - floppy-drive > - pendrive #1 (floppy-disk-size -- bootable) > - the 64MB XD card in my printer > - my 256MB pendrive > - my other 256 MB pendrive > - my 750MB zipdisk > - my DVD-ROM player > - my DVD-writer > - my USB 5G mini-harddrive > - my MP3-player's internal 256MB memory > - my MP3-players 512MB SD extension BTW are you sure you don't have all those in your fstab and let hal/udev/whatever do its job ? It looks weird to me to have that many different usb drive placeholders... I guess not. The previous applets had that issue of not being friendly with this auto-configuration stuff: it wasn't possible to make one show up when you plug an USB drive. Actually, this works even if you've never used a USB key before. Looking at my fstab, I can see I have an entry for my CD-ROM drive, and for my IDE hard drives. That's all. Not even a line for my floppy, nor usb drives. > I propose the following: > - A filter in which the user can select the mountable devices to be > shown on the panel. > - The ability to attach a meaningful (custom) icon that represents the > device. > - Falling back to fstab if mounting/unmounting using udev/hotplug does > not do the trick. > - Make famd more aware of Nautilus created files/folders like > .Trash----- and thus not blocking unmounts. Maybe you should fill it as a bug in bugzilla if you think it's really useful to some people. -- Steve http://tw.apinc.org From benoit@placenet.org Sun Jun 18 16:21:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 381A33B000A; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09725-01; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ibook.free.fr (benoit.placenet.org [82.241.234.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81BA3B0071; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ibook.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B6458DF; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:52 +0200 (CEST) Subject: gnome-system-monitor has been branched From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Beno=EEt?= Dejean To: gnome-i18n@gnome.org, gnome-doc-list@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, release-team@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1" Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:51 +0200 Message-Id: <1150658211.603.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:21:23 -0000 --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The stable branch is gnome-2-14 and the development branch is HEAD. --=20 Beno=C3=AEt Dejean JID: TazForEver@jabber.org GNOME http://www.gnomefr.org/ LibGTop http://directory.fsf.org/libgtop.html --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Ceci est une partie de message =?ISO-8859-1?Q?num=E9riquement?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_sign=E9e?= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBElaajliyxJIUSPQoRAtcDAJ9JZw+cTZKTWNXZBBYFCtnpm/kJuQCeO14Y Kl72P/ZsSyMPW7l+8680xm8= =ubQu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1-- From fherrera@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 16:36:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CEBD3B00AF for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09616-05 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B8E3B000A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2273703uge for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id u9mr4817144ugg; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.13 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:35:18 +0300 From: "Fernando Herrera" Sender: fherrera@gmail.com To: "Gustavo Carneiro" Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 105387f1bb21b58d X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.51 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.090, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.51 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:36:18 -0000 On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed by bug-buddy after the bug report. I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. Salu2 From james.henstridge@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 22:13:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C8B3B02DE for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20489-08 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.205]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2019D3B0196 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so718551wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.15.4 with SMTP id 4mr1982726wxo; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:47:45 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Alan Horkan" , "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: b5f0f0028f3b89ab X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.589 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.589 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:13:50 -0000 On 19/06/06, Alan Horkan wrote: > > Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find > > to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective > > Dont know what the original commenter disliked about the applet but I > found it annoying that the icons are set to be generic looking drives > ("mystery meat") to start with, even though each button is assigned to > specific device type. Only when the drive is mounted change to look like > CD/USB/Floppy etc and that little bit of extra guesswork/memorisation is > something I could do without. That is something that might be worth fixing. The drive mount applet gets all the drive images from gnome-vfs (using gnome_vfs_drive_get_icon and gnome_vfs_volume_get_icon). If gnome-vfs is changed to provide better icons for unmounted drives/volumes, that will fix their display in the applet and Nautilus. James. From paolo.maggi@polito.it Mon Jun 19 03:28:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4733B0DB7; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30352-05; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from polito.it (anacreon.polito.it [130.192.3.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE963B0BA0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:21 -0400 (EDT) X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's FindAttachments (free) Received: from [82.105.171.149] (account d003505@polito.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by anacreon.polito.it (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPSA id 39168140; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:03 +0200 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Paolo Maggi To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.41 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.41 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:28:53 -0000 Hi, I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the languages name (the iso_639 module). I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? Ciao, Paolo From Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM Mon Jun 19 05:50:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D13CA3B0004; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02234-10; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EB03B008F; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-02.sun.com (d1-emea-02.sun.com [192.18.2.112] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5J9nVFW019335; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-02.sun.com by d1-emea-02.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1300C01PF1AF00@d1-emea-02.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.150.120.119] by d1-emea-02.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J13006BTPYFPW88@d1-emea-02.sun.com>; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:30 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:27 +0100 From: Darren Kenny Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-reply-to: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sender: Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM To: Paolo Maggi Message-id: <44967327.4060809@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060602) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:50:46 -0000 Has anyone looked into the use of Tim Fosters (yeah Glynn's brother) open language tools? https://open-language-tools.dev.java.net/ I know they are in Java, but this is the main point of what it addresses - the sharing of translations - while it doesn't have the "server" functionality, it does go some way to supporting the idea of sharing of translations. Darren. PS - I'm no expert in L10N or I18N, so please excuse my ignorance... Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? > > Ciao, > Paolo > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From james.henstridge@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 06:40:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC373B008F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04861-01 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8272D3B00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so171003wxd for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.130.3 with SMTP id c3mr8315800wxd; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:39:56 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Paolo Maggi" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8275e60f19f7fc95 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:40:48 -0000 On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't be presented as such to the user. James. From ArC@gulic.org Mon Jun 19 06:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7685C3B00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05102-08 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es [193.145.138.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D52433B008F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (Postfix, from userid 43062) id 57E74C00E0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:07 +0100 (WEST) Received: from savor.gulic.org (gulic.ulpgc.es [193.145.155.10]) by smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14619C00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:07 +0100 (WEST) Received: from socios.gulic.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by savor.gulic.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3048C415B for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 (WEST) Received: from phpmailer ([217.126.206.203]) by socios.gulic.org with HTTPS (PHPMailer); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org From: Alberto Carlos Ruiz Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication Message-ID: <3acf4f39f60be389c617b40fbe1978cb@socios.gulic.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.71] X-Mailer: FeLaMiMail version 0.9.5 Organization: gulic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-PostfixSecure-Antispam: valid X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.444, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:47:21 -0000 dodji Seketeli escribi=C3=B3:=20 Hi there I've been working around using feed syndication on the desktop, in fact = I've wrote a little app to syndicate art.gnome.org brand new atom format, to automatic install backgrounds from the site, Jilorio, (http://aruiz.synaptia.net/siliconisland/2006/05/jilorio_feed_fo.html) Gtk and metacity themes are also planned. While I was writting the app, I was wondering how could I centralize the feed agregation since I would use several feeds, and I've been thinking another uses of feeds around the desktop. So I think that a solution like this could rock to approach a "live desktop" which can change using the internet content. >Dodji. > >On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: >> Hi, >> I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the >> use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of = a >> daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified >> intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's >> database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is >> for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I = can >> think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. >> I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think >> there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps >> if you think this is all rubbish. :-) >> >> On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this >> seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to >> do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not >> integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. >> >> -- >> Yaron Tausky >> >> _______________________________________________ >> desktop-devel-list mailing list >> desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list >> >_______________________________________________ >desktop-devel-list mailing list >desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From isak.savo@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 08:36:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F2A3B0C86 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11267-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qb-out-0506.google.com (qb-out-0506.google.com [72.14.204.234]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2013B3B0D60 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id e11so84670qba for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.124.12 with SMTP id b12mr4271765qbn; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.181.6 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50b611120606190510hac0a14cvabbe1aa3b0de5193@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:10:26 +0200 From: "Isak Savo" To: "James Henstridge" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:36:29 -0000 2006/6/19, James Henstridge : > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. This is also what the FSF states on their license page[1]. That page also contains links to already translated versions of the three GNU licenses. They are unofficial though, in the sense that it is the English version that what counts in court. Isak [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#UnofficialTranslations From alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk Mon Jun 19 08:37:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A663B0C86; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11302-04; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (unknown [81.2.110.250]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E433B0C98; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5JCpUKM004774; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:30 +0100 Received: (from alan@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5JCpTFs004773; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: alan set sender to alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk using -f Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Alan Cox To: James Henstridge In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 Message-Id: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.59 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.59 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:37:01 -0000 Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a foreign language will not find much favour. The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less important property. The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. Translations really should include a translation of the license text where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that the American English version is the authorative document for legal purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and what rights you have given them. Alan From rosechr@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 12:32:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48553B01C6 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20459-06 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.174]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C7C3B0196 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2608745uge for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.16 with SMTP id 16mr2246685huw; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.12 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:31:50 +0200 From: "Christian Rose" Sender: rosechr@gmail.com To: "Paolo Maggi" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 276aabd410967e48 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.32 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.280, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.32 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:32:39 -0000 On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least for the short License declarations (like "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: 1) Most common widget and menu names are already defined (and translated) in GTK+. A "License" button would be the same thing. 2) If there was an "add a license dialog to my app" API for developers to use, it would make sense to allow a template for the short declarations of most common licenses to be used. If run in a non-English locale, also display a non-official translation if it exists. 3) External dependencies that help translation (like the iso_639 module) are very useful, but developers are often not aware of it, and for obvious reasons they try to avoid unnecessary dependencies, so in practice, few applications make use of them. > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? It is a real problem. I've lost track of how many times I have manually copied the unofficial Swedish translation of the "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..." "This app is GPL"-style declaration blurb into different applications. Even more exciting since different applications format the texts differently (with or without newlines and/or markup, different amount of spacing, etc) and give different addresses to the FSF (the FSF changed address at least once), so the number of variants in use is enormous... A "do it once, do it right" convenience API for developers to use for this would be a big plus, for both developers and translators. Christian From sri@aracnet.com Mon Jun 19 15:04:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 429B43B00DB for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27155-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [216.99.193.114]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F076F3B01DA for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [127.0.0.1]) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5JJ3HTw003291; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:17 -0700 Received: (from sri@localhost) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k5JJ3GPQ003289; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060619190316.GI7996@aracnet.com> References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.563 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.563 X-Spam-Level: Cc: thomas@apestaart.org, GNOME Desktop X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:04:41 -0000 On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 04:29:54PM -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" > attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to > purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather > than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially > if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I > don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made > yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make > a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. My advice to you is to sit with the other distributions and figure out how to do it from a "GNU/Linux platform" perspective. You can't be the only company who wants to have proprietary format work "out of the box" I don't know if there is a "distro summit" but that would be the first place I would hit to start pushing for this kind of thing. But doing it from the GNOME project perspective doesn't seem very likely. So it's exactly what you're planning to do now, but it would be the distributions not the GNOME project. True it complicates the task, but if distributors want to grow their share of the desktop market they'll probably want to opt into your idea. Besides, it's a great way to get some good press by leading. :-) sri From gnome@nextreality.net Mon Jun 19 22:12:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85613B036C for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17303-05 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1B93B00C4 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id B3CAB35904; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:11:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0F8F35901; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:11:39 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:11:48 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fernando Herrera Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.023, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gustavo Carneiro , GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:12:35 -0000 Fernando Herrera wrote: > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Any security implications there? -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From behdad.esfahbod@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 23:40:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57FC63B0E8D for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20798-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481263B0E65 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so1088126wra for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.112.1 with SMTP id k1mr6865222wrc; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.190.5? ( [72.136.156.47]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 64sm4643160wra.2006.06.19.20.39.51; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Behdad Esfahbod To: Christian Rose In-Reply-To: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:39:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1150774790.14758.3.camel@home> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 (2.6.1-1.fc5.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: Behdad Esfahbod X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:40:43 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 12:31 -0400, Christian Rose wrote: > On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least > for the short License declarations (like "This program is free > software; you can redistribute it and/or > modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: I replied to this thread, but seems like it didn't make it through the list. I've been working on exactly what you suggest in this bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336225 A couple of technical questions remain open, but you get the idea. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" From james.henstridge@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 03:07:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1303B0ECF for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31382-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hu-out-0102.google.com (hu-out-0102.google.com [72.14.214.195]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C833B0EFC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hu-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 24so655028hud for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.8.15 with SMTP id 15mr9925328wxh; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:58:48 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Alan Cox" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d5d09b8fe4015615 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.042 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.042 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:07:10 -0000 On 19/06/06, Alan Cox wrote: > Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > > be presented as such to the user. > > True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a > foreign language will not find much favour. > > The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the > code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less > important property. > > The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. > Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot > exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, > oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. > > Translations really should include a translation of the license text > where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that > the American English version is the authorative document for legal > purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. > > Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and > what rights you have given them. Those are good points, and it sounds like a good idea to show an unofficial translation along with the real license. But it needs to be clear that if the translation and the english text differ that the english text be considered authorative. This is particularly important if the translated text is displayed when the user asks the app what its license is. James. From paolo.maggi@polito.it Tue Jun 20 04:21:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA53E3B0306; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02498-06; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from polito.it (anacreon.polito.it [130.192.3.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F463B0008; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's FindAttachments (free) Received: from [82.105.171.149] (account d003505@polito.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by anacreon.polito.it (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPSA id 39199418; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:44 +0200 Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Paolo Maggi To: James Henstridge In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:40 +0200 Message-Id: <1150791580.5512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.44 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.44 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:21:22 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 18:39 +0800, James Henstridge wrote: > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. I don't want to show in the License dialog the entire license text but only the good old "This program is free software... [snip]....You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program..." snippet. I agree with you translations of license text could be problematic. But I don't think this is the case since the text only says which is the license and where to find it. Ciao, Paolo From gjc@inescporto.pt Tue Jun 20 07:09:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183533B05ED for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10580-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from animal.inescn.pt (correio.inescn.pt [194.117.24.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55F93B0450 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/7) with ESMTP id k5KB8Ngq012815; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:23 +0100 (WEST) Received: from pong.inescporto.pt (pong.inescn.pt [194.117.26.74]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/5) with ESMTP id k5KB88pn012723; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:08 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pong.inescporto.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B2AAEB66; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:04:51 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings From: Gustavo Carneiro To: Brent Smith In-Reply-To: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INESC Porto Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:08:06 +0200 Message-Id: <1150801686.6052.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at inescporto.pt X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.427 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.427 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Fernando Herrera , GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:09:25 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 20:11 -0600, Brent Smith wrote: > Fernando Herrera wrote: > > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > > > > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then > the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Sounds good. > > Any security implications there? None that I can see. -- Gustavo Carneiro INESC Porto From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 11:06:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298EF3B0135 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21825-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.239]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923863B00E9 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so1191720wra for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.136.11 with SMTP id j11mr644636wrd; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:06:07 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: About Unix Power for Gnome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: d7d7ccabfc274142 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:06:50 -0000 Hi all, I'm brand new here so first of all I'll present myself. My name is Christian, I'm from italy (really near Venice) and I've finished university (computer science) last October, of course I'm a free software user and enthusiast (actually using Debian on my desktop and Ubuntu on my notebook, both with Gnome as desktop environment). For my master thesis I've done a work that probably fit quite well with the Unix Power for Gnome problem raised by Rodrigo Moya about one year ago (http://blogs.gnome.org/view/rodrigo/2005/08/19/0). Last week I've published the project born from my thesis on sourceforge at http://sflux.sourceforge.net The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application. What I've thought is a way to describe a computer system (documents, applications and operations) using Semantic Web technologies (RDF/OWL/Sparql) so that S-Flux (the application I've done) can understand what operations can be done on a particular document(s) using the applications installed on the system, create a pipeline of operations and actually perform them. On the site you'll find a couple of screencast too, 'cause I know my english is not so good so seeing is better than reading :-) The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about it. Thanks a lot for the attention, ciao! Christian. From paolo.bacchilega@libero.it Tue Jun 20 12:45:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39F33B01C9; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29388-10; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp7.libero.it (smtp7.libero.it [193.70.192.90]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8D93B0EA1; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (172.16.1.8) by smtp7.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 4464C609038C90BE; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:44:55 +0200 Received: from smtp0.libero.it ([172.16.1.204]) by localhost (asav9.libero.it [193.70.192.87]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20713-03; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:44:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [151.53.96.255] (unknown [151.53.96.255]) by smtp0.libero.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FAAD3355E9; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:00 +0200 (MEST) Subject: file-roller branched From: Paolo Bacchilega To: Desktop Devel , GNOME Documentation , GNOME I18N List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:45 +0200 Message-Id: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: with antispam and antivirus automated system at libero.it X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.691 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708] X-Spam-Score: -0.691 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:45:03 -0000 Hi, the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. Regards, Paolo. From harmon@ksu.edu Tue Jun 20 12:49:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B223B0E2A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29748-09; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.cc.ksu.edu (smtp2.cc.ksu.edu [129.130.7.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52133B05F8; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [129.130.11.189] (dhcp19.user.cis.ksu.edu [129.130.11.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp2.cc.ksu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5KGnCK5017430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:49:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:50:20 -0500 From: "Scott J. Harmon" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060601) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paolo Bacchilega Subject: Re: file-roller branched References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1551/Tue Jun 20 08:37:21 2006 on virusfilter2.cc.ksu.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , GNOME Documentation , Desktop Devel X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:49:17 -0000 Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > Hi, > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture changing bugs... > Regards, > Paolo. > Thanks, Scott. From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 12:53:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C653B0CE7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30222-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCEE33B0F2A for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so390349wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.130.3 with SMTP id c3mr10723588wxd; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:53:35 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Scott J. Harmon" Subject: Re: file-roller branched In-Reply-To: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , Desktop Devel , GNOME Documentation X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:53:44 -0000 On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > Hi, > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > changing bugs... Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get freeze break approval) ;-) From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 13:36:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513113B00B7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00401-02 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.200]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F333B016D for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so396333wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.78.15 with SMTP id a15mr8688279wxb; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:35:47 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Elijah Newren" , "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs In-Reply-To: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:36:21 -0000 On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > management process, cf. signature. > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both (There is a patch but claims nss has to be disabled for e-d-s for it to work) Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html (Frederic Peters has a patch for this) evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) From murrayc@murrayc.com Tue Jun 20 14:28:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DA53B0188 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04324-10 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarthymail-a4.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-98.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.98]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082073B0499 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noname (p5497DB9C.dip.t-dialin.net [84.151.219.156]) by swarthymail-a4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A788129A8A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs From: Murray Cumming To: Elijah Newren In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:28:20 +0200 Message-Id: <1150828100.6261.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.482 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.117, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.482 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:28:27 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 11:35 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > > management process, cf. signature. > > > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: For really simple things, I think the release-team should just go ahead and fix it, and retarball where necessary, if you can't get a maintainer to do it. (Please, would the release team finally just go ahead and release a libglade 2.6.0 tarball?) -- Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From gnome@nextreality.net Tue Jun 20 22:39:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F893B0591 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00452-03 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE0F3B058E for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 6350235904; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E8E35901; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4498B158.8020609@nextreality.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:39:20 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Elijah Newren Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:10 -0000 Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: >> Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release >> management process, cf. signature. > >> "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be >> like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: > > [snip] > gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h Invoking build sheriff privileges. 2006-06-20 Brent Smith * configure.in: add GTK+ to PKG_CHECK_MODULES so the include path for GTK is specified in the cflags; patch from Elijah Newren, fixes #344695 -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From alexl@redhat.com Wed Jun 21 03:43:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94583B0AF9; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17803-09; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582E73B0E2A; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hjpZ001040; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:45 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hjGc003626; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:45 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hh2W014630; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:44 -0400 Subject: Re: file-roller branched From: Alexander Larsson To: Elijah Newren In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:43:43 +0200 Message-Id: <1150875824.16397.66.camel@greebo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , GNOME Documentation , Desktop Devel X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:43:53 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 10:53 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > > changing bugs... > > Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are > bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or > would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get > freeze break approval) ;-) I'm slightly annoyed at this listing of rules for when you need to branch. There is also the fact that 2.14 is *stable* and fixing bugs can destabilize it as much as adding features can. If you're unsure of the stability of bugfixes its very nice to be able to commit them to a branch immediately and then move the important and stable fixes to the stable branch. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl@redhat.com alla@lysator.liu.se He's a benighted zombie photographer who hides his scarred face behind a mask. She's a wealthy cigar-chomping fairy princess on her way to prison for a murder she didn't commit. They fight crime! From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 04:25:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D4F33B01E2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08370-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78233B0466 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so307952wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.21.9 with SMTP id 9mr2472173wxu; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:25:38 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 03c2f413749c9331 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:25:41 -0000 Really no opinion at all? Maybe something like: * "Good idea but..." * "I don't think that it can solve any problem" * "I really don't like it" * "What the hell is that thing?!" I'd really like to know your opinions. This is my first open project so any advice is really really useful. Ciao! Christian From danilo@gnome.org Thu Jun 22 04:58:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1E03B057D for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10849-01 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from supa.sekjur.com (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45B53B00C5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD61921F8CB; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown by localhost (amavisd-new, unix socket) id client-x7GIvx1J; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.134] (dhcp-87-116-155-154.marshall-bg.customer.sbb.co.yu [87.116.155.154]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520CD21F8C4; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome From: Danilo Segan To: Christian Barbato In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:58:35 +0200 Message-Id: <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sekjur.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.561 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.561 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:58:42 -0000 Hi Christian, У чет, 22. 06 2006. у 10:25 +0200, Christian Barbato пише: > I'd really like to know your opinions. This is my first open project > so any advice is really really useful. GUADEC[1], the Gnome conference, is starting in two days, and everyone is busy with preparations. :) You'll probably get your share of opinions once everything settles. Of course, you're welcome to join us in Vilanova i la Geltrú in Spain :) Cheers, Danilo [1] http://guadec.org/ From kalle.vahlman@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 05:02:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67BE83B0608 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11213-02 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EAAF3B0583 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so311544wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.1 with SMTP id r1mr2731910wxb; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.77.14 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <177e83dd0606220202qf17541eg57bf321e7a4e44d1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:02:12 +0300 From: "Kalle Vahlman" To: "Christian Barbato" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.163 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.437, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.163 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: zuh@iki.fi List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:02:17 -0000 2006/6/22, Christian Barbato : > Really no opinion at all? I think this is not the right medium for the opinions, this list is about developing GNOME, not talking about new applications (even if they do use/integrate with GNOME). The project itself sounds cool though, even if "The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application" doesn't sound like what it is really doing. Seems to me it's more like utilizing CLI programs in a GUI, and as such it only applies to stuff like image/sound/video conversions and other predefined non-interactive actions (not, for example, writing a document). -- Kalle Vahlman, zuh@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 05:35:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC663B00C5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13169-02 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80DBE3B00DE for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so315225wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.116.11 with SMTP id o11mr2771364wxc; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220235g7beadd90y7850879287ba1b68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:35:37 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: "Danilo Segan" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 643165173af50fa9 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:35:40 -0000 2006/6/22, Danilo Segan : > Hi Christian, > > > GUADEC[1], the Gnome conference, is starting in two days, and everyone > is busy with preparations. :) > > You'll probably get your share of opinions once everything settles. Of > course, you're welcome to join us in Vilanova i la Geltr=FA in Spain :) Thanks Danilo, it also seems that I've choosed the wrong mailing-list. Paolo Borelli suggested me gnome-love maybe I'll try there. And of course, I'd really LOVE to be there in Spain at GUADEC but I think I'm too late...maybe next year :-) Ciao! Christian From ruben@Lambda1.be Thu Jun 22 08:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49CC53B025B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26471-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from guri.is.scarlet.be (unknown [193.74.71.22]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32573B02A8 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ([62.235.142.250]) by guri.is.scarlet.be with ESMTP id k5MCks925486; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:55 +0200 Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5255F4604E4; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome From: Ruben Vermeersch To: Christian Barbato In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-DCC-scarlet.be-Metrics: guri 2020; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:47:21 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 17:06 +0200, Christian Barbato wrote: > The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to > deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about > it. Makes me think of Automator [1], which I've always liked as an idea (but never used it). The UI could use a lot of love though, you might want to check up with the HIG. The usefulness of this app will stand and fall with a good interface concept. Also, it should be made dead simple for apps to register their own hooks. Neat idea, but whether it's successful will be highly dependent on how it's worked out. Kind Regards, Ruben [1] http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/automator/ -- Ruben Vermeersch (rubenv) http://www.Lambda1.be/ From d2004@cosmopod.com Mon Jun 19 20:59:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672EA3B0319 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11366-08 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.cosmopod.com (unknown [216.75.2.64]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907E03B0E91 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.cosmopod.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by 64.cosmopod.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5K0vjXa023707 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:45 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by 64.cosmopod.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5K0vjP1023706 for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: 64.cosmopod.com: d2004 set sender to d2004@cosmopod.com using -f From: d2004@cosmopod.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Suggestions from a User Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:44 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.561 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_REAL_NAME=0.961, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -1.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:55:12 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:59:59 -0000 Dear GNOME Developers, I am an end-user wishing to supply some feedback/suggestions on improving o= ur=20 Desktop Environment. I have been using GNOME for quite a long time (first= =20 played with it in the 1.4 days and became a serious user with release 2.0/R= ed=20 Hat 8). I am however, just a user and have no development experience. I a= m=20 also new to this list, so if any of my comments or suggestions are ignorant= =20 or have already been discussed, please forgive me in advance. I was prompted to write this after reading the article in the latest GNOME= =20 Journal about end users: http://www.gnomejournal.org/article/46/the-gnome-community-end-users Hopefully, the following will provide some constructive and positive feedba= ck=20 on areas where the system can be improved. As noted, this is from a high-e= nd=20 user's perspective, (not someone particularly interested in keybindings on= =20 Metacity or the like! :-)) Here is my wishlist: 1. Evolution's spam filter is slow and not as efficient as that of=20 Thunderbird. Optimisation work in this area would be greatly appreciated. 2. When importing a single mail file into Evolution, displaying a list of= =20 files to select from shows the file name and the date but not the file size= =2E =20 Displaying the file size would make it easier to determine which file is=20 which, if there are a large number to choose from. 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for= =20 deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash= =20 rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universa= l=20 repository for deleted data. 4. A mail preview so that incoming messages could be seen without switchin= g=20 from other applications to Evolution all of the time would be appreciated. = =20 Outlook 2003 has a function whereby a message momentarily pops-up on screen= ,=20 allowing the user to see the name of the sender and the subject line. Such= a=20 pop-up may be annoying to some users; however, Google Desktop has an even=20 better solution whereby, in "Sidebar" mode, it displays a list of recent=20 mails on screen. Clicking on one allows it to be opened out and previewed.= =20 =46rom there, clicking on it again opens the actual message in Outlook. A= =20 similar mail preview system for GNOME would therefore result in people bein= g=20 able to see new messages without constantly switching between applications= =20 and also enable them to determine if a message was particularly important. 5. One feature I greatly miss from GEdit is a "block select" function to c= ut=20 and past "blocks" of mono-spaced text. KATE and gVIM have this functionali= ty=20 and, even for non-programmers, it is extremely handy. 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the user= is=20 entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only browser I know of=20 with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has it.) 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, the= =20 user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user wants to= =20 download multiple images from a page, without saving the whole thing. IT=20 also seems, from the usability studies I have read online that new and=20 inexperienced users have a reticence towards right-clicking. The various=20 usability studies I have read by Sun and Novell seem to indicate that peopl= e=20 often do not think to right-click to configure the clock or activate applet= s. =20 Therefore, functions that are present in right-click menus only, such as th= at=20 to save images in the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an ent= ry=20 to "Save All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I know th= at=20 it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) because I can run = it=20 successfully under kppp. However, attempting to configure it under GNOME=20 results in failure as it cannot be detected. This is annoying as, for one= =20 reason, it limits me from using a GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. = =20 kppp is a more than adequate workaround but it would be great for GNOME to= =20 also support these. I realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to=20 broadband but in my (first-world) country there are still many home users=20 with dial-up only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. 9. Also related to this, it is difficult to locate hardware configuration= =20 data under GNOME, such as ports and interrupts. KDE have a centralised=20 hardware browser that provides detailed system information for those seekin= g=20 it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather than= =20 later. 10. A font management system. I did some research and found a short=20 discussion here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2006-March/msg00203.html Indeed, lacking something even the equivalent of the Mac Suitcase is an=20 impediment. =20 11. As that same message notes, DTP is a hole on Linux at the moment. Whi= lst=20 there are a few good applications, such as Scribus and KreetingKard, to=20 appeal to two levels of developer, there are no GTK-based equivalents to=20 promote healthy competition. Such applications are rarely included on=20 distributions. Even Inkscape and Bluefish are often relegated to "extras"=20 repositories. It would be great if more work on consumer level DTP=20 applications could be undertaken. This does not necessarily mean tools=20 equivalent to the likes of Quark and Adobe but smaller programs such as tho= se=20 produced by Serif and Printshop. I realise this would take much time and=20 many resources though. Also, promotion of the likes of Inkscape so that they are more visible to=20 users and included in the "Core" disks of distributions like Fedora would=20 raise the profile of such projects. Perhaps you could lobby the Fedora=20 people? 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the spatial= =20 mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the need for a file= =20 MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming, printing lists of=20 directory structures and so on. Obviously such is readily done from within= =20 the Shell but it would be great if a GNOME tool could do the same. 13. For those managing small networks, it would be great to have=20 the /etc/MOTD file (Message of the Day) appear each time users log in. For= =20 example, if I had a small school network, there may be a message I would li= ke=20 the users to see. A small dialogue box displaying this file on login would= =20 be handy. Obviously, an ability to disable it would be needed and it shoul= d=20 not be activated by default or it would be intrusive to those people with=20 single-user systems. 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like the=20 concept of circular menus mentioned here: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html It seems likely that, by reducing mouse movements, they would improve syste= m=20 ergonomics. Another advantage would be that, in their uniqueness, they wou= ld=20 help to differentiate GNOME from the alternative desktops. Such uniqueness= =20 is always positive marketing, which is why I rankle when I read of certain= =20 parties wanting to make GNOME more similar to Windows. Whilst it may help= =20 users make a transition from WIndows, it does not help give them an incenti= ve=20 to move. GNOME needs to be unique and the care to detail and usability is= =20 part of what has already attracted many people (myself included.) By=20 combining thoughtful ergonomics with eye-catching (but non-distracting)=20 visual ideas, this should help gain an even greater user base. 15. My final request is a purely personal indulgence. It would be great t= o=20 have a GNOME chess game. With the Gnuchess engine available, I am surprise= d=20 no one has included a GTK-based GNOME game due to this pasttime's enduring= =20 popularity, so I would like to lobby for this! That is the sum of my input. I hope that at least some of my ideas are=20 helpful or generate constructive discussion. I look forward to your=20 feedback. I am a newbie here, so do not be too cruel! I realise that soe = of=20 these proposals would be huge work but they are simply ideas of things I=20 would like to see. Maybe next year, maybe in Topaz, maybe even beyond that= =2E =20 There is a lot of work but the GNOME community has already come a long way.= =20 Best wishes to everyone, Danni From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 09:24:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 855FD3B041B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30123-10 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.204]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DEE3B00B8 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so351325wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.1 with SMTP id r1mr3101621wxb; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220624g442a5c35u1392f8a9bff8f25d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:24:57 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: "Ruben Vermeersch" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5e57a2bb7844bd75 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:24:59 -0000 2006/6/22, Ruben Vermeersch : > > Makes me think of Automator [1], which I've always liked as an idea (but > never used it). Oh yes. Automator was announced when I was in the middle of my project. I felt so bad, thinking that I arrived late and someone else developed my idea. But then, when Automator was released, I've looked well at it and tried it too. There are many differences between SFlux and Automator, but probably the one that I care more about is that Automator don't hide the other applications on the system and don't filter out the proposed operations on the basis of the input document(s) (it can be seen as a list of all the operations of all the applications, SFlux actually filter them). > > The UI could use a lot of love though, you might want to check up with > the HIG. The usefulness of this app will stand and fall with a good > interface concept. Bingo! The actual UI is really bad and I have to dramatically improve it. > > Also, it should be made dead simple for apps to register their own > hooks. Bingo again! Thanks a lot for your opinions. Christian. From uws@uwsworld.xs4all.nl Thu Jun 22 10:05:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9163B07F7 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00570-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uwsworld.xs4all.nl (uwsworld.xs4all.nl [194.109.237.238]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E8A3B042E for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uws by uwsworld.xs4all.nl with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1FtPoE-0000V5-00; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200 From: Wouter Bolsterlee To: d2004@cosmopod.com Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User Message-ID: <20060622140525.GA1605@uwsworld.xs4all.nl> Mail-Followup-To: d2004@cosmopod.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> X-message-flag: Guvf zrffntr qbrf abg pbagnva rapelcgrq zrffntrf. X-PGP: key 0x250A63EB, fingerprint 83C5 C205 47AD 539D A4F0 60BF 3FB4 134E 250A 63EB X-Base: All your base are belong to uws User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040907i Sender: Wouter Bolsterlee X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:05:32 -0000 --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First of all, thanks for your input! P=C3=A5 Mon, Jun 19, 2006 at 05:57:44PM -0700, d2004@cosmopod.com skrev: > 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the us= er is=20 > entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only browser I know of= =20 > with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has it.) This feature is being worked on. You can search bugzilla for the bug report and add yourself to the Cc field to track progress. > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, th= e=20 > user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user wants = to=20 > download multiple images from a page, without saving the whole thing. IT= =20 > also seems, from the usability studies I have read online that new and=20 > inexperienced users have a reticence towards right-clicking. The various= =20 > usability studies I have read by Sun and Novell seem to indicate that peo= ple=20 > often do not think to right-click to configure the clock or activate appl= ets. =20 > Therefore, functions that are present in right-click menus only, such as = that=20 > to save images in the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an e= ntry=20 > to "Save All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. I think not many people will use this feature. Therefore it's unlikely that it will be implemented. A tip: just save the page to disk. All related files such as images and stylesheets will be saved to disk as well. > 9. Also related to this, it is difficult to locate hardware configuratio= n=20 > data under GNOME, such as ports and interrupts. KDE have a centralised= =20 > hardware browser that provides detailed system information for those seek= ing=20 > it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather tha= n=20 > later. Have you tried hal-device-manager? mvrgr, Wouter --=20 :wq mail uws@xs4all.nl web http://uwstopia.nl tell myself that i'm not ready yet :: i want to live -- heather nova --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEmqOlP7QTTiUKY+sRAvBsAJ9a45WezIlO/V1hu6kiJ+TwULIJIgCgjOfG vityiebrWNVfZMLvyKzGC7I= =EQ4+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv-- From john.williams.lists@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 01:07:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F683B0670 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15165-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90CE3B06B8 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 34so700008nzf for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.134.15 with SMTP id h15mr3169537nzd; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?202.150.121.117? ( [202.150.121.117]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 6sm3937185nzn.2006.06.22.22.05.57; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User From: John Williams To: d2004@cosmopod.com In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:09:14 +1200 Message-Id: <1151039354.9177.9.camel@office.falcon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.294 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.229, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.294 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 05:07:02 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 17:57 -0700, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I know that > it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) because I can run it > successfully under kppp. However, attempting to configure it under GNOME > results in failure as it cannot be detected. This is annoying as, for one > reason, it limits me from using a GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. > kppp is a more than adequate workaround but it would be great for GNOME to > also support these. I realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to > broadband but in my (first-world) country there are still many home users > with dial-up only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. Hi Danni, and thanks for your mail. At the risk of adding a trivial "me too" message, I would like to amplify your point above. I believe that our problem (I have a similar one) is part of a bigger picture for GNOME. It is this: Software developers, in general, appear to have (and develop on) higher-end systems than those of the average user. I am referring here in particular to CPU speed, RAM and network access speed. One of the many consequences of this is that GNOME networking applications and associated infrastructure are very, very poor at accommodating users with modems, and relatedly, with slow (57k, say) access to the Internet. Not only is it very hard (I have never managed to do it) to set up GNOME's modem tool (I have to use the Network Configuration tool, and log in as root as a consequence), once you are connected many applications have no idea how do deal with: (a) slow connection speeds; and (b) intermittent connectivity Issues related to this can be seen most clearly in Evolution, but also in yumex. In fact, I am about ready to give up on Evolution totally after having used it ever since its first release. I kept on hoping that it would improve, but years down the track it appears that due to the point I raise above (developers not walking in the shoes of users) it will never happen. Sigh. After all that, I would like to say a huge THANKS to all the GNOME developers for all the really, really good stuff that the GNOME community has produced over the years. GNOME is really cool. But let's face it: it's not ready for the (non-corporate, general user) desktop yet. From psankar@novell.com Fri Jun 23 02:04:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BB53B0262 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17962-01 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sinclair.provo.novell.com (sinclair.provo.novell.com [137.65.81.169]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E763B01D2 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from INET-PRV-MTA by sinclair.provo.novell.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:03:57 -0600 Message-Id: <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:03:49 -0600 From: "P Sankar" To: Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User References: <449A5BCF0200004800012AAE@sinclair.provo.novell.com> <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> In-Reply-To: <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.479 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2] X-Spam-Score: -2.479 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:04:04 -0000 Hi, Thanks a lot for your suggestions. On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 12:58 +0000, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > 1. Evolution's spam filter is slow and not as efficient as that of > Thunderbird. Optimisation work in this area would be greatly appreciated. You need to train the spam filter for a few days to make it work effectively. This will help to develop the spam-detection-knowledge. There has been a discussion going on about letting the user choose SpamAssasin or Bogofilter. You can peek at the discussion on http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-hackers/2006-May/msg00062.html > 2. When importing a single mail file into Evolution, displaying a list of > files to select from shows the file name and the date but not the file size. > Displaying the file size would make it easier to determine which file is > which, if there are a large number to choose from. The file-open dialog used in Evolution is the gnome-wide GtkFileChooser. I believe that people hacking on it would have noted this discussion and will provide the ability to customize the columns in the dialog soon. > > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for > deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash > rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universal > repository for deleted data. I am not sure if this will be useful. If you have a remote account (IMAP/Exchange/GW) we are left with no choice other than keeping the deleted items in the server, so that they will be accesible everywhere. So they need to be on the Trash-folder on the accounts. And it will be confusing to have different Trash folder behaviors for local and remote Trash folders. > > 4. A mail preview so that incoming messages could be seen without switching > from other applications to Evolution all of the time would be appreciated. > Outlook 2003 has a function whereby a message momentarily pops-up on screen, > allowing the user to see the name of the sender and the subject line. Such a > pop-up may be annoying to some users; however, Google Desktop has an even > better solution whereby, in "Sidebar" mode, it displays a list of recent > mails on screen. Clicking on one allows it to be opened out and previewed. > >From there, clicking on it again opens the actual message in Outlook. A > similar mail preview system for GNOME would therefore result in people being > able to see new messages without constantly switching between applications > and also enable them to determine if a message was particularly important. *NOD* There needs to be a better new mail notification mechanism than the current BEEP or run-custom-program. This is already in the task list for the Evolution 2.8 release. (http://www.go-evolution.org/Mailer-2.8) Allowing the user to open/delete new mails without coming to the Evolution window. In the meanwhile you can try http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/garnome/geektoys/mail-notification/files/?only_with_tag=gnome-2-14 Your distro might ship with a new mail notification program already. You can ask for more details in your distro's forum. Sankar From mpt@myrealbox.com Sat Jun 24 03:22:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1243B0223 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29957-04 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leucothea.redline.site5.com (leucothea.redline.site5.com [216.118.97.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276F93B0360 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 203-173-178-53.bliink.ihug.co.nz ([203.173.178.53] helo=[10.1.1.5]) by leucothea.redline.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fu2T6-0006IN-Og; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Message-Id: <5f4833cdbee1bce1686a79531ed478a0@myrealbox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) From: Matthew Paul Thomas Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:22:21 +1200 To: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV. X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - leucothea.redline.site5.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - myrealbox.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.412 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.412 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:22:23 -0000 Hi Danni On Jun 20, 2006, at 12:57 PM, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > ... > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more=20 > logical for deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and=20= > go to system trash rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make=20= > system trash a universal repository for deleted data. That would be nifty, but the mail-specific Trash would still be useful=20= as a way of viewing only the deleted items that were e-mail messages. > ... > 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the=20= > user is entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only=20 > browser I know of with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has=20= > it.) > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images,=20= > the user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user=20= > wants to download multiple images from a page, without saving the=20 > whole thing. IT also seems, from the usability studies I have read=20 > online that new and inexperienced users have a reticence towards=20 > right-clicking. The various usability studies I have read by Sun and=20= > Novell seem to indicate that people often do not think to right-click=20= > to configure the clock or activate applets. Therefore, functions that=20= > are present in right-click menus only, such as that to save images in=20= > the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an entry to "Save=20= > All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. Or you could drag the image from the Web page onto your desktop or into=20= a folder, which works right now. (Granted, it doesn't work for images=20 that are inside links. But there are less obtrusive ways saving could=20 be provided for those too -- for example, the "Save As=85" button in the=20= Media tab of Firefox's Page Info window.) > 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I=20 > know that it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) =20 > because I can run it successfully under kppp. However, attempting to=20= > configure it under GNOME results in failure as it cannot be detected. =20= > This is annoying as, for one reason, it limits me from using a=20 > GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. kppp is a more than adequate=20= > workaround but it would be great for GNOME to also support these. I=20= > realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to broadband but in my=20 > (first-world) country there are still many home users with dial-up=20 > only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. Agreed -- the lack of easy-to-use dialup configuration makes Gnome much=20= less interesting for 22% of people online in the USA, 46% in China, 69%=20= in Australia, 70% in New Zealand, about 70% in India, and so on. > ... > 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the=20 > spatial mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the=20 > need for a file MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming,=20= > printing lists of directory structures and so on. > ... I can't think of any reason for these features not to be in Nautilus.=20 (You can already rename single items, just not in the way Windows and=20 Mac OS let you do it.) > ... > 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like=20= > the concept of circular menus mentioned here: > > http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html > ... =46rom what I've seen, circular menus don't scale to more than about 12=20= items, especially if they contain text. Cheers --=20 Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/= From gnome-desktop-devel-list@m.gmane.org Sat Jun 24 10:52:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C43C3B07F1 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20276-09 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355323B0402 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fu9Uv-0005Qs-Pm for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 Received: from sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.223.202]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 Received: from sdl.web by sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org From: Leon Subject: install applet server file without root Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:52:26 +0100 Lines: 14 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAEAAAAASCAMAAADc8SgQAAAAwFBMVEUCBQEJDAgTFRIaHBof IB4jJCIrLCotLywyNDE3OTY8Pjs/QD5FRkRJS0hRU1BWV1VbXVpiZGFnaWZrbWptb2xvcW52eHV5 enh+gH2Bg4CHiYaLjYqNj4yRk5CXmZaanJmdn5ygop+mqKWqrKmsrqutr6yxs7CztbK4ure7vbq/ wb7DxcLHycbJy8jNz8vQ0s/T1dLW2NXc3tvf4d7h5ODl5+Po6ufr7enu8O3x8/Dz9fL1+PT4+vf6 /Pn7/fr+//wGuxWtAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAALEwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH1gIaAyMw1+FInQAAAXxJ REFUOMulk+tygjAQhalFWodYvIwyiNUKA95QVLwQhLPv/1ZNAKWX8Yd6ZsLAZvdL9iQo9KSUx0v3 0wV/BjDSzZY6exxw0BJgrqaPApBtQeDK6eEdAGJ4DQhAZjFmWVZf798LmTUi6QGgmQCysHtfeWa1 OXITj8pMYrh9Vz03vmQbEuArMeETSZBPpIdKvMg9B2faL2NKgl3R/zZIuFZnjDW5bKGnrVfmROLk 5LhWqVmEbEcfu8u3+XD14YrvjeEsWRrlyj3QDN/To6u96VVJmkdO40AJAVU4ZQqfInWDhcpRSABi ZQ4MQYusPJ9KRSDhtgEclROBjQhGK8+hfMgdeMICSpGaRf6iU8kuiUzwnXdQ/BJleJ38/pnQ0yUJ g8JDbOxKbnlgtZDQ7Ql/GGzUxZnR7ngBxEHdCMP1rKOD/rVQhlY18aL5BMuczmncTmJnkF4AO9/3 PN9z3e3tW3uciodzFm58LcUCwWgS4drC39Vu3XsqbMu7/Zn8DYna+irHnqnQAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.0 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+0hFUCRQH6hd8ZYC5JEjXZlI6H8= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.593 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.593 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:52:39 -0000 Dear all, I am learning programming applets for gnome but it seems it requires root privilege to install and test applets. Seanni[1] has met the same issue but seems no one can answer. My question is how can a user (no root) install a .server file. Thank you all. Footnotes: [1] http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10650 -- Leon From reinouts@gnome.org Sat Jun 24 18:37:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E423B0094; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05211-10; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psmtp02.wxs.nl (psmtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.247.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57AC3B00DB; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from reinout.rotterdam-cs.com (ip5656924e.speed.planet.nl [86.86.146.78]) by psmtp02.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.02 (built Oct 21 2004)) with SMTP id <0J1D00E2UYSL68@psmtp02.wxs.nl>; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:36:28 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:39:02 +0200 From: Reinout van Schouwen Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, epiphany-list@gnome.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2 (This is not a psychotic episode. It's a cleansing moment of clarity.) References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> <20060622140525.GA1605@uwsworld.xs4all.nl> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:37:26 -0000 cc: epiphany-list On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200, Wouter Bolsterlee wrote: >> 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, >> the user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user > > I think not many people will use this feature. Therefore it's unlikely > that it will be implemented. To the contrary: someone has made a preliminary implementation of an Image Toolbar extension that shows a Save button when mousing over any image. However it was quite buggy and unfinished, so it now lingers somewhere in bugzilla... regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 00:09:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A193B02E4 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15859-06 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.207]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E163B0091 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so1472997nzh for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.47.19 with SMTP id u19mr4006827qbu; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:08:17 +0100 From: Who To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Nautilus Sidebar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.554 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.554 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 04:09:10 -0000 Hello List, A quick introduction before my main email: I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list about 5 months now... So, take my suggestions in the light of that description. Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is relevant to what the user is doing. See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in Nautilus that can display results from different engines. Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have any intentions to integrate into Nautilus I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related to this. Thanks in advance Who From glennji@gmail.com Sun Jun 25 08:18:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4B13B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12998-10 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.224]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15EC23B008C for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i12so909903wra for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.80.13 with SMTP id d13mr6295680wrb; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.99.17 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:17:45 +0100 From: "Glenn J. Mason" To: Who Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257" References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: glenn@glennji.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:18:41 -0000 ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type > specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The > idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is > relevant to what the user is doing. > > Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project > Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have > any intentions to integrate into Nautilus > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is the end of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. Was it just too much overhead on the system or something? Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]? It's a way to offer a similar thing in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions sidebar too? [1] http://www.grumz.net/index.php?q=taxonomy/term/2/9 -- Glenn J. Mason - "Glennji" Happy hacking! http://glennji.com/ ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type
specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The
idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is
relevant to what the user is doing.

Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project
Dashboard ( www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have
any intentions to integrate into Nautilus

Yeah, what happened to Dashboard?  The last update on the weblog is the end of 2003.  I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets.  Was it just too much overhead on the system or something?

Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]?  It's a way to offer a similar thing in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions sidebar too?

[1] http://www.grumz.net/index.php?q=taxonomy/term/2/9

--
Glenn J. Mason - "Glennji"
Happy hacking!
http://glennji.com/ ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257-- From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 08:38:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3553B00FE for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13730-08 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89CEE3B00D9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 34so1251591nzf for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.3.9 with SMTP id 9mr4129558qbc; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606250538l3f303826sce8eb515ee2c24fb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:38:06 +0100 From: Who To: glenn@glennji.com Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:38:10 -0000 On 6/25/06, Glenn J. Mason wrote: Snip my original message: > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is the end > of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", > like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. Was it just too much > overhead on the system or something? I have no 'inside information' but I remember reading that it's development was stalled in order to allow Beagle (which Dashboard will use a lot) to be completed. Beagle search that is cleverly targeted at the files currently selected in Nautilus is exactly the type of thing I was thinking about for the sidebar - providing 'Files edited at a similar time and of the same type as this' and 'Files containing the title of this document' - or even 'GAIM conversations about this' in the sidebar The idea would be that Beagle Search could be one engine for the sidebar - and many other things could be used along side it IF required > Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]? It's a way to offer a similar thing > in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions > sidebar too? I do use Nautilus actions - but I feel that it is not perfect because * It can only display static menu entries (as far as I know) - no query based items or previews or other things like that. * Having many options makes the menus too large/complicated and makes it harder to get to the other context menu functions * The need to right click makes it less intuitive for new users The link I sent mentioned having a Nautilus Actions engine for the sidebar design I am suggesting/asking about - I think it would be great :) Thanks for the feedback, Who From olafra@gmail.com Sun Jun 25 11:07:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48193B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18625-02 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.205]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7767F3B0097 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s1so1247426nze for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.4 with SMTP id y4mr6610751nzi; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.14.57 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:07:05 +0000 From: "Olafur Arason" To: Who Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853" References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.254 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.145, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.254 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:07:38 -0000 ------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more. Olafur Arason On 6/25/06, Who wrote: > > Hello List, > > A quick introduction before my main email: > I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I > write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux > programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am > keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work > and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI > design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list > about 5 months now... > > So, take my suggestions in the light of that description. > > Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type > specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The > idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is > relevant to what the user is doing. > > See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions > > There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding > very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in > Nautilus that can display results from different engines. > > > Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project > Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have > any intentions to integrate into Nautilus > > I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the > feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related > to this. > > Thanks in advance > > Who > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked
countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer
they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single
purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have
and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct
actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more.

Olafur Arason

On 6/25/06, Who <mailforwho@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hello List,

A quick introduction before my main email:
I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I
write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux
programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am
keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work
and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI
design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list
about 5 months now...

So, take my suggestions in the light of that description.

Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type
specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The
idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is
relevant to what the user is doing.

See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions

There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding
very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in
Nautilus that can display results from different engines.


Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project
Dashboard ( www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have
any intentions to integrate into Nautilus

I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the
feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related
to this.

