Re: WebKitGTK+ as an external dependency

[Andre Klapper <ak-47 gmx net>]

Xan, can you comment on Willie's question?

andre


Am Dienstag, den 14.07.2009, 09:43 -0400 schrieb Willie Walker:
> Just to chime in here - based upon our experiences with Gecko, 
> accessibility support for browsers is no trivial task.  Xan and Joanie 
> have been hammering away at an impressive pace so far.
> 
> Joanie, Xan - what do you think it would take to hit 2.28?  Would more 
> people from the WebKit internals side help?
> 
> Will
> 
> Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > Hi all.
> > 
> > I think it's safe to say that implementing accessibility for something
> > as complex as WebKit is not a trivial task. :-) When I originally looked
> > at WebKit's accessibility a year or so ago, I was really concerned; now
> > I'm excited about it. Already there are things in WebKit which
> > JustWork(tm) and do so with little-to-no change in Orca -- things which
> > have taken (and in some cases continue to take) us much effort to
> > accomplish within Orca's support for Gecko. The work that Xan and others
> > have done has been awesome!
> > 
> > That said....
> > 
> > Below is a list of the currently open bugs and their impact on users. In
> > order for WebKit to be reasonably accessible for users of assistive
> > technologies, I believe that the majority of these bugs need to be
> > addressed. My concern first and foremost is can that be accomplished in
> > time for the GNOME 2.28 release? Beyond that, we don't know if anything
> > else of significance will be discovered while implementing support for
> > WebKit in Orca and other ATs, once these bugs have been addressed.
> > 
> > Therefore, as much as I hate to say this, my recommendation is that we
> > keep working at the pace we are to address all of these issues, but that
> > GNOME 3.0 be the release in which WebKit is included as an external
> > dependency.
> > 
> > --Joanie
> > 
> > 25531:  Metabug: Bugs blocking Orca support
> > https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25531
> > Bugs fixed:   15
> > Current bugs: 29
> > 
> > ~~~~ Critical ~~~~
> > 27097:  Segfault when examining an object of ROLE_TABLE via at-spi
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: If a user is reading the text of a page and encounters an
> >         object of ROLE_TABLE, the browser will crash.
> > 
> > ~~~~ Problems Navigating Through Text ~~~~
> > 25415:  Please implement support for get_text_at_offset
> > Status: TONS of work has been done on this. Support for characters,
> >         words, and sentences seems to work quite nicely. Support for
> >         the current line sometimes works and sometimes does not.
> > Impact: If a user is arrowing through content by line, assistive 
> >         technologies cannot present the current line reliably.
> > 
> > 25677:  Implement support for get_character_extents and 
> >         get_range_extents
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: 1) Because WebKit exposes the text from links and formatted text
> >         as separate accessibles, a screen reader cannot just ask for the
> >         current line and get the full line. Instead, the screen reader
> >         will need to piece together the full line from individual
> >         accessibles. Because of this bug, a screen reader cannot
> >         identify if the text from one accessible is on the same line as 
> >         another to present the full line contents.
> > 
> >         2) Orca's Flat Review mode cannot provide access to WebKit
> >         content.
> > 
> > 25533:  Elements on the same line should be treated as such by caret 
> >         navigation
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: Because a screen reader must "piece together" the current 
> >         content of a line by looking at the position of text objects,
> >         there is an assumption that pressing Up/Down Arrow will move the
> >         user by a full line. When that fails, the screen reader is in
> >         danger of repeating surrounding text, making it hard for the
> >         user to read and understand the content.
> > 
> > 26991:  get_n_selections and get_selection fail when selecting text 
> >         across object boundaries
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: Users who are blind will have difficulty selecting text which 
> >         includes links.
> > 
> > 25676:  Problems navigating by caret in links whose text wraps onto 
> >         subsequent lines
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: A user cannot arrow left and right all the way through the text 
> >         of a link which wraps.
> > 
> > 25669:  Incorrect/missing caret-moved events when navigating across 
> >         object boundaries
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: If a user is arrowing left/right between linked and non-linked 
> >         text, a screen reader cannot reliably present the new location.
> > 
> > 25526:  Additional support is needed for caret browsing
> > Status: Patches proposed and seem to work nicely, need to be committed
> > Impact: Keyboard users cannot navigate and select text in content as 
> >         expected
> > 
> > ~~~~ Problems Accessing Forms ~~~~
> > 25523:  The text displayed by push buttons is not exposed to assistive
> >         technologies
> > Status: Discussed, but not yet addressed.
> > Impact: When a user gives focus to a button, assistive technologies can 
> >         only indicate that *a* button has focus; not *what* button has
> >         focus. As a result, a user who is blind will not know what a
> >         button is or does until he/she presses the button and sees the
> >         results.
> > 
> > 25679:  Improve accessibility of focusable lists
> > Staus:  Unconfirmed
> > Impact: When a user moves around within a focusable list, assistive 
> >         technologies cannot present the current item to the user. As a 
> >         result, focusable lists are completely inaccessible to users who
> >         are blind.
> > 
> > 25678:  Implement ROLE_COMBO_BOX
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: Combo boxes are completely inaccessible to users who are blind.
> > 
> > 25896:  Implement accessible text interface for objects of role 
