Re: [g-a-devel] Extensible states (or properties)

[Peter Korn <Peter Korn Sun COM>]

Hi Aaron,

> Notice that the Message -> Label submenu shows how to mark these. In
> fact you can just hit 0-6 to mark the message.  Each is represented by a
> different color.
>
> Doesn't seem like something can be both Work and Important :)

I've found that to generally be the case!


OK, so the immediate question here is how do we represent this specific visual 
information to users with disabilities, and most especially to blind users. 
There are two levels to ask this question on: the level of "how do we put this 
into AT-SPI as it is implemented in Firefox right now?", and one level removed 
of "how should Firefox render this information more generally to users with 
disabilities?"

For the first question, we could do this directly with AccessibleDescription, 
which frankly makes the most sense.  To the second question, I would think we 
would want something like a tooltip-style interface to expose the label, or 
optionally to have it as a column in the display.  Tooltips by convention are 
the AccessibleDescription of items when no other AccessibleDescription is set, 
so that approach ties in nicely with my first suggestion.


But in looking at this screenshot, I see an underlying accessibility problem 
that we also must address.  One key accessibility rule is that you never use 
solely color to indicate something.  This is codified in Section 508 §1194.21(i):

  Color coding shall not be used as the only means of conveying information,
  indicating an action, prompting a response, or distinguishing a visual
  element.

Unless I'm mistaken, label information in this case is shown visually *solely* 
through color.  As such we have a basic accessibility problem we must also 
solve.  And the solution to this might well provide us with another solution 
to the question of how to expose this to users of assistive technologies. 
E.g. if we introduce a new column titled "label", then the object that is 
shown in that column (in addition to any color coding) might bear the 
AccessibleName of "Important", "Work", etc.


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> - Aaron
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Peter Korn wrote:
>
> > Hi Aaron,
> >
> > Aaron Leventhal wrote:
> >
> > > For the email example, flagged is indicated with a color.
> >
> >
> > Where is the color?  It is overlaid on the text, or is there a cell in 
> > a column that contains a color?  If the latter, then that cell object 
> > can convey this information.  Perhaps you can post a screen shot?
> >
> > > For the IM example, away is indicated with a color. The status string 
> > > is not rendered unless you hover over the buddy name.
> >
> >
> > Ah.  So it is rendered in this case like a tooltip?  We typically map 
> > AccessibleDescription to tooltips.
> >
> > Again, a screen shot would be helpful.
> >
> > > How would you recommend exposing these today?
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter Korn
> > Accessibility Architect,
> > Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> >
> > > - Aaron
> > >
> > > Peter Korn wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Aaron,
> > > >
> > > > I don't understand why these need to be ATK states.  In the e-mail 
> > > > case you cite, "Junk" and "Flagged for follow up", etc. are either 
> > > > written as text on the screen, or there is an icon that can have an 
> > > > AccessibleName.  This is, after all, how the sighted user gets the 
> > > > information.
> > > >
> > > > In the IM client, your status string example speaks for itself - it 
> > > > is a string.  It should implement Atk_Text of course.
> > > >
> > > > In the calendar, how is this information indicated to the user?  Via 
> > > > icons or text, right?  Again, we have standard ways to convey icon 
> > > > information, and of course text.
> > > >
> > > > While these things are, semantically, "state" things, they are about 
> > > > the state of the application (IM), or of a record in the application 
> > > > (e-mail, calendar), and are already otherwise conveyed using user 
> > > > interface elements that we otherwise would be making accessible.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > These don't seem like reasons to add new states to me, let alone 
> > > > something that needs to completely change the state mechanism (to 
> > > > allow for arbitrary strings).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Peter Korn
> > > > Accessibility Architect,
> > > > Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Aaron Leventhal wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > One thing that has come out in the working group for DHTML 
> > > > > accessibility is the need for extensible states.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some sample use cases:
> > > > >
> > > > > _Email:
> > > > > _An email message may be marked with states such as "Junk", 
> > > > > "Flagged for follow up", "Unread"
> > > > >
> > > > > _IM client:_
> > > > > A buddy in a buddy list can have one of the states: idle, away, do 
> > > > > not disturb, etc. These may not be boolean as there may be a status 
> > > > > string such as "Idle for 33 minutes" or "Away: at lunch"
> > > > >
> > > > > _Calendar:
> > > > > _A schedule item make have a state: conflicting, repeating, 
> > > > > tentative, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > We can try to expand the states table to contain all of these use 
> > > > > cases, but I don't think we can ever name all of the useful 
> > > > > potential states or properties. At the moment people stuff this 
> > > > > information into a tooltip or accessible name, which isn't a good 
> > > > > long term solution. UI Automation will provide a localized 
> > > > > statusString which will provide this info, but that is not semantic 
> > > > > -- it would not allow the toggling of these states via on onscreen 
> > > > > keyboard. On the other hand, it is a practical, simple solution 
> > > > > which gets most of what's needed.
> > > > >
> > > > > What will ATK provide?
> > > > >
> > > > > - Aaron
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list
> > > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel gnome org
> > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel
> >
> >
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