Thanks in advance

Who
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------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853-- From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Sun Jun 25 11:13:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298513B00BB for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18789-08 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A3873B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.11] helo=salmon.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 25 Jun 2006 16:13:07 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:13:06 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: d2004@cosmopod.com Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Message-ID: References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.592 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.592 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:13:21 -0000 On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:44 -0700 > From: d2004@cosmopod.com > To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Subject: Suggestions from a User > > Dear GNOME Developers, > > I am an end-user wishing to supply some feedback/suggestions on > improving our Desktop Environment. For future reference it can be quite difficult to address all points of a long list so it might be best trying to stick to one or two points per mail (and I say that as someone who tries to be succint but I usually sending long verbose messages which dont get the best response). > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for > deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash > rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universal > repository for deleted data. If you are using Maildir the each individual message is already a seperate file but other implementations work quite differently. Very interesting idea but I wonder how difficult it might be to implent it. > 5. One feature I greatly miss from GEdit is a "block select" function to cut > and past "blocks" of mono-spaced text. KATE and gVIM have this functionality > and, even for non-programmers, it is extremely handy. > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, the Historically the two major browser manufacturers had other vested interests, Netscape in particular sold web server software and weren't exactly enthusiastic about tools which made it really easy for users to leech and scape content off the web (took forever before they added "Save Complete Web Page"). I put some effort into learning wget which makes it easier to scrape large batches of files from the internet but there should some graphical download tools out there to help too. I expect Epiphany might be interested in offering the feature you want but the risk might be if this feature ("save images only") didn't clutter things up and confuse users but maybe it would work out nicely. File a request in bugzilla, the Epiphany developers might be happy to add your suggestion (I wonder if it might be possible to create a firefox extension to do the same or if one already exists?) > it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather than > later. > 11. As that same message notes, DTP is a hole on Linux at the moment. Scribus is pretty good. I would much rather see infrastructure improved so QT and KDE applcations can integrate nicely into a GNOME desktop than anything else. Passepartout is an interesting application and it might be able to carve out a niche for basic publishing but it needs more developers (what project doesn't!). > Whilst there are a few good applications, such as Scribus and > KreetingKard, to appeal to two levels of developer, there are no > GTK-based equivalents to promote healthy competition. I've heard good things about Glabels. http://glabels.sourceforge.net/ > are rarely included on distributions. When more distributions switch to using a DVD (as opposed to CDs) as their primary format things might change and more software might be offered by default. > 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the spatial > mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the need for a file > MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming, printing lists of > directory structures and so on. Obviously such is readily done from within > the Shell but it would be great if a GNOME tool could do the same. The following bug report might be of interest: "rename multiple files at once" http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=306489 I wouldn't mind a tool which could take a look at all my downloads and allow me to sort them or set up filters as easily as I can do for incoming mail. A tool which was able to group files with common name patterns (or size, date, time, patterns) and then offer to sort them and put them in subfolders could be quite useful too. (A few years ago I vaguely recall looking at a tidy/cleanup tool which amongst other things would help you clear out empty unused folders but I doubt I'd be able to find it again.) > 13. For those managing small networks, it would be great to have > the /etc/MOTD file (Message of the Day) appear each time users log in. This question has been answered before, I believe they recommended some combination of Zenity and MOTD. > be handy. Obviously, an ability to disable it would be needed and it should > not be activated by default or it would be intrusive to those people with > single-user systems. (I should warn you this kind of thing sounds quite annoying and likely to be ignored by most users even if the intentions behind it are good.) > 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like the > concept of circular menus mentioned here: > http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html I've tried two drawing applications for windows, Alias Sketch and another very similar program called Artrage both of which make small use of circular menus and it can be quite useful. I wouldn't think it would suitable in most cases, best left to pen driven interfaces or applications which mostly use the mouse. > 15. My final request is a purely personal indulgence. It would be great to > have a GNOME chess game. With the Gnuchess engine available, I am surprised > no one has included a GTK-based GNOME game due to this pasttime's enduring > popularity, so I would like to lobby for this! Many chess games exist already and I believe there are a few GTK chess games if you go out and look for them. You wouldn't believe the work required to maintain Gnome games. > That is the sum of my input. I hope that at least some of my ideas are > helpful or generate constructive discussion. I look forward to your > feedback. I would have replied sooner but your message contained so many small points it took a very long time to respond to them. A few short points is often better, and taking your suggestions directly to the developers (of Nautilus, and Epiphany) is more likely to get relevant responses. > I am a newbie here, so do not be too cruel! I realise that soe of > these proposals would be huge work but they are simply ideas of things I > would like to see. -- Alan From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 11:48:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B823B008F for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19856-05 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.206]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7903B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so1532917nzh for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.115.18 with SMTP id s18mr5346240qbm; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606250847h690c57bl76f02034f0ba8e03@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:47:24 +0100 From: Who To: "Olafur Arason" Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.57 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:48:15 -0000 On 6/25/06, Olafur Arason wrote: > The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked > countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer > they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single > purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have > and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct > actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more. > > Olafur Arason > > I think that it failing to be noticed is a problem with the default configuratins, not with the tool itself. Perhaps we can think of some way to make it more discoverable - like a context menu item that says 'view more options in sidebar' when the sidebar isn't shown, does anyone have any other ideas? I fully agree that 'less is more' :) I think we want to provide really relevant actions/files/information. From johan@svedberg.com Sun Jun 25 17:53:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7563A3B01C9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04366-04 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.acc.umu.se (mail.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.156]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5753B00E9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id B664E5B for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: from suiko.acc.umu.se (suiko.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.162]) by mail.acc.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF174E for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: by suiko.acc.umu.se (Postfix, from userid 24225) id D4793803; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:45 +0200 From: Johan Svedberg To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: install applet server file without root Message-ID: <20060625235209.GA647bd.johan@svedberg.com> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at acc.umu.se X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:53:49 -0000 * Jun 24 16:53 Leon : > I am learning programming applets for gnome but it seems it requires > root privilege to install and test applets. Seanni[1] has met the same > issue but seems no one can answer. This is probably not the right place for this kind of questions. Don't know what is though. > My question is how can a user (no root) install a .server file. Thank > you all. You need to set BONOBO_ACTIVATION_PATH=/path/to/bonobo/servers -- Johan Svedberg, johan@svedberg.com, http://johan.svedberg.com/ From joeshaw@novell.com Tue Jun 27 10:10:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCBC3B013F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01576-09 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4E53B00F3 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26455 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2006 14:10:23 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?10.0.11.44?) (joe@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 27 Jun 2006 14:10:23 -0000 Subject: Re: Dashboard (was Nautilus Sidebar) From: Joe Shaw To: glenn@glennji.com In-Reply-To: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:08:41 -0400 Message-Id: <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.476 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2] X-Spam-Score: -2.476 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:10:56 -0000 Hi, On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 13:17 +0100, Glenn J. Mason wrote: > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is > the end of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information > display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. I actually just gave a talk about this yesterday at GUADEC. :) Dashboard was somewhat set aside while we developed Beagle. Dashboard is being revived as a Summer of Code project, though. Unfortunately there's not really any code to show yet. > Was it just too much overhead on the system or something? > It may be at some point, but we just didn't have enough applications instrumented at the time for this to be an issue. Joe From mailforwho@googlemail.com Tue Jun 27 11:32:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB943B009F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05536-10 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320263B0075 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f25so1888847pyf for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.37.18 with SMTP id p18mr7316061pyj; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606270831i5dd82a1bhef1c6bd07ac6adee@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:31:51 +0100 From: Who To: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Re: Dashboard (was Nautilus Sidebar) In-Reply-To: <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.581 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.581 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, glenn@glennji.com X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:32:26 -0000 On 6/27/06, Joe Shaw wrote: > I actually just gave a talk about this yesterday at GUADEC. :) > > Dashboard was somewhat set aside while we developed Beagle. Dashboard > is being revived as a Summer of Code project, though. Unfortunately > there's not really any code to show yet. > Are there any plans to put it in the Nautilus Sidebar, or for anything vaugely similar to the functionality described at http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions ? I'm still interested in hearing whether anyone thinks such an idea is possible, or worth doing :) Who From iaingnome@gmail.com Thu Jun 29 19:30:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276F13B00B5 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14918-06 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7D03B0095 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id z74so24973pyg for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.63.2 with SMTP id q2mr26810pyk; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.45.19 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35fafc140606291630y2f4f73d4nbcd9c0fa649ad3fc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:30:15 +0100 From: "Iain *" To: rah@rahga.com, "Desktop Development List" Subject: [PATCH]In death members of Project Mayhem have a name MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.365 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.365 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:30:17 -0000 ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi, My name is iain. I make patches. Here is one. I was playing Tali and noticed that my player is called "Human" by default. Attached is a patch that uses g_get_real_name so that I don't feel quite so generic when I play it. iain ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name=his-name-is-robert-polson.patch; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_ep1qym8l Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="his-name-is-robert-polson.patch" SW5kZXg6IGd0YWxpL2d5YWh0emVlLmMKPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQpSQ1MgZmlsZTogL2N2cy9nbm9tZS9n bm9tZS1nYW1lcy9ndGFsaS9neWFodHplZS5jLHYKcmV0cmlldmluZyByZXZpc2lvbiAxLjc5CmRp ZmYgLVUyIC1yMS43OSBneWFodHplZS5jCi0tLSBndGFsaS9neWFodHplZS5jCTExIEFwciAyMDA2 IDA5OjQyOjA4IC0wMDAwCTEuNzkKKysrIGd0YWxpL2d5YWh0emVlLmMJMjkgSnVuIDIwMDYgMjM6 MjE6NTggLTAwMDAKQEAgLTc2MCw3ICs3NjAsMTggQEAKIAogICAgICAgICBmb3IgKGkgPSAwOyBp IDwgTUFYX05VTUJFUl9PRl9QTEFZRVJTICYmIG5hbWVfbGlzdDsgaSsrKSB7Ci0gICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgaWYgKG5hbWVfbGlzdC0+ZGF0YSkKLSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHBsYXll cnNbaV0ubmFtZSA9IGdfc3RyZHVwIChuYW1lX2xpc3QtPmRhdGEpOwotICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IAorICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGlmIChuYW1lX2xpc3QtPmRhdGEpIHsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIGlmIChzdHJjYXNlY21wIChuYW1lX2xpc3QtPmRhdGEsIF8oIkh1bWFuIikpID09 IDApIHsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgY2hhciAqcmVhbG5hbWU7CisK KyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLyogT2xkIGRhdGE6IFVwZGF0ZSAqLwor ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICByZWFsbmFtZSA9IGdfc3RyZHVwIChnX2dl dF9yZWFsX25hbWUgKCkpOworICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBnX3N0cmRl bGltaXQgKHJlYWxuYW1lLCAiICIsICdcMCcpOworICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgcGxheWVyc1tpXS5uYW1lID0g cmVhbG5hbWU7CisgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB9IGVsc2UgeworICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBwbGF5ZXJzW2ldLm5hbWUgPSBnX3N0cmR1cCAobmFtZV9saXN0 LT5kYXRhKTsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIH0KKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB9CisK ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBuYW1lX2xpc3QgPSBnX3NsaXN0X25leHQgKG5hbWVfbGlzdCk7CiAg ICAgICAgIH0KSW5kZXg6IGd0YWxpL3lhaHR6ZWUuYwo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09ClJDUyBmaWxlOiAvY3Zz L2dub21lL2dub21lLWdhbWVzL2d0YWxpL3lhaHR6ZWUuYyx2CnJldHJpZXZpbmcgcmV2aXNpb24g MS4yNApkaWZmIC1VMiAtcjEuMjQgeWFodHplZS5jCi0tLSBndGFsaS95YWh0emVlLmMJMjkgTWFy IDIwMDYgMDk6MjM6MDkgLTAwMDAJMS4yNAorKysgZ3RhbGkveWFodHplZS5jCTI5IEp1biAyMDA2 IDIzOjIxOjU4IC0wMDAwCkBAIC0zNSw0ICszNSw3IEBACiAKICNpbmNsdWRlIDxjb25maWcuaD4K KworI2luY2x1ZGUgPGdsaWIuaD4KKwogI2luY2x1ZGUgInlhaHR6ZWUuaCIKIApAQCAtNTgsNSAr NjEsNSBAQAogaW50IERpc3BsYXlDb21wdXRlclRob3VnaHRzID0gMDsKIGludCBDdXJyZW50UGxh eWVyOwotY2hhciAqRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW01BWF9OVU1CRVJfT0ZfUExBWUVSU10gPSB7 IE5fKCJIdW1hbiIpLAorY2hhciAqRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW01BWF9OVU1CRVJfT0ZfUExB WUVSU10gPSB7IE5VTEwsCiAJCQkJCQkgICAgIldpbGJlciIsCiAJCQkJCQkgICAgIkJpbGwiLApA QCAtMTE0LDUgKzExNywxNCBAQAogCiAJZm9yIChpID0gMDsgaSA8IE1BWF9OVU1CRVJfT0ZfUExB WUVSUzsgKytpKSB7Ci0JCXBsYXllcnNbaV0ubmFtZSA9IF8oRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW2ld KTsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBpZiAoRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW2ldID09IE5VTEwpIHsK KyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGNoYXIgKnJlYWxuYW1lOworCisgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICByZWFsbmFtZSA9IGdfc3RyZHVwIChnX2dldF9yZWFsX25hbWUgKCkpOworICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgZ19zdHJkZWxpbWl0IChyZWFsbmFtZSwgIiAiLCAnXDAnKTsK KyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIAorICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgcGxheWVy c1tpXS5uYW1lID0gcmVhbG5hbWU7CisgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgfSBlbHNlIHsKKyAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHBsYXllcnNbaV0ubmFtZSA9IF8oRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW2ld KTsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB9CiAJCXBsYXllcnNbaV0uY29tcCA9IDE7CiAgICAgICAgIH0K ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489-- From http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2002-April/msg00226.html > Proposed Changes to [aptly renamed] "Start Here": > > 6 Folders (listed alphabetically) ... > Startup > The end of the session manager! Well, not really. Any thing the user > places here (preferably as links and .desktop files) would opened > (or run) when the user logs in. This requires the most new work > of these folders as it involves the session manager. It might > be implemented by passing the --sm-disable argument to programs > run from it and placing in the default gnome-session something to > open the things in the startup folder. ... Cheers, Greg Merchan From iaingnome@gmail.com Fri Jun 2 19:59:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869683B047B for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32453-07 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.171]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C303B0B7F for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so671871uge for ; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=H1Ne4pKCRfVg5XCcNJOijkcp7kgP1jOGUnyBKNo10St1vW+TR/MaRL7mfp1YpYzR1ww/NPnbYtsozd5iHD4rZARvJpfeKJTDMoj1OiZ82HIA7f1V2ALUOqt8hjbt5qmawaaJxKaaz7JPIkDezWuiAq/zP6/mFLIkg2if+G0X7z0= Received: by 10.67.89.6 with SMTP id r6mr1253688ugl; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.245.8 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 00:59:23 +0100 From: "Iain *" To: "Desktop Development List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.888 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077, TW_RG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -0.888 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 23:59:26 -0000 ------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hi Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a maintainer these days? First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use this new system The patch is here: http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch and is also attached. lots of love iain ------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name=gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_enz77jd7 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch" SW5kZXg6IENoYW5nZUxvZwo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09ClJDUyBmaWxlOiAvY3ZzL2dub21lL2dub21lLXRl cm1pbmFsL0NoYW5nZUxvZyx2CnJldHJpZXZpbmcgcmV2aXNpb24gMS41NTUKZGlmZiAtVTIgLXIx LjU1NSBDaGFuZ2VMb2cKLS0tIENoYW5nZUxvZwkxNyBNYXkgMjAwNiAyMjoxMDowNCAtMDAwMAkx LjU1NQorKysgQ2hhbmdlTG9nCTIgSnVuIDIwMDYgMjM6MTk6MjIgLTAwMDAKQEAgLTEsMiArMSwx MiBAQAorMjAwNi0wNi0wMiAgSWFpbiBIb2xtZXMgIDxpYWluQGdub21lLm9yZz4KKworCSogc3Jj 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------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065-- From lucasr.at.mundo@gmail.com Sat Jun 3 06:15:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D02B3B04F5 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28056-04 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 326E13B0622 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so758994uge for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=be0ykkhnR+WInlr9zJKJ3Eg2z7QkHBPz/mS2UJdtwVZO5Za3jb8unUjjkVfETZAFRWc39WiZRaWUuPoblhjjhvWzgk517bpMwWIUwugErS7qPPHUitDvugxhhvQjbrj0ByMDtIeDvOj5b4ClEA+rvsnZIwwpbWAJiAWEZKN3rJk= Received: by 10.67.97.7 with SMTP id z7mr1557650ugl; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.32.17 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31a62e6f0606030315i5794061fx3afda4bd5a1d3599@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 07:15:02 -0300 From: "Lucas Rocha" To: "Desktop Development List" In-Reply-To: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.254 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.346, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.254 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 10:15:10 -0000 Hi Iain, AFAIK (and acoording to the MAINTAINERS file), gnome-terminal is maintained by Guilherme Pastore (aka fatalerror). I suggest you to file a bug and try to meet him on IRC. Behdad has been doing some stuff on this module too. p eace --lucasr 2006/6/2, Iain * : > hi > > Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a > maintainer these days? > > First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked > fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that > stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. > > Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program > instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus > pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use > this new system > > The patch is here: > http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch > and is also attached. > > lots of love > iain > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > > > From kalle.vahlman@gmail.com Sat Jun 3 11:21:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042763B067E for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11829-06 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210563B06CA for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so807287uge for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RsVv8gkP8m9sF8YRGPObFNgPMrFZhMxg2dj1ZuUMrD/5o3bHyLSTTVDdZvcK3l+E2oHXnO9ff2Wi4ktD4/8E4YcMxVkQUaO61hgwEWINDBbCHofhSfsE8DhkXjEtpiaL2S8cJXm+bDOAm+8d2uauZESHawvURG0Ft0YGVX8pnT8= Received: by 10.67.103.7 with SMTP id f7mr1758517ugm; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.16.10 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <177e83dd0606030821n5c774ad3p127dd3a6675e82e1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 18:21:27 +0300 From: "Kalle Vahlman" To: "Iain *" In-Reply-To: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.49 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.448, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.49 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Desktop Development List Subject: Re: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: zuh@iki.fi List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:21:32 -0000 2006/6/3, Iain * : > hi > > Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a > maintainer these days? > > First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked > fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that > stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. > > Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program > instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus > pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use > this new system Very cool. Seems to launch way faster than bonobo version too after a quick test :) (though that might be 2.14.1 vs CVS too I guess) > The patch is here: > http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch > and is also attached. > > lots of love to > iain ;) -- Kalle Vahlman, zuh@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Sun Jun 4 15:26:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4B93B016C for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06133-05 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.192.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 002C43B02A5 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060604192622m1200nk46be>; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:26:23 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Gnome Desktop Development List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:26:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.641 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.332, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.641 X-Spam-Level: Subject: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 19:26:25 -0000 A common [fatal] error reported by a number of applications in the 2.15.x branch is: Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to open file '': No such file or directory GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed aborting... Questions: * Is there a simple work around? It is difficult to test 2.15.x with this error in place. * Any chance that this problem will be resolved any time soon? I have seen this problem in 2.15.0, 2.15.1, and 2.15.2. -Joseph -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From bjourne@gmail.com Sun Jun 4 16:21:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F543B01AC for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08773-06 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDA63B0101 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1042692wxd for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Hb49BjoqweARg0w5t1fwubOAcbRHt6rtJiiTAWtgSnZ3+F4OH33pOXhARWn3vwVWy6kqDi2iOKnFZPw2JKR3C8qvwy+eTYvI1Bzb+s1h+rA2KDJCI0VUUB+mCT9l7yayiKg8drLRqVlj8TiHujImfISlEdqio6Ue36336uFqRuQ= Received: by 10.70.49.6 with SMTP id w6mr5252855wxw; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.10 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 22:21:29 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.421 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_MV=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.421 X-Spam-Level: Subject: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 20:21:31 -0000 Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very much prefer svn instead of cvs. --=20 mvh Bj=F6rn Lindqvist From as583@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sun Jun 4 16:27:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99653B01AC for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09042-03 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.139]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5B63B016C for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from as583.emma.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.248.113]:34970) by ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.159]:587) with esmtpsa (PLAIN:as583) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1FmzBj-0002Xc-UQ (Exim 4.54) (return-path ); Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:27:07 +0100 Message-ID: <448341FB.80605@gnome.org> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:26:35 +0100 From: Andrew Sobala User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?= References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Andrew Sobala X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.509 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.064, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.509 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 20:27:14 -0000 BJörn Lindqvist wrote: > Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to > Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have > been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the > switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very > much prefer svn instead of cvs. Discussion happened on gnome-hackers; new date is 14th July. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2006-June -- Andrew From newren@gmail.com Sun Jun 4 19:03:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66DAD3B00D0 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17079-09 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058B23B0288 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1057642wxd for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=R7GruRgIZLPAkXceJSqXQP+VWzvqThkkwX1ScM7kmw6txaFHhFEDUh6fp+rn3fJbD3OMAOnM6VZg2F7S8zQoQhquZshi9t9n9+jYYDE3fF3bF4nmR8wXjRXQh2RN4yh37VhpDUzhpTZA3m8q5l8sf+E21p5FuEDO6fPqMOCRAvc= Received: by 10.70.117.16 with SMTP id p16mr5361597wxc; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.7 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 17:03:50 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" In-Reply-To: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 23:03:53 -0000 On 6/4/06, BJ=F6rn Lindqvist wrote: > Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to > Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have > been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the > switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very > much prefer svn instead of cvs. Looks like we failed somewhere to get the word out about devel-announce-list widely enough. It's a very low volume list meant for important announcements. Granted, as aes mentioned, the general discussion happened on gnome-hackers but for those who'd prefer to just get the big announcements, the postponement[1] and new date[2] of the SVN migration were both announced to devel-announce-list. [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-March/msg00003.= html [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-May/msg00004.ht= ml From bjourne@gmail.com Mon Jun 5 05:52:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1BB3B00CE for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20033-02 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C378C3B031D for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1128508wxd for ; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=VMrV0zJYnZc0fD1VxiFU6iO0HMwOvUJii7CeNIne4sN/1ca5a5eoNh7bFx9Z9ad8xJbjVO+NDr5x2X/KgqpPy2/+pgcWkzKWJESg+2cqYe7VN2Po3B9AQ2FjyxKxudGZSGX3JmBq/AYm2grwUUdOPY1cV9xw77N9zClfsOn0AR4= Received: by 10.70.49.6 with SMTP id w6mr5849501wxw; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.10 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 02:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <740c3aec0606050252h780f6f63nb417e174eab1882f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:52:42 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 09:52:47 -0000 > Looks like we failed somewhere to get the word out about > devel-announce-list widely enough. It's a very low volume list meant > for important announcements. Granted, as aes mentioned, the general > discussion happened on gnome-hackers but for those who'd prefer to > just get the big announcements, the postponement[1] and new date[2] of > the SVN migration were both announced to devel-announce-list. > > [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-March/msg0000= 3.html > [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-May/msg00004.= html Then I'm very sorry to have been bothering the wrong list unnecessary. /me goes and subscribes to yet another mailing list The new Subversion migration date is fantastic news though. --=20 mvh Bj=F6rn From William.Walker@Sun.COM Tue Jun 6 10:21:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A26B3B0182 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28117-01 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C373B0A96 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k56ELg6m000827 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0F00501ZP9UE00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.11] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0F002B2ZW4FRQ0@mail-amer.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:21:38 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-id: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.586 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.586 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:21:48 -0000 Hi All: We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would like to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal to include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the missing features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also done a fair amount of stability and testing work. We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of Gnopernicus: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to address the issues that arise. Thanks! Will (Orca project lead) From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 6 21:02:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198963B02E8 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01166-08 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.206]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD9E3B0119 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so95533wxd for ; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=uMjiD2UneBstxGvHvDUjCg20B/AKOA7TrAPOlIojwLeWRAYoc8aPUZKa86K9RbBmkohVgwdRxv0WpgmxKGK/wNrfrNiB5s59ipLN64fkMZtn1R93/tdqgaWAKEH0mEqq5FOAXfvdnCNTH04zG4woQnpwJUJEFV6sGQHcZuJp1GI= Received: by 10.70.33.8 with SMTP id g8mr307306wxg; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.7 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606061802o2e6a876br82818f1864d6f50c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:02:22 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Willie Walker" In-Reply-To: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.572 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.572 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:02:26 -0000 On 6/6/06, Willie Walker wrote: > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > Gnopernicus: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html That email pretty much looks like the clincher to me; it looks to me like it resolves the only big issue I remember anyone bringing up. > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > address the issues that arise. Thanks for your awesome work. We've kind of sucked at getting the proposed modules all listed. Could you go to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Desktop and add orca (and, if you have time, the other proposed modules)? We should start getting those into the modulesets going out with releases and doing a better job of verifying the build and so forth (though I'm betting GARNOME is ahead in the game and has them included, which would be cool). As per the schedule at http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen, the "Module inclusion discussion heats up" on the week of July 12th. I can't imagine why orca wouldn't make it at this point, as it looks like you've already addressed any potential issues that could come up. But if you want to be on the safe side, just watch your d-d-l email that week and if any additional issues about orca are brought up you can address them. Hope that helps, Elijah From fcrozat@mandriva.com Wed Jun 7 11:02:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0503B0272 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22929-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office.mandriva.com (ezoffice.mandriva.com [84.14.106.134]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D433C3B0127 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trinidad.mandrakesoft.com (trinidad.mandrakesoft.com [192.168.100.216]) by office.mandriva.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4FA531 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:02:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Frederic Crozat To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Mandriva Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:02:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3-10mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:02:44 -0000 Le dimanche 04 juin 2006 à 15:26 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. a écrit : > A common [fatal] error reported by a number of applications in the > 2.15.x branch is: > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > open file '': No such file or directory > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > (object)' failed > aborting... > > Questions: > > * Is there a simple work around? > It is difficult to test 2.15.x with this error in place. > > * Any chance that this problem will be resolved any time soon? > I have seen this problem in 2.15.0, 2.15.1, and 2.15.2. You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 -- Frederic Crozat Mandriva From federico@ximian.com Wed Jun 7 12:58:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348273B0461 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31312-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B5A3B04FC for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17019 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2006 16:58:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO 164-99-120-35.boston.ximian.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2006 16:58:49 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: Frederic Crozat In-Reply-To: <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 11:54:38 -0500 Message-Id: <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:58:53 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > (object)' failed > > aborting... > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when builddir == srcdir. Federico From fcrozat@mandriva.com Wed Jun 7 13:03:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857CE3B0502 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31466-08 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office.mandriva.com (ezoffice.mandriva.com [84.14.106.134]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039683B02D9 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trinidad.mandrakesoft.com (trinidad.mandrakesoft.com [192.168.100.216]) by office.mandriva.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCABD531 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 19:03:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Frederic Crozat To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Mandriva Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:03:31 +0200 Message-Id: <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3-10mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.57 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:03:35 -0000 Le mercredi 07 juin 2006 à 11:54 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero a écrit : > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > > (object)' failed > > > aborting... > > > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 > > It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when > builddir == srcdir. Easy workaround : rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h and rebuild : tarball was shipped with an incomplete gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h file. -- Frederic Crozat Mandriva From Matt.Keenan@Sun.COM Wed Jun 7 13:26:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FB33B047D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00550-01 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F703B006D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k57HQTEv011828 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:26:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J0I00H0130ZXK@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Matt.Keenan@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:26:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.150.120.79] (vpn-129-150-120-79.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.120.79]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0J0I00AG1344JB@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:26:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:26:27 +0100 From: Matt Keenan To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-id: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060119) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:26:32 -0000 Hi, What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME community ? Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is this something that people see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better solution ? As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the moment we really would like to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the preferred format is a necessity. Cheers Matt From ross@burtonini.com Wed Jun 7 13:43:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690793B045D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01751-03 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B766B3B02BA for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from burtonini.com (althur.gotadsl.co.uk [84.12.135.175]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B06EA33500E; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:37:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (ident=unknown) by burtonini.com with esmtp (masqmail 0.2.21) id 1Fo1yK-86I-00; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:37:36 +0100 From: Ross Burton To: Matt Keenan In-Reply-To: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> References: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d" Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:37:35 +0100 Message-Id: <1149701855.8920.49.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:43:03 -0000 --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 19:26 +0100, Matt Keenan wrote: > Hi, >=20 > What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME communit= y ? >=20 > Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is=20 > this something that people > see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better=20 > solution ? >=20 > As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the=20 > moment we really would like > to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the=20 > preferred format is a > necessity. I'd say that Docbook would make a good master source, as the user guide is also written in docbook. Ross --=20 Ross Burton mail: ross@burtonini.com jabber: ross@burtonini.com www: http://www.burtonini.com./ PGP Fingerprint: 1A21 F5B0 D8D0 CFE3 81D4 E25A 2D09 E447 D0B4 33DF --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBEhw7fLQnkR9C0M98RAlH3AJ9SQGc/4xzkv/EMKc5nfQ4m9N0eawCgxL6G y/1LhGBSG7RTJhB6hFhSdBQ= =tJHS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d-- From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Wed Jun 7 14:05:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F2D3B0DCF for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03337-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B5743B0E23 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060607180513m1200pab1je>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:05:13 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:05:12 -0400 Message-Id: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.645 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.336, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.645 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:05:22 -0000 I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h * build * install The bad news is I still see the error. -Joseph =========================================================================== On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 19:03 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > Le mercredi 07 juin 2006 à 11:54 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero a écrit : > > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > > > (object)' failed > > > > aborting... > > > > > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > > > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 > > > > It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when > > builddir == srcdir. > > Easy workaround : rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h and rebuild : tarball was > shipped with an incomplete gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h file. > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From federico@ximian.com Wed Jun 7 14:42:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CB43B069F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05780-02 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178E63B0DB6 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17247 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2006 18:42:01 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO 164-99-120-35.boston.ximian.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2006 18:42:01 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:37:51 -0500 Message-Id: <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.536 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_XV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.536 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:42:04 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: > > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > * build > * install > > The bad news is I still see the error. You may need to 1. tar xvf gtk.tar.gz 2. configure; make 3. rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h 4. make 5. make install I.e. let it build, then remove the header file, then build again. Federico From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Wed Jun 7 14:47:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8E73B0E0B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06186-03 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (unknown [216.148.227.155]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4878F3B0E45 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20060607184711m15001vu4je>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:47:12 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Federico Mena Quintero In-Reply-To: <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:47:10 -0400 Message-Id: <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.608 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.376, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, TW_XV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -0.608 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:47:14 -0000 I have a sense of humor. I will give that a try. For what it's worth... Fedora/rawhide [PPC: updated daily] does not have this problem. I have expended a number of cycles examining their src RPMs, looking for the magic patch that has not yet made it upstream. Didn't find a thing. -Joseph ================================================================== On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 13:37 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: > > > > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > > * build > > * install > > > > The bad news is I still see the error. > > You may need to > > 1. tar xvf gtk.tar.gz > 2. configure; make > 3. rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > 4. make > 5. make install > > I.e. let it build, then remove the header file, then build again. > > Federico > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From j@bitron.ch Wed Jun 7 14:51:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F443B069F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06395-02 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpanel02.rubas.net (cpanel02.rubas.net [62.216.182.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9B63B050C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 80-219-211-5.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.219.211.5] helo=[192.168.1.33]) by cpanel02.rubas.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fo37q-0007ap-TH; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:51:31 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrg?= Billeter To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:52:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel02.rubas.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - bitron.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.524 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.524 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:51:48 -0000 On Mit, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: >=20 > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > * build > * install >=20 > The bad news is I still see the error.=20 Should be fixed in CVS http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/Makefile.am?r1=3D1.309&r2=3D1.310 The patch applies to Makefile.in in the 2.9.2 tarball, too. J=C3=BCrg From matthias.clasen@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 16:30:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E6A3B00C7 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12519-04 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.204]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320F03B015D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 8so229327nzo for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:30:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=LYjL12EdChuw+lZQqGKA1cluImN0sNHjc01h7M8DGB+xDSg+wAumrDC8qg7n22LA/lC/uigEi4+t5IqDUuFSmksedxwnbaDjdRgoGguMEAsbS5PB9A6xS/kmGa5JyyVHxmWZXO5FxfTVWGLv4KceoGK0Z1/cNSLdk/Ro9eJn08U= Received: by 10.37.2.14 with SMTP id e14mr1202727nzi; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.14 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:23:57 -0400 From: "Matthias Clasen" To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.508 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.092, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.508 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Federico Mena Quintero , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:30:17 -0000 On 6/7/06, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I have a sense of humor. I will give that a try. > > For what it's worth... Fedora/rawhide [PPC: updated daily] does not have > this problem. I have expended a number of cycles examining their src > RPMs, looking for the magic patch that has not yet made it upstream. > Didn't find a thing. > I didn't fix it in 2.9.2-3, I worked around it by dumping in a correct gtkbuiltincache.h after unpacking the tarball (look for SOURCE2) Matthias From matthias.clasen@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 17:43:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF013B062C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17008-09 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820093B0CA4 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so306896nzo for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=d+WFIAUU5OYshLt/IV/hRwTCOUzbrliGiCWI9t7E5m8mUfO5PB8UcfRVB6ZzKpXTvLIWf1aPeQ2SRftAAEeAodIgYJj6gy3hqZrARMmMa4m9m/dEEg0HMuHwnt1d4ue6VI+jhy4eMqhjRBqUklfQl2VSUy8zwfpgpm7JME0IY+o= Received: by 10.36.121.19 with SMTP id t19mr1310096nzc; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.14 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:07 -0400 From: "Matthias Clasen" To: "Matt Keenan" In-Reply-To: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.47 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.47 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 21:43:11 -0000 On 6/7/06, Matt Keenan wrote: > Hi, > > What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME community ? > > Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is > this something that people > see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better > solution ? > > As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the > moment we really would like > to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the > preferred format is a > necessity. > The few man pages that are shipped with the glib and gtk api docs are in docbook now, which has the advantage that we can easily include them in the api docs, too. Matthias From federico@ximian.com Thu Jun 8 21:30:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACED93B04DB for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18212-01 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043353B0E3D for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19069 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2006 01:30:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?164.99.120.169?) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Jun 2006 01:30:03 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrg?= Billeter In-Reply-To: <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 20:25:50 -0500 Message-Id: <1149816350.30645.108.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 01:30:09 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 20:52 +0200, Jürg Billeter wrote: > Should be fixed in CVS > > http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/Makefile.am?r1=1.309&r2=1.310 Excellent catch, like swatting flies with a whip. Thanks for the fix :) Federico From frandavid100@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 09:51:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61263B0423 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18107-06 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214C53B0229 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so301601uge for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=MDFIZQJpAQibpDfJtY5XAuqiQNe2+Fhc5gvr2qEhTEJuP+sClW+mqb7679oTHoDc00/RZxajkdJTWDwv8wW6EiY+Yjzlcq+PjsOsXMSMxaclaW/V9ZnuTDcAG7wX6lKocTAaZhXBLV0E6kkOOnsnBnKcG3rgLWAm8SY1pGymIgQ= Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id u9mr530800ugg; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.103? ( [84.123.96.251]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id q40sm998482ugc.2006.06.07.06.51.49; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:49 -0700 (PDT) From: David Prieto To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:47 +0200 Message-Id: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 06:37:00 -0400 Subject: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:51:54 -0000 Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it goes: First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run these programs together. As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, internet, epiphany. It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea (middle-click), epiphany. What do you think about it? Here's the original post: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/48788 From johan@svedberg.com Fri Jun 9 06:54:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC263B0121 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16742-01 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.acc.umu.se (mail.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.156]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9A33B0004 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF6652 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from suiko.acc.umu.se (suiko.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.162]) by mail.acc.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C3327 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: by suiko.acc.umu.se (Postfix, from userid 24225) id A174C803; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 From: Johan Svedberg To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at acc.umu.se X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:54:38 -0000 * Jun 09 12:37 David Prieto : > Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it > goes: > > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my > e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run > these programs together. > > As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, > internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, > internet, epiphany. > > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? You could ofcourse create desktop shortcuts or panel launchers for the applications you use most frequently. But I like the idea, another alternative might be to add a "Run application" in the right-click menu. -- Johan Svedberg, johan@svedberg.com, http://johan.svedberg.com/ From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Fri Jun 9 06:54:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05FBD3B1041 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16715-02 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B24F3B0121 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-05.sun.com (d1-emea-05.sun.com [192.18.2.115] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k59Asee9009449 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:54:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-05.sun.com by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0L00K019O99Q00@d1-emea-05.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from dhcp-226-200.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.226.200]) by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0L00J4MAB3EQ10@d1-emea-05.sun.com>; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:35 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: David Prieto Message-id: <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Organization: Sun Microsystems Ireland Ltd. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.583 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.583 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:54:46 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51 +0200, David Prieto wrote: > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse button, as not everyone has one. In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are always run when you log in? Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From jan@jgc.homeip.net Fri Jun 9 07:52:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94903B1073 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20462-09 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.fastline.no (mx2.fastline.no [82.134.2.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698923B01A7 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) X-SMTP-Auth: no Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.fastline.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1B6A00041F for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx2.fastline.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx2.fastline.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 10287-01-2 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xciton-pc2 (a80-126-167-165.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.126.167.165]) by mx2.fastline.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0ECBA000409 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Jan de Groot To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:52:29 +0200 Message-Id: <1149853949.4427.0.camel@xciton-pc2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.3.2 (20050629) (Debian) at mx2.fastline.no X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.578 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.578 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:52:28 -0000 On Fri, 2006-06-09 at 12:54 +0200, Johan Svedberg wrote: > You could ofcourse create desktop shortcuts or panel launchers for the > applications you use most frequently. But I like the idea, another > alternative might be to add a "Run application" in the right-click > menu. That, together with the middle click, just like the "open link in new tab" feature in most browsers. From ktirf@users.sf.net Fri Jun 9 09:30:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1DD63B031E for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27240-08 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from delta.deserv.net (delta.deserv.net [83.102.151.66]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A0293B0003 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.119.253.205] (helo=[10.232.104.122]) by delta.deserv.net with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Foh4a-0003JR-0k for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:30:48 +0400 Message-ID: <448977EC.3040905@users.sf.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:30:20 +0400 From: Alexey Rusakov User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-Id: ktirf@nale.ru X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.503 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.503 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:30:30 -0000 Calum Benson wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51 +0200, David Prieto wrote: > > >> It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch >> the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click >> applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea >> (middle-click), epiphany. >> >> What do you think about it? >> > > I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you > shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse > button, as not everyone has one. > What about Ctrl-LeftClick and Ctrl-Enter as alternatives? Anyway, ... > In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit > better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding > three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all > three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are > always run when you log in? > ... this is a good question :) -- Alexey "Ktirf" Rusakov From xavier.bestel@free.fr Fri Jun 9 11:52:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BFFF3B024A for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03877-05 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp13.wanadoo.fr (smtp13.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E543B026D for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from awak.dyndns.org (AGrenoble-152-1-21-70.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr [82.122.20.70]) by mwinf1304.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1F9B6700008B for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:52:32 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060609155232129.1F9B6700008B@mwinf1304.orange.fr Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=capoeira ident=stunnel4) by awak.dyndns.org with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1FojIE-0000uL-00; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:53:02 +0200 From: Xavier Bestel To: David Prieto In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:52:28 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.283 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.283 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 15:52:35 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51, David Prieto wrote: [...] > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your multiselections. Not that I advise using several mouse buttons at once. Xav From mpt@myrealbox.com Fri Jun 9 13:28:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1EA3B0268 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09915-07 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leucothea.redline.site5.com (leucothea.redline.site5.com [216.118.97.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827E73B011B for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ool-44c0bc13.dyn.optonline.net ([68.192.188.19] helo=[192.168.0.5]) by leucothea.redline.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fokm3-000296-RA; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:27:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <2873c7c3e7a66e8562d38938161412e1@myrealbox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Matthew Paul Thomas Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:26:46 -0400 To: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV. X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - leucothea.redline.site5.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - myrealbox.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:28:03 -0000 On Jun 7, 2006, at 9:51 AM, David Prieto wrote: > ... > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read > my e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually > run these programs together. You can set these programs to run automatically when you log in, using the "Startup Programs" tab of the "Sessions" preferences. (This could be much more obvious than it is, for example by giving the control panel a name better than "Sessions".) You can also add the programs to the panel at the top/bottom of the screen by clicking on an empty part of it (if there is one) with the right mouse button (if you have one) and choosing "Add to Panel...". (Again, this could be much more obvious than it is. For example, it should show up when you search the help for "how can I start programs quickly".) -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ From frandavid100@gmail.com Fri Jun 9 15:04:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74B83B00E9 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14795-04 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF323B009F for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so598739nfe for ; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=TDtsoF1S0IXExUOckOSPJ6L4SnxSBbw786CXC1ndr+VxKZgYeje5qx7P11UN3LkGDhYHCfV80q30mhUWDoV3egDP2esip+uQBLnrkcBHjtfwFaTgR/FrNj292b5eejPlWanVL+zj76zZQv61da7Nof8Kkt3xt0+Bxr8klD22wWQ= Received: by 10.48.238.9 with SMTP id l9mr2640423nfh; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.103? ( [84.123.96.251]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id l21sm1702180nfc.2006.06.09.12.04.43; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: David Prieto To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 21:03:36 +0200 Message-Id: <1149879816.5224.2.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 19:04:47 -0000 I'm sorry, I replied to Calum instead of sending my mail to the list: _____________________________________________________________________ > I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you > shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse > button, as not everyone has one. Well, in Nautilus for example you can open a folder while closing its folder if you double-click on it with your middle button OR if you double-shift+left-click. Why not do the same here? Users without a middle button could just use shift+left-click as a replacement. > In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit > better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding > three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all > three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are > always run when you log in? Well, those are quite subjective reasons but I don't like launchers on the panel, aesthetically. Besides, I use only one panel and space is scarce on it. Creating a launcher for all three programs would not be very useful since I could want to launch just two of them (epi could be already open), or I could want to launch amule too. It's just not flexible. About setting them to launch when logging in, I already said it in my first message: I could just be somewhere else and yet be logged in, maybe because amule is running. Then I could get to the computer and want to read the forums, get my mails... you get the point. I know my reasons could be minor for some, but well, they're good for me. From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Sun Jun 11 05:05:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580113B00DC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30987-09 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DC093B0092 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.11] helo=salmon.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 11 Jun 2006 10:03:54 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:03:53 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: David Prieto In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.592 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.592 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:05:07 -0000 On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, David Prieto wrote: > Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:47 +0200 > From: David Prieto > To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Subject: opening a program with the middle button > > Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it > goes: > > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my > e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run > these programs together. > > As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, > internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, > internet, epiphany. > > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? Mozilla allows you to bookmark groups and open several pages at once. Perhaps we need a way to create a launcher which launches more than one program? (I guess you could do that using a script.) Alternatively you could either set those programs to automatically start every session, or more easily save your session on logout so it comes back up the same when you login. I've done similar things this way in the past. -- Alan H. From sri@aracnet.com Sun Jun 11 11:44:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251F43B0125 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16813-02 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B6B3B008B for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-21-239-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.239.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5BFgSHT018681; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:42:29 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Willie Walker In-Reply-To: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:41:41 -0700 Message-Id: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.339 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.049, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.339 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sri@aracnet.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:44:49 -0000 So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? sri [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it seems kind of early to me. On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:21 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > Hi All: > > We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would like > to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal to > include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the missing > features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also done a > fair amount of stability and testing work. > > We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on > orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html > > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > Gnopernicus: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html > > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > address the issues that arise. > > Thanks! > > Will > (Orca project lead) > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Sri Ramkrishna From sri@aracnet.com Sun Jun 11 11:49:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001E13B00E0 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16636-10 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ruby.spiritone.com (ruby.spiritone.com [216.99.193.130]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759C03B0084 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-21-239-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.239.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by ruby.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5BFlwTA018262; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:47:59 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:47:11 -0700 Message-Id: <1150040831.16558.6.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.407 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.116, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.407 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sri@aracnet.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:49:30 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 10:03 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > > What do you think about it? > > Mozilla allows you to bookmark groups and open several pages at once. > Perhaps we need a way to create a launcher which launches more than one > program? (I guess you could do that using a script.) Anything that would require programming would not be very user friendly. I wonder if something like "launcher group" or something where you can create a launcher that runs many programs in sequence with the option of having each application start depending on whether the last application actually ran. The value is still somewhat questionable in creating such a thing. I'm not sure if many people would use such a thing. Sometimes I wish we could add such features via plugin for some enterprising 3rd party to write. sri -- Sri Ramkrishna From shaunm@gnome.org Sun Jun 11 14:15:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA23D3B01A2 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27106-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.wolfram.com (webmail.wolfram.com [140.177.205.37]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F493B0195 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from recto.housenet.network (DHCP-74-136-213-67.insightbb.com [74.136.213.67] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by webmail.wolfram.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5BIDn5t008851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:13:50 -0500 From: Shaun McCance To: sri@aracnet.com In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:13:42 -0500 Message-Id: <1150049622.16073.14.camel@recto.housenet.network> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.106, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 18:15:20 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 08:41 -0700, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > sri > > > [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it > seems kind of early to me. The mail from Thomas Friehoff at Baum[1] is pretty much a clincher. If the Gnopernicus team is behind Orca, and favors Orca being Gnopernicus's successor, then it really isn't a question of "if", only "when". What we need to think about now is the migration path for our users. Many users have vested time and resources into making Gnopernicus work for them, so unless we can have a completely seamless forced transation (a difficult thing to do), we are going to see users using Gnopernicus for some time. So we do need to consider how we're going to accomodate those users as we shift stuff over to Orca. This means thinking about our accessibility control panels, how we present our accessibility tools to the users, and how we're documenting our accessibility stack. Perhaps an IRC meeting could be set up among the Orca developers, the Gnopernicus developers, and a couple of user interface and documentation people. Hash out a plan, report it back to the community, and make it happen. I'm excited. Are you excited? I'm excited. Let's make good things happen. -- Shaun [1] This one: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:21 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > > Hi All: > > > > We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would > like > > to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal > to > > include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the > missing > > features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also > done a > > fair amount of stability and testing work. > > > > We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on > > orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html > > > > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > > Gnopernicus: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > > > as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html > > > > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to > the > > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is > still a > > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to > adoption > > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > > address the issues that arise. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Will > > (Orca project lead) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > desktop-devel-list mailing list > > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > -- > Sri Ramkrishna > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From danilo@gnome.org Sun Jun 11 15:27:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 323E13B01BF for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30006-01 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from avet.kvota.net (unknown [147.91.15.40]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A100D3B00F7 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by avet.kvota.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 882887C2A4; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:06:24 +0200 (CEST) To: sri@aracnet.com References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> From: danilo@gnome.org (=?utf-8?q?Danilo_=C5=A0egan?=) Mail-Followup-To: sri@aracnet.com, Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:06:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> (Sri Ramkrishna's message of "Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:41:41 -0700") Message-ID: <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:27:37 -0000 Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. Who are we to argue them? ;) Cheers, Danilo From newren@gmail.com Sun Jun 11 19:06:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC5C3B0253 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07553-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.195]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B4103B01CC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so906381wxd for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=fiCZ1GWCGSwxPYc+Wf7HtEdlTKk8eW/Ob7qlq52akIeZ/Ni6ap/5Ds64jor+Jdc7/Jl8P7zXudzyaVaCjbTRTEk2s1QnbwKDPSsO0Zk+94ETijxhEa2rverDJCpnloHBkRMhENFP5zm6Cb/PAiy+//TcZTXdMVuHzvte1bmEf/g= Received: by 10.70.62.1 with SMTP id k1mr5817701wxa; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.89.16 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 17:05:43 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: sri@aracnet.com In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.465 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_JH=0.077, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.465 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:06:46 -0000 On 6/11/06, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? I did respond[2] but I think your email points out some potential confusion in the community worth addressing. > [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it > seems kind of early to me. Actually, (application) module proposal time has come and passed. We're now in the extended module evaluation period. In past releases, the proposal deadline and module freeze were so close together that we weren't ever even close to actually meeting the module freeze deadline. The decision would always come like a month afterwards when we were deep into freezes. So, we changed things this time around[3]. As per the release schedule[4], new application modules needed to have been proposed by April 24th; we have a longer module evaluation period, module discussion will heat up on July 10th to discuss any lingering issues, the release team meets the following week with the community input, and module choice is frozen July 24th. I believe all the modules that have been proposed have been added to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Desktop and http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Bindings. If anyone spots a missing module, please add it. Also, it'd be great if everyone could build and test the proposed modules[5]. Thanks, Elijah [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-June/msg00009.html [3] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-April/msg00000.html [4] http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen [5] Along those lines, I updated the meta-gnome-proposed module in jhbuild just this last week to assist with that. However, it's missing gtk-sharp and tomboy, which should probably be fixed somehow. It's similar to the missing gtk2-perl and gtk-java issue, which I also don't know quite how to solve. I'm pretty sure there's a bug I filed somewhere with some advice from James that I said I'd follow up on but which I never got around to. From murrayc@murrayc.com Mon Jun 12 02:39:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC333B015B for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22320-05 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com (webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com [66.33.201.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA1A3B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.murrayc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5C02C21B; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 194.138.18.132 (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user murrayc@murrayc.com) by webmail.murrayc.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:38:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> In-Reply-To: <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:38:41 +0200 (CEST) From: "Murray Cumming" To: sri@aracnet.com, "Willie Walker" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.52 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.52 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 06:39:40 -0000 > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of confusion. Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? > Who are we to argue them? ;) Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 05:43:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE3203B00A6 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28785-07 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FCE13B00E6 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5C9hNTO024786 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 03:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J0Q00F01QZPDT@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:43:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-176.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.176]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J0Q002ILR0ARL@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:43:22 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:44:30 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, gnome-18n-list@gnome.org Message-id: <1150105469.7019.1.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: ATK and AT-SPI branched for gnome-2-14 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:43:59 -0000 Hi: ATK and AT-SPI have branched for gnome-2.14. New stuff is on HEAD, stable development should use the 2-14 branch. I haven't made a new release since the branch yet, perhaps today (AT-SPI HEAD depends, for the moment, on ATK HEAD). regards Bill From sbrabec@suse.cz Mon Jun 12 05:51:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944163B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28662-09 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.suse.cz (styx.suse.cz [82.119.242.94]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9660E3B000D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hammer.suse.cz (hammer.suse.cz [10.20.1.86]) by mail.suse.cz (SUSE CR ESMTP Mailer) with ESMTP id 3AD7062805F; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Stanislav Brabec To: Xavier Bestel In-Reply-To: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: SuSE CR, s. r. o. Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:06 +0200 Message-Id: <1150105806.13727.15.camel@hammer.suse.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:51:09 -0000 Xavier Bestel wrote: > Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: > right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the > right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your multiselections. > > Not that I advise using several mouse buttons at once. It was a nice feature allowing to do more actions in the menu during one rolling down. And a nice Amiga Multiselect utility also enabled multiple selections outside menu, in file lists, file managers etc. without using of Shift button: - Place mouse pointer over the first item you want to select - Press left button - Keep the left button pressed and press right button - Release left button, keeping right button pressed - Use left button clicking to add toggle items selection, keeping right button pressed - Release right button Both these features I often miss in GTK+. -- Best Regards / S pozdravem, Stanislav Brabec software developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SuSE CR, s. r. o. e-mail: sbrabec@suse.cz Drahobejlova 27 tel: +420 296 542 382 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 296 542 374 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 10:42:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D43A3B009D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06770-05 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0743B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-09.sun.com ([192.18.2.119]) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CDrF4H002463 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-09.sun.com by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00L012HDZ700@d1-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([129.150.117.3]) by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R0014U2KQRX50@d1-emea-09.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:10 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Xavier Bestel Message-id: <681C6D4D-8762-49C9-9187-3DCBF1B04022@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.582 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.016, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.582 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:42:37 -0000 On 9 Jun 2006, at 16:52, Xavier Bestel wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51, David Prieto wrote: > [...] >> It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch >> the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click >> applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea >> (middle-click), epiphany. > > Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: > right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the > right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your > multiselections. Yep, that was handy alright... in fact you can do that in GTK menus too, but only if you use the keyboard: Space will check the focused checkbox/radiobutton menu item and keep the menu open; Enter will check it and close the menu. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From jdub@waugh.id.au Mon Jun 12 14:13:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A90F3B0386 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23613-04 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710B83B07BD for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net [150.101.121.112]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C552C3C432 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:03 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3C4D940DB; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:00 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:00 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060612180600.GA22122@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-23-686 i686 Reply-By: Fri Jun 16 04:05:44 EST 2006 X-Uptime: 04:05:44 up 11 days, 3:57, 7 users, load average: 0.37, 0.18, 0.11 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:13:45 -0000 > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. See the background on a11y list. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Compassionate Conservative: I don't know what that is, sounds like a Volvo with a gun rack." - Robin Williams From DonScorgie@Blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jun 12 14:15:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843013B00FD for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23885-01 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D4D3B0738 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.143] (helo=anti-virus02-10) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Fpqro-0008HB-Vo for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:10:25 +0100 Received: from [82.41.205.39] (helo=[192.168.1.1]) by asmtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1Fpqrl-00080P-6Q for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:10:21 +0100 From: Don Scorgie To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:11:05 +0100 Message-Id: <1150135865.11844.7.camel@Madaline> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.517 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.517 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:15:33 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: > > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? The gnopernicus maintainers commented on the ocra list (linked to in this thread somewhere): http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Don > > > Who are we to argue them? ;) > > > Murray Cumming > murrayc@murrayc.com > www.murrayc.com > www.openismus.com > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From newren@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 15:08:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50EF53B0345 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26293-10 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B048A3B0343 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1028979wxd for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=TgVzJyw224nRJqXUuu+ThZrYi2XXmnlbm/MRSEN8qb2JI2E2qmGazGo/Wt994nfgnZRbDS6Lz76e+I4uqmsAya1REm1V9JJUjL1aj+jeskwwsoYUJvLb83onPB5WO5DLLgjqPXvsZ1w7ERN/+Cb5Id03ai+G3rD7i55tA+0ETcM= Received: by 10.70.14.5 with SMTP id 5mr3881692wxn; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.89.16 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606121207vad8be21t6b0782b3159c835b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:07:33 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Murray Cumming" In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:08:32 -0000 On 6/12/06, Murray Cumming wrote: > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html (Which Will linked to in this post: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-June/msg00008.html) From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 15:27:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 662903B00E5 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27322-03 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B2CA3B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-06.sun.com ([192.18.39.116]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CIohjx021697 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-06.sun.com by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00101FW17D00@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.26.228] by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R00CEDGCI6530@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:42 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: Murray Cumming Message-id: <448DB782.2070303@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:27:15 -0000 Hi Murray , >>> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we >>> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? >>> >> It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, >> especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. >> > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? > Please see this message from Thomas Friehoff, the VP of Engineering at BAUM, maintainers of Gnopernicus: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. From shaunm@gnome.org Mon Jun 12 16:04:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8775F3B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28570-06 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wolfram.com (mailhub.wolfram.com [140.177.10.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E573B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shaunmlx.wri.wolfram.com (shaunmlx.wri.wolfram.com [140.177.4.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by wolfram.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CK3UoC010479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:03:31 -0500 From: Shaun McCance To: Murray Cumming In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:03:30 -0500 Message-Id: <1150142610.22619.0.camel@shaunmlx> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:04:30 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: > > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? Right here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html -- Shaun From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 18:42:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909A03B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01759-06 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710533B00A5 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-05.sun.com (d1-emea-05.sun.com [192.18.2.115] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CMe23L023927 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-05.sun.com by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00H01LMM9J00@d1-emea-05.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([194.125.72.67]) by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R00DP3QYQQZ60@d1-emea-05.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:02 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:39:58 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Murray Cumming Message-id: <6516EFE3-F4F7-49C8-B0D9-B73C8C4E2DC7@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.56 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.56 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:42:34 -0000 On 12 Jun 2006, at 07:38, Murray Cumming wrote: > >> Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: >> >>> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). >>> Are we >>> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? >> >> It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, >> especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. Shaun posted the evidence earlier in the thread :) http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From gnome@nextreality.net Mon Jun 12 23:35:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088263B0009; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08673-05; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E478D3B0010; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 5FE5E35904; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:34:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id C501C35901; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 21:34:30 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: release-team@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list , GNOME Documentation , gnome-i18n@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500001, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_LR=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: bug buddy branched X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:35:51 -0000 Bug buddy has been branched. gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From andrew@operationaldynamics.com Tue Jun 13 01:51:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151553B0150 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12131-02 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay02.pair.com (relay02.pair.com [209.68.5.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B40DB3B0120 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13902 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2006 05:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO procyon) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 13 Jun 2006 05:43:56 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 150.101.122.233 From: Andrew Cowie To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Operational Dynamics Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:59:18 +1000 Message-Id: <1150174758.5806.4.camel@procyon.operationaldynamics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.144, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_BG=0.077, TW_GT=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: Subject: What up, java bindings? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:51:33 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 17:05 -0600, in a thread originally about "Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16", Elijah Newren wrote: > [5] Along those lines, ... > It's similar to the missing gtk2-perl and gtk-java issue, which I also > don't know quite how to solve. Oh? What's up? More to the point, what do you need us to do? Not that we have large team, but I'll do my best. ++ As an OT aside: our libraries are called glib-java, cairo-java, libgtk-java, libgnome-java, libglade-java, and libgconf-java being our release set at the moment, with libvte-java, and libeds-java joining this cycle. They're all on ftp.gnome.org. Quite the grab bag, with most following the libBLAH-java pattern, which was I believe at the request of the GNOME release team of the day when they multiplexed the previously straight forward "java-gtk" and "java-gnome" into the above mess. Before my time. A number have people have pointed out that naming like glade-java, along the lines of what the Mono boys and girls used (glade-sharp) would be nice. I agree, but at this point, given that the distros all adjusted their packages about 18 months ago when java-gnome shattered into its constituent pieces, that changing the naming pattern would be a large and painful change without that much benefit. [Not that I needed the scars to reinforce the obvious, but I was doing the Gentoo ebuilds then and it was quite a pain to shuffle and create that many new packages. I am quite conscious of the cost of change especially when it comes to package naming, etc. Given the enormous hassle it is to prepare up 6 headed for 8+ libraries every time we cut a java-gnome release, I'm not in a rush to add to my problems.] So, libBLAH-java it is... unless, as a part of a GNOME wide cleanup, we adopt a common naming scheme for bindings packages. If that's the case, then I'm sure the powers that be can align the stars to get package names changed in every distro simultaneously. Yup. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Technology strategy, managing change, establishing procedures, and executing successful upgrades to mission critical business infrastructure. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ Sydney New York Toronto London From danilo@gnome.org Tue Jun 13 05:17:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58993B008F for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17857-05 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from supa.sekjur.com (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7FE3B000A for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D81421F205; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown by localhost (amavisd-new, unix socket) id client-EFXCVfB9; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.121] (dhcp-87-116-155-154.marshall-bg.customer.sbb.co.yu [87.116.155.154]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2CAD21F1F3; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Danilo Segan To: Murray Cumming In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sekjur.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:17:28 -0000 У пон, 12. 06 2006. у 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming пише: > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. As pointed to in original e-mail: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html "We support the Orca team's proposal to make Orca the default screen reader / magnifier on the GNOME desktop in GNOME 2.16 - and for Orca to be the spiritual and logical successor to Gnopernicus." Perhaps I am trusting e-mail exchange too much? (Though, I don't think I am ;) > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? No, I didn't mean it like that. Though, if they didn't actually send the above message (we all know how easy it is to forge e-mail headers), they'd have certainly replied so far. Cheers, Danilo From William.Walker@Sun.COM Tue Jun 13 11:55:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468343B000C; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28918-08; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E903B00D9; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-02.sun.com ([192.18.108.176]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5DFsBuL025314; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0T00J012NLRP00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM); Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0T009D82UA4MV4@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:54:09 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Danilo Segan Message-id: <1150214050.5017.16.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: Cc: sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Murray Cumming Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:55:14 -0000 > No, I didn't mean it like that. Though, if they didn't actually send > the above message (we all know how easy it is to forge e-mail headers), > they'd have certainly replied so far. I can assure you that the message is indeed for real as we've had telephone conversations with Thomas and the Gnopernicus team regarding this transition. In addition, if it were fake, I can assure you that I would also let you know. Thanks! Will From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Tue Jun 13 16:27:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6215E3B03D8 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05552-08 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E17C3B03F0 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-06.sun.com ([192.18.108.180]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5DKQxAT005525 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0T00501EYOJY00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0T009Q0FGXLT93@mail-amer.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: GNOME Desktop Message-id: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.703 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.639] X-Spam-Score: -1.703 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 20:27:55 -0000 As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video plugins are currently in beta-test. http://shop.fluendo.com/ While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed to a per-use license). They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the desktop market. In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that represents such a small percentage of desktop users. Is this worth exploring? Brian From rbultje@ronald.bitfreak.net Wed Jun 14 15:47:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DF33B0112 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10759-04 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (unknown [24.29.109.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D623B01B6 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (cpe-66-65-0-167.nyc.res.rr.com [66.65.0.167]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5EJjjTm009201; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: "Ronald S. Bultje" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:43:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 (2.2.3-4.fc4) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:47:12 -0000 On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). [..] > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald From sri@aracnet.com Thu Jun 15 00:34:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CCB3B00CA for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11360-03 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [216.99.193.114]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC40D3B00B7 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [127.0.0.1]) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5F4XmTw009989; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:48 -0700 Received: (from sri@localhost) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k5F4XkZ5009987; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: "Ronald S. Bultje" Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 04:34:09 -0000 On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could license it. I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have probably heard it before. :-) sri From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Thu Jun 15 17:16:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995B83B00D0 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00998-06 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF1E3B006C for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5FLFCvC005262 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0X004016M4PP00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0X00AK171AVSV0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-reply-to: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: Sriram Ramkrishna Message-id: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.521 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.521 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:16:15 -0000 >>> Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a >>> license with the GNOME community >> >> Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Is there a more appropriate forum for discussing a topic like this? Apologies if my previous email was inappropriate. I certainly do not want to encourage the GNOME community to violate any important ideals. Obviously one ideal that it wouldn't violate is giving our end-users the best desktop experience possible. It seems a bit hard to really do this without finding and supporting creative ways to allow popular desktop IP to integrate with the desktop. But "allowing" IP to integrate doesn't mean that the GNOME community needs to support it financially, obviously. I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. I just wanted to mention the idea and see if there might be interest. From the responses, it seems like there isn't much. But that is fine since end users can go to the Fluendo store to purchase the plugins directly if they want them. > I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have > probably heard it before. :-) While I certainly understand it would be bad for the GNOME community to support non-free projects at the expense of free projects, I didn't think I was suggesting anything that would detract from free software. If enough users/companies are willing to pony up the money to pay for a license, then this isn't taking away from money earmarked for other free projects. In fact, the Foundation could reasonably insist that some extra money to fund free projects would be required for them to consider supporting a non-free project. Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely make free software more popular rather than less. Since the license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't work well. The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate with the desktop. Fluendo is already doing this, so to a degree the need is being met. Really the opportunity to work more closely together only makes it more affordable for everyone. Brian From thomas@apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 07:29:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFD53B0007 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27074-01 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.es6.egwn.net (server02.es6.egwn.net [195.10.6.12]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731023B000B for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net (server07.fr4.egwn.net [62.39.85.77]) by mx1.es6.egwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9EF4F82E3; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 5261F83C17; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server07.fr4.egwn.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16333-39; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thread.fluendo.lan (core.fluendo.com [195.10.6.237]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 46C3683C14; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thomas.fluendo.lan (thomas.fluendo.lan [192.168.1.10]) by thread.fluendo.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A96BFE8F; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:10 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Thomas Vander Stichele To: Sriram Ramkrishna In-Reply-To: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:08 +0200 Message-Id: <1150457348.23862.202.camel@otto.amantes> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: By amavis at egwn.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.683 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_SBL=3.16] X-Spam-Score: 0.683 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:29:46 -0000 Hi, > On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > > to a per-use license). > > [..] > > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > > license with the GNOME community > > > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Where is the start of this thread ? Nobody I've asked seems to have anything before Ronald's mail. Thomas From thomas@apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 10:31:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32B83B0076 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31386-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.es6.egwn.net (server02.es6.egwn.net [195.10.6.12]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163283B0011 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net (server07.fr4.egwn.net [62.39.85.77]) by mx1.es6.egwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E544F8353; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id AED6483C18; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server07.fr4.egwn.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18233-24; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thread.fluendo.lan (core.fluendo.com [195.10.6.237]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 9CCCD83C14; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thomas.fluendo.lan (thomas.fluendo.lan [192.168.1.10]) by thread.fluendo.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20788FE8F; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Thomas Vander Stichele To: "Ronald S. Bultje" In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:54 +0200 Message-Id: <1150468254.23862.219.camel@otto.amantes> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: By amavis at egwn.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.683 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_SBL=3.16] X-Spam-Score: 0.683 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:31:37 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 15:43 -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. I agree with Ronald (though violate is overstating it :)) that this should not be done by the GNOME foundation as such. It would make sense for a group of distributions to team up in some form to do this - but the GNOME Foundation should be about Free Software. (For those of you like me that didn't get Brian's original mail - he was asking what people think about the possibility of some distributors giving money to the GNOME foundation so that the GNOME foundation could pay the license fees for proprietary codecs) Thomas From jdub@waugh.id.au Fri Jun 16 13:08:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A48363B00E0 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07045-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8343B0131 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net [150.101.121.112]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2123C28B for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:13 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C1860200E6; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060616170703.GM17421@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Reply-By: Tue Jun 20 03:04:24 EST 2006 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-23-686 i686 X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Uptime: 03:04:24 up 15 days, 2:56, 9 users, load average: 0.13, 0.05, 0.02 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:08:00 -0000 > I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that > the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single > license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like > this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save > money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. It seems more appropriate that this be pursued by distributors and Fluendo themselves (distributing directly to end users) than GNOME. We don't control the integration or immediate end-user experience, so there's not a lot we can do that will directly impact users here - unless you can think of other opportunities. If you mean "us" to include all distributors as well, that is a different issue. :-) (btw, you wrote a very long mail for a few short points) - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "You can't just find cake. Cake isn't naturally occuring." - Penny Arcade From cjb@mrao.cam.ac.uk Fri Jun 16 15:50:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7F03B00DC for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18185-06 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk (mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk [131.111.48.8]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8473B0074 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skye.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.48.158] ident=mail) by mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FrKJZ-0001YY-20; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:09 +0100 Received: from islay.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.48.119]) by skye.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1FrKJY-0004jt-00; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 To: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> From: Chris Ball Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> (Brian Cameron's message of "Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Social Property, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , Sriram Ramkrishna , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:50:09 -0000 >> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Brian Cameron said: > Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely > make free software more popular rather than less. Since the > license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be > terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't > work well. "Those who would give up freedom to purchase a little temporary popularity deserve neither." I think that Sriram's right about talking to the distributions. You'll find that most (Fedora, etc) have already committed to not ship patent-encumbered codecs regardless of whether a license is available, though. See, for example, the lack of success ESR had with suggesting that Fedora license an MP3 decoder: http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2006-March/msg01286.html - Chris. -- Chris Ball From murrayc@murrayc.com Fri Jun 16 17:51:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6923B0106 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22708-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarthymail-a5.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-176.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.176]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB5B3B01D2 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noname (p5497EE72.dip.t-dialin.net [84.151.238.114]) by swarthymail-a5.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B6E109EAC; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Murray Cumming To: Brian Cameron In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:50:21 +0200 Message-Id: <1150494621.5811.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.481 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.118, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.481 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , Sriram Ramkrishna , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:51:08 -0000 On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 16:15 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: [snip] > The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with > multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate > with the desktop. [snip] Ignoring the rest of this thread, the start of which hasn't reached my inbox yet... We are not against "Intellectual property", or copyright in general. This is the kind of phrasing I'd expect in a "Linux is for communists" article. We just like to license our copyrighted stuff in a particular way, and generally prefer software that does that too. So I think you really need to avoid this odd terminology, if it's not what you mean, or understand. Murray From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Fri Jun 16 18:13:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56933B04E4 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23880-02 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3029D3B05DF for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-03.sun.com ([192.18.108.177]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5GLTqdA022116 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0Z00F012706I00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0Z00JL52DRY1G0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:29:54 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-reply-to: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: thomas@apestaart.org Message-id: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.703 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.639] X-Spam-Score: -1.703 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:13:13 -0000 Thomas: I was going to point you towards the archives, but the GNOME archives seem all messed up - no emails before today. Here was my original email. It seems after the responses, that there is little interest in providing encumbered plugins on GNOME distros. While not exactly the answer I was hoping for, I appreciate people exploring the idea and explaining the state of affairs to me. Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. Brian Brian Cameron wrote: > > As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP > plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video > plugins are currently in beta-test. > > http://shop.fluendo.com/ > > While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs > (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that > the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows > IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if > users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). > > They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use > UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the > plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all > UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the > desktop market. > > In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization > like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could > be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian > Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible > if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked > out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME > distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich > experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in > donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? > > As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have > similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own > RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount > of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real > with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely > that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and > RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in > a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems > it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if > they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that > represents such a small percentage of desktop users. > > Is this worth exploring? > > Brian > From newren@gmail.com Fri Jun 16 19:33:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C7A43B06BB for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27362-02 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4A83B06CE for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so554080wxd for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.132.14 with SMTP id f14mr4808064wxd; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.102.9 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:26:36 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_TK=0.077, TW_YG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:33:40 -0000 Hi everyone, This is just a quick email to ask for help in improving the dogfoodability of our tarballs and CVS. See the lists below my verbose explanation if you want to jump to the details. :) Currently, buildability from either tarballs or CVS is pretty poor; I wouldn't consider either in a dogfoodable state. Most of it is just small things that are easily fixed, but it really adds up. We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we just fix the modules??"). There have also been multiple cases where we have had to revert modules to older versions. It's worth noting that not all is bad -- a quick search shows that there are over two dozen build bugs that have been fixed in the last week and that's only counting the ones that I filed. So people are definitely working hard on this. We'd just like to ask for some extra help where possible to clean up the remainder of the issues (in fact, a bunch of them already have patches...). Luis also wanted me to say: I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole release until they are all fixed. The email should stress that time-based releases only work if the code is dogfoodable all the time. I'd suggest requesting a volunteer to scream at d-d-l every time tinderbox breaks. IMHO, publicly shaming those who break the build is the only way you're going to achieve regular buildability- bugzilla is insufficient. Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gtkmm 344788 (and 344787) simple build warnings gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-vfs 344349 checks for selinux aren't robust gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x pygtk 344845 (probably fixed now by pygtk-2.15.2) deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) Problems in non-release-set modules: ----------------------------------- rhythmbox 343718 partially fixed, but fix has new problems rhythmbox 345036 last released tarball won't build under 2.15.x From rdepantalon@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 19:52:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDEE3B000C for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03892-01 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372463B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so2191648nzo for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=kSddZwdPfx/WyIQpZeK81Xawz3TozY9KqS04dlWboeOVpJ3aaRLpDx/0dYKz3/feqSN+r6rxBHrdlPTaPOIWO4MsPINgNKuMajC4hM/g6nVo62d/l708y/OXodJ0MXIk/YSGVlYs3vVaS56GB65uLTQU0IOaufzFWiJhplelOpo= Received: by 10.36.216.6 with SMTP id o6mr2797570nzg; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.15.72 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:52:01 +0200 From: "Rousseau de Pantalon" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.804 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_00_10=0.795, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.804 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:30:21 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:52:53 -0000 ------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Gnome Developers, I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version. End-users hate decisions. In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd. Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown. Step back. Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested. Step back. Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns. This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do. Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out. This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful. It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John ! Now for the good news: I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell. I like it very much. Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it. Kind regards, Rousseau de Pantalon. ------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Gnome Developers,

I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version.
End-users hate decisions.
In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd.

Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown.
Step back.
Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested.
Step back.

Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns.
This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do.

Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out.
This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful.
It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in
much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma.

I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John !

Now for the good news:
I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell.
I like it very much.

Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it.


Kind regards,
  Rousseau de Pantalon.


------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237-- From james.henstridge@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 05:39:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 294AE3B06EB for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16649-01 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27B33B06B7 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so605960wxd for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.30.12 with SMTP id d12mr5397726wxd; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 17:37:17 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Rousseau de Pantalon" Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 20cb2d36a3ec3620 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.585 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.585 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:39:03 -0000 On 13/06/06, Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. > It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of > devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in > much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. > > I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John > Ellis: Thanx John ! Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective with hotplugable hardware, since you don't need to configure separate applets for each drive. Furthermore, the new applet works better with the rest of the desktop: 1. it can see all the drives that Nautilus can 2. it can unmount a volume even when a Nautilus window is open for the volume. If it is missing drives, that would mean that Nautilus can't see those drives in its "computer" view either. This would be a bug to fix in gnome-vfs (which would fix both the drive mounter and Nautilus). James. From decaycell@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 09:41:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5333B013A for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23044-07 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4693B00A6 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so1975371uge for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.9 with SMTP id c9mr23610ugj; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.0.0.7? ( [217.132.240.49]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id y7sm4378445ugc.2006.06.17.06.40.32; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A Framework for Desktop Syndication From: Yaron Tausky To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:07 +0300 Message-Id: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.042 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.042 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:41:23 -0000 Hi, I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps if you think this is all rubbish. :-) On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. -- Yaron Tausky From davyd@bridgewayconsulting.com.au Sat Jun 17 12:36:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D143B0165; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27617-08; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au [203.56.14.38]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164FF3B0083; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A7FE22E8004; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 (WST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 From: Davyd Madeley To: release-team@gnome.org Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.263 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-2.742, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=0.827, RCVD_IN_WHOIS_BOGONS=2.43, UNIQUE_WORDS=2.347] X-Spam-Score: 0.263 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:13 -0000 On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the new libxklavier). --d -- Davyd Madeley http://www.davyd.id.au/ 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Sat Jun 17 15:14:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B47B3B00FD; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04221-08; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F663B010F; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060617191412m1200a7tike>; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:14:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Davyd Madeley In-Reply-To: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:11 -0400 Message-Id: <1150571651.7998.6.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.654 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.345, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.654 X-Spam-Level: Cc: release-team@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:14:57 -0000 The only people who do do not make mistakes are dead. We do appreciate your contributions to open source. Onwards, -Joseph ============================================================================ On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 18:25 +0800, Davyd Madeley wrote: > On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > > > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x > > I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the > new libxklavier). > > --d > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From dodji.seketeli@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:10:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245C03B0178 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06436-02 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.193]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEBBB3B0207 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so598956wxd for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.32.20 with SMTP id f20mr5883880wxf; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.1 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:10:05 +0200 From: "dodji Seketeli" Sender: dodji.seketeli@gmail.com To: "Yaron Tausky" Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> X-Google-Sender-Auth: c517aee610ca8ae6 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.151, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:10:24 -0000 Hello, This sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe you should bring the developer of applications like liferea into the loop. There is certainly something to be shared with them. This kind of API could simplify the code base of apps like liferea and allow other applications to provide syndication to their users, at a very low development cost. Dodji. On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: > Hi, > I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the > use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified > intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's > database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is > for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can > think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. > I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think > there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps > if you think this is all rubbish. :-) > > On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this > seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to > do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not > integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. > > -- > Yaron Tausky > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From nudrema@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:33:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6F53B0337 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07353-02 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp40.mobistarmail.be (smtp40.mobistarmail.be [193.252.23.61]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFED3B0061 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (unknown [212.224.135.202]) by mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A9A00700008B; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060617203111694.A9A00700008B@mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be Message-ID: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:08 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060612) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rousseau de Pantalon Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.971 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.441, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.069] X-Spam-Score: -1.971 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:33:01 -0000 Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. Well, it actually is, especially when you don't show volume icons on your desktop (it's more convenient than showing the "network" place to unmount the volume) This reminds me of two issues : the impossibility to show *only* the volume icons (and not the remote location ones, see bug #159245), and the missing context menu of the places menu (yeah, context menu of menu sounds weird, but it would be great to be able to unmount a volume by right-clicking on its entry in the places menu...) From gnome@nextreality.net Sat Jun 17 18:35:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD3C3B0485; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13210-09; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A40DF3B0321; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 361E035904; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:34:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C8335901; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:34:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44948375.80400@nextreality.net> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:34:29 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: release-team@gnome.org Subject: Re: bug buddy branched References: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> In-Reply-To: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_LR=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-i18n@gnome.org, GNOME Documentation , desktop-devel-list X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:35:21 -0000 This never made it to my mailbox, so I am resending. Brent Smith wrote: > Bug buddy has been branched. > > gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release > HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development > will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From jdub@waugh.id.au Sun Jun 18 06:13:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29A53B0776 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17209-03 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 406B33B015A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (unknown [81.80.162.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5E23D85D for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:11:51 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8D347410D; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:11:48 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:11:48 +0200 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet Message-ID: <20060618101148.GB19478@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 i686 Reply-By: Wed Jun 21 12:09:21 CEST 2006 X-Uptime: 12:09:21 up 53 min, 5 users, load average: 0.11, 0.17, 0.24 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.543 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.543 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:13:17 -0000 > Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to > the radio-buttuns. I was pushing for a solution that sits somewhere in the middle of those points for Ubuntu, but for various reasons the single dialogue approach was taken. Separate dialogues for 'turn off' and 'log out' make sense, but making them very distinct (as with the Ubuntu or better, Windows XP) dialogues would be a great incremental improvement to what we already have in 2.14. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ Perl: Making thick Windows admins redundant since 1987. From jdub@waugh.id.au Sun Jun 18 06:42:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72523B0AF0 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19039-06 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96AB3B09F2 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (unknown [81.80.162.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EEC83D862; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:14:05 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 09DF2410D; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:14:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:14:03 +0200 From: Jeff Waugh To: Elijah Newren Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: Elijah Newren , Gnome Desktop Development List References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 i686 Reply-By: Wed Jun 21 12:12:38 CEST 2006 X-Uptime: 12:12:38 up 56 min, 5 users, load average: 0.14, 0.15, 0.21 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:42:49 -0000 > We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with > each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we > just fix the modules??"). ... 8< ... > Luis also wanted me to say: > I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to > release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole > release until they are all fixed. Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release management process, cf. signature. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak From lists@edmack.com Sun Jun 18 07:29:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBE73B0321 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20926-05 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vega.idns2.com (vega.idns2.com [85.92.70.238]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DD63B02EF for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [83.245.47.174] (helo=[10.0.0.10]) by vega.idns2.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FrrTK-0004l5-4d; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:26 +0100 Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication From: Ed Mack To: Yaron Tausky In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:12 +0100 Message-Id: <1150614792.8849.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - vega.idns2.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - edmack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:15 -0000 > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified Perhaps you should look into getting the D-BUS interface standardised through Free-Desktop so that applications can rely on it outside of Gnome. Ed Mack From 5madfarmers@gmail.com Fri Jun 16 18:41:21 2006 Return-Path: <5madfarmers@gmail.com> X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82673B0382 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24905-05 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8303B022B for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c39so718501pyd for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.37.18 with SMTP id p18mr5094493pyj; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.28.4 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:35:01 -0500 From: "5 Mad Farmers" <5madfarmers@gmail.com> To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Need an icon and stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:55:10 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:41:21 -0000 First, sorry for the noise but I figure this is the correct list. I'm about 1/3 done with a program that is GPL and intended for Gnome users. "DVD Juicer" not that I'm a name mimic or anything. The program is just a simple C wrapper (gtk of course) around extract/transcode type tools and the program itself isn't linked to any questionably licensed libraries - it calls external programs. It aims for simplicity and the hope is the people that use it won't have to understand frame rates, codecs, yada yada yada. The program picks the main track (all can be selected) and the user just hits "record" and that's that. In any event I'm not very artistically gifted and am looking for somebody to develop an icon for it. I pretty much know what I'm after but don't have graphic skills. After that I guess I'm wondering about hosting issues. Assuming that I get it banged into useable state, at that point I'd be kind of wanting a mailing list and perhaps someplace to host a tarball, bugzilla too I guess. I'm not subscribed but lurk the list so if you're interested in the icon thing I'd appreciate an email. If somebody can point me to the details for web hosting issues I'd appreciate that too. Thanks for your time. ---- I didn't spend money on the optional funny tag line. Jeff Waugh used to have very funny ones so just paste one of his here. From fherrera@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 10:56:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CD83B0100 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31366-04 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D27AE3B0089 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2212674uge for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.9 with SMTP id c9mr919239ugj; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.13 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:48:42 +0300 From: "Fernando Herrera" Sender: fherrera@gmail.com To: "GNOME Desktop Hackers" Subject: Crash reports from GNOME bindings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3fe5fbd740cb679d X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.391 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.133, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.391 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 14:56:25 -0000 Hello, current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and Gtk# applications, so here is the question: Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for GNOME 2.16 release? Salu2. From luis.villa@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 11:37:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86C33B0CBB for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00472-10 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.194]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C753B0C12 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so668272wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.116.8 with SMTP id o8mr7058887wxc; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.10.19 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2cb10c440606180829g5729c210p27134929060a7073@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:33 -0400 From: "Luis Villa" To: "Fernando Herrera" Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.558 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.558 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:37:36 -0000 Larry Ewing swore to me he'd do this for mono... Larry? :) By the way, let me suggest that this is really critical for binding-based apps to mature. GNOME without bug-buddy would still be very unstable. Bringing bug-buddy to the people developing with your bindings is a *huge* bonus for them, even if they don't know it :) Luis On 6/18/06, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From gjc@inescporto.pt Sun Jun 18 12:02:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2537E3B0CC3 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01599-07 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from animal.inescn.pt (correio.inescn.pt [194.117.24.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233553B0CC5 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/7) with ESMTP id k5IG111T008021; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:01:01 +0100 (WEST) Received: from pong.inescporto.pt (pong.inescn.pt [194.117.26.74]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/5) with ESMTP id k5IG0rMG007976; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:00:54 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pong.inescporto.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AAE5119288; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:57:41 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings From: Gustavo Carneiro To: Fernando Herrera In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INESC Porto Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:00:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at inescporto.pt X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.389 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.389 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:02:01 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-18 at 17:48 +0300, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). Thanks and regards. > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From nudrema@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 15:25:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264F73B0115 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08453-02 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp40.mobistarmail.be (smtp40.mobistarmail.be [193.252.23.61]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5052F3B008F for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (unknown [212.224.135.11]) by mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D887F7000088; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:52 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060618192452886.D887F7000088@mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be Message-ID: <4495A882.2080608@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:50 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060612) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rousseau de Pantalon Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet References: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.973 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.443, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.069] X-Spam-Score: -1.973 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:25:59 -0000 Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > 1. > The fact that it can see all drives Nautilus can see *is* the problem. > (My harddrives and their partitions are *not* hot-pluggable -- are your's ?) > If I want to see *all* my partitions, mounted or not, I'll open the > Computer Icon. > An applet such as this should at least filter out harddisk-partitions > and only show removable (usb) devices. > Better yet, have a customizable filter on volume-label / id / > device-name or so. In fact, it looks like a bug in your side. Here I only have an icon for my floppy disk (which can't be mounted automatically) and my CD or USB drive when I put them in... My permanent partitions (and I have several of those) don't show up. > 2. > The user cannot filter the devices / partitions shown. Does not matter since only the non-permanent ones should be shown. The icon appears when I plug my USB drive in, or when I put a CD in my CD drive, and then disappears after unmounting/ejecting it. > 3. > All Icons look alike. > It's just a replica of the Computer Icon. > One cannot assign icons to distinguish devices. Once again it looks like a bug. Here (Ubuntu Dapper, Gnome 2.14) I have a different icon for CD and for floppy. > ON THE RIGHT is a panel with the pre-2.10 applet representing my: > - floppy-drive > - pendrive #1 (floppy-disk-size -- bootable) > - the 64MB XD card in my printer > - my 256MB pendrive > - my other 256 MB pendrive > - my 750MB zipdisk > - my DVD-ROM player > - my DVD-writer > - my USB 5G mini-harddrive > - my MP3-player's internal 256MB memory > - my MP3-players 512MB SD extension BTW are you sure you don't have all those in your fstab and let hal/udev/whatever do its job ? It looks weird to me to have that many different usb drive placeholders... I guess not. The previous applets had that issue of not being friendly with this auto-configuration stuff: it wasn't possible to make one show up when you plug an USB drive. Actually, this works even if you've never used a USB key before. Looking at my fstab, I can see I have an entry for my CD-ROM drive, and for my IDE hard drives. That's all. Not even a line for my floppy, nor usb drives. > I propose the following: > - A filter in which the user can select the mountable devices to be > shown on the panel. > - The ability to attach a meaningful (custom) icon that represents the > device. > - Falling back to fstab if mounting/unmounting using udev/hotplug does > not do the trick. > - Make famd more aware of Nautilus created files/folders like > .Trash----- and thus not blocking unmounts. Maybe you should fill it as a bug in bugzilla if you think it's really useful to some people. -- Steve http://tw.apinc.org From benoit@placenet.org Sun Jun 18 16:21:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 381A33B000A; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09725-01; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ibook.free.fr (benoit.placenet.org [82.241.234.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81BA3B0071; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ibook.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B6458DF; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:52 +0200 (CEST) Subject: gnome-system-monitor has been branched From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Beno=EEt?= Dejean To: gnome-i18n@gnome.org, gnome-doc-list@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, release-team@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1" Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:51 +0200 Message-Id: <1150658211.603.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:21:23 -0000 --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The stable branch is gnome-2-14 and the development branch is HEAD. --=20 Beno=C3=AEt Dejean JID: TazForEver@jabber.org GNOME http://www.gnomefr.org/ LibGTop http://directory.fsf.org/libgtop.html --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Ceci est une partie de message =?ISO-8859-1?Q?num=E9riquement?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_sign=E9e?= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBElaajliyxJIUSPQoRAtcDAJ9JZw+cTZKTWNXZBBYFCtnpm/kJuQCeO14Y Kl72P/ZsSyMPW7l+8680xm8= =ubQu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1-- From fherrera@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 16:36:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CEBD3B00AF for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09616-05 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B8E3B000A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2273703uge for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id u9mr4817144ugg; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.13 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:35:18 +0300 From: "Fernando Herrera" Sender: fherrera@gmail.com To: "Gustavo Carneiro" Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 105387f1bb21b58d X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.51 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.090, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.51 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:36:18 -0000 On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed by bug-buddy after the bug report. I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. Salu2 From james.henstridge@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 22:13:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C8B3B02DE for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20489-08 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.205]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2019D3B0196 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so718551wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.15.4 with SMTP id 4mr1982726wxo; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:47:45 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Alan Horkan" , "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: b5f0f0028f3b89ab X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.589 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.589 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:13:50 -0000 On 19/06/06, Alan Horkan wrote: > > Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find > > to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective > > Dont know what the original commenter disliked about the applet but I > found it annoying that the icons are set to be generic looking drives > ("mystery meat") to start with, even though each button is assigned to > specific device type. Only when the drive is mounted change to look like > CD/USB/Floppy etc and that little bit of extra guesswork/memorisation is > something I could do without. That is something that might be worth fixing. The drive mount applet gets all the drive images from gnome-vfs (using gnome_vfs_drive_get_icon and gnome_vfs_volume_get_icon). If gnome-vfs is changed to provide better icons for unmounted drives/volumes, that will fix their display in the applet and Nautilus. James. From paolo.maggi@polito.it Mon Jun 19 03:28:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4733B0DB7; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30352-05; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from polito.it (anacreon.polito.it [130.192.3.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE963B0BA0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:21 -0400 (EDT) X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's FindAttachments (free) Received: from [82.105.171.149] (account d003505@polito.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by anacreon.polito.it (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPSA id 39168140; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:03 +0200 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Paolo Maggi To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.41 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.41 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:28:53 -0000 Hi, I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the languages name (the iso_639 module). I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? Ciao, Paolo From Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM Mon Jun 19 05:50:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D13CA3B0004; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02234-10; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EB03B008F; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-02.sun.com (d1-emea-02.sun.com [192.18.2.112] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5J9nVFW019335; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-02.sun.com by d1-emea-02.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1300C01PF1AF00@d1-emea-02.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.150.120.119] by d1-emea-02.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J13006BTPYFPW88@d1-emea-02.sun.com>; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:30 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:27 +0100 From: Darren Kenny Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-reply-to: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sender: Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM To: Paolo Maggi Message-id: <44967327.4060809@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060602) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:50:46 -0000 Has anyone looked into the use of Tim Fosters (yeah Glynn's brother) open language tools? https://open-language-tools.dev.java.net/ I know they are in Java, but this is the main point of what it addresses - the sharing of translations - while it doesn't have the "server" functionality, it does go some way to supporting the idea of sharing of translations. Darren. PS - I'm no expert in L10N or I18N, so please excuse my ignorance... Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? > > Ciao, > Paolo > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From james.henstridge@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 06:40:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC373B008F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04861-01 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8272D3B00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so171003wxd for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.130.3 with SMTP id c3mr8315800wxd; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:39:56 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Paolo Maggi" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8275e60f19f7fc95 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:40:48 -0000 On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't be presented as such to the user. James. From ArC@gulic.org Mon Jun 19 06:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7685C3B00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05102-08 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es [193.145.138.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D52433B008F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (Postfix, from userid 43062) id 57E74C00E0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:07 +0100 (WEST) Received: from savor.gulic.org (gulic.ulpgc.es [193.145.155.10]) by smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14619C00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:07 +0100 (WEST) Received: from socios.gulic.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by savor.gulic.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3048C415B for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 (WEST) Received: from phpmailer ([217.126.206.203]) by socios.gulic.org with HTTPS (PHPMailer); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org From: Alberto Carlos Ruiz Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication Message-ID: <3acf4f39f60be389c617b40fbe1978cb@socios.gulic.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.71] X-Mailer: FeLaMiMail version 0.9.5 Organization: gulic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-PostfixSecure-Antispam: valid X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.444, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:47:21 -0000 dodji Seketeli escribi=C3=B3:=20 Hi there I've been working around using feed syndication on the desktop, in fact = I've wrote a little app to syndicate art.gnome.org brand new atom format, to automatic install backgrounds from the site, Jilorio, (http://aruiz.synaptia.net/siliconisland/2006/05/jilorio_feed_fo.html) Gtk and metacity themes are also planned. While I was writting the app, I was wondering how could I centralize the feed agregation since I would use several feeds, and I've been thinking another uses of feeds around the desktop. So I think that a solution like this could rock to approach a "live desktop" which can change using the internet content. >Dodji. > >On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: >> Hi, >> I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the >> use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of = a >> daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified >> intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's >> database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is >> for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I = can >> think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. >> I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think >> there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps >> if you think this is all rubbish. :-) >> >> On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this >> seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to >> do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not >> integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. >> >> -- >> Yaron Tausky >> >> _______________________________________________ >> desktop-devel-list mailing list >> desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list >> >_______________________________________________ >desktop-devel-list mailing list >desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From isak.savo@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 08:36:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F2A3B0C86 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11267-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qb-out-0506.google.com (qb-out-0506.google.com [72.14.204.234]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2013B3B0D60 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id e11so84670qba for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.124.12 with SMTP id b12mr4271765qbn; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.181.6 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50b611120606190510hac0a14cvabbe1aa3b0de5193@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:10:26 +0200 From: "Isak Savo" To: "James Henstridge" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:36:29 -0000 2006/6/19, James Henstridge : > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. This is also what the FSF states on their license page[1]. That page also contains links to already translated versions of the three GNU licenses. They are unofficial though, in the sense that it is the English version that what counts in court. Isak [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#UnofficialTranslations From alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk Mon Jun 19 08:37:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A663B0C86; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11302-04; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (unknown [81.2.110.250]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E433B0C98; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5JCpUKM004774; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:30 +0100 Received: (from alan@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5JCpTFs004773; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: alan set sender to alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk using -f Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Alan Cox To: James Henstridge In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 Message-Id: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.59 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.59 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:37:01 -0000 Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a foreign language will not find much favour. The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less important property. The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. Translations really should include a translation of the license text where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that the American English version is the authorative document for legal purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and what rights you have given them. Alan From rosechr@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 12:32:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48553B01C6 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20459-06 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.174]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C7C3B0196 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2608745uge for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.16 with SMTP id 16mr2246685huw; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.12 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:31:50 +0200 From: "Christian Rose" Sender: rosechr@gmail.com To: "Paolo Maggi" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 276aabd410967e48 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.32 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.280, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.32 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:32:39 -0000 On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least for the short License declarations (like "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: 1) Most common widget and menu names are already defined (and translated) in GTK+. A "License" button would be the same thing. 2) If there was an "add a license dialog to my app" API for developers to use, it would make sense to allow a template for the short declarations of most common licenses to be used. If run in a non-English locale, also display a non-official translation if it exists. 3) External dependencies that help translation (like the iso_639 module) are very useful, but developers are often not aware of it, and for obvious reasons they try to avoid unnecessary dependencies, so in practice, few applications make use of them. > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? It is a real problem. I've lost track of how many times I have manually copied the unofficial Swedish translation of the "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..." "This app is GPL"-style declaration blurb into different applications. Even more exciting since different applications format the texts differently (with or without newlines and/or markup, different amount of spacing, etc) and give different addresses to the FSF (the FSF changed address at least once), so the number of variants in use is enormous... A "do it once, do it right" convenience API for developers to use for this would be a big plus, for both developers and translators. Christian From sri@aracnet.com Mon Jun 19 15:04:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 429B43B00DB for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27155-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [216.99.193.114]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F076F3B01DA for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [127.0.0.1]) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5JJ3HTw003291; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:17 -0700 Received: (from sri@localhost) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k5JJ3GPQ003289; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060619190316.GI7996@aracnet.com> References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.563 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.563 X-Spam-Level: Cc: thomas@apestaart.org, GNOME Desktop X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:04:41 -0000 On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 04:29:54PM -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" > attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to > purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather > than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially > if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I > don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made > yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make > a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. My advice to you is to sit with the other distributions and figure out how to do it from a "GNU/Linux platform" perspective. You can't be the only company who wants to have proprietary format work "out of the box" I don't know if there is a "distro summit" but that would be the first place I would hit to start pushing for this kind of thing. But doing it from the GNOME project perspective doesn't seem very likely. So it's exactly what you're planning to do now, but it would be the distributions not the GNOME project. True it complicates the task, but if distributors want to grow their share of the desktop market they'll probably want to opt into your idea. Besides, it's a great way to get some good press by leading. :-) sri From gnome@nextreality.net Mon Jun 19 22:12:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85613B036C for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17303-05 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1B93B00C4 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id B3CAB35904; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:11:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0F8F35901; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:11:39 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:11:48 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fernando Herrera Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.023, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gustavo Carneiro , GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:12:35 -0000 Fernando Herrera wrote: > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Any security implications there? -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From behdad.esfahbod@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 23:40:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57FC63B0E8D for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20798-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481263B0E65 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so1088126wra for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.112.1 with SMTP id k1mr6865222wrc; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.190.5? ( [72.136.156.47]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 64sm4643160wra.2006.06.19.20.39.51; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Behdad Esfahbod To: Christian Rose In-Reply-To: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:39:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1150774790.14758.3.camel@home> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 (2.6.1-1.fc5.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: Behdad Esfahbod X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:40:43 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 12:31 -0400, Christian Rose wrote: > On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least > for the short License declarations (like "This program is free > software; you can redistribute it and/or > modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: I replied to this thread, but seems like it didn't make it through the list. I've been working on exactly what you suggest in this bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336225 A couple of technical questions remain open, but you get the idea. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" From james.henstridge@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 03:07:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1303B0ECF for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31382-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hu-out-0102.google.com (hu-out-0102.google.com [72.14.214.195]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C833B0EFC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hu-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 24so655028hud for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.8.15 with SMTP id 15mr9925328wxh; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:58:48 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Alan Cox" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d5d09b8fe4015615 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.042 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.042 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:07:10 -0000 On 19/06/06, Alan Cox wrote: > Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > > be presented as such to the user. > > True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a > foreign language will not find much favour. > > The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the > code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less > important property. > > The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. > Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot > exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, > oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. > > Translations really should include a translation of the license text > where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that > the American English version is the authorative document for legal > purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. > > Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and > what rights you have given them. Those are good points, and it sounds like a good idea to show an unofficial translation along with the real license. But it needs to be clear that if the translation and the english text differ that the english text be considered authorative. This is particularly important if the translated text is displayed when the user asks the app what its license is. James. From paolo.maggi@polito.it Tue Jun 20 04:21:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA53E3B0306; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02498-06; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from polito.it (anacreon.polito.it [130.192.3.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F463B0008; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's FindAttachments (free) Received: from [82.105.171.149] (account d003505@polito.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by anacreon.polito.it (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPSA id 39199418; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:44 +0200 Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Paolo Maggi To: James Henstridge In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:40 +0200 Message-Id: <1150791580.5512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.44 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.44 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:21:22 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 18:39 +0800, James Henstridge wrote: > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. I don't want to show in the License dialog the entire license text but only the good old "This program is free software... [snip]....You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program..." snippet. I agree with you translations of license text could be problematic. But I don't think this is the case since the text only says which is the license and where to find it. Ciao, Paolo From gjc@inescporto.pt Tue Jun 20 07:09:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183533B05ED for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10580-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from animal.inescn.pt (correio.inescn.pt [194.117.24.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55F93B0450 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/7) with ESMTP id k5KB8Ngq012815; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:23 +0100 (WEST) Received: from pong.inescporto.pt (pong.inescn.pt [194.117.26.74]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/5) with ESMTP id k5KB88pn012723; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:08 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pong.inescporto.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B2AAEB66; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:04:51 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings From: Gustavo Carneiro To: Brent Smith In-Reply-To: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INESC Porto Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:08:06 +0200 Message-Id: <1150801686.6052.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at inescporto.pt X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.427 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.427 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Fernando Herrera , GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:09:25 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 20:11 -0600, Brent Smith wrote: > Fernando Herrera wrote: > > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > > > > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then > the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Sounds good. > > Any security implications there? None that I can see. -- Gustavo Carneiro INESC Porto From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 11:06:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298EF3B0135 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21825-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.239]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923863B00E9 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so1191720wra for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.136.11 with SMTP id j11mr644636wrd; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:06:07 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: About Unix Power for Gnome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: d7d7ccabfc274142 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:06:50 -0000 Hi all, I'm brand new here so first of all I'll present myself. My name is Christian, I'm from italy (really near Venice) and I've finished university (computer science) last October, of course I'm a free software user and enthusiast (actually using Debian on my desktop and Ubuntu on my notebook, both with Gnome as desktop environment). For my master thesis I've done a work that probably fit quite well with the Unix Power for Gnome problem raised by Rodrigo Moya about one year ago (http://blogs.gnome.org/view/rodrigo/2005/08/19/0). Last week I've published the project born from my thesis on sourceforge at http://sflux.sourceforge.net The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application. What I've thought is a way to describe a computer system (documents, applications and operations) using Semantic Web technologies (RDF/OWL/Sparql) so that S-Flux (the application I've done) can understand what operations can be done on a particular document(s) using the applications installed on the system, create a pipeline of operations and actually perform them. On the site you'll find a couple of screencast too, 'cause I know my english is not so good so seeing is better than reading :-) The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about it. Thanks a lot for the attention, ciao! Christian. From paolo.bacchilega@libero.it Tue Jun 20 12:45:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39F33B01C9; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29388-10; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp7.libero.it (smtp7.libero.it [193.70.192.90]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8D93B0EA1; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (172.16.1.8) by smtp7.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 4464C609038C90BE; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:44:55 +0200 Received: from smtp0.libero.it ([172.16.1.204]) by localhost (asav9.libero.it [193.70.192.87]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20713-03; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:44:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [151.53.96.255] (unknown [151.53.96.255]) by smtp0.libero.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FAAD3355E9; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:00 +0200 (MEST) Subject: file-roller branched From: Paolo Bacchilega To: Desktop Devel , GNOME Documentation , GNOME I18N List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:45 +0200 Message-Id: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: with antispam and antivirus automated system at libero.it X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.691 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708] X-Spam-Score: -0.691 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:45:03 -0000 Hi, the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. Regards, Paolo. From harmon@ksu.edu Tue Jun 20 12:49:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B223B0E2A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29748-09; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.cc.ksu.edu (smtp2.cc.ksu.edu [129.130.7.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52133B05F8; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [129.130.11.189] (dhcp19.user.cis.ksu.edu [129.130.11.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp2.cc.ksu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5KGnCK5017430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:49:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:50:20 -0500 From: "Scott J. Harmon" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060601) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paolo Bacchilega Subject: Re: file-roller branched References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1551/Tue Jun 20 08:37:21 2006 on virusfilter2.cc.ksu.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , GNOME Documentation , Desktop Devel X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:49:17 -0000 Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > Hi, > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture changing bugs... > Regards, > Paolo. > Thanks, Scott. From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 12:53:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C653B0CE7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30222-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCEE33B0F2A for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so390349wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.130.3 with SMTP id c3mr10723588wxd; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:53:35 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Scott J. Harmon" Subject: Re: file-roller branched In-Reply-To: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , Desktop Devel , GNOME Documentation X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:53:44 -0000 On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > Hi, > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > changing bugs... Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get freeze break approval) ;-) From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 13:36:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513113B00B7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00401-02 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.200]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F333B016D for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so396333wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.78.15 with SMTP id a15mr8688279wxb; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:35:47 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Elijah Newren" , "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs In-Reply-To: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:36:21 -0000 On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > management process, cf. signature. > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both (There is a patch but claims nss has to be disabled for e-d-s for it to work) Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html (Frederic Peters has a patch for this) evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) From murrayc@murrayc.com Tue Jun 20 14:28:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DA53B0188 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04324-10 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarthymail-a4.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-98.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.98]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082073B0499 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noname (p5497DB9C.dip.t-dialin.net [84.151.219.156]) by swarthymail-a4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A788129A8A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs From: Murray Cumming To: Elijah Newren In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:28:20 +0200 Message-Id: <1150828100.6261.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.482 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.117, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.482 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:28:27 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 11:35 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > > management process, cf. signature. > > > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: For really simple things, I think the release-team should just go ahead and fix it, and retarball where necessary, if you can't get a maintainer to do it. (Please, would the release team finally just go ahead and release a libglade 2.6.0 tarball?) -- Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From gnome@nextreality.net Tue Jun 20 22:39:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F893B0591 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00452-03 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE0F3B058E for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 6350235904; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E8E35901; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4498B158.8020609@nextreality.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:39:20 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Elijah Newren Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:10 -0000 Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: >> Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release >> management process, cf. signature. > >> "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be >> like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: > > [snip] > gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h Invoking build sheriff privileges. 2006-06-20 Brent Smith * configure.in: add GTK+ to PKG_CHECK_MODULES so the include path for GTK is specified in the cflags; patch from Elijah Newren, fixes #344695 -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From alexl@redhat.com Wed Jun 21 03:43:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94583B0AF9; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17803-09; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582E73B0E2A; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hjpZ001040; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:45 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hjGc003626; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:45 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hh2W014630; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:44 -0400 Subject: Re: file-roller branched From: Alexander Larsson To: Elijah Newren In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:43:43 +0200 Message-Id: <1150875824.16397.66.camel@greebo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , GNOME Documentation , Desktop Devel X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:43:53 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 10:53 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > > changing bugs... > > Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are > bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or > would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get > freeze break approval) ;-) I'm slightly annoyed at this listing of rules for when you need to branch. There is also the fact that 2.14 is *stable* and fixing bugs can destabilize it as much as adding features can. If you're unsure of the stability of bugfixes its very nice to be able to commit them to a branch immediately and then move the important and stable fixes to the stable branch. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl@redhat.com alla@lysator.liu.se He's a benighted zombie photographer who hides his scarred face behind a mask. She's a wealthy cigar-chomping fairy princess on her way to prison for a murder she didn't commit. They fight crime! From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 04:25:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D4F33B01E2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08370-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78233B0466 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so307952wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.21.9 with SMTP id 9mr2472173wxu; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:25:38 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 03c2f413749c9331 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:25:41 -0000 Really no opinion at all? Maybe something like: * "Good idea but..." * "I don't think that it can solve any problem" * "I really don't like it" * "What the hell is that thing?!" I'd really like to know your opinions. This is my first open project so any advice is really really useful. Ciao! Christian From danilo@gnome.org Thu Jun 22 04:58:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1E03B057D for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10849-01 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from supa.sekjur.com (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45B53B00C5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD61921F8CB; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown by localhost (amavisd-new, unix socket) id client-x7GIvx1J; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.134] (dhcp-87-116-155-154.marshall-bg.customer.sbb.co.yu [87.116.155.154]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520CD21F8C4; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome From: Danilo Segan To: Christian Barbato In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:58:35 +0200 Message-Id: <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sekjur.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.561 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.561 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:58:42 -0000 Hi Christian, У чет, 22. 06 2006. у 10:25 +0200, Christian Barbato пише: > I'd really like to know your opinions. This is my first open project > so any advice is really really useful. GUADEC[1], the Gnome conference, is starting in two days, and everyone is busy with preparations. :) You'll probably get your share of opinions once everything settles. Of course, you're welcome to join us in Vilanova i la Geltrú in Spain :) Cheers, Danilo [1] http://guadec.org/ From kalle.vahlman@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 05:02:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67BE83B0608 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11213-02 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EAAF3B0583 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so311544wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.1 with SMTP id r1mr2731910wxb; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.77.14 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <177e83dd0606220202qf17541eg57bf321e7a4e44d1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:02:12 +0300 From: "Kalle Vahlman" To: "Christian Barbato" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.163 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.437, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.163 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: zuh@iki.fi List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:02:17 -0000 2006/6/22, Christian Barbato : > Really no opinion at all? I think this is not the right medium for the opinions, this list is about developing GNOME, not talking about new applications (even if they do use/integrate with GNOME). The project itself sounds cool though, even if "The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application" doesn't sound like what it is really doing. Seems to me it's more like utilizing CLI programs in a GUI, and as such it only applies to stuff like image/sound/video conversions and other predefined non-interactive actions (not, for example, writing a document). -- Kalle Vahlman, zuh@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 05:35:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC663B00C5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13169-02 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80DBE3B00DE for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so315225wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.116.11 with SMTP id o11mr2771364wxc; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220235g7beadd90y7850879287ba1b68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:35:37 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: "Danilo Segan" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 643165173af50fa9 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:35:40 -0000 2006/6/22, Danilo Segan : > Hi Christian, > > > GUADEC[1], the Gnome conference, is starting in two days, and everyone > is busy with preparations. :) > > You'll probably get your share of opinions once everything settles. Of > course, you're welcome to join us in Vilanova i la Geltr=FA in Spain :) Thanks Danilo, it also seems that I've choosed the wrong mailing-list. Paolo Borelli suggested me gnome-love maybe I'll try there. And of course, I'd really LOVE to be there in Spain at GUADEC but I think I'm too late...maybe next year :-) Ciao! Christian From ruben@Lambda1.be Thu Jun 22 08:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49CC53B025B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26471-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from guri.is.scarlet.be (unknown [193.74.71.22]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32573B02A8 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ([62.235.142.250]) by guri.is.scarlet.be with ESMTP id k5MCks925486; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:55 +0200 Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5255F4604E4; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome From: Ruben Vermeersch To: Christian Barbato In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-DCC-scarlet.be-Metrics: guri 2020; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:47:21 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 17:06 +0200, Christian Barbato wrote: > The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to > deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about > it. Makes me think of Automator [1], which I've always liked as an idea (but never used it). The UI could use a lot of love though, you might want to check up with the HIG. The usefulness of this app will stand and fall with a good interface concept. Also, it should be made dead simple for apps to register their own hooks. Neat idea, but whether it's successful will be highly dependent on how it's worked out. Kind Regards, Ruben [1] http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/automator/ -- Ruben Vermeersch (rubenv) http://www.Lambda1.be/ From d2004@cosmopod.com Mon Jun 19 20:59:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672EA3B0319 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11366-08 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.cosmopod.com (unknown [216.75.2.64]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907E03B0E91 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.cosmopod.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by 64.cosmopod.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5K0vjXa023707 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:45 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by 64.cosmopod.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5K0vjP1023706 for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: 64.cosmopod.com: d2004 set sender to d2004@cosmopod.com using -f From: d2004@cosmopod.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Suggestions from a User Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:44 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.561 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_REAL_NAME=0.961, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -1.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:55:12 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:59:59 -0000 Dear GNOME Developers, I am an end-user wishing to supply some feedback/suggestions on improving o= ur=20 Desktop Environment. I have been using GNOME for quite a long time (first= =20 played with it in the 1.4 days and became a serious user with release 2.0/R= ed=20 Hat 8). I am however, just a user and have no development experience. I a= m=20 also new to this list, so if any of my comments or suggestions are ignorant= =20 or have already been discussed, please forgive me in advance. I was prompted to write this after reading the article in the latest GNOME= =20 Journal about end users: http://www.gnomejournal.org/article/46/the-gnome-community-end-users Hopefully, the following will provide some constructive and positive feedba= ck=20 on areas where the system can be improved. As noted, this is from a high-e= nd=20 user's perspective, (not someone particularly interested in keybindings on= =20 Metacity or the like! :-)) Here is my wishlist: 1. Evolution's spam filter is slow and not as efficient as that of=20 Thunderbird. Optimisation work in this area would be greatly appreciated. 2. When importing a single mail file into Evolution, displaying a list of= =20 files to select from shows the file name and the date but not the file size= =2E =20 Displaying the file size would make it easier to determine which file is=20 which, if there are a large number to choose from. 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for= =20 deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash= =20 rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universa= l=20 repository for deleted data. 4. A mail preview so that incoming messages could be seen without switchin= g=20 from other applications to Evolution all of the time would be appreciated. = =20 Outlook 2003 has a function whereby a message momentarily pops-up on screen= ,=20 allowing the user to see the name of the sender and the subject line. Such= a=20 pop-up may be annoying to some users; however, Google Desktop has an even=20 better solution whereby, in "Sidebar" mode, it displays a list of recent=20 mails on screen. Clicking on one allows it to be opened out and previewed.= =20 =46rom there, clicking on it again opens the actual message in Outlook. A= =20 similar mail preview system for GNOME would therefore result in people bein= g=20 able to see new messages without constantly switching between applications= =20 and also enable them to determine if a message was particularly important. 5. One feature I greatly miss from GEdit is a "block select" function to c= ut=20 and past "blocks" of mono-spaced text. KATE and gVIM have this functionali= ty=20 and, even for non-programmers, it is extremely handy. 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the user= is=20 entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only browser I know of=20 with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has it.) 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, the= =20 user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user wants to= =20 download multiple images from a page, without saving the whole thing. IT=20 also seems, from the usability studies I have read online that new and=20 inexperienced users have a reticence towards right-clicking. The various=20 usability studies I have read by Sun and Novell seem to indicate that peopl= e=20 often do not think to right-click to configure the clock or activate applet= s. =20 Therefore, functions that are present in right-click menus only, such as th= at=20 to save images in the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an ent= ry=20 to "Save All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I know th= at=20 it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) because I can run = it=20 successfully under kppp. However, attempting to configure it under GNOME=20 results in failure as it cannot be detected. This is annoying as, for one= =20 reason, it limits me from using a GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. = =20 kppp is a more than adequate workaround but it would be great for GNOME to= =20 also support these. I realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to=20 broadband but in my (first-world) country there are still many home users=20 with dial-up only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. 9. Also related to this, it is difficult to locate hardware configuration= =20 data under GNOME, such as ports and interrupts. KDE have a centralised=20 hardware browser that provides detailed system information for those seekin= g=20 it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather than= =20 later. 10. A font management system. I did some research and found a short=20 discussion here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2006-March/msg00203.html Indeed, lacking something even the equivalent of the Mac Suitcase is an=20 impediment. =20 11. As that same message notes, DTP is a hole on Linux at the moment. Whi= lst=20 there are a few good applications, such as Scribus and KreetingKard, to=20 appeal to two levels of developer, there are no GTK-based equivalents to=20 promote healthy competition. Such applications are rarely included on=20 distributions. Even Inkscape and Bluefish are often relegated to "extras"=20 repositories. It would be great if more work on consumer level DTP=20 applications could be undertaken. This does not necessarily mean tools=20 equivalent to the likes of Quark and Adobe but smaller programs such as tho= se=20 produced by Serif and Printshop. I realise this would take much time and=20 many resources though. Also, promotion of the likes of Inkscape so that they are more visible to=20 users and included in the "Core" disks of distributions like Fedora would=20 raise the profile of such projects. Perhaps you could lobby the Fedora=20 people? 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the spatial= =20 mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the need for a file= =20 MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming, printing lists of=20 directory structures and so on. Obviously such is readily done from within= =20 the Shell but it would be great if a GNOME tool could do the same. 13. For those managing small networks, it would be great to have=20 the /etc/MOTD file (Message of the Day) appear each time users log in. For= =20 example, if I had a small school network, there may be a message I would li= ke=20 the users to see. A small dialogue box displaying this file on login would= =20 be handy. Obviously, an ability to disable it would be needed and it shoul= d=20 not be activated by default or it would be intrusive to those people with=20 single-user systems. 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like the=20 concept of circular menus mentioned here: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html It seems likely that, by reducing mouse movements, they would improve syste= m=20 ergonomics. Another advantage would be that, in their uniqueness, they wou= ld=20 help to differentiate GNOME from the alternative desktops. Such uniqueness= =20 is always positive marketing, which is why I rankle when I read of certain= =20 parties wanting to make GNOME more similar to Windows. Whilst it may help= =20 users make a transition from WIndows, it does not help give them an incenti= ve=20 to move. GNOME needs to be unique and the care to detail and usability is= =20 part of what has already attracted many people (myself included.) By=20 combining thoughtful ergonomics with eye-catching (but non-distracting)=20 visual ideas, this should help gain an even greater user base. 15. My final request is a purely personal indulgence. It would be great t= o=20 have a GNOME chess game. With the Gnuchess engine available, I am surprise= d=20 no one has included a GTK-based GNOME game due to this pasttime's enduring= =20 popularity, so I would like to lobby for this! That is the sum of my input. I hope that at least some of my ideas are=20 helpful or generate constructive discussion. I look forward to your=20 feedback. I am a newbie here, so do not be too cruel! I realise that soe = of=20 these proposals would be huge work but they are simply ideas of things I=20 would like to see. Maybe next year, maybe in Topaz, maybe even beyond that= =2E =20 There is a lot of work but the GNOME community has already come a long way.= =20 Best wishes to everyone, Danni From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 09:24:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 855FD3B041B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30123-10 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.204]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DEE3B00B8 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so351325wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.1 with SMTP id r1mr3101621wxb; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220624g442a5c35u1392f8a9bff8f25d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:24:57 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: "Ruben Vermeersch" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5e57a2bb7844bd75 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:24:59 -0000 2006/6/22, Ruben Vermeersch : > > Makes me think of Automator [1], which I've always liked as an idea (but > never used it). Oh yes. Automator was announced when I was in the middle of my project. I felt so bad, thinking that I arrived late and someone else developed my idea. But then, when Automator was released, I've looked well at it and tried it too. There are many differences between SFlux and Automator, but probably the one that I care more about is that Automator don't hide the other applications on the system and don't filter out the proposed operations on the basis of the input document(s) (it can be seen as a list of all the operations of all the applications, SFlux actually filter them). > > The UI could use a lot of love though, you might want to check up with > the HIG. The usefulness of this app will stand and fall with a good > interface concept. Bingo! The actual UI is really bad and I have to dramatically improve it. > > Also, it should be made dead simple for apps to register their own > hooks. Bingo again! Thanks a lot for your opinions. Christian. From uws@uwsworld.xs4all.nl Thu Jun 22 10:05:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9163B07F7 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00570-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uwsworld.xs4all.nl (uwsworld.xs4all.nl [194.109.237.238]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E8A3B042E for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uws by uwsworld.xs4all.nl with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1FtPoE-0000V5-00; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200 From: Wouter Bolsterlee To: d2004@cosmopod.com Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User Message-ID: <20060622140525.GA1605@uwsworld.xs4all.nl> Mail-Followup-To: d2004@cosmopod.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> X-message-flag: Guvf zrffntr qbrf abg pbagnva rapelcgrq zrffntrf. X-PGP: key 0x250A63EB, fingerprint 83C5 C205 47AD 539D A4F0 60BF 3FB4 134E 250A 63EB X-Base: All your base are belong to uws User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040907i Sender: Wouter Bolsterlee X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:05:32 -0000 --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First of all, thanks for your input! P=C3=A5 Mon, Jun 19, 2006 at 05:57:44PM -0700, d2004@cosmopod.com skrev: > 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the us= er is=20 > entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only browser I know of= =20 > with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has it.) This feature is being worked on. You can search bugzilla for the bug report and add yourself to the Cc field to track progress. > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, th= e=20 > user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user wants = to=20 > download multiple images from a page, without saving the whole thing. IT= =20 > also seems, from the usability studies I have read online that new and=20 > inexperienced users have a reticence towards right-clicking. The various= =20 > usability studies I have read by Sun and Novell seem to indicate that peo= ple=20 > often do not think to right-click to configure the clock or activate appl= ets. =20 > Therefore, functions that are present in right-click menus only, such as = that=20 > to save images in the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an e= ntry=20 > to "Save All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. I think not many people will use this feature. Therefore it's unlikely that it will be implemented. A tip: just save the page to disk. All related files such as images and stylesheets will be saved to disk as well. > 9. Also related to this, it is difficult to locate hardware configuratio= n=20 > data under GNOME, such as ports and interrupts. KDE have a centralised= =20 > hardware browser that provides detailed system information for those seek= ing=20 > it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather tha= n=20 > later. Have you tried hal-device-manager? mvrgr, Wouter --=20 :wq mail uws@xs4all.nl web http://uwstopia.nl tell myself that i'm not ready yet :: i want to live -- heather nova --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEmqOlP7QTTiUKY+sRAvBsAJ9a45WezIlO/V1hu6kiJ+TwULIJIgCgjOfG vityiebrWNVfZMLvyKzGC7I= =EQ4+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv-- From john.williams.lists@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 01:07:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F683B0670 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15165-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90CE3B06B8 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 34so700008nzf for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.134.15 with SMTP id h15mr3169537nzd; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?202.150.121.117? ( [202.150.121.117]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 6sm3937185nzn.2006.06.22.22.05.57; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User From: John Williams To: d2004@cosmopod.com In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:09:14 +1200 Message-Id: <1151039354.9177.9.camel@office.falcon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.294 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.229, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.294 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 05:07:02 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 17:57 -0700, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I know that > it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) because I can run it > successfully under kppp. However, attempting to configure it under GNOME > results in failure as it cannot be detected. This is annoying as, for one > reason, it limits me from using a GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. > kppp is a more than adequate workaround but it would be great for GNOME to > also support these. I realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to > broadband but in my (first-world) country there are still many home users > with dial-up only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. Hi Danni, and thanks for your mail. At the risk of adding a trivial "me too" message, I would like to amplify your point above. I believe that our problem (I have a similar one) is part of a bigger picture for GNOME. It is this: Software developers, in general, appear to have (and develop on) higher-end systems than those of the average user. I am referring here in particular to CPU speed, RAM and network access speed. One of the many consequences of this is that GNOME networking applications and associated infrastructure are very, very poor at accommodating users with modems, and relatedly, with slow (57k, say) access to the Internet. Not only is it very hard (I have never managed to do it) to set up GNOME's modem tool (I have to use the Network Configuration tool, and log in as root as a consequence), once you are connected many applications have no idea how do deal with: (a) slow connection speeds; and (b) intermittent connectivity Issues related to this can be seen most clearly in Evolution, but also in yumex. In fact, I am about ready to give up on Evolution totally after having used it ever since its first release. I kept on hoping that it would improve, but years down the track it appears that due to the point I raise above (developers not walking in the shoes of users) it will never happen. Sigh. After all that, I would like to say a huge THANKS to all the GNOME developers for all the really, really good stuff that the GNOME community has produced over the years. GNOME is really cool. But let's face it: it's not ready for the (non-corporate, general user) desktop yet. From psankar@novell.com Fri Jun 23 02:04:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BB53B0262 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17962-01 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sinclair.provo.novell.com (sinclair.provo.novell.com [137.65.81.169]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E763B01D2 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from INET-PRV-MTA by sinclair.provo.novell.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:03:57 -0600 Message-Id: <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:03:49 -0600 From: "P Sankar" To: Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User References: <449A5BCF0200004800012AAE@sinclair.provo.novell.com> <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> In-Reply-To: <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.479 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2] X-Spam-Score: -2.479 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:04:04 -0000 Hi, Thanks a lot for your suggestions. On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 12:58 +0000, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > 1. Evolution's spam filter is slow and not as efficient as that of > Thunderbird. Optimisation work in this area would be greatly appreciated. You need to train the spam filter for a few days to make it work effectively. This will help to develop the spam-detection-knowledge. There has been a discussion going on about letting the user choose SpamAssasin or Bogofilter. You can peek at the discussion on http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-hackers/2006-May/msg00062.html > 2. When importing a single mail file into Evolution, displaying a list of > files to select from shows the file name and the date but not the file size. > Displaying the file size would make it easier to determine which file is > which, if there are a large number to choose from. The file-open dialog used in Evolution is the gnome-wide GtkFileChooser. I believe that people hacking on it would have noted this discussion and will provide the ability to customize the columns in the dialog soon. > > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for > deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash > rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universal > repository for deleted data. I am not sure if this will be useful. If you have a remote account (IMAP/Exchange/GW) we are left with no choice other than keeping the deleted items in the server, so that they will be accesible everywhere. So they need to be on the Trash-folder on the accounts. And it will be confusing to have different Trash folder behaviors for local and remote Trash folders. > > 4. A mail preview so that incoming messages could be seen without switching > from other applications to Evolution all of the time would be appreciated. > Outlook 2003 has a function whereby a message momentarily pops-up on screen, > allowing the user to see the name of the sender and the subject line. Such a > pop-up may be annoying to some users; however, Google Desktop has an even > better solution whereby, in "Sidebar" mode, it displays a list of recent > mails on screen. Clicking on one allows it to be opened out and previewed. > >From there, clicking on it again opens the actual message in Outlook. A > similar mail preview system for GNOME would therefore result in people being > able to see new messages without constantly switching between applications > and also enable them to determine if a message was particularly important. *NOD* There needs to be a better new mail notification mechanism than the current BEEP or run-custom-program. This is already in the task list for the Evolution 2.8 release. (http://www.go-evolution.org/Mailer-2.8) Allowing the user to open/delete new mails without coming to the Evolution window. In the meanwhile you can try http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/garnome/geektoys/mail-notification/files/?only_with_tag=gnome-2-14 Your distro might ship with a new mail notification program already. You can ask for more details in your distro's forum. Sankar From mpt@myrealbox.com Sat Jun 24 03:22:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1243B0223 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29957-04 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leucothea.redline.site5.com (leucothea.redline.site5.com [216.118.97.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276F93B0360 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 203-173-178-53.bliink.ihug.co.nz ([203.173.178.53] helo=[10.1.1.5]) by leucothea.redline.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fu2T6-0006IN-Og; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Message-Id: <5f4833cdbee1bce1686a79531ed478a0@myrealbox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) From: Matthew Paul Thomas Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:22:21 +1200 To: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV. X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - leucothea.redline.site5.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - myrealbox.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.412 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.412 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:22:23 -0000 Hi Danni On Jun 20, 2006, at 12:57 PM, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > ... > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more=20 > logical for deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and=20= > go to system trash rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make=20= > system trash a universal repository for deleted data. That would be nifty, but the mail-specific Trash would still be useful=20= as a way of viewing only the deleted items that were e-mail messages. > ... > 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the=20= > user is entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only=20 > browser I know of with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has=20= > it.) > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images,=20= > the user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user=20= > wants to download multiple images from a page, without saving the=20 > whole thing. IT also seems, from the usability studies I have read=20 > online that new and inexperienced users have a reticence towards=20 > right-clicking. The various usability studies I have read by Sun and=20= > Novell seem to indicate that people often do not think to right-click=20= > to configure the clock or activate applets. Therefore, functions that=20= > are present in right-click menus only, such as that to save images in=20= > the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an entry to "Save=20= > All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. Or you could drag the image from the Web page onto your desktop or into=20= a folder, which works right now. (Granted, it doesn't work for images=20 that are inside links. But there are less obtrusive ways saving could=20 be provided for those too -- for example, the "Save As=85" button in the=20= Media tab of Firefox's Page Info window.) > 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I=20 > know that it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) =20 > because I can run it successfully under kppp. However, attempting to=20= > configure it under GNOME results in failure as it cannot be detected. =20= > This is annoying as, for one reason, it limits me from using a=20 > GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. kppp is a more than adequate=20= > workaround but it would be great for GNOME to also support these. I=20= > realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to broadband but in my=20 > (first-world) country there are still many home users with dial-up=20 > only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. Agreed -- the lack of easy-to-use dialup configuration makes Gnome much=20= less interesting for 22% of people online in the USA, 46% in China, 69%=20= in Australia, 70% in New Zealand, about 70% in India, and so on. > ... > 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the=20 > spatial mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the=20 > need for a file MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming,=20= > printing lists of directory structures and so on. > ... I can't think of any reason for these features not to be in Nautilus.=20 (You can already rename single items, just not in the way Windows and=20 Mac OS let you do it.) > ... > 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like=20= > the concept of circular menus mentioned here: > > http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html > ... =46rom what I've seen, circular menus don't scale to more than about 12=20= items, especially if they contain text. Cheers --=20 Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/= From gnome-desktop-devel-list@m.gmane.org Sat Jun 24 10:52:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C43C3B07F1 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20276-09 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355323B0402 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fu9Uv-0005Qs-Pm for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 Received: from sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.223.202]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 Received: from sdl.web by sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org From: Leon Subject: install applet server file without root Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:52:26 +0100 Lines: 14 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAEAAAAASCAMAAADc8SgQAAAAwFBMVEUCBQEJDAgTFRIaHBof IB4jJCIrLCotLywyNDE3OTY8Pjs/QD5FRkRJS0hRU1BWV1VbXVpiZGFnaWZrbWptb2xvcW52eHV5 enh+gH2Bg4CHiYaLjYqNj4yRk5CXmZaanJmdn5ygop+mqKWqrKmsrqutr6yxs7CztbK4ure7vbq/ wb7DxcLHycbJy8jNz8vQ0s/T1dLW2NXc3tvf4d7h5ODl5+Po6ufr7enu8O3x8/Dz9fL1+PT4+vf6 /Pn7/fr+//wGuxWtAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAALEwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH1gIaAyMw1+FInQAAAXxJ REFUOMulk+tygjAQhalFWodYvIwyiNUKA95QVLwQhLPv/1ZNAKWX8Yd6ZsLAZvdL9iQo9KSUx0v3 0wV/BjDSzZY6exxw0BJgrqaPApBtQeDK6eEdAGJ4DQhAZjFmWVZf798LmTUi6QGgmQCysHtfeWa1 OXITj8pMYrh9Vz03vmQbEuArMeETSZBPpIdKvMg9B2faL2NKgl3R/zZIuFZnjDW5bKGnrVfmROLk 5LhWqVmEbEcfu8u3+XD14YrvjeEsWRrlyj3QDN/To6u96VVJmkdO40AJAVU4ZQqfInWDhcpRSABi ZQ4MQYusPJ9KRSDhtgEclROBjQhGK8+hfMgdeMICSpGaRf6iU8kuiUzwnXdQ/BJleJ38/pnQ0yUJ g8JDbOxKbnlgtZDQ7Ql/GGzUxZnR7ngBxEHdCMP1rKOD/rVQhlY18aL5BMuczmncTmJnkF4AO9/3 PN9z3e3tW3uciodzFm58LcUCwWgS4drC39Vu3XsqbMu7/Zn8DYna+irHnqnQAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.0 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+0hFUCRQH6hd8ZYC5JEjXZlI6H8= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.593 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.593 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:52:39 -0000 Dear all, I am learning programming applets for gnome but it seems it requires root privilege to install and test applets. Seanni[1] has met the same issue but seems no one can answer. My question is how can a user (no root) install a .server file. Thank you all. Footnotes: [1] http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10650 -- Leon From reinouts@gnome.org Sat Jun 24 18:37:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E423B0094; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05211-10; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psmtp02.wxs.nl (psmtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.247.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57AC3B00DB; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from reinout.rotterdam-cs.com (ip5656924e.speed.planet.nl [86.86.146.78]) by psmtp02.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.02 (built Oct 21 2004)) with SMTP id <0J1D00E2UYSL68@psmtp02.wxs.nl>; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:36:28 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:39:02 +0200 From: Reinout van Schouwen Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, epiphany-list@gnome.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2 (This is not a psychotic episode. It's a cleansing moment of clarity.) References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> <20060622140525.GA1605@uwsworld.xs4all.nl> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:37:26 -0000 cc: epiphany-list On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200, Wouter Bolsterlee wrote: >> 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, >> the user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user > > I think not many people will use this feature. Therefore it's unlikely > that it will be implemented. To the contrary: someone has made a preliminary implementation of an Image Toolbar extension that shows a Save button when mousing over any image. However it was quite buggy and unfinished, so it now lingers somewhere in bugzilla... regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 00:09:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A193B02E4 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15859-06 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.207]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E163B0091 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so1472997nzh for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.47.19 with SMTP id u19mr4006827qbu; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:08:17 +0100 From: Who To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Nautilus Sidebar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.554 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.554 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 04:09:10 -0000 Hello List, A quick introduction before my main email: I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list about 5 months now... So, take my suggestions in the light of that description. Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is relevant to what the user is doing. See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in Nautilus that can display results from different engines. Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have any intentions to integrate into Nautilus I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related to this. Thanks in advance Who From glennji@gmail.com Sun Jun 25 08:18:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4B13B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12998-10 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.224]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15EC23B008C for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i12so909903wra for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.80.13 with SMTP id d13mr6295680wrb; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.99.17 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:17:45 +0100 From: "Glenn J. Mason" To: Who Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257" References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: glenn@glennji.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:18:41 -0000 ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type > specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The > idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is > relevant to what the user is doing. > > Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project > Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have > any intentions to integrate into Nautilus > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is the end of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. Was it just too much overhead on the system or something? Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]? It's a way to offer a similar thing in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions sidebar too? [1] http://www.grumz.net/index.php?q=taxonomy/term/2/9 -- Glenn J. Mason - "Glennji" Happy hacking! http://glennji.com/ ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type
specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The
idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is
relevant to what the user is doing.

Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project
Dashboard ( www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have
any intentions to integrate into Nautilus

Yeah, what happened to Dashboard?  The last update on the weblog is the end of 2003.  I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets.  Was it just too much overhead on the system or something?

Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]?  It's a way to offer a similar thing in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions sidebar too?

[1] http://www.grumz.net/index.php?q=taxonomy/term/2/9

--
Glenn J. Mason - "Glennji"
Happy hacking!
http://glennji.com/ ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257-- From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 08:38:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3553B00FE for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13730-08 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89CEE3B00D9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 34so1251591nzf for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.3.9 with SMTP id 9mr4129558qbc; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606250538l3f303826sce8eb515ee2c24fb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:38:06 +0100 From: Who To: glenn@glennji.com Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:38:10 -0000 On 6/25/06, Glenn J. Mason wrote: Snip my original message: > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is the end > of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", > like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. Was it just too much > overhead on the system or something? I have no 'inside information' but I remember reading that it's development was stalled in order to allow Beagle (which Dashboard will use a lot) to be completed. Beagle search that is cleverly targeted at the files currently selected in Nautilus is exactly the type of thing I was thinking about for the sidebar - providing 'Files edited at a similar time and of the same type as this' and 'Files containing the title of this document' - or even 'GAIM conversations about this' in the sidebar The idea would be that Beagle Search could be one engine for the sidebar - and many other things could be used along side it IF required > Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]? It's a way to offer a similar thing > in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions > sidebar too? I do use Nautilus actions - but I feel that it is not perfect because * It can only display static menu entries (as far as I know) - no query based items or previews or other things like that. * Having many options makes the menus too large/complicated and makes it harder to get to the other context menu functions * The need to right click makes it less intuitive for new users The link I sent mentioned having a Nautilus Actions engine for the sidebar design I am suggesting/asking about - I think it would be great :) Thanks for the feedback, Who From olafra@gmail.com Sun Jun 25 11:07:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48193B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18625-02 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.205]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7767F3B0097 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s1so1247426nze for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.4 with SMTP id y4mr6610751nzi; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.14.57 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:07:05 +0000 From: "Olafur Arason" To: Who Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853" References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.254 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.145, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.254 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:07:38 -0000 ------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more. Olafur Arason On 6/25/06, Who wrote: > > Hello List, > > A quick introduction before my main email: > I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I > write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux > programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am > keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work > and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI > design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list > about 5 months now... > > So, take my suggestions in the light of that description. > > Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type > specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The > idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is > relevant to what the user is doing. > > See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions > > There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding > very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in > Nautilus that can display results from different engines. > > > Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project > Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have > any intentions to integrate into Nautilus > > I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the > feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related > to this. > > Thanks in advance > > Who > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked
countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer
they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single
purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have
and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct
actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more.

Olafur Arason

On 6/25/06, Who <mailforwho@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hello List,

A quick introduction before my main email:
I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I
write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux
programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am
keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work
and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI
design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list
about 5 months now...

So, take my suggestions in the light of that description.

Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type
specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The
idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is
relevant to what the user is doing.

See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions

There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding
very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in
Nautilus that can display results from different engines.


Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project
Dashboard ( www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have
any intentions to integrate into Nautilus

I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the
feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related
to this.

Thanks in advance

Who
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------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853-- From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Sun Jun 25 11:13:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298513B00BB for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18789-08 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A3873B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.11] helo=salmon.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 25 Jun 2006 16:13:07 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:13:06 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: d2004@cosmopod.com Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Message-ID: References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.592 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.592 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:13:21 -0000 On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:44 -0700 > From: d2004@cosmopod.com > To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Subject: Suggestions from a User > > Dear GNOME Developers, > > I am an end-user wishing to supply some feedback/suggestions on > improving our Desktop Environment. For future reference it can be quite difficult to address all points of a long list so it might be best trying to stick to one or two points per mail (and I say that as someone who tries to be succint but I usually sending long verbose messages which dont get the best response). > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for > deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash > rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universal > repository for deleted data. If you are using Maildir the each individual message is already a seperate file but other implementations work quite differently. Very interesting idea but I wonder how difficult it might be to implent it. > 5. One feature I greatly miss from GEdit is a "block select" function to cut > and past "blocks" of mono-spaced text. KATE and gVIM have this functionality > and, even for non-programmers, it is extremely handy. > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, the Historically the two major browser manufacturers had other vested interests, Netscape in particular sold web server software and weren't exactly enthusiastic about tools which made it really easy for users to leech and scape content off the web (took forever before they added "Save Complete Web Page"). I put some effort into learning wget which makes it easier to scrape large batches of files from the internet but there should some graphical download tools out there to help too. I expect Epiphany might be interested in offering the feature you want but the risk might be if this feature ("save images only") didn't clutter things up and confuse users but maybe it would work out nicely. File a request in bugzilla, the Epiphany developers might be happy to add your suggestion (I wonder if it might be possible to create a firefox extension to do the same or if one already exists?) > it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather than > later. > 11. As that same message notes, DTP is a hole on Linux at the moment. Scribus is pretty good. I would much rather see infrastructure improved so QT and KDE applcations can integrate nicely into a GNOME desktop than anything else. Passepartout is an interesting application and it might be able to carve out a niche for basic publishing but it needs more developers (what project doesn't!). > Whilst there are a few good applications, such as Scribus and > KreetingKard, to appeal to two levels of developer, there are no > GTK-based equivalents to promote healthy competition. I've heard good things about Glabels. http://glabels.sourceforge.net/ > are rarely included on distributions. When more distributions switch to using a DVD (as opposed to CDs) as their primary format things might change and more software might be offered by default. > 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the spatial > mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the need for a file > MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming, printing lists of > directory structures and so on. Obviously such is readily done from within > the Shell but it would be great if a GNOME tool could do the same. The following bug report might be of interest: "rename multiple files at once" http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=306489 I wouldn't mind a tool which could take a look at all my downloads and allow me to sort them or set up filters as easily as I can do for incoming mail. A tool which was able to group files with common name patterns (or size, date, time, patterns) and then offer to sort them and put them in subfolders could be quite useful too. (A few years ago I vaguely recall looking at a tidy/cleanup tool which amongst other things would help you clear out empty unused folders but I doubt I'd be able to find it again.) > 13. For those managing small networks, it would be great to have > the /etc/MOTD file (Message of the Day) appear each time users log in. This question has been answered before, I believe they recommended some combination of Zenity and MOTD. > be handy. Obviously, an ability to disable it would be needed and it should > not be activated by default or it would be intrusive to those people with > single-user systems. (I should warn you this kind of thing sounds quite annoying and likely to be ignored by most users even if the intentions behind it are good.) > 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like the > concept of circular menus mentioned here: > http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html I've tried two drawing applications for windows, Alias Sketch and another very similar program called Artrage both of which make small use of circular menus and it can be quite useful. I wouldn't think it would suitable in most cases, best left to pen driven interfaces or applications which mostly use the mouse. > 15. My final request is a purely personal indulgence. It would be great to > have a GNOME chess game. With the Gnuchess engine available, I am surprised > no one has included a GTK-based GNOME game due to this pasttime's enduring > popularity, so I would like to lobby for this! Many chess games exist already and I believe there are a few GTK chess games if you go out and look for them. You wouldn't believe the work required to maintain Gnome games. > That is the sum of my input. I hope that at least some of my ideas are > helpful or generate constructive discussion. I look forward to your > feedback. I would have replied sooner but your message contained so many small points it took a very long time to respond to them. A few short points is often better, and taking your suggestions directly to the developers (of Nautilus, and Epiphany) is more likely to get relevant responses. > I am a newbie here, so do not be too cruel! I realise that soe of > these proposals would be huge work but they are simply ideas of things I > would like to see. -- Alan From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 11:48:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B823B008F for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19856-05 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.206]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7903B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so1532917nzh for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.115.18 with SMTP id s18mr5346240qbm; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606250847h690c57bl76f02034f0ba8e03@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:47:24 +0100 From: Who To: "Olafur Arason" Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.57 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:48:15 -0000 On 6/25/06, Olafur Arason wrote: > The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked > countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer > they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single > purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have > and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct > actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more. > > Olafur Arason > > I think that it failing to be noticed is a problem with the default configuratins, not with the tool itself. Perhaps we can think of some way to make it more discoverable - like a context menu item that says 'view more options in sidebar' when the sidebar isn't shown, does anyone have any other ideas? I fully agree that 'less is more' :) I think we want to provide really relevant actions/files/information. From johan@svedberg.com Sun Jun 25 17:53:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7563A3B01C9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04366-04 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.acc.umu.se (mail.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.156]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5753B00E9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id B664E5B for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: from suiko.acc.umu.se (suiko.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.162]) by mail.acc.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF174E for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: by suiko.acc.umu.se (Postfix, from userid 24225) id D4793803; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:45 +0200 From: Johan Svedberg To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: install applet server file without root Message-ID: <20060625235209.GA647bd.johan@svedberg.com> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at acc.umu.se X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:53:49 -0000 * Jun 24 16:53 Leon : > I am learning programming applets for gnome but it seems it requires > root privilege to install and test applets. Seanni[1] has met the same > issue but seems no one can answer. This is probably not the right place for this kind of questions. Don't know what is though. > My question is how can a user (no root) install a .server file. Thank > you all. You need to set BONOBO_ACTIVATION_PATH=/path/to/bonobo/servers -- Johan Svedberg, johan@svedberg.com, http://johan.svedberg.com/ From joeshaw@novell.com Tue Jun 27 10:10:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCBC3B013F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01576-09 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4E53B00F3 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26455 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2006 14:10:23 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?10.0.11.44?) (joe@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 27 Jun 2006 14:10:23 -0000 Subject: Re: Dashboard (was Nautilus Sidebar) From: Joe Shaw To: glenn@glennji.com In-Reply-To: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:08:41 -0400 Message-Id: <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.476 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2] X-Spam-Score: -2.476 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:10:56 -0000 Hi, On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 13:17 +0100, Glenn J. Mason wrote: > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is > the end of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information > display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. I actually just gave a talk about this yesterday at GUADEC. :) Dashboard was somewhat set aside while we developed Beagle. Dashboard is being revived as a Summer of Code project, though. Unfortunately there's not really any code to show yet. > Was it just too much overhead on the system or something? > It may be at some point, but we just didn't have enough applications instrumented at the time for this to be an issue. Joe From mailforwho@googlemail.com Tue Jun 27 11:32:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB943B009F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05536-10 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320263B0075 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f25so1888847pyf for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.37.18 with SMTP id p18mr7316061pyj; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606270831i5dd82a1bhef1c6bd07ac6adee@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:31:51 +0100 From: Who To: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Re: Dashboard (was Nautilus Sidebar) In-Reply-To: <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.581 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.581 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, glenn@glennji.com X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:32:26 -0000 On 6/27/06, Joe Shaw wrote: > I actually just gave a talk about this yesterday at GUADEC. :) > > Dashboard was somewhat set aside while we developed Beagle. Dashboard > is being revived as a Summer of Code project, though. Unfortunately > there's not really any code to show yet. > Are there any plans to put it in the Nautilus Sidebar, or for anything vaugely similar to the functionality described at http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions ? I'm still interested in hearing whether anyone thinks such an idea is possible, or worth doing :) Who From iaingnome@gmail.com Thu Jun 29 19:30:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276F13B00B5 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14918-06 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7D03B0095 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id z74so24973pyg for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.63.2 with SMTP id q2mr26810pyk; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.45.19 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35fafc140606291630y2f4f73d4nbcd9c0fa649ad3fc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:30:15 +0100 From: "Iain *" To: rah@rahga.com, "Desktop Development List" Subject: [PATCH]In death members of Project Mayhem have a name MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.365 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.365 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:30:17 -0000 ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi, My name is iain. I make patches. Here is one. I was playing Tali and noticed that my player is called "Human" by default. Attached is a patch that uses g_get_real_name so that I don't feel quite so generic when I play it. iain ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name=his-name-is-robert-polson.patch; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_ep1qym8l Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="his-name-is-robert-polson.patch" SW5kZXg6IGd0YWxpL2d5YWh0emVlLmMKPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQpSQ1MgZmlsZTogL2N2cy9nbm9tZS9n bm9tZS1nYW1lcy9ndGFsaS9neWFodHplZS5jLHYKcmV0cmlldmluZyByZXZpc2lvbiAxLjc5CmRp ZmYgLVUyIC1yMS43OSBneWFodHplZS5jCi0tLSBndGFsaS9neWFodHplZS5jCTExIEFwciAyMDA2 IDA5OjQyOjA4IC0wMDAwCTEuNzkKKysrIGd0YWxpL2d5YWh0emVlLmMJMjkgSnVuIDIwMDYgMjM6 MjE6NTggLTAwMDAKQEAgLTc2MCw3ICs3NjAsMTggQEAKIAogICAgICAgICBmb3IgKGkgPSAwOyBp IDwgTUFYX05VTUJFUl9PRl9QTEFZRVJTICYmIG5hbWVfbGlzdDsgaSsrKSB7Ci0gICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgaWYgKG5hbWVfbGlzdC0+ZGF0YSkKLSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHBsYXll cnNbaV0ubmFtZSA9IGdfc3RyZHVwIChuYW1lX2xpc3QtPmRhdGEpOwotICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IAorICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGlmIChuYW1lX2xpc3QtPmRhdGEpIHsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIGlmIChzdHJjYXNlY21wIChuYW1lX2xpc3QtPmRhdGEsIF8oIkh1bWFuIikpID09 IDApIHsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgY2hhciAqcmVhbG5hbWU7CisK KyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLyogT2xkIGRhdGE6IFVwZGF0ZSAqLwor ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICByZWFsbmFtZSA9IGdfc3RyZHVwIChnX2dl dF9yZWFsX25hbWUgKCkpOworICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBnX3N0cmRl bGltaXQgKHJlYWxuYW1lLCAiICIsICdcMCcpOworICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgcGxheWVyc1tpXS5uYW1lID0g cmVhbG5hbWU7CisgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB9IGVsc2UgeworICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBwbGF5ZXJzW2ldLm5hbWUgPSBnX3N0cmR1cCAobmFtZV9saXN0 LT5kYXRhKTsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIH0KKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB9CisK ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBuYW1lX2xpc3QgPSBnX3NsaXN0X25leHQgKG5hbWVfbGlzdCk7CiAg ICAgICAgIH0KSW5kZXg6IGd0YWxpL3lhaHR6ZWUuYwo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09ClJDUyBmaWxlOiAvY3Zz L2dub21lL2dub21lLWdhbWVzL2d0YWxpL3lhaHR6ZWUuYyx2CnJldHJpZXZpbmcgcmV2aXNpb24g MS4yNApkaWZmIC1VMiAtcjEuMjQgeWFodHplZS5jCi0tLSBndGFsaS95YWh0emVlLmMJMjkgTWFy IDIwMDYgMDk6MjM6MDkgLTAwMDAJMS4yNAorKysgZ3RhbGkveWFodHplZS5jCTI5IEp1biAyMDA2 IDIzOjIxOjU4IC0wMDAwCkBAIC0zNSw0ICszNSw3IEBACiAKICNpbmNsdWRlIDxjb25maWcuaD4K KworI2luY2x1ZGUgPGdsaWIuaD4KKwogI2luY2x1ZGUgInlhaHR6ZWUuaCIKIApAQCAtNTgsNSAr NjEsNSBAQAogaW50IERpc3BsYXlDb21wdXRlclRob3VnaHRzID0gMDsKIGludCBDdXJyZW50UGxh eWVyOwotY2hhciAqRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW01BWF9OVU1CRVJfT0ZfUExBWUVSU10gPSB7 IE5fKCJIdW1hbiIpLAorY2hhciAqRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW01BWF9OVU1CRVJfT0ZfUExB WUVSU10gPSB7IE5VTEwsCiAJCQkJCQkgICAgIldpbGJlciIsCiAJCQkJCQkgICAgIkJpbGwiLApA QCAtMTE0LDUgKzExNywxNCBAQAogCiAJZm9yIChpID0gMDsgaSA8IE1BWF9OVU1CRVJfT0ZfUExB WUVSUzsgKytpKSB7Ci0JCXBsYXllcnNbaV0ubmFtZSA9IF8oRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW2ld KTsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBpZiAoRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW2ldID09IE5VTEwpIHsK KyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGNoYXIgKnJlYWxuYW1lOworCisgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICByZWFsbmFtZSA9IGdfc3RyZHVwIChnX2dldF9yZWFsX25hbWUgKCkpOworICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgZ19zdHJkZWxpbWl0IChyZWFsbmFtZSwgIiAiLCAnXDAnKTsK KyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIAorICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgcGxheWVy c1tpXS5uYW1lID0gcmVhbG5hbWU7CisgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgfSBlbHNlIHsKKyAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHBsYXllcnNbaV0ubmFtZSA9IF8oRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW2ld KTsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB9CiAJCXBsYXllcnNbaV0uY29tcCA9IDE7CiAgICAgICAgIH0K ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489-- From iaingnome@gmail.com Fri Jun 2 19:59:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869683B047B for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32453-07 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.171]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C303B0B7F for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so671871uge for ; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=H1Ne4pKCRfVg5XCcNJOijkcp7kgP1jOGUnyBKNo10St1vW+TR/MaRL7mfp1YpYzR1ww/NPnbYtsozd5iHD4rZARvJpfeKJTDMoj1OiZ82HIA7f1V2ALUOqt8hjbt5qmawaaJxKaaz7JPIkDezWuiAq/zP6/mFLIkg2if+G0X7z0= Received: by 10.67.89.6 with SMTP id r6mr1253688ugl; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.245.8 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 00:59:23 +0100 From: "Iain *" To: "Desktop Development List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.888 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077, TW_RG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -0.888 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 23:59:26 -0000 ------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hi Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a maintainer these days? First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use this new system The patch is here: http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch and is also attached. lots of love iain ------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name=gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_enz77jd7 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch" SW5kZXg6IENoYW5nZUxvZwo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09ClJDUyBmaWxlOiAvY3ZzL2dub21lL2dub21lLXRl cm1pbmFsL0NoYW5nZUxvZyx2CnJldHJpZXZpbmcgcmV2aXNpb24gMS41NTUKZGlmZiAtVTIgLXIx LjU1NSBDaGFuZ2VMb2cKLS0tIENoYW5nZUxvZwkxNyBNYXkgMjAwNiAyMjoxMDowNCAtMDAwMAkx LjU1NQorKysgQ2hhbmdlTG9nCTIgSnVuIDIwMDYgMjM6MTk6MjIgLTAwMDAKQEAgLTEsMiArMSwx MiBAQAorMjAwNi0wNi0wMiAgSWFpbiBIb2xtZXMgIDxpYWluQGdub21lLm9yZz4KKworCSogc3Jj 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------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065-- From lucasr.at.mundo@gmail.com Sat Jun 3 06:15:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D02B3B04F5 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28056-04 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 326E13B0622 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so758994uge for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=be0ykkhnR+WInlr9zJKJ3Eg2z7QkHBPz/mS2UJdtwVZO5Za3jb8unUjjkVfETZAFRWc39WiZRaWUuPoblhjjhvWzgk517bpMwWIUwugErS7qPPHUitDvugxhhvQjbrj0ByMDtIeDvOj5b4ClEA+rvsnZIwwpbWAJiAWEZKN3rJk= Received: by 10.67.97.7 with SMTP id z7mr1557650ugl; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.32.17 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31a62e6f0606030315i5794061fx3afda4bd5a1d3599@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 07:15:02 -0300 From: "Lucas Rocha" To: "Desktop Development List" In-Reply-To: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.254 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.346, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.254 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 10:15:10 -0000 Hi Iain, AFAIK (and acoording to the MAINTAINERS file), gnome-terminal is maintained by Guilherme Pastore (aka fatalerror). I suggest you to file a bug and try to meet him on IRC. Behdad has been doing some stuff on this module too. p eace --lucasr 2006/6/2, Iain * : > hi > > Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a > maintainer these days? > > First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked > fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that > stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. > > Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program > instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus > pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use > this new system > > The patch is here: > http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch > and is also attached. > > lots of love > iain > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > > > From kalle.vahlman@gmail.com Sat Jun 3 11:21:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042763B067E for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11829-06 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210563B06CA for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so807287uge for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RsVv8gkP8m9sF8YRGPObFNgPMrFZhMxg2dj1ZuUMrD/5o3bHyLSTTVDdZvcK3l+E2oHXnO9ff2Wi4ktD4/8E4YcMxVkQUaO61hgwEWINDBbCHofhSfsE8DhkXjEtpiaL2S8cJXm+bDOAm+8d2uauZESHawvURG0Ft0YGVX8pnT8= Received: by 10.67.103.7 with SMTP id f7mr1758517ugm; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.16.10 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <177e83dd0606030821n5c774ad3p127dd3a6675e82e1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 18:21:27 +0300 From: "Kalle Vahlman" To: "Iain *" In-Reply-To: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.49 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.448, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.49 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Desktop Development List Subject: Re: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: zuh@iki.fi List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:21:32 -0000 2006/6/3, Iain * : > hi > > Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a > maintainer these days? > > First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked > fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that > stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. > > Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program > instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus > pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use > this new system Very cool. Seems to launch way faster than bonobo version too after a quick test :) (though that might be 2.14.1 vs CVS too I guess) > The patch is here: > http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch > and is also attached. > > lots of love to > iain ;) -- Kalle Vahlman, zuh@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Sun Jun 4 15:26:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4B93B016C for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06133-05 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.192.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 002C43B02A5 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060604192622m1200nk46be>; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:26:23 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Gnome Desktop Development List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:26:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.641 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.332, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.641 X-Spam-Level: Subject: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 19:26:25 -0000 A common [fatal] error reported by a number of applications in the 2.15.x branch is: Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to open file '': No such file or directory GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed aborting... Questions: * Is there a simple work around? It is difficult to test 2.15.x with this error in place. * Any chance that this problem will be resolved any time soon? I have seen this problem in 2.15.0, 2.15.1, and 2.15.2. -Joseph -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From bjourne@gmail.com Sun Jun 4 16:21:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F543B01AC for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08773-06 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDA63B0101 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1042692wxd for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Hb49BjoqweARg0w5t1fwubOAcbRHt6rtJiiTAWtgSnZ3+F4OH33pOXhARWn3vwVWy6kqDi2iOKnFZPw2JKR3C8qvwy+eTYvI1Bzb+s1h+rA2KDJCI0VUUB+mCT9l7yayiKg8drLRqVlj8TiHujImfISlEdqio6Ue36336uFqRuQ= Received: by 10.70.49.6 with SMTP id w6mr5252855wxw; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.10 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 22:21:29 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.421 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_MV=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.421 X-Spam-Level: Subject: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 20:21:31 -0000 Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very much prefer svn instead of cvs. --=20 mvh Bj=F6rn Lindqvist From as583@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sun Jun 4 16:27:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99653B01AC for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09042-03 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.139]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5B63B016C for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from as583.emma.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.248.113]:34970) by ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.159]:587) with esmtpsa (PLAIN:as583) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1FmzBj-0002Xc-UQ (Exim 4.54) (return-path ); Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:27:07 +0100 Message-ID: <448341FB.80605@gnome.org> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:26:35 +0100 From: Andrew Sobala User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?= References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Andrew Sobala X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.509 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.064, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.509 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 20:27:14 -0000 BJörn Lindqvist wrote: > Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to > Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have > been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the > switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very > much prefer svn instead of cvs. Discussion happened on gnome-hackers; new date is 14th July. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2006-June -- Andrew From newren@gmail.com Sun Jun 4 19:03:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66DAD3B00D0 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17079-09 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058B23B0288 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1057642wxd for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=R7GruRgIZLPAkXceJSqXQP+VWzvqThkkwX1ScM7kmw6txaFHhFEDUh6fp+rn3fJbD3OMAOnM6VZg2F7S8zQoQhquZshi9t9n9+jYYDE3fF3bF4nmR8wXjRXQh2RN4yh37VhpDUzhpTZA3m8q5l8sf+E21p5FuEDO6fPqMOCRAvc= Received: by 10.70.117.16 with SMTP id p16mr5361597wxc; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.7 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 17:03:50 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" In-Reply-To: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 23:03:53 -0000 On 6/4/06, BJ=F6rn Lindqvist wrote: > Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to > Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have > been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the > switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very > much prefer svn instead of cvs. Looks like we failed somewhere to get the word out about devel-announce-list widely enough. It's a very low volume list meant for important announcements. Granted, as aes mentioned, the general discussion happened on gnome-hackers but for those who'd prefer to just get the big announcements, the postponement[1] and new date[2] of the SVN migration were both announced to devel-announce-list. [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-March/msg00003.= html [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-May/msg00004.ht= ml From bjourne@gmail.com Mon Jun 5 05:52:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1BB3B00CE for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20033-02 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C378C3B031D for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1128508wxd for ; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=VMrV0zJYnZc0fD1VxiFU6iO0HMwOvUJii7CeNIne4sN/1ca5a5eoNh7bFx9Z9ad8xJbjVO+NDr5x2X/KgqpPy2/+pgcWkzKWJESg+2cqYe7VN2Po3B9AQ2FjyxKxudGZSGX3JmBq/AYm2grwUUdOPY1cV9xw77N9zClfsOn0AR4= Received: by 10.70.49.6 with SMTP id w6mr5849501wxw; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.10 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 02:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <740c3aec0606050252h780f6f63nb417e174eab1882f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:52:42 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 09:52:47 -0000 > Looks like we failed somewhere to get the word out about > devel-announce-list widely enough. It's a very low volume list meant > for important announcements. Granted, as aes mentioned, the general > discussion happened on gnome-hackers but for those who'd prefer to > just get the big announcements, the postponement[1] and new date[2] of > the SVN migration were both announced to devel-announce-list. > > [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-March/msg0000= 3.html > [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-May/msg00004.= html Then I'm very sorry to have been bothering the wrong list unnecessary. /me goes and subscribes to yet another mailing list The new Subversion migration date is fantastic news though. --=20 mvh Bj=F6rn From William.Walker@Sun.COM Tue Jun 6 10:21:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A26B3B0182 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28117-01 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C373B0A96 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k56ELg6m000827 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0F00501ZP9UE00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.11] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0F002B2ZW4FRQ0@mail-amer.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:21:38 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-id: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.586 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.586 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:21:48 -0000 Hi All: We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would like to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal to include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the missing features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also done a fair amount of stability and testing work. We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of Gnopernicus: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to address the issues that arise. Thanks! Will (Orca project lead) From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 6 21:02:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198963B02E8 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01166-08 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.206]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD9E3B0119 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so95533wxd for ; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=uMjiD2UneBstxGvHvDUjCg20B/AKOA7TrAPOlIojwLeWRAYoc8aPUZKa86K9RbBmkohVgwdRxv0WpgmxKGK/wNrfrNiB5s59ipLN64fkMZtn1R93/tdqgaWAKEH0mEqq5FOAXfvdnCNTH04zG4woQnpwJUJEFV6sGQHcZuJp1GI= Received: by 10.70.33.8 with SMTP id g8mr307306wxg; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.7 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606061802o2e6a876br82818f1864d6f50c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:02:22 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Willie Walker" In-Reply-To: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.572 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.572 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:02:26 -0000 On 6/6/06, Willie Walker wrote: > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > Gnopernicus: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html That email pretty much looks like the clincher to me; it looks to me like it resolves the only big issue I remember anyone bringing up. > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > address the issues that arise. Thanks for your awesome work. We've kind of sucked at getting the proposed modules all listed. Could you go to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Desktop and add orca (and, if you have time, the other proposed modules)? We should start getting those into the modulesets going out with releases and doing a better job of verifying the build and so forth (though I'm betting GARNOME is ahead in the game and has them included, which would be cool). As per the schedule at http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen, the "Module inclusion discussion heats up" on the week of July 12th. I can't imagine why orca wouldn't make it at this point, as it looks like you've already addressed any potential issues that could come up. But if you want to be on the safe side, just watch your d-d-l email that week and if any additional issues about orca are brought up you can address them. Hope that helps, Elijah From fcrozat@mandriva.com Wed Jun 7 11:02:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0503B0272 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22929-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office.mandriva.com (ezoffice.mandriva.com [84.14.106.134]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D433C3B0127 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trinidad.mandrakesoft.com (trinidad.mandrakesoft.com [192.168.100.216]) by office.mandriva.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4FA531 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:02:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Frederic Crozat To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Mandriva Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:02:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3-10mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:02:44 -0000 Le dimanche 04 juin 2006 à 15:26 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. a écrit : > A common [fatal] error reported by a number of applications in the > 2.15.x branch is: > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > open file '': No such file or directory > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > (object)' failed > aborting... > > Questions: > > * Is there a simple work around? > It is difficult to test 2.15.x with this error in place. > > * Any chance that this problem will be resolved any time soon? > I have seen this problem in 2.15.0, 2.15.1, and 2.15.2. You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 -- Frederic Crozat Mandriva From federico@ximian.com Wed Jun 7 12:58:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348273B0461 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31312-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B5A3B04FC for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17019 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2006 16:58:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO 164-99-120-35.boston.ximian.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2006 16:58:49 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: Frederic Crozat In-Reply-To: <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 11:54:38 -0500 Message-Id: <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:58:53 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > (object)' failed > > aborting... > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when builddir == srcdir. Federico From fcrozat@mandriva.com Wed Jun 7 13:03:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857CE3B0502 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31466-08 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office.mandriva.com (ezoffice.mandriva.com [84.14.106.134]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039683B02D9 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trinidad.mandrakesoft.com (trinidad.mandrakesoft.com [192.168.100.216]) by office.mandriva.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCABD531 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 19:03:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Frederic Crozat To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Mandriva Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:03:31 +0200 Message-Id: <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3-10mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.57 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:03:35 -0000 Le mercredi 07 juin 2006 à 11:54 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero a écrit : > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > > (object)' failed > > > aborting... > > > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 > > It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when > builddir == srcdir. Easy workaround : rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h and rebuild : tarball was shipped with an incomplete gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h file. -- Frederic Crozat Mandriva From Matt.Keenan@Sun.COM Wed Jun 7 13:26:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FB33B047D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00550-01 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F703B006D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k57HQTEv011828 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:26:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J0I00H0130ZXK@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Matt.Keenan@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:26:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.150.120.79] (vpn-129-150-120-79.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.120.79]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0J0I00AG1344JB@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:26:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:26:27 +0100 From: Matt Keenan To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-id: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060119) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:26:32 -0000 Hi, What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME community ? Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is this something that people see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better solution ? As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the moment we really would like to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the preferred format is a necessity. Cheers Matt From ross@burtonini.com Wed Jun 7 13:43:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690793B045D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01751-03 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B766B3B02BA for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from burtonini.com (althur.gotadsl.co.uk [84.12.135.175]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B06EA33500E; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:37:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (ident=unknown) by burtonini.com with esmtp (masqmail 0.2.21) id 1Fo1yK-86I-00; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:37:36 +0100 From: Ross Burton To: Matt Keenan In-Reply-To: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> References: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d" Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:37:35 +0100 Message-Id: <1149701855.8920.49.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:43:03 -0000 --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 19:26 +0100, Matt Keenan wrote: > Hi, >=20 > What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME communit= y ? >=20 > Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is=20 > this something that people > see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better=20 > solution ? >=20 > As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the=20 > moment we really would like > to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the=20 > preferred format is a > necessity. I'd say that Docbook would make a good master source, as the user guide is also written in docbook. Ross --=20 Ross Burton mail: ross@burtonini.com jabber: ross@burtonini.com www: http://www.burtonini.com./ PGP Fingerprint: 1A21 F5B0 D8D0 CFE3 81D4 E25A 2D09 E447 D0B4 33DF --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBEhw7fLQnkR9C0M98RAlH3AJ9SQGc/4xzkv/EMKc5nfQ4m9N0eawCgxL6G y/1LhGBSG7RTJhB6hFhSdBQ= =tJHS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d-- From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Wed Jun 7 14:05:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F2D3B0DCF for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03337-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B5743B0E23 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060607180513m1200pab1je>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:05:13 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:05:12 -0400 Message-Id: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.645 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.336, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.645 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:05:22 -0000 I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h * build * install The bad news is I still see the error. -Joseph =========================================================================== On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 19:03 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > Le mercredi 07 juin 2006 à 11:54 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero a écrit : > > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > > > (object)' failed > > > > aborting... > > > > > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > > > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 > > > > It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when > > builddir == srcdir. > > Easy workaround : rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h and rebuild : tarball was > shipped with an incomplete gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h file. > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From federico@ximian.com Wed Jun 7 14:42:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CB43B069F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05780-02 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178E63B0DB6 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17247 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2006 18:42:01 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO 164-99-120-35.boston.ximian.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2006 18:42:01 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:37:51 -0500 Message-Id: <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.536 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_XV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.536 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:42:04 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: > > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > * build > * install > > The bad news is I still see the error. You may need to 1. tar xvf gtk.tar.gz 2. configure; make 3. rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h 4. make 5. make install I.e. let it build, then remove the header file, then build again. Federico From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Wed Jun 7 14:47:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8E73B0E0B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06186-03 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (unknown [216.148.227.155]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4878F3B0E45 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20060607184711m15001vu4je>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:47:12 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Federico Mena Quintero In-Reply-To: <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:47:10 -0400 Message-Id: <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.608 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.376, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, TW_XV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -0.608 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:47:14 -0000 I have a sense of humor. I will give that a try. For what it's worth... Fedora/rawhide [PPC: updated daily] does not have this problem. I have expended a number of cycles examining their src RPMs, looking for the magic patch that has not yet made it upstream. Didn't find a thing. -Joseph ================================================================== On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 13:37 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: > > > > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > > * build > > * install > > > > The bad news is I still see the error. > > You may need to > > 1. tar xvf gtk.tar.gz > 2. configure; make > 3. rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > 4. make > 5. make install > > I.e. let it build, then remove the header file, then build again. > > Federico > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From j@bitron.ch Wed Jun 7 14:51:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F443B069F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06395-02 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpanel02.rubas.net (cpanel02.rubas.net [62.216.182.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9B63B050C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 80-219-211-5.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.219.211.5] helo=[192.168.1.33]) by cpanel02.rubas.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fo37q-0007ap-TH; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:51:31 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrg?= Billeter To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:52:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel02.rubas.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - bitron.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.524 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.524 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:51:48 -0000 On Mit, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: >=20 > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > * build > * install >=20 > The bad news is I still see the error.=20 Should be fixed in CVS http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/Makefile.am?r1=3D1.309&r2=3D1.310 The patch applies to Makefile.in in the 2.9.2 tarball, too. J=C3=BCrg From matthias.clasen@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 16:30:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E6A3B00C7 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12519-04 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.204]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320F03B015D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 8so229327nzo for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:30:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=LYjL12EdChuw+lZQqGKA1cluImN0sNHjc01h7M8DGB+xDSg+wAumrDC8qg7n22LA/lC/uigEi4+t5IqDUuFSmksedxwnbaDjdRgoGguMEAsbS5PB9A6xS/kmGa5JyyVHxmWZXO5FxfTVWGLv4KceoGK0Z1/cNSLdk/Ro9eJn08U= Received: by 10.37.2.14 with SMTP id e14mr1202727nzi; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.14 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:23:57 -0400 From: "Matthias Clasen" To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.508 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.092, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.508 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Federico Mena Quintero , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:30:17 -0000 On 6/7/06, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I have a sense of humor. I will give that a try. > > For what it's worth... Fedora/rawhide [PPC: updated daily] does not have > this problem. I have expended a number of cycles examining their src > RPMs, looking for the magic patch that has not yet made it upstream. > Didn't find a thing. > I didn't fix it in 2.9.2-3, I worked around it by dumping in a correct gtkbuiltincache.h after unpacking the tarball (look for SOURCE2) Matthias From matthias.clasen@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 17:43:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF013B062C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17008-09 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820093B0CA4 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so306896nzo for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=d+WFIAUU5OYshLt/IV/hRwTCOUzbrliGiCWI9t7E5m8mUfO5PB8UcfRVB6ZzKpXTvLIWf1aPeQ2SRftAAEeAodIgYJj6gy3hqZrARMmMa4m9m/dEEg0HMuHwnt1d4ue6VI+jhy4eMqhjRBqUklfQl2VSUy8zwfpgpm7JME0IY+o= Received: by 10.36.121.19 with SMTP id t19mr1310096nzc; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.14 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:07 -0400 From: "Matthias Clasen" To: "Matt Keenan" In-Reply-To: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.47 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.47 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 21:43:11 -0000 On 6/7/06, Matt Keenan wrote: > Hi, > > What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME community ? > > Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is > this something that people > see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better > solution ? > > As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the > moment we really would like > to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the > preferred format is a > necessity. > The few man pages that are shipped with the glib and gtk api docs are in docbook now, which has the advantage that we can easily include them in the api docs, too. Matthias From federico@ximian.com Thu Jun 8 21:30:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACED93B04DB for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18212-01 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043353B0E3D for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19069 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2006 01:30:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?164.99.120.169?) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Jun 2006 01:30:03 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrg?= Billeter In-Reply-To: <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 20:25:50 -0500 Message-Id: <1149816350.30645.108.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 01:30:09 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 20:52 +0200, Jürg Billeter wrote: > Should be fixed in CVS > > http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/Makefile.am?r1=1.309&r2=1.310 Excellent catch, like swatting flies with a whip. Thanks for the fix :) Federico From frandavid100@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 09:51:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61263B0423 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18107-06 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214C53B0229 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so301601uge for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=MDFIZQJpAQibpDfJtY5XAuqiQNe2+Fhc5gvr2qEhTEJuP+sClW+mqb7679oTHoDc00/RZxajkdJTWDwv8wW6EiY+Yjzlcq+PjsOsXMSMxaclaW/V9ZnuTDcAG7wX6lKocTAaZhXBLV0E6kkOOnsnBnKcG3rgLWAm8SY1pGymIgQ= Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id u9mr530800ugg; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.103? ( [84.123.96.251]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id q40sm998482ugc.2006.06.07.06.51.49; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:49 -0700 (PDT) From: David Prieto To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:47 +0200 Message-Id: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 06:37:00 -0400 Subject: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:51:54 -0000 Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it goes: First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run these programs together. As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, internet, epiphany. It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea (middle-click), epiphany. What do you think about it? Here's the original post: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/48788 From johan@svedberg.com Fri Jun 9 06:54:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC263B0121 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16742-01 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.acc.umu.se (mail.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.156]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9A33B0004 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF6652 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from suiko.acc.umu.se (suiko.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.162]) by mail.acc.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C3327 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: by suiko.acc.umu.se (Postfix, from userid 24225) id A174C803; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 From: Johan Svedberg To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at acc.umu.se X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:54:38 -0000 * Jun 09 12:37 David Prieto : > Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it > goes: > > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my > e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run > these programs together. > > As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, > internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, > internet, epiphany. > > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? You could ofcourse create desktop shortcuts or panel launchers for the applications you use most frequently. But I like the idea, another alternative might be to add a "Run application" in the right-click menu. -- Johan Svedberg, johan@svedberg.com, http://johan.svedberg.com/ From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Fri Jun 9 06:54:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05FBD3B1041 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16715-02 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B24F3B0121 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-05.sun.com (d1-emea-05.sun.com [192.18.2.115] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k59Asee9009449 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:54:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-05.sun.com by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0L00K019O99Q00@d1-emea-05.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from dhcp-226-200.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.226.200]) by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0L00J4MAB3EQ10@d1-emea-05.sun.com>; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:35 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: David Prieto Message-id: <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Organization: Sun Microsystems Ireland Ltd. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.583 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.583 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:54:46 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51 +0200, David Prieto wrote: > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse button, as not everyone has one. In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are always run when you log in? Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From jan@jgc.homeip.net Fri Jun 9 07:52:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94903B1073 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20462-09 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.fastline.no (mx2.fastline.no [82.134.2.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698923B01A7 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) X-SMTP-Auth: no Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.fastline.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1B6A00041F for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx2.fastline.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx2.fastline.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 10287-01-2 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xciton-pc2 (a80-126-167-165.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.126.167.165]) by mx2.fastline.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0ECBA000409 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Jan de Groot To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:52:29 +0200 Message-Id: <1149853949.4427.0.camel@xciton-pc2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.3.2 (20050629) (Debian) at mx2.fastline.no X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.578 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.578 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:52:28 -0000 On Fri, 2006-06-09 at 12:54 +0200, Johan Svedberg wrote: > You could ofcourse create desktop shortcuts or panel launchers for the > applications you use most frequently. But I like the idea, another > alternative might be to add a "Run application" in the right-click > menu. That, together with the middle click, just like the "open link in new tab" feature in most browsers. From ktirf@users.sf.net Fri Jun 9 09:30:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1DD63B031E for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27240-08 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from delta.deserv.net (delta.deserv.net [83.102.151.66]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A0293B0003 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.119.253.205] (helo=[10.232.104.122]) by delta.deserv.net with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Foh4a-0003JR-0k for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:30:48 +0400 Message-ID: <448977EC.3040905@users.sf.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:30:20 +0400 From: Alexey Rusakov User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-Id: ktirf@nale.ru X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.503 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.503 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:30:30 -0000 Calum Benson wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51 +0200, David Prieto wrote: > > >> It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch >> the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click >> applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea >> (middle-click), epiphany. >> >> What do you think about it? >> > > I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you > shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse > button, as not everyone has one. > What about Ctrl-LeftClick and Ctrl-Enter as alternatives? Anyway, ... > In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit > better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding > three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all > three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are > always run when you log in? > ... this is a good question :) -- Alexey "Ktirf" Rusakov From xavier.bestel@free.fr Fri Jun 9 11:52:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BFFF3B024A for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03877-05 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp13.wanadoo.fr (smtp13.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E543B026D for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from awak.dyndns.org (AGrenoble-152-1-21-70.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr [82.122.20.70]) by mwinf1304.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1F9B6700008B for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:52:32 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060609155232129.1F9B6700008B@mwinf1304.orange.fr Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=capoeira ident=stunnel4) by awak.dyndns.org with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1FojIE-0000uL-00; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:53:02 +0200 From: Xavier Bestel To: David Prieto In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:52:28 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.283 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.283 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 15:52:35 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51, David Prieto wrote: [...] > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your multiselections. Not that I advise using several mouse buttons at once. Xav From mpt@myrealbox.com Fri Jun 9 13:28:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1EA3B0268 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09915-07 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leucothea.redline.site5.com (leucothea.redline.site5.com [216.118.97.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827E73B011B for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ool-44c0bc13.dyn.optonline.net ([68.192.188.19] helo=[192.168.0.5]) by leucothea.redline.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fokm3-000296-RA; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:27:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <2873c7c3e7a66e8562d38938161412e1@myrealbox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Matthew Paul Thomas Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:26:46 -0400 To: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV. X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - leucothea.redline.site5.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - myrealbox.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:28:03 -0000 On Jun 7, 2006, at 9:51 AM, David Prieto wrote: > ... > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read > my e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually > run these programs together. You can set these programs to run automatically when you log in, using the "Startup Programs" tab of the "Sessions" preferences. (This could be much more obvious than it is, for example by giving the control panel a name better than "Sessions".) You can also add the programs to the panel at the top/bottom of the screen by clicking on an empty part of it (if there is one) with the right mouse button (if you have one) and choosing "Add to Panel...". (Again, this could be much more obvious than it is. For example, it should show up when you search the help for "how can I start programs quickly".) -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ From frandavid100@gmail.com Fri Jun 9 15:04:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74B83B00E9 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14795-04 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF323B009F for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so598739nfe for ; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=TDtsoF1S0IXExUOckOSPJ6L4SnxSBbw786CXC1ndr+VxKZgYeje5qx7P11UN3LkGDhYHCfV80q30mhUWDoV3egDP2esip+uQBLnrkcBHjtfwFaTgR/FrNj292b5eejPlWanVL+zj76zZQv61da7Nof8Kkt3xt0+Bxr8klD22wWQ= Received: by 10.48.238.9 with SMTP id l9mr2640423nfh; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.103? ( [84.123.96.251]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id l21sm1702180nfc.2006.06.09.12.04.43; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: David Prieto To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 21:03:36 +0200 Message-Id: <1149879816.5224.2.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 19:04:47 -0000 I'm sorry, I replied to Calum instead of sending my mail to the list: _____________________________________________________________________ > I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you > shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse > button, as not everyone has one. Well, in Nautilus for example you can open a folder while closing its folder if you double-click on it with your middle button OR if you double-shift+left-click. Why not do the same here? Users without a middle button could just use shift+left-click as a replacement. > In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit > better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding > three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all > three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are > always run when you log in? Well, those are quite subjective reasons but I don't like launchers on the panel, aesthetically. Besides, I use only one panel and space is scarce on it. Creating a launcher for all three programs would not be very useful since I could want to launch just two of them (epi could be already open), or I could want to launch amule too. It's just not flexible. About setting them to launch when logging in, I already said it in my first message: I could just be somewhere else and yet be logged in, maybe because amule is running. Then I could get to the computer and want to read the forums, get my mails... you get the point. I know my reasons could be minor for some, but well, they're good for me. From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Sun Jun 11 05:05:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580113B00DC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30987-09 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DC093B0092 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.11] helo=salmon.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 11 Jun 2006 10:03:54 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:03:53 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: David Prieto In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.592 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.592 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:05:07 -0000 On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, David Prieto wrote: > Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:47 +0200 > From: David Prieto > To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Subject: opening a program with the middle button > > Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it > goes: > > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my > e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run > these programs together. > > As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, > internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, > internet, epiphany. > > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? Mozilla allows you to bookmark groups and open several pages at once. Perhaps we need a way to create a launcher which launches more than one program? (I guess you could do that using a script.) Alternatively you could either set those programs to automatically start every session, or more easily save your session on logout so it comes back up the same when you login. I've done similar things this way in the past. -- Alan H. From sri@aracnet.com Sun Jun 11 11:44:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251F43B0125 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16813-02 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B6B3B008B for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-21-239-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.239.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5BFgSHT018681; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:42:29 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Willie Walker In-Reply-To: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:41:41 -0700 Message-Id: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.339 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.049, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.339 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sri@aracnet.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:44:49 -0000 So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? sri [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it seems kind of early to me. On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:21 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > Hi All: > > We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would like > to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal to > include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the missing > features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also done a > fair amount of stability and testing work. > > We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on > orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html > > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > Gnopernicus: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html > > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > address the issues that arise. > > Thanks! > > Will > (Orca project lead) > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Sri Ramkrishna From sri@aracnet.com Sun Jun 11 11:49:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001E13B00E0 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16636-10 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ruby.spiritone.com (ruby.spiritone.com [216.99.193.130]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759C03B0084 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-21-239-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.239.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by ruby.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5BFlwTA018262; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:47:59 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:47:11 -0700 Message-Id: <1150040831.16558.6.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.407 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.116, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.407 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sri@aracnet.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:49:30 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 10:03 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > > What do you think about it? > > Mozilla allows you to bookmark groups and open several pages at once. > Perhaps we need a way to create a launcher which launches more than one > program? (I guess you could do that using a script.) Anything that would require programming would not be very user friendly. I wonder if something like "launcher group" or something where you can create a launcher that runs many programs in sequence with the option of having each application start depending on whether the last application actually ran. The value is still somewhat questionable in creating such a thing. I'm not sure if many people would use such a thing. Sometimes I wish we could add such features via plugin for some enterprising 3rd party to write. sri -- Sri Ramkrishna From shaunm@gnome.org Sun Jun 11 14:15:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA23D3B01A2 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27106-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.wolfram.com (webmail.wolfram.com [140.177.205.37]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F493B0195 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from recto.housenet.network (DHCP-74-136-213-67.insightbb.com [74.136.213.67] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by webmail.wolfram.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5BIDn5t008851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:13:50 -0500 From: Shaun McCance To: sri@aracnet.com In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:13:42 -0500 Message-Id: <1150049622.16073.14.camel@recto.housenet.network> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.106, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 18:15:20 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 08:41 -0700, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > sri > > > [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it > seems kind of early to me. The mail from Thomas Friehoff at Baum[1] is pretty much a clincher. If the Gnopernicus team is behind Orca, and favors Orca being Gnopernicus's successor, then it really isn't a question of "if", only "when". What we need to think about now is the migration path for our users. Many users have vested time and resources into making Gnopernicus work for them, so unless we can have a completely seamless forced transation (a difficult thing to do), we are going to see users using Gnopernicus for some time. So we do need to consider how we're going to accomodate those users as we shift stuff over to Orca. This means thinking about our accessibility control panels, how we present our accessibility tools to the users, and how we're documenting our accessibility stack. Perhaps an IRC meeting could be set up among the Orca developers, the Gnopernicus developers, and a couple of user interface and documentation people. Hash out a plan, report it back to the community, and make it happen. I'm excited. Are you excited? I'm excited. Let's make good things happen. -- Shaun [1] This one: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:21 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > > Hi All: > > > > We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would > like > > to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal > to > > include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the > missing > > features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also > done a > > fair amount of stability and testing work. > > > > We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on > > orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html > > > > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > > Gnopernicus: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > > > as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html > > > > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to > the > > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is > still a > > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to > adoption > > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > > address the issues that arise. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Will > > (Orca project lead) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > desktop-devel-list mailing list > > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > -- > Sri Ramkrishna > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From danilo@gnome.org Sun Jun 11 15:27:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 323E13B01BF for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30006-01 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from avet.kvota.net (unknown [147.91.15.40]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A100D3B00F7 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by avet.kvota.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 882887C2A4; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:06:24 +0200 (CEST) To: sri@aracnet.com References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> From: danilo@gnome.org (=?utf-8?q?Danilo_=C5=A0egan?=) Mail-Followup-To: sri@aracnet.com, Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:06:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> (Sri Ramkrishna's message of "Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:41:41 -0700") Message-ID: <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:27:37 -0000 Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. Who are we to argue them? ;) Cheers, Danilo From newren@gmail.com Sun Jun 11 19:06:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC5C3B0253 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07553-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.195]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B4103B01CC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so906381wxd for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=fiCZ1GWCGSwxPYc+Wf7HtEdlTKk8eW/Ob7qlq52akIeZ/Ni6ap/5Ds64jor+Jdc7/Jl8P7zXudzyaVaCjbTRTEk2s1QnbwKDPSsO0Zk+94ETijxhEa2rverDJCpnloHBkRMhENFP5zm6Cb/PAiy+//TcZTXdMVuHzvte1bmEf/g= Received: by 10.70.62.1 with SMTP id k1mr5817701wxa; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.89.16 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 17:05:43 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: sri@aracnet.com In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.465 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_JH=0.077, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.465 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:06:46 -0000 On 6/11/06, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? I did respond[2] but I think your email points out some potential confusion in the community worth addressing. > [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it > seems kind of early to me. Actually, (application) module proposal time has come and passed. We're now in the extended module evaluation period. In past releases, the proposal deadline and module freeze were so close together that we weren't ever even close to actually meeting the module freeze deadline. The decision would always come like a month afterwards when we were deep into freezes. So, we changed things this time around[3]. As per the release schedule[4], new application modules needed to have been proposed by April 24th; we have a longer module evaluation period, module discussion will heat up on July 10th to discuss any lingering issues, the release team meets the following week with the community input, and module choice is frozen July 24th. I believe all the modules that have been proposed have been added to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Desktop and http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Bindings. If anyone spots a missing module, please add it. Also, it'd be great if everyone could build and test the proposed modules[5]. Thanks, Elijah [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-June/msg00009.html [3] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-April/msg00000.html [4] http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen [5] Along those lines, I updated the meta-gnome-proposed module in jhbuild just this last week to assist with that. However, it's missing gtk-sharp and tomboy, which should probably be fixed somehow. It's similar to the missing gtk2-perl and gtk-java issue, which I also don't know quite how to solve. I'm pretty sure there's a bug I filed somewhere with some advice from James that I said I'd follow up on but which I never got around to. From murrayc@murrayc.com Mon Jun 12 02:39:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC333B015B for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22320-05 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com (webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com [66.33.201.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA1A3B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.murrayc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5C02C21B; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 194.138.18.132 (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user murrayc@murrayc.com) by webmail.murrayc.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:38:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> In-Reply-To: <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:38:41 +0200 (CEST) From: "Murray Cumming" To: sri@aracnet.com, "Willie Walker" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.52 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.52 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 06:39:40 -0000 > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of confusion. Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? > Who are we to argue them? ;) Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 05:43:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE3203B00A6 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28785-07 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FCE13B00E6 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5C9hNTO024786 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 03:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J0Q00F01QZPDT@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:43:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-176.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.176]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J0Q002ILR0ARL@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:43:22 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:44:30 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, gnome-18n-list@gnome.org Message-id: <1150105469.7019.1.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: ATK and AT-SPI branched for gnome-2-14 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:43:59 -0000 Hi: ATK and AT-SPI have branched for gnome-2.14. New stuff is on HEAD, stable development should use the 2-14 branch. I haven't made a new release since the branch yet, perhaps today (AT-SPI HEAD depends, for the moment, on ATK HEAD). regards Bill From sbrabec@suse.cz Mon Jun 12 05:51:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944163B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28662-09 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.suse.cz (styx.suse.cz [82.119.242.94]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9660E3B000D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hammer.suse.cz (hammer.suse.cz [10.20.1.86]) by mail.suse.cz (SUSE CR ESMTP Mailer) with ESMTP id 3AD7062805F; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Stanislav Brabec To: Xavier Bestel In-Reply-To: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: SuSE CR, s. r. o. Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:06 +0200 Message-Id: <1150105806.13727.15.camel@hammer.suse.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:51:09 -0000 Xavier Bestel wrote: > Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: > right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the > right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your multiselections. > > Not that I advise using several mouse buttons at once. It was a nice feature allowing to do more actions in the menu during one rolling down. And a nice Amiga Multiselect utility also enabled multiple selections outside menu, in file lists, file managers etc. without using of Shift button: - Place mouse pointer over the first item you want to select - Press left button - Keep the left button pressed and press right button - Release left button, keeping right button pressed - Use left button clicking to add toggle items selection, keeping right button pressed - Release right button Both these features I often miss in GTK+. -- Best Regards / S pozdravem, Stanislav Brabec software developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SuSE CR, s. r. o. e-mail: sbrabec@suse.cz Drahobejlova 27 tel: +420 296 542 382 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 296 542 374 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 10:42:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D43A3B009D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06770-05 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0743B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-09.sun.com ([192.18.2.119]) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CDrF4H002463 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-09.sun.com by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00L012HDZ700@d1-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([129.150.117.3]) by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R0014U2KQRX50@d1-emea-09.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:10 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Xavier Bestel Message-id: <681C6D4D-8762-49C9-9187-3DCBF1B04022@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.582 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.016, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.582 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:42:37 -0000 On 9 Jun 2006, at 16:52, Xavier Bestel wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51, David Prieto wrote: > [...] >> It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch >> the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click >> applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea >> (middle-click), epiphany. > > Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: > right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the > right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your > multiselections. Yep, that was handy alright... in fact you can do that in GTK menus too, but only if you use the keyboard: Space will check the focused checkbox/radiobutton menu item and keep the menu open; Enter will check it and close the menu. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From jdub@waugh.id.au Mon Jun 12 14:13:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A90F3B0386 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23613-04 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710B83B07BD for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net [150.101.121.112]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C552C3C432 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:03 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3C4D940DB; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:00 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:00 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060612180600.GA22122@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-23-686 i686 Reply-By: Fri Jun 16 04:05:44 EST 2006 X-Uptime: 04:05:44 up 11 days, 3:57, 7 users, load average: 0.37, 0.18, 0.11 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:13:45 -0000 > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. See the background on a11y list. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Compassionate Conservative: I don't know what that is, sounds like a Volvo with a gun rack." - Robin Williams From DonScorgie@Blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jun 12 14:15:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843013B00FD for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23885-01 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D4D3B0738 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.143] (helo=anti-virus02-10) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Fpqro-0008HB-Vo for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:10:25 +0100 Received: from [82.41.205.39] (helo=[192.168.1.1]) by asmtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1Fpqrl-00080P-6Q for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:10:21 +0100 From: Don Scorgie To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:11:05 +0100 Message-Id: <1150135865.11844.7.camel@Madaline> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.517 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.517 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:15:33 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: > > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? The gnopernicus maintainers commented on the ocra list (linked to in this thread somewhere): http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Don > > > Who are we to argue them? ;) > > > Murray Cumming > murrayc@murrayc.com > www.murrayc.com > www.openismus.com > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From newren@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 15:08:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50EF53B0345 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26293-10 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B048A3B0343 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1028979wxd for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=TgVzJyw224nRJqXUuu+ThZrYi2XXmnlbm/MRSEN8qb2JI2E2qmGazGo/Wt994nfgnZRbDS6Lz76e+I4uqmsAya1REm1V9JJUjL1aj+jeskwwsoYUJvLb83onPB5WO5DLLgjqPXvsZ1w7ERN/+Cb5Id03ai+G3rD7i55tA+0ETcM= Received: by 10.70.14.5 with SMTP id 5mr3881692wxn; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.89.16 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606121207vad8be21t6b0782b3159c835b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:07:33 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Murray Cumming" In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:08:32 -0000 On 6/12/06, Murray Cumming wrote: > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html (Which Will linked to in this post: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-June/msg00008.html) From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 15:27:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 662903B00E5 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27322-03 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B2CA3B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-06.sun.com ([192.18.39.116]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CIohjx021697 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-06.sun.com by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00101FW17D00@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.26.228] by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R00CEDGCI6530@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:42 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: Murray Cumming Message-id: <448DB782.2070303@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:27:15 -0000 Hi Murray , >>> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we >>> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? >>> >> It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, >> especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. >> > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? > Please see this message from Thomas Friehoff, the VP of Engineering at BAUM, maintainers of Gnopernicus: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. From shaunm@gnome.org Mon Jun 12 16:04:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8775F3B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28570-06 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wolfram.com (mailhub.wolfram.com [140.177.10.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E573B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shaunmlx.wri.wolfram.com (shaunmlx.wri.wolfram.com [140.177.4.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by wolfram.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CK3UoC010479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:03:31 -0500 From: Shaun McCance To: Murray Cumming In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:03:30 -0500 Message-Id: <1150142610.22619.0.camel@shaunmlx> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:04:30 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: > > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? Right here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html -- Shaun From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 18:42:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909A03B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01759-06 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710533B00A5 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-05.sun.com (d1-emea-05.sun.com [192.18.2.115] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CMe23L023927 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-05.sun.com by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00H01LMM9J00@d1-emea-05.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([194.125.72.67]) by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R00DP3QYQQZ60@d1-emea-05.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:02 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:39:58 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Murray Cumming Message-id: <6516EFE3-F4F7-49C8-B0D9-B73C8C4E2DC7@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.56 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.56 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:42:34 -0000 On 12 Jun 2006, at 07:38, Murray Cumming wrote: > >> Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: >> >>> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). >>> Are we >>> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? >> >> It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, >> especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. Shaun posted the evidence earlier in the thread :) http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From gnome@nextreality.net Mon Jun 12 23:35:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088263B0009; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08673-05; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E478D3B0010; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 5FE5E35904; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:34:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id C501C35901; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 21:34:30 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: release-team@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list , GNOME Documentation , gnome-i18n@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500001, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_LR=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: bug buddy branched X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:35:51 -0000 Bug buddy has been branched. gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From andrew@operationaldynamics.com Tue Jun 13 01:51:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151553B0150 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12131-02 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay02.pair.com (relay02.pair.com [209.68.5.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B40DB3B0120 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13902 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2006 05:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO procyon) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 13 Jun 2006 05:43:56 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 150.101.122.233 From: Andrew Cowie To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Operational Dynamics Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:59:18 +1000 Message-Id: <1150174758.5806.4.camel@procyon.operationaldynamics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.144, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_BG=0.077, TW_GT=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: Subject: What up, java bindings? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:51:33 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 17:05 -0600, in a thread originally about "Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16", Elijah Newren wrote: > [5] Along those lines, ... > It's similar to the missing gtk2-perl and gtk-java issue, which I also > don't know quite how to solve. Oh? What's up? More to the point, what do you need us to do? Not that we have large team, but I'll do my best. ++ As an OT aside: our libraries are called glib-java, cairo-java, libgtk-java, libgnome-java, libglade-java, and libgconf-java being our release set at the moment, with libvte-java, and libeds-java joining this cycle. They're all on ftp.gnome.org. Quite the grab bag, with most following the libBLAH-java pattern, which was I believe at the request of the GNOME release team of the day when they multiplexed the previously straight forward "java-gtk" and "java-gnome" into the above mess. Before my time. A number have people have pointed out that naming like glade-java, along the lines of what the Mono boys and girls used (glade-sharp) would be nice. I agree, but at this point, given that the distros all adjusted their packages about 18 months ago when java-gnome shattered into its constituent pieces, that changing the naming pattern would be a large and painful change without that much benefit. [Not that I needed the scars to reinforce the obvious, but I was doing the Gentoo ebuilds then and it was quite a pain to shuffle and create that many new packages. I am quite conscious of the cost of change especially when it comes to package naming, etc. Given the enormous hassle it is to prepare up 6 headed for 8+ libraries every time we cut a java-gnome release, I'm not in a rush to add to my problems.] So, libBLAH-java it is... unless, as a part of a GNOME wide cleanup, we adopt a common naming scheme for bindings packages. If that's the case, then I'm sure the powers that be can align the stars to get package names changed in every distro simultaneously. Yup. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Technology strategy, managing change, establishing procedures, and executing successful upgrades to mission critical business infrastructure. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ Sydney New York Toronto London From danilo@gnome.org Tue Jun 13 05:17:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58993B008F for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17857-05 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from supa.sekjur.com (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7FE3B000A for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D81421F205; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown by localhost (amavisd-new, unix socket) id client-EFXCVfB9; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.121] (dhcp-87-116-155-154.marshall-bg.customer.sbb.co.yu [87.116.155.154]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2CAD21F1F3; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Danilo Segan To: Murray Cumming In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sekjur.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:17:28 -0000 У пон, 12. 06 2006. у 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming пише: > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. As pointed to in original e-mail: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html "We support the Orca team's proposal to make Orca the default screen reader / magnifier on the GNOME desktop in GNOME 2.16 - and for Orca to be the spiritual and logical successor to Gnopernicus." Perhaps I am trusting e-mail exchange too much? (Though, I don't think I am ;) > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? No, I didn't mean it like that. Though, if they didn't actually send the above message (we all know how easy it is to forge e-mail headers), they'd have certainly replied so far. Cheers, Danilo From William.Walker@Sun.COM Tue Jun 13 11:55:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468343B000C; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28918-08; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E903B00D9; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-02.sun.com ([192.18.108.176]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5DFsBuL025314; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0T00J012NLRP00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM); Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0T009D82UA4MV4@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:54:09 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Danilo Segan Message-id: <1150214050.5017.16.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: Cc: sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Murray Cumming Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:55:14 -0000 > No, I didn't mean it like that. Though, if they didn't actually send > the above message (we all know how easy it is to forge e-mail headers), > they'd have certainly replied so far. I can assure you that the message is indeed for real as we've had telephone conversations with Thomas and the Gnopernicus team regarding this transition. In addition, if it were fake, I can assure you that I would also let you know. Thanks! Will From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Tue Jun 13 16:27:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6215E3B03D8 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05552-08 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E17C3B03F0 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-06.sun.com ([192.18.108.180]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5DKQxAT005525 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0T00501EYOJY00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0T009Q0FGXLT93@mail-amer.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: GNOME Desktop Message-id: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.703 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.639] X-Spam-Score: -1.703 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 20:27:55 -0000 As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video plugins are currently in beta-test. http://shop.fluendo.com/ While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed to a per-use license). They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the desktop market. In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that represents such a small percentage of desktop users. Is this worth exploring? Brian From rbultje@ronald.bitfreak.net Wed Jun 14 15:47:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DF33B0112 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10759-04 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (unknown [24.29.109.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D623B01B6 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (cpe-66-65-0-167.nyc.res.rr.com [66.65.0.167]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5EJjjTm009201; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: "Ronald S. Bultje" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:43:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 (2.2.3-4.fc4) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:47:12 -0000 On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). [..] > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald From sri@aracnet.com Thu Jun 15 00:34:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CCB3B00CA for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11360-03 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [216.99.193.114]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC40D3B00B7 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [127.0.0.1]) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5F4XmTw009989; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:48 -0700 Received: (from sri@localhost) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k5F4XkZ5009987; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: "Ronald S. Bultje" Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 04:34:09 -0000 On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could license it. I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have probably heard it before. :-) sri From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Thu Jun 15 17:16:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995B83B00D0 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00998-06 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF1E3B006C for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5FLFCvC005262 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0X004016M4PP00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0X00AK171AVSV0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-reply-to: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: Sriram Ramkrishna Message-id: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.521 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.521 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:16:15 -0000 >>> Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a >>> license with the GNOME community >> >> Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Is there a more appropriate forum for discussing a topic like this? Apologies if my previous email was inappropriate. I certainly do not want to encourage the GNOME community to violate any important ideals. Obviously one ideal that it wouldn't violate is giving our end-users the best desktop experience possible. It seems a bit hard to really do this without finding and supporting creative ways to allow popular desktop IP to integrate with the desktop. But "allowing" IP to integrate doesn't mean that the GNOME community needs to support it financially, obviously. I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. I just wanted to mention the idea and see if there might be interest. From the responses, it seems like there isn't much. But that is fine since end users can go to the Fluendo store to purchase the plugins directly if they want them. > I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have > probably heard it before. :-) While I certainly understand it would be bad for the GNOME community to support non-free projects at the expense of free projects, I didn't think I was suggesting anything that would detract from free software. If enough users/companies are willing to pony up the money to pay for a license, then this isn't taking away from money earmarked for other free projects. In fact, the Foundation could reasonably insist that some extra money to fund free projects would be required for them to consider supporting a non-free project. Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely make free software more popular rather than less. Since the license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't work well. The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate with the desktop. Fluendo is already doing this, so to a degree the need is being met. Really the opportunity to work more closely together only makes it more affordable for everyone. Brian From thomas@apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 07:29:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFD53B0007 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27074-01 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.es6.egwn.net (server02.es6.egwn.net [195.10.6.12]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731023B000B for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net (server07.fr4.egwn.net [62.39.85.77]) by mx1.es6.egwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9EF4F82E3; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 5261F83C17; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server07.fr4.egwn.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16333-39; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thread.fluendo.lan (core.fluendo.com [195.10.6.237]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 46C3683C14; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thomas.fluendo.lan (thomas.fluendo.lan [192.168.1.10]) by thread.fluendo.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A96BFE8F; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:10 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Thomas Vander Stichele To: Sriram Ramkrishna In-Reply-To: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:08 +0200 Message-Id: <1150457348.23862.202.camel@otto.amantes> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: By amavis at egwn.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.683 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_SBL=3.16] X-Spam-Score: 0.683 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:29:46 -0000 Hi, > On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > > to a per-use license). > > [..] > > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > > license with the GNOME community > > > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Where is the start of this thread ? Nobody I've asked seems to have anything before Ronald's mail. Thomas From thomas@apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 10:31:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32B83B0076 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31386-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.es6.egwn.net (server02.es6.egwn.net [195.10.6.12]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163283B0011 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net (server07.fr4.egwn.net [62.39.85.77]) by mx1.es6.egwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E544F8353; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id AED6483C18; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server07.fr4.egwn.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18233-24; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thread.fluendo.lan (core.fluendo.com [195.10.6.237]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 9CCCD83C14; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thomas.fluendo.lan (thomas.fluendo.lan [192.168.1.10]) by thread.fluendo.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20788FE8F; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Thomas Vander Stichele To: "Ronald S. Bultje" In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:54 +0200 Message-Id: <1150468254.23862.219.camel@otto.amantes> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: By amavis at egwn.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.683 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_SBL=3.16] X-Spam-Score: 0.683 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:31:37 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 15:43 -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. I agree with Ronald (though violate is overstating it :)) that this should not be done by the GNOME foundation as such. It would make sense for a group of distributions to team up in some form to do this - but the GNOME Foundation should be about Free Software. (For those of you like me that didn't get Brian's original mail - he was asking what people think about the possibility of some distributors giving money to the GNOME foundation so that the GNOME foundation could pay the license fees for proprietary codecs) Thomas From jdub@waugh.id.au Fri Jun 16 13:08:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A48363B00E0 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07045-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8343B0131 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net [150.101.121.112]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2123C28B for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:13 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C1860200E6; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060616170703.GM17421@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Reply-By: Tue Jun 20 03:04:24 EST 2006 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-23-686 i686 X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Uptime: 03:04:24 up 15 days, 2:56, 9 users, load average: 0.13, 0.05, 0.02 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:08:00 -0000 > I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that > the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single > license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like > this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save > money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. It seems more appropriate that this be pursued by distributors and Fluendo themselves (distributing directly to end users) than GNOME. We don't control the integration or immediate end-user experience, so there's not a lot we can do that will directly impact users here - unless you can think of other opportunities. If you mean "us" to include all distributors as well, that is a different issue. :-) (btw, you wrote a very long mail for a few short points) - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "You can't just find cake. Cake isn't naturally occuring." - Penny Arcade From cjb@mrao.cam.ac.uk Fri Jun 16 15:50:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7F03B00DC for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18185-06 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk (mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk [131.111.48.8]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8473B0074 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skye.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.48.158] ident=mail) by mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FrKJZ-0001YY-20; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:09 +0100 Received: from islay.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.48.119]) by skye.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1FrKJY-0004jt-00; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 To: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> From: Chris Ball Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> (Brian Cameron's message of "Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Social Property, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , Sriram Ramkrishna , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:50:09 -0000 >> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Brian Cameron said: > Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely > make free software more popular rather than less. Since the > license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be > terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't > work well. "Those who would give up freedom to purchase a little temporary popularity deserve neither." I think that Sriram's right about talking to the distributions. You'll find that most (Fedora, etc) have already committed to not ship patent-encumbered codecs regardless of whether a license is available, though. See, for example, the lack of success ESR had with suggesting that Fedora license an MP3 decoder: http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2006-March/msg01286.html - Chris. -- Chris Ball From murrayc@murrayc.com Fri Jun 16 17:51:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6923B0106 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22708-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarthymail-a5.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-176.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.176]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB5B3B01D2 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noname (p5497EE72.dip.t-dialin.net [84.151.238.114]) by swarthymail-a5.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B6E109EAC; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Murray Cumming To: Brian Cameron In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:50:21 +0200 Message-Id: <1150494621.5811.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.481 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.118, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.481 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , Sriram Ramkrishna , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:51:08 -0000 On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 16:15 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: [snip] > The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with > multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate > with the desktop. [snip] Ignoring the rest of this thread, the start of which hasn't reached my inbox yet... We are not against "Intellectual property", or copyright in general. This is the kind of phrasing I'd expect in a "Linux is for communists" article. We just like to license our copyrighted stuff in a particular way, and generally prefer software that does that too. So I think you really need to avoid this odd terminology, if it's not what you mean, or understand. Murray From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Fri Jun 16 18:13:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56933B04E4 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23880-02 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3029D3B05DF for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-03.sun.com ([192.18.108.177]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5GLTqdA022116 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0Z00F012706I00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0Z00JL52DRY1G0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:29:54 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-reply-to: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: thomas@apestaart.org Message-id: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.703 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.639] X-Spam-Score: -1.703 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:13:13 -0000 Thomas: I was going to point you towards the archives, but the GNOME archives seem all messed up - no emails before today. Here was my original email. It seems after the responses, that there is little interest in providing encumbered plugins on GNOME distros. While not exactly the answer I was hoping for, I appreciate people exploring the idea and explaining the state of affairs to me. Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. Brian Brian Cameron wrote: > > As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP > plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video > plugins are currently in beta-test. > > http://shop.fluendo.com/ > > While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs > (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that > the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows > IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if > users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). > > They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use > UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the > plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all > UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the > desktop market. > > In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization > like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could > be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian > Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible > if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked > out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME > distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich > experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in > donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? > > As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have > similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own > RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount > of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real > with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely > that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and > RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in > a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems > it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if > they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that > represents such a small percentage of desktop users. > > Is this worth exploring? > > Brian > From newren@gmail.com Fri Jun 16 19:33:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C7A43B06BB for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27362-02 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4A83B06CE for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so554080wxd for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.132.14 with SMTP id f14mr4808064wxd; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.102.9 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:26:36 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_TK=0.077, TW_YG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:33:40 -0000 Hi everyone, This is just a quick email to ask for help in improving the dogfoodability of our tarballs and CVS. See the lists below my verbose explanation if you want to jump to the details. :) Currently, buildability from either tarballs or CVS is pretty poor; I wouldn't consider either in a dogfoodable state. Most of it is just small things that are easily fixed, but it really adds up. We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we just fix the modules??"). There have also been multiple cases where we have had to revert modules to older versions. It's worth noting that not all is bad -- a quick search shows that there are over two dozen build bugs that have been fixed in the last week and that's only counting the ones that I filed. So people are definitely working hard on this. We'd just like to ask for some extra help where possible to clean up the remainder of the issues (in fact, a bunch of them already have patches...). Luis also wanted me to say: I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole release until they are all fixed. The email should stress that time-based releases only work if the code is dogfoodable all the time. I'd suggest requesting a volunteer to scream at d-d-l every time tinderbox breaks. IMHO, publicly shaming those who break the build is the only way you're going to achieve regular buildability- bugzilla is insufficient. Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gtkmm 344788 (and 344787) simple build warnings gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-vfs 344349 checks for selinux aren't robust gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x pygtk 344845 (probably fixed now by pygtk-2.15.2) deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) Problems in non-release-set modules: ----------------------------------- rhythmbox 343718 partially fixed, but fix has new problems rhythmbox 345036 last released tarball won't build under 2.15.x From rdepantalon@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 19:52:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDEE3B000C for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03892-01 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372463B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so2191648nzo for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=kSddZwdPfx/WyIQpZeK81Xawz3TozY9KqS04dlWboeOVpJ3aaRLpDx/0dYKz3/feqSN+r6rxBHrdlPTaPOIWO4MsPINgNKuMajC4hM/g6nVo62d/l708y/OXodJ0MXIk/YSGVlYs3vVaS56GB65uLTQU0IOaufzFWiJhplelOpo= Received: by 10.36.216.6 with SMTP id o6mr2797570nzg; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.15.72 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:52:01 +0200 From: "Rousseau de Pantalon" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.804 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_00_10=0.795, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.804 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:30:21 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:52:53 -0000 ------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Gnome Developers, I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version. End-users hate decisions. In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd. Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown. Step back. Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested. Step back. Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns. This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do. Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out. This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful. It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John ! Now for the good news: I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell. I like it very much. Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it. Kind regards, Rousseau de Pantalon. ------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Gnome Developers,