> >         PASSWORD_TEXT
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: Screen readers cannot present the number of characters 
> >         displayed, indicate when the caret has moved, or confirm when
> >         text has been inserted or removed. Password fields are thus
> >         completely inaccessible to users who are blind.
> > 
> > 25535:  object:state-changed:checked events missing for radio buttons 
> >         and checkboxes
> > Status: Patch attached, waiting for review
> > Impact: A user who is blind has no confirmation that he/she has 
> >         successfully toggled the state of the current radio button or
> >         checkbox.
> > 
> > 25898:  object:text-changed events should be emitted for entries and 
> >         password text
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: When the user types or pastes new text in an entry, or deletes 
> >         text from an entry, screen readers cannot present the
> >         newly-added/deleted text. While this does not render entries
> >         inaccessible to users who are blind, it makes interacting with
> >         them difficult.
> > 
> > 25530:  Implement support for accessible labels
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: Given a properly marked-up form, a screen reader still cannot
> >         present the name/label of each form field receiving focus. As a
> >         result, a user who is blind will find it difficult to know what
> >         information is expected, especially for entries.
> > 
> > ~~~~ Problems Accessing Tabular Data ~~~~
> > 25534:  Objects of ROLE_TABLE should implement the accessible table 
> >         interface
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: Users who are blind cannot access tabular data efficiently and 
> >         may have difficulty understanding the content due to the lack of
> >         table structure.
> > 
> > (See also bug 27097 - Segfault when examining an object of ROLE_TABLE
> > via at-spi)
> > 
> > ~~~~ Other Issues That Really Should Be Addressed ~~~~
> > 25411:  ATK accessible ancestry broken
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: 1) Assistive technologies cannot ascend the hierarchy reliably
> >         within document content.
> > 
> >         2) Assistive technologies needing to know the toolkit associated
> >         with an accessible within document content cannot obtain that
> >         information.
> > 
> > 27011:  Implement support for get_index_in_parent
> > Status: Patch proposed, has issues
> > Impact: Assistive technologies cannot reliably identify where any given 
> >         object is within the accessible hierarchy.
> > 
> > 25413:  Please expose the level of headings.
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: 1) It is more difficult for a user who is blind to understand a
> >         document's structure because he/she cannot identify the level of
> >         headings.
> > 
> >         2) It is more difficult for a user who is blind to navigate
> >         efficiently through a large document whose content is arranged
> >         by headings at various levels because Orca cannot implement that
> >         support without knowing the level of headings.
> > 
> > 25528:  Text attributes not exposed
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: A user who is blind has no way to identify how text is
> >         formatted.
> > 
> > 27048:  Implement STATE_FOCUSED, STATE_FOCUSABLE, and corresponding
> >         events for text objects
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: An assistive technology cannot filter out extraneous events.
> >         Example: It will likely be difficult for Orca users to use an
> >         application's "find" feature due to the presentation of
> >         irrelevant caret-moved and selection-changed events.
> > 
> > 25831:  Events missing when a document is (re)loaded
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: Screen readers are not aware if the content of the current page
> >         is changing, or when it is safe to begin presenting the content
> >         to the user.
> > 
> > 25524:  Expose the title attribute to assistive technologies
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: Information presented to users via the title attribute is not
> >         accessible to users who are blind.
> > 
> > 25525:  Tooltips should be fully keyboard accessible
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: Tooltips (including information presented via the title
> >         attribute) are not accessible to users who cannot use a mouse.
> > 
> > 27085:  Incorrect rendering of list
> > Status: Unconfirmed
> > Impact: Screen readers cannot always report accurate information about 
> >         the number of list items or provide accurate "structural
> >         navigation" by list item.
> > 
> > ~~~~ Minor/Would-Be-Nice Issues ~~~~
> > 25673:  ATs should be able to select/unselect text
> > 25675:  Formatted text should not result in additional/separate 
> >         accessibles
> > 25897:  Extraneous object of ROLE_PANEL in hierarchy for entries
> > 25901:  ROLE_SECTION should be used instead of ROLE_PANEL for 
> >         <div></div>
> > 
> > On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 12:09 +0100, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2009-07-13 at 21:37 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote:
> >>> If there have been changes/improvements/fixes compared to when this
> >>> module was proposed: Mention them.
> >> In the last weeks we have had a fair number of fixes to the a11y support
> >> in WebKitGTK+. I am not the best person to talk about them, but since
> >> Xan is away for a while, I think I should bring this up.
> >>
> >> I am sure there are still some bugs to fix, but it seems to me like the
> >> major problems blocking are now fixed, or almost there, so we should be
> >> able to get them done for a 2.28 release.
> >>
> >> I think it's important to have some comments, and a list of bugs that
> >> are blocking acceptance so that we can asses the viability of getting
> >> all of them closed. Joanmarie, Willie, comments? =)
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> > 
> 
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