I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version.
End-users hate decisions.
In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd.

Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown.
Step back.
Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested.
Step back.

Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns.
This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do.

Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out.
This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful.
It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in
much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma.

I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John !

Now for the good news:
I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell.
I like it very much.

Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it.


Kind regards,
  Rousseau de Pantalon.


------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237-- From james.henstridge@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 05:39:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 294AE3B06EB for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16649-01 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27B33B06B7 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so605960wxd for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.30.12 with SMTP id d12mr5397726wxd; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 17:37:17 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Rousseau de Pantalon" Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 20cb2d36a3ec3620 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.585 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.585 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:39:03 -0000 On 13/06/06, Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. > It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of > devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in > much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. > > I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John > Ellis: Thanx John ! Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective with hotplugable hardware, since you don't need to configure separate applets for each drive. Furthermore, the new applet works better with the rest of the desktop: 1. it can see all the drives that Nautilus can 2. it can unmount a volume even when a Nautilus window is open for the volume. If it is missing drives, that would mean that Nautilus can't see those drives in its "computer" view either. This would be a bug to fix in gnome-vfs (which would fix both the drive mounter and Nautilus). James. From decaycell@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 09:41:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5333B013A for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23044-07 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4693B00A6 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so1975371uge for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.9 with SMTP id c9mr23610ugj; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.0.0.7? ( [217.132.240.49]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id y7sm4378445ugc.2006.06.17.06.40.32; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A Framework for Desktop Syndication From: Yaron Tausky To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:07 +0300 Message-Id: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.042 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.042 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:41:23 -0000 Hi, I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps if you think this is all rubbish. :-) On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. -- Yaron Tausky From davyd@bridgewayconsulting.com.au Sat Jun 17 12:36:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D143B0165; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27617-08; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au [203.56.14.38]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164FF3B0083; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A7FE22E8004; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 (WST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 From: Davyd Madeley To: release-team@gnome.org Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.263 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-2.742, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=0.827, RCVD_IN_WHOIS_BOGONS=2.43, UNIQUE_WORDS=2.347] X-Spam-Score: 0.263 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:13 -0000 On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the new libxklavier). --d -- Davyd Madeley http://www.davyd.id.au/ 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Sat Jun 17 15:14:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B47B3B00FD; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04221-08; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F663B010F; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060617191412m1200a7tike>; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:14:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Davyd Madeley In-Reply-To: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:11 -0400 Message-Id: <1150571651.7998.6.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.654 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.345, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.654 X-Spam-Level: Cc: release-team@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:14:57 -0000 The only people who do do not make mistakes are dead. We do appreciate your contributions to open source. Onwards, -Joseph ============================================================================ On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 18:25 +0800, Davyd Madeley wrote: > On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > > > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x > > I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the > new libxklavier). > > --d > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From dodji.seketeli@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:10:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245C03B0178 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06436-02 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.193]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEBBB3B0207 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so598956wxd for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.32.20 with SMTP id f20mr5883880wxf; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.1 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:10:05 +0200 From: "dodji Seketeli" Sender: dodji.seketeli@gmail.com To: "Yaron Tausky" Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> X-Google-Sender-Auth: c517aee610ca8ae6 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.151, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:10:24 -0000 Hello, This sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe you should bring the developer of applications like liferea into the loop. There is certainly something to be shared with them. This kind of API could simplify the code base of apps like liferea and allow other applications to provide syndication to their users, at a very low development cost. Dodji. On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: > Hi, > I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the > use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified > intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's > database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is > for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can > think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. > I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think > there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps > if you think this is all rubbish. :-) > > On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this > seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to > do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not > integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. > > -- > Yaron Tausky > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From nudrema@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:33:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6F53B0337 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07353-02 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp40.mobistarmail.be (smtp40.mobistarmail.be [193.252.23.61]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFED3B0061 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (unknown [212.224.135.202]) by mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A9A00700008B; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060617203111694.A9A00700008B@mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be Message-ID: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:08 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060612) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rousseau de Pantalon Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.971 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.441, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.069] X-Spam-Score: -1.971 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:33:01 -0000 Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. Well, it actually is, especially when you don't show volume icons on your desktop (it's more convenient than showing the "network" place to unmount the volume) This reminds me of two issues : the impossibility to show *only* the volume icons (and not the remote location ones, see bug #159245), and the missing context menu of the places menu (yeah, context menu of menu sounds weird, but it would be great to be able to unmount a volume by right-clicking on its entry in the places menu...) From gnome@nextreality.net Sat Jun 17 18:35:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD3C3B0485; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13210-09; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A40DF3B0321; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 361E035904; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:34:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C8335901; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:34:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44948375.80400@nextreality.net> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:34:29 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: release-team@gnome.org Subject: Re: bug buddy branched References: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> In-Reply-To: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_LR=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-i18n@gnome.org, GNOME Documentation , desktop-devel-list X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:35:21 -0000 This never made it to my mailbox, so I am resending. Brent Smith wrote: > Bug buddy has been branched. > > gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release > HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development > will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From jdub@waugh.id.au Sun Jun 18 06:13:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29A53B0776 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17209-03 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 406B33B015A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (unknown [81.80.162.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5E23D85D for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:11:51 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8D347410D; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:11:48 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:11:48 +0200 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet Message-ID: <20060618101148.GB19478@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 i686 Reply-By: Wed Jun 21 12:09:21 CEST 2006 X-Uptime: 12:09:21 up 53 min, 5 users, load average: 0.11, 0.17, 0.24 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.543 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.543 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:13:17 -0000 > Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to > the radio-buttuns. I was pushing for a solution that sits somewhere in the middle of those points for Ubuntu, but for various reasons the single dialogue approach was taken. Separate dialogues for 'turn off' and 'log out' make sense, but making them very distinct (as with the Ubuntu or better, Windows XP) dialogues would be a great incremental improvement to what we already have in 2.14. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ Perl: Making thick Windows admins redundant since 1987. From jdub@waugh.id.au Sun Jun 18 06:42:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72523B0AF0 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19039-06 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96AB3B09F2 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (unknown [81.80.162.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EEC83D862; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:14:05 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 09DF2410D; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:14:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:14:03 +0200 From: Jeff Waugh To: Elijah Newren Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: Elijah Newren , Gnome Desktop Development List References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 i686 Reply-By: Wed Jun 21 12:12:38 CEST 2006 X-Uptime: 12:12:38 up 56 min, 5 users, load average: 0.14, 0.15, 0.21 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:42:49 -0000 > We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with > each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we > just fix the modules??"). ... 8< ... > Luis also wanted me to say: > I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to > release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole > release until they are all fixed. Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release management process, cf. signature. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak From lists@edmack.com Sun Jun 18 07:29:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBE73B0321 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20926-05 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vega.idns2.com (vega.idns2.com [85.92.70.238]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DD63B02EF for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [83.245.47.174] (helo=[10.0.0.10]) by vega.idns2.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FrrTK-0004l5-4d; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:26 +0100 Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication From: Ed Mack To: Yaron Tausky In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:12 +0100 Message-Id: <1150614792.8849.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - vega.idns2.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - edmack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:15 -0000 > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified Perhaps you should look into getting the D-BUS interface standardised through Free-Desktop so that applications can rely on it outside of Gnome. Ed Mack From 5madfarmers@gmail.com Fri Jun 16 18:41:21 2006 Return-Path: <5madfarmers@gmail.com> X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82673B0382 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24905-05 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8303B022B for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c39so718501pyd for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.37.18 with SMTP id p18mr5094493pyj; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.28.4 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:35:01 -0500 From: "5 Mad Farmers" <5madfarmers@gmail.com> To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Need an icon and stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:55:10 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:41:21 -0000 First, sorry for the noise but I figure this is the correct list. I'm about 1/3 done with a program that is GPL and intended for Gnome users. "DVD Juicer" not that I'm a name mimic or anything. The program is just a simple C wrapper (gtk of course) around extract/transcode type tools and the program itself isn't linked to any questionably licensed libraries - it calls external programs. It aims for simplicity and the hope is the people that use it won't have to understand frame rates, codecs, yada yada yada. The program picks the main track (all can be selected) and the user just hits "record" and that's that. In any event I'm not very artistically gifted and am looking for somebody to develop an icon for it. I pretty much know what I'm after but don't have graphic skills. After that I guess I'm wondering about hosting issues. Assuming that I get it banged into useable state, at that point I'd be kind of wanting a mailing list and perhaps someplace to host a tarball, bugzilla too I guess. I'm not subscribed but lurk the list so if you're interested in the icon thing I'd appreciate an email. If somebody can point me to the details for web hosting issues I'd appreciate that too. Thanks for your time. ---- I didn't spend money on the optional funny tag line. Jeff Waugh used to have very funny ones so just paste one of his here. From fherrera@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 10:56:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CD83B0100 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31366-04 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D27AE3B0089 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2212674uge for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.9 with SMTP id c9mr919239ugj; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.13 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:48:42 +0300 From: "Fernando Herrera" Sender: fherrera@gmail.com To: "GNOME Desktop Hackers" Subject: Crash reports from GNOME bindings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3fe5fbd740cb679d X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.391 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.133, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.391 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 14:56:25 -0000 Hello, current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and Gtk# applications, so here is the question: Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for GNOME 2.16 release? Salu2. From luis.villa@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 11:37:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86C33B0CBB for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00472-10 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.194]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C753B0C12 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so668272wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.116.8 with SMTP id o8mr7058887wxc; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.10.19 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2cb10c440606180829g5729c210p27134929060a7073@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:33 -0400 From: "Luis Villa" To: "Fernando Herrera" Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.558 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.558 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:37:36 -0000 Larry Ewing swore to me he'd do this for mono... Larry? :) By the way, let me suggest that this is really critical for binding-based apps to mature. GNOME without bug-buddy would still be very unstable. Bringing bug-buddy to the people developing with your bindings is a *huge* bonus for them, even if they don't know it :) Luis On 6/18/06, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From gjc@inescporto.pt Sun Jun 18 12:02:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2537E3B0CC3 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01599-07 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from animal.inescn.pt (correio.inescn.pt [194.117.24.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233553B0CC5 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/7) with ESMTP id k5IG111T008021; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:01:01 +0100 (WEST) Received: from pong.inescporto.pt (pong.inescn.pt [194.117.26.74]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/5) with ESMTP id k5IG0rMG007976; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:00:54 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pong.inescporto.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AAE5119288; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:57:41 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings From: Gustavo Carneiro To: Fernando Herrera In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INESC Porto Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:00:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at inescporto.pt X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.389 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.389 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:02:01 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-18 at 17:48 +0300, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). Thanks and regards. > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From nudrema@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 15:25:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264F73B0115 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08453-02 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp40.mobistarmail.be (smtp40.mobistarmail.be [193.252.23.61]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5052F3B008F for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (unknown [212.224.135.11]) by mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D887F7000088; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:52 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060618192452886.D887F7000088@mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be Message-ID: <4495A882.2080608@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:50 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060612) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rousseau de Pantalon Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet References: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.973 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.443, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.069] X-Spam-Score: -1.973 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:25:59 -0000 Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > 1. > The fact that it can see all drives Nautilus can see *is* the problem. > (My harddrives and their partitions are *not* hot-pluggable -- are your's ?) > If I want to see *all* my partitions, mounted or not, I'll open the > Computer Icon. > An applet such as this should at least filter out harddisk-partitions > and only show removable (usb) devices. > Better yet, have a customizable filter on volume-label / id / > device-name or so. In fact, it looks like a bug in your side. Here I only have an icon for my floppy disk (which can't be mounted automatically) and my CD or USB drive when I put them in... My permanent partitions (and I have several of those) don't show up. > 2. > The user cannot filter the devices / partitions shown. Does not matter since only the non-permanent ones should be shown. The icon appears when I plug my USB drive in, or when I put a CD in my CD drive, and then disappears after unmounting/ejecting it. > 3. > All Icons look alike. > It's just a replica of the Computer Icon. > One cannot assign icons to distinguish devices. Once again it looks like a bug. Here (Ubuntu Dapper, Gnome 2.14) I have a different icon for CD and for floppy. > ON THE RIGHT is a panel with the pre-2.10 applet representing my: > - floppy-drive > - pendrive #1 (floppy-disk-size -- bootable) > - the 64MB XD card in my printer > - my 256MB pendrive > - my other 256 MB pendrive > - my 750MB zipdisk > - my DVD-ROM player > - my DVD-writer > - my USB 5G mini-harddrive > - my MP3-player's internal 256MB memory > - my MP3-players 512MB SD extension BTW are you sure you don't have all those in your fstab and let hal/udev/whatever do its job ? It looks weird to me to have that many different usb drive placeholders... I guess not. The previous applets had that issue of not being friendly with this auto-configuration stuff: it wasn't possible to make one show up when you plug an USB drive. Actually, this works even if you've never used a USB key before. Looking at my fstab, I can see I have an entry for my CD-ROM drive, and for my IDE hard drives. That's all. Not even a line for my floppy, nor usb drives. > I propose the following: > - A filter in which the user can select the mountable devices to be > shown on the panel. > - The ability to attach a meaningful (custom) icon that represents the > device. > - Falling back to fstab if mounting/unmounting using udev/hotplug does > not do the trick. > - Make famd more aware of Nautilus created files/folders like > .Trash----- and thus not blocking unmounts. Maybe you should fill it as a bug in bugzilla if you think it's really useful to some people. -- Steve http://tw.apinc.org From benoit@placenet.org Sun Jun 18 16:21:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 381A33B000A; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09725-01; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ibook.free.fr (benoit.placenet.org [82.241.234.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81BA3B0071; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ibook.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B6458DF; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:52 +0200 (CEST) Subject: gnome-system-monitor has been branched From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Beno=EEt?= Dejean To: gnome-i18n@gnome.org, gnome-doc-list@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, release-team@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1" Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:51 +0200 Message-Id: <1150658211.603.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:21:23 -0000 --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The stable branch is gnome-2-14 and the development branch is HEAD. --=20 Beno=C3=AEt Dejean JID: TazForEver@jabber.org GNOME http://www.gnomefr.org/ LibGTop http://directory.fsf.org/libgtop.html --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Ceci est une partie de message =?ISO-8859-1?Q?num=E9riquement?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_sign=E9e?= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBElaajliyxJIUSPQoRAtcDAJ9JZw+cTZKTWNXZBBYFCtnpm/kJuQCeO14Y Kl72P/ZsSyMPW7l+8680xm8= =ubQu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1-- From fherrera@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 16:36:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CEBD3B00AF for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09616-05 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B8E3B000A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2273703uge for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id u9mr4817144ugg; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.13 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:35:18 +0300 From: "Fernando Herrera" Sender: fherrera@gmail.com To: "Gustavo Carneiro" Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 105387f1bb21b58d X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.51 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.090, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.51 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:36:18 -0000 On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed by bug-buddy after the bug report. I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. Salu2 From james.henstridge@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 22:13:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C8B3B02DE for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20489-08 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.205]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2019D3B0196 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so718551wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.15.4 with SMTP id 4mr1982726wxo; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:47:45 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Alan Horkan" , "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: b5f0f0028f3b89ab X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.589 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.589 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:13:50 -0000 On 19/06/06, Alan Horkan wrote: > > Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find > > to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective > > Dont know what the original commenter disliked about the applet but I > found it annoying that the icons are set to be generic looking drives > ("mystery meat") to start with, even though each button is assigned to > specific device type. Only when the drive is mounted change to look like > CD/USB/Floppy etc and that little bit of extra guesswork/memorisation is > something I could do without. That is something that might be worth fixing. The drive mount applet gets all the drive images from gnome-vfs (using gnome_vfs_drive_get_icon and gnome_vfs_volume_get_icon). If gnome-vfs is changed to provide better icons for unmounted drives/volumes, that will fix their display in the applet and Nautilus. James. From paolo.maggi@polito.it Mon Jun 19 03:28:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4733B0DB7; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30352-05; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from polito.it (anacreon.polito.it [130.192.3.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE963B0BA0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:21 -0400 (EDT) X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's FindAttachments (free) Received: from [82.105.171.149] (account d003505@polito.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by anacreon.polito.it (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPSA id 39168140; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:03 +0200 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Paolo Maggi To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.41 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.41 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:28:53 -0000 Hi, I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the languages name (the iso_639 module). I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? Ciao, Paolo From Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM Mon Jun 19 05:50:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D13CA3B0004; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02234-10; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EB03B008F; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-02.sun.com (d1-emea-02.sun.com [192.18.2.112] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5J9nVFW019335; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-02.sun.com by d1-emea-02.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1300C01PF1AF00@d1-emea-02.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.150.120.119] by d1-emea-02.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J13006BTPYFPW88@d1-emea-02.sun.com>; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:30 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:27 +0100 From: Darren Kenny Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-reply-to: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sender: Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM To: Paolo Maggi Message-id: <44967327.4060809@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060602) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:50:46 -0000 Has anyone looked into the use of Tim Fosters (yeah Glynn's brother) open language tools? https://open-language-tools.dev.java.net/ I know they are in Java, but this is the main point of what it addresses - the sharing of translations - while it doesn't have the "server" functionality, it does go some way to supporting the idea of sharing of translations. Darren. PS - I'm no expert in L10N or I18N, so please excuse my ignorance... Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? > > Ciao, > Paolo > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From james.henstridge@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 06:40:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC373B008F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04861-01 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8272D3B00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so171003wxd for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.130.3 with SMTP id c3mr8315800wxd; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:39:56 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Paolo Maggi" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8275e60f19f7fc95 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:40:48 -0000 On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't be presented as such to the user. James. From ArC@gulic.org Mon Jun 19 06:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7685C3B00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05102-08 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es [193.145.138.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D52433B008F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (Postfix, from userid 43062) id 57E74C00E0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:07 +0100 (WEST) Received: from savor.gulic.org (gulic.ulpgc.es [193.145.155.10]) by smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14619C00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:07 +0100 (WEST) Received: from socios.gulic.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by savor.gulic.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3048C415B for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 (WEST) Received: from phpmailer ([217.126.206.203]) by socios.gulic.org with HTTPS (PHPMailer); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org From: Alberto Carlos Ruiz Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication Message-ID: <3acf4f39f60be389c617b40fbe1978cb@socios.gulic.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.71] X-Mailer: FeLaMiMail version 0.9.5 Organization: gulic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-PostfixSecure-Antispam: valid X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.444, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:47:21 -0000 dodji Seketeli escribi=C3=B3:=20 Hi there I've been working around using feed syndication on the desktop, in fact = I've wrote a little app to syndicate art.gnome.org brand new atom format, to automatic install backgrounds from the site, Jilorio, (http://aruiz.synaptia.net/siliconisland/2006/05/jilorio_feed_fo.html) Gtk and metacity themes are also planned. While I was writting the app, I was wondering how could I centralize the feed agregation since I would use several feeds, and I've been thinking another uses of feeds around the desktop. So I think that a solution like this could rock to approach a "live desktop" which can change using the internet content. >Dodji. > >On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: >> Hi, >> I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the >> use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of = a >> daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified >> intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's >> database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is >> for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I = can >> think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. >> I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think >> there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps >> if you think this is all rubbish. :-) >> >> On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this >> seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to >> do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not >> integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. >> >> -- >> Yaron Tausky >> >> _______________________________________________ >> desktop-devel-list mailing list >> desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list >> >_______________________________________________ >desktop-devel-list mailing list >desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From isak.savo@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 08:36:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F2A3B0C86 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11267-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qb-out-0506.google.com (qb-out-0506.google.com [72.14.204.234]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2013B3B0D60 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id e11so84670qba for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.124.12 with SMTP id b12mr4271765qbn; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.181.6 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50b611120606190510hac0a14cvabbe1aa3b0de5193@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:10:26 +0200 From: "Isak Savo" To: "James Henstridge" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:36:29 -0000 2006/6/19, James Henstridge : > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. This is also what the FSF states on their license page[1]. That page also contains links to already translated versions of the three GNU licenses. They are unofficial though, in the sense that it is the English version that what counts in court. Isak [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#UnofficialTranslations From alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk Mon Jun 19 08:37:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A663B0C86; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11302-04; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (unknown [81.2.110.250]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E433B0C98; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5JCpUKM004774; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:30 +0100 Received: (from alan@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5JCpTFs004773; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: alan set sender to alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk using -f Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Alan Cox To: James Henstridge In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 Message-Id: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.59 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.59 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:37:01 -0000 Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a foreign language will not find much favour. The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less important property. The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. Translations really should include a translation of the license text where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that the American English version is the authorative document for legal purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and what rights you have given them. Alan From rosechr@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 12:32:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48553B01C6 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20459-06 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.174]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C7C3B0196 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2608745uge for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.16 with SMTP id 16mr2246685huw; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.12 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:31:50 +0200 From: "Christian Rose" Sender: rosechr@gmail.com To: "Paolo Maggi" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 276aabd410967e48 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.32 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.280, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.32 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:32:39 -0000 On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least for the short License declarations (like "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: 1) Most common widget and menu names are already defined (and translated) in GTK+. A "License" button would be the same thing. 2) If there was an "add a license dialog to my app" API for developers to use, it would make sense to allow a template for the short declarations of most common licenses to be used. If run in a non-English locale, also display a non-official translation if it exists. 3) External dependencies that help translation (like the iso_639 module) are very useful, but developers are often not aware of it, and for obvious reasons they try to avoid unnecessary dependencies, so in practice, few applications make use of them. > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? It is a real problem. I've lost track of how many times I have manually copied the unofficial Swedish translation of the "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..." "This app is GPL"-style declaration blurb into different applications. Even more exciting since different applications format the texts differently (with or without newlines and/or markup, different amount of spacing, etc) and give different addresses to the FSF (the FSF changed address at least once), so the number of variants in use is enormous... A "do it once, do it right" convenience API for developers to use for this would be a big plus, for both developers and translators. Christian From sri@aracnet.com Mon Jun 19 15:04:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 429B43B00DB for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27155-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [216.99.193.114]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F076F3B01DA for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [127.0.0.1]) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5JJ3HTw003291; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:17 -0700 Received: (from sri@localhost) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k5JJ3GPQ003289; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060619190316.GI7996@aracnet.com> References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.563 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.563 X-Spam-Level: Cc: thomas@apestaart.org, GNOME Desktop X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:04:41 -0000 On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 04:29:54PM -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" > attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to > purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather > than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially > if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I > don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made > yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make > a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. My advice to you is to sit with the other distributions and figure out how to do it from a "GNU/Linux platform" perspective. You can't be the only company who wants to have proprietary format work "out of the box" I don't know if there is a "distro summit" but that would be the first place I would hit to start pushing for this kind of thing. But doing it from the GNOME project perspective doesn't seem very likely. So it's exactly what you're planning to do now, but it would be the distributions not the GNOME project. True it complicates the task, but if distributors want to grow their share of the desktop market they'll probably want to opt into your idea. Besides, it's a great way to get some good press by leading. :-) sri From gnome@nextreality.net Mon Jun 19 22:12:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85613B036C for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17303-05 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1B93B00C4 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id B3CAB35904; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:11:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0F8F35901; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:11:39 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:11:48 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fernando Herrera Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.023, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gustavo Carneiro , GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:12:35 -0000 Fernando Herrera wrote: > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Any security implications there? -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From behdad.esfahbod@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 23:40:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57FC63B0E8D for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20798-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481263B0E65 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so1088126wra for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.112.1 with SMTP id k1mr6865222wrc; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.190.5? ( [72.136.156.47]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 64sm4643160wra.2006.06.19.20.39.51; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Behdad Esfahbod To: Christian Rose In-Reply-To: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:39:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1150774790.14758.3.camel@home> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 (2.6.1-1.fc5.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: Behdad Esfahbod X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:40:43 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 12:31 -0400, Christian Rose wrote: > On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least > for the short License declarations (like "This program is free > software; you can redistribute it and/or > modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: I replied to this thread, but seems like it didn't make it through the list. I've been working on exactly what you suggest in this bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336225 A couple of technical questions remain open, but you get the idea. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" From james.henstridge@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 03:07:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1303B0ECF for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31382-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hu-out-0102.google.com (hu-out-0102.google.com [72.14.214.195]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C833B0EFC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hu-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 24so655028hud for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.8.15 with SMTP id 15mr9925328wxh; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:58:48 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Alan Cox" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d5d09b8fe4015615 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.042 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.042 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:07:10 -0000 On 19/06/06, Alan Cox wrote: > Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > > be presented as such to the user. > > True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a > foreign language will not find much favour. > > The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the > code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less > important property. > > The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. > Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot > exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, > oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. > > Translations really should include a translation of the license text > where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that > the American English version is the authorative document for legal > purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. > > Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and > what rights you have given them. Those are good points, and it sounds like a good idea to show an unofficial translation along with the real license. But it needs to be clear that if the translation and the english text differ that the english text be considered authorative. This is particularly important if the translated text is displayed when the user asks the app what its license is. James. From paolo.maggi@polito.it Tue Jun 20 04:21:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA53E3B0306; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02498-06; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from polito.it (anacreon.polito.it [130.192.3.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F463B0008; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's FindAttachments (free) Received: from [82.105.171.149] (account d003505@polito.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by anacreon.polito.it (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPSA id 39199418; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:44 +0200 Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Paolo Maggi To: James Henstridge In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:40 +0200 Message-Id: <1150791580.5512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.44 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.44 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:21:22 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 18:39 +0800, James Henstridge wrote: > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. I don't want to show in the License dialog the entire license text but only the good old "This program is free software... [snip]....You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program..." snippet. I agree with you translations of license text could be problematic. But I don't think this is the case since the text only says which is the license and where to find it. Ciao, Paolo From gjc@inescporto.pt Tue Jun 20 07:09:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183533B05ED for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10580-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from animal.inescn.pt (correio.inescn.pt [194.117.24.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55F93B0450 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/7) with ESMTP id k5KB8Ngq012815; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:23 +0100 (WEST) Received: from pong.inescporto.pt (pong.inescn.pt [194.117.26.74]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/5) with ESMTP id k5KB88pn012723; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:08 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pong.inescporto.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B2AAEB66; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:04:51 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings From: Gustavo Carneiro To: Brent Smith In-Reply-To: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INESC Porto Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:08:06 +0200 Message-Id: <1150801686.6052.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at inescporto.pt X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.427 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.427 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Fernando Herrera , GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:09:25 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 20:11 -0600, Brent Smith wrote: > Fernando Herrera wrote: > > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > > > > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then > the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Sounds good. > > Any security implications there? None that I can see. -- Gustavo Carneiro INESC Porto From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 11:06:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298EF3B0135 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21825-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.239]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923863B00E9 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so1191720wra for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.136.11 with SMTP id j11mr644636wrd; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:06:07 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: About Unix Power for Gnome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: d7d7ccabfc274142 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:06:50 -0000 Hi all, I'm brand new here so first of all I'll present myself. My name is Christian, I'm from italy (really near Venice) and I've finished university (computer science) last October, of course I'm a free software user and enthusiast (actually using Debian on my desktop and Ubuntu on my notebook, both with Gnome as desktop environment). For my master thesis I've done a work that probably fit quite well with the Unix Power for Gnome problem raised by Rodrigo Moya about one year ago (http://blogs.gnome.org/view/rodrigo/2005/08/19/0). Last week I've published the project born from my thesis on sourceforge at http://sflux.sourceforge.net The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application. What I've thought is a way to describe a computer system (documents, applications and operations) using Semantic Web technologies (RDF/OWL/Sparql) so that S-Flux (the application I've done) can understand what operations can be done on a particular document(s) using the applications installed on the system, create a pipeline of operations and actually perform them. On the site you'll find a couple of screencast too, 'cause I know my english is not so good so seeing is better than reading :-) The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about it. Thanks a lot for the attention, ciao! Christian. From paolo.bacchilega@libero.it Tue Jun 20 12:45:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39F33B01C9; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29388-10; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp7.libero.it (smtp7.libero.it [193.70.192.90]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8D93B0EA1; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (172.16.1.8) by smtp7.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 4464C609038C90BE; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:44:55 +0200 Received: from smtp0.libero.it ([172.16.1.204]) by localhost (asav9.libero.it [193.70.192.87]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20713-03; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:44:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [151.53.96.255] (unknown [151.53.96.255]) by smtp0.libero.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FAAD3355E9; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:00 +0200 (MEST) Subject: file-roller branched From: Paolo Bacchilega To: Desktop Devel , GNOME Documentation , GNOME I18N List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:45 +0200 Message-Id: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: with antispam and antivirus automated system at libero.it X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.691 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708] X-Spam-Score: -0.691 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:45:03 -0000 Hi, the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. Regards, Paolo. From harmon@ksu.edu Tue Jun 20 12:49:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B223B0E2A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29748-09; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.cc.ksu.edu (smtp2.cc.ksu.edu [129.130.7.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52133B05F8; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [129.130.11.189] (dhcp19.user.cis.ksu.edu [129.130.11.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp2.cc.ksu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5KGnCK5017430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:49:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:50:20 -0500 From: "Scott J. Harmon" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060601) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paolo Bacchilega Subject: Re: file-roller branched References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1551/Tue Jun 20 08:37:21 2006 on virusfilter2.cc.ksu.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , GNOME Documentation , Desktop Devel X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:49:17 -0000 Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > Hi, > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture changing bugs... > Regards, > Paolo. > Thanks, Scott. From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 12:53:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C653B0CE7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30222-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCEE33B0F2A for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so390349wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.130.3 with SMTP id c3mr10723588wxd; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:53:35 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Scott J. Harmon" Subject: Re: file-roller branched In-Reply-To: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , Desktop Devel , GNOME Documentation X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:53:44 -0000 On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > Hi, > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > changing bugs... Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get freeze break approval) ;-) From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 13:36:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513113B00B7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00401-02 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.200]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F333B016D for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so396333wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.78.15 with SMTP id a15mr8688279wxb; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:35:47 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Elijah Newren" , "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs In-Reply-To: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:36:21 -0000 On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > management process, cf. signature. > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both (There is a patch but claims nss has to be disabled for e-d-s for it to work) Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html (Frederic Peters has a patch for this) evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) From murrayc@murrayc.com Tue Jun 20 14:28:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DA53B0188 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04324-10 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarthymail-a4.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-98.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.98]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082073B0499 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noname (p5497DB9C.dip.t-dialin.net [84.151.219.156]) by swarthymail-a4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A788129A8A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs From: Murray Cumming To: Elijah Newren In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:28:20 +0200 Message-Id: <1150828100.6261.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.482 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.117, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.482 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:28:27 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 11:35 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > > management process, cf. signature. > > > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: For really simple things, I think the release-team should just go ahead and fix it, and retarball where necessary, if you can't get a maintainer to do it. (Please, would the release team finally just go ahead and release a libglade 2.6.0 tarball?) -- Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From gnome@nextreality.net Tue Jun 20 22:39:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F893B0591 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00452-03 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE0F3B058E for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 6350235904; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E8E35901; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4498B158.8020609@nextreality.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:39:20 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Elijah Newren Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:10 -0000 Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: >> Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release >> management process, cf. signature. > >> "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be >> like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: > > [snip] > gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h Invoking build sheriff privileges. 2006-06-20 Brent Smith * configure.in: add GTK+ to PKG_CHECK_MODULES so the include path for GTK is specified in the cflags; patch from Elijah Newren, fixes #344695 -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From alexl@redhat.com Wed Jun 21 03:43:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94583B0AF9; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17803-09; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582E73B0E2A; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hjpZ001040; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:45 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hjGc003626; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:45 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hh2W014630; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:44 -0400 Subject: Re: file-roller branched From: Alexander Larsson To: Elijah Newren In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:43:43 +0200 Message-Id: <1150875824.16397.66.camel@greebo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , GNOME Documentation , Desktop Devel X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:43:53 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 10:53 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > > changing bugs... > > Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are > bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or > would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get > freeze break approval) ;-) I'm slightly annoyed at this listing of rules for when you need to branch. There is also the fact that 2.14 is *stable* and fixing bugs can destabilize it as much as adding features can. If you're unsure of the stability of bugfixes its very nice to be able to commit them to a branch immediately and then move the important and stable fixes to the stable branch. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl@redhat.com alla@lysator.liu.se He's a benighted zombie photographer who hides his scarred face behind a mask. She's a wealthy cigar-chomping fairy princess on her way to prison for a murder she didn't commit. They fight crime! From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 04:25:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D4F33B01E2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08370-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78233B0466 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so307952wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.21.9 with SMTP id 9mr2472173wxu; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:25:38 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 03c2f413749c9331 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:25:41 -0000 Really no opinion at all? Maybe something like: * "Good idea but..." * "I don't think that it can solve any problem" * "I really don't like it" * "What the hell is that thing?!" I'd really like to know your opinions. This is my first open project so any advice is really really useful. Ciao! Christian From danilo@gnome.org Thu Jun 22 04:58:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1E03B057D for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10849-01 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from supa.sekjur.com (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45B53B00C5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD61921F8CB; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown by localhost (amavisd-new, unix socket) id client-x7GIvx1J; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.134] (dhcp-87-116-155-154.marshall-bg.customer.sbb.co.yu [87.116.155.154]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520CD21F8C4; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome From: Danilo Segan To: Christian Barbato In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:58:35 +0200 Message-Id: <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sekjur.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.561 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.561 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:58:42 -0000 Hi Christian, У чет, 22. 06 2006. у 10:25 +0200, Christian Barbato пише: > I'd really like to know your opinions. This is my first open project > so any advice is really really useful. GUADEC[1], the Gnome conference, is starting in two days, and everyone is busy with preparations. :) You'll probably get your share of opinions once everything settles. Of course, you're welcome to join us in Vilanova i la Geltrú in Spain :) Cheers, Danilo [1] http://guadec.org/ From kalle.vahlman@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 05:02:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67BE83B0608 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11213-02 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EAAF3B0583 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so311544wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.1 with SMTP id r1mr2731910wxb; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.77.14 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <177e83dd0606220202qf17541eg57bf321e7a4e44d1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:02:12 +0300 From: "Kalle Vahlman" To: "Christian Barbato" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.163 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.437, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.163 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: zuh@iki.fi List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:02:17 -0000 2006/6/22, Christian Barbato : > Really no opinion at all? I think this is not the right medium for the opinions, this list is about developing GNOME, not talking about new applications (even if they do use/integrate with GNOME). The project itself sounds cool though, even if "The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application" doesn't sound like what it is really doing. Seems to me it's more like utilizing CLI programs in a GUI, and as such it only applies to stuff like image/sound/video conversions and other predefined non-interactive actions (not, for example, writing a document). -- Kalle Vahlman, zuh@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 05:35:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC663B00C5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13169-02 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80DBE3B00DE for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so315225wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.116.11 with SMTP id o11mr2771364wxc; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220235g7beadd90y7850879287ba1b68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:35:37 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: "Danilo Segan" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 643165173af50fa9 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:35:40 -0000 2006/6/22, Danilo Segan : > Hi Christian, > > > GUADEC[1], the Gnome conference, is starting in two days, and everyone > is busy with preparations. :) > > You'll probably get your share of opinions once everything settles. Of > course, you're welcome to join us in Vilanova i la Geltr=FA in Spain :) Thanks Danilo, it also seems that I've choosed the wrong mailing-list. Paolo Borelli suggested me gnome-love maybe I'll try there. And of course, I'd really LOVE to be there in Spain at GUADEC but I think I'm too late...maybe next year :-) Ciao! Christian From ruben@Lambda1.be Thu Jun 22 08:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49CC53B025B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26471-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from guri.is.scarlet.be (unknown [193.74.71.22]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32573B02A8 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ([62.235.142.250]) by guri.is.scarlet.be with ESMTP id k5MCks925486; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:55 +0200 Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5255F4604E4; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome From: Ruben Vermeersch To: Christian Barbato In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-DCC-scarlet.be-Metrics: guri 2020; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:47:21 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 17:06 +0200, Christian Barbato wrote: > The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to > deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about > it. Makes me think of Automator [1], which I've always liked as an idea (but never used it). The UI could use a lot of love though, you might want to check up with the HIG. The usefulness of this app will stand and fall with a good interface concept. Also, it should be made dead simple for apps to register their own hooks. Neat idea, but whether it's successful will be highly dependent on how it's worked out. Kind Regards, Ruben [1] http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/automator/ -- Ruben Vermeersch (rubenv) http://www.Lambda1.be/ From d2004@cosmopod.com Mon Jun 19 20:59:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672EA3B0319 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11366-08 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.cosmopod.com (unknown [216.75.2.64]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907E03B0E91 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.cosmopod.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by 64.cosmopod.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5K0vjXa023707 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:45 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by 64.cosmopod.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5K0vjP1023706 for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: 64.cosmopod.com: d2004 set sender to d2004@cosmopod.com using -f From: d2004@cosmopod.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Suggestions from a User Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:44 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.561 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_REAL_NAME=0.961, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -1.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:55:12 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:59:59 -0000 Dear GNOME Developers, I am an end-user wishing to supply some feedback/suggestions on improving o= ur=20 Desktop Environment. I have been using GNOME for quite a long time (first= =20 played with it in the 1.4 days and became a serious user with release 2.0/R= ed=20 Hat 8). I am however, just a user and have no development experience. I a= m=20 also new to this list, so if any of my comments or suggestions are ignorant= =20 or have already been discussed, please forgive me in advance. I was prompted to write this after reading the article in the latest GNOME= =20 Journal about end users: http://www.gnomejournal.org/article/46/the-gnome-community-end-users Hopefully, the following will provide some constructive and positive feedba= ck=20 on areas where the system can be improved. As noted, this is from a high-e= nd=20 user's perspective, (not someone particularly interested in keybindings on= =20 Metacity or the like! :-)) Here is my wishlist: 1. Evolution's spam filter is slow and not as efficient as that of=20 Thunderbird. Optimisation work in this area would be greatly appreciated. 2. When importing a single mail file into Evolution, displaying a list of= =20 files to select from shows the file name and the date but not the file size= =2E =20 Displaying the file size would make it easier to determine which file is=20 which, if there are a large number to choose from. 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for= =20 deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash= =20 rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universa= l=20 repository for deleted data. 4. A mail preview so that incoming messages could be seen without switchin= g=20 from other applications to Evolution all of the time would be appreciated. = =20 Outlook 2003 has a function whereby a message momentarily pops-up on screen= ,=20 allowing the user to see the name of the sender and the subject line. Such= a=20 pop-up may be annoying to some users; however, Google Desktop has an even=20 better solution whereby, in "Sidebar" mode, it displays a list of recent=20 mails on screen. Clicking on one allows it to be opened out and previewed.= =20 =46rom there, clicking on it again opens the actual message in Outlook. A= =20 similar mail preview system for GNOME would therefore result in people bein= g=20 able to see new messages without constantly switching between applications= =20 and also enable them to determine if a message was particularly important. 5. One feature I greatly miss from GEdit is a "block select" function to c= ut=20 and past "blocks" of mono-spaced text. KATE and gVIM have this functionali= ty=20 and, even for non-programmers, it is extremely handy. 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the user= is=20 entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only browser I know of=20 with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has it.) 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, the= =20 user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user wants to= =20 download multiple images from a page, without saving the whole thing. IT=20 also seems, from the usability studies I have read online that new and=20 inexperienced users have a reticence towards right-clicking. The various=20 usability studies I have read by Sun and Novell seem to indicate that peopl= e=20 often do not think to right-click to configure the clock or activate applet= s. =20 Therefore, functions that are present in right-click menus only, such as th= at=20 to save images in the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an ent= ry=20 to "Save All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I know th= at=20 it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) because I can run = it=20 successfully under kppp. However, attempting to configure it under GNOME=20 results in failure as it cannot be detected. This is annoying as, for one= =20 reason, it limits me from using a GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. = =20 kppp is a more than adequate workaround but it would be great for GNOME to= =20 also support these. I realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to=20 broadband but in my (first-world) country there are still many home users=20 with dial-up only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. 9. Also related to this, it is difficult to locate hardware configuration= =20 data under GNOME, such as ports and interrupts. KDE have a centralised=20 hardware browser that provides detailed system information for those seekin= g=20 it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather than= =20 later. 10. A font management system. I did some research and found a short=20 discussion here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2006-March/msg00203.html Indeed, lacking something even the equivalent of the Mac Suitcase is an=20 impediment. =20 11. As that same message notes, DTP is a hole on Linux at the moment. Whi= lst=20 there are a few good applications, such as Scribus and KreetingKard, to=20 appeal to two levels of developer, there are no GTK-based equivalents to=20 promote healthy competition. Such applications are rarely included on=20 distributions. Even Inkscape and Bluefish are often relegated to "extras"=20 repositories. It would be great if more work on consumer level DTP=20 applications could be undertaken. This does not necessarily mean tools=20 equivalent to the likes of Quark and Adobe but smaller programs such as tho= se=20 produced by Serif and Printshop. I realise this would take much time and=20 many resources though. Also, promotion of the likes of Inkscape so that they are more visible to=20 users and included in the "Core" disks of distributions like Fedora would=20 raise the profile of such projects. Perhaps you could lobby the Fedora=20 people? 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the spatial= =20 mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the need for a file= =20 MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming, printing lists of=20 directory structures and so on. Obviously such is readily done from within= =20 the Shell but it would be great if a GNOME tool could do the same. 13. For those managing small networks, it would be great to have=20 the /etc/MOTD file (Message of the Day) appear each time users log in. For= =20 example, if I had a small school network, there may be a message I would li= ke=20 the users to see. A small dialogue box displaying this file on login would= =20 be handy. Obviously, an ability to disable it would be needed and it shoul= d=20 not be activated by default or it would be intrusive to those people with=20 single-user systems. 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like the=20 concept of circular menus mentioned here: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html It seems likely that, by reducing mouse movements, they would improve syste= m=20 ergonomics. Another advantage would be that, in their uniqueness, they wou= ld=20 help to differentiate GNOME from the alternative desktops. Such uniqueness= =20 is always positive marketing, which is why I rankle when I read of certain= =20 parties wanting to make GNOME more similar to Windows. Whilst it may help= =20 users make a transition from WIndows, it does not help give them an incenti= ve=20 to move. GNOME needs to be unique and the care to detail and usability is= =20 part of what has already attracted many people (myself included.) By=20 combining thoughtful ergonomics with eye-catching (but non-distracting)=20 visual ideas, this should help gain an even greater user base. 15. My final request is a purely personal indulgence. It would be great t= o=20 have a GNOME chess game. With the Gnuchess engine available, I am surprise= d=20 no one has included a GTK-based GNOME game due to this pasttime's enduring= =20 popularity, so I would like to lobby for this! That is the sum of my input. I hope that at least some of my ideas are=20 helpful or generate constructive discussion. I look forward to your=20 feedback. I am a newbie here, so do not be too cruel! I realise that soe = of=20 these proposals would be huge work but they are simply ideas of things I=20 would like to see. Maybe next year, maybe in Topaz, maybe even beyond that= =2E =20 There is a lot of work but the GNOME community has already come a long way.= =20 Best wishes to everyone, Danni From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 09:24:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 855FD3B041B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30123-10 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.204]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DEE3B00B8 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so351325wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.1 with SMTP id r1mr3101621wxb; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220624g442a5c35u1392f8a9bff8f25d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:24:57 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: "Ruben Vermeersch" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5e57a2bb7844bd75 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:24:59 -0000 2006/6/22, Ruben Vermeersch : > > Makes me think of Automator [1], which I've always liked as an idea (but > never used it). Oh yes. Automator was announced when I was in the middle of my project. I felt so bad, thinking that I arrived late and someone else developed my idea. But then, when Automator was released, I've looked well at it and tried it too. There are many differences between SFlux and Automator, but probably the one that I care more about is that Automator don't hide the other applications on the system and don't filter out the proposed operations on the basis of the input document(s) (it can be seen as a list of all the operations of all the applications, SFlux actually filter them). > > The UI could use a lot of love though, you might want to check up with > the HIG. The usefulness of this app will stand and fall with a good > interface concept. Bingo! The actual UI is really bad and I have to dramatically improve it. > > Also, it should be made dead simple for apps to register their own > hooks. Bingo again! Thanks a lot for your opinions. Christian. From uws@uwsworld.xs4all.nl Thu Jun 22 10:05:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9163B07F7 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00570-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uwsworld.xs4all.nl (uwsworld.xs4all.nl [194.109.237.238]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E8A3B042E for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uws by uwsworld.xs4all.nl with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1FtPoE-0000V5-00; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200 From: Wouter Bolsterlee To: d2004@cosmopod.com Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User Message-ID: <20060622140525.GA1605@uwsworld.xs4all.nl> Mail-Followup-To: d2004@cosmopod.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> X-message-flag: Guvf zrffntr qbrf abg pbagnva rapelcgrq zrffntrf. X-PGP: key 0x250A63EB, fingerprint 83C5 C205 47AD 539D A4F0 60BF 3FB4 134E 250A 63EB X-Base: All your base are belong to uws User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040907i Sender: Wouter Bolsterlee X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:05:32 -0000 --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First of all, thanks for your input! P=C3=A5 Mon, Jun 19, 2006 at 05:57:44PM -0700, d2004@cosmopod.com skrev: > 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the us= er is=20 > entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only browser I know of= =20 > with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has it.) This feature is being worked on. You can search bugzilla for the bug report and add yourself to the Cc field to track progress. > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, th= e=20 > user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user wants = to=20 > download multiple images from a page, without saving the whole thing. IT= =20 > also seems, from the usability studies I have read online that new and=20 > inexperienced users have a reticence towards right-clicking. The various= =20 > usability studies I have read by Sun and Novell seem to indicate that peo= ple=20 > often do not think to right-click to configure the clock or activate appl= ets. =20 > Therefore, functions that are present in right-click menus only, such as = that=20 > to save images in the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an e= ntry=20 > to "Save All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. I think not many people will use this feature. Therefore it's unlikely that it will be implemented. A tip: just save the page to disk. All related files such as images and stylesheets will be saved to disk as well. > 9. Also related to this, it is difficult to locate hardware configuratio= n=20 > data under GNOME, such as ports and interrupts. KDE have a centralised= =20 > hardware browser that provides detailed system information for those seek= ing=20 > it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather tha= n=20 > later. Have you tried hal-device-manager? mvrgr, Wouter --=20 :wq mail uws@xs4all.nl web http://uwstopia.nl tell myself that i'm not ready yet :: i want to live -- heather nova --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEmqOlP7QTTiUKY+sRAvBsAJ9a45WezIlO/V1hu6kiJ+TwULIJIgCgjOfG vityiebrWNVfZMLvyKzGC7I= =EQ4+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv-- From john.williams.lists@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 01:07:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F683B0670 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15165-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90CE3B06B8 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 34so700008nzf for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.134.15 with SMTP id h15mr3169537nzd; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?202.150.121.117? ( [202.150.121.117]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 6sm3937185nzn.2006.06.22.22.05.57; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User From: John Williams To: d2004@cosmopod.com In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:09:14 +1200 Message-Id: <1151039354.9177.9.camel@office.falcon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.294 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.229, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.294 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 05:07:02 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 17:57 -0700, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I know that > it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) because I can run it > successfully under kppp. However, attempting to configure it under GNOME > results in failure as it cannot be detected. This is annoying as, for one > reason, it limits me from using a GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. > kppp is a more than adequate workaround but it would be great for GNOME to > also support these. I realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to > broadband but in my (first-world) country there are still many home users > with dial-up only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. Hi Danni, and thanks for your mail. At the risk of adding a trivial "me too" message, I would like to amplify your point above. I believe that our problem (I have a similar one) is part of a bigger picture for GNOME. It is this: Software developers, in general, appear to have (and develop on) higher-end systems than those of the average user. I am referring here in particular to CPU speed, RAM and network access speed. One of the many consequences of this is that GNOME networking applications and associated infrastructure are very, very poor at accommodating users with modems, and relatedly, with slow (57k, say) access to the Internet. Not only is it very hard (I have never managed to do it) to set up GNOME's modem tool (I have to use the Network Configuration tool, and log in as root as a consequence), once you are connected many applications have no idea how do deal with: (a) slow connection speeds; and (b) intermittent connectivity Issues related to this can be seen most clearly in Evolution, but also in yumex. In fact, I am about ready to give up on Evolution totally after having used it ever since its first release. I kept on hoping that it would improve, but years down the track it appears that due to the point I raise above (developers not walking in the shoes of users) it will never happen. Sigh. After all that, I would like to say a huge THANKS to all the GNOME developers for all the really, really good stuff that the GNOME community has produced over the years. GNOME is really cool. But let's face it: it's not ready for the (non-corporate, general user) desktop yet. From psankar@novell.com Fri Jun 23 02:04:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BB53B0262 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17962-01 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sinclair.provo.novell.com (sinclair.provo.novell.com [137.65.81.169]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E763B01D2 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from INET-PRV-MTA by sinclair.provo.novell.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:03:57 -0600 Message-Id: <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:03:49 -0600 From: "P Sankar" To: Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User References: <449A5BCF0200004800012AAE@sinclair.provo.novell.com> <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> In-Reply-To: <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.479 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2] X-Spam-Score: -2.479 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:04:04 -0000 Hi, Thanks a lot for your suggestions. On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 12:58 +0000, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > 1. Evolution's spam filter is slow and not as efficient as that of > Thunderbird. Optimisation work in this area would be greatly appreciated. You need to train the spam filter for a few days to make it work effectively. This will help to develop the spam-detection-knowledge. There has been a discussion going on about letting the user choose SpamAssasin or Bogofilter. You can peek at the discussion on http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-hackers/2006-May/msg00062.html > 2. When importing a single mail file into Evolution, displaying a list of > files to select from shows the file name and the date but not the file size. > Displaying the file size would make it easier to determine which file is > which, if there are a large number to choose from. The file-open dialog used in Evolution is the gnome-wide GtkFileChooser. I believe that people hacking on it would have noted this discussion and will provide the ability to customize the columns in the dialog soon. > > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for > deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash > rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universal > repository for deleted data. I am not sure if this will be useful. If you have a remote account (IMAP/Exchange/GW) we are left with no choice other than keeping the deleted items in the server, so that they will be accesible everywhere. So they need to be on the Trash-folder on the accounts. And it will be confusing to have different Trash folder behaviors for local and remote Trash folders. > > 4. A mail preview so that incoming messages could be seen without switching > from other applications to Evolution all of the time would be appreciated. > Outlook 2003 has a function whereby a message momentarily pops-up on screen, > allowing the user to see the name of the sender and the subject line. Such a > pop-up may be annoying to some users; however, Google Desktop has an even > better solution whereby, in "Sidebar" mode, it displays a list of recent > mails on screen. Clicking on one allows it to be opened out and previewed. > >From there, clicking on it again opens the actual message in Outlook. A > similar mail preview system for GNOME would therefore result in people being > able to see new messages without constantly switching between applications > and also enable them to determine if a message was particularly important. *NOD* There needs to be a better new mail notification mechanism than the current BEEP or run-custom-program. This is already in the task list for the Evolution 2.8 release. (http://www.go-evolution.org/Mailer-2.8) Allowing the user to open/delete new mails without coming to the Evolution window. In the meanwhile you can try http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/garnome/geektoys/mail-notification/files/?only_with_tag=gnome-2-14 Your distro might ship with a new mail notification program already. You can ask for more details in your distro's forum. Sankar From mpt@myrealbox.com Sat Jun 24 03:22:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1243B0223 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29957-04 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leucothea.redline.site5.com (leucothea.redline.site5.com [216.118.97.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276F93B0360 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 203-173-178-53.bliink.ihug.co.nz ([203.173.178.53] helo=[10.1.1.5]) by leucothea.redline.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fu2T6-0006IN-Og; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Message-Id: <5f4833cdbee1bce1686a79531ed478a0@myrealbox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) From: Matthew Paul Thomas Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:22:21 +1200 To: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV. X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - leucothea.redline.site5.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - myrealbox.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.412 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.412 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:22:23 -0000 Hi Danni On Jun 20, 2006, at 12:57 PM, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > ... > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more=20 > logical for deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and=20= > go to system trash rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make=20= > system trash a universal repository for deleted data. That would be nifty, but the mail-specific Trash would still be useful=20= as a way of viewing only the deleted items that were e-mail messages. > ... > 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the=20= > user is entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only=20 > browser I know of with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has=20= > it.) > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images,=20= > the user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user=20= > wants to download multiple images from a page, without saving the=20 > whole thing. IT also seems, from the usability studies I have read=20 > online that new and inexperienced users have a reticence towards=20 > right-clicking. The various usability studies I have read by Sun and=20= > Novell seem to indicate that people often do not think to right-click=20= > to configure the clock or activate applets. Therefore, functions that=20= > are present in right-click menus only, such as that to save images in=20= > the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an entry to "Save=20= > All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. Or you could drag the image from the Web page onto your desktop or into=20= a folder, which works right now. (Granted, it doesn't work for images=20 that are inside links. But there are less obtrusive ways saving could=20 be provided for those too -- for example, the "Save As=85" button in the=20= Media tab of Firefox's Page Info window.) > 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I=20 > know that it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) =20 > because I can run it successfully under kppp. However, attempting to=20= > configure it under GNOME results in failure as it cannot be detected. =20= > This is annoying as, for one reason, it limits me from using a=20 > GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. kppp is a more than adequate=20= > workaround but it would be great for GNOME to also support these. I=20= > realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to broadband but in my=20 > (first-world) country there are still many home users with dial-up=20 > only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. Agreed -- the lack of easy-to-use dialup configuration makes Gnome much=20= less interesting for 22% of people online in the USA, 46% in China, 69%=20= in Australia, 70% in New Zealand, about 70% in India, and so on. > ... > 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the=20 > spatial mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the=20 > need for a file MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming,=20= > printing lists of directory structures and so on. > ... I can't think of any reason for these features not to be in Nautilus.=20 (You can already rename single items, just not in the way Windows and=20 Mac OS let you do it.) > ... > 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like=20= > the concept of circular menus mentioned here: > > http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html > ... =46rom what I've seen, circular menus don't scale to more than about 12=20= items, especially if they contain text. Cheers --=20 Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/= From gnome-desktop-devel-list@m.gmane.org Sat Jun 24 10:52:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C43C3B07F1 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20276-09 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355323B0402 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fu9Uv-0005Qs-Pm for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 Received: from sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.223.202]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 Received: from sdl.web by sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org From: Leon Subject: install applet server file without root Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:52:26 +0100 Lines: 14 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAEAAAAASCAMAAADc8SgQAAAAwFBMVEUCBQEJDAgTFRIaHBof IB4jJCIrLCotLywyNDE3OTY8Pjs/QD5FRkRJS0hRU1BWV1VbXVpiZGFnaWZrbWptb2xvcW52eHV5 enh+gH2Bg4CHiYaLjYqNj4yRk5CXmZaanJmdn5ygop+mqKWqrKmsrqutr6yxs7CztbK4ure7vbq/ wb7DxcLHycbJy8jNz8vQ0s/T1dLW2NXc3tvf4d7h5ODl5+Po6ufr7enu8O3x8/Dz9fL1+PT4+vf6 /Pn7/fr+//wGuxWtAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAALEwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH1gIaAyMw1+FInQAAAXxJ REFUOMulk+tygjAQhalFWodYvIwyiNUKA95QVLwQhLPv/1ZNAKWX8Yd6ZsLAZvdL9iQo9KSUx0v3 0wV/BjDSzZY6exxw0BJgrqaPApBtQeDK6eEdAGJ4DQhAZjFmWVZf798LmTUi6QGgmQCysHtfeWa1 OXITj8pMYrh9Vz03vmQbEuArMeETSZBPpIdKvMg9B2faL2NKgl3R/zZIuFZnjDW5bKGnrVfmROLk 5LhWqVmEbEcfu8u3+XD14YrvjeEsWRrlyj3QDN/To6u96VVJmkdO40AJAVU4ZQqfInWDhcpRSABi ZQ4MQYusPJ9KRSDhtgEclROBjQhGK8+hfMgdeMICSpGaRf6iU8kuiUzwnXdQ/BJleJ38/pnQ0yUJ g8JDbOxKbnlgtZDQ7Ql/GGzUxZnR7ngBxEHdCMP1rKOD/rVQhlY18aL5BMuczmncTmJnkF4AO9/3 PN9z3e3tW3uciodzFm58LcUCwWgS4drC39Vu3XsqbMu7/Zn8DYna+irHnqnQAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.0 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+0hFUCRQH6hd8ZYC5JEjXZlI6H8= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.593 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.593 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:52:39 -0000 Dear all, I am learning programming applets for gnome but it seems it requires root privilege to install and test applets. Seanni[1] has met the same issue but seems no one can answer. My question is how can a user (no root) install a .server file. Thank you all. Footnotes: [1] http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10650 -- Leon From reinouts@gnome.org Sat Jun 24 18:37:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E423B0094; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05211-10; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psmtp02.wxs.nl (psmtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.247.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57AC3B00DB; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from reinout.rotterdam-cs.com (ip5656924e.speed.planet.nl [86.86.146.78]) by psmtp02.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.02 (built Oct 21 2004)) with SMTP id <0J1D00E2UYSL68@psmtp02.wxs.nl>; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:36:28 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:39:02 +0200 From: Reinout van Schouwen Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, epiphany-list@gnome.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2 (This is not a psychotic episode. It's a cleansing moment of clarity.) References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> <20060622140525.GA1605@uwsworld.xs4all.nl> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:37:26 -0000 cc: epiphany-list On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200, Wouter Bolsterlee wrote: >> 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, >> the user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user > > I think not many people will use this feature. Therefore it's unlikely > that it will be implemented. To the contrary: someone has made a preliminary implementation of an Image Toolbar extension that shows a Save button when mousing over any image. However it was quite buggy and unfinished, so it now lingers somewhere in bugzilla... regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 00:09:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A193B02E4 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15859-06 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.207]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E163B0091 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so1472997nzh for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.47.19 with SMTP id u19mr4006827qbu; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:08:17 +0100 From: Who To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Nautilus Sidebar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.554 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.554 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 04:09:10 -0000 Hello List, A quick introduction before my main email: I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list about 5 months now... So, take my suggestions in the light of that description. Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is relevant to what the user is doing. See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in Nautilus that can display results from different engines. Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have any intentions to integrate into Nautilus I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related to this. Thanks in advance Who From glennji@gmail.com Sun Jun 25 08:18:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4B13B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12998-10 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.224]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15EC23B008C for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i12so909903wra for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.80.13 with SMTP id d13mr6295680wrb; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.99.17 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:17:45 +0100 From: "Glenn J. Mason" To: Who Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257" References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: glenn@glennji.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:18:41 -0000 ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type > specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The > idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is > relevant to what the user is doing. > > Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project > Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have > any intentions to integrate into Nautilus > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is the end of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. Was it just too much overhead on the system or something? Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]? It's a way to offer a similar thing in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions sidebar too? [1] http://www.grumz.net/index.php?q=taxonomy/term/2/9 -- Glenn J. Mason - "Glennji" Happy hacking! http://glennji.com/ ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type
specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The
idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is
relevant to what the user is doing.

Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project
Dashboard ( www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have
any intentions to integrate into Nautilus

Yeah, what happened to Dashboard?  The last update on the weblog is the end of 2003.  I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets.  Was it just too much overhead on the system or something?

Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]?  It's a way to offer a similar thing in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions sidebar too?

[1] http://www.grumz.net/index.php?q=taxonomy/term/2/9

--
Glenn J. Mason - "Glennji"
Happy hacking!
http://glennji.com/ ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257-- From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 08:38:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3553B00FE for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13730-08 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89CEE3B00D9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 34so1251591nzf for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.3.9 with SMTP id 9mr4129558qbc; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606250538l3f303826sce8eb515ee2c24fb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:38:06 +0100 From: Who To: glenn@glennji.com Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:38:10 -0000 On 6/25/06, Glenn J. Mason wrote: Snip my original message: > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is the end > of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", > like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. Was it just too much > overhead on the system or something? I have no 'inside information' but I remember reading that it's development was stalled in order to allow Beagle (which Dashboard will use a lot) to be completed. Beagle search that is cleverly targeted at the files currently selected in Nautilus is exactly the type of thing I was thinking about for the sidebar - providing 'Files edited at a similar time and of the same type as this' and 'Files containing the title of this document' - or even 'GAIM conversations about this' in the sidebar The idea would be that Beagle Search could be one engine for the sidebar - and many other things could be used along side it IF required > Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]? It's a way to offer a similar thing > in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions > sidebar too? I do use Nautilus actions - but I feel that it is not perfect because * It can only display static menu entries (as far as I know) - no query based items or previews or other things like that. * Having many options makes the menus too large/complicated and makes it harder to get to the other context menu functions * The need to right click makes it less intuitive for new users The link I sent mentioned having a Nautilus Actions engine for the sidebar design I am suggesting/asking about - I think it would be great :) Thanks for the feedback, Who From olafra@gmail.com Sun Jun 25 11:07:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48193B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18625-02 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.205]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7767F3B0097 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s1so1247426nze for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.4 with SMTP id y4mr6610751nzi; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.14.57 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:07:05 +0000 From: "Olafur Arason" To: Who Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853" References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.254 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.145, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.254 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:07:38 -0000 ------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more. Olafur Arason On 6/25/06, Who wrote: > > Hello List, > > A quick introduction before my main email: > I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I > write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux > programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am > keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work > and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI > design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list > about 5 months now... > > So, take my suggestions in the light of that description. > > Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type > specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The > idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is > relevant to what the user is doing. > > See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions > > There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding > very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in > Nautilus that can display results from different engines. > > > Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project > Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have > any intentions to integrate into Nautilus > > I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the > feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related > to this. > > Thanks in advance > > Who > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked
countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer
they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single
purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have
and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct
actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more.

Olafur Arason

On 6/25/06, Who <mailforwho@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hello List,

A quick introduction before my main email:
I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I
write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux
programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am
keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work
and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI
design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list
about 5 months now...

So, take my suggestions in the light of that description.

Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type
specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The
idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is
relevant to what the user is doing.

See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions

There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding
very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in
Nautilus that can display results from different engines.


Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project
Dashboard ( www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have
any intentions to integrate into Nautilus

I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the
feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related
to this.

Thanks in advance

Who
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------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853-- From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Sun Jun 25 11:13:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298513B00BB for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18789-08 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A3873B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.11] helo=salmon.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 25 Jun 2006 16:13:07 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:13:06 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: d2004@cosmopod.com Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Message-ID: References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.592 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.592 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:13:21 -0000 On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:44 -0700 > From: d2004@cosmopod.com > To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Subject: Suggestions from a User > > Dear GNOME Developers, > > I am an end-user wishing to supply some feedback/suggestions on > improving our Desktop Environment. For future reference it can be quite difficult to address all points of a long list so it might be best trying to stick to one or two points per mail (and I say that as someone who tries to be succint but I usually sending long verbose messages which dont get the best response). > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for > deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash > rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universal > repository for deleted data. If you are using Maildir the each individual message is already a seperate file but other implementations work quite differently. Very interesting idea but I wonder how difficult it might be to implent it. > 5. One feature I greatly miss from GEdit is a "block select" function to cut > and past "blocks" of mono-spaced text. KATE and gVIM have this functionality > and, even for non-programmers, it is extremely handy. > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, the Historically the two major browser manufacturers had other vested interests, Netscape in particular sold web server software and weren't exactly enthusiastic about tools which made it really easy for users to leech and scape content off the web (took forever before they added "Save Complete Web Page"). I put some effort into learning wget which makes it easier to scrape large batches of files from the internet but there should some graphical download tools out there to help too. I expect Epiphany might be interested in offering the feature you want but the risk might be if this feature ("save images only") didn't clutter things up and confuse users but maybe it would work out nicely. File a request in bugzilla, the Epiphany developers might be happy to add your suggestion (I wonder if it might be possible to create a firefox extension to do the same or if one already exists?) > it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather than > later. > 11. As that same message notes, DTP is a hole on Linux at the moment. Scribus is pretty good. I would much rather see infrastructure improved so QT and KDE applcations can integrate nicely into a GNOME desktop than anything else. Passepartout is an interesting application and it might be able to carve out a niche for basic publishing but it needs more developers (what project doesn't!). > Whilst there are a few good applications, such as Scribus and > KreetingKard, to appeal to two levels of developer, there are no > GTK-based equivalents to promote healthy competition. I've heard good things about Glabels. http://glabels.sourceforge.net/ > are rarely included on distributions. When more distributions switch to using a DVD (as opposed to CDs) as their primary format things might change and more software might be offered by default. > 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the spatial > mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the need for a file > MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming, printing lists of > directory structures and so on. Obviously such is readily done from within > the Shell but it would be great if a GNOME tool could do the same. The following bug report might be of interest: "rename multiple files at once" http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=306489 I wouldn't mind a tool which could take a look at all my downloads and allow me to sort them or set up filters as easily as I can do for incoming mail. A tool which was able to group files with common name patterns (or size, date, time, patterns) and then offer to sort them and put them in subfolders could be quite useful too. (A few years ago I vaguely recall looking at a tidy/cleanup tool which amongst other things would help you clear out empty unused folders but I doubt I'd be able to find it again.) > 13. For those managing small networks, it would be great to have > the /etc/MOTD file (Message of the Day) appear each time users log in. This question has been answered before, I believe they recommended some combination of Zenity and MOTD. > be handy. Obviously, an ability to disable it would be needed and it should > not be activated by default or it would be intrusive to those people with > single-user systems. (I should warn you this kind of thing sounds quite annoying and likely to be ignored by most users even if the intentions behind it are good.) > 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like the > concept of circular menus mentioned here: > http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html I've tried two drawing applications for windows, Alias Sketch and another very similar program called Artrage both of which make small use of circular menus and it can be quite useful. I wouldn't think it would suitable in most cases, best left to pen driven interfaces or applications which mostly use the mouse. > 15. My final request is a purely personal indulgence. It would be great to > have a GNOME chess game. With the Gnuchess engine available, I am surprised > no one has included a GTK-based GNOME game due to this pasttime's enduring > popularity, so I would like to lobby for this! Many chess games exist already and I believe there are a few GTK chess games if you go out and look for them. You wouldn't believe the work required to maintain Gnome games. > That is the sum of my input. I hope that at least some of my ideas are > helpful or generate constructive discussion. I look forward to your > feedback. I would have replied sooner but your message contained so many small points it took a very long time to respond to them. A few short points is often better, and taking your suggestions directly to the developers (of Nautilus, and Epiphany) is more likely to get relevant responses. > I am a newbie here, so do not be too cruel! I realise that soe of > these proposals would be huge work but they are simply ideas of things I > would like to see. -- Alan From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 11:48:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B823B008F for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19856-05 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.206]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7903B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so1532917nzh for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.115.18 with SMTP id s18mr5346240qbm; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606250847h690c57bl76f02034f0ba8e03@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:47:24 +0100 From: Who To: "Olafur Arason" Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.57 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:48:15 -0000 On 6/25/06, Olafur Arason wrote: > The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked > countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer > they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single > purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have > and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct > actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more. > > Olafur Arason > > I think that it failing to be noticed is a problem with the default configuratins, not with the tool itself. Perhaps we can think of some way to make it more discoverable - like a context menu item that says 'view more options in sidebar' when the sidebar isn't shown, does anyone have any other ideas? I fully agree that 'less is more' :) I think we want to provide really relevant actions/files/information. From johan@svedberg.com Sun Jun 25 17:53:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7563A3B01C9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04366-04 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.acc.umu.se (mail.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.156]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5753B00E9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id B664E5B for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: from suiko.acc.umu.se (suiko.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.162]) by mail.acc.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF174E for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: by suiko.acc.umu.se (Postfix, from userid 24225) id D4793803; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:45 +0200 From: Johan Svedberg To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: install applet server file without root Message-ID: <20060625235209.GA647bd.johan@svedberg.com> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at acc.umu.se X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:53:49 -0000 * Jun 24 16:53 Leon : > I am learning programming applets for gnome but it seems it requires > root privilege to install and test applets. Seanni[1] has met the same > issue but seems no one can answer. This is probably not the right place for this kind of questions. Don't know what is though. > My question is how can a user (no root) install a .server file. Thank > you all. You need to set BONOBO_ACTIVATION_PATH=/path/to/bonobo/servers -- Johan Svedberg, johan@svedberg.com, http://johan.svedberg.com/ From joeshaw@novell.com Tue Jun 27 10:10:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCBC3B013F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01576-09 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4E53B00F3 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26455 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2006 14:10:23 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?10.0.11.44?) (joe@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 27 Jun 2006 14:10:23 -0000 Subject: Re: Dashboard (was Nautilus Sidebar) From: Joe Shaw To: glenn@glennji.com In-Reply-To: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:08:41 -0400 Message-Id: <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.476 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2] X-Spam-Score: -2.476 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:10:56 -0000 Hi, On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 13:17 +0100, Glenn J. Mason wrote: > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is > the end of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information > display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. I actually just gave a talk about this yesterday at GUADEC. :) Dashboard was somewhat set aside while we developed Beagle. Dashboard is being revived as a Summer of Code project, though. Unfortunately there's not really any code to show yet. > Was it just too much overhead on the system or something? > It may be at some point, but we just didn't have enough applications instrumented at the time for this to be an issue. Joe From mailforwho@googlemail.com Tue Jun 27 11:32:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB943B009F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05536-10 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320263B0075 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f25so1888847pyf for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.37.18 with SMTP id p18mr7316061pyj; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606270831i5dd82a1bhef1c6bd07ac6adee@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:31:51 +0100 From: Who To: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Re: Dashboard (was Nautilus Sidebar) In-Reply-To: <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.581 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.581 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, glenn@glennji.com X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:32:26 -0000 On 6/27/06, Joe Shaw wrote: > I actually just gave a talk about this yesterday at GUADEC. :) > > Dashboard was somewhat set aside while we developed Beagle. Dashboard > is being revived as a Summer of Code project, though. Unfortunately > there's not really any code to show yet. > Are there any plans to put it in the Nautilus Sidebar, or for anything vaugely similar to the functionality described at http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions ? I'm still interested in hearing whether anyone thinks such an idea is possible, or worth doing :) Who From iaingnome@gmail.com Thu Jun 29 19:30:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276F13B00B5 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14918-06 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7D03B0095 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id z74so24973pyg for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.63.2 with SMTP id q2mr26810pyk; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.45.19 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35fafc140606291630y2f4f73d4nbcd9c0fa649ad3fc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:30:15 +0100 From: "Iain *" To: rah@rahga.com, "Desktop Development List" Subject: [PATCH]In death members of Project Mayhem have a name MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.365 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.365 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:30:17 -0000 ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi, My name is iain. I make patches. Here is one. I was playing Tali and noticed that my player is called "Human" by default. Attached is a patch that uses g_get_real_name so that I don't feel quite so generic when I play it. iain ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name=his-name-is-robert-polson.patch; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_ep1qym8l Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="his-name-is-robert-polson.patch" SW5kZXg6IGd0YWxpL2d5YWh0emVlLmMKPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQpSQ1MgZmlsZTogL2N2cy9nbm9tZS9n bm9tZS1nYW1lcy9ndGFsaS9neWFodHplZS5jLHYKcmV0cmlldmluZyByZXZpc2lvbiAxLjc5CmRp ZmYgLVUyIC1yMS43OSBneWFodHplZS5jCi0tLSBndGFsaS9neWFodHplZS5jCTExIEFwciAyMDA2 IDA5OjQyOjA4IC0wMDAwCTEuNzkKKysrIGd0YWxpL2d5YWh0emVlLmMJMjkgSnVuIDIwMDYgMjM6 MjE6NTggLTAwMDAKQEAgLTc2MCw3ICs3NjAsMTggQEAKIAogICAgICAgICBmb3IgKGkgPSAwOyBp IDwgTUFYX05VTUJFUl9PRl9QTEFZRVJTICYmIG5hbWVfbGlzdDsgaSsrKSB7Ci0gICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgaWYgKG5hbWVfbGlzdC0+ZGF0YSkKLSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHBsYXll cnNbaV0ubmFtZSA9IGdfc3RyZHVwIChuYW1lX2xpc3QtPmRhdGEpOwotICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IAorICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGlmIChuYW1lX2xpc3QtPmRhdGEpIHsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIGlmIChzdHJjYXNlY21wIChuYW1lX2xpc3QtPmRhdGEsIF8oIkh1bWFuIikpID09 IDApIHsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgY2hhciAqcmVhbG5hbWU7CisK KyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLyogT2xkIGRhdGE6IFVwZGF0ZSAqLwor ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICByZWFsbmFtZSA9IGdfc3RyZHVwIChnX2dl dF9yZWFsX25hbWUgKCkpOworICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBnX3N0cmRl bGltaXQgKHJlYWxuYW1lLCAiICIsICdcMCcpOworICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgcGxheWVyc1tpXS5uYW1lID0g cmVhbG5hbWU7CisgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB9IGVsc2UgeworICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBwbGF5ZXJzW2ldLm5hbWUgPSBnX3N0cmR1cCAobmFtZV9saXN0 LT5kYXRhKTsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIH0KKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB9CisK ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBuYW1lX2xpc3QgPSBnX3NsaXN0X25leHQgKG5hbWVfbGlzdCk7CiAg ICAgICAgIH0KSW5kZXg6IGd0YWxpL3lhaHR6ZWUuYwo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09ClJDUyBmaWxlOiAvY3Zz L2dub21lL2dub21lLWdhbWVzL2d0YWxpL3lhaHR6ZWUuYyx2CnJldHJpZXZpbmcgcmV2aXNpb24g MS4yNApkaWZmIC1VMiAtcjEuMjQgeWFodHplZS5jCi0tLSBndGFsaS95YWh0emVlLmMJMjkgTWFy IDIwMDYgMDk6MjM6MDkgLTAwMDAJMS4yNAorKysgZ3RhbGkveWFodHplZS5jCTI5IEp1biAyMDA2 IDIzOjIxOjU4IC0wMDAwCkBAIC0zNSw0ICszNSw3IEBACiAKICNpbmNsdWRlIDxjb25maWcuaD4K KworI2luY2x1ZGUgPGdsaWIuaD4KKwogI2luY2x1ZGUgInlhaHR6ZWUuaCIKIApAQCAtNTgsNSAr NjEsNSBAQAogaW50IERpc3BsYXlDb21wdXRlclRob3VnaHRzID0gMDsKIGludCBDdXJyZW50UGxh eWVyOwotY2hhciAqRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW01BWF9OVU1CRVJfT0ZfUExBWUVSU10gPSB7 IE5fKCJIdW1hbiIpLAorY2hhciAqRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW01BWF9OVU1CRVJfT0ZfUExB WUVSU10gPSB7IE5VTEwsCiAJCQkJCQkgICAgIldpbGJlciIsCiAJCQkJCQkgICAgIkJpbGwiLApA QCAtMTE0LDUgKzExNywxNCBAQAogCiAJZm9yIChpID0gMDsgaSA8IE1BWF9OVU1CRVJfT0ZfUExB WUVSUzsgKytpKSB7Ci0JCXBsYXllcnNbaV0ubmFtZSA9IF8oRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW2ld KTsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBpZiAoRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW2ldID09IE5VTEwpIHsK KyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGNoYXIgKnJlYWxuYW1lOworCisgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICByZWFsbmFtZSA9IGdfc3RyZHVwIChnX2dldF9yZWFsX25hbWUgKCkpOworICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgZ19zdHJkZWxpbWl0IChyZWFsbmFtZSwgIiAiLCAnXDAnKTsK KyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIAorICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgcGxheWVy c1tpXS5uYW1lID0gcmVhbG5hbWU7CisgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgfSBlbHNlIHsKKyAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHBsYXllcnNbaV0ubmFtZSA9IF8oRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW2ld KTsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB9CiAJCXBsYXllcnNbaV0uY29tcCA9IDE7CiAgICAgICAgIH0K ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489-- From http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2002-April/msg00226.html > Proposed Changes to [aptly renamed] "Start Here": > > 6 Folders (listed alphabetically) ... > Startup > The end of the session manager! Well, not really. Any thing the user > places here (preferably as links and .desktop files) would opened > (or run) when the user logs in. This requires the most new work > of these folders as it involves the session manager. It might > be implemented by passing the --sm-disable argument to programs > run from it and placing in the default gnome-session something to > open the things in the startup folder. ... Cheers, Greg Merchan From iaingnome@gmail.com Fri Jun 2 19:59:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869683B047B for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32453-07 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.171]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C303B0B7F for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so671871uge for ; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=H1Ne4pKCRfVg5XCcNJOijkcp7kgP1jOGUnyBKNo10St1vW+TR/MaRL7mfp1YpYzR1ww/NPnbYtsozd5iHD4rZARvJpfeKJTDMoj1OiZ82HIA7f1V2ALUOqt8hjbt5qmawaaJxKaaz7JPIkDezWuiAq/zP6/mFLIkg2if+G0X7z0= Received: by 10.67.89.6 with SMTP id r6mr1253688ugl; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.245.8 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 00:59:23 +0100 From: "Iain *" To: "Desktop Development List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.888 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077, TW_RG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -0.888 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 23:59:26 -0000 ------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hi Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a maintainer these days? First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use this new system The patch is here: http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch and is also attached. lots of love iain ------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name=gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_enz77jd7 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch" SW5kZXg6IENoYW5nZUxvZwo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09ClJDUyBmaWxlOiAvY3ZzL2dub21lL2dub21lLXRl cm1pbmFsL0NoYW5nZUxvZyx2CnJldHJpZXZpbmcgcmV2aXNpb24gMS41NTUKZGlmZiAtVTIgLXIx LjU1NSBDaGFuZ2VMb2cKLS0tIENoYW5nZUxvZwkxNyBNYXkgMjAwNiAyMjoxMDowNCAtMDAwMAkx LjU1NQorKysgQ2hhbmdlTG9nCTIgSnVuIDIwMDYgMjM6MTk6MjIgLTAwMDAKQEAgLTEsMiArMSwx MiBAQAorMjAwNi0wNi0wMiAgSWFpbiBIb2xtZXMgIDxpYWluQGdub21lLm9yZz4KKworCSogc3Jj 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------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065-- From lucasr.at.mundo@gmail.com Sat Jun 3 06:15:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D02B3B04F5 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28056-04 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 326E13B0622 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so758994uge for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=be0ykkhnR+WInlr9zJKJ3Eg2z7QkHBPz/mS2UJdtwVZO5Za3jb8unUjjkVfETZAFRWc39WiZRaWUuPoblhjjhvWzgk517bpMwWIUwugErS7qPPHUitDvugxhhvQjbrj0ByMDtIeDvOj5b4ClEA+rvsnZIwwpbWAJiAWEZKN3rJk= Received: by 10.67.97.7 with SMTP id z7mr1557650ugl; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.32.17 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31a62e6f0606030315i5794061fx3afda4bd5a1d3599@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 07:15:02 -0300 From: "Lucas Rocha" To: "Desktop Development List" In-Reply-To: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.254 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.346, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.254 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 10:15:10 -0000 Hi Iain, AFAIK (and acoording to the MAINTAINERS file), gnome-terminal is maintained by Guilherme Pastore (aka fatalerror). I suggest you to file a bug and try to meet him on IRC. Behdad has been doing some stuff on this module too. p eace --lucasr 2006/6/2, Iain * : > hi > > Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a > maintainer these days? > > First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked > fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that > stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. > > Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program > instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus > pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use > this new system > > The patch is here: > http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch > and is also attached. > > lots of love > iain > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > > > From kalle.vahlman@gmail.com Sat Jun 3 11:21:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042763B067E for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11829-06 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210563B06CA for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so807287uge for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RsVv8gkP8m9sF8YRGPObFNgPMrFZhMxg2dj1ZuUMrD/5o3bHyLSTTVDdZvcK3l+E2oHXnO9ff2Wi4ktD4/8E4YcMxVkQUaO61hgwEWINDBbCHofhSfsE8DhkXjEtpiaL2S8cJXm+bDOAm+8d2uauZESHawvURG0Ft0YGVX8pnT8= Received: by 10.67.103.7 with SMTP id f7mr1758517ugm; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.16.10 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <177e83dd0606030821n5c774ad3p127dd3a6675e82e1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 18:21:27 +0300 From: "Kalle Vahlman" To: "Iain *" In-Reply-To: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.49 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.448, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.49 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Desktop Development List Subject: Re: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: zuh@iki.fi List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:21:32 -0000 2006/6/3, Iain * : > hi > > Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a > maintainer these days? > > First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked > fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that > stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. > > Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program > instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus > pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use > this new system Very cool. Seems to launch way faster than bonobo version too after a quick test :) (though that might be 2.14.1 vs CVS too I guess) > The patch is here: > http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch > and is also attached. > > lots of love to > iain ;) -- Kalle Vahlman, zuh@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Sun Jun 4 15:26:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4B93B016C for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06133-05 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.192.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 002C43B02A5 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060604192622m1200nk46be>; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:26:23 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Gnome Desktop Development List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:26:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.641 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.332, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.641 X-Spam-Level: Subject: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 19:26:25 -0000 A common [fatal] error reported by a number of applications in the 2.15.x branch is: Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to open file '': No such file or directory GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed aborting... Questions: * Is there a simple work around? It is difficult to test 2.15.x with this error in place. * Any chance that this problem will be resolved any time soon? I have seen this problem in 2.15.0, 2.15.1, and 2.15.2. -Joseph -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From bjourne@gmail.com Sun Jun 4 16:21:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F543B01AC for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08773-06 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDA63B0101 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1042692wxd for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Hb49BjoqweARg0w5t1fwubOAcbRHt6rtJiiTAWtgSnZ3+F4OH33pOXhARWn3vwVWy6kqDi2iOKnFZPw2JKR3C8qvwy+eTYvI1Bzb+s1h+rA2KDJCI0VUUB+mCT9l7yayiKg8drLRqVlj8TiHujImfISlEdqio6Ue36336uFqRuQ= Received: by 10.70.49.6 with SMTP id w6mr5252855wxw; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.10 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 22:21:29 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.421 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_MV=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.421 X-Spam-Level: Subject: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 20:21:31 -0000 Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very much prefer svn instead of cvs. --=20 mvh Bj=F6rn Lindqvist From as583@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sun Jun 4 16:27:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99653B01AC for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09042-03 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.139]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5B63B016C for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from as583.emma.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.248.113]:34970) by ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.159]:587) with esmtpsa (PLAIN:as583) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1FmzBj-0002Xc-UQ (Exim 4.54) (return-path ); Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:27:07 +0100 Message-ID: <448341FB.80605@gnome.org> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:26:35 +0100 From: Andrew Sobala User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?= References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Andrew Sobala X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.509 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.064, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.509 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 20:27:14 -0000 BJörn Lindqvist wrote: > Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to > Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have > been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the > switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very > much prefer svn instead of cvs. Discussion happened on gnome-hackers; new date is 14th July. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2006-June -- Andrew From newren@gmail.com Sun Jun 4 19:03:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66DAD3B00D0 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17079-09 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058B23B0288 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1057642wxd for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=R7GruRgIZLPAkXceJSqXQP+VWzvqThkkwX1ScM7kmw6txaFHhFEDUh6fp+rn3fJbD3OMAOnM6VZg2F7S8zQoQhquZshi9t9n9+jYYDE3fF3bF4nmR8wXjRXQh2RN4yh37VhpDUzhpTZA3m8q5l8sf+E21p5FuEDO6fPqMOCRAvc= Received: by 10.70.117.16 with SMTP id p16mr5361597wxc; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.7 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 17:03:50 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" In-Reply-To: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 23:03:53 -0000 On 6/4/06, BJ=F6rn Lindqvist wrote: > Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to > Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have > been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the > switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very > much prefer svn instead of cvs. Looks like we failed somewhere to get the word out about devel-announce-list widely enough. It's a very low volume list meant for important announcements. Granted, as aes mentioned, the general discussion happened on gnome-hackers but for those who'd prefer to just get the big announcements, the postponement[1] and new date[2] of the SVN migration were both announced to devel-announce-list. [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-March/msg00003.= html [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-May/msg00004.ht= ml From bjourne@gmail.com Mon Jun 5 05:52:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1BB3B00CE for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20033-02 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C378C3B031D for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1128508wxd for ; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=VMrV0zJYnZc0fD1VxiFU6iO0HMwOvUJii7CeNIne4sN/1ca5a5eoNh7bFx9Z9ad8xJbjVO+NDr5x2X/KgqpPy2/+pgcWkzKWJESg+2cqYe7VN2Po3B9AQ2FjyxKxudGZSGX3JmBq/AYm2grwUUdOPY1cV9xw77N9zClfsOn0AR4= Received: by 10.70.49.6 with SMTP id w6mr5849501wxw; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.10 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 02:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <740c3aec0606050252h780f6f63nb417e174eab1882f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:52:42 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 09:52:47 -0000 > Looks like we failed somewhere to get the word out about > devel-announce-list widely enough. It's a very low volume list meant > for important announcements. Granted, as aes mentioned, the general > discussion happened on gnome-hackers but for those who'd prefer to > just get the big announcements, the postponement[1] and new date[2] of > the SVN migration were both announced to devel-announce-list. > > [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-March/msg0000= 3.html > [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-May/msg00004.= html Then I'm very sorry to have been bothering the wrong list unnecessary. /me goes and subscribes to yet another mailing list The new Subversion migration date is fantastic news though. --=20 mvh Bj=F6rn From William.Walker@Sun.COM Tue Jun 6 10:21:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A26B3B0182 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28117-01 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C373B0A96 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k56ELg6m000827 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0F00501ZP9UE00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.11] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0F002B2ZW4FRQ0@mail-amer.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:21:38 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-id: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.586 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.586 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:21:48 -0000 Hi All: We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would like to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal to include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the missing features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also done a fair amount of stability and testing work. We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of Gnopernicus: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to address the issues that arise. Thanks! Will (Orca project lead) From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 6 21:02:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198963B02E8 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01166-08 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.206]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD9E3B0119 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so95533wxd for ; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=uMjiD2UneBstxGvHvDUjCg20B/AKOA7TrAPOlIojwLeWRAYoc8aPUZKa86K9RbBmkohVgwdRxv0WpgmxKGK/wNrfrNiB5s59ipLN64fkMZtn1R93/tdqgaWAKEH0mEqq5FOAXfvdnCNTH04zG4woQnpwJUJEFV6sGQHcZuJp1GI= Received: by 10.70.33.8 with SMTP id g8mr307306wxg; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.7 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606061802o2e6a876br82818f1864d6f50c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:02:22 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Willie Walker" In-Reply-To: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.572 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.572 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:02:26 -0000 On 6/6/06, Willie Walker wrote: > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > Gnopernicus: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html That email pretty much looks like the clincher to me; it looks to me like it resolves the only big issue I remember anyone bringing up. > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > address the issues that arise. Thanks for your awesome work. We've kind of sucked at getting the proposed modules all listed. Could you go to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Desktop and add orca (and, if you have time, the other proposed modules)? We should start getting those into the modulesets going out with releases and doing a better job of verifying the build and so forth (though I'm betting GARNOME is ahead in the game and has them included, which would be cool). As per the schedule at http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen, the "Module inclusion discussion heats up" on the week of July 12th. I can't imagine why orca wouldn't make it at this point, as it looks like you've already addressed any potential issues that could come up. But if you want to be on the safe side, just watch your d-d-l email that week and if any additional issues about orca are brought up you can address them. Hope that helps, Elijah From fcrozat@mandriva.com Wed Jun 7 11:02:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0503B0272 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22929-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office.mandriva.com (ezoffice.mandriva.com [84.14.106.134]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D433C3B0127 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trinidad.mandrakesoft.com (trinidad.mandrakesoft.com [192.168.100.216]) by office.mandriva.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4FA531 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:02:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Frederic Crozat To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Mandriva Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:02:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3-10mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:02:44 -0000 Le dimanche 04 juin 2006 à 15:26 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. a écrit : > A common [fatal] error reported by a number of applications in the > 2.15.x branch is: > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > open file '': No such file or directory > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > (object)' failed > aborting... > > Questions: > > * Is there a simple work around? > It is difficult to test 2.15.x with this error in place. > > * Any chance that this problem will be resolved any time soon? > I have seen this problem in 2.15.0, 2.15.1, and 2.15.2. You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 -- Frederic Crozat Mandriva From federico@ximian.com Wed Jun 7 12:58:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348273B0461 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31312-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B5A3B04FC for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17019 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2006 16:58:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO 164-99-120-35.boston.ximian.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2006 16:58:49 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: Frederic Crozat In-Reply-To: <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 11:54:38 -0500 Message-Id: <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:58:53 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > (object)' failed > > aborting... > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when builddir == srcdir. Federico From fcrozat@mandriva.com Wed Jun 7 13:03:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857CE3B0502 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31466-08 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office.mandriva.com (ezoffice.mandriva.com [84.14.106.134]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039683B02D9 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trinidad.mandrakesoft.com (trinidad.mandrakesoft.com [192.168.100.216]) by office.mandriva.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCABD531 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 19:03:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Frederic Crozat To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Mandriva Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:03:31 +0200 Message-Id: <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3-10mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.57 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:03:35 -0000 Le mercredi 07 juin 2006 à 11:54 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero a écrit : > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > > (object)' failed > > > aborting... > > > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 > > It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when > builddir == srcdir. Easy workaround : rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h and rebuild : tarball was shipped with an incomplete gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h file. -- Frederic Crozat Mandriva From Matt.Keenan@Sun.COM Wed Jun 7 13:26:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FB33B047D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00550-01 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F703B006D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k57HQTEv011828 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:26:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J0I00H0130ZXK@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Matt.Keenan@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:26:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.150.120.79] (vpn-129-150-120-79.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.120.79]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0J0I00AG1344JB@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:26:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:26:27 +0100 From: Matt Keenan To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-id: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060119) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:26:32 -0000 Hi, What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME community ? Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is this something that people see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better solution ? As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the moment we really would like to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the preferred format is a necessity. Cheers Matt From ross@burtonini.com Wed Jun 7 13:43:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690793B045D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01751-03 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B766B3B02BA for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from burtonini.com (althur.gotadsl.co.uk [84.12.135.175]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B06EA33500E; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:37:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (ident=unknown) by burtonini.com with esmtp (masqmail 0.2.21) id 1Fo1yK-86I-00; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:37:36 +0100 From: Ross Burton To: Matt Keenan In-Reply-To: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> References: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d" Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:37:35 +0100 Message-Id: <1149701855.8920.49.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:43:03 -0000 --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 19:26 +0100, Matt Keenan wrote: > Hi, >=20 > What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME communit= y ? >=20 > Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is=20 > this something that people > see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better=20 > solution ? >=20 > As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the=20 > moment we really would like > to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the=20 > preferred format is a > necessity. I'd say that Docbook would make a good master source, as the user guide is also written in docbook. Ross --=20 Ross Burton mail: ross@burtonini.com jabber: ross@burtonini.com www: http://www.burtonini.com./ PGP Fingerprint: 1A21 F5B0 D8D0 CFE3 81D4 E25A 2D09 E447 D0B4 33DF --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBEhw7fLQnkR9C0M98RAlH3AJ9SQGc/4xzkv/EMKc5nfQ4m9N0eawCgxL6G y/1LhGBSG7RTJhB6hFhSdBQ= =tJHS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d-- From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Wed Jun 7 14:05:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F2D3B0DCF for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03337-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B5743B0E23 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060607180513m1200pab1je>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:05:13 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:05:12 -0400 Message-Id: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.645 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.336, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.645 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:05:22 -0000 I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h * build * install The bad news is I still see the error. -Joseph =========================================================================== On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 19:03 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > Le mercredi 07 juin 2006 à 11:54 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero a écrit : > > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > > > (object)' failed > > > > aborting... > > > > > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > > > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 > > > > It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when > > builddir == srcdir. > > Easy workaround : rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h and rebuild : tarball was > shipped with an incomplete gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h file. > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From federico@ximian.com Wed Jun 7 14:42:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CB43B069F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05780-02 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178E63B0DB6 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17247 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2006 18:42:01 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO 164-99-120-35.boston.ximian.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2006 18:42:01 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:37:51 -0500 Message-Id: <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.536 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_XV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.536 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:42:04 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: > > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > * build > * install > > The bad news is I still see the error. You may need to 1. tar xvf gtk.tar.gz 2. configure; make 3. rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h 4. make 5. make install I.e. let it build, then remove the header file, then build again. Federico From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Wed Jun 7 14:47:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8E73B0E0B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06186-03 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (unknown [216.148.227.155]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4878F3B0E45 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20060607184711m15001vu4je>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:47:12 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Federico Mena Quintero In-Reply-To: <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:47:10 -0400 Message-Id: <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.608 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.376, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, TW_XV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -0.608 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:47:14 -0000 I have a sense of humor. I will give that a try. For what it's worth... Fedora/rawhide [PPC: updated daily] does not have this problem. I have expended a number of cycles examining their src RPMs, looking for the magic patch that has not yet made it upstream. Didn't find a thing. -Joseph ================================================================== On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 13:37 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: > > > > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > > * build > > * install > > > > The bad news is I still see the error. > > You may need to > > 1. tar xvf gtk.tar.gz > 2. configure; make > 3. rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > 4. make > 5. make install > > I.e. let it build, then remove the header file, then build again. > > Federico > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From j@bitron.ch Wed Jun 7 14:51:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F443B069F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06395-02 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpanel02.rubas.net (cpanel02.rubas.net [62.216.182.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9B63B050C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 80-219-211-5.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.219.211.5] helo=[192.168.1.33]) by cpanel02.rubas.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fo37q-0007ap-TH; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:51:31 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrg?= Billeter To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:52:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel02.rubas.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - bitron.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.524 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.524 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:51:48 -0000 On Mit, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: >=20 > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > * build > * install >=20 > The bad news is I still see the error.=20 Should be fixed in CVS http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/Makefile.am?r1=3D1.309&r2=3D1.310 The patch applies to Makefile.in in the 2.9.2 tarball, too. J=C3=BCrg From matthias.clasen@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 16:30:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E6A3B00C7 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12519-04 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.204]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320F03B015D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 8so229327nzo for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:30:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=LYjL12EdChuw+lZQqGKA1cluImN0sNHjc01h7M8DGB+xDSg+wAumrDC8qg7n22LA/lC/uigEi4+t5IqDUuFSmksedxwnbaDjdRgoGguMEAsbS5PB9A6xS/kmGa5JyyVHxmWZXO5FxfTVWGLv4KceoGK0Z1/cNSLdk/Ro9eJn08U= Received: by 10.37.2.14 with SMTP id e14mr1202727nzi; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.14 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:23:57 -0400 From: "Matthias Clasen" To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.508 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.092, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.508 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Federico Mena Quintero , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:30:17 -0000 On 6/7/06, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I have a sense of humor. I will give that a try. > > For what it's worth... Fedora/rawhide [PPC: updated daily] does not have > this problem. I have expended a number of cycles examining their src > RPMs, looking for the magic patch that has not yet made it upstream. > Didn't find a thing. > I didn't fix it in 2.9.2-3, I worked around it by dumping in a correct gtkbuiltincache.h after unpacking the tarball (look for SOURCE2) Matthias From matthias.clasen@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 17:43:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF013B062C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17008-09 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820093B0CA4 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so306896nzo for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=d+WFIAUU5OYshLt/IV/hRwTCOUzbrliGiCWI9t7E5m8mUfO5PB8UcfRVB6ZzKpXTvLIWf1aPeQ2SRftAAEeAodIgYJj6gy3hqZrARMmMa4m9m/dEEg0HMuHwnt1d4ue6VI+jhy4eMqhjRBqUklfQl2VSUy8zwfpgpm7JME0IY+o= Received: by 10.36.121.19 with SMTP id t19mr1310096nzc; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.14 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:07 -0400 From: "Matthias Clasen" To: "Matt Keenan" In-Reply-To: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.47 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.47 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 21:43:11 -0000 On 6/7/06, Matt Keenan wrote: > Hi, > > What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME community ? > > Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is > this something that people > see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better > solution ? > > As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the > moment we really would like > to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the > preferred format is a > necessity. > The few man pages that are shipped with the glib and gtk api docs are in docbook now, which has the advantage that we can easily include them in the api docs, too. Matthias From federico@ximian.com Thu Jun 8 21:30:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACED93B04DB for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18212-01 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043353B0E3D for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19069 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2006 01:30:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?164.99.120.169?) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Jun 2006 01:30:03 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrg?= Billeter In-Reply-To: <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 20:25:50 -0500 Message-Id: <1149816350.30645.108.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 01:30:09 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 20:52 +0200, Jürg Billeter wrote: > Should be fixed in CVS > > http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/Makefile.am?r1=1.309&r2=1.310 Excellent catch, like swatting flies with a whip. Thanks for the fix :) Federico From frandavid100@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 09:51:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61263B0423 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18107-06 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214C53B0229 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so301601uge for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=MDFIZQJpAQibpDfJtY5XAuqiQNe2+Fhc5gvr2qEhTEJuP+sClW+mqb7679oTHoDc00/RZxajkdJTWDwv8wW6EiY+Yjzlcq+PjsOsXMSMxaclaW/V9ZnuTDcAG7wX6lKocTAaZhXBLV0E6kkOOnsnBnKcG3rgLWAm8SY1pGymIgQ= Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id u9mr530800ugg; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.103? ( [84.123.96.251]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id q40sm998482ugc.2006.06.07.06.51.49; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:49 -0700 (PDT) From: David Prieto To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:47 +0200 Message-Id: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 06:37:00 -0400 Subject: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:51:54 -0000 Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it goes: First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run these programs together. As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, internet, epiphany. It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea (middle-click), epiphany. What do you think about it? Here's the original post: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/48788 From johan@svedberg.com Fri Jun 9 06:54:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC263B0121 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16742-01 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.acc.umu.se (mail.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.156]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9A33B0004 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF6652 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from suiko.acc.umu.se (suiko.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.162]) by mail.acc.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C3327 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: by suiko.acc.umu.se (Postfix, from userid 24225) id A174C803; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 From: Johan Svedberg To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at acc.umu.se X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:54:38 -0000 * Jun 09 12:37 David Prieto : > Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it > goes: > > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my > e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run > these programs together. > > As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, > internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, > internet, epiphany. > > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? You could ofcourse create desktop shortcuts or panel launchers for the applications you use most frequently. But I like the idea, another alternative might be to add a "Run application" in the right-click menu. -- Johan Svedberg, johan@svedberg.com, http://johan.svedberg.com/ From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Fri Jun 9 06:54:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05FBD3B1041 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16715-02 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B24F3B0121 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-05.sun.com (d1-emea-05.sun.com [192.18.2.115] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k59Asee9009449 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:54:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-05.sun.com by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0L00K019O99Q00@d1-emea-05.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from dhcp-226-200.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.226.200]) by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0L00J4MAB3EQ10@d1-emea-05.sun.com>; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:35 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: David Prieto Message-id: <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Organization: Sun Microsystems Ireland Ltd. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.583 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.583 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:54:46 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51 +0200, David Prieto wrote: > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse button, as not everyone has one. In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are always run when you log in? Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From jan@jgc.homeip.net Fri Jun 9 07:52:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94903B1073 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20462-09 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.fastline.no (mx2.fastline.no [82.134.2.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698923B01A7 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) X-SMTP-Auth: no Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.fastline.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1B6A00041F for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx2.fastline.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx2.fastline.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 10287-01-2 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xciton-pc2 (a80-126-167-165.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.126.167.165]) by mx2.fastline.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0ECBA000409 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Jan de Groot To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:52:29 +0200 Message-Id: <1149853949.4427.0.camel@xciton-pc2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.3.2 (20050629) (Debian) at mx2.fastline.no X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.578 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.578 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:52:28 -0000 On Fri, 2006-06-09 at 12:54 +0200, Johan Svedberg wrote: > You could ofcourse create desktop shortcuts or panel launchers for the > applications you use most frequently. But I like the idea, another > alternative might be to add a "Run application" in the right-click > menu. That, together with the middle click, just like the "open link in new tab" feature in most browsers. From ktirf@users.sf.net Fri Jun 9 09:30:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1DD63B031E for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27240-08 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from delta.deserv.net (delta.deserv.net [83.102.151.66]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A0293B0003 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.119.253.205] (helo=[10.232.104.122]) by delta.deserv.net with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Foh4a-0003JR-0k for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:30:48 +0400 Message-ID: <448977EC.3040905@users.sf.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:30:20 +0400 From: Alexey Rusakov User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-Id: ktirf@nale.ru X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.503 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.503 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:30:30 -0000 Calum Benson wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51 +0200, David Prieto wrote: > > >> It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch >> the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click >> applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea >> (middle-click), epiphany. >> >> What do you think about it? >> > > I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you > shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse > button, as not everyone has one. > What about Ctrl-LeftClick and Ctrl-Enter as alternatives? Anyway, ... > In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit > better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding > three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all > three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are > always run when you log in? > ... this is a good question :) -- Alexey "Ktirf" Rusakov From xavier.bestel@free.fr Fri Jun 9 11:52:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BFFF3B024A for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03877-05 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp13.wanadoo.fr (smtp13.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E543B026D for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from awak.dyndns.org (AGrenoble-152-1-21-70.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr [82.122.20.70]) by mwinf1304.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1F9B6700008B for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:52:32 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060609155232129.1F9B6700008B@mwinf1304.orange.fr Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=capoeira ident=stunnel4) by awak.dyndns.org with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1FojIE-0000uL-00; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:53:02 +0200 From: Xavier Bestel To: David Prieto In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:52:28 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.283 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.283 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 15:52:35 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51, David Prieto wrote: [...] > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your multiselections. Not that I advise using several mouse buttons at once. Xav From mpt@myrealbox.com Fri Jun 9 13:28:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1EA3B0268 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09915-07 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leucothea.redline.site5.com (leucothea.redline.site5.com [216.118.97.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827E73B011B for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ool-44c0bc13.dyn.optonline.net ([68.192.188.19] helo=[192.168.0.5]) by leucothea.redline.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fokm3-000296-RA; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:27:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <2873c7c3e7a66e8562d38938161412e1@myrealbox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Matthew Paul Thomas Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:26:46 -0400 To: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV. X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - leucothea.redline.site5.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - myrealbox.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:28:03 -0000 On Jun 7, 2006, at 9:51 AM, David Prieto wrote: > ... > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read > my e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually > run these programs together. You can set these programs to run automatically when you log in, using the "Startup Programs" tab of the "Sessions" preferences. (This could be much more obvious than it is, for example by giving the control panel a name better than "Sessions".) You can also add the programs to the panel at the top/bottom of the screen by clicking on an empty part of it (if there is one) with the right mouse button (if you have one) and choosing "Add to Panel...". (Again, this could be much more obvious than it is. For example, it should show up when you search the help for "how can I start programs quickly".) -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ From frandavid100@gmail.com Fri Jun 9 15:04:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74B83B00E9 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14795-04 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF323B009F for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so598739nfe for ; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=TDtsoF1S0IXExUOckOSPJ6L4SnxSBbw786CXC1ndr+VxKZgYeje5qx7P11UN3LkGDhYHCfV80q30mhUWDoV3egDP2esip+uQBLnrkcBHjtfwFaTgR/FrNj292b5eejPlWanVL+zj76zZQv61da7Nof8Kkt3xt0+Bxr8klD22wWQ= Received: by 10.48.238.9 with SMTP id l9mr2640423nfh; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.103? ( [84.123.96.251]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id l21sm1702180nfc.2006.06.09.12.04.43; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: David Prieto To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 21:03:36 +0200 Message-Id: <1149879816.5224.2.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 19:04:47 -0000 I'm sorry, I replied to Calum instead of sending my mail to the list: _____________________________________________________________________ > I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you > shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse > button, as not everyone has one. Well, in Nautilus for example you can open a folder while closing its folder if you double-click on it with your middle button OR if you double-shift+left-click. Why not do the same here? Users without a middle button could just use shift+left-click as a replacement. > In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit > better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding > three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all > three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are > always run when you log in? Well, those are quite subjective reasons but I don't like launchers on the panel, aesthetically. Besides, I use only one panel and space is scarce on it. Creating a launcher for all three programs would not be very useful since I could want to launch just two of them (epi could be already open), or I could want to launch amule too. It's just not flexible. About setting them to launch when logging in, I already said it in my first message: I could just be somewhere else and yet be logged in, maybe because amule is running. Then I could get to the computer and want to read the forums, get my mails... you get the point. I know my reasons could be minor for some, but well, they're good for me. From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Sun Jun 11 05:05:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580113B00DC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30987-09 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DC093B0092 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.11] helo=salmon.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 11 Jun 2006 10:03:54 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:03:53 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: David Prieto In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.592 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.592 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:05:07 -0000 On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, David Prieto wrote: > Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:47 +0200 > From: David Prieto > To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Subject: opening a program with the middle button > > Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it > goes: > > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my > e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run > these programs together. > > As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, > internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, > internet, epiphany. > > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? Mozilla allows you to bookmark groups and open several pages at once. Perhaps we need a way to create a launcher which launches more than one program? (I guess you could do that using a script.) Alternatively you could either set those programs to automatically start every session, or more easily save your session on logout so it comes back up the same when you login. I've done similar things this way in the past. -- Alan H. From sri@aracnet.com Sun Jun 11 11:44:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251F43B0125 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16813-02 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B6B3B008B for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-21-239-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.239.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5BFgSHT018681; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:42:29 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Willie Walker In-Reply-To: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:41:41 -0700 Message-Id: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.339 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.049, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.339 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sri@aracnet.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:44:49 -0000 So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? sri [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it seems kind of early to me. On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:21 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > Hi All: > > We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would like > to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal to > include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the missing > features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also done a > fair amount of stability and testing work. > > We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on > orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html > > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > Gnopernicus: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html > > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > address the issues that arise. > > Thanks! > > Will > (Orca project lead) > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Sri Ramkrishna From sri@aracnet.com Sun Jun 11 11:49:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001E13B00E0 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16636-10 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ruby.spiritone.com (ruby.spiritone.com [216.99.193.130]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759C03B0084 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-21-239-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.239.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by ruby.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5BFlwTA018262; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:47:59 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:47:11 -0700 Message-Id: <1150040831.16558.6.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.407 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.116, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.407 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sri@aracnet.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:49:30 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 10:03 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > > What do you think about it? > > Mozilla allows you to bookmark groups and open several pages at once. > Perhaps we need a way to create a launcher which launches more than one > program? (I guess you could do that using a script.) Anything that would require programming would not be very user friendly. I wonder if something like "launcher group" or something where you can create a launcher that runs many programs in sequence with the option of having each application start depending on whether the last application actually ran. The value is still somewhat questionable in creating such a thing. I'm not sure if many people would use such a thing. Sometimes I wish we could add such features via plugin for some enterprising 3rd party to write. sri -- Sri Ramkrishna From shaunm@gnome.org Sun Jun 11 14:15:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA23D3B01A2 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27106-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.wolfram.com (webmail.wolfram.com [140.177.205.37]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F493B0195 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from recto.housenet.network (DHCP-74-136-213-67.insightbb.com [74.136.213.67] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by webmail.wolfram.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5BIDn5t008851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:13:50 -0500 From: Shaun McCance To: sri@aracnet.com In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:13:42 -0500 Message-Id: <1150049622.16073.14.camel@recto.housenet.network> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.106, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 18:15:20 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 08:41 -0700, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > sri > > > [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it > seems kind of early to me. The mail from Thomas Friehoff at Baum[1] is pretty much a clincher. If the Gnopernicus team is behind Orca, and favors Orca being Gnopernicus's successor, then it really isn't a question of "if", only "when". What we need to think about now is the migration path for our users. Many users have vested time and resources into making Gnopernicus work for them, so unless we can have a completely seamless forced transation (a difficult thing to do), we are going to see users using Gnopernicus for some time. So we do need to consider how we're going to accomodate those users as we shift stuff over to Orca. This means thinking about our accessibility control panels, how we present our accessibility tools to the users, and how we're documenting our accessibility stack. Perhaps an IRC meeting could be set up among the Orca developers, the Gnopernicus developers, and a couple of user interface and documentation people. Hash out a plan, report it back to the community, and make it happen. I'm excited. Are you excited? I'm excited. Let's make good things happen. -- Shaun [1] This one: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:21 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > > Hi All: > > > > We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would > like > > to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal > to > > include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the > missing > > features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also > done a > > fair amount of stability and testing work. > > > > We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on > > orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html > > > > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > > Gnopernicus: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > > > as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html > > > > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to > the > > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is > still a > > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to > adoption > > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > > address the issues that arise. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Will > > (Orca project lead) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > desktop-devel-list mailing list > > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > -- > Sri Ramkrishna > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From danilo@gnome.org Sun Jun 11 15:27:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 323E13B01BF for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30006-01 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from avet.kvota.net (unknown [147.91.15.40]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A100D3B00F7 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by avet.kvota.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 882887C2A4; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:06:24 +0200 (CEST) To: sri@aracnet.com References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> From: danilo@gnome.org (=?utf-8?q?Danilo_=C5=A0egan?=) Mail-Followup-To: sri@aracnet.com, Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:06:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> (Sri Ramkrishna's message of "Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:41:41 -0700") Message-ID: <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:27:37 -0000 Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. Who are we to argue them? ;) Cheers, Danilo From newren@gmail.com Sun Jun 11 19:06:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC5C3B0253 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07553-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.195]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B4103B01CC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so906381wxd for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=fiCZ1GWCGSwxPYc+Wf7HtEdlTKk8eW/Ob7qlq52akIeZ/Ni6ap/5Ds64jor+Jdc7/Jl8P7zXudzyaVaCjbTRTEk2s1QnbwKDPSsO0Zk+94ETijxhEa2rverDJCpnloHBkRMhENFP5zm6Cb/PAiy+//TcZTXdMVuHzvte1bmEf/g= Received: by 10.70.62.1 with SMTP id k1mr5817701wxa; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.89.16 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 17:05:43 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: sri@aracnet.com In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.465 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_JH=0.077, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.465 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:06:46 -0000 On 6/11/06, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? I did respond[2] but I think your email points out some potential confusion in the community worth addressing. > [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it > seems kind of early to me. Actually, (application) module proposal time has come and passed. We're now in the extended module evaluation period. In past releases, the proposal deadline and module freeze were so close together that we weren't ever even close to actually meeting the module freeze deadline. The decision would always come like a month afterwards when we were deep into freezes. So, we changed things this time around[3]. As per the release schedule[4], new application modules needed to have been proposed by April 24th; we have a longer module evaluation period, module discussion will heat up on July 10th to discuss any lingering issues, the release team meets the following week with the community input, and module choice is frozen July 24th. I believe all the modules that have been proposed have been added to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Desktop and http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Bindings. If anyone spots a missing module, please add it. Also, it'd be great if everyone could build and test the proposed modules[5]. Thanks, Elijah [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-June/msg00009.html [3] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-April/msg00000.html [4] http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen [5] Along those lines, I updated the meta-gnome-proposed module in jhbuild just this last week to assist with that. However, it's missing gtk-sharp and tomboy, which should probably be fixed somehow. It's similar to the missing gtk2-perl and gtk-java issue, which I also don't know quite how to solve. I'm pretty sure there's a bug I filed somewhere with some advice from James that I said I'd follow up on but which I never got around to. From murrayc@murrayc.com Mon Jun 12 02:39:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC333B015B for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22320-05 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com (webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com [66.33.201.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA1A3B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.murrayc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5C02C21B; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 194.138.18.132 (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user murrayc@murrayc.com) by webmail.murrayc.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:38:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> In-Reply-To: <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:38:41 +0200 (CEST) From: "Murray Cumming" To: sri@aracnet.com, "Willie Walker" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.52 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.52 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 06:39:40 -0000 > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of confusion. Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? > Who are we to argue them? ;) Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 05:43:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE3203B00A6 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28785-07 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FCE13B00E6 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5C9hNTO024786 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 03:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J0Q00F01QZPDT@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:43:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-176.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.176]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J0Q002ILR0ARL@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:43:22 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:44:30 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, gnome-18n-list@gnome.org Message-id: <1150105469.7019.1.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: ATK and AT-SPI branched for gnome-2-14 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:43:59 -0000 Hi: ATK and AT-SPI have branched for gnome-2.14. New stuff is on HEAD, stable development should use the 2-14 branch. I haven't made a new release since the branch yet, perhaps today (AT-SPI HEAD depends, for the moment, on ATK HEAD). regards Bill From sbrabec@suse.cz Mon Jun 12 05:51:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944163B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28662-09 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.suse.cz (styx.suse.cz [82.119.242.94]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9660E3B000D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hammer.suse.cz (hammer.suse.cz [10.20.1.86]) by mail.suse.cz (SUSE CR ESMTP Mailer) with ESMTP id 3AD7062805F; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Stanislav Brabec To: Xavier Bestel In-Reply-To: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: SuSE CR, s. r. o. Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:06 +0200 Message-Id: <1150105806.13727.15.camel@hammer.suse.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:51:09 -0000 Xavier Bestel wrote: > Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: > right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the > right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your multiselections. > > Not that I advise using several mouse buttons at once. It was a nice feature allowing to do more actions in the menu during one rolling down. And a nice Amiga Multiselect utility also enabled multiple selections outside menu, in file lists, file managers etc. without using of Shift button: - Place mouse pointer over the first item you want to select - Press left button - Keep the left button pressed and press right button - Release left button, keeping right button pressed - Use left button clicking to add toggle items selection, keeping right button pressed - Release right button Both these features I often miss in GTK+. -- Best Regards / S pozdravem, Stanislav Brabec software developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SuSE CR, s. r. o. e-mail: sbrabec@suse.cz Drahobejlova 27 tel: +420 296 542 382 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 296 542 374 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 10:42:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D43A3B009D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06770-05 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0743B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-09.sun.com ([192.18.2.119]) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CDrF4H002463 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-09.sun.com by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00L012HDZ700@d1-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([129.150.117.3]) by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R0014U2KQRX50@d1-emea-09.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:10 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Xavier Bestel Message-id: <681C6D4D-8762-49C9-9187-3DCBF1B04022@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.582 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.016, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.582 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:42:37 -0000 On 9 Jun 2006, at 16:52, Xavier Bestel wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51, David Prieto wrote: > [...] >> It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch >> the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click >> applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea >> (middle-click), epiphany. > > Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: > right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the > right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your > multiselections. Yep, that was handy alright... in fact you can do that in GTK menus too, but only if you use the keyboard: Space will check the focused checkbox/radiobutton menu item and keep the menu open; Enter will check it and close the menu. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From jdub@waugh.id.au Mon Jun 12 14:13:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A90F3B0386 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23613-04 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710B83B07BD for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net [150.101.121.112]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C552C3C432 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:03 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3C4D940DB; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:00 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:00 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060612180600.GA22122@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-23-686 i686 Reply-By: Fri Jun 16 04:05:44 EST 2006 X-Uptime: 04:05:44 up 11 days, 3:57, 7 users, load average: 0.37, 0.18, 0.11 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:13:45 -0000 > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. See the background on a11y list. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Compassionate Conservative: I don't know what that is, sounds like a Volvo with a gun rack." - Robin Williams From DonScorgie@Blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jun 12 14:15:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843013B00FD for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23885-01 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D4D3B0738 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.143] (helo=anti-virus02-10) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Fpqro-0008HB-Vo for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:10:25 +0100 Received: from [82.41.205.39] (helo=[192.168.1.1]) by asmtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1Fpqrl-00080P-6Q for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:10:21 +0100 From: Don Scorgie To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:11:05 +0100 Message-Id: <1150135865.11844.7.camel@Madaline> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.517 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.517 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:15:33 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: > > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? The gnopernicus maintainers commented on the ocra list (linked to in this thread somewhere): http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Don > > > Who are we to argue them? ;) > > > Murray Cumming > murrayc@murrayc.com > www.murrayc.com > www.openismus.com > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From newren@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 15:08:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50EF53B0345 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26293-10 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B048A3B0343 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1028979wxd for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=TgVzJyw224nRJqXUuu+ThZrYi2XXmnlbm/MRSEN8qb2JI2E2qmGazGo/Wt994nfgnZRbDS6Lz76e+I4uqmsAya1REm1V9JJUjL1aj+jeskwwsoYUJvLb83onPB5WO5DLLgjqPXvsZ1w7ERN/+Cb5Id03ai+G3rD7i55tA+0ETcM= Received: by 10.70.14.5 with SMTP id 5mr3881692wxn; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.89.16 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606121207vad8be21t6b0782b3159c835b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:07:33 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Murray Cumming" In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:08:32 -0000 On 6/12/06, Murray Cumming wrote: > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html (Which Will linked to in this post: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-June/msg00008.html) From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 15:27:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 662903B00E5 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27322-03 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B2CA3B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-06.sun.com ([192.18.39.116]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CIohjx021697 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-06.sun.com by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00101FW17D00@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.26.228] by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R00CEDGCI6530@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:42 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: Murray Cumming Message-id: <448DB782.2070303@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:27:15 -0000 Hi Murray , >>> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we >>> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? >>> >> It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, >> especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. >> > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? > Please see this message from Thomas Friehoff, the VP of Engineering at BAUM, maintainers of Gnopernicus: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. From shaunm@gnome.org Mon Jun 12 16:04:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8775F3B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28570-06 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wolfram.com (mailhub.wolfram.com [140.177.10.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E573B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shaunmlx.wri.wolfram.com (shaunmlx.wri.wolfram.com [140.177.4.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by wolfram.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CK3UoC010479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:03:31 -0500 From: Shaun McCance To: Murray Cumming In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:03:30 -0500 Message-Id: <1150142610.22619.0.camel@shaunmlx> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:04:30 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: > > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? Right here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html -- Shaun From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 18:42:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909A03B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01759-06 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710533B00A5 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-05.sun.com (d1-emea-05.sun.com [192.18.2.115] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CMe23L023927 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-05.sun.com by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00H01LMM9J00@d1-emea-05.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([194.125.72.67]) by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R00DP3QYQQZ60@d1-emea-05.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:02 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:39:58 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Murray Cumming Message-id: <6516EFE3-F4F7-49C8-B0D9-B73C8C4E2DC7@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.56 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.56 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:42:34 -0000 On 12 Jun 2006, at 07:38, Murray Cumming wrote: > >> Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: >> >>> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). >>> Are we >>> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? >> >> It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, >> especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. Shaun posted the evidence earlier in the thread :) http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From gnome@nextreality.net Mon Jun 12 23:35:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088263B0009; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08673-05; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E478D3B0010; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 5FE5E35904; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:34:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id C501C35901; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 21:34:30 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: release-team@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list , GNOME Documentation , gnome-i18n@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500001, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_LR=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: bug buddy branched X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:35:51 -0000 Bug buddy has been branched. gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From andrew@operationaldynamics.com Tue Jun 13 01:51:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151553B0150 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12131-02 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay02.pair.com (relay02.pair.com [209.68.5.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B40DB3B0120 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13902 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2006 05:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO procyon) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 13 Jun 2006 05:43:56 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 150.101.122.233 From: Andrew Cowie To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Operational Dynamics Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:59:18 +1000 Message-Id: <1150174758.5806.4.camel@procyon.operationaldynamics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.144, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_BG=0.077, TW_GT=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: Subject: What up, java bindings? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:51:33 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 17:05 -0600, in a thread originally about "Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16", Elijah Newren wrote: > [5] Along those lines, ... > It's similar to the missing gtk2-perl and gtk-java issue, which I also > don't know quite how to solve. Oh? What's up? More to the point, what do you need us to do? Not that we have large team, but I'll do my best. ++ As an OT aside: our libraries are called glib-java, cairo-java, libgtk-java, libgnome-java, libglade-java, and libgconf-java being our release set at the moment, with libvte-java, and libeds-java joining this cycle. They're all on ftp.gnome.org. Quite the grab bag, with most following the libBLAH-java pattern, which was I believe at the request of the GNOME release team of the day when they multiplexed the previously straight forward "java-gtk" and "java-gnome" into the above mess. Before my time. A number have people have pointed out that naming like glade-java, along the lines of what the Mono boys and girls used (glade-sharp) would be nice. I agree, but at this point, given that the distros all adjusted their packages about 18 months ago when java-gnome shattered into its constituent pieces, that changing the naming pattern would be a large and painful change without that much benefit. [Not that I needed the scars to reinforce the obvious, but I was doing the Gentoo ebuilds then and it was quite a pain to shuffle and create that many new packages. I am quite conscious of the cost of change especially when it comes to package naming, etc. Given the enormous hassle it is to prepare up 6 headed for 8+ libraries every time we cut a java-gnome release, I'm not in a rush to add to my problems.] So, libBLAH-java it is... unless, as a part of a GNOME wide cleanup, we adopt a common naming scheme for bindings packages. If that's the case, then I'm sure the powers that be can align the stars to get package names changed in every distro simultaneously. Yup. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Technology strategy, managing change, establishing procedures, and executing successful upgrades to mission critical business infrastructure. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ Sydney New York Toronto London From danilo@gnome.org Tue Jun 13 05:17:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58993B008F for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17857-05 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from supa.sekjur.com (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7FE3B000A for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D81421F205; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown by localhost (amavisd-new, unix socket) id client-EFXCVfB9; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.121] (dhcp-87-116-155-154.marshall-bg.customer.sbb.co.yu [87.116.155.154]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2CAD21F1F3; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Danilo Segan To: Murray Cumming In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sekjur.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:17:28 -0000 У пон, 12. 06 2006. у 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming пише: > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. As pointed to in original e-mail: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html "We support the Orca team's proposal to make Orca the default screen reader / magnifier on the GNOME desktop in GNOME 2.16 - and for Orca to be the spiritual and logical successor to Gnopernicus." Perhaps I am trusting e-mail exchange too much? (Though, I don't think I am ;) > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? No, I didn't mean it like that. Though, if they didn't actually send the above message (we all know how easy it is to forge e-mail headers), they'd have certainly replied so far. Cheers, Danilo From William.Walker@Sun.COM Tue Jun 13 11:55:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468343B000C; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28918-08; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E903B00D9; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-02.sun.com ([192.18.108.176]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5DFsBuL025314; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0T00J012NLRP00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM); Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0T009D82UA4MV4@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:54:09 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Danilo Segan Message-id: <1150214050.5017.16.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: Cc: sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Murray Cumming Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:55:14 -0000 > No, I didn't mean it like that. Though, if they didn't actually send > the above message (we all know how easy it is to forge e-mail headers), > they'd have certainly replied so far. I can assure you that the message is indeed for real as we've had telephone conversations with Thomas and the Gnopernicus team regarding this transition. In addition, if it were fake, I can assure you that I would also let you know. Thanks! Will From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Tue Jun 13 16:27:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6215E3B03D8 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05552-08 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E17C3B03F0 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-06.sun.com ([192.18.108.180]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5DKQxAT005525 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0T00501EYOJY00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0T009Q0FGXLT93@mail-amer.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: GNOME Desktop Message-id: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.703 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.639] X-Spam-Score: -1.703 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 20:27:55 -0000 As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video plugins are currently in beta-test. http://shop.fluendo.com/ While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed to a per-use license). They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the desktop market. In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that represents such a small percentage of desktop users. Is this worth exploring? Brian From rbultje@ronald.bitfreak.net Wed Jun 14 15:47:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DF33B0112 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10759-04 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (unknown [24.29.109.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D623B01B6 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (cpe-66-65-0-167.nyc.res.rr.com [66.65.0.167]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5EJjjTm009201; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: "Ronald S. Bultje" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:43:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 (2.2.3-4.fc4) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:47:12 -0000 On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). [..] > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald From sri@aracnet.com Thu Jun 15 00:34:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CCB3B00CA for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11360-03 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [216.99.193.114]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC40D3B00B7 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [127.0.0.1]) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5F4XmTw009989; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:48 -0700 Received: (from sri@localhost) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k5F4XkZ5009987; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: "Ronald S. Bultje" Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 04:34:09 -0000 On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could license it. I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have probably heard it before. :-) sri From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Thu Jun 15 17:16:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995B83B00D0 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00998-06 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF1E3B006C for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5FLFCvC005262 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0X004016M4PP00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0X00AK171AVSV0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-reply-to: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: Sriram Ramkrishna Message-id: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.521 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.521 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:16:15 -0000 >>> Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a >>> license with the GNOME community >> >> Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Is there a more appropriate forum for discussing a topic like this? Apologies if my previous email was inappropriate. I certainly do not want to encourage the GNOME community to violate any important ideals. Obviously one ideal that it wouldn't violate is giving our end-users the best desktop experience possible. It seems a bit hard to really do this without finding and supporting creative ways to allow popular desktop IP to integrate with the desktop. But "allowing" IP to integrate doesn't mean that the GNOME community needs to support it financially, obviously. I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. I just wanted to mention the idea and see if there might be interest. From the responses, it seems like there isn't much. But that is fine since end users can go to the Fluendo store to purchase the plugins directly if they want them. > I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have > probably heard it before. :-) While I certainly understand it would be bad for the GNOME community to support non-free projects at the expense of free projects, I didn't think I was suggesting anything that would detract from free software. If enough users/companies are willing to pony up the money to pay for a license, then this isn't taking away from money earmarked for other free projects. In fact, the Foundation could reasonably insist that some extra money to fund free projects would be required for them to consider supporting a non-free project. Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely make free software more popular rather than less. Since the license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't work well. The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate with the desktop. Fluendo is already doing this, so to a degree the need is being met. Really the opportunity to work more closely together only makes it more affordable for everyone. Brian From thomas@apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 07:29:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFD53B0007 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27074-01 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.es6.egwn.net (server02.es6.egwn.net [195.10.6.12]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731023B000B for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net (server07.fr4.egwn.net [62.39.85.77]) by mx1.es6.egwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9EF4F82E3; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 5261F83C17; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server07.fr4.egwn.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16333-39; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thread.fluendo.lan (core.fluendo.com [195.10.6.237]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 46C3683C14; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thomas.fluendo.lan (thomas.fluendo.lan [192.168.1.10]) by thread.fluendo.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A96BFE8F; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:10 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Thomas Vander Stichele To: Sriram Ramkrishna In-Reply-To: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:08 +0200 Message-Id: <1150457348.23862.202.camel@otto.amantes> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: By amavis at egwn.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.683 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_SBL=3.16] X-Spam-Score: 0.683 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:29:46 -0000 Hi, > On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > > to a per-use license). > > [..] > > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > > license with the GNOME community > > > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Where is the start of this thread ? Nobody I've asked seems to have anything before Ronald's mail. Thomas From thomas@apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 10:31:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32B83B0076 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31386-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.es6.egwn.net (server02.es6.egwn.net [195.10.6.12]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163283B0011 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net (server07.fr4.egwn.net [62.39.85.77]) by mx1.es6.egwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E544F8353; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id AED6483C18; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server07.fr4.egwn.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18233-24; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thread.fluendo.lan (core.fluendo.com [195.10.6.237]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 9CCCD83C14; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thomas.fluendo.lan (thomas.fluendo.lan [192.168.1.10]) by thread.fluendo.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20788FE8F; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Thomas Vander Stichele To: "Ronald S. Bultje" In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:54 +0200 Message-Id: <1150468254.23862.219.camel@otto.amantes> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: By amavis at egwn.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.683 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_SBL=3.16] X-Spam-Score: 0.683 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:31:37 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 15:43 -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. I agree with Ronald (though violate is overstating it :)) that this should not be done by the GNOME foundation as such. It would make sense for a group of distributions to team up in some form to do this - but the GNOME Foundation should be about Free Software. (For those of you like me that didn't get Brian's original mail - he was asking what people think about the possibility of some distributors giving money to the GNOME foundation so that the GNOME foundation could pay the license fees for proprietary codecs) Thomas From jdub@waugh.id.au Fri Jun 16 13:08:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A48363B00E0 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07045-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8343B0131 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net [150.101.121.112]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2123C28B for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:13 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C1860200E6; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060616170703.GM17421@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Reply-By: Tue Jun 20 03:04:24 EST 2006 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-23-686 i686 X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Uptime: 03:04:24 up 15 days, 2:56, 9 users, load average: 0.13, 0.05, 0.02 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:08:00 -0000 > I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that > the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single > license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like > this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save > money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. It seems more appropriate that this be pursued by distributors and Fluendo themselves (distributing directly to end users) than GNOME. We don't control the integration or immediate end-user experience, so there's not a lot we can do that will directly impact users here - unless you can think of other opportunities. If you mean "us" to include all distributors as well, that is a different issue. :-) (btw, you wrote a very long mail for a few short points) - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "You can't just find cake. Cake isn't naturally occuring." - Penny Arcade From cjb@mrao.cam.ac.uk Fri Jun 16 15:50:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7F03B00DC for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18185-06 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk (mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk [131.111.48.8]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8473B0074 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skye.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.48.158] ident=mail) by mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FrKJZ-0001YY-20; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:09 +0100 Received: from islay.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.48.119]) by skye.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1FrKJY-0004jt-00; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 To: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> From: Chris Ball Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> (Brian Cameron's message of "Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Social Property, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , Sriram Ramkrishna , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:50:09 -0000 >> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Brian Cameron said: > Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely > make free software more popular rather than less. Since the > license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be > terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't > work well. "Those who would give up freedom to purchase a little temporary popularity deserve neither." I think that Sriram's right about talking to the distributions. You'll find that most (Fedora, etc) have already committed to not ship patent-encumbered codecs regardless of whether a license is available, though. See, for example, the lack of success ESR had with suggesting that Fedora license an MP3 decoder: http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2006-March/msg01286.html - Chris. -- Chris Ball From murrayc@murrayc.com Fri Jun 16 17:51:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6923B0106 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22708-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarthymail-a5.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-176.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.176]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB5B3B01D2 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noname (p5497EE72.dip.t-dialin.net [84.151.238.114]) by swarthymail-a5.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B6E109EAC; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Murray Cumming To: Brian Cameron In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:50:21 +0200 Message-Id: <1150494621.5811.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.481 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.118, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.481 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , Sriram Ramkrishna , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:51:08 -0000 On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 16:15 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: [snip] > The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with > multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate > with the desktop. [snip] Ignoring the rest of this thread, the start of which hasn't reached my inbox yet... We are not against "Intellectual property", or copyright in general. This is the kind of phrasing I'd expect in a "Linux is for communists" article. We just like to license our copyrighted stuff in a particular way, and generally prefer software that does that too. So I think you really need to avoid this odd terminology, if it's not what you mean, or understand. Murray From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Fri Jun 16 18:13:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56933B04E4 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23880-02 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3029D3B05DF for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-03.sun.com ([192.18.108.177]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5GLTqdA022116 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0Z00F012706I00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0Z00JL52DRY1G0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:29:54 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-reply-to: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: thomas@apestaart.org Message-id: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.703 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.639] X-Spam-Score: -1.703 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:13:13 -0000 Thomas: I was going to point you towards the archives, but the GNOME archives seem all messed up - no emails before today. Here was my original email. It seems after the responses, that there is little interest in providing encumbered plugins on GNOME distros. While not exactly the answer I was hoping for, I appreciate people exploring the idea and explaining the state of affairs to me. Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. Brian Brian Cameron wrote: > > As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP > plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video > plugins are currently in beta-test. > > http://shop.fluendo.com/ > > While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs > (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that > the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows > IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if > users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). > > They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use > UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the > plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all > UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the > desktop market. > > In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization > like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could > be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian > Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible > if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked > out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME > distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich > experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in > donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? > > As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have > similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own > RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount > of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real > with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely > that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and > RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in > a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems > it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if > they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that > represents such a small percentage of desktop users. > > Is this worth exploring? > > Brian > From newren@gmail.com Fri Jun 16 19:33:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C7A43B06BB for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27362-02 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4A83B06CE for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so554080wxd for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.132.14 with SMTP id f14mr4808064wxd; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.102.9 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:26:36 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_TK=0.077, TW_YG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:33:40 -0000 Hi everyone, This is just a quick email to ask for help in improving the dogfoodability of our tarballs and CVS. See the lists below my verbose explanation if you want to jump to the details. :) Currently, buildability from either tarballs or CVS is pretty poor; I wouldn't consider either in a dogfoodable state. Most of it is just small things that are easily fixed, but it really adds up. We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we just fix the modules??"). There have also been multiple cases where we have had to revert modules to older versions. It's worth noting that not all is bad -- a quick search shows that there are over two dozen build bugs that have been fixed in the last week and that's only counting the ones that I filed. So people are definitely working hard on this. We'd just like to ask for some extra help where possible to clean up the remainder of the issues (in fact, a bunch of them already have patches...). Luis also wanted me to say: I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole release until they are all fixed. The email should stress that time-based releases only work if the code is dogfoodable all the time. I'd suggest requesting a volunteer to scream at d-d-l every time tinderbox breaks. IMHO, publicly shaming those who break the build is the only way you're going to achieve regular buildability- bugzilla is insufficient. Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gtkmm 344788 (and 344787) simple build warnings gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-vfs 344349 checks for selinux aren't robust gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x pygtk 344845 (probably fixed now by pygtk-2.15.2) deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) Problems in non-release-set modules: ----------------------------------- rhythmbox 343718 partially fixed, but fix has new problems rhythmbox 345036 last released tarball won't build under 2.15.x From rdepantalon@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 19:52:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDEE3B000C for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03892-01 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372463B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so2191648nzo for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=kSddZwdPfx/WyIQpZeK81Xawz3TozY9KqS04dlWboeOVpJ3aaRLpDx/0dYKz3/feqSN+r6rxBHrdlPTaPOIWO4MsPINgNKuMajC4hM/g6nVo62d/l708y/OXodJ0MXIk/YSGVlYs3vVaS56GB65uLTQU0IOaufzFWiJhplelOpo= Received: by 10.36.216.6 with SMTP id o6mr2797570nzg; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.15.72 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:52:01 +0200 From: "Rousseau de Pantalon" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.804 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_00_10=0.795, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.804 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:30:21 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:52:53 -0000 ------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Gnome Developers, I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version. End-users hate decisions. In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd. Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown. Step back. Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested. Step back. Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns. This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do. Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out. This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful. It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John ! Now for the good news: I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell. I like it very much. Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it. Kind regards, Rousseau de Pantalon. ------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Gnome Developers,

I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version.
End-users hate decisions.
In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd.

Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown.
Step back.
Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested.
Step back.

Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns.
This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do.

Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out.
This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful.
It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in
much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma.

I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John !

Now for the good news:
I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell.
I like it very much.

Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it.


Kind regards,
  Rousseau de Pantalon.


------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237-- From james.henstridge@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 05:39:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 294AE3B06EB for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16649-01 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27B33B06B7 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so605960wxd for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.30.12 with SMTP id d12mr5397726wxd; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 17:37:17 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Rousseau de Pantalon" Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 20cb2d36a3ec3620 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.585 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.585 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:39:03 -0000 On 13/06/06, Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. > It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of > devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in > much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. > > I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John > Ellis: Thanx John ! Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective with hotplugable hardware, since you don't need to configure separate applets for each drive. Furthermore, the new applet works better with the rest of the desktop: 1. it can see all the drives that Nautilus can 2. it can unmount a volume even when a Nautilus window is open for the volume. If it is missing drives, that would mean that Nautilus can't see those drives in its "computer" view either. This would be a bug to fix in gnome-vfs (which would fix both the drive mounter and Nautilus). James. From decaycell@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 09:41:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5333B013A for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23044-07 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4693B00A6 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so1975371uge for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.9 with SMTP id c9mr23610ugj; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.0.0.7? ( [217.132.240.49]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id y7sm4378445ugc.2006.06.17.06.40.32; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A Framework for Desktop Syndication From: Yaron Tausky To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:07 +0300 Message-Id: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.042 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.042 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:41:23 -0000 Hi, I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps if you think this is all rubbish. :-) On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. -- Yaron Tausky From davyd@bridgewayconsulting.com.au Sat Jun 17 12:36:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D143B0165; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27617-08; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au [203.56.14.38]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164FF3B0083; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A7FE22E8004; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 (WST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 From: Davyd Madeley To: release-team@gnome.org Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.263 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-2.742, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=0.827, RCVD_IN_WHOIS_BOGONS=2.43, UNIQUE_WORDS=2.347] X-Spam-Score: 0.263 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:13 -0000 On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the new libxklavier). --d -- Davyd Madeley http://www.davyd.id.au/ 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Sat Jun 17 15:14:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B47B3B00FD; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04221-08; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F663B010F; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060617191412m1200a7tike>; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:14:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Davyd Madeley In-Reply-To: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:11 -0400 Message-Id: <1150571651.7998.6.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.654 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.345, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.654 X-Spam-Level: Cc: release-team@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:14:57 -0000 The only people who do do not make mistakes are dead. We do appreciate your contributions to open source. Onwards, -Joseph ============================================================================ On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 18:25 +0800, Davyd Madeley wrote: > On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > > > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x > > I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the > new libxklavier). > > --d > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From dodji.seketeli@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:10:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245C03B0178 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06436-02 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.193]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEBBB3B0207 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so598956wxd for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.32.20 with SMTP id f20mr5883880wxf; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.1 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:10:05 +0200 From: "dodji Seketeli" Sender: dodji.seketeli@gmail.com To: "Yaron Tausky" Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> X-Google-Sender-Auth: c517aee610ca8ae6 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.151, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:10:24 -0000 Hello, This sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe you should bring the developer of applications like liferea into the loop. There is certainly something to be shared with them. This kind of API could simplify the code base of apps like liferea and allow other applications to provide syndication to their users, at a very low development cost. Dodji. On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: > Hi, > I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the > use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified > intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's > database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is > for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can > think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. > I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think > there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps > if you think this is all rubbish. :-) > > On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this > seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to > do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not > integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. > > -- > Yaron Tausky > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From nudrema@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:33:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6F53B0337 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07353-02 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp40.mobistarmail.be (smtp40.mobistarmail.be [193.252.23.61]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFED3B0061 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (unknown [212.224.135.202]) by mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A9A00700008B; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060617203111694.A9A00700008B@mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be Message-ID: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:08 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060612) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rousseau de Pantalon Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.971 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.441, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.069] X-Spam-Score: -1.971 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:33:01 -0000 Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. Well, it actually is, especially when you don't show volume icons on your desktop (it's more convenient than showing the "network" place to unmount the volume) This reminds me of two issues : the impossibility to show *only* the volume icons (and not the remote location ones, see bug #159245), and the missing context menu of the places menu (yeah, context menu of menu sounds weird, but it would be great to be able to unmount a volume by right-clicking on its entry in the places menu...) From gnome@nextreality.net Sat Jun 17 18:35:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD3C3B0485; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13210-09; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A40DF3B0321; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 361E035904; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:34:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C8335901; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:34:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44948375.80400@nextreality.net> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:34:29 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: release-team@gnome.org Subject: Re: bug buddy branched References: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> In-Reply-To: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_LR=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-i18n@gnome.org, GNOME Documentation , desktop-devel-list X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:35:21 -0000 This never made it to my mailbox, so I am resending. Brent Smith wrote: > Bug buddy has been branched. > > gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release > HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development > will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From jdub@waugh.id.au Sun Jun 18 06:13:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29A53B0776 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17209-03 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 406B33B015A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (unknown [81.80.162.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5E23D85D for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:11:51 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8D347410D; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:11:48 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:11:48 +0200 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet Message-ID: <20060618101148.GB19478@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 i686 Reply-By: Wed Jun 21 12:09:21 CEST 2006 X-Uptime: 12:09:21 up 53 min, 5 users, load average: 0.11, 0.17, 0.24 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.543 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.543 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:13:17 -0000 > Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to > the radio-buttuns. I was pushing for a solution that sits somewhere in the middle of those points for Ubuntu, but for various reasons the single dialogue approach was taken. Separate dialogues for 'turn off' and 'log out' make sense, but making them very distinct (as with the Ubuntu or better, Windows XP) dialogues would be a great incremental improvement to what we already have in 2.14. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ Perl: Making thick Windows admins redundant since 1987. From jdub@waugh.id.au Sun Jun 18 06:42:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72523B0AF0 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19039-06 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96AB3B09F2 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (unknown [81.80.162.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EEC83D862; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:14:05 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 09DF2410D; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:14:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:14:03 +0200 From: Jeff Waugh To: Elijah Newren Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: Elijah Newren , Gnome Desktop Development List References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 i686 Reply-By: Wed Jun 21 12:12:38 CEST 2006 X-Uptime: 12:12:38 up 56 min, 5 users, load average: 0.14, 0.15, 0.21 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:42:49 -0000 > We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with > each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we > just fix the modules??"). ... 8< ... > Luis also wanted me to say: > I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to > release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole > release until they are all fixed. Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release management process, cf. signature. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak From lists@edmack.com Sun Jun 18 07:29:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBE73B0321 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20926-05 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vega.idns2.com (vega.idns2.com [85.92.70.238]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DD63B02EF for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [83.245.47.174] (helo=[10.0.0.10]) by vega.idns2.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FrrTK-0004l5-4d; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:26 +0100 Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication From: Ed Mack To: Yaron Tausky In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:12 +0100 Message-Id: <1150614792.8849.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - vega.idns2.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - edmack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:15 -0000 > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified Perhaps you should look into getting the D-BUS interface standardised through Free-Desktop so that applications can rely on it outside of Gnome. Ed Mack From 5madfarmers@gmail.com Fri Jun 16 18:41:21 2006 Return-Path: <5madfarmers@gmail.com> X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82673B0382 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24905-05 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8303B022B for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c39so718501pyd for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.37.18 with SMTP id p18mr5094493pyj; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.28.4 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:35:01 -0500 From: "5 Mad Farmers" <5madfarmers@gmail.com> To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Need an icon and stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:55:10 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:41:21 -0000 First, sorry for the noise but I figure this is the correct list. I'm about 1/3 done with a program that is GPL and intended for Gnome users. "DVD Juicer" not that I'm a name mimic or anything. The program is just a simple C wrapper (gtk of course) around extract/transcode type tools and the program itself isn't linked to any questionably licensed libraries - it calls external programs. It aims for simplicity and the hope is the people that use it won't have to understand frame rates, codecs, yada yada yada. The program picks the main track (all can be selected) and the user just hits "record" and that's that. In any event I'm not very artistically gifted and am looking for somebody to develop an icon for it. I pretty much know what I'm after but don't have graphic skills. After that I guess I'm wondering about hosting issues. Assuming that I get it banged into useable state, at that point I'd be kind of wanting a mailing list and perhaps someplace to host a tarball, bugzilla too I guess. I'm not subscribed but lurk the list so if you're interested in the icon thing I'd appreciate an email. If somebody can point me to the details for web hosting issues I'd appreciate that too. Thanks for your time. ---- I didn't spend money on the optional funny tag line. Jeff Waugh used to have very funny ones so just paste one of his here. From fherrera@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 10:56:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CD83B0100 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31366-04 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D27AE3B0089 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2212674uge for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.9 with SMTP id c9mr919239ugj; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.13 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:48:42 +0300 From: "Fernando Herrera" Sender: fherrera@gmail.com To: "GNOME Desktop Hackers" Subject: Crash reports from GNOME bindings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3fe5fbd740cb679d X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.391 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.133, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.391 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 14:56:25 -0000 Hello, current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and Gtk# applications, so here is the question: Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for GNOME 2.16 release? Salu2. From luis.villa@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 11:37:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86C33B0CBB for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00472-10 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.194]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C753B0C12 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so668272wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.116.8 with SMTP id o8mr7058887wxc; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.10.19 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2cb10c440606180829g5729c210p27134929060a7073@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:33 -0400 From: "Luis Villa" To: "Fernando Herrera" Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.558 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.558 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:37:36 -0000 Larry Ewing swore to me he'd do this for mono... Larry? :) By the way, let me suggest that this is really critical for binding-based apps to mature. GNOME without bug-buddy would still be very unstable. Bringing bug-buddy to the people developing with your bindings is a *huge* bonus for them, even if they don't know it :) Luis On 6/18/06, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From gjc@inescporto.pt Sun Jun 18 12:02:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2537E3B0CC3 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01599-07 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from animal.inescn.pt (correio.inescn.pt [194.117.24.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233553B0CC5 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/7) with ESMTP id k5IG111T008021; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:01:01 +0100 (WEST) Received: from pong.inescporto.pt (pong.inescn.pt [194.117.26.74]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/5) with ESMTP id k5IG0rMG007976; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:00:54 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pong.inescporto.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AAE5119288; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:57:41 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings From: Gustavo Carneiro To: Fernando Herrera In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INESC Porto Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:00:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at inescporto.pt X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.389 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.389 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:02:01 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-18 at 17:48 +0300, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). Thanks and regards. > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From nudrema@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 15:25:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264F73B0115 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08453-02 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp40.mobistarmail.be (smtp40.mobistarmail.be [193.252.23.61]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5052F3B008F for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (unknown [212.224.135.11]) by mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D887F7000088; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:52 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060618192452886.D887F7000088@mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be Message-ID: <4495A882.2080608@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:50 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060612) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rousseau de Pantalon Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet References: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.973 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.443, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.069] X-Spam-Score: -1.973 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:25:59 -0000 Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > 1. > The fact that it can see all drives Nautilus can see *is* the problem. > (My harddrives and their partitions are *not* hot-pluggable -- are your's ?) > If I want to see *all* my partitions, mounted or not, I'll open the > Computer Icon. > An applet such as this should at least filter out harddisk-partitions > and only show removable (usb) devices. > Better yet, have a customizable filter on volume-label / id / > device-name or so. In fact, it looks like a bug in your side. Here I only have an icon for my floppy disk (which can't be mounted automatically) and my CD or USB drive when I put them in... My permanent partitions (and I have several of those) don't show up. > 2. > The user cannot filter the devices / partitions shown. Does not matter since only the non-permanent ones should be shown. The icon appears when I plug my USB drive in, or when I put a CD in my CD drive, and then disappears after unmounting/ejecting it. > 3. > All Icons look alike. > It's just a replica of the Computer Icon. > One cannot assign icons to distinguish devices. Once again it looks like a bug. Here (Ubuntu Dapper, Gnome 2.14) I have a different icon for CD and for floppy. > ON THE RIGHT is a panel with the pre-2.10 applet representing my: > - floppy-drive > - pendrive #1 (floppy-disk-size -- bootable) > - the 64MB XD card in my printer > - my 256MB pendrive > - my other 256 MB pendrive > - my 750MB zipdisk > - my DVD-ROM player > - my DVD-writer > - my USB 5G mini-harddrive > - my MP3-player's internal 256MB memory > - my MP3-players 512MB SD extension BTW are you sure you don't have all those in your fstab and let hal/udev/whatever do its job ? It looks weird to me to have that many different usb drive placeholders... I guess not. The previous applets had that issue of not being friendly with this auto-configuration stuff: it wasn't possible to make one show up when you plug an USB drive. Actually, this works even if you've never used a USB key before. Looking at my fstab, I can see I have an entry for my CD-ROM drive, and for my IDE hard drives. That's all. Not even a line for my floppy, nor usb drives. > I propose the following: > - A filter in which the user can select the mountable devices to be > shown on the panel. > - The ability to attach a meaningful (custom) icon that represents the > device. > - Falling back to fstab if mounting/unmounting using udev/hotplug does > not do the trick. > - Make famd more aware of Nautilus created files/folders like > .Trash----- and thus not blocking unmounts. Maybe you should fill it as a bug in bugzilla if you think it's really useful to some people. -- Steve http://tw.apinc.org From benoit@placenet.org Sun Jun 18 16:21:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 381A33B000A; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09725-01; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ibook.free.fr (benoit.placenet.org [82.241.234.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81BA3B0071; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ibook.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B6458DF; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:52 +0200 (CEST) Subject: gnome-system-monitor has been branched From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Beno=EEt?= Dejean To: gnome-i18n@gnome.org, gnome-doc-list@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, release-team@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1" Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:51 +0200 Message-Id: <1150658211.603.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:21:23 -0000 --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The stable branch is gnome-2-14 and the development branch is HEAD. --=20 Beno=C3=AEt Dejean JID: TazForEver@jabber.org GNOME http://www.gnomefr.org/ LibGTop http://directory.fsf.org/libgtop.html --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Ceci est une partie de message =?ISO-8859-1?Q?num=E9riquement?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_sign=E9e?= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBElaajliyxJIUSPQoRAtcDAJ9JZw+cTZKTWNXZBBYFCtnpm/kJuQCeO14Y Kl72P/ZsSyMPW7l+8680xm8= =ubQu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1-- From fherrera@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 16:36:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CEBD3B00AF for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09616-05 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B8E3B000A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2273703uge for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id u9mr4817144ugg; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.13 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:35:18 +0300 From: "Fernando Herrera" Sender: fherrera@gmail.com To: "Gustavo Carneiro" Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 105387f1bb21b58d X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.51 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.090, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.51 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:36:18 -0000 On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed by bug-buddy after the bug report. I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. Salu2 From james.henstridge@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 22:13:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C8B3B02DE for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20489-08 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.205]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2019D3B0196 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so718551wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.15.4 with SMTP id 4mr1982726wxo; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:47:45 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Alan Horkan" , "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: b5f0f0028f3b89ab X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.589 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.589 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:13:50 -0000 On 19/06/06, Alan Horkan wrote: > > Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find > > to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective > > Dont know what the original commenter disliked about the applet but I > found it annoying that the icons are set to be generic looking drives > ("mystery meat") to start with, even though each button is assigned to > specific device type. Only when the drive is mounted change to look like > CD/USB/Floppy etc and that little bit of extra guesswork/memorisation is > something I could do without. That is something that might be worth fixing. The drive mount applet gets all the drive images from gnome-vfs (using gnome_vfs_drive_get_icon and gnome_vfs_volume_get_icon). If gnome-vfs is changed to provide better icons for unmounted drives/volumes, that will fix their display in the applet and Nautilus. James. From paolo.maggi@polito.it Mon Jun 19 03:28:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4733B0DB7; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30352-05; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from polito.it (anacreon.polito.it [130.192.3.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE963B0BA0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:21 -0400 (EDT) X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's FindAttachments (free) Received: from [82.105.171.149] (account d003505@polito.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by anacreon.polito.it (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPSA id 39168140; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:03 +0200 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Paolo Maggi To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.41 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.41 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:28:53 -0000 Hi, I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the languages name (the iso_639 module). I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? Ciao, Paolo From Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM Mon Jun 19 05:50:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D13CA3B0004; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02234-10; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EB03B008F; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-02.sun.com (d1-emea-02.sun.com [192.18.2.112] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5J9nVFW019335; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-02.sun.com by d1-emea-02.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1300C01PF1AF00@d1-emea-02.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.150.120.119] by d1-emea-02.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J13006BTPYFPW88@d1-emea-02.sun.com>; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:30 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:27 +0100 From: Darren Kenny Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-reply-to: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sender: Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM To: Paolo Maggi Message-id: <44967327.4060809@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060602) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:50:46 -0000 Has anyone looked into the use of Tim Fosters (yeah Glynn's brother) open language tools? https://open-language-tools.dev.java.net/ I know they are in Java, but this is the main point of what it addresses - the sharing of translations - while it doesn't have the "server" functionality, it does go some way to supporting the idea of sharing of translations. Darren. PS - I'm no expert in L10N or I18N, so please excuse my ignorance... Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? > > Ciao, > Paolo > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From james.henstridge@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 06:40:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC373B008F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04861-01 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8272D3B00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so171003wxd for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.130.3 with SMTP id c3mr8315800wxd; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:39:56 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Paolo Maggi" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8275e60f19f7fc95 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:40:48 -0000 On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't be presented as such to the user. James. From ArC@gulic.org Mon Jun 19 06:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7685C3B00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05102-08 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es [193.145.138.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D52433B008F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (Postfix, from userid 43062) id 57E74C00E0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:07 +0100 (WEST) Received: from savor.gulic.org (gulic.ulpgc.es [193.145.155.10]) by smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14619C00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:07 +0100 (WEST) Received: from socios.gulic.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by savor.gulic.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3048C415B for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 (WEST) Received: from phpmailer ([217.126.206.203]) by socios.gulic.org with HTTPS (PHPMailer); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org From: Alberto Carlos Ruiz Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication Message-ID: <3acf4f39f60be389c617b40fbe1978cb@socios.gulic.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.71] X-Mailer: FeLaMiMail version 0.9.5 Organization: gulic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-PostfixSecure-Antispam: valid X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.444, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:47:21 -0000 dodji Seketeli escribi=C3=B3:=20 Hi there I've been working around using feed syndication on the desktop, in fact = I've wrote a little app to syndicate art.gnome.org brand new atom format, to automatic install backgrounds from the site, Jilorio, (http://aruiz.synaptia.net/siliconisland/2006/05/jilorio_feed_fo.html) Gtk and metacity themes are also planned. While I was writting the app, I was wondering how could I centralize the feed agregation since I would use several feeds, and I've been thinking another uses of feeds around the desktop. So I think that a solution like this could rock to approach a "live desktop" which can change using the internet content. >Dodji. > >On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: >> Hi, >> I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the >> use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of = a >> daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified >> intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's >> database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is >> for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I = can >> think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. >> I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think >> there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps >> if you think this is all rubbish. :-) >> >> On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this >> seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to >> do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not >> integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. >> >> -- >> Yaron Tausky >> >> _______________________________________________ >> desktop-devel-list mailing list >> desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list >> >_______________________________________________ >desktop-devel-list mailing list >desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From isak.savo@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 08:36:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F2A3B0C86 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11267-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qb-out-0506.google.com (qb-out-0506.google.com [72.14.204.234]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2013B3B0D60 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id e11so84670qba for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.124.12 with SMTP id b12mr4271765qbn; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.181.6 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50b611120606190510hac0a14cvabbe1aa3b0de5193@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:10:26 +0200 From: "Isak Savo" To: "James Henstridge" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:36:29 -0000 2006/6/19, James Henstridge : > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. This is also what the FSF states on their license page[1]. That page also contains links to already translated versions of the three GNU licenses. They are unofficial though, in the sense that it is the English version that what counts in court. Isak [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#UnofficialTranslations From alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk Mon Jun 19 08:37:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A663B0C86; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11302-04; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (unknown [81.2.110.250]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E433B0C98; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5JCpUKM004774; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:30 +0100 Received: (from alan@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5JCpTFs004773; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: alan set sender to alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk using -f Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Alan Cox To: James Henstridge In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 Message-Id: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.59 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.59 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:37:01 -0000 Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a foreign language will not find much favour. The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less important property. The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. Translations really should include a translation of the license text where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that the American English version is the authorative document for legal purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and what rights you have given them. Alan From rosechr@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 12:32:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48553B01C6 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20459-06 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.174]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C7C3B0196 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2608745uge for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.16 with SMTP id 16mr2246685huw; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.12 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:31:50 +0200 From: "Christian Rose" Sender: rosechr@gmail.com To: "Paolo Maggi" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 276aabd410967e48 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.32 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.280, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.32 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:32:39 -0000 On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least for the short License declarations (like "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: 1) Most common widget and menu names are already defined (and translated) in GTK+. A "License" button would be the same thing. 2) If there was an "add a license dialog to my app" API for developers to use, it would make sense to allow a template for the short declarations of most common licenses to be used. If run in a non-English locale, also display a non-official translation if it exists. 3) External dependencies that help translation (like the iso_639 module) are very useful, but developers are often not aware of it, and for obvious reasons they try to avoid unnecessary dependencies, so in practice, few applications make use of them. > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? It is a real problem. I've lost track of how many times I have manually copied the unofficial Swedish translation of the "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..." "This app is GPL"-style declaration blurb into different applications. Even more exciting since different applications format the texts differently (with or without newlines and/or markup, different amount of spacing, etc) and give different addresses to the FSF (the FSF changed address at least once), so the number of variants in use is enormous... A "do it once, do it right" convenience API for developers to use for this would be a big plus, for both developers and translators. Christian From sri@aracnet.com Mon Jun 19 15:04:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 429B43B00DB for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27155-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [216.99.193.114]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F076F3B01DA for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [127.0.0.1]) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5JJ3HTw003291; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:17 -0700 Received: (from sri@localhost) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k5JJ3GPQ003289; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060619190316.GI7996@aracnet.com> References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.563 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.563 X-Spam-Level: Cc: thomas@apestaart.org, GNOME Desktop X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:04:41 -0000 On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 04:29:54PM -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" > attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to > purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather > than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially > if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I > don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made > yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make > a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. My advice to you is to sit with the other distributions and figure out how to do it from a "GNU/Linux platform" perspective. You can't be the only company who wants to have proprietary format work "out of the box" I don't know if there is a "distro summit" but that would be the first place I would hit to start pushing for this kind of thing. But doing it from the GNOME project perspective doesn't seem very likely. So it's exactly what you're planning to do now, but it would be the distributions not the GNOME project. True it complicates the task, but if distributors want to grow their share of the desktop market they'll probably want to opt into your idea. Besides, it's a great way to get some good press by leading. :-) sri From gnome@nextreality.net Mon Jun 19 22:12:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85613B036C for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17303-05 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1B93B00C4 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id B3CAB35904; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:11:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0F8F35901; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:11:39 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:11:48 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fernando Herrera Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.023, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gustavo Carneiro , GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:12:35 -0000 Fernando Herrera wrote: > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Any security implications there? -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From behdad.esfahbod@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 23:40:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57FC63B0E8D for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20798-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481263B0E65 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so1088126wra for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.112.1 with SMTP id k1mr6865222wrc; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.190.5? ( [72.136.156.47]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 64sm4643160wra.2006.06.19.20.39.51; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Behdad Esfahbod To: Christian Rose In-Reply-To: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:39:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1150774790.14758.3.camel@home> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 (2.6.1-1.fc5.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: Behdad Esfahbod X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:40:43 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 12:31 -0400, Christian Rose wrote: > On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least > for the short License declarations (like "This program is free > software; you can redistribute it and/or > modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: I replied to this thread, but seems like it didn't make it through the list. I've been working on exactly what you suggest in this bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336225 A couple of technical questions remain open, but you get the idea. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" From james.henstridge@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 03:07:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1303B0ECF for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31382-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hu-out-0102.google.com (hu-out-0102.google.com [72.14.214.195]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C833B0EFC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hu-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 24so655028hud for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.8.15 with SMTP id 15mr9925328wxh; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:58:48 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Alan Cox" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d5d09b8fe4015615 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.042 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.042 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:07:10 -0000 On 19/06/06, Alan Cox wrote: > Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > > be presented as such to the user. > > True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a > foreign language will not find much favour. > > The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the > code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less > important property. > > The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. > Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot > exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, > oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. > > Translations really should include a translation of the license text > where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that > the American English version is the authorative document for legal > purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. > > Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and > what rights you have given them. Those are good points, and it sounds like a good idea to show an unofficial translation along with the real license. But it needs to be clear that if the translation and the english text differ that the english text be considered authorative. This is particularly important if the translated text is displayed when the user asks the app what its license is. James. From paolo.maggi@polito.it Tue Jun 20 04:21:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA53E3B0306; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02498-06; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from polito.it (anacreon.polito.it [130.192.3.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F463B0008; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's FindAttachments (free) Received: from [82.105.171.149] (account d003505@polito.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by anacreon.polito.it (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPSA id 39199418; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:44 +0200 Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Paolo Maggi To: James Henstridge In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:40 +0200 Message-Id: <1150791580.5512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.44 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.44 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:21:22 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 18:39 +0800, James Henstridge wrote: > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. I don't want to show in the License dialog the entire license text but only the good old "This program is free software... [snip]....You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program..." snippet. I agree with you translations of license text could be problematic. But I don't think this is the case since the text only says which is the license and where to find it. Ciao, Paolo From gjc@inescporto.pt Tue Jun 20 07:09:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183533B05ED for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10580-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from animal.inescn.pt (correio.inescn.pt [194.117.24.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55F93B0450 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/7) with ESMTP id k5KB8Ngq012815; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:23 +0100 (WEST) Received: from pong.inescporto.pt (pong.inescn.pt [194.117.26.74]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/5) with ESMTP id k5KB88pn012723; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:08 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pong.inescporto.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B2AAEB66; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:04:51 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings From: Gustavo Carneiro To: Brent Smith In-Reply-To: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INESC Porto Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:08:06 +0200 Message-Id: <1150801686.6052.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at inescporto.pt X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.427 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.427 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Fernando Herrera , GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:09:25 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 20:11 -0600, Brent Smith wrote: > Fernando Herrera wrote: > > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > > > > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then > the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Sounds good. > > Any security implications there? None that I can see. -- Gustavo Carneiro INESC Porto From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 11:06:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298EF3B0135 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21825-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.239]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923863B00E9 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so1191720wra for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.136.11 with SMTP id j11mr644636wrd; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:06:07 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: About Unix Power for Gnome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: d7d7ccabfc274142 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:06:50 -0000 Hi all, I'm brand new here so first of all I'll present myself. My name is Christian, I'm from italy (really near Venice) and I've finished university (computer science) last October, of course I'm a free software user and enthusiast (actually using Debian on my desktop and Ubuntu on my notebook, both with Gnome as desktop environment). For my master thesis I've done a work that probably fit quite well with the Unix Power for Gnome problem raised by Rodrigo Moya about one year ago (http://blogs.gnome.org/view/rodrigo/2005/08/19/0). Last week I've published the project born from my thesis on sourceforge at http://sflux.sourceforge.net The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application. What I've thought is a way to describe a computer system (documents, applications and operations) using Semantic Web technologies (RDF/OWL/Sparql) so that S-Flux (the application I've done) can understand what operations can be done on a particular document(s) using the applications installed on the system, create a pipeline of operations and actually perform them. On the site you'll find a couple of screencast too, 'cause I know my english is not so good so seeing is better than reading :-) The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about it. Thanks a lot for the attention, ciao! Christian. From paolo.bacchilega@libero.it Tue Jun 20 12:45:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39F33B01C9; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29388-10; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp7.libero.it (smtp7.libero.it [193.70.192.90]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8D93B0EA1; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (172.16.1.8) by smtp7.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 4464C609038C90BE; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:44:55 +0200 Received: from smtp0.libero.it ([172.16.1.204]) by localhost (asav9.libero.it [193.70.192.87]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20713-03; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:44:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [151.53.96.255] (unknown [151.53.96.255]) by smtp0.libero.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FAAD3355E9; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:00 +0200 (MEST) Subject: file-roller branched From: Paolo Bacchilega To: Desktop Devel , GNOME Documentation , GNOME I18N List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:45 +0200 Message-Id: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: with antispam and antivirus automated system at libero.it X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.691 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708] X-Spam-Score: -0.691 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:45:03 -0000 Hi, the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. Regards, Paolo. From harmon@ksu.edu Tue Jun 20 12:49:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B223B0E2A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29748-09; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.cc.ksu.edu (smtp2.cc.ksu.edu [129.130.7.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52133B05F8; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [129.130.11.189] (dhcp19.user.cis.ksu.edu [129.130.11.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp2.cc.ksu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5KGnCK5017430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:49:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:50:20 -0500 From: "Scott J. Harmon" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060601) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paolo Bacchilega Subject: Re: file-roller branched References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1551/Tue Jun 20 08:37:21 2006 on virusfilter2.cc.ksu.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , GNOME Documentation , Desktop Devel X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:49:17 -0000 Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > Hi, > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture changing bugs... > Regards, > Paolo. > Thanks, Scott. From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 12:53:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C653B0CE7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30222-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCEE33B0F2A for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so390349wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.130.3 with SMTP id c3mr10723588wxd; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:53:35 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Scott J. Harmon" Subject: Re: file-roller branched In-Reply-To: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , Desktop Devel , GNOME Documentation X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:53:44 -0000 On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > Hi, > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > changing bugs... Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get freeze break approval) ;-) From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 13:36:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513113B00B7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00401-02 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.200]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F333B016D for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so396333wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.78.15 with SMTP id a15mr8688279wxb; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:35:47 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Elijah Newren" , "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs In-Reply-To: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:36:21 -0000 On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > management process, cf. signature. > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both (There is a patch but claims nss has to be disabled for e-d-s for it to work) Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html (Frederic Peters has a patch for this) evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) From murrayc@murrayc.com Tue Jun 20 14:28:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DA53B0188 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04324-10 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarthymail-a4.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-98.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.98]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082073B0499 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noname (p5497DB9C.dip.t-dialin.net [84.151.219.156]) by swarthymail-a4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A788129A8A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs From: Murray Cumming To: Elijah Newren In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:28:20 +0200 Message-Id: <1150828100.6261.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.482 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.117, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.482 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:28:27 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 11:35 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > > management process, cf. signature. > > > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: For really simple things, I think the release-team should just go ahead and fix it, and retarball where necessary, if you can't get a maintainer to do it. (Please, would the release team finally just go ahead and release a libglade 2.6.0 tarball?) -- Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From gnome@nextreality.net Tue Jun 20 22:39:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F893B0591 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00452-03 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE0F3B058E for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 6350235904; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E8E35901; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4498B158.8020609@nextreality.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:39:20 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Elijah Newren Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:10 -0000 Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: >> Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release >> management process, cf. signature. > >> "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be >> like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: > > [snip] > gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h Invoking build sheriff privileges. 2006-06-20 Brent Smith * configure.in: add GTK+ to PKG_CHECK_MODULES so the include path for GTK is specified in the cflags; patch from Elijah Newren, fixes #344695 -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From alexl@redhat.com Wed Jun 21 03:43:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94583B0AF9; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17803-09; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582E73B0E2A; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hjpZ001040; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:45 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hjGc003626; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:45 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hh2W014630; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:44 -0400 Subject: Re: file-roller branched From: Alexander Larsson To: Elijah Newren In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:43:43 +0200 Message-Id: <1150875824.16397.66.camel@greebo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , GNOME Documentation , Desktop Devel X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:43:53 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 10:53 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > > changing bugs... > > Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are > bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or > would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get > freeze break approval) ;-) I'm slightly annoyed at this listing of rules for when you need to branch. There is also the fact that 2.14 is *stable* and fixing bugs can destabilize it as much as adding features can. If you're unsure of the stability of bugfixes its very nice to be able to commit them to a branch immediately and then move the important and stable fixes to the stable branch. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl@redhat.com alla@lysator.liu.se He's a benighted zombie photographer who hides his scarred face behind a mask. She's a wealthy cigar-chomping fairy princess on her way to prison for a murder she didn't commit. They fight crime! From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 04:25:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D4F33B01E2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08370-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78233B0466 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so307952wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.21.9 with SMTP id 9mr2472173wxu; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:25:38 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 03c2f413749c9331 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:25:41 -0000 Really no opinion at all? Maybe something like: * "Good idea but..." * "I don't think that it can solve any problem" * "I really don't like it" * "What the hell is that thing?!" I'd really like to know your opinions. This is my first open project so any advice is really really useful. Ciao! Christian From danilo@gnome.org Thu Jun 22 04:58:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1E03B057D for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10849-01 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from supa.sekjur.com (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45B53B00C5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD61921F8CB; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown by localhost (amavisd-new, unix socket) id client-x7GIvx1J; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.134] (dhcp-87-116-155-154.marshall-bg.customer.sbb.co.yu [87.116.155.154]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520CD21F8C4; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome From: Danilo Segan To: Christian Barbato In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:58:35 +0200 Message-Id: <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sekjur.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.561 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.561 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:58:42 -0000 Hi Christian, У чет, 22. 06 2006. у 10:25 +0200, Christian Barbato пише: > I'd really like to know your opinions. This is my first open project > so any advice is really really useful. GUADEC[1], the Gnome conference, is starting in two days, and everyone is busy with preparations. :) You'll probably get your share of opinions once everything settles. Of course, you're welcome to join us in Vilanova i la Geltrú in Spain :) Cheers, Danilo [1] http://guadec.org/ From kalle.vahlman@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 05:02:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67BE83B0608 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11213-02 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EAAF3B0583 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so311544wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.1 with SMTP id r1mr2731910wxb; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.77.14 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <177e83dd0606220202qf17541eg57bf321e7a4e44d1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:02:12 +0300 From: "Kalle Vahlman" To: "Christian Barbato" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.163 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.437, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.163 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: zuh@iki.fi List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:02:17 -0000 2006/6/22, Christian Barbato : > Really no opinion at all? I think this is not the right medium for the opinions, this list is about developing GNOME, not talking about new applications (even if they do use/integrate with GNOME). The project itself sounds cool though, even if "The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application" doesn't sound like what it is really doing. Seems to me it's more like utilizing CLI programs in a GUI, and as such it only applies to stuff like image/sound/video conversions and other predefined non-interactive actions (not, for example, writing a document). -- Kalle Vahlman, zuh@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 05:35:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC663B00C5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13169-02 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80DBE3B00DE for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so315225wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.116.11 with SMTP id o11mr2771364wxc; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220235g7beadd90y7850879287ba1b68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:35:37 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: "Danilo Segan" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 643165173af50fa9 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:35:40 -0000 2006/6/22, Danilo Segan : > Hi Christian, > > > GUADEC[1], the Gnome conference, is starting in two days, and everyone > is busy with preparations. :) > > You'll probably get your share of opinions once everything settles. Of > course, you're welcome to join us in Vilanova i la Geltr=FA in Spain :) Thanks Danilo, it also seems that I've choosed the wrong mailing-list. Paolo Borelli suggested me gnome-love maybe I'll try there. And of course, I'd really LOVE to be there in Spain at GUADEC but I think I'm too late...maybe next year :-) Ciao! Christian From ruben@Lambda1.be Thu Jun 22 08:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49CC53B025B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26471-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from guri.is.scarlet.be (unknown [193.74.71.22]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32573B02A8 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ([62.235.142.250]) by guri.is.scarlet.be with ESMTP id k5MCks925486; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:55 +0200 Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5255F4604E4; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome From: Ruben Vermeersch To: Christian Barbato In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-DCC-scarlet.be-Metrics: guri 2020; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:47:21 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 17:06 +0200, Christian Barbato wrote: > The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to > deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about > it. Makes me think of Automator [1], which I've always liked as an idea (but never used it). The UI could use a lot of love though, you might want to check up with the HIG. The usefulness of this app will stand and fall with a good interface concept. Also, it should be made dead simple for apps to register their own hooks. Neat idea, but whether it's successful will be highly dependent on how it's worked out. Kind Regards, Ruben [1] http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/automator/ -- Ruben Vermeersch (rubenv) http://www.Lambda1.be/ From d2004@cosmopod.com Mon Jun 19 20:59:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672EA3B0319 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11366-08 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.cosmopod.com (unknown [216.75.2.64]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907E03B0E91 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.cosmopod.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by 64.cosmopod.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5K0vjXa023707 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:45 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by 64.cosmopod.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5K0vjP1023706 for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: 64.cosmopod.com: d2004 set sender to d2004@cosmopod.com using -f From: d2004@cosmopod.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Suggestions from a User Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:44 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.561 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_REAL_NAME=0.961, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -1.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:55:12 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:59:59 -0000 Dear GNOME Developers, I am an end-user wishing to supply some feedback/suggestions on improving o= ur=20 Desktop Environment. I have been using GNOME for quite a long time (first= =20 played with it in the 1.4 days and became a serious user with release 2.0/R= ed=20 Hat 8). I am however, just a user and have no development experience. I a= m=20 also new to this list, so if any of my comments or suggestions are ignorant= =20 or have already been discussed, please forgive me in advance. I was prompted to write this after reading the article in the latest GNOME= =20 Journal about end users: http://www.gnomejournal.org/article/46/the-gnome-community-end-users Hopefully, the following will provide some constructive and positive feedba= ck=20 on areas where the system can be improved. As noted, this is from a high-e= nd=20 user's perspective, (not someone particularly interested in keybindings on= =20 Metacity or the like! :-)) Here is my wishlist: 1. Evolution's spam filter is slow and not as efficient as that of=20 Thunderbird. Optimisation work in this area would be greatly appreciated. 2. When importing a single mail file into Evolution, displaying a list of= =20 files to select from shows the file name and the date but not the file size= =2E =20 Displaying the file size would make it easier to determine which file is=20 which, if there are a large number to choose from. 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for= =20 deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash= =20 rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universa= l=20 repository for deleted data. 4. A mail preview so that incoming messages could be seen without switchin= g=20 from other applications to Evolution all of the time would be appreciated. = =20 Outlook 2003 has a function whereby a message momentarily pops-up on screen= ,=20 allowing the user to see the name of the sender and the subject line. Such= a=20 pop-up may be annoying to some users; however, Google Desktop has an even=20 better solution whereby, in "Sidebar" mode, it displays a list of recent=20 mails on screen. Clicking on one allows it to be opened out and previewed.= =20 =46rom there, clicking on it again opens the actual message in Outlook. A= =20 similar mail preview system for GNOME would therefore result in people bein= g=20 able to see new messages without constantly switching between applications= =20 and also enable them to determine if a message was particularly important. 5. One feature I greatly miss from GEdit is a "block select" function to c= ut=20 and past "blocks" of mono-spaced text. KATE and gVIM have this functionali= ty=20 and, even for non-programmers, it is extremely handy. 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the user= is=20 entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only browser I know of=20 with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has it.) 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, the= =20 user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user wants to= =20 download multiple images from a page, without saving the whole thing. IT=20 also seems, from the usability studies I have read online that new and=20 inexperienced users have a reticence towards right-clicking. The various=20 usability studies I have read by Sun and Novell seem to indicate that peopl= e=20 often do not think to right-click to configure the clock or activate applet= s. =20 Therefore, functions that are present in right-click menus only, such as th= at=20 to save images in the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an ent= ry=20 to "Save All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I know th= at=20 it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) because I can run = it=20 successfully under kppp. However, attempting to configure it under GNOME=20 results in failure as it cannot be detected. This is annoying as, for one= =20 reason, it limits me from using a GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. = =20 kppp is a more than adequate workaround but it would be great for GNOME to= =20 also support these. I realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to=20 broadband but in my (first-world) country there are still many home users=20 with dial-up only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. 9. Also related to this, it is difficult to locate hardware configuration= =20 data under GNOME, such as ports and interrupts. KDE have a centralised=20 hardware browser that provides detailed system information for those seekin= g=20 it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather than= =20 later. 10. A font management system. I did some research and found a short=20 discussion here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2006-March/msg00203.html Indeed, lacking something even the equivalent of the Mac Suitcase is an=20 impediment. =20 11. As that same message notes, DTP is a hole on Linux at the moment. Whi= lst=20 there are a few good applications, such as Scribus and KreetingKard, to=20 appeal to two levels of developer, there are no GTK-based equivalents to=20 promote healthy competition. Such applications are rarely included on=20 distributions. Even Inkscape and Bluefish are often relegated to "extras"=20 repositories. It would be great if more work on consumer level DTP=20 applications could be undertaken. This does not necessarily mean tools=20 equivalent to the likes of Quark and Adobe but smaller programs such as tho= se=20 produced by Serif and Printshop. I realise this would take much time and=20 many resources though. Also, promotion of the likes of Inkscape so that they are more visible to=20 users and included in the "Core" disks of distributions like Fedora would=20 raise the profile of such projects. Perhaps you could lobby the Fedora=20 people? 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the spatial= =20 mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the need for a file= =20 MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming, printing lists of=20 directory structures and so on. Obviously such is readily done from within= =20 the Shell but it would be great if a GNOME tool could do the same. 13. For those managing small networks, it would be great to have=20 the /etc/MOTD file (Message of the Day) appear each time users log in. For= =20 example, if I had a small school network, there may be a message I would li= ke=20 the users to see. A small dialogue box displaying this file on login would= =20 be handy. Obviously, an ability to disable it would be needed and it shoul= d=20 not be activated by default or it would be intrusive to those people with=20 single-user systems. 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like the=20 concept of circular menus mentioned here: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html It seems likely that, by reducing mouse movements, they would improve syste= m=20 ergonomics. Another advantage would be that, in their uniqueness, they wou= ld=20 help to differentiate GNOME from the alternative desktops. Such uniqueness= =20 is always positive marketing, which is why I rankle when I read of certain= =20 parties wanting to make GNOME more similar to Windows. Whilst it may help= =20 users make a transition from WIndows, it does not help give them an incenti= ve=20 to move. GNOME needs to be unique and the care to detail and usability is= =20 part of what has already attracted many people (myself included.) By=20 combining thoughtful ergonomics with eye-catching (but non-distracting)=20 visual ideas, this should help gain an even greater user base. 15. My final request is a purely personal indulgence. It would be great t= o=20 have a GNOME chess game. With the Gnuchess engine available, I am surprise= d=20 no one has included a GTK-based GNOME game due to this pasttime's enduring= =20 popularity, so I would like to lobby for this! That is the sum of my input. I hope that at least some of my ideas are=20 helpful or generate constructive discussion. I look forward to your=20 feedback. I am a newbie here, so do not be too cruel! I realise that soe = of=20 these proposals would be huge work but they are simply ideas of things I=20 would like to see. Maybe next year, maybe in Topaz, maybe even beyond that= =2E =20 There is a lot of work but the GNOME community has already come a long way.= =20 Best wishes to everyone, Danni From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 09:24:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 855FD3B041B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30123-10 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.204]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DEE3B00B8 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so351325wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.1 with SMTP id r1mr3101621wxb; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220624g442a5c35u1392f8a9bff8f25d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:24:57 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: "Ruben Vermeersch" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5e57a2bb7844bd75 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:24:59 -0000 2006/6/22, Ruben Vermeersch : > > Makes me think of Automator [1], which I've always liked as an idea (but > never used it). Oh yes. Automator was announced when I was in the middle of my project. I felt so bad, thinking that I arrived late and someone else developed my idea. But then, when Automator was released, I've looked well at it and tried it too. There are many differences between SFlux and Automator, but probably the one that I care more about is that Automator don't hide the other applications on the system and don't filter out the proposed operations on the basis of the input document(s) (it can be seen as a list of all the operations of all the applications, SFlux actually filter them). > > The UI could use a lot of love though, you might want to check up with > the HIG. The usefulness of this app will stand and fall with a good > interface concept. Bingo! The actual UI is really bad and I have to dramatically improve it. > > Also, it should be made dead simple for apps to register their own > hooks. Bingo again! Thanks a lot for your opinions. Christian. From uws@uwsworld.xs4all.nl Thu Jun 22 10:05:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9163B07F7 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00570-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uwsworld.xs4all.nl (uwsworld.xs4all.nl [194.109.237.238]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E8A3B042E for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uws by uwsworld.xs4all.nl with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1FtPoE-0000V5-00; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200 From: Wouter Bolsterlee To: d2004@cosmopod.com Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User Message-ID: <20060622140525.GA1605@uwsworld.xs4all.nl> Mail-Followup-To: d2004@cosmopod.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> X-message-flag: Guvf zrffntr qbrf abg pbagnva rapelcgrq zrffntrf. X-PGP: key 0x250A63EB, fingerprint 83C5 C205 47AD 539D A4F0 60BF 3FB4 134E 250A 63EB X-Base: All your base are belong to uws User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040907i Sender: Wouter Bolsterlee X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:05:32 -0000 --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First of all, thanks for your input! P=C3=A5 Mon, Jun 19, 2006 at 05:57:44PM -0700, d2004@cosmopod.com skrev: > 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the us= er is=20 > entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only browser I know of= =20 > with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has it.) This feature is being worked on. You can search bugzilla for the bug report and add yourself to the Cc field to track progress. > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, th= e=20 > user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user wants = to=20 > download multiple images from a page, without saving the whole thing. IT= =20 > also seems, from the usability studies I have read online that new and=20 > inexperienced users have a reticence towards right-clicking. The various= =20 > usability studies I have read by Sun and Novell seem to indicate that peo= ple=20 > often do not think to right-click to configure the clock or activate appl= ets. =20 > Therefore, functions that are present in right-click menus only, such as = that=20 > to save images in the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an e= ntry=20 > to "Save All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. I think not many people will use this feature. Therefore it's unlikely that it will be implemented. A tip: just save the page to disk. All related files such as images and stylesheets will be saved to disk as well. > 9. Also related to this, it is difficult to locate hardware configuratio= n=20 > data under GNOME, such as ports and interrupts. KDE have a centralised= =20 > hardware browser that provides detailed system information for those seek= ing=20 > it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather tha= n=20 > later. Have you tried hal-device-manager? mvrgr, Wouter --=20 :wq mail uws@xs4all.nl web http://uwstopia.nl tell myself that i'm not ready yet :: i want to live -- heather nova --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEmqOlP7QTTiUKY+sRAvBsAJ9a45WezIlO/V1hu6kiJ+TwULIJIgCgjOfG vityiebrWNVfZMLvyKzGC7I= =EQ4+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv-- From john.williams.lists@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 01:07:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F683B0670 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15165-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90CE3B06B8 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 34so700008nzf for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.134.15 with SMTP id h15mr3169537nzd; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?202.150.121.117? ( [202.150.121.117]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 6sm3937185nzn.2006.06.22.22.05.57; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User From: John Williams To: d2004@cosmopod.com In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:09:14 +1200 Message-Id: <1151039354.9177.9.camel@office.falcon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.294 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.229, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.294 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 05:07:02 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 17:57 -0700, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I know that > it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) because I can run it > successfully under kppp. However, attempting to configure it under GNOME > results in failure as it cannot be detected. This is annoying as, for one > reason, it limits me from using a GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. > kppp is a more than adequate workaround but it would be great for GNOME to > also support these. I realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to > broadband but in my (first-world) country there are still many home users > with dial-up only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. Hi Danni, and thanks for your mail. At the risk of adding a trivial "me too" message, I would like to amplify your point above. I believe that our problem (I have a similar one) is part of a bigger picture for GNOME. It is this: Software developers, in general, appear to have (and develop on) higher-end systems than those of the average user. I am referring here in particular to CPU speed, RAM and network access speed. One of the many consequences of this is that GNOME networking applications and associated infrastructure are very, very poor at accommodating users with modems, and relatedly, with slow (57k, say) access to the Internet. Not only is it very hard (I have never managed to do it) to set up GNOME's modem tool (I have to use the Network Configuration tool, and log in as root as a consequence), once you are connected many applications have no idea how do deal with: (a) slow connection speeds; and (b) intermittent connectivity Issues related to this can be seen most clearly in Evolution, but also in yumex. In fact, I am about ready to give up on Evolution totally after having used it ever since its first release. I kept on hoping that it would improve, but years down the track it appears that due to the point I raise above (developers not walking in the shoes of users) it will never happen. Sigh. After all that, I would like to say a huge THANKS to all the GNOME developers for all the really, really good stuff that the GNOME community has produced over the years. GNOME is really cool. But let's face it: it's not ready for the (non-corporate, general user) desktop yet. From psankar@novell.com Fri Jun 23 02:04:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BB53B0262 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17962-01 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sinclair.provo.novell.com (sinclair.provo.novell.com [137.65.81.169]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E763B01D2 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from INET-PRV-MTA by sinclair.provo.novell.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:03:57 -0600 Message-Id: <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:03:49 -0600 From: "P Sankar" To: Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User References: <449A5BCF0200004800012AAE@sinclair.provo.novell.com> <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> In-Reply-To: <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.479 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2] X-Spam-Score: -2.479 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:04:04 -0000 Hi, Thanks a lot for your suggestions. On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 12:58 +0000, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > 1. Evolution's spam filter is slow and not as efficient as that of > Thunderbird. Optimisation work in this area would be greatly appreciated. You need to train the spam filter for a few days to make it work effectively. This will help to develop the spam-detection-knowledge. There has been a discussion going on about letting the user choose SpamAssasin or Bogofilter. You can peek at the discussion on http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-hackers/2006-May/msg00062.html > 2. When importing a single mail file into Evolution, displaying a list of > files to select from shows the file name and the date but not the file size. > Displaying the file size would make it easier to determine which file is > which, if there are a large number to choose from. The file-open dialog used in Evolution is the gnome-wide GtkFileChooser. I believe that people hacking on it would have noted this discussion and will provide the ability to customize the columns in the dialog soon. > > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for > deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash > rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universal > repository for deleted data. I am not sure if this will be useful. If you have a remote account (IMAP/Exchange/GW) we are left with no choice other than keeping the deleted items in the server, so that they will be accesible everywhere. So they need to be on the Trash-folder on the accounts. And it will be confusing to have different Trash folder behaviors for local and remote Trash folders. > > 4. A mail preview so that incoming messages could be seen without switching > from other applications to Evolution all of the time would be appreciated. > Outlook 2003 has a function whereby a message momentarily pops-up on screen, > allowing the user to see the name of the sender and the subject line. Such a > pop-up may be annoying to some users; however, Google Desktop has an even > better solution whereby, in "Sidebar" mode, it displays a list of recent > mails on screen. Clicking on one allows it to be opened out and previewed. > >From there, clicking on it again opens the actual message in Outlook. A > similar mail preview system for GNOME would therefore result in people being > able to see new messages without constantly switching between applications > and also enable them to determine if a message was particularly important. *NOD* There needs to be a better new mail notification mechanism than the current BEEP or run-custom-program. This is already in the task list for the Evolution 2.8 release. (http://www.go-evolution.org/Mailer-2.8) Allowing the user to open/delete new mails without coming to the Evolution window. In the meanwhile you can try http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/garnome/geektoys/mail-notification/files/?only_with_tag=gnome-2-14 Your distro might ship with a new mail notification program already. You can ask for more details in your distro's forum. Sankar From mpt@myrealbox.com Sat Jun 24 03:22:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1243B0223 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29957-04 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leucothea.redline.site5.com (leucothea.redline.site5.com [216.118.97.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276F93B0360 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 203-173-178-53.bliink.ihug.co.nz ([203.173.178.53] helo=[10.1.1.5]) by leucothea.redline.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fu2T6-0006IN-Og; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Message-Id: <5f4833cdbee1bce1686a79531ed478a0@myrealbox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) From: Matthew Paul Thomas Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:22:21 +1200 To: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV. X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - leucothea.redline.site5.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - myrealbox.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.412 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.412 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:22:23 -0000 Hi Danni On Jun 20, 2006, at 12:57 PM, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > ... > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more=20 > logical for deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and=20= > go to system trash rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make=20= > system trash a universal repository for deleted data. That would be nifty, but the mail-specific Trash would still be useful=20= as a way of viewing only the deleted items that were e-mail messages. > ... > 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the=20= > user is entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only=20 > browser I know of with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has=20= > it.) > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images,=20= > the user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user=20= > wants to download multiple images from a page, without saving the=20 > whole thing. IT also seems, from the usability studies I have read=20 > online that new and inexperienced users have a reticence towards=20 > right-clicking. The various usability studies I have read by Sun and=20= > Novell seem to indicate that people often do not think to right-click=20= > to configure the clock or activate applets. Therefore, functions that=20= > are present in right-click menus only, such as that to save images in=20= > the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an entry to "Save=20= > All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. Or you could drag the image from the Web page onto your desktop or into=20= a folder, which works right now. (Granted, it doesn't work for images=20 that are inside links. But there are less obtrusive ways saving could=20 be provided for those too -- for example, the "Save As=85" button in the=20= Media tab of Firefox's Page Info window.) > 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I=20 > know that it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) =20 > because I can run it successfully under kppp. However, attempting to=20= > configure it under GNOME results in failure as it cannot be detected. =20= > This is annoying as, for one reason, it limits me from using a=20 > GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. kppp is a more than adequate=20= > workaround but it would be great for GNOME to also support these. I=20= > realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to broadband but in my=20 > (first-world) country there are still many home users with dial-up=20 > only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. Agreed -- the lack of easy-to-use dialup configuration makes Gnome much=20= less interesting for 22% of people online in the USA, 46% in China, 69%=20= in Australia, 70% in New Zealand, about 70% in India, and so on. > ... > 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the=20 > spatial mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the=20 > need for a file MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming,=20= > printing lists of directory structures and so on. > ... I can't think of any reason for these features not to be in Nautilus.=20 (You can already rename single items, just not in the way Windows and=20 Mac OS let you do it.) > ... > 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like=20= > the concept of circular menus mentioned here: > > http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html > ... =46rom what I've seen, circular menus don't scale to more than about 12=20= items, especially if they contain text. Cheers --=20 Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/= From gnome-desktop-devel-list@m.gmane.org Sat Jun 24 10:52:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C43C3B07F1 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20276-09 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355323B0402 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fu9Uv-0005Qs-Pm for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 Received: from sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.223.202]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 Received: from sdl.web by sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org From: Leon Subject: install applet server file without root Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:52:26 +0100 Lines: 14 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAEAAAAASCAMAAADc8SgQAAAAwFBMVEUCBQEJDAgTFRIaHBof IB4jJCIrLCotLywyNDE3OTY8Pjs/QD5FRkRJS0hRU1BWV1VbXVpiZGFnaWZrbWptb2xvcW52eHV5 enh+gH2Bg4CHiYaLjYqNj4yRk5CXmZaanJmdn5ygop+mqKWqrKmsrqutr6yxs7CztbK4ure7vbq/ wb7DxcLHycbJy8jNz8vQ0s/T1dLW2NXc3tvf4d7h5ODl5+Po6ufr7enu8O3x8/Dz9fL1+PT4+vf6 /Pn7/fr+//wGuxWtAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAALEwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH1gIaAyMw1+FInQAAAXxJ REFUOMulk+tygjAQhalFWodYvIwyiNUKA95QVLwQhLPv/1ZNAKWX8Yd6ZsLAZvdL9iQo9KSUx0v3 0wV/BjDSzZY6exxw0BJgrqaPApBtQeDK6eEdAGJ4DQhAZjFmWVZf798LmTUi6QGgmQCysHtfeWa1 OXITj8pMYrh9Vz03vmQbEuArMeETSZBPpIdKvMg9B2faL2NKgl3R/zZIuFZnjDW5bKGnrVfmROLk 5LhWqVmEbEcfu8u3+XD14YrvjeEsWRrlyj3QDN/To6u96VVJmkdO40AJAVU4ZQqfInWDhcpRSABi ZQ4MQYusPJ9KRSDhtgEclROBjQhGK8+hfMgdeMICSpGaRf6iU8kuiUzwnXdQ/BJleJ38/pnQ0yUJ g8JDbOxKbnlgtZDQ7Ql/GGzUxZnR7ngBxEHdCMP1rKOD/rVQhlY18aL5BMuczmncTmJnkF4AO9/3 PN9z3e3tW3uciodzFm58LcUCwWgS4drC39Vu3XsqbMu7/Zn8DYna+irHnqnQAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.0 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+0hFUCRQH6hd8ZYC5JEjXZlI6H8= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.593 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.593 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:52:39 -0000 Dear all, I am learning programming applets for gnome but it seems it requires root privilege to install and test applets. Seanni[1] has met the same issue but seems no one can answer. My question is how can a user (no root) install a .server file. Thank you all. Footnotes: [1] http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10650 -- Leon From reinouts@gnome.org Sat Jun 24 18:37:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E423B0094; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05211-10; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psmtp02.wxs.nl (psmtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.247.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57AC3B00DB; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from reinout.rotterdam-cs.com (ip5656924e.speed.planet.nl [86.86.146.78]) by psmtp02.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.02 (built Oct 21 2004)) with SMTP id <0J1D00E2UYSL68@psmtp02.wxs.nl>; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:36:28 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:39:02 +0200 From: Reinout van Schouwen Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, epiphany-list@gnome.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2 (This is not a psychotic episode. It's a cleansing moment of clarity.) References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> <20060622140525.GA1605@uwsworld.xs4all.nl> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:37:26 -0000 cc: epiphany-list On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200, Wouter Bolsterlee wrote: >> 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, >> the user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user > > I think not many people will use this feature. Therefore it's unlikely > that it will be implemented. To the contrary: someone has made a preliminary implementation of an Image Toolbar extension that shows a Save button when mousing over any image. However it was quite buggy and unfinished, so it now lingers somewhere in bugzilla... regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 00:09:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A193B02E4 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15859-06 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.207]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E163B0091 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so1472997nzh for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.47.19 with SMTP id u19mr4006827qbu; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:08:17 +0100 From: Who To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Nautilus Sidebar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.554 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.554 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 04:09:10 -0000 Hello List, A quick introduction before my main email: I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list about 5 months now... So, take my suggestions in the light of that description. Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is relevant to what the user is doing. See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in Nautilus that can display results from different engines. Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have any intentions to integrate into Nautilus I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related to this. Thanks in advance Who From glennji@gmail.com Sun Jun 25 08:18:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4B13B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12998-10 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.224]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15EC23B008C for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i12so909903wra for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.80.13 with SMTP id d13mr6295680wrb; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.99.17 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:17:45 +0100 From: "Glenn J. Mason" To: Who Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257" References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: glenn@glennji.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:18:41 -0000 ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type > specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The > idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is > relevant to what the user is doing. > > Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project > Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have > any intentions to integrate into Nautilus > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is the end of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. Was it just too much overhead on the system or something? Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]? It's a way to offer a similar thing in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions sidebar too? [1] http://www.grumz.net/index.php?q=taxonomy/term/2/9 -- Glenn J. Mason - "Glennji" Happy hacking! http://glennji.com/ ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type
specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The
idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is
relevant to what the user is doing.

Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project
Dashboard ( www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have
any intentions to integrate into Nautilus

Yeah, what happened to Dashboard?  The last update on the weblog is the end of 2003.  I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets.  Was it just too much overhead on the system or something?

Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]?  It's a way to offer a similar thing in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions sidebar too?

[1] http://www.grumz.net/index.php?q=taxonomy/term/2/9

--
Glenn J. Mason - "Glennji"
Happy hacking!
http://glennji.com/ ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257-- From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 08:38:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3553B00FE for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13730-08 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89CEE3B00D9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 34so1251591nzf for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.3.9 with SMTP id 9mr4129558qbc; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606250538l3f303826sce8eb515ee2c24fb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:38:06 +0100 From: Who To: glenn@glennji.com Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:38:10 -0000 On 6/25/06, Glenn J. Mason wrote: Snip my original message: > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is the end > of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", > like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. Was it just too much > overhead on the system or something? I have no 'inside information' but I remember reading that it's development was stalled in order to allow Beagle (which Dashboard will use a lot) to be completed. Beagle search that is cleverly targeted at the files currently selected in Nautilus is exactly the type of thing I was thinking about for the sidebar - providing 'Files edited at a similar time and of the same type as this' and 'Files containing the title of this document' - or even 'GAIM conversations about this' in the sidebar The idea would be that Beagle Search could be one engine for the sidebar - and many other things could be used along side it IF required > Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]? It's a way to offer a similar thing > in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions > sidebar too? I do use Nautilus actions - but I feel that it is not perfect because * It can only display static menu entries (as far as I know) - no query based items or previews or other things like that. * Having many options makes the menus too large/complicated and makes it harder to get to the other context menu functions * The need to right click makes it less intuitive for new users The link I sent mentioned having a Nautilus Actions engine for the sidebar design I am suggesting/asking about - I think it would be great :) Thanks for the feedback, Who From olafra@gmail.com Sun Jun 25 11:07:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48193B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18625-02 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.205]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7767F3B0097 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s1so1247426nze for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.4 with SMTP id y4mr6610751nzi; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.14.57 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:07:05 +0000 From: "Olafur Arason" To: Who Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853" References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.254 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.145, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.254 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:07:38 -0000 ------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more. Olafur Arason On 6/25/06, Who wrote: > > Hello List, > > A quick introduction before my main email: > I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I > write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux > programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am > keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work > and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI > design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list > about 5 months now... > > So, take my suggestions in the light of that description. > > Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type > specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The > idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is > relevant to what the user is doing. > > See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions > > There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding > very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in > Nautilus that can display results from different engines. > > > Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project > Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have > any intentions to integrate into Nautilus > > I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the > feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related > to this. > > Thanks in advance > > Who > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked
countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer
they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single
purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have
and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct
actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more.

Olafur Arason

On 6/25/06, Who <mailforwho@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hello List,

A quick introduction before my main email:
I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I
write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux
programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am
keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work
and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI
design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list
about 5 months now...

So, take my suggestions in the light of that description.

Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type
specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The
idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is
relevant to what the user is doing.

See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions

There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding
very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in
Nautilus that can display results from different engines.


Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project
Dashboard ( www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have
any intentions to integrate into Nautilus

I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the
feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related
to this.

Thanks in advance

Who
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------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853-- From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Sun Jun 25 11:13:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298513B00BB for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18789-08 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A3873B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.11] helo=salmon.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 25 Jun 2006 16:13:07 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:13:06 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: d2004@cosmopod.com Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Message-ID: References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.592 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.592 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:13:21 -0000 On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:44 -0700 > From: d2004@cosmopod.com > To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Subject: Suggestions from a User > > Dear GNOME Developers, > > I am an end-user wishing to supply some feedback/suggestions on > improving our Desktop Environment. For future reference it can be quite difficult to address all points of a long list so it might be best trying to stick to one or two points per mail (and I say that as someone who tries to be succint but I usually sending long verbose messages which dont get the best response). > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for > deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash > rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universal > repository for deleted data. If you are using Maildir the each individual message is already a seperate file but other implementations work quite differently. Very interesting idea but I wonder how difficult it might be to implent it. > 5. One feature I greatly miss from GEdit is a "block select" function to cut > and past "blocks" of mono-spaced text. KATE and gVIM have this functionality > and, even for non-programmers, it is extremely handy. > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, the Historically the two major browser manufacturers had other vested interests, Netscape in particular sold web server software and weren't exactly enthusiastic about tools which made it really easy for users to leech and scape content off the web (took forever before they added "Save Complete Web Page"). I put some effort into learning wget which makes it easier to scrape large batches of files from the internet but there should some graphical download tools out there to help too. I expect Epiphany might be interested in offering the feature you want but the risk might be if this feature ("save images only") didn't clutter things up and confuse users but maybe it would work out nicely. File a request in bugzilla, the Epiphany developers might be happy to add your suggestion (I wonder if it might be possible to create a firefox extension to do the same or if one already exists?) > it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather than > later. > 11. As that same message notes, DTP is a hole on Linux at the moment. Scribus is pretty good. I would much rather see infrastructure improved so QT and KDE applcations can integrate nicely into a GNOME desktop than anything else. Passepartout is an interesting application and it might be able to carve out a niche for basic publishing but it needs more developers (what project doesn't!). > Whilst there are a few good applications, such as Scribus and > KreetingKard, to appeal to two levels of developer, there are no > GTK-based equivalents to promote healthy competition. I've heard good things about Glabels. http://glabels.sourceforge.net/ > are rarely included on distributions. When more distributions switch to using a DVD (as opposed to CDs) as their primary format things might change and more software might be offered by default. > 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the spatial > mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the need for a file > MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming, printing lists of > directory structures and so on. Obviously such is readily done from within > the Shell but it would be great if a GNOME tool could do the same. The following bug report might be of interest: "rename multiple files at once" http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=306489 I wouldn't mind a tool which could take a look at all my downloads and allow me to sort them or set up filters as easily as I can do for incoming mail. A tool which was able to group files with common name patterns (or size, date, time, patterns) and then offer to sort them and put them in subfolders could be quite useful too. (A few years ago I vaguely recall looking at a tidy/cleanup tool which amongst other things would help you clear out empty unused folders but I doubt I'd be able to find it again.) > 13. For those managing small networks, it would be great to have > the /etc/MOTD file (Message of the Day) appear each time users log in. This question has been answered before, I believe they recommended some combination of Zenity and MOTD. > be handy. Obviously, an ability to disable it would be needed and it should > not be activated by default or it would be intrusive to those people with > single-user systems. (I should warn you this kind of thing sounds quite annoying and likely to be ignored by most users even if the intentions behind it are good.) > 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like the > concept of circular menus mentioned here: > http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html I've tried two drawing applications for windows, Alias Sketch and another very similar program called Artrage both of which make small use of circular menus and it can be quite useful. I wouldn't think it would suitable in most cases, best left to pen driven interfaces or applications which mostly use the mouse. > 15. My final request is a purely personal indulgence. It would be great to > have a GNOME chess game. With the Gnuchess engine available, I am surprised > no one has included a GTK-based GNOME game due to this pasttime's enduring > popularity, so I would like to lobby for this! Many chess games exist already and I believe there are a few GTK chess games if you go out and look for them. You wouldn't believe the work required to maintain Gnome games. > That is the sum of my input. I hope that at least some of my ideas are > helpful or generate constructive discussion. I look forward to your > feedback. I would have replied sooner but your message contained so many small points it took a very long time to respond to them. A few short points is often better, and taking your suggestions directly to the developers (of Nautilus, and Epiphany) is more likely to get relevant responses. > I am a newbie here, so do not be too cruel! I realise that soe of > these proposals would be huge work but they are simply ideas of things I > would like to see. -- Alan From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 11:48:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B823B008F for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19856-05 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.206]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7903B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so1532917nzh for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.115.18 with SMTP id s18mr5346240qbm; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606250847h690c57bl76f02034f0ba8e03@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:47:24 +0100 From: Who To: "Olafur Arason" Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.57 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:48:15 -0000 On 6/25/06, Olafur Arason wrote: > The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked > countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer > they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single > purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have > and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct > actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more. > > Olafur Arason > > I think that it failing to be noticed is a problem with the default configuratins, not with the tool itself. Perhaps we can think of some way to make it more discoverable - like a context menu item that says 'view more options in sidebar' when the sidebar isn't shown, does anyone have any other ideas? I fully agree that 'less is more' :) I think we want to provide really relevant actions/files/information. From johan@svedberg.com Sun Jun 25 17:53:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7563A3B01C9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04366-04 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.acc.umu.se (mail.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.156]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5753B00E9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id B664E5B for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: from suiko.acc.umu.se (suiko.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.162]) by mail.acc.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF174E for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: by suiko.acc.umu.se (Postfix, from userid 24225) id D4793803; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:45 +0200 From: Johan Svedberg To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: install applet server file without root Message-ID: <20060625235209.GA647bd.johan@svedberg.com> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at acc.umu.se X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:53:49 -0000 * Jun 24 16:53 Leon : > I am learning programming applets for gnome but it seems it requires > root privilege to install and test applets. Seanni[1] has met the same > issue but seems no one can answer. This is probably not the right place for this kind of questions. Don't know what is though. > My question is how can a user (no root) install a .server file. Thank > you all. You need to set BONOBO_ACTIVATION_PATH=/path/to/bonobo/servers -- Johan Svedberg, johan@svedberg.com, http://johan.svedberg.com/ From joeshaw@novell.com Tue Jun 27 10:10:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCBC3B013F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01576-09 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4E53B00F3 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26455 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2006 14:10:23 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?10.0.11.44?) (joe@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 27 Jun 2006 14:10:23 -0000 Subject: Re: Dashboard (was Nautilus Sidebar) From: Joe Shaw To: glenn@glennji.com In-Reply-To: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:08:41 -0400 Message-Id: <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.476 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2] X-Spam-Score: -2.476 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:10:56 -0000 Hi, On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 13:17 +0100, Glenn J. Mason wrote: > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is > the end of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information > display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. I actually just gave a talk about this yesterday at GUADEC. :) Dashboard was somewhat set aside while we developed Beagle. Dashboard is being revived as a Summer of Code project, though. Unfortunately there's not really any code to show yet. > Was it just too much overhead on the system or something? > It may be at some point, but we just didn't have enough applications instrumented at the time for this to be an issue. Joe From mailforwho@googlemail.com Tue Jun 27 11:32:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB943B009F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05536-10 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320263B0075 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f25so1888847pyf for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.37.18 with SMTP id p18mr7316061pyj; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606270831i5dd82a1bhef1c6bd07ac6adee@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:31:51 +0100 From: Who To: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Re: Dashboard (was Nautilus Sidebar) In-Reply-To: <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.581 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.581 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, glenn@glennji.com X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:32:26 -0000 On 6/27/06, Joe Shaw wrote: > I actually just gave a talk about this yesterday at GUADEC. :) > > Dashboard was somewhat set aside while we developed Beagle. Dashboard > is being revived as a Summer of Code project, though. Unfortunately > there's not really any code to show yet. > Are there any plans to put it in the Nautilus Sidebar, or for anything vaugely similar to the functionality described at http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions ? I'm still interested in hearing whether anyone thinks such an idea is possible, or worth doing :) Who From iaingnome@gmail.com Thu Jun 29 19:30:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276F13B00B5 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14918-06 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7D03B0095 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id z74so24973pyg for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.63.2 with SMTP id q2mr26810pyk; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.45.19 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35fafc140606291630y2f4f73d4nbcd9c0fa649ad3fc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:30:15 +0100 From: "Iain *" To: rah@rahga.com, "Desktop Development List" Subject: [PATCH]In death members of Project Mayhem have a name MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.365 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.365 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:30:17 -0000 ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi, My name is iain. I make patches. Here is one. I was playing Tali and noticed that my player is called "Human" by default. Attached is a patch that uses g_get_real_name so that I don't feel quite so generic when I play it. iain ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name=his-name-is-robert-polson.patch; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_ep1qym8l Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="his-name-is-robert-polson.patch" SW5kZXg6IGd0YWxpL2d5YWh0emVlLmMKPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQpSQ1MgZmlsZTogL2N2cy9nbm9tZS9n bm9tZS1nYW1lcy9ndGFsaS9neWFodHplZS5jLHYKcmV0cmlldmluZyByZXZpc2lvbiAxLjc5CmRp ZmYgLVUyIC1yMS43OSBneWFodHplZS5jCi0tLSBndGFsaS9neWFodHplZS5jCTExIEFwciAyMDA2 IDA5OjQyOjA4IC0wMDAwCTEuNzkKKysrIGd0YWxpL2d5YWh0emVlLmMJMjkgSnVuIDIwMDYgMjM6 MjE6NTggLTAwMDAKQEAgLTc2MCw3ICs3NjAsMTggQEAKIAogICAgICAgICBmb3IgKGkgPSAwOyBp IDwgTUFYX05VTUJFUl9PRl9QTEFZRVJTICYmIG5hbWVfbGlzdDsgaSsrKSB7Ci0gICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgaWYgKG5hbWVfbGlzdC0+ZGF0YSkKLSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHBsYXll cnNbaV0ubmFtZSA9IGdfc3RyZHVwIChuYW1lX2xpc3QtPmRhdGEpOwotICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IAorICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGlmIChuYW1lX2xpc3QtPmRhdGEpIHsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIGlmIChzdHJjYXNlY21wIChuYW1lX2xpc3QtPmRhdGEsIF8oIkh1bWFuIikpID09 IDApIHsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgY2hhciAqcmVhbG5hbWU7CisK KyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLyogT2xkIGRhdGE6IFVwZGF0ZSAqLwor ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICByZWFsbmFtZSA9IGdfc3RyZHVwIChnX2dl dF9yZWFsX25hbWUgKCkpOworICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBnX3N0cmRl bGltaXQgKHJlYWxuYW1lLCAiICIsICdcMCcpOworICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgcGxheWVyc1tpXS5uYW1lID0g cmVhbG5hbWU7CisgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB9IGVsc2UgeworICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBwbGF5ZXJzW2ldLm5hbWUgPSBnX3N0cmR1cCAobmFtZV9saXN0 LT5kYXRhKTsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIH0KKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB9CisK ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBuYW1lX2xpc3QgPSBnX3NsaXN0X25leHQgKG5hbWVfbGlzdCk7CiAg ICAgICAgIH0KSW5kZXg6IGd0YWxpL3lhaHR6ZWUuYwo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09ClJDUyBmaWxlOiAvY3Zz L2dub21lL2dub21lLWdhbWVzL2d0YWxpL3lhaHR6ZWUuYyx2CnJldHJpZXZpbmcgcmV2aXNpb24g MS4yNApkaWZmIC1VMiAtcjEuMjQgeWFodHplZS5jCi0tLSBndGFsaS95YWh0emVlLmMJMjkgTWFy IDIwMDYgMDk6MjM6MDkgLTAwMDAJMS4yNAorKysgZ3RhbGkveWFodHplZS5jCTI5IEp1biAyMDA2 IDIzOjIxOjU4IC0wMDAwCkBAIC0zNSw0ICszNSw3IEBACiAKICNpbmNsdWRlIDxjb25maWcuaD4K KworI2luY2x1ZGUgPGdsaWIuaD4KKwogI2luY2x1ZGUgInlhaHR6ZWUuaCIKIApAQCAtNTgsNSAr NjEsNSBAQAogaW50IERpc3BsYXlDb21wdXRlclRob3VnaHRzID0gMDsKIGludCBDdXJyZW50UGxh eWVyOwotY2hhciAqRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW01BWF9OVU1CRVJfT0ZfUExBWUVSU10gPSB7 IE5fKCJIdW1hbiIpLAorY2hhciAqRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW01BWF9OVU1CRVJfT0ZfUExB WUVSU10gPSB7IE5VTEwsCiAJCQkJCQkgICAgIldpbGJlciIsCiAJCQkJCQkgICAgIkJpbGwiLApA QCAtMTE0LDUgKzExNywxNCBAQAogCiAJZm9yIChpID0gMDsgaSA8IE1BWF9OVU1CRVJfT0ZfUExB WUVSUzsgKytpKSB7Ci0JCXBsYXllcnNbaV0ubmFtZSA9IF8oRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW2ld KTsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBpZiAoRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW2ldID09IE5VTEwpIHsK KyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGNoYXIgKnJlYWxuYW1lOworCisgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICByZWFsbmFtZSA9IGdfc3RyZHVwIChnX2dldF9yZWFsX25hbWUgKCkpOworICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgZ19zdHJkZWxpbWl0IChyZWFsbmFtZSwgIiAiLCAnXDAnKTsK KyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIAorICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgcGxheWVy c1tpXS5uYW1lID0gcmVhbG5hbWU7CisgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgfSBlbHNlIHsKKyAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHBsYXllcnNbaV0ubmFtZSA9IF8oRGVmYXVsdFBsYXllck5hbWVzW2ld KTsKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB9CiAJCXBsYXllcnNbaV0uY29tcCA9IDE7CiAgICAgICAgIH0K ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489-- From iaingnome@gmail.com Fri Jun 2 19:59:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869683B047B for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32453-07 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.171]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C303B0B7F for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so671871uge for ; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=H1Ne4pKCRfVg5XCcNJOijkcp7kgP1jOGUnyBKNo10St1vW+TR/MaRL7mfp1YpYzR1ww/NPnbYtsozd5iHD4rZARvJpfeKJTDMoj1OiZ82HIA7f1V2ALUOqt8hjbt5qmawaaJxKaaz7JPIkDezWuiAq/zP6/mFLIkg2if+G0X7z0= Received: by 10.67.89.6 with SMTP id r6mr1253688ugl; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.245.8 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 00:59:23 +0100 From: "Iain *" To: "Desktop Development List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.888 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077, TW_RG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -0.888 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 23:59:26 -0000 ------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hi Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a maintainer these days? First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use this new system The patch is here: http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch and is also attached. lots of love iain ------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name=gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch; charset=ANSI_X3.4-1968 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_enz77jd7 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch" SW5kZXg6IENoYW5nZUxvZwo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09ClJDUyBmaWxlOiAvY3ZzL2dub21lL2dub21lLXRl cm1pbmFsL0NoYW5nZUxvZyx2CnJldHJpZXZpbmcgcmV2aXNpb24gMS41NTUKZGlmZiAtVTIgLXIx LjU1NSBDaGFuZ2VMb2cKLS0tIENoYW5nZUxvZwkxNyBNYXkgMjAwNiAyMjoxMDowNCAtMDAwMAkx LjU1NQorKysgQ2hhbmdlTG9nCTIgSnVuIDIwMDYgMjM6MTk6MjIgLTAwMDAKQEAgLTEsMiArMSwx MiBAQAorMjAwNi0wNi0wMiAgSWFpbiBIb2xtZXMgIDxpYWluQGdub21lLm9yZz4KKworCSogc3Jj 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------=_Part_5881_10988689.1149292763065-- From lucasr.at.mundo@gmail.com Sat Jun 3 06:15:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D02B3B04F5 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28056-04 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 326E13B0622 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so758994uge for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=be0ykkhnR+WInlr9zJKJ3Eg2z7QkHBPz/mS2UJdtwVZO5Za3jb8unUjjkVfETZAFRWc39WiZRaWUuPoblhjjhvWzgk517bpMwWIUwugErS7qPPHUitDvugxhhvQjbrj0ByMDtIeDvOj5b4ClEA+rvsnZIwwpbWAJiAWEZKN3rJk= Received: by 10.67.97.7 with SMTP id z7mr1557650ugl; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.32.17 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 03:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31a62e6f0606030315i5794061fx3afda4bd5a1d3599@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 07:15:02 -0300 From: "Lucas Rocha" To: "Desktop Development List" In-Reply-To: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.254 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.346, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.254 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 10:15:10 -0000 Hi Iain, AFAIK (and acoording to the MAINTAINERS file), gnome-terminal is maintained by Guilherme Pastore (aka fatalerror). I suggest you to file a bug and try to meet him on IRC. Behdad has been doing some stuff on this module too. p eace --lucasr 2006/6/2, Iain * : > hi > > Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a > maintainer these days? > > First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked > fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that > stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. > > Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program > instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus > pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use > this new system > > The patch is here: > http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch > and is also attached. > > lots of love > iain > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > > > From kalle.vahlman@gmail.com Sat Jun 3 11:21:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042763B067E for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11829-06 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210563B06CA for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so807287uge for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RsVv8gkP8m9sF8YRGPObFNgPMrFZhMxg2dj1ZuUMrD/5o3bHyLSTTVDdZvcK3l+E2oHXnO9ff2Wi4ktD4/8E4YcMxVkQUaO61hgwEWINDBbCHofhSfsE8DhkXjEtpiaL2S8cJXm+bDOAm+8d2uauZESHawvURG0Ft0YGVX8pnT8= Received: by 10.67.103.7 with SMTP id f7mr1758517ugm; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.16.10 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 08:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <177e83dd0606030821n5c774ad3p127dd3a6675e82e1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 18:21:27 +0300 From: "Kalle Vahlman" To: "Iain *" In-Reply-To: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <35fafc140606021659r48014f48w2c63973b49aa2d6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.49 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.448, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.49 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Desktop Development List Subject: Re: Gnome-terminal gets on the bus X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: zuh@iki.fi List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:21:32 -0000 2006/6/3, Iain * : > hi > > Not really sure who to send this to: does gnome-terminal even have a > maintainer these days? > > First there was Bonobo, and it was good for certain things, and sucked > fairly majorly for others, but it was not cross-desktop and all that > stuff that people like, so the good bits of it were replaced by DBus. > > Occasionally programs used Bonobo to implement unique program > instances. gnome-terminal was one of them. In the spirit of using DBus > pervasivly throughout the desktop I have ported gnome-terminal to use > this new system Very cool. Seems to launch way faster than bonobo version too after a quick test :) (though that might be 2.14.1 vs CVS too I guess) > The patch is here: > http://www.openedhand.com/~iain/gnome-terminal-gets-on-the-bus.patch > and is also attached. > > lots of love to > iain ;) -- Kalle Vahlman, zuh@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Sun Jun 4 15:26:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4B93B016C for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06133-05 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.192.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 002C43B02A5 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060604192622m1200nk46be>; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:26:23 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Gnome Desktop Development List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:26:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.641 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.332, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.641 X-Spam-Level: Subject: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 19:26:25 -0000 A common [fatal] error reported by a number of applications in the 2.15.x branch is: Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to open file '': No such file or directory GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed aborting... Questions: * Is there a simple work around? It is difficult to test 2.15.x with this error in place. * Any chance that this problem will be resolved any time soon? I have seen this problem in 2.15.0, 2.15.1, and 2.15.2. -Joseph -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From bjourne@gmail.com Sun Jun 4 16:21:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F543B01AC for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08773-06 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDA63B0101 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1042692wxd for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Hb49BjoqweARg0w5t1fwubOAcbRHt6rtJiiTAWtgSnZ3+F4OH33pOXhARWn3vwVWy6kqDi2iOKnFZPw2JKR3C8qvwy+eTYvI1Bzb+s1h+rA2KDJCI0VUUB+mCT9l7yayiKg8drLRqVlj8TiHujImfISlEdqio6Ue36336uFqRuQ= Received: by 10.70.49.6 with SMTP id w6mr5252855wxw; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.10 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 22:21:29 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.421 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_MV=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.421 X-Spam-Level: Subject: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 20:21:31 -0000 Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very much prefer svn instead of cvs. --=20 mvh Bj=F6rn Lindqvist From as583@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sun Jun 4 16:27:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99653B01AC for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09042-03 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.139]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5B63B016C for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from as583.emma.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.248.113]:34970) by ppsw-9.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.159]:587) with esmtpsa (PLAIN:as583) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1FmzBj-0002Xc-UQ (Exim 4.54) (return-path ); Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:27:07 +0100 Message-ID: <448341FB.80605@gnome.org> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:26:35 +0100 From: Andrew Sobala User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?= References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Andrew Sobala X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.509 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.064, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.509 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 20:27:14 -0000 BJörn Lindqvist wrote: > Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to > Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have > been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the > switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very > much prefer svn instead of cvs. Discussion happened on gnome-hackers; new date is 14th July. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2006-June -- Andrew From newren@gmail.com Sun Jun 4 19:03:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66DAD3B00D0 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17079-09 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.199]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058B23B0288 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1057642wxd for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=R7GruRgIZLPAkXceJSqXQP+VWzvqThkkwX1ScM7kmw6txaFHhFEDUh6fp+rn3fJbD3OMAOnM6VZg2F7S8zQoQhquZshi9t9n9+jYYDE3fF3bF4nmR8wXjRXQh2RN4yh37VhpDUzhpTZA3m8q5l8sf+E21p5FuEDO6fPqMOCRAvc= Received: by 10.70.117.16 with SMTP id p16mr5361597wxc; Sun, 04 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.7 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 17:03:50 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" In-Reply-To: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_DQ=0.077, TW_SV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 23:03:53 -0000 On 6/4/06, BJ=F6rn Lindqvist wrote: > Supposedly, Gnome's CVS repositories were about to be converted to > Subversion 18th March this year. It didn't happen and not much have > been written about it on the infrastructure list. So I wonder if the > switch is still planned and when it will happen? I for one, would very > much prefer svn instead of cvs. Looks like we failed somewhere to get the word out about devel-announce-list widely enough. It's a very low volume list meant for important announcements. Granted, as aes mentioned, the general discussion happened on gnome-hackers but for those who'd prefer to just get the big announcements, the postponement[1] and new date[2] of the SVN migration were both announced to devel-announce-list. [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-March/msg00003.= html [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-May/msg00004.ht= ml From bjourne@gmail.com Mon Jun 5 05:52:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1BB3B00CE for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20033-02 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C378C3B031D for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 05:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1128508wxd for ; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=VMrV0zJYnZc0fD1VxiFU6iO0HMwOvUJii7CeNIne4sN/1ca5a5eoNh7bFx9Z9ad8xJbjVO+NDr5x2X/KgqpPy2/+pgcWkzKWJESg+2cqYe7VN2Po3B9AQ2FjyxKxudGZSGX3JmBq/AYm2grwUUdOPY1cV9xw77N9zClfsOn0AR4= Received: by 10.70.49.6 with SMTP id w6mr5849501wxw; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.10 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 02:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <740c3aec0606050252h780f6f63nb417e174eab1882f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:52:42 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <740c3aec0606041321m5391987y39497adf0d96ca68@mail.gmail.com> <51419b2c0606041603v5d56c74dw8f11dd750da7f53c@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: What happened to Subversion? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 09:52:47 -0000 > Looks like we failed somewhere to get the word out about > devel-announce-list widely enough. It's a very low volume list meant > for important announcements. Granted, as aes mentioned, the general > discussion happened on gnome-hackers but for those who'd prefer to > just get the big announcements, the postponement[1] and new date[2] of > the SVN migration were both announced to devel-announce-list. > > [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-March/msg0000= 3.html > [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-May/msg00004.= html Then I'm very sorry to have been bothering the wrong list unnecessary. /me goes and subscribes to yet another mailing list The new Subversion migration date is fantastic news though. --=20 mvh Bj=F6rn From William.Walker@Sun.COM Tue Jun 6 10:21:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A26B3B0182 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28117-01 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C373B0A96 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k56ELg6m000827 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0F00501ZP9UE00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.11] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0F002B2ZW4FRQ0@mail-amer.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:21:38 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-id: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.586 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.586 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:21:48 -0000 Hi All: We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would like to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal to include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the missing features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also done a fair amount of stability and testing work. We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of Gnopernicus: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to address the issues that arise. Thanks! Will (Orca project lead) From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 6 21:02:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198963B02E8 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01166-08 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.206]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD9E3B0119 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so95533wxd for ; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=uMjiD2UneBstxGvHvDUjCg20B/AKOA7TrAPOlIojwLeWRAYoc8aPUZKa86K9RbBmkohVgwdRxv0WpgmxKGK/wNrfrNiB5s59ipLN64fkMZtn1R93/tdqgaWAKEH0mEqq5FOAXfvdnCNTH04zG4woQnpwJUJEFV6sGQHcZuJp1GI= Received: by 10.70.33.8 with SMTP id g8mr307306wxg; Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.7 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606061802o2e6a876br82818f1864d6f50c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:02:22 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Willie Walker" In-Reply-To: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.572 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.572 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:02:26 -0000 On 6/6/06, Willie Walker wrote: > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > Gnopernicus: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html That email pretty much looks like the clincher to me; it looks to me like it resolves the only big issue I remember anyone bringing up. > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > address the issues that arise. Thanks for your awesome work. We've kind of sucked at getting the proposed modules all listed. Could you go to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Desktop and add orca (and, if you have time, the other proposed modules)? We should start getting those into the modulesets going out with releases and doing a better job of verifying the build and so forth (though I'm betting GARNOME is ahead in the game and has them included, which would be cool). As per the schedule at http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen, the "Module inclusion discussion heats up" on the week of July 12th. I can't imagine why orca wouldn't make it at this point, as it looks like you've already addressed any potential issues that could come up. But if you want to be on the safe side, just watch your d-d-l email that week and if any additional issues about orca are brought up you can address them. Hope that helps, Elijah From fcrozat@mandriva.com Wed Jun 7 11:02:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0503B0272 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22929-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office.mandriva.com (ezoffice.mandriva.com [84.14.106.134]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D433C3B0127 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trinidad.mandrakesoft.com (trinidad.mandrakesoft.com [192.168.100.216]) by office.mandriva.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4FA531 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:02:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Frederic Crozat To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Mandriva Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:02:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3-10mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:02:44 -0000 Le dimanche 04 juin 2006 à 15:26 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. a écrit : > A common [fatal] error reported by a number of applications in the > 2.15.x branch is: > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > open file '': No such file or directory > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > (object)' failed > aborting... > > Questions: > > * Is there a simple work around? > It is difficult to test 2.15.x with this error in place. > > * Any chance that this problem will be resolved any time soon? > I have seen this problem in 2.15.0, 2.15.1, and 2.15.2. You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 -- Frederic Crozat Mandriva From federico@ximian.com Wed Jun 7 12:58:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348273B0461 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31312-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B5A3B04FC for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17019 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2006 16:58:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO 164-99-120-35.boston.ximian.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2006 16:58:49 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: Frederic Crozat In-Reply-To: <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 11:54:38 -0500 Message-Id: <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:58:53 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > (object)' failed > > aborting... > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when builddir == srcdir. Federico From fcrozat@mandriva.com Wed Jun 7 13:03:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857CE3B0502 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31466-08 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from office.mandriva.com (ezoffice.mandriva.com [84.14.106.134]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039683B02D9 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trinidad.mandrakesoft.com (trinidad.mandrakesoft.com [192.168.100.216]) by office.mandriva.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCABD531 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 19:03:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Frederic Crozat To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Mandriva Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:03:31 +0200 Message-Id: <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3-10mdk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.57 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:03:35 -0000 Le mercredi 07 juin 2006 à 11:54 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero a écrit : > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > > (object)' failed > > > aborting... > > > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 > > It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when > builddir == srcdir. Easy workaround : rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h and rebuild : tarball was shipped with an incomplete gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h file. -- Frederic Crozat Mandriva From Matt.Keenan@Sun.COM Wed Jun 7 13:26:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FB33B047D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00550-01 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F703B006D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k57HQTEv011828 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:26:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J0I00H0130ZXK@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Matt.Keenan@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:26:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.150.120.79] (vpn-129-150-120-79.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.120.79]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0J0I00AG1344JB@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:26:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:26:27 +0100 From: Matt Keenan To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-id: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060119) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:26:32 -0000 Hi, What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME community ? Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is this something that people see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better solution ? As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the moment we really would like to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the preferred format is a necessity. Cheers Matt From ross@burtonini.com Wed Jun 7 13:43:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690793B045D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01751-03 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B766B3B02BA for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from burtonini.com (althur.gotadsl.co.uk [84.12.135.175]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B06EA33500E; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:37:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (ident=unknown) by burtonini.com with esmtp (masqmail 0.2.21) id 1Fo1yK-86I-00; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:37:36 +0100 From: Ross Burton To: Matt Keenan In-Reply-To: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> References: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d" Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:37:35 +0100 Message-Id: <1149701855.8920.49.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:43:03 -0000 --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 19:26 +0100, Matt Keenan wrote: > Hi, >=20 > What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME communit= y ? >=20 > Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is=20 > this something that people > see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better=20 > solution ? >=20 > As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the=20 > moment we really would like > to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the=20 > preferred format is a > necessity. I'd say that Docbook would make a good master source, as the user guide is also written in docbook. Ross --=20 Ross Burton mail: ross@burtonini.com jabber: ross@burtonini.com www: http://www.burtonini.com./ PGP Fingerprint: 1A21 F5B0 D8D0 CFE3 81D4 E25A 2D09 E447 D0B4 33DF --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBEhw7fLQnkR9C0M98RAlH3AJ9SQGc/4xzkv/EMKc5nfQ4m9N0eawCgxL6G y/1LhGBSG7RTJhB6hFhSdBQ= =tJHS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-tEejTpkHkAVckAXd+13d-- From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Wed Jun 7 14:05:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F2D3B0DCF for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03337-05 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B5743B0E23 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060607180513m1200pab1je>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:05:13 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:05:12 -0400 Message-Id: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.645 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.336, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.645 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:05:22 -0000 I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h * build * install The bad news is I still see the error. -Joseph =========================================================================== On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 19:03 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > Le mercredi 07 juin 2006 à 11:54 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero a écrit : > > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 17:02 +0200, Frederic Crozat wrote: > > > > > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: Error loading theme icon for stock: Failed to > > > > open file '': No such file or directory > > > > > > > > GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT > > > > (object)' failed > > > > aborting... > > > > > You are building with builddir != srcdir and it is the cause of the > > > problem. See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344163 > > > > It happens for a clean build from CVS as well as tarballs, and also when > > builddir == srcdir. > > Easy workaround : rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h and rebuild : tarball was > shipped with an incomplete gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h file. > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From federico@ximian.com Wed Jun 7 14:42:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CB43B069F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05780-02 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178E63B0DB6 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17247 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2006 18:42:01 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO 164-99-120-35.boston.ximian.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2006 18:42:01 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:37:51 -0500 Message-Id: <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.536 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_XV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.536 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:42:04 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: > > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > * build > * install > > The bad news is I still see the error. You may need to 1. tar xvf gtk.tar.gz 2. configure; make 3. rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h 4. make 5. make install I.e. let it build, then remove the header file, then build again. Federico From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Wed Jun 7 14:47:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8E73B0E0B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06186-03 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (unknown [216.148.227.155]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4878F3B0E45 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20060607184711m15001vu4je>; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:47:12 +0000 From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Federico Mena Quintero In-Reply-To: <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:47:10 -0400 Message-Id: <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.608 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.376, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, TW_XV=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -0.608 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:47:14 -0000 I have a sense of humor. I will give that a try. For what it's worth... Fedora/rawhide [PPC: updated daily] does not have this problem. I have expended a number of cycles examining their src RPMs, looking for the magic patch that has not yet made it upstream. Didn't find a thing. -Joseph ================================================================== On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 13:37 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: > > > > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > > * build > > * install > > > > The bad news is I still see the error. > > You may need to > > 1. tar xvf gtk.tar.gz > 2. configure; make > 3. rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > 4. make > 5. make install > > I.e. let it build, then remove the header file, then build again. > > Federico > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From j@bitron.ch Wed Jun 7 14:51:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F443B069F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06395-02 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpanel02.rubas.net (cpanel02.rubas.net [62.216.182.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9B63B050C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 80-219-211-5.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.219.211.5] helo=[192.168.1.33]) by cpanel02.rubas.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fo37q-0007ap-TH; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:51:31 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrg?= Billeter To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:52:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel02.rubas.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - bitron.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.524 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.524 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:51:48 -0000 On Mit, 2006-06-07 at 14:05 -0400, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I just tried out Frederic's suggestion: >=20 > * uninstall gtk+-2.9.2 > * extract the source from the f.g.o tarball > * rm gtk/gtkbuiltincache.h > * build > * install >=20 > The bad news is I still see the error.=20 Should be fixed in CVS http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/Makefile.am?r1=3D1.309&r2=3D1.310 The patch applies to Makefile.in in the 2.9.2 tarball, too. J=C3=BCrg From matthias.clasen@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 16:30:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E6A3B00C7 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12519-04 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.204]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320F03B015D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 8so229327nzo for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:30:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=LYjL12EdChuw+lZQqGKA1cluImN0sNHjc01h7M8DGB+xDSg+wAumrDC8qg7n22LA/lC/uigEi4+t5IqDUuFSmksedxwnbaDjdRgoGguMEAsbS5PB9A6xS/kmGa5JyyVHxmWZXO5FxfTVWGLv4KceoGK0Z1/cNSLdk/Ro9eJn08U= Received: by 10.37.2.14 with SMTP id e14mr1202727nzi; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.14 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:23:57 -0400 From: "Matthias Clasen" To: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." In-Reply-To: <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149705471.30645.42.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149706030.3863.18.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.508 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.092, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.508 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Federico Mena Quintero , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:30:17 -0000 On 6/7/06, Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D. wrote: > I have a sense of humor. I will give that a try. > > For what it's worth... Fedora/rawhide [PPC: updated daily] does not have > this problem. I have expended a number of cycles examining their src > RPMs, looking for the magic patch that has not yet made it upstream. > Didn't find a thing. > I didn't fix it in 2.9.2-3, I worked around it by dumping in a correct gtkbuiltincache.h after unpacking the tarball (look for SOURCE2) Matthias From matthias.clasen@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 17:43:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF013B062C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17008-09 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820093B0CA4 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so306896nzo for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=d+WFIAUU5OYshLt/IV/hRwTCOUzbrliGiCWI9t7E5m8mUfO5PB8UcfRVB6ZzKpXTvLIWf1aPeQ2SRftAAEeAodIgYJj6gy3hqZrARMmMa4m9m/dEEg0HMuHwnt1d4ue6VI+jhy4eMqhjRBqUklfQl2VSUy8zwfpgpm7JME0IY+o= Received: by 10.36.121.19 with SMTP id t19mr1310096nzc; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.14 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:43:07 -0400 From: "Matthias Clasen" To: "Matt Keenan" In-Reply-To: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <44871A53.8080000@sun.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.47 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.47 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Man Page Preferred Format ? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 21:43:11 -0000 On 6/7/06, Matt Keenan wrote: > Hi, > > What is the preferred man page format perceived within the GNOME community ? > > Currently nroff is what is used for the few that are in existence, is > this something that people > see as sufficient ?, would DocBook / SGML or something else be a better > solution ? > > As we are in the process of updating/writing some man pages at the > moment we really would like > to contribute what is done back to the community, so knowing what the > preferred format is a > necessity. > The few man pages that are shipped with the glib and gtk api docs are in docbook now, which has the advantage that we can easily include them in the api docs, too. Matthias From federico@ximian.com Thu Jun 8 21:30:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACED93B04DB for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18212-01 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043353B0E3D for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19069 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2006 01:30:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?164.99.120.169?) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Jun 2006 01:30:03 -0000 From: Federico Mena Quintero To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrg?= Billeter In-Reply-To: <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> References: <1149449181.14083.26.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149692558.21349.4.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149699278.30645.33.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1149699812.21349.12.camel@trinidad.mandrakesoft.com> <1149703512.3863.7.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> <1149706320.3710.4.camel@juerg-pd.bitron.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 20:25:50 -0500 Message-Id: <1149816350.30645.108.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: 2.15.x: 'loading theme icon for stock' problem persists... X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 01:30:09 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 20:52 +0200, Jürg Billeter wrote: > Should be fixed in CVS > > http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/Makefile.am?r1=1.309&r2=1.310 Excellent catch, like swatting flies with a whip. Thanks for the fix :) Federico From frandavid100@gmail.com Wed Jun 7 09:51:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61263B0423 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18107-06 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214C53B0229 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so301601uge for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=MDFIZQJpAQibpDfJtY5XAuqiQNe2+Fhc5gvr2qEhTEJuP+sClW+mqb7679oTHoDc00/RZxajkdJTWDwv8wW6EiY+Yjzlcq+PjsOsXMSMxaclaW/V9ZnuTDcAG7wX6lKocTAaZhXBLV0E6kkOOnsnBnKcG3rgLWAm8SY1pGymIgQ= Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id u9mr530800ugg; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.103? ( [84.123.96.251]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id q40sm998482ugc.2006.06.07.06.51.49; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:49 -0700 (PDT) From: David Prieto To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:47 +0200 Message-Id: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 06:37:00 -0400 Subject: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:51:54 -0000 Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it goes: First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run these programs together. As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, internet, epiphany. It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea (middle-click), epiphany. What do you think about it? Here's the original post: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/48788 From johan@svedberg.com Fri Jun 9 06:54:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC263B0121 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16742-01 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.acc.umu.se (mail.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.156]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9A33B0004 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF6652 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from suiko.acc.umu.se (suiko.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.162]) by mail.acc.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C3327 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: by suiko.acc.umu.se (Postfix, from userid 24225) id A174C803; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:34 +0200 From: Johan Svedberg To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at acc.umu.se X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:54:38 -0000 * Jun 09 12:37 David Prieto : > Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it > goes: > > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my > e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run > these programs together. > > As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, > internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, > internet, epiphany. > > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? You could ofcourse create desktop shortcuts or panel launchers for the applications you use most frequently. But I like the idea, another alternative might be to add a "Run application" in the right-click menu. -- Johan Svedberg, johan@svedberg.com, http://johan.svedberg.com/ From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Fri Jun 9 06:54:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05FBD3B1041 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16715-02 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B24F3B0121 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 06:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-05.sun.com (d1-emea-05.sun.com [192.18.2.115] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k59Asee9009449 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:54:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-05.sun.com by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0L00K019O99Q00@d1-emea-05.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from dhcp-226-200.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.226.200]) by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0L00J4MAB3EQ10@d1-emea-05.sun.com>; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:54:35 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: David Prieto Message-id: <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Organization: Sun Microsystems Ireland Ltd. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.583 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.583 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:54:46 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51 +0200, David Prieto wrote: > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse button, as not everyone has one. In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are always run when you log in? Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From jan@jgc.homeip.net Fri Jun 9 07:52:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94903B1073 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20462-09 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.fastline.no (mx2.fastline.no [82.134.2.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698923B01A7 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) X-SMTP-Auth: no Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.fastline.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1B6A00041F for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx2.fastline.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx2.fastline.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 10287-01-2 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xciton-pc2 (a80-126-167-165.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.126.167.165]) by mx2.fastline.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0ECBA000409 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:56:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Jan de Groot To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <20060609125005.GA5438a.johan@svedberg.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:52:29 +0200 Message-Id: <1149853949.4427.0.camel@xciton-pc2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.3.2 (20050629) (Debian) at mx2.fastline.no X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.578 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.578 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:52:28 -0000 On Fri, 2006-06-09 at 12:54 +0200, Johan Svedberg wrote: > You could ofcourse create desktop shortcuts or panel launchers for the > applications you use most frequently. But I like the idea, another > alternative might be to add a "Run application" in the right-click > menu. That, together with the middle click, just like the "open link in new tab" feature in most browsers. From ktirf@users.sf.net Fri Jun 9 09:30:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1DD63B031E for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27240-08 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from delta.deserv.net (delta.deserv.net [83.102.151.66]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A0293B0003 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.119.253.205] (helo=[10.232.104.122]) by delta.deserv.net with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Foh4a-0003JR-0k for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:30:48 +0400 Message-ID: <448977EC.3040905@users.sf.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:30:20 +0400 From: Alexey Rusakov User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1149850476.6697.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-Id: ktirf@nale.ru X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.503 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.503 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:30:30 -0000 Calum Benson wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51 +0200, David Prieto wrote: > > >> It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch >> the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click >> applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea >> (middle-click), epiphany. >> >> What do you think about it? >> > > I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you > shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse > button, as not everyone has one. > What about Ctrl-LeftClick and Ctrl-Enter as alternatives? Anyway, ... > In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit > better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding > three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all > three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are > always run when you log in? > ... this is a good question :) -- Alexey "Ktirf" Rusakov From xavier.bestel@free.fr Fri Jun 9 11:52:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BFFF3B024A for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03877-05 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp13.wanadoo.fr (smtp13.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E543B026D for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from awak.dyndns.org (AGrenoble-152-1-21-70.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr [82.122.20.70]) by mwinf1304.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1F9B6700008B for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:52:32 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060609155232129.1F9B6700008B@mwinf1304.orange.fr Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=capoeira ident=stunnel4) by awak.dyndns.org with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1FojIE-0000uL-00; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:53:02 +0200 From: Xavier Bestel To: David Prieto In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:52:28 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.283 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.283 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 15:52:35 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51, David Prieto wrote: [...] > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your multiselections. Not that I advise using several mouse buttons at once. Xav From mpt@myrealbox.com Fri Jun 9 13:28:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1EA3B0268 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09915-07 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leucothea.redline.site5.com (leucothea.redline.site5.com [216.118.97.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827E73B011B for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ool-44c0bc13.dyn.optonline.net ([68.192.188.19] helo=[192.168.0.5]) by leucothea.redline.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fokm3-000296-RA; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:27:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <2873c7c3e7a66e8562d38938161412e1@myrealbox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Matthew Paul Thomas Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:26:46 -0400 To: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV. X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - leucothea.redline.site5.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - myrealbox.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:28:03 -0000 On Jun 7, 2006, at 9:51 AM, David Prieto wrote: > ... > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read > my e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually > run these programs together. You can set these programs to run automatically when you log in, using the "Startup Programs" tab of the "Sessions" preferences. (This could be much more obvious than it is, for example by giving the control panel a name better than "Sessions".) You can also add the programs to the panel at the top/bottom of the screen by clicking on an empty part of it (if there is one) with the right mouse button (if you have one) and choosing "Add to Panel...". (Again, this could be much more obvious than it is. For example, it should show up when you search the help for "how can I start programs quickly".) -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ From frandavid100@gmail.com Fri Jun 9 15:04:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74B83B00E9 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14795-04 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF323B009F for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so598739nfe for ; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=TDtsoF1S0IXExUOckOSPJ6L4SnxSBbw786CXC1ndr+VxKZgYeje5qx7P11UN3LkGDhYHCfV80q30mhUWDoV3egDP2esip+uQBLnrkcBHjtfwFaTgR/FrNj292b5eejPlWanVL+zj76zZQv61da7Nof8Kkt3xt0+Bxr8klD22wWQ= Received: by 10.48.238.9 with SMTP id l9mr2640423nfh; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.103? ( [84.123.96.251]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id l21sm1702180nfc.2006.06.09.12.04.43; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: David Prieto To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 21:03:36 +0200 Message-Id: <1149879816.5224.2.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 19:04:47 -0000 I'm sorry, I replied to Calum instead of sending my mail to the list: _____________________________________________________________________ > I suppose it would be harmless enough, although the HIG does say you > shouldn't have features that you can only perform with the middle mouse > button, as not everyone has one. Well, in Nautilus for example you can open a folder while closing its folder if you double-click on it with your middle button OR if you double-shift+left-click. Why not do the same here? Users without a middle button could just use shift+left-click as a replacement. > In the interests of trying to understand the user requirement a bit > better, could you explain why you'd rather have this than just adding > three launchers to your panel, or creating a launcher that runs all > three apps together, or saving your session so that those three apps are > always run when you log in? Well, those are quite subjective reasons but I don't like launchers on the panel, aesthetically. Besides, I use only one panel and space is scarce on it. Creating a launcher for all three programs would not be very useful since I could want to launch just two of them (epi could be already open), or I could want to launch amule too. It's just not flexible. About setting them to launch when logging in, I already said it in my first message: I could just be somewhere else and yet be logged in, maybe because amule is running. Then I could get to the computer and want to read the forums, get my mails... you get the point. I know my reasons could be minor for some, but well, they're good for me. From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Sun Jun 11 05:05:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580113B00DC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30987-09 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DC093B0092 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 05:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.11] helo=salmon.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 11 Jun 2006 10:03:54 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:03:53 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: David Prieto In-Reply-To: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.592 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.592 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:05:07 -0000 On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, David Prieto wrote: > Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:51:47 +0200 > From: David Prieto > To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Subject: opening a program with the middle button > > Hi, I have a suggestion I already posted in Ubuntu Launchpad. Here it > goes: > > First thing I do when I switch on my laptop is open evolution to read my > e-mails, liferea to get my news feeds and epiphany to browse some > forums. Not necessarily when switching it on, but overall I usually run > these programs together. > > As of now, this requires too many clicks - I have to click applications, > internet, evolution, applications, internet, liferea, applications, > internet, epiphany. > > It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch > the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click > applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea > (middle-click), epiphany. > > What do you think about it? Mozilla allows you to bookmark groups and open several pages at once. Perhaps we need a way to create a launcher which launches more than one program? (I guess you could do that using a script.) Alternatively you could either set those programs to automatically start every session, or more easily save your session on logout so it comes back up the same when you login. I've done similar things this way in the past. -- Alan H. From sri@aracnet.com Sun Jun 11 11:44:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251F43B0125 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16813-02 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B6B3B008B for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-21-239-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.239.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5BFgSHT018681; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:42:29 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Willie Walker In-Reply-To: <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:41:41 -0700 Message-Id: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.339 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.049, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.339 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sri@aracnet.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:44:49 -0000 So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? sri [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it seems kind of early to me. On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:21 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > Hi All: > > We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would like > to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal to > include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the missing > features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also done a > fair amount of stability and testing work. > > We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on > orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html > > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > Gnopernicus: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html > > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to the > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is still a > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to adoption > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > address the issues that arise. > > Thanks! > > Will > (Orca project lead) > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Sri Ramkrishna From sri@aracnet.com Sun Jun 11 11:49:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001E13B00E0 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16636-10 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ruby.spiritone.com (ruby.spiritone.com [216.99.193.130]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759C03B0084 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-21-239-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.239.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by ruby.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5BFlwTA018262; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:47:59 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Alan Horkan In-Reply-To: References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:47:11 -0700 Message-Id: <1150040831.16558.6.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.407 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.116, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.407 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sri@aracnet.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:49:30 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 10:03 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote: > > What do you think about it? > > Mozilla allows you to bookmark groups and open several pages at once. > Perhaps we need a way to create a launcher which launches more than one > program? (I guess you could do that using a script.) Anything that would require programming would not be very user friendly. I wonder if something like "launcher group" or something where you can create a launcher that runs many programs in sequence with the option of having each application start depending on whether the last application actually ran. The value is still somewhat questionable in creating such a thing. I'm not sure if many people would use such a thing. Sometimes I wish we could add such features via plugin for some enterprising 3rd party to write. sri -- Sri Ramkrishna From shaunm@gnome.org Sun Jun 11 14:15:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA23D3B01A2 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27106-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.wolfram.com (webmail.wolfram.com [140.177.205.37]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F493B0195 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from recto.housenet.network (DHCP-74-136-213-67.insightbb.com [74.136.213.67] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by webmail.wolfram.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5BIDn5t008851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:13:50 -0500 From: Shaun McCance To: sri@aracnet.com In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:13:42 -0500 Message-Id: <1150049622.16073.14.camel@recto.housenet.network> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.106, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 18:15:20 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 08:41 -0700, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > sri > > > [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it > seems kind of early to me. The mail from Thomas Friehoff at Baum[1] is pretty much a clincher. If the Gnopernicus team is behind Orca, and favors Orca being Gnopernicus's successor, then it really isn't a question of "if", only "when". What we need to think about now is the migration path for our users. Many users have vested time and resources into making Gnopernicus work for them, so unless we can have a completely seamless forced transation (a difficult thing to do), we are going to see users using Gnopernicus for some time. So we do need to consider how we're going to accomodate those users as we shift stuff over to Orca. This means thinking about our accessibility control panels, how we present our accessibility tools to the users, and how we're documenting our accessibility stack. Perhaps an IRC meeting could be set up among the Orca developers, the Gnopernicus developers, and a couple of user interface and documentation people. Hash out a plan, report it back to the community, and make it happen. I'm excited. Are you excited? I'm excited. Let's make good things happen. -- Shaun [1] This one: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:21 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > > Hi All: > > > > We (the Orca team) have been very busy the past few weeks and would > like > > to provide more status of where we are with respect to the proposal > to > > include Orca in GNOME 2.16. I believe we have implemented the > missing > > features in Orca that are present in Gnopernicus, and we've also > done a > > fair amount of stability and testing work. > > > > We've also broached the subject of including Orca in GNOME 2.16 on > > orca-list@gnome.org. The discussion thread can be found here: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00002.html > > > > We've received positive feedback thus far (public and private), > > including the following message from Baum, the maintainer of > > Gnopernicus: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html > > > > as well as the following from the Ubuntu accessibility team: > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00012.html > > > > I believe we are on track here, and we are definitely committed to > the > > effort. With the exception of carrying on a discussion on > > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, the proposal/acceptance process is > still a > > mystery to me. I'd like to make sure we are not missing something > > really big here, and I'm curious about what other barriers to > adoption > > may exist for getting Orca into GNOME 2.16. We will work hard to > > address the issues that arise. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Will > > (Orca project lead) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > desktop-devel-list mailing list > > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > -- > Sri Ramkrishna > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From danilo@gnome.org Sun Jun 11 15:27:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 323E13B01BF for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30006-01 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from avet.kvota.net (unknown [147.91.15.40]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A100D3B00F7 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by avet.kvota.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 882887C2A4; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:06:24 +0200 (CEST) To: sri@aracnet.com References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> From: danilo@gnome.org (=?utf-8?q?Danilo_=C5=A0egan?=) Mail-Followup-To: sri@aracnet.com, Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:06:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> (Sri Ramkrishna's message of "Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:41:41 -0700") Message-ID: <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:27:37 -0000 Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. Who are we to argue them? ;) Cheers, Danilo From newren@gmail.com Sun Jun 11 19:06:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC5C3B0253 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07553-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.195]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B4103B01CC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so906381wxd for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=fiCZ1GWCGSwxPYc+Wf7HtEdlTKk8eW/Ob7qlq52akIeZ/Ni6ap/5Ds64jor+Jdc7/Jl8P7zXudzyaVaCjbTRTEk2s1QnbwKDPSsO0Zk+94ETijxhEa2rverDJCpnloHBkRMhENFP5zm6Cb/PAiy+//TcZTXdMVuHzvte1bmEf/g= Received: by 10.70.62.1 with SMTP id k1mr5817701wxa; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.89.16 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 17:05:43 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: sri@aracnet.com In-Reply-To: <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.465 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_JH=0.077, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.465 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:06:46 -0000 On 6/11/06, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? I did respond[2] but I think your email points out some potential confusion in the community worth addressing. > [1] I'm assuming this is the time to propose new modules. Although it > seems kind of early to me. Actually, (application) module proposal time has come and passed. We're now in the extended module evaluation period. In past releases, the proposal deadline and module freeze were so close together that we weren't ever even close to actually meeting the module freeze deadline. The decision would always come like a month afterwards when we were deep into freezes. So, we changed things this time around[3]. As per the release schedule[4], new application modules needed to have been proposed by April 24th; we have a longer module evaluation period, module discussion will heat up on July 10th to discuss any lingering issues, the release team meets the following week with the community input, and module choice is frozen July 24th. I believe all the modules that have been proposed have been added to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Desktop and http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/Bindings. If anyone spots a missing module, please add it. Also, it'd be great if everyone could build and test the proposed modules[5]. Thanks, Elijah [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-June/msg00009.html [3] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-April/msg00000.html [4] http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen [5] Along those lines, I updated the meta-gnome-proposed module in jhbuild just this last week to assist with that. However, it's missing gtk-sharp and tomboy, which should probably be fixed somehow. It's similar to the missing gtk2-perl and gtk-java issue, which I also don't know quite how to solve. I'm pretty sure there's a bug I filed somewhere with some advice from James that I said I'd follow up on but which I never got around to. From murrayc@murrayc.com Mon Jun 12 02:39:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC333B015B for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22320-05 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com (webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com [66.33.201.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA1A3B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 02:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.murrayc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by webmail1.sd.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5C02C21B; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 194.138.18.132 (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user murrayc@murrayc.com) by webmail.murrayc.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:38:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> In-Reply-To: <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:38:41 +0200 (CEST) From: "Murray Cumming" To: sri@aracnet.com, "Willie Walker" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.52 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.52 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 06:39:40 -0000 > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of confusion. Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? > Who are we to argue them? ;) Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 05:43:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE3203B00A6 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28785-07 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FCE13B00E6 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5C9hNTO024786 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 03:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J0Q00F01QZPDT@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:43:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-176.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.176]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J0Q002ILR0ARL@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:43:22 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:44:30 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, gnome-18n-list@gnome.org Message-id: <1150105469.7019.1.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: ATK and AT-SPI branched for gnome-2-14 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:43:59 -0000 Hi: ATK and AT-SPI have branched for gnome-2.14. New stuff is on HEAD, stable development should use the 2-14 branch. I haven't made a new release since the branch yet, perhaps today (AT-SPI HEAD depends, for the moment, on ATK HEAD). regards Bill From sbrabec@suse.cz Mon Jun 12 05:51:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944163B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28662-09 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.suse.cz (styx.suse.cz [82.119.242.94]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9660E3B000D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hammer.suse.cz (hammer.suse.cz [10.20.1.86]) by mail.suse.cz (SUSE CR ESMTP Mailer) with ESMTP id 3AD7062805F; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Stanislav Brabec To: Xavier Bestel In-Reply-To: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: SuSE CR, s. r. o. Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:06 +0200 Message-Id: <1150105806.13727.15.camel@hammer.suse.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:51:09 -0000 Xavier Bestel wrote: > Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: > right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the > right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your multiselections. > > Not that I advise using several mouse buttons at once. It was a nice feature allowing to do more actions in the menu during one rolling down. And a nice Amiga Multiselect utility also enabled multiple selections outside menu, in file lists, file managers etc. without using of Shift button: - Place mouse pointer over the first item you want to select - Press left button - Keep the left button pressed and press right button - Release left button, keeping right button pressed - Use left button clicking to add toggle items selection, keeping right button pressed - Release right button Both these features I often miss in GTK+. -- Best Regards / S pozdravem, Stanislav Brabec software developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SuSE CR, s. r. o. e-mail: sbrabec@suse.cz Drahobejlova 27 tel: +420 296 542 382 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 296 542 374 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 10:42:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D43A3B009D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06770-05 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0743B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-09.sun.com ([192.18.2.119]) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CDrF4H002463 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-09.sun.com by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00L012HDZ700@d1-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([129.150.117.3]) by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R0014U2KQRX50@d1-emea-09.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:53:10 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Xavier Bestel Message-id: <681C6D4D-8762-49C9-9187-3DCBF1B04022@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1149688308.5859.1.camel@localhost> <1149868347.7711.45.camel@capoeira> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.582 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.016, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.582 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List Subject: Re: opening a program with the middle button X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:42:37 -0000 On 9 Jun 2006, at 16:52, Xavier Bestel wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 15:51, David Prieto wrote: > [...] >> It would be so much better if middle-clicking a launcher would launch >> the program, but leave the menu open. Then I would only have to click >> applications, internet, evolution (middle-click), liferea >> (middle-click), epiphany. > > Under AmigaOS you could do it that way IIRC: > right-click to open the menu, then without releasing the > right-mouse-button use the left-mouse-button to do your > multiselections. Yep, that was handy alright... in fact you can do that in GTK menus too, but only if you use the keyboard: Space will check the focused checkbox/radiobutton menu item and keep the menu open; Enter will check it and close the menu. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From jdub@waugh.id.au Mon Jun 12 14:13:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A90F3B0386 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23613-04 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710B83B07BD for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net [150.101.121.112]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C552C3C432 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:03 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3C4D940DB; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:00 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:06:00 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060612180600.GA22122@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-23-686 i686 Reply-By: Fri Jun 16 04:05:44 EST 2006 X-Uptime: 04:05:44 up 11 days, 3:57, 7 users, load average: 0.37, 0.18, 0.11 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:13:45 -0000 > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. See the background on a11y list. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Compassionate Conservative: I don't know what that is, sounds like a Volvo with a gun rack." - Robin Williams From DonScorgie@Blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jun 12 14:15:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843013B00FD for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23885-01 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D4D3B0738 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.143] (helo=anti-virus02-10) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Fpqro-0008HB-Vo for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:10:25 +0100 Received: from [82.41.205.39] (helo=[192.168.1.1]) by asmtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1Fpqrl-00080P-6Q for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:10:21 +0100 From: Don Scorgie To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:11:05 +0100 Message-Id: <1150135865.11844.7.camel@Madaline> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.517 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.517 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:15:33 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: > > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? The gnopernicus maintainers commented on the ocra list (linked to in this thread somewhere): http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Don > > > Who are we to argue them? ;) > > > Murray Cumming > murrayc@murrayc.com > www.murrayc.com > www.openismus.com > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From newren@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 15:08:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50EF53B0345 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26293-10 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B048A3B0343 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so1028979wxd for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=TgVzJyw224nRJqXUuu+ThZrYi2XXmnlbm/MRSEN8qb2JI2E2qmGazGo/Wt994nfgnZRbDS6Lz76e+I4uqmsAya1REm1V9JJUjL1aj+jeskwwsoYUJvLb83onPB5WO5DLLgjqPXvsZ1w7ERN/+Cb5Id03ai+G3rD7i55tA+0ETcM= Received: by 10.70.14.5 with SMTP id 5mr3881692wxn; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.89.16 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606121207vad8be21t6b0782b3159c835b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:07:33 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Murray Cumming" In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:08:32 -0000 On 6/12/06, Murray Cumming wrote: > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html (Which Will linked to in this post: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-June/msg00008.html) From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 15:27:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 662903B00E5 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27322-03 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B2CA3B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-06.sun.com ([192.18.39.116]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CIohjx021697 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-06.sun.com by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00101FW17D00@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.26.228] by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R00CEDGCI6530@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:42 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: Murray Cumming Message-id: <448DB782.2070303@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:27:15 -0000 Hi Murray , >>> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we >>> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? >>> >> It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, >> especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. >> > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? > Please see this message from Thomas Friehoff, the VP of Engineering at BAUM, maintainers of Gnopernicus: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. From shaunm@gnome.org Mon Jun 12 16:04:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8775F3B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28570-06 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wolfram.com (mailhub.wolfram.com [140.177.10.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E573B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shaunmlx.wri.wolfram.com (shaunmlx.wri.wolfram.com [140.177.4.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by wolfram.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CK3UoC010479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:03:31 -0500 From: Shaun McCance To: Murray Cumming In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:03:30 -0500 Message-Id: <1150142610.22619.0.camel@shaunmlx> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:04:30 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: > > Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > >> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). Are we > >> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. > > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? Right here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html -- Shaun From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Mon Jun 12 18:42:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909A03B0078 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01759-06 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710533B00A5 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-05.sun.com (d1-emea-05.sun.com [192.18.2.115] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5CMe23L023927 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-05.sun.com by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0R00H01LMM9J00@d1-emea-05.sun.com> (original mail from Calum.Benson@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([194.125.72.67]) by d1-emea-05.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0R00DP3QYQQZ60@d1-emea-05.sun.com>; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:40:02 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:39:58 +0100 From: Calum Benson In-reply-to: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Murray Cumming Message-id: <6516EFE3-F4F7-49C8-B0D9-B73C8C4E2DC7@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.56 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_MK=0.077, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.56 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:42:34 -0000 On 12 Jun 2006, at 07:38, Murray Cumming wrote: > >> Today at 17:41, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: >> >>> So there's been no comment on this (or I must have missed it). >>> Are we >>> considering Orca for GNOME 2.16[1]? >> >> It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, >> especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. Shaun posted the evidence earlier in the thread :) http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From gnome@nextreality.net Mon Jun 12 23:35:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088263B0009; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08673-05; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E478D3B0010; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 5FE5E35904; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:34:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id C501C35901; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 21:34:30 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: release-team@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list , GNOME Documentation , gnome-i18n@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500001, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_LR=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: bug buddy branched X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:35:51 -0000 Bug buddy has been branched. gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From andrew@operationaldynamics.com Tue Jun 13 01:51:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151553B0150 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12131-02 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay02.pair.com (relay02.pair.com [209.68.5.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B40DB3B0120 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13902 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2006 05:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO procyon) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 13 Jun 2006 05:43:56 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 150.101.122.233 From: Andrew Cowie To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <51419b2c0606111605r5a9f3311s483a9f996c039a16@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Operational Dynamics Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:59:18 +1000 Message-Id: <1150174758.5806.4.camel@procyon.operationaldynamics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.144, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_BG=0.077, TW_GT=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: Subject: What up, java bindings? X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:51:33 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 17:05 -0600, in a thread originally about "Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16", Elijah Newren wrote: > [5] Along those lines, ... > It's similar to the missing gtk2-perl and gtk-java issue, which I also > don't know quite how to solve. Oh? What's up? More to the point, what do you need us to do? Not that we have large team, but I'll do my best. ++ As an OT aside: our libraries are called glib-java, cairo-java, libgtk-java, libgnome-java, libglade-java, and libgconf-java being our release set at the moment, with libvte-java, and libeds-java joining this cycle. They're all on ftp.gnome.org. Quite the grab bag, with most following the libBLAH-java pattern, which was I believe at the request of the GNOME release team of the day when they multiplexed the previously straight forward "java-gtk" and "java-gnome" into the above mess. Before my time. A number have people have pointed out that naming like glade-java, along the lines of what the Mono boys and girls used (glade-sharp) would be nice. I agree, but at this point, given that the distros all adjusted their packages about 18 months ago when java-gnome shattered into its constituent pieces, that changing the naming pattern would be a large and painful change without that much benefit. [Not that I needed the scars to reinforce the obvious, but I was doing the Gentoo ebuilds then and it was quite a pain to shuffle and create that many new packages. I am quite conscious of the cost of change especially when it comes to package naming, etc. Given the enormous hassle it is to prepare up 6 headed for 8+ libraries every time we cut a java-gnome release, I'm not in a rush to add to my problems.] So, libBLAH-java it is... unless, as a part of a GNOME wide cleanup, we adopt a common naming scheme for bindings packages. If that's the case, then I'm sure the powers that be can align the stars to get package names changed in every distro simultaneously. Yup. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Technology strategy, managing change, establishing procedures, and executing successful upgrades to mission critical business infrastructure. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ Sydney New York Toronto London From danilo@gnome.org Tue Jun 13 05:17:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58993B008F for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17857-05 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from supa.sekjur.com (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7FE3B000A for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D81421F205; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown by localhost (amavisd-new, unix socket) id client-EFXCVfB9; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.121] (dhcp-87-116-155-154.marshall-bg.customer.sbb.co.yu [87.116.155.154]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2CAD21F1F3; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Danilo Segan To: Murray Cumming In-Reply-To: <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:15:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sekjur.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Willie Walker , sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:17:28 -0000 У пон, 12. 06 2006. у 08:38 +0200, Murray Cumming пише: > > > > It is pretty clear that we want to replace Gnopernicus with Orca, > > especially since Gnopernicus maintainers support that as well. > > It is? Where have they said this? If so, that would resolve a lot of > confusion. As pointed to in original e-mail: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2006-June/msg00004.html "We support the Orca team's proposal to make Orca the default screen reader / magnifier on the GNOME desktop in GNOME 2.16 - and for Orca to be the spiritual and logical successor to Gnopernicus." Perhaps I am trusting e-mail exchange too much? (Though, I don't think I am ;) > Or is the old "This'll make them actually comment on it." trick? No, I didn't mean it like that. Though, if they didn't actually send the above message (we all know how easy it is to forge e-mail headers), they'd have certainly replied so far. Cheers, Danilo From William.Walker@Sun.COM Tue Jun 13 11:55:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468343B000C; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28918-08; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E903B00D9; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-02.sun.com ([192.18.108.176]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5DFsBuL025314; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0T00J012NLRP00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM); Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0T009D82UA4MV4@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:54:09 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Danilo Segan Message-id: <1150214050.5017.16.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1144699176.1595.35.camel@localhost> <2cb10c440604101310t149e9f41y6477003873f11a70@mail.gmail.com> <1144704825.15818.18.camel@localhost> <58d389c20604101511k165c683dmccbd58db128f7dfe@mail.gmail.com> <1144772264.3921.124.camel@cacharro.xalalinux.org> <1144787604.2407.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1145451279.14897.87.camel@localhost> <444BAA00.80600@nextreality.net> <1149603699.5937.20.camel@localhost> <1150040502.16558.3.camel@localhost> <87d5dfh8io.fsf@avet.kvota.net> <45691.194.138.18.132.1150094321.squirrel@webmail.murrayc.com> <1150190138.5548.10.camel@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: Cc: sri@aracnet.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Murray Cumming Subject: Re: Proposal to add Orca to GNOME 2.16 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:55:14 -0000 > No, I didn't mean it like that. Though, if they didn't actually send > the above message (we all know how easy it is to forge e-mail headers), > they'd have certainly replied so far. I can assure you that the message is indeed for real as we've had telephone conversations with Thomas and the Gnopernicus team regarding this transition. In addition, if it were fake, I can assure you that I would also let you know. Thanks! Will From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Tue Jun 13 16:27:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6215E3B03D8 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05552-08 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E17C3B03F0 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-06.sun.com ([192.18.108.180]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5DKQxAT005525 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0T00501EYOJY00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0T009Q0FGXLT93@mail-amer.sun.com> for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: GNOME Desktop Message-id: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.703 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.639] X-Spam-Score: -1.703 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 20:27:55 -0000 As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video plugins are currently in beta-test. http://shop.fluendo.com/ While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed to a per-use license). They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the desktop market. In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that represents such a small percentage of desktop users. Is this worth exploring? Brian From rbultje@ronald.bitfreak.net Wed Jun 14 15:47:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DF33B0112 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10759-04 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (unknown [24.29.109.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D623B01B6 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (cpe-66-65-0-167.nyc.res.rr.com [66.65.0.167]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5EJjjTm009201; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: "Ronald S. Bultje" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:43:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 (2.2.3-4.fc4) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:47:12 -0000 On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). [..] > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald From sri@aracnet.com Thu Jun 15 00:34:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CCB3B00CA for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11360-03 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [216.99.193.114]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC40D3B00B7 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 00:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [127.0.0.1]) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5F4XmTw009989; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:48 -0700 Received: (from sri@localhost) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k5F4XkZ5009987; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:33:46 -0700 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: "Ronald S. Bultje" Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 04:34:09 -0000 On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could license it. I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have probably heard it before. :-) sri From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Thu Jun 15 17:16:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995B83B00D0 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00998-06 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF1E3B006C for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:16:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5FLFCvC005262 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0X004016M4PP00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0X00AK171AVSV0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-reply-to: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: Sriram Ramkrishna Message-id: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.521 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.521 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:16:15 -0000 >>> Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a >>> license with the GNOME community >> >> Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Is there a more appropriate forum for discussing a topic like this? Apologies if my previous email was inappropriate. I certainly do not want to encourage the GNOME community to violate any important ideals. Obviously one ideal that it wouldn't violate is giving our end-users the best desktop experience possible. It seems a bit hard to really do this without finding and supporting creative ways to allow popular desktop IP to integrate with the desktop. But "allowing" IP to integrate doesn't mean that the GNOME community needs to support it financially, obviously. I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. I just wanted to mention the idea and see if there might be interest. From the responses, it seems like there isn't much. But that is fine since end users can go to the Fluendo store to purchase the plugins directly if they want them. > I had a whole rant about proprietary stuff, but you guys have > probably heard it before. :-) While I certainly understand it would be bad for the GNOME community to support non-free projects at the expense of free projects, I didn't think I was suggesting anything that would detract from free software. If enough users/companies are willing to pony up the money to pay for a license, then this isn't taking away from money earmarked for other free projects. In fact, the Foundation could reasonably insist that some extra money to fund free projects would be required for them to consider supporting a non-free project. Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely make free software more popular rather than less. Since the license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't work well. The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate with the desktop. Fluendo is already doing this, so to a degree the need is being met. Really the opportunity to work more closely together only makes it more affordable for everyone. Brian From thomas@apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 07:29:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFD53B0007 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27074-01 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.es6.egwn.net (server02.es6.egwn.net [195.10.6.12]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731023B000B for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net (server07.fr4.egwn.net [62.39.85.77]) by mx1.es6.egwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9EF4F82E3; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 5261F83C17; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server07.fr4.egwn.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16333-39; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thread.fluendo.lan (core.fluendo.com [195.10.6.237]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 46C3683C14; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thomas.fluendo.lan (thomas.fluendo.lan [192.168.1.10]) by thread.fluendo.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A96BFE8F; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:10 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Thomas Vander Stichele To: Sriram Ramkrishna In-Reply-To: <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:29:08 +0200 Message-Id: <1150457348.23862.202.camel@otto.amantes> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: By amavis at egwn.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.683 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_SBL=3.16] X-Spam-Score: 0.683 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:29:46 -0000 Hi, > On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 03:43:49PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > > to a per-use license). > > [..] > > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > > license with the GNOME community > > > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. > > Ronald is correct, it would violate the Free as in Freedom. However, > you should be taking this to the distributions rather than the GNOME > community itself. Distributors and perhaps user's themselves could > license it. Where is the start of this thread ? Nobody I've asked seems to have anything before Ronald's mail. Thomas From thomas@apestaart.org Fri Jun 16 10:31:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32B83B0076 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31386-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.es6.egwn.net (server02.es6.egwn.net [195.10.6.12]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163283B0011 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net (server07.fr4.egwn.net [62.39.85.77]) by mx1.es6.egwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E544F8353; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id AED6483C18; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.fr4.egwn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server07.fr4.egwn.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18233-24; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thread.fluendo.lan (core.fluendo.com [195.10.6.237]) by mx1.fr4.egwn.net (spiffy mail daemon) with ESMTP id 9CCCD83C14; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from thomas.fluendo.lan (thomas.fluendo.lan [192.168.1.10]) by thread.fluendo.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20788FE8F; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Thomas Vander Stichele To: "Ronald S. Bultje" In-Reply-To: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:30:54 +0200 Message-Id: <1150468254.23862.219.camel@otto.amantes> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: By amavis at egwn.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.683 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_SBL=3.16] X-Spam-Score: 0.683 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Cameron X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:31:37 -0000 On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 15:43 -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:26:59 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > > to a per-use license). > [..] > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > > license with the GNOME community > > Such a license would violate any of the ideals that we stand for. I agree with Ronald (though violate is overstating it :)) that this should not be done by the GNOME foundation as such. It would make sense for a group of distributions to team up in some form to do this - but the GNOME Foundation should be about Free Software. (For those of you like me that didn't get Brian's original mail - he was asking what people think about the possibility of some distributors giving money to the GNOME foundation so that the GNOME foundation could pay the license fees for proprietary codecs) Thomas From jdub@waugh.id.au Fri Jun 16 13:08:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A48363B00E0 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07045-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8343B0131 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net [150.101.121.112]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2123C28B for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:13 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C1860200E6; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:07:03 +1000 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060616170703.GM17421@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Reply-By: Tue Jun 20 03:04:24 EST 2006 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-23-686 i686 X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Uptime: 03:04:24 up 15 days, 2:56, 9 users, load average: 0.13, 0.05, 0.02 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:08:00 -0000 > I just found it interesting that Fluendo seemed agreeable to the idea that > the GNOME community in general could work together to purchase a single > license for all users. If there were enough interest to do something like > this, it would make the GNOME user experience more exciting/modern, save > money for everyone involved, and give access to the IP to all GNOME users. It seems more appropriate that this be pursued by distributors and Fluendo themselves (distributing directly to end users) than GNOME. We don't control the integration or immediate end-user experience, so there's not a lot we can do that will directly impact users here - unless you can think of other opportunities. If you mean "us" to include all distributors as well, that is a different issue. :-) (btw, you wrote a very long mail for a few short points) - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "You can't just find cake. Cake isn't naturally occuring." - Penny Arcade From cjb@mrao.cam.ac.uk Fri Jun 16 15:50:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7F03B00DC for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18185-06 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk (mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk [131.111.48.8]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8473B0074 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skye.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.48.158] ident=mail) by mraos.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FrKJZ-0001YY-20; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:09 +0100 Received: from islay.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.48.119]) by skye.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1FrKJY-0004jt-00; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 To: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> From: Chris Ball Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> (Brian Cameron's message of "Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:15:13 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Social Property, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , Sriram Ramkrishna , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:50:09 -0000 >> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Brian Cameron said: > Also, it seems supporting popular IP multimedia codecs would likely > make free software more popular rather than less. Since the > license must be renewed each year, such an arrangement could be > terminated in the future if people found the arrangement didn't > work well. "Those who would give up freedom to purchase a little temporary popularity deserve neither." I think that Sriram's right about talking to the distributions. You'll find that most (Fedora, etc) have already committed to not ship patent-encumbered codecs regardless of whether a license is available, though. See, for example, the lack of success ESR had with suggesting that Fedora license an MP3 decoder: http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2006-March/msg01286.html - Chris. -- Chris Ball From murrayc@murrayc.com Fri Jun 16 17:51:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6923B0106 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22708-10 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarthymail-a5.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-176.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.176]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB5B3B01D2 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noname (p5497EE72.dip.t-dialin.net [84.151.238.114]) by swarthymail-a5.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B6E109EAC; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME From: Murray Cumming To: Brian Cameron In-Reply-To: <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> References: <1150314229.4507.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060615043346.GB7996@aracnet.com> <4491CDE1.4030706@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:50:21 +0200 Message-Id: <1150494621.5811.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.481 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.118, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.481 X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Ronald S. Bultje" , Sriram Ramkrishna , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:51:08 -0000 On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 16:15 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: [snip] > The unfortunate reality is that for a computer to be functional with > multimedia, it is necessary for some intellectual property to integrate > with the desktop. [snip] Ignoring the rest of this thread, the start of which hasn't reached my inbox yet... We are not against "Intellectual property", or copyright in general. This is the kind of phrasing I'd expect in a "Linux is for communists" article. We just like to license our copyrighted stuff in a particular way, and generally prefer software that does that too. So I think you really need to avoid this odd terminology, if it's not what you mean, or understand. Murray From Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Fri Jun 16 18:13:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56933B04E4 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23880-02 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3029D3B05DF for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-03.sun.com ([192.18.108.177]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5GLTqdA022116 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J0Z00F012706I00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.9.61.158] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J0Z00JL52DRY1G0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:29:54 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME In-reply-to: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: thomas@apestaart.org Message-id: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060515) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.703 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.639] X-Spam-Score: -1.703 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:13:13 -0000 Thomas: I was going to point you towards the archives, but the GNOME archives seem all messed up - no emails before today. Here was my original email. It seems after the responses, that there is little interest in providing encumbered plugins on GNOME distros. While not exactly the answer I was hoping for, I appreciate people exploring the idea and explaining the state of affairs to me. Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. Brian Brian Cameron wrote: > > As many of you are probably aware, Fluendo is now selling licensed IP > plugins for decoding the MP3 audio format and WindowsMedia audio/video > plugins are currently in beta-test. > > http://shop.fluendo.com/ > > While I think it is important to support free multimedia codecs > (ogg-vorbis, FLAC, Speex, Theora, etc.), I think it is also good that > the desktop has evolved with a free multimedia framework that allows > IP-encumbered plugins to be easily integrated with the desktop if > users wish to pay the associated licensing fees. > > Here at Sun, we have been talking with Fluendo about licensing these > plugins. As you can imagine, it is fairly expensive to acquire a > license that allows a vendor to freely ship these plugins (as opposed > to a per-use license). > > They are especially expensive when one considers that many users use > UNIX in non-desktop environments and are likely not interested in the > plugins or paying for their bundled cost. Even adding together all > UNIX-based distributions, it is still a very small segment of the > desktop market. > > In our discussions with Fluendo, we asked them if an organization > like the GNOME Foundation could acquire a single license that could > be used for all GNOME users, regardless of distribution. Christian > Schaller from Fluendo said that he thought that this should be possible > if it could be organized. I am sure the details would need to be worked > out, but this might be something worth exploring so that GNOME > distributions can save money and end-users can have a more rich > experience. Perhaps several distributions could contribute enough in > donations to the GNOME Foundation to support Fluendo in this way? > > As an aside, I know that Real also offers WMA/WMV plugins that have > similar licensing fees. Also, Real obviously supports their own > RealMedia formats. So given the choice of paying a similar amount > of money to use GStreamer with WindowsMedia support or use Real > with both RealMedia and WindowsMedia support, I think it is likely > that organizations may well decide to support Real/Helix. > > Perhaps Microsoft and Fluendo would find it interesting to work a > license with the GNOME community directly since WindowsMedia and > RealMedia are competing formats and otherwise it seems Real may be in > a good position to become a Linux multimedia standard. Also, it seems > it would strengthen Microsoft's commitment to be fairly competitive if > they were to work out such an arrangement with an organization that > represents such a small percentage of desktop users. > > Is this worth exploring? > > Brian > From newren@gmail.com Fri Jun 16 19:33:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C7A43B06BB for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27362-02 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4A83B06CE for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so554080wxd for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.132.14 with SMTP id f14mr4808064wxd; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.102.9 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:26:36 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Buildability of tarballs and cvs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_TK=0.077, TW_YG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:33:40 -0000 Hi everyone, This is just a quick email to ask for help in improving the dogfoodability of our tarballs and CVS. See the lists below my verbose explanation if you want to jump to the details. :) Currently, buildability from either tarballs or CVS is pretty poor; I wouldn't consider either in a dogfoodable state. Most of it is just small things that are easily fixed, but it really adds up. We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we just fix the modules??"). There have also been multiple cases where we have had to revert modules to older versions. It's worth noting that not all is bad -- a quick search shows that there are over two dozen build bugs that have been fixed in the last week and that's only counting the ones that I filed. So people are definitely working hard on this. We'd just like to ask for some extra help where possible to clean up the remainder of the issues (in fact, a bunch of them already have patches...). Luis also wanted me to say: I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole release until they are all fixed. The email should stress that time-based releases only work if the code is dogfoodable all the time. I'd suggest requesting a volunteer to scream at d-d-l every time tinderbox breaks. IMHO, publicly shaming those who break the build is the only way you're going to achieve regular buildability- bugzilla is insufficient. Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gtkmm 344788 (and 344787) simple build warnings gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-vfs 344349 checks for selinux aren't robust gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x pygtk 344845 (probably fixed now by pygtk-2.15.2) deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) Problems in non-release-set modules: ----------------------------------- rhythmbox 343718 partially fixed, but fix has new problems rhythmbox 345036 last released tarball won't build under 2.15.x From rdepantalon@gmail.com Mon Jun 12 19:52:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDEE3B000C for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03892-01 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372463B0010 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 9so2191648nzo for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=kSddZwdPfx/WyIQpZeK81Xawz3TozY9KqS04dlWboeOVpJ3aaRLpDx/0dYKz3/feqSN+r6rxBHrdlPTaPOIWO4MsPINgNKuMajC4hM/g6nVo62d/l708y/OXodJ0MXIk/YSGVlYs3vVaS56GB65uLTQU0IOaufzFWiJhplelOpo= Received: by 10.36.216.6 with SMTP id o6mr2797570nzg; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.15.72 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:52:01 +0200 From: "Rousseau de Pantalon" To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.804 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_00_10=0.795, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.804 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:30:21 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:52:53 -0000 ------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Gnome Developers, I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version. End-users hate decisions. In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd. Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown. Step back. Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested. Step back. Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns. This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do. Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out. This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful. It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John ! Now for the good news: I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell. I like it very much. Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it. Kind regards, Rousseau de Pantalon. ------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Gnome Developers,

I experience the 2.14 logoff-dialog as a step back in userfriendlyness versus the 2.10/12 version.
End-users hate decisions.
In 2.10/12 a selection had to be made but once a decision was made this selection was rememberd.

Replacing the radio-buttons with normal push-buttons results in having to choose the desired action each-time on logoff/shutdown.
Step back.
Furthermore the logoff-dialog looks like a normal application dialog and as such misses all attributes to indicate session-logoff or shutdown is requested.
Step back.

Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to the radio-buttuns.
This is no improvement and I'm sure many more feel like I do.

Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it out.
This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most important guideline: being useful.
It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in
much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma.

I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John Ellis: Thanx John !

Now for the good news:
I've been using Gnome since version 1.4 and it's coming close to OS/2's WorkplaceShell.
I like it very much.

Thank you for creating Gnome and letting me use it.


Kind regards,
  Rousseau de Pantalon.


------=_Part_3027_13135666.1150156321237-- From james.henstridge@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 05:39:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 294AE3B06EB for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16649-01 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27B33B06B7 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so605960wxd for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.30.12 with SMTP id d12mr5397726wxd; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 17:37:17 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Rousseau de Pantalon" Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 20cb2d36a3ec3620 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.585 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.585 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:39:03 -0000 On 13/06/06, Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. > It hurts Gnome's increasing usability at a time where easy management of > devices like flash-memory and music-players put-in > much weight on Desktop Experience. Especially for newbies like my grandma. > > I installed the pre-2.10 version of the applet made available by John > Ellis: Thanx John ! Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective with hotplugable hardware, since you don't need to configure separate applets for each drive. Furthermore, the new applet works better with the rest of the desktop: 1. it can see all the drives that Nautilus can 2. it can unmount a volume even when a Nautilus window is open for the volume. If it is missing drives, that would mean that Nautilus can't see those drives in its "computer" view either. This would be a bug to fix in gnome-vfs (which would fix both the drive mounter and Nautilus). James. From decaycell@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 09:41:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5333B013A for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23044-07 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4693B00A6 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so1975371uge for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.9 with SMTP id c9mr23610ugj; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.0.0.7? ( [217.132.240.49]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id y7sm4378445ugc.2006.06.17.06.40.32; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A Framework for Desktop Syndication From: Yaron Tausky To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:07 +0300 Message-Id: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.042 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.042 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:41:23 -0000 Hi, I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps if you think this is all rubbish. :-) On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. -- Yaron Tausky From davyd@bridgewayconsulting.com.au Sat Jun 17 12:36:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D143B0165; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27617-08; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au [203.56.14.38]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164FF3B0083; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by oracle.bridgewayconsulting.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A7FE22E8004; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 (WST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:25:51 +0800 From: Davyd Madeley To: release-team@gnome.org Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.263 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-2.742, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=0.827, RCVD_IN_WHOIS_BOGONS=2.43, UNIQUE_WORDS=2.347] X-Spam-Score: 0.263 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:36:13 -0000 On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the new libxklavier). --d -- Davyd Madeley http://www.davyd.id.au/ 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA From joseph_sacco@comcast.net Sat Jun 17 15:14:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B47B3B00FD; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04221-08; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F663B010F; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plantain.jesacco.com (c-24-218-44-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.44.63]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060617191412m1200a7tike>; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:14:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs From: "Joseph E. Sacco, Ph.D." To: Davyd Madeley In-Reply-To: <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060617102551.GA14148@bridgewayconsulting.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:14:11 -0400 Message-Id: <1150571651.7998.6.camel@plantain.jesacco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.654 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.345, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=1.447, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -0.654 X-Spam-Level: Cc: release-team@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:14:57 -0000 The only people who do do not make mistakes are dead. We do appreciate your contributions to open source. Onwards, -Joseph ============================================================================ On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 18:25 +0800, Davyd Madeley wrote: > On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 05:26:36PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > > > gnome-applets 344995 last tarball (2.14.2) doesn't build with 2.15.x > > I suck. I think CVS builds though (it should have support for the > new libxklavier). > > --d > -- joseph_sacco [at] comcast [dot] net From dodji.seketeli@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:10:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245C03B0178 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06436-02 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.193]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEBBB3B0207 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so598956wxd for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.32.20 with SMTP id f20mr5883880wxf; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.112.1 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:10:05 +0200 From: "dodji Seketeli" Sender: dodji.seketeli@gmail.com To: "Yaron Tausky" Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> X-Google-Sender-Auth: c517aee610ca8ae6 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.151, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:10:24 -0000 Hello, This sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe you should bring the developer of applications like liferea into the loop. There is certainly something to be shared with them. This kind of API could simplify the code base of apps like liferea and allow other applications to provide syndication to their users, at a very low development cost. Dodji. On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: > Hi, > I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the > use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of a > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified > intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's > database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is > for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I can > think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. > I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think > there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps > if you think this is all rubbish. :-) > > On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this > seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to > do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not > integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. > > -- > Yaron Tausky > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From nudrema@gmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:33:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6F53B0337 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07353-02 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp40.mobistarmail.be (smtp40.mobistarmail.be [193.252.23.61]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFED3B0061 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (unknown [212.224.135.202]) by mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A9A00700008B; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060617203111694.A9A00700008B@mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be Message-ID: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:31:08 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060612) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rousseau de Pantalon Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.971 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.441, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.069] X-Spam-Score: -1.971 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:33:01 -0000 Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > Also, about the Disk Mounter Applet: Please revert to pre-2.10 or rip it > out. > This applet contradicts almost all Gnome HIG-guides: to begin with most > important guideline: being useful. Well, it actually is, especially when you don't show volume icons on your desktop (it's more convenient than showing the "network" place to unmount the volume) This reminds me of two issues : the impossibility to show *only* the volume icons (and not the remote location ones, see bug #159245), and the missing context menu of the places menu (yeah, context menu of menu sounds weird, but it would be great to be able to unmount a volume by right-clicking on its entry in the places menu...) From gnome@nextreality.net Sat Jun 17 18:35:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD3C3B0485; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13210-09; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A40DF3B0321; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 361E035904; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:34:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C8335901; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:34:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44948375.80400@nextreality.net> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:34:29 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: release-team@gnome.org Subject: Re: bug buddy branched References: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> In-Reply-To: <448E3246.5090903@nextreality.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_LR=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-i18n@gnome.org, GNOME Documentation , desktop-devel-list X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:35:21 -0000 This never made it to my mailbox, so I am resending. Brent Smith wrote: > Bug buddy has been branched. > > gnome-2-14 branch is for the stable release > HEAD has merged bug-buddy-xmlrpc branch and is where all new development > will take place. -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From jdub@waugh.id.au Sun Jun 18 06:13:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29A53B0776 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17209-03 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 406B33B015A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (unknown [81.80.162.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5E23D85D for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:11:51 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8D347410D; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:11:48 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:11:48 +0200 From: Jeff Waugh To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet Message-ID: <20060618101148.GB19478@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 i686 Reply-By: Wed Jun 21 12:09:21 CEST 2006 X-Uptime: 12:09:21 up 53 min, 5 users, load average: 0.11, 0.17, 0.24 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.543 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.543 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:13:17 -0000 > Either visually clarify the logoff-dialog like Ubuntu 6.06 or revert to > the radio-buttuns. I was pushing for a solution that sits somewhere in the middle of those points for Ubuntu, but for various reasons the single dialogue approach was taken. Separate dialogues for 'turn off' and 'log out' make sense, but making them very distinct (as with the Ubuntu or better, Windows XP) dialogues would be a great incremental improvement to what we already have in 2.14. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ Perl: Making thick Windows admins redundant since 1987. From jdub@waugh.id.au Sun Jun 18 06:42:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72523B0AF0 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19039-06 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node.waugh.id.au (node.waugh.id.au [70.85.31.216]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96AB3B09F2 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.waugh.id.au (unknown [81.80.162.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by node.waugh.id.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EEC83D862; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:14:05 +1000 (EST) Received: by home.waugh.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 09DF2410D; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:14:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:14:03 +0200 From: Jeff Waugh To: Elijah Newren Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs Message-ID: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> Mail-Followup-To: Elijah Newren , Gnome Desktop Development List References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> X-Message-Flag: Cranky? Try Free Software instead! X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 i686 Reply-By: Wed Jun 21 12:12:38 CEST 2006 X-Uptime: 12:12:38 up 56 min, 5 users, load average: 0.14, 0.15, 0.21 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:42:49 -0000 > We have felt forced to include a growing number of build-fix patches with > each 2.15.x release so far, which seems rather suboptimal ("why can't we > just fix the modules??"). ... 8< ... > Luis also wanted me to say: > I'd note that I think the r-t's position should be to refuse to > release such tarballs, and consider refusing to release the whole > release until they are all fixed. Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release management process, cf. signature. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2006: Vilanova i la Geltrú, Spain http://2006.guadec.org/ "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak From lists@edmack.com Sun Jun 18 07:29:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBE73B0321 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20926-05 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vega.idns2.com (vega.idns2.com [85.92.70.238]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DD63B02EF for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [83.245.47.174] (helo=[10.0.0.10]) by vega.idns2.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FrrTK-0004l5-4d; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:26 +0100 Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication From: Ed Mack To: Yaron Tausky In-Reply-To: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> References: <1150551367.1437.16.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:13:12 +0100 Message-Id: <1150614792.8849.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - vega.idns2.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - edmack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:15 -0000 > daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified Perhaps you should look into getting the D-BUS interface standardised through Free-Desktop so that applications can rely on it outside of Gnome. Ed Mack From 5madfarmers@gmail.com Fri Jun 16 18:41:21 2006 Return-Path: <5madfarmers@gmail.com> X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82673B0382 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24905-05 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8303B022B for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c39so718501pyd for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.37.18 with SMTP id p18mr5094493pyj; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.28.4 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:35:01 -0500 From: "5 Mad Farmers" <5madfarmers@gmail.com> To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Need an icon and stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:55:10 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:41:21 -0000 First, sorry for the noise but I figure this is the correct list. I'm about 1/3 done with a program that is GPL and intended for Gnome users. "DVD Juicer" not that I'm a name mimic or anything. The program is just a simple C wrapper (gtk of course) around extract/transcode type tools and the program itself isn't linked to any questionably licensed libraries - it calls external programs. It aims for simplicity and the hope is the people that use it won't have to understand frame rates, codecs, yada yada yada. The program picks the main track (all can be selected) and the user just hits "record" and that's that. In any event I'm not very artistically gifted and am looking for somebody to develop an icon for it. I pretty much know what I'm after but don't have graphic skills. After that I guess I'm wondering about hosting issues. Assuming that I get it banged into useable state, at that point I'd be kind of wanting a mailing list and perhaps someplace to host a tarball, bugzilla too I guess. I'm not subscribed but lurk the list so if you're interested in the icon thing I'd appreciate an email. If somebody can point me to the details for web hosting issues I'd appreciate that too. Thanks for your time. ---- I didn't spend money on the optional funny tag line. Jeff Waugh used to have very funny ones so just paste one of his here. From fherrera@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 10:56:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CD83B0100 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31366-04 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D27AE3B0089 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2212674uge for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.9 with SMTP id c9mr919239ugj; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.13 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:48:42 +0300 From: "Fernando Herrera" Sender: fherrera@gmail.com To: "GNOME Desktop Hackers" Subject: Crash reports from GNOME bindings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3fe5fbd740cb679d X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.391 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.133, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.391 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 14:56:25 -0000 Hello, current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and Gtk# applications, so here is the question: Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for GNOME 2.16 release? Salu2. From luis.villa@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 11:37:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86C33B0CBB for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00472-10 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.194]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C753B0C12 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so668272wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.116.8 with SMTP id o8mr7058887wxc; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.10.19 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2cb10c440606180829g5729c210p27134929060a7073@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:29:33 -0400 From: "Luis Villa" To: "Fernando Herrera" Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.558 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.558 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:37:36 -0000 Larry Ewing swore to me he'd do this for mono... Larry? :) By the way, let me suggest that this is really critical for binding-based apps to mature. GNOME without bug-buddy would still be very unstable. Bringing bug-buddy to the people developing with your bindings is a *huge* bonus for them, even if they don't know it :) Luis On 6/18/06, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From gjc@inescporto.pt Sun Jun 18 12:02:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2537E3B0CC3 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01599-07 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from animal.inescn.pt (correio.inescn.pt [194.117.24.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233553B0CC5 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/7) with ESMTP id k5IG111T008021; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:01:01 +0100 (WEST) Received: from pong.inescporto.pt (pong.inescn.pt [194.117.26.74]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/5) with ESMTP id k5IG0rMG007976; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:00:54 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pong.inescporto.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AAE5119288; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:57:41 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings From: Gustavo Carneiro To: Fernando Herrera In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INESC Porto Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:00:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at inescporto.pt X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.389 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BG=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.389 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:02:01 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-18 at 17:48 +0300, Fernando Herrera wrote: > Hello, > > current vesion of bug-buddy (HEAD) has a working "--include" option. > The idea of this option is to get info about non-standards crashes. > > Non standard crashes are, for example, python, C# or java Falta Exceptions. > > With current C applications we are getting all segfaults from > libgnomeui handler, that invokes bug-buddy with a pid to run gdb on > it. But we want also reports coming from gnome-python, gnome-java and > Gtk# applications, so here is the question: > > Are you guys (these bindings maintainers) ok with this --include > option to add info from your crashes? Could we have these handlers for > GNOME 2.16 release? This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). Thanks and regards. > > Salu2. > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list From nudrema@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 15:25:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264F73B0115 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08453-02 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp40.mobistarmail.be (smtp40.mobistarmail.be [193.252.23.61]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5052F3B008F for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (unknown [212.224.135.11]) by mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D887F7000088; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:52 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060618192452886.D887F7000088@mwinf4017.mobistarmail.be Message-ID: <4495A882.2080608@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:24:50 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Steve_Fr=E9cinaux?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060612) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rousseau de Pantalon Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet References: <4494668C.70609@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.973 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.443, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.069] X-Spam-Score: -1.973 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:25:59 -0000 Rousseau de Pantalon wrote: > 1. > The fact that it can see all drives Nautilus can see *is* the problem. > (My harddrives and their partitions are *not* hot-pluggable -- are your's ?) > If I want to see *all* my partitions, mounted or not, I'll open the > Computer Icon. > An applet such as this should at least filter out harddisk-partitions > and only show removable (usb) devices. > Better yet, have a customizable filter on volume-label / id / > device-name or so. In fact, it looks like a bug in your side. Here I only have an icon for my floppy disk (which can't be mounted automatically) and my CD or USB drive when I put them in... My permanent partitions (and I have several of those) don't show up. > 2. > The user cannot filter the devices / partitions shown. Does not matter since only the non-permanent ones should be shown. The icon appears when I plug my USB drive in, or when I put a CD in my CD drive, and then disappears after unmounting/ejecting it. > 3. > All Icons look alike. > It's just a replica of the Computer Icon. > One cannot assign icons to distinguish devices. Once again it looks like a bug. Here (Ubuntu Dapper, Gnome 2.14) I have a different icon for CD and for floppy. > ON THE RIGHT is a panel with the pre-2.10 applet representing my: > - floppy-drive > - pendrive #1 (floppy-disk-size -- bootable) > - the 64MB XD card in my printer > - my 256MB pendrive > - my other 256 MB pendrive > - my 750MB zipdisk > - my DVD-ROM player > - my DVD-writer > - my USB 5G mini-harddrive > - my MP3-player's internal 256MB memory > - my MP3-players 512MB SD extension BTW are you sure you don't have all those in your fstab and let hal/udev/whatever do its job ? It looks weird to me to have that many different usb drive placeholders... I guess not. The previous applets had that issue of not being friendly with this auto-configuration stuff: it wasn't possible to make one show up when you plug an USB drive. Actually, this works even if you've never used a USB key before. Looking at my fstab, I can see I have an entry for my CD-ROM drive, and for my IDE hard drives. That's all. Not even a line for my floppy, nor usb drives. > I propose the following: > - A filter in which the user can select the mountable devices to be > shown on the panel. > - The ability to attach a meaningful (custom) icon that represents the > device. > - Falling back to fstab if mounting/unmounting using udev/hotplug does > not do the trick. > - Make famd more aware of Nautilus created files/folders like > .Trash----- and thus not blocking unmounts. Maybe you should fill it as a bug in bugzilla if you think it's really useful to some people. -- Steve http://tw.apinc.org From benoit@placenet.org Sun Jun 18 16:21:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 381A33B000A; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09725-01; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ibook.free.fr (benoit.placenet.org [82.241.234.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81BA3B0071; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ibook.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B6458DF; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:52 +0200 (CEST) Subject: gnome-system-monitor has been branched From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Beno=EEt?= Dejean To: gnome-i18n@gnome.org, gnome-doc-list@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, release-team@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1" Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:16:51 +0200 Message-Id: <1150658211.603.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:21:23 -0000 --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The stable branch is gnome-2-14 and the development branch is HEAD. --=20 Beno=C3=AEt Dejean JID: TazForEver@jabber.org GNOME http://www.gnomefr.org/ LibGTop http://directory.fsf.org/libgtop.html --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Ceci est une partie de message =?ISO-8859-1?Q?num=E9riquement?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_sign=E9e?= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBElaajliyxJIUSPQoRAtcDAJ9JZw+cTZKTWNXZBBYFCtnpm/kJuQCeO14Y Kl72P/ZsSyMPW7l+8680xm8= =ubQu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-gmAoGnQvGyVDezvSSLq1-- From fherrera@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 16:36:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CEBD3B00AF for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09616-05 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B8E3B000A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2273703uge for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id u9mr4817144ugg; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.13 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:35:18 +0300 From: "Fernando Herrera" Sender: fherrera@gmail.com To: "Gustavo Carneiro" Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings In-Reply-To: <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 105387f1bb21b58d X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.51 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.090, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.51 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:36:18 -0000 On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed by bug-buddy after the bug report. I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. Salu2 From james.henstridge@gmail.com Sun Jun 18 22:13:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C8B3B02DE for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20489-08 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.205]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2019D3B0196 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h29so718551wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.15.4 with SMTP id 4mr1982726wxo; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:47:45 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Alan Horkan" , "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Re: Gnome 2.14 default logoff dialog and diskmounter-applet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: b5f0f0028f3b89ab X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.589 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.589 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:13:50 -0000 On 19/06/06, Alan Horkan wrote: > > Could you elaborate about which aspects of the drive mounter you find > > to be problematic? The current design should be a lot more effective > > Dont know what the original commenter disliked about the applet but I > found it annoying that the icons are set to be generic looking drives > ("mystery meat") to start with, even though each button is assigned to > specific device type. Only when the drive is mounted change to look like > CD/USB/Floppy etc and that little bit of extra guesswork/memorisation is > something I could do without. That is something that might be worth fixing. The drive mount applet gets all the drive images from gnome-vfs (using gnome_vfs_drive_get_icon and gnome_vfs_volume_get_icon). If gnome-vfs is changed to provide better icons for unmounted drives/volumes, that will fix their display in the applet and Nautilus. James. From paolo.maggi@polito.it Mon Jun 19 03:28:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4733B0DB7; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30352-05; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from polito.it (anacreon.polito.it [130.192.3.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE963B0BA0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:28:21 -0400 (EDT) X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's FindAttachments (free) Received: from [82.105.171.149] (account d003505@polito.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by anacreon.polito.it (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPSA id 39168140; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:03 +0200 Subject: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Paolo Maggi To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:11:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.41 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.41 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:28:53 -0000 Hi, I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the languages name (the iso_639 module). I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? Ciao, Paolo From Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM Mon Jun 19 05:50:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D13CA3B0004; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02234-10; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (gmpea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.1.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EB03B008F; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-emea-02.sun.com (d1-emea-02.sun.com [192.18.2.112] (may be forged)) by gmpea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5J9nVFW019335; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-02.sun.com by d1-emea-02.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1300C01PF1AF00@d1-emea-02.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.150.120.119] by d1-emea-02.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J13006BTPYFPW88@d1-emea-02.sun.com>; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:30 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:27 +0100 From: Darren Kenny Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-reply-to: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sender: Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM To: Paolo Maggi Message-id: <44967327.4060809@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060602) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:50:46 -0000 Has anyone looked into the use of Tim Fosters (yeah Glynn's brother) open language tools? https://open-language-tools.dev.java.net/ I know they are in Java, but this is the main point of what it addresses - the sharing of translations - while it doesn't have the "server" functionality, it does go some way to supporting the idea of sharing of translations. Darren. PS - I'm no expert in L10N or I18N, so please excuse my ignorance... Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? > > Ciao, > Paolo > > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From james.henstridge@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 06:40:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC373B008F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04861-01 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8272D3B00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so171003wxd for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.130.3 with SMTP id c3mr8315800wxd; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:39:56 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Paolo Maggi" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8275e60f19f7fc95 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:40:48 -0000 On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > Hi, > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't be presented as such to the user. James. From ArC@gulic.org Mon Jun 19 06:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7685C3B00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05102-08 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es [193.145.138.5]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D52433B008F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (Postfix, from userid 43062) id 57E74C00E0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:07 +0100 (WEST) Received: from savor.gulic.org (gulic.ulpgc.es [193.145.155.10]) by smtp1.gestion.ulpgc.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14619C00A8 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:07 +0100 (WEST) Received: from socios.gulic.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by savor.gulic.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3048C415B for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 (WEST) Received: from phpmailer ([217.126.206.203]) by socios.gulic.org with HTTPS (PHPMailer); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:35:06 +0100 To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org From: Alberto Carlos Ruiz Subject: Re: A Framework for Desktop Syndication Message-ID: <3acf4f39f60be389c617b40fbe1978cb@socios.gulic.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.71] X-Mailer: FeLaMiMail version 0.9.5 Organization: gulic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-PostfixSecure-Antispam: valid X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.444, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:47:21 -0000 dodji Seketeli escribi=C3=B3:=20 Hi there I've been working around using feed syndication on the desktop, in fact = I've wrote a little app to syndicate art.gnome.org brand new atom format, to automatic install backgrounds from the site, Jilorio, (http://aruiz.synaptia.net/siliconisland/2006/05/jilorio_feed_fo.html) Gtk and metacity themes are also planned. While I was writting the app, I was wondering how could I centralize the feed agregation since I would use several feeds, and I've been thinking another uses of feeds around the desktop. So I think that a solution like this could rock to approach a "live desktop" which can change using the internet content. >Dodji. > >On 6/17/06, Yaron Tausky wrote: >> Hi, >> I've been thinking about implementing a new framework, to abstract the >> use of various syndication formats on the desktop. It would consist of = a >> daemon that registers feeds over D-BUS and reads them at specified >> intervals, and clients which will be able to tap into the daemon's >> database and get notifications about new updates. The intended use is >> for reading blogs, news sites, podcasts, etc. Another possible use I = can >> think of is to aggregate software updates notifications. >> I'd like to hear your opinions on this concept -- whether you think >> there is a need for such a framework, have another use case, or perhaps >> if you think this is all rubbish. :-) >> >> On a side note, I'm not an experienced GNOME developer, and since this >> seems like a rather simple project to implement, I hope I'll be able to >> do it by myself. My motivation is the feeling that feeds are not >> integrated enough into the desktop -- I'd like to improve this state. >> >> -- >> Yaron Tausky >> >> _______________________________________________ >> desktop-devel-list mailing list >> desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list >> >_______________________________________________ >desktop-devel-list mailing list >desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > From isak.savo@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 08:36:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F2A3B0C86 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11267-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qb-out-0506.google.com (qb-out-0506.google.com [72.14.204.234]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2013B3B0D60 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id e11so84670qba for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.124.12 with SMTP id b12mr4271765qbn; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.181.6 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50b611120606190510hac0a14cvabbe1aa3b0de5193@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:10:26 +0200 From: "Isak Savo" To: "James Henstridge" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:36:29 -0000 2006/6/19, James Henstridge : > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. This is also what the FSF states on their license page[1]. That page also contains links to already translated versions of the three GNU licenses. They are unofficial though, in the sense that it is the English version that what counts in court. Isak [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#UnofficialTranslations From alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk Mon Jun 19 08:37:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A663B0C86; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11302-04; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (unknown [81.2.110.250]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E433B0C98; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:36:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5JCpUKM004774; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:30 +0100 Received: (from alan@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5JCpTFs004773; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: alan set sender to alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk using -f Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Alan Cox To: James Henstridge In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:51:29 +0100 Message-Id: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.59 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.59 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:37:01 -0000 Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a foreign language will not find much favour. The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less important property. The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. Translations really should include a translation of the license text where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that the American English version is the authorative document for legal purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and what rights you have given them. Alan From rosechr@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 12:32:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48553B01C6 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20459-06 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.174]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C7C3B0196 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2608745uge for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.16 with SMTP id 16mr2246685huw; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.12 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:31:50 +0200 From: "Christian Rose" Sender: rosechr@gmail.com To: "Paolo Maggi" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 276aabd410967e48 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.32 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.280, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.32 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:32:39 -0000 On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > languages name (the iso_639 module). I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least for the short License declarations (like "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: 1) Most common widget and menu names are already defined (and translated) in GTK+. A "License" button would be the same thing. 2) If there was an "add a license dialog to my app" API for developers to use, it would make sense to allow a template for the short declarations of most common licenses to be used. If run in a non-English locale, also display a non-official translation if it exists. 3) External dependencies that help translation (like the iso_639 module) are very useful, but developers are often not aware of it, and for obvious reasons they try to avoid unnecessary dependencies, so in practice, few applications make use of them. > I'm particularly interested in knowing what our fantastic i18n team > thinks about this problem. Is it a real problem for you or am I on > crack? Any volunteer to set up the module? It is a real problem. I've lost track of how many times I have manually copied the unofficial Swedish translation of the "This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms..." "This app is GPL"-style declaration blurb into different applications. Even more exciting since different applications format the texts differently (with or without newlines and/or markup, different amount of spacing, etc) and give different addresses to the FSF (the FSF changed address at least once), so the number of variants in use is enormous... A "do it once, do it right" convenience API for developers to use for this would be a big plus, for both developers and translators. Christian From sri@aracnet.com Mon Jun 19 15:04:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 429B43B00DB for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27155-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [216.99.193.114]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F076F3B01DA for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onyx.spiritone.com (onyx.spiritone.com [127.0.0.1]) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5JJ3HTw003291; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:17 -0700 Received: (from sri@localhost) by onyx.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k5JJ3GPQ003289; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:03:16 -0700 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Plugins and GNOME Message-ID: <20060619190316.GI7996@aracnet.com> References: <448F1F93.5090909@sun.com> <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449322D2.8060702@sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.563 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.563 X-Spam-Level: Cc: thomas@apestaart.org, GNOME Desktop X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:04:41 -0000 On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 04:29:54PM -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Personally I suspect this will mean that Sun will take a "wait-and-see" > attitude with the forthcoming WMA/WMV plugins and allow end-users to > purchases the plugins directly from Fluendo if they want them rather > than bundling them and paying the high cost of licensing. Especially > if that's what the other GNOME distros are planning to do. Though I > don't really know, and I know the decision hasn't yet been made > yet by the management at Sun. But I'm sure it will help them make > a decision if they have a feeling for what other distros are doing. My advice to you is to sit with the other distributions and figure out how to do it from a "GNU/Linux platform" perspective. You can't be the only company who wants to have proprietary format work "out of the box" I don't know if there is a "distro summit" but that would be the first place I would hit to start pushing for this kind of thing. But doing it from the GNOME project perspective doesn't seem very likely. So it's exactly what you're planning to do now, but it would be the distributions not the GNOME project. True it complicates the task, but if distributors want to grow their share of the desktop market they'll probably want to opt into your idea. Besides, it's a great way to get some good press by leading. :-) sri From gnome@nextreality.net Mon Jun 19 22:12:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85613B036C for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17303-05 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1B93B00C4 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id B3CAB35904; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:11:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0F8F35901; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:11:39 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:11:48 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fernando Herrera Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.576 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.023, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.576 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gustavo Carneiro , GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:12:35 -0000 Fernando Herrera wrote: > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Any security implications there? -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From behdad.esfahbod@gmail.com Mon Jun 19 23:40:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57FC63B0E8D for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20798-03 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481263B0E65 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so1088126wra for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.112.1 with SMTP id k1mr6865222wrc; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.190.5? ( [72.136.156.47]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 64sm4643160wra.2006.06.19.20.39.51; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Behdad Esfahbod To: Christian Rose In-Reply-To: <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <97da516f0606190931l3513ead8q5d26ec5a9e479e4c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:39:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1150774790.14758.3.camel@home> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 (2.6.1-1.fc5.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: Behdad Esfahbod X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:40:43 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 12:31 -0400, Christian Rose wrote: > On 6/19/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > > > What about storing the most important open source licenses in a unique > > repository in order to minimize string duplication and translators work? > > I'm thinking to a special package like the one containing all the > > languages name (the iso_639 module). > > I would prefer if such functionality could be added to GTK+, at least > for the short License declarations (like "This program is free > software; you can redistribute it and/or > modify it under the terms..."), for the following reasons: I replied to this thread, but seems like it didn't make it through the list. I've been working on exactly what you suggest in this bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336225 A couple of technical questions remain open, but you get the idea. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" From james.henstridge@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 03:07:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1303B0ECF for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31382-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hu-out-0102.google.com (hu-out-0102.google.com [72.14.214.195]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C833B0EFC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hu-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 24so655028hud for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.8.15 with SMTP id 15mr9925328wxh; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.60.15 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:58:48 +0800 From: "James Henstridge" Sender: james.henstridge@gmail.com To: "Alan Cox" Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way In-Reply-To: <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1150721489.2871.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d5d09b8fe4015615 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.042 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.042 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, Paolo Maggi X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:07:10 -0000 On 19/06/06, Alan Cox wrote: > Ar Llu, 2006-06-19 am 18:39 +0800, ysgrifennodd James Henstridge: > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > > be presented as such to the user. > > True, but it is also true that in many jurisdictions a license in a > foreign language will not find much favour. > > The license serves several purposes and precise legal defence of the > code (within the limits of that jurisdiction) is one, in some ways, less > important property. > > The GPL also tells users about their freedom and about their rights. > Encoding the rights of people in a foreign language so they cannot > exercise them is a fine tradition, normally exercised by invaders, > oppressors and other bodies not in the tradition of freedom. > > Translations really should include a translation of the license text > where there is a standardised and checked one, but need to state that > the American English version is the authorative document for legal > purposes and include that too where the license text would be printed. > > Only by doing that do you tell people what "Free Software" means and > what rights you have given them. Those are good points, and it sounds like a good idea to show an unofficial translation along with the real license. But it needs to be clear that if the translation and the english text differ that the english text be considered authorative. This is particularly important if the translated text is displayed when the user asks the app what its license is. James. From paolo.maggi@polito.it Tue Jun 20 04:21:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA53E3B0306; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02498-06; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from polito.it (anacreon.polito.it [130.192.3.82]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F463B0008; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's FindAttachments (free) Received: from [82.105.171.149] (account d003505@polito.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by anacreon.polito.it (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTPSA id 39199418; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:44 +0200 Subject: Re: Fixing bug #330868 in a smart way From: Paolo Maggi To: James Henstridge In-Reply-To: References: <1150701061.5484.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:19:40 +0200 Message-Id: <1150791580.5512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.44 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.44 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome i18n , desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:21:22 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 18:39 +0800, James Henstridge wrote: > On 19/06/06, Paolo Maggi wrote: > > Hi, > > I was giving a look to bug #330868 (Adding "License" button and dialog > > to About dialog). It seems to me we are duplicating the same long > > strings (mostly the GPL license) in most applications marking them for > > translation in order to add a "License" button to the about dialog. > > If you intend to present localised license text, please provide a way > to turn it off (and probably turn it off by default ...). > > Translations can introduce ambiguities or change the meaning of a > text, which is not acceptable in the case of a legal document. My > agreement to license my code under the GPL does not imply my agreement > to license it under a random translation of the GPL, so it shouldn't > be presented as such to the user. I don't want to show in the License dialog the entire license text but only the good old "This program is free software... [snip]....You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program..." snippet. I agree with you translations of license text could be problematic. But I don't think this is the case since the text only says which is the license and where to find it. Ciao, Paolo From gjc@inescporto.pt Tue Jun 20 07:09:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183533B05ED for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10580-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from animal.inescn.pt (correio.inescn.pt [194.117.24.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55F93B0450 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/7) with ESMTP id k5KB8Ngq012815; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:23 +0100 (WEST) Received: from pong.inescporto.pt (pong.inescn.pt [194.117.26.74]) by animal.inescn.pt (8.13.6/8.13.6/5) with ESMTP id k5KB88pn012723; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:08 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pong.inescporto.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B2AAEB66; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:04:51 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: Crash reports from GNOME bindings From: Gustavo Carneiro To: Brent Smith In-Reply-To: <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> References: <58d389c20606180748h4f76f97cy549e9e5ed69f7037@mail.gmail.com> <1150646453.10854.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <58d389c20606181335l418e4045r152a9aa6b3c73ce5@mail.gmail.com> <44975964.8010401@nextreality.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INESC Porto Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:08:06 +0200 Message-Id: <1150801686.6052.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at inescporto.pt X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.427 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.427 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Fernando Herrera , GNOME Desktop Hackers X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:09:25 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 20:11 -0600, Brent Smith wrote: > Fernando Herrera wrote: > > On 6/18/06, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: > >> This sounds like a very good idea. But could you give more details? > >> What does the --include option accept? A string, file name, ...? I > >> rather pass information through a pipe, really, anything else is bound > >> to reach either a cmdline length limit, or force you to create a > >> temporary file (if done wrong we'll be seeing those security fixes due > >> to bad tmpfile handling in a few months). > > > > --include points to a filename including the trace. You have also a > > --kill command (not working yet) to get your application killed > > by bug-buddy after the bug report. > > > > I guess that getting a trace in python on mono is not as expensive as > > the gdb thing, so there would not be a big delay after the crash and > > the bug-buddy interface coming up. But if we have a big delay we could > > use instead a named pipe to feed the trace over it, so the bindings > > can call bug-buddy inmidiately and then getting/feeding the trace > > while bug-buddy shows the progress bar. > > > > What if bug-buddy accepted input from stdin with "--include -"? Then > the caller could use g_spawn_async_with_pipes(). Sounds good. > > Any security implications there? None that I can see. -- Gustavo Carneiro INESC Porto From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 11:06:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298EF3B0135 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21825-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.239]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923863B00E9 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so1191720wra for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.136.11 with SMTP id j11mr644636wrd; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:06:07 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: About Unix Power for Gnome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: d7d7ccabfc274142 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:06:50 -0000 Hi all, I'm brand new here so first of all I'll present myself. My name is Christian, I'm from italy (really near Venice) and I've finished university (computer science) last October, of course I'm a free software user and enthusiast (actually using Debian on my desktop and Ubuntu on my notebook, both with Gnome as desktop environment). For my master thesis I've done a work that probably fit quite well with the Unix Power for Gnome problem raised by Rodrigo Moya about one year ago (http://blogs.gnome.org/view/rodrigo/2005/08/19/0). Last week I've published the project born from my thesis on sourceforge at http://sflux.sourceforge.net The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application. What I've thought is a way to describe a computer system (documents, applications and operations) using Semantic Web technologies (RDF/OWL/Sparql) so that S-Flux (the application I've done) can understand what operations can be done on a particular document(s) using the applications installed on the system, create a pipeline of operations and actually perform them. On the site you'll find a couple of screencast too, 'cause I know my english is not so good so seeing is better than reading :-) The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about it. Thanks a lot for the attention, ciao! Christian. From paolo.bacchilega@libero.it Tue Jun 20 12:45:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39F33B01C9; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29388-10; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp7.libero.it (smtp7.libero.it [193.70.192.90]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8D93B0EA1; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (172.16.1.8) by smtp7.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 4464C609038C90BE; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:44:55 +0200 Received: from smtp0.libero.it ([172.16.1.204]) by localhost (asav9.libero.it [193.70.192.87]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20713-03; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:44:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [151.53.96.255] (unknown [151.53.96.255]) by smtp0.libero.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FAAD3355E9; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:00 +0200 (MEST) Subject: file-roller branched From: Paolo Bacchilega To: Desktop Devel , GNOME Documentation , GNOME I18N List Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:27:45 +0200 Message-Id: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned: with antispam and antivirus automated system at libero.it X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.691 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708] X-Spam-Score: -0.691 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:45:03 -0000 Hi, the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. Regards, Paolo. From harmon@ksu.edu Tue Jun 20 12:49:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B223B0E2A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29748-09; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.cc.ksu.edu (smtp2.cc.ksu.edu [129.130.7.16]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52133B05F8; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [129.130.11.189] (dhcp19.user.cis.ksu.edu [129.130.11.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp2.cc.ksu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5KGnCK5017430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:49:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:50:20 -0500 From: "Scott J. Harmon" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060601) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paolo Bacchilega Subject: Re: file-roller branched References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1551/Tue Jun 20 08:37:21 2006 on virusfilter2.cc.ksu.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , GNOME Documentation , Desktop Devel X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:49:17 -0000 Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > Hi, > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture changing bugs... > Regards, > Paolo. > Thanks, Scott. From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 12:53:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C653B0CE7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30222-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCEE33B0F2A for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so390349wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.130.3 with SMTP id c3mr10723588wxd; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:53:35 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Scott J. Harmon" Subject: Re: file-roller branched In-Reply-To: <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , Desktop Devel , GNOME Documentation X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:53:44 -0000 On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > Hi, > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > changing bugs... Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get freeze break approval) ;-) From newren@gmail.com Tue Jun 20 13:36:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513113B00B7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00401-02 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.200]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F333B016D for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i30so396333wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.78.15 with SMTP id a15mr8688279wxb; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:35:47 -0600 From: "Elijah Newren" To: "Elijah Newren" , "Gnome Desktop Development List" Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs In-Reply-To: <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:36:21 -0000 On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > management process, cf. signature. > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: Problems which don't have patches: ----------------------------------- evolution-data-server 324546 e-d-s doesn't work with mozilla 1.8 or firefox 1.5; epiphany & yelp don't work with older mozilla. We don't want to depend on both (There is a patch but claims nss has to be disabled for e-d-s for it to work) Problems with patches: ----------------------------------- gnome-system-tools N/A requires system-tools-backends which require perl bindings to DBus; Carlos said he'd make it optional here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2006-June/msg00007.html (Frederic Peters has a patch for this) evolution-data-server 344790 won't find mozilla libraries, causes build breakage in other apps like bug-buddy gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h gnome-mag 344295 checked-in file automatically generated/modified deskbar-applet 345011 type -> crash (lone non-build issue in this list) From murrayc@murrayc.com Tue Jun 20 14:28:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DA53B0188 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04324-10 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarthymail-a4.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-98.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.98]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082073B0499 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noname (p5497DB9C.dip.t-dialin.net [84.151.219.156]) by swarthymail-a4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A788129A8A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs From: Murray Cumming To: Elijah Newren In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:28:20 +0200 Message-Id: <1150828100.6261.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.482 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.117, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.482 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:28:27 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 11:35 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: > > Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release > > management process, cf. signature. > > > "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be > > like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: For really simple things, I think the release-team should just go ahead and fix it, and retarball where necessary, if you can't get a maintainer to do it. (Please, would the release team finally just go ahead and release a libglade 2.6.0 tarball?) -- Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From gnome@nextreality.net Tue Jun 20 22:39:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F893B0591 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00452-03 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brentsmith.name (unknown [64.62.195.122]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE0F3B058E for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by brentsmith.name (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 6350235904; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.176.37.213]) by brentsmith.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E8E35901; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4498B158.8020609@nextreality.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:39:20 -0600 From: Brent Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Elijah Newren Subject: Re: Buildability of tarballs and cvs References: <51419b2c0606161626l2acd132bp37958ea86bcac4a0@mail.gmail.com> <20060618101402.GC19478@waugh.id.au> <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606201035v70a0decbs3a04050df164709e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.94.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Gnome Desktop Development List X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:39:10 -0000 Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/18/06, Jeff Waugh wrote: >> Yes - shipping build fix patches is a *massive* regression in the release >> management process, cf. signature. > >> "Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be >> like police brutality." - Maciej Stachowiak > > Well, we'll have to switch back to police brutality then. :-) Time > for some beatings...the following issues are still relevant AFAICT: > > [snip] > gnopernicus 344695 can't find gdkx.h Invoking build sheriff privileges. 2006-06-20 Brent Smith * configure.in: add GTK+ to PKG_CHECK_MODULES so the include path for GTK is specified in the cflags; patch from Elijah Newren, fixes #344695 -- Brent Smith IRC: smitten From alexl@redhat.com Wed Jun 21 03:43:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94583B0AF9; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17803-09; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582E73B0E2A; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hjpZ001040; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:45 -0400 Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [172.16.58.1]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hjGc003626; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:45 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5L7hh2W014630; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:43:44 -0400 Subject: Re: file-roller branched From: Alexander Larsson To: Elijah Newren In-Reply-To: <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> References: <1150820866.11819.10.camel@localhost> <4498274C.1050005@ksu.edu> <51419b2c0606200953x64b2491ep2753b956ad736e78@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:43:43 +0200 Message-Id: <1150875824.16397.66.camel@greebo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: GNOME I18N List , GNOME Documentation , Desktop Devel X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:43:53 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 10:53 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 6/20/06, Scott J. Harmon wrote: > > Paolo Bacchilega wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > the file-roller module has now a gnome-2-14 branch for version 2.14, > > > HEAD will be used to develop version 2.16 > > > > > > Plans for 2.16 are: browse bugzilla and fix bugs. > > > > > > > Bug fixing can be done without branching unless these are architecture > > changing bugs... > > Not quite -- bug fixing also can't be done on the branch if they are > bugs which would require modifying translatable strings or the UI or > would need some new feature to fix... (unless, of course, you get > freeze break approval) ;-) I'm slightly annoyed at this listing of rules for when you need to branch. There is also the fact that 2.14 is *stable* and fixing bugs can destabilize it as much as adding features can. If you're unsure of the stability of bugfixes its very nice to be able to commit them to a branch immediately and then move the important and stable fixes to the stable branch. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl@redhat.com alla@lysator.liu.se He's a benighted zombie photographer who hides his scarred face behind a mask. She's a wealthy cigar-chomping fairy princess on her way to prison for a murder she didn't commit. They fight crime! From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 04:25:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D4F33B01E2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08370-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.192]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78233B0466 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so307952wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.21.9 with SMTP id 9mr2472173wxu; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:25:38 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 03c2f413749c9331 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:25:41 -0000 Really no opinion at all? Maybe something like: * "Good idea but..." * "I don't think that it can solve any problem" * "I really don't like it" * "What the hell is that thing?!" I'd really like to know your opinions. This is my first open project so any advice is really really useful. Ciao! Christian From danilo@gnome.org Thu Jun 22 04:58:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1E03B057D for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10849-01 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from supa.sekjur.com (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45B53B00C5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (supa.sekjur.com [72.36.154.77]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD61921F8CB; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown by localhost (amavisd-new, unix socket) id client-x7GIvx1J; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.134] (dhcp-87-116-155-154.marshall-bg.customer.sbb.co.yu [87.116.155.154]) by supa.sekjur.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520CD21F8C4; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome From: Danilo Segan To: Christian Barbato In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:58:35 +0200 Message-Id: <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sekjur.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.561 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.561 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:58:42 -0000 Hi Christian, У чет, 22. 06 2006. у 10:25 +0200, Christian Barbato пише: > I'd really like to know your opinions. This is my first open project > so any advice is really really useful. GUADEC[1], the Gnome conference, is starting in two days, and everyone is busy with preparations. :) You'll probably get your share of opinions once everything settles. Of course, you're welcome to join us in Vilanova i la Geltrú in Spain :) Cheers, Danilo [1] http://guadec.org/ From kalle.vahlman@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 05:02:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67BE83B0608 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11213-02 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EAAF3B0583 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so311544wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.1 with SMTP id r1mr2731910wxb; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.77.14 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <177e83dd0606220202qf17541eg57bf321e7a4e44d1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:02:12 +0300 From: "Kalle Vahlman" To: "Christian Barbato" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.163 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.437, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.163 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: zuh@iki.fi List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:02:17 -0000 2006/6/22, Christian Barbato : > Really no opinion at all? I think this is not the right medium for the opinions, this list is about developing GNOME, not talking about new applications (even if they do use/integrate with GNOME). The project itself sounds cool though, even if "The main idea behind it is to facilitate first time computer users hiding to them the concept of application" doesn't sound like what it is really doing. Seems to me it's more like utilizing CLI programs in a GUI, and as such it only applies to stuff like image/sound/video conversions and other predefined non-interactive actions (not, for example, writing a document). -- Kalle Vahlman, zuh@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 05:35:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC663B00C5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13169-02 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.196]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80DBE3B00DE for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so315225wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.116.11 with SMTP id o11mr2771364wxc; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220235g7beadd90y7850879287ba1b68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:35:37 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: "Danilo Segan" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <62b4edf80606220125l4a569f3cs2db5c8318ddaf97f@mail.gmail.com> <1150966715.27703.8.camel@localhost> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 643165173af50fa9 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:35:40 -0000 2006/6/22, Danilo Segan : > Hi Christian, > > > GUADEC[1], the Gnome conference, is starting in two days, and everyone > is busy with preparations. :) > > You'll probably get your share of opinions once everything settles. Of > course, you're welcome to join us in Vilanova i la Geltr=FA in Spain :) Thanks Danilo, it also seems that I've choosed the wrong mailing-list. Paolo Borelli suggested me gnome-love maybe I'll try there. And of course, I'd really LOVE to be there in Spain at GUADEC but I think I'm too late...maybe next year :-) Ciao! Christian From ruben@Lambda1.be Thu Jun 22 08:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49CC53B025B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26471-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from guri.is.scarlet.be (unknown [193.74.71.22]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32573B02A8 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ([62.235.142.250]) by guri.is.scarlet.be with ESMTP id k5MCks925486; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:55 +0200 Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5255F4604E4; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome From: Ruben Vermeersch To: Christian Barbato In-Reply-To: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:46:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 X-DCC-scarlet.be-Metrics: guri 2020; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:47:21 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 17:06 +0200, Christian Barbato wrote: > The project was born as a cross-platform application but I'd love to > deeply integrate it in Gnome. So I'd like to know your opinions about > it. Makes me think of Automator [1], which I've always liked as an idea (but never used it). The UI could use a lot of love though, you might want to check up with the HIG. The usefulness of this app will stand and fall with a good interface concept. Also, it should be made dead simple for apps to register their own hooks. Neat idea, but whether it's successful will be highly dependent on how it's worked out. Kind Regards, Ruben [1] http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/automator/ -- Ruben Vermeersch (rubenv) http://www.Lambda1.be/ From d2004@cosmopod.com Mon Jun 19 20:59:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672EA3B0319 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11366-08 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.cosmopod.com (unknown [216.75.2.64]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907E03B0E91 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.cosmopod.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by 64.cosmopod.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5K0vjXa023707 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:45 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by 64.cosmopod.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5K0vjP1023706 for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: 64.cosmopod.com: d2004 set sender to d2004@cosmopod.com using -f From: d2004@cosmopod.com To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Suggestions from a User Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:44 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.561 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_REAL_NAME=0.961, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -1.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:55:12 -0400 X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:59:59 -0000 Dear GNOME Developers, I am an end-user wishing to supply some feedback/suggestions on improving o= ur=20 Desktop Environment. I have been using GNOME for quite a long time (first= =20 played with it in the 1.4 days and became a serious user with release 2.0/R= ed=20 Hat 8). I am however, just a user and have no development experience. I a= m=20 also new to this list, so if any of my comments or suggestions are ignorant= =20 or have already been discussed, please forgive me in advance. I was prompted to write this after reading the article in the latest GNOME= =20 Journal about end users: http://www.gnomejournal.org/article/46/the-gnome-community-end-users Hopefully, the following will provide some constructive and positive feedba= ck=20 on areas where the system can be improved. As noted, this is from a high-e= nd=20 user's perspective, (not someone particularly interested in keybindings on= =20 Metacity or the like! :-)) Here is my wishlist: 1. Evolution's spam filter is slow and not as efficient as that of=20 Thunderbird. Optimisation work in this area would be greatly appreciated. 2. When importing a single mail file into Evolution, displaying a list of= =20 files to select from shows the file name and the date but not the file size= =2E =20 Displaying the file size would make it easier to determine which file is=20 which, if there are a large number to choose from. 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for= =20 deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash= =20 rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universa= l=20 repository for deleted data. 4. A mail preview so that incoming messages could be seen without switchin= g=20 from other applications to Evolution all of the time would be appreciated. = =20 Outlook 2003 has a function whereby a message momentarily pops-up on screen= ,=20 allowing the user to see the name of the sender and the subject line. Such= a=20 pop-up may be annoying to some users; however, Google Desktop has an even=20 better solution whereby, in "Sidebar" mode, it displays a list of recent=20 mails on screen. Clicking on one allows it to be opened out and previewed.= =20 =46rom there, clicking on it again opens the actual message in Outlook. A= =20 similar mail preview system for GNOME would therefore result in people bein= g=20 able to see new messages without constantly switching between applications= =20 and also enable them to determine if a message was particularly important. 5. One feature I greatly miss from GEdit is a "block select" function to c= ut=20 and past "blocks" of mono-spaced text. KATE and gVIM have this functionali= ty=20 and, even for non-programmers, it is extremely handy. 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the user= is=20 entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only browser I know of=20 with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has it.) 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, the= =20 user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user wants to= =20 download multiple images from a page, without saving the whole thing. IT=20 also seems, from the usability studies I have read online that new and=20 inexperienced users have a reticence towards right-clicking. The various=20 usability studies I have read by Sun and Novell seem to indicate that peopl= e=20 often do not think to right-click to configure the clock or activate applet= s. =20 Therefore, functions that are present in right-click menus only, such as th= at=20 to save images in the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an ent= ry=20 to "Save All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I know th= at=20 it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) because I can run = it=20 successfully under kppp. However, attempting to configure it under GNOME=20 results in failure as it cannot be detected. This is annoying as, for one= =20 reason, it limits me from using a GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. = =20 kppp is a more than adequate workaround but it would be great for GNOME to= =20 also support these. I realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to=20 broadband but in my (first-world) country there are still many home users=20 with dial-up only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. 9. Also related to this, it is difficult to locate hardware configuration= =20 data under GNOME, such as ports and interrupts. KDE have a centralised=20 hardware browser that provides detailed system information for those seekin= g=20 it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather than= =20 later. 10. A font management system. I did some research and found a short=20 discussion here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2006-March/msg00203.html Indeed, lacking something even the equivalent of the Mac Suitcase is an=20 impediment. =20 11. As that same message notes, DTP is a hole on Linux at the moment. Whi= lst=20 there are a few good applications, such as Scribus and KreetingKard, to=20 appeal to two levels of developer, there are no GTK-based equivalents to=20 promote healthy competition. Such applications are rarely included on=20 distributions. Even Inkscape and Bluefish are often relegated to "extras"=20 repositories. It would be great if more work on consumer level DTP=20 applications could be undertaken. This does not necessarily mean tools=20 equivalent to the likes of Quark and Adobe but smaller programs such as tho= se=20 produced by Serif and Printshop. I realise this would take much time and=20 many resources though. Also, promotion of the likes of Inkscape so that they are more visible to=20 users and included in the "Core" disks of distributions like Fedora would=20 raise the profile of such projects. Perhaps you could lobby the Fedora=20 people? 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the spatial= =20 mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the need for a file= =20 MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming, printing lists of=20 directory structures and so on. Obviously such is readily done from within= =20 the Shell but it would be great if a GNOME tool could do the same. 13. For those managing small networks, it would be great to have=20 the /etc/MOTD file (Message of the Day) appear each time users log in. For= =20 example, if I had a small school network, there may be a message I would li= ke=20 the users to see. A small dialogue box displaying this file on login would= =20 be handy. Obviously, an ability to disable it would be needed and it shoul= d=20 not be activated by default or it would be intrusive to those people with=20 single-user systems. 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like the=20 concept of circular menus mentioned here: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html It seems likely that, by reducing mouse movements, they would improve syste= m=20 ergonomics. Another advantage would be that, in their uniqueness, they wou= ld=20 help to differentiate GNOME from the alternative desktops. Such uniqueness= =20 is always positive marketing, which is why I rankle when I read of certain= =20 parties wanting to make GNOME more similar to Windows. Whilst it may help= =20 users make a transition from WIndows, it does not help give them an incenti= ve=20 to move. GNOME needs to be unique and the care to detail and usability is= =20 part of what has already attracted many people (myself included.) By=20 combining thoughtful ergonomics with eye-catching (but non-distracting)=20 visual ideas, this should help gain an even greater user base. 15. My final request is a purely personal indulgence. It would be great t= o=20 have a GNOME chess game. With the Gnuchess engine available, I am surprise= d=20 no one has included a GTK-based GNOME game due to this pasttime's enduring= =20 popularity, so I would like to lobby for this! That is the sum of my input. I hope that at least some of my ideas are=20 helpful or generate constructive discussion. I look forward to your=20 feedback. I am a newbie here, so do not be too cruel! I realise that soe = of=20 these proposals would be huge work but they are simply ideas of things I=20 would like to see. Maybe next year, maybe in Topaz, maybe even beyond that= =2E =20 There is a lot of work but the GNOME community has already come a long way.= =20 Best wishes to everyone, Danni From marinaioditerra@gmail.com Thu Jun 22 09:24:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 855FD3B041B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30123-10 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.204]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DEE3B00B8 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id t5so351325wxc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.1 with SMTP id r1mr3101621wxb; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.20.18 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <62b4edf80606220624g442a5c35u1392f8a9bff8f25d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:24:57 +0200 From: "Christian Barbato" Sender: marinaioditerra@gmail.com To: "Ruben Vermeersch" Subject: Re: About Unix Power for Gnome In-Reply-To: <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <62b4edf80606200806p28a1a7f9x98800df13d59f3fb@mail.gmail.com> <1150980413.19905.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5e57a2bb7844bd75 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:24:59 -0000 2006/6/22, Ruben Vermeersch : > > Makes me think of Automator [1], which I've always liked as an idea (but > never used it). Oh yes. Automator was announced when I was in the middle of my project. I felt so bad, thinking that I arrived late and someone else developed my idea. But then, when Automator was released, I've looked well at it and tried it too. There are many differences between SFlux and Automator, but probably the one that I care more about is that Automator don't hide the other applications on the system and don't filter out the proposed operations on the basis of the input document(s) (it can be seen as a list of all the operations of all the applications, SFlux actually filter them). > > The UI could use a lot of love though, you might want to check up with > the HIG. The usefulness of this app will stand and fall with a good > interface concept. Bingo! The actual UI is really bad and I have to dramatically improve it. > > Also, it should be made dead simple for apps to register their own > hooks. Bingo again! Thanks a lot for your opinions. Christian. From uws@uwsworld.xs4all.nl Thu Jun 22 10:05:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9163B07F7 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00570-08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uwsworld.xs4all.nl (uwsworld.xs4all.nl [194.109.237.238]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E8A3B042E for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uws by uwsworld.xs4all.nl with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1FtPoE-0000V5-00; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200 From: Wouter Bolsterlee To: d2004@cosmopod.com Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User Message-ID: <20060622140525.GA1605@uwsworld.xs4all.nl> Mail-Followup-To: d2004@cosmopod.com, desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> X-message-flag: Guvf zrffntr qbrf abg pbagnva rapelcgrq zrffntrf. X-PGP: key 0x250A63EB, fingerprint 83C5 C205 47AD 539D A4F0 60BF 3FB4 134E 250A 63EB X-Base: All your base are belong to uws User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040907i Sender: Wouter Bolsterlee X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:05:32 -0000 --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First of all, thanks for your input! P=C3=A5 Mon, Jun 19, 2006 at 05:57:44PM -0700, d2004@cosmopod.com skrev: > 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the us= er is=20 > entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only browser I know of= =20 > with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has it.) This feature is being worked on. You can search bugzilla for the bug report and add yourself to the Cc field to track progress. > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, th= e=20 > user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user wants = to=20 > download multiple images from a page, without saving the whole thing. IT= =20 > also seems, from the usability studies I have read online that new and=20 > inexperienced users have a reticence towards right-clicking. The various= =20 > usability studies I have read by Sun and Novell seem to indicate that peo= ple=20 > often do not think to right-click to configure the clock or activate appl= ets. =20 > Therefore, functions that are present in right-click menus only, such as = that=20 > to save images in the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an e= ntry=20 > to "Save All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. I think not many people will use this feature. Therefore it's unlikely that it will be implemented. A tip: just save the page to disk. All related files such as images and stylesheets will be saved to disk as well. > 9. Also related to this, it is difficult to locate hardware configuratio= n=20 > data under GNOME, such as ports and interrupts. KDE have a centralised= =20 > hardware browser that provides detailed system information for those seek= ing=20 > it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather tha= n=20 > later. Have you tried hal-device-manager? mvrgr, Wouter --=20 :wq mail uws@xs4all.nl web http://uwstopia.nl tell myself that i'm not ready yet :: i want to live -- heather nova --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEmqOlP7QTTiUKY+sRAvBsAJ9a45WezIlO/V1hu6kiJ+TwULIJIgCgjOfG vityiebrWNVfZMLvyKzGC7I= =EQ4+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv-- From john.williams.lists@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 01:07:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F683B0670 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15165-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90CE3B06B8 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 34so700008nzf for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.134.15 with SMTP id h15mr3169537nzd; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?202.150.121.117? ( [202.150.121.117]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 6sm3937185nzn.2006.06.22.22.05.57; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User From: John Williams To: d2004@cosmopod.com In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:09:14 +1200 Message-Id: <1151039354.9177.9.camel@office.falcon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 (2.6.2-1.fc5.5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.294 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.229, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.294 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 05:07:02 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 17:57 -0700, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I know that > it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) because I can run it > successfully under kppp. However, attempting to configure it under GNOME > results in failure as it cannot be detected. This is annoying as, for one > reason, it limits me from using a GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. > kppp is a more than adequate workaround but it would be great for GNOME to > also support these. I realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to > broadband but in my (first-world) country there are still many home users > with dial-up only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. Hi Danni, and thanks for your mail. At the risk of adding a trivial "me too" message, I would like to amplify your point above. I believe that our problem (I have a similar one) is part of a bigger picture for GNOME. It is this: Software developers, in general, appear to have (and develop on) higher-end systems than those of the average user. I am referring here in particular to CPU speed, RAM and network access speed. One of the many consequences of this is that GNOME networking applications and associated infrastructure are very, very poor at accommodating users with modems, and relatedly, with slow (57k, say) access to the Internet. Not only is it very hard (I have never managed to do it) to set up GNOME's modem tool (I have to use the Network Configuration tool, and log in as root as a consequence), once you are connected many applications have no idea how do deal with: (a) slow connection speeds; and (b) intermittent connectivity Issues related to this can be seen most clearly in Evolution, but also in yumex. In fact, I am about ready to give up on Evolution totally after having used it ever since its first release. I kept on hoping that it would improve, but years down the track it appears that due to the point I raise above (developers not walking in the shoes of users) it will never happen. Sigh. After all that, I would like to say a huge THANKS to all the GNOME developers for all the really, really good stuff that the GNOME community has produced over the years. GNOME is really cool. But let's face it: it's not ready for the (non-corporate, general user) desktop yet. From psankar@novell.com Fri Jun 23 02:04:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BB53B0262 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17962-01 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sinclair.provo.novell.com (sinclair.provo.novell.com [137.65.81.169]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E763B01D2 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from INET-PRV-MTA by sinclair.provo.novell.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:03:57 -0600 Message-Id: <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:03:49 -0600 From: "P Sankar" To: Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User References: <449A5BCF0200004800012AAE@sinclair.provo.novell.com> <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> In-Reply-To: <449B4C05020000E70000EFC4@sinclair.provo.novell.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.479 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2] X-Spam-Score: -2.479 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:04:04 -0000 Hi, Thanks a lot for your suggestions. On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 12:58 +0000, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > 1. Evolution's spam filter is slow and not as efficient as that of > Thunderbird. Optimisation work in this area would be greatly appreciated. You need to train the spam filter for a few days to make it work effectively. This will help to develop the spam-detection-knowledge. There has been a discussion going on about letting the user choose SpamAssasin or Bogofilter. You can peek at the discussion on http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-hackers/2006-May/msg00062.html > 2. When importing a single mail file into Evolution, displaying a list of > files to select from shows the file name and the date but not the file size. > Displaying the file size would make it easier to determine which file is > which, if there are a large number to choose from. The file-open dialog used in Evolution is the gnome-wide GtkFileChooser. I believe that people hacking on it would have noted this discussion and will provide the ability to customize the columns in the dialog soon. > > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for > deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash > rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universal > repository for deleted data. I am not sure if this will be useful. If you have a remote account (IMAP/Exchange/GW) we are left with no choice other than keeping the deleted items in the server, so that they will be accesible everywhere. So they need to be on the Trash-folder on the accounts. And it will be confusing to have different Trash folder behaviors for local and remote Trash folders. > > 4. A mail preview so that incoming messages could be seen without switching > from other applications to Evolution all of the time would be appreciated. > Outlook 2003 has a function whereby a message momentarily pops-up on screen, > allowing the user to see the name of the sender and the subject line. Such a > pop-up may be annoying to some users; however, Google Desktop has an even > better solution whereby, in "Sidebar" mode, it displays a list of recent > mails on screen. Clicking on one allows it to be opened out and previewed. > >From there, clicking on it again opens the actual message in Outlook. A > similar mail preview system for GNOME would therefore result in people being > able to see new messages without constantly switching between applications > and also enable them to determine if a message was particularly important. *NOD* There needs to be a better new mail notification mechanism than the current BEEP or run-custom-program. This is already in the task list for the Evolution 2.8 release. (http://www.go-evolution.org/Mailer-2.8) Allowing the user to open/delete new mails without coming to the Evolution window. In the meanwhile you can try http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/garnome/geektoys/mail-notification/files/?only_with_tag=gnome-2-14 Your distro might ship with a new mail notification program already. You can ask for more details in your distro's forum. Sankar From mpt@myrealbox.com Sat Jun 24 03:22:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1243B0223 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29957-04 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leucothea.redline.site5.com (leucothea.redline.site5.com [216.118.97.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276F93B0360 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 203-173-178-53.bliink.ihug.co.nz ([203.173.178.53] helo=[10.1.1.5]) by leucothea.redline.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fu2T6-0006IN-Og; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:22:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Message-Id: <5f4833cdbee1bce1686a79531ed478a0@myrealbox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) From: Matthew Paul Thomas Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:22:21 +1200 To: GNOME Desktop Developers Mailing List X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV. X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - leucothea.redline.site5.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - myrealbox.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.412 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_KP=0.077] X-Spam-Score: -2.412 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:22:23 -0000 Hi Danni On Jun 20, 2006, at 12:57 PM, d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > ... > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more=20 > logical for deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and=20= > go to system trash rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make=20= > system trash a universal repository for deleted data. That would be nifty, but the mail-specific Trash would still be useful=20= as a way of viewing only the deleted items that were e-mail messages. > ... > 6. A spell checker would be much appreciated in Epiphany for when the=20= > user is entering data into online forms. Konqueror is the only=20 > browser I know of with this functionality (not sure if Safari also has=20= > it.) > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images,=20= > the user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user=20= > wants to download multiple images from a page, without saving the=20 > whole thing. IT also seems, from the usability studies I have read=20 > online that new and inexperienced users have a reticence towards=20 > right-clicking. The various usability studies I have read by Sun and=20= > Novell seem to indicate that people often do not think to right-click=20= > to configure the clock or activate applets. Therefore, functions that=20= > are present in right-click menus only, such as that to save images in=20= > the browser, may not be such a good idea. Perhaps an entry to "Save=20= > All Images On Page" under the file menu, would be appropriate. Or you could drag the image from the Web page onto your desktop or into=20= a folder, which works right now. (Granted, it doesn't work for images=20 that are inside links. But there are less obtrusive ways saving could=20 be provided for those too -- for example, the "Save As=85" button in the=20= Media tab of Firefox's Page Info window.) > 8. My biggest grief with GNOME relates to my dial-up USB modem. I=20 > know that it is supported under my current system (Fedora Core 5) =20 > because I can run it successfully under kppp. However, attempting to=20= > configure it under GNOME results in failure as it cannot be detected. =20= > This is annoying as, for one reason, it limits me from using a=20 > GNOME-only distribution such as Ubuntu. kppp is a more than adequate=20= > workaround but it would be great for GNOME to also support these. I=20= > realise that dial-up is slowing giving way to broadband but in my=20 > (first-world) country there are still many home users with dial-up=20 > only. We are also cutting ourselves off from the third world. Agreed -- the lack of easy-to-use dialup configuration makes Gnome much=20= less interesting for 22% of people online in the USA, 46% in China, 69%=20= in Australia, 70% in New Zealand, about 70% in India, and so on. > ... > 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the=20 > spatial mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the=20 > need for a file MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming,=20= > printing lists of directory structures and so on. > ... I can't think of any reason for these features not to be in Nautilus.=20 (You can already rename single items, just not in the way Windows and=20 Mac OS let you do it.) > ... > 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like=20= > the concept of circular menus mentioned here: > > http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html > ... =46rom what I've seen, circular menus don't scale to more than about 12=20= items, especially if they contain text. Cheers --=20 Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/= From gnome-desktop-devel-list@m.gmane.org Sat Jun 24 10:52:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C43C3B07F1 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20276-09 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355323B0402 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fu9Uv-0005Qs-Pm for desktop-devel-list@gnome.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 Received: from sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.223.202]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 Received: from sdl.web by sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:52:33 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org From: Leon Subject: install applet server file without root Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:52:26 +0100 Lines: 14 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAEAAAAASCAMAAADc8SgQAAAAwFBMVEUCBQEJDAgTFRIaHBof IB4jJCIrLCotLywyNDE3OTY8Pjs/QD5FRkRJS0hRU1BWV1VbXVpiZGFnaWZrbWptb2xvcW52eHV5 enh+gH2Bg4CHiYaLjYqNj4yRk5CXmZaanJmdn5ygop+mqKWqrKmsrqutr6yxs7CztbK4ure7vbq/ wb7DxcLHycbJy8jNz8vQ0s/T1dLW2NXc3tvf4d7h5ODl5+Po6ufr7enu8O3x8/Dz9fL1+PT4+vf6 /Pn7/fr+//wGuxWtAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAALEwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH1gIaAyMw1+FInQAAAXxJ REFUOMulk+tygjAQhalFWodYvIwyiNUKA95QVLwQhLPv/1ZNAKWX8Yd6ZsLAZvdL9iQo9KSUx0v3 0wV/BjDSzZY6exxw0BJgrqaPApBtQeDK6eEdAGJ4DQhAZjFmWVZf798LmTUi6QGgmQCysHtfeWa1 OXITj8pMYrh9Vz03vmQbEuArMeETSZBPpIdKvMg9B2faL2NKgl3R/zZIuFZnjDW5bKGnrVfmROLk 5LhWqVmEbEcfu8u3+XD14YrvjeEsWRrlyj3QDN/To6u96VVJmkdO40AJAVU4ZQqfInWDhcpRSABi ZQ4MQYusPJ9KRSDhtgEclROBjQhGK8+hfMgdeMICSpGaRf6iU8kuiUzwnXdQ/BJleJ38/pnQ0yUJ g8JDbOxKbnlgtZDQ7Ql/GGzUxZnR7ngBxEHdCMP1rKOD/rVQhlY18aL5BMuczmncTmJnkF4AO9/3 PN9z3e3tW3uciodzFm58LcUCwWgS4drC39Vu3XsqbMu7/Zn8DYna+irHnqnQAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.0 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+0hFUCRQH6hd8ZYC5JEjXZlI6H8= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.593 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.593 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:52:39 -0000 Dear all, I am learning programming applets for gnome but it seems it requires root privilege to install and test applets. Seanni[1] has met the same issue but seems no one can answer. My question is how can a user (no root) install a .server file. Thank you all. Footnotes: [1] http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10650 -- Leon From reinouts@gnome.org Sat Jun 24 18:37:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E423B0094; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05211-10; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psmtp02.wxs.nl (psmtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.247.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57AC3B00DB; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from reinout.rotterdam-cs.com (ip5656924e.speed.planet.nl [86.86.146.78]) by psmtp02.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.02 (built Oct 21 2004)) with SMTP id <0J1D00E2UYSL68@psmtp02.wxs.nl>; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:36:28 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:39:02 +0200 From: Reinout van Schouwen Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, epiphany-list@gnome.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2 (This is not a psychotic episode. It's a cleansing moment of clarity.) References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> <20060622140525.GA1605@uwsworld.xs4all.nl> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:37:26 -0000 cc: epiphany-list On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:05:26 +0200, Wouter Bolsterlee wrote: >> 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, >> the user must right-click on them and save. This is tiresome if a user > > I think not many people will use this feature. Therefore it's unlikely > that it will be implemented. To the contrary: someone has made a preliminary implementation of an Image Toolbar extension that shows a Save button when mousing over any image. However it was quite buggy and unfinished, so it now lingers somewhere in bugzilla... regards, -- Reinout van Schouwen From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 00:09:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A193B02E4 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15859-06 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.207]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E163B0091 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so1472997nzh for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.47.19 with SMTP id u19mr4006827qbu; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:08:17 +0100 From: Who To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Nautilus Sidebar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.554 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.554 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 04:09:10 -0000 Hello List, A quick introduction before my main email: I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list about 5 months now... So, take my suggestions in the light of that description. Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is relevant to what the user is doing. See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in Nautilus that can display results from different engines. Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have any intentions to integrate into Nautilus I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related to this. Thanks in advance Who From glennji@gmail.com Sun Jun 25 08:18:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4B13B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12998-10 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.224]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15EC23B008C for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i12so909903wra for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.80.13 with SMTP id d13mr6295680wrb; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.99.17 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:17:45 +0100 From: "Glenn J. Mason" To: Who Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257" References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: glenn@glennji.com List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:18:41 -0000 ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type > specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The > idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is > relevant to what the user is doing. > > Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project > Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have > any intentions to integrate into Nautilus > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is the end of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. Was it just too much overhead on the system or something? Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]? It's a way to offer a similar thing in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions sidebar too? [1] http://www.grumz.net/index.php?q=taxonomy/term/2/9 -- Glenn J. Mason - "Glennji" Happy hacking! http://glennji.com/ ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type
specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The
idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is
relevant to what the user is doing.

Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project
Dashboard ( www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have
any intentions to integrate into Nautilus

Yeah, what happened to Dashboard?  The last update on the weblog is the end of 2003.  I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets.  Was it just too much overhead on the system or something?

Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]?  It's a way to offer a similar thing in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions sidebar too?

[1] http://www.grumz.net/index.php?q=taxonomy/term/2/9

--
Glenn J. Mason - "Glennji"
Happy hacking!
http://glennji.com/ ------=_Part_10707_26227664.1151237865257-- From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 08:38:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3553B00FE for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13730-08 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89CEE3B00D9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 34so1251591nzf for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.3.9 with SMTP id 9mr4129558qbc; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606250538l3f303826sce8eb515ee2c24fb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:38:06 +0100 From: Who To: glenn@glennji.com Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.569 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.569 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:38:10 -0000 On 6/25/06, Glenn J. Mason wrote: Snip my original message: > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is the end > of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information display", > like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. Was it just too much > overhead on the system or something? I have no 'inside information' but I remember reading that it's development was stalled in order to allow Beagle (which Dashboard will use a lot) to be completed. Beagle search that is cleverly targeted at the files currently selected in Nautilus is exactly the type of thing I was thinking about for the sidebar - providing 'Files edited at a similar time and of the same type as this' and 'Files containing the title of this document' - or even 'GAIM conversations about this' in the sidebar The idea would be that Beagle Search could be one engine for the sidebar - and many other things could be used along side it IF required > Who, have you seen Nautilus Actions[1]? It's a way to offer a similar thing > in the right-click menu, but perhaps there could be a Nautilus Actions > sidebar too? I do use Nautilus actions - but I feel that it is not perfect because * It can only display static menu entries (as far as I know) - no query based items or previews or other things like that. * Having many options makes the menus too large/complicated and makes it harder to get to the other context menu functions * The need to right click makes it less intuitive for new users The link I sent mentioned having a Nautilus Actions engine for the sidebar design I am suggesting/asking about - I think it would be great :) Thanks for the feedback, Who From olafra@gmail.com Sun Jun 25 11:07:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48193B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18625-02 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.205]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7767F3B0097 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s1so1247426nze for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.21.4 with SMTP id y4mr6610751nzi; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.14.57 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:07:05 +0000 From: "Olafur Arason" To: Who Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853" References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.254 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.145, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.254 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:07:38 -0000 ------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more. Olafur Arason On 6/25/06, Who wrote: > > Hello List, > > A quick introduction before my main email: > I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I > write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux > programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am > keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work > and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI > design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list > about 5 months now... > > So, take my suggestions in the light of that description. > > Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type > specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The > idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is > relevant to what the user is doing. > > See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions > > There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding > very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in > Nautilus that can display results from different engines. > > > Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project > Dashboard (www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have > any intentions to integrate into Nautilus > > I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the > feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related > to this. > > Thanks in advance > > Who > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked
countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer
they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single
purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have
and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct
actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more.

Olafur Arason

On 6/25/06, Who <mailforwho@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hello List,

A quick introduction before my main email:
I am a gap-year student in the UK, with a year long job placement. I
write automation software for Windows applications but have no Linux
programming experience beyond compiling other people's code - I am
keen to change this as soon as I am not programming all day at work
and a little bit less busy afterwards. I am very interested in UI
design and use only free software at home. I've been reading the list
about 5 months now...

So, take my suggestions in the light of that description.

Ultimately, I'd like opinions on the idea of adding search, MIME-type
specific actions and preview functionality to Nautilus' Sidebar. The
idea is to present fewer options on screen by only presenting what is
relevant to what the user is doing.

See http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions

There I suggest an implementation that would hopefully require adding
very few extra dependencies to Nautilus by having a 'container' in
Nautilus that can display results from different engines.


Broadly I think this is a similar idea, but not design, to Project
Dashboard ( www.nat.org/dashboard) - though I don't know that they have
any intentions to integrate into Nautilus

I eagerly await any feedback you have relating to the idea itself, the
feasibility of the way I suggested doing it, or anything else related
to this.

Thanks in advance

Who
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------=_Part_19433_10857291.1151248025853-- From horkana@maths.tcd.ie Sun Jun 25 11:13:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298513B00BB for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18789-08 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A3873B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.11] helo=salmon.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 25 Jun 2006 16:13:07 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:13:06 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan To: d2004@cosmopod.com Subject: Re: Suggestions from a User In-Reply-To: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> Message-ID: References: <200606191757.45300.d2004@cosmopod.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.592 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.592 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:13:21 -0000 On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 d2004@cosmopod.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:44 -0700 > From: d2004@cosmopod.com > To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Subject: Suggestions from a User > > Dear GNOME Developers, > > I am an end-user wishing to supply some feedback/suggestions on > improving our Desktop Environment. For future reference it can be quite difficult to address all points of a long list so it might be best trying to stick to one or two points per mail (and I say that as someone who tries to be succint but I usually sending long verbose messages which dont get the best response). > 3. I believe it has been discussed before but it would be more logical for > deleted emails to be treated as higher level objects and go to system trash > rather than a deleted mail folder. This would make system trash a universal > repository for deleted data. If you are using Maildir the each individual message is already a seperate file but other implementations work quite differently. Very interesting idea but I wonder how difficult it might be to implent it. > 5. One feature I greatly miss from GEdit is a "block select" function to cut > and past "blocks" of mono-spaced text. KATE and gVIM have this functionality > and, even for non-programmers, it is extremely handy. > 7. One problem with all browsers, is that, to save individual images, the Historically the two major browser manufacturers had other vested interests, Netscape in particular sold web server software and weren't exactly enthusiastic about tools which made it really easy for users to leech and scape content off the web (took forever before they added "Save Complete Web Page"). I put some effort into learning wget which makes it easier to scrape large batches of files from the internet but there should some graphical download tools out there to help too. I expect Epiphany might be interested in offering the feature you want but the risk might be if this feature ("save images only") didn't clutter things up and confuse users but maybe it would work out nicely. File a request in bugzilla, the Epiphany developers might be happy to add your suggestion (I wonder if it might be possible to create a firefox extension to do the same or if one already exists?) > it. This seems to be another major hoe we need to plug sooner rather than > later. > 11. As that same message notes, DTP is a hole on Linux at the moment. Scribus is pretty good. I would much rather see infrastructure improved so QT and KDE applcations can integrate nicely into a GNOME desktop than anything else. Passepartout is an interesting application and it might be able to carve out a niche for basic publishing but it needs more developers (what project doesn't!). > Whilst there are a few good applications, such as Scribus and > KreetingKard, to appeal to two levels of developer, there are no > GTK-based equivalents to promote healthy competition. I've heard good things about Glabels. http://glabels.sourceforge.net/ > are rarely included on distributions. When more distributions switch to using a DVD (as opposed to CDs) as their primary format things might change and more software might be offered by default. > 12. Whilst Nautilus is a fine file BROWSER(and I greatly like the spatial > mode) I tend to agree with a few people who have cited the need for a file > MANIPULATION TOOL as well, for such tasks as renaming, printing lists of > directory structures and so on. Obviously such is readily done from within > the Shell but it would be great if a GNOME tool could do the same. The following bug report might be of interest: "rename multiple files at once" http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=306489 I wouldn't mind a tool which could take a look at all my downloads and allow me to sort them or set up filters as easily as I can do for incoming mail. A tool which was able to group files with common name patterns (or size, date, time, patterns) and then offer to sort them and put them in subfolders could be quite useful too. (A few years ago I vaguely recall looking at a tidy/cleanup tool which amongst other things would help you clear out empty unused folders but I doubt I'd be able to find it again.) > 13. For those managing small networks, it would be great to have > the /etc/MOTD file (Message of the Day) appear each time users log in. This question has been answered before, I believe they recommended some combination of Zenity and MOTD. > be handy. Obviously, an ability to disable it would be needed and it should > not be activated by default or it would be intrusive to those people with > single-user systems. (I should warn you this kind of thing sounds quite annoying and likely to be ignored by most users even if the intentions behind it are good.) > 14. Without any empirical evidence of improved usability, I do like the > concept of circular menus mentioned here: > http://www.daimi.au.dk/~kamstrup/articles/G3-ideas.html I've tried two drawing applications for windows, Alias Sketch and another very similar program called Artrage both of which make small use of circular menus and it can be quite useful. I wouldn't think it would suitable in most cases, best left to pen driven interfaces or applications which mostly use the mouse. > 15. My final request is a purely personal indulgence. It would be great to > have a GNOME chess game. With the Gnuchess engine available, I am surprised > no one has included a GTK-based GNOME game due to this pasttime's enduring > popularity, so I would like to lobby for this! Many chess games exist already and I believe there are a few GTK chess games if you go out and look for them. You wouldn't believe the work required to maintain Gnome games. > That is the sum of my input. I hope that at least some of my ideas are > helpful or generate constructive discussion. I look forward to your > feedback. I would have replied sooner but your message contained so many small points it took a very long time to respond to them. A few short points is often better, and taking your suggestions directly to the developers (of Nautilus, and Epiphany) is more likely to get relevant responses. > I am a newbie here, so do not be too cruel! I realise that soe of > these proposals would be huge work but they are simply ideas of things I > would like to see. -- Alan From mailforwho@googlemail.com Sun Jun 25 11:48:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B823B008F for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19856-05 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.206]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7903B0079 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so1532917nzh for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.115.18 with SMTP id s18mr5346240qbm; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606250847h690c57bl76f02034f0ba8e03@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:47:24 +0100 From: Who To: "Olafur Arason" Subject: Re: Nautilus Sidebar In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.57 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:48:15 -0000 On 6/25/06, Olafur Arason wrote: > The problem is that this is ends up being just ignored, I have asked > countless windows user whether they use this feature of explorer > they respond that they hadn't noticed it. It is better to have single > purpose applications. That being said it could be useful to have > and optional sidebar thing that had big noticeable and distinct > actions. Intelligence is key here, less is more. > > Olafur Arason > > I think that it failing to be noticed is a problem with the default configuratins, not with the tool itself. Perhaps we can think of some way to make it more discoverable - like a context menu item that says 'view more options in sidebar' when the sidebar isn't shown, does anyone have any other ideas? I fully agree that 'less is more' :) I think we want to provide really relevant actions/files/information. From johan@svedberg.com Sun Jun 25 17:53:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7563A3B01C9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04366-04 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.acc.umu.se (mail.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.156]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5753B00E9 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id B664E5B for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: from suiko.acc.umu.se (suiko.acc.umu.se [130.239.18.162]) by mail.acc.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF174E for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: by suiko.acc.umu.se (Postfix, from userid 24225) id D4793803; Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:53:45 +0200 From: Johan Svedberg To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: install applet server file without root Message-ID: <20060625235209.GA647bd.johan@svedberg.com> Mail-Followup-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at acc.umu.se X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:53:49 -0000 * Jun 24 16:53 Leon : > I am learning programming applets for gnome but it seems it requires > root privilege to install and test applets. Seanni[1] has met the same > issue but seems no one can answer. This is probably not the right place for this kind of questions. Don't know what is though. > My question is how can a user (no root) install a .server file. Thank > you all. You need to set BONOBO_ACTIVATION_PATH=/path/to/bonobo/servers -- Johan Svedberg, johan@svedberg.com, http://johan.svedberg.com/ From joeshaw@novell.com Tue Jun 27 10:10:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCBC3B013F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01576-09 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peabody.ximian.com (peabody.ximian.com [130.57.169.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4E53B00F3 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26455 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2006 14:10:23 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?10.0.11.44?) (joe@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 27 Jun 2006 14:10:23 -0000 Subject: Re: Dashboard (was Nautilus Sidebar) From: Joe Shaw To: glenn@glennji.com In-Reply-To: <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:08:41 -0400 Message-Id: <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.476 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2] X-Spam-Score: -2.476 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:10:56 -0000 Hi, On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 13:17 +0100, Glenn J. Mason wrote: > Yeah, what happened to Dashboard? The last update on the weblog is > the end of 2003. I love the idea of "persistent real time information > display", like Beagle search but fed a stream of cluepackets. I actually just gave a talk about this yesterday at GUADEC. :) Dashboard was somewhat set aside while we developed Beagle. Dashboard is being revived as a Summer of Code project, though. Unfortunately there's not really any code to show yet. > Was it just too much overhead on the system or something? > It may be at some point, but we just didn't have enough applications instrumented at the time for this to be an issue. Joe From mailforwho@googlemail.com Tue Jun 27 11:32:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB943B009F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05536-10 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320263B0075 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f25so1888847pyf for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.37.18 with SMTP id p18mr7316061pyj; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.242.2 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e37b1f70606270831i5dd82a1bhef1c6bd07ac6adee@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:31:51 +0100 From: Who To: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Re: Dashboard (was Nautilus Sidebar) In-Reply-To: <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7e37b1f70606242108x72b7413nfb84ea41643c3e2e@mail.gmail.com> <959ebe500606250517o76d7b241n968193d3a67601ce@mail.gmail.com> <1151417321.3849.12.camel@portage.boston.ximian.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.581 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.581 X-Spam-Level: Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org, glenn@glennji.com X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:32:26 -0000 On 6/27/06, Joe Shaw wrote: > I actually just gave a talk about this yesterday at GUADEC. :) > > Dashboard was somewhat set aside while we developed Beagle. Dashboard > is being revived as a Summer of Code project, though. Unfortunately > there's not really any code to show yet. > Are there any plans to put it in the Nautilus Sidebar, or for anything vaugely similar to the functionality described at http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions ? I'm still interested in hearing whether anyone thinks such an idea is possible, or worth doing :) Who From iaingnome@gmail.com Thu Jun 29 19:30:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276F13B00B5 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14918-06 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7D03B0095 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id z74so24973pyg for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.63.2 with SMTP id q2mr26810pyk; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.45.19 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35fafc140606291630y2f4f73d4nbcd9c0fa649ad3fc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:30:15 +0100 From: "Iain *" To: rah@rahga.com, "Desktop Development List" Subject: [PATCH]In death members of Project Mayhem have a name MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.365 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.365 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: GNOME Desktop Development List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:30:17 -0000 ------=_Part_21681_17027892.1151623815489 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi, My name is iain. I make patches. Here is one. I was playing Tali and noticed that my player is called "Human" by default. 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