Re: [g-a-devel] GNOME3

[Smitten <bittenbyapenguin gmail com>]

Thank you very much for the link to the extensions. I'm working on updating my version of GNOME so that I can use some of the extensions suggested. That one will be especially helpful.

Since I wrote my statements on xmag, I have spent some time with the zoom feature on the accessibility menu. Now that I've given it a good workout I like it very much. Hopefully once I get the other things worked out, I can get the residents together and show them how to use it. It is much simpler than xmag, so I think I have a good chance.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 5:28 AM, Piñeiro <apinheiro igalia com> wrote:

On 01/14/2012 12:44 AM, Smitten wrote:
> Thank you for your response, and for the links. Extremely helpful. I
> hope I did this right. I sent to the list and to you. It's been a VERY
> long time since I worked through lists. *grin*
>
> With reference to:
>
> >>. Instead of going to the Applications view, I think
> is more sensible to configure the dash with your >>favorite applications
>
> How do you add applications to the dash which are not found in the
> applications menu? For example, I have installed xmag for a few of the
> users and I haven't found a way to add it to the dash. Drag and drop
> from the folder didn't work. Trying to drag the icon to the dash while
> the application was running didn't work. I have reverted to the old
> desktop and added it there, but I would like to use it as intended. I
> haven't tried GNOME Magnifier yet, as I have to install.

Hi, I have just installed xmag and take a look. AFAIK, in order to add a
application to the Dash the application needs to provide a .desktop
file. And xmag doesn't provide it (for the same reason, xmag doesn't
appear on the applications menu as you said). Anyway, I'm not sure who
usually solves this, if the distro of the original developer.

About GNOME Magnifier, in the case of GNOME 3 you don't need to install
anything. GNOME 3 has a built-in magnifier. That means that it is not a
different application, but the desktop itself can do the magnification.
You can try it but pressing that accessibility icon at the top right
corner, and activate Zoom. Unfourtunately, the configuration dialog is
still not available, but planned to be added on the release at March.
Anyway, it can be configured using the command line. I know that this is
not ideal (you mentioned dconf-editor, but this is somewhat more
low-level). So don't hesitate in asking specific commands.

>
>
> With regards to:
>
> >>In fact, the GNOME design team has put special care to ensure that it
> >>can be used by those who have a low level of pointer control, either
> >>because they are not well practised at using pointing devices or our
> >>software, because they might not have good control over the hand and
> >>fingers, or because they are using low quality hardware.
>
> It takes more positioning of the mouse to navigate. Even if all you
> have to do is hover, the difficulty is getting the mouse pointer in
> position. If you increase the number of times, or increase the
> distance, the mouse has to be repositioned, you increase the
> difficulty of using your application for persons who have little
> control. For example I can't even switch between desktops (with a
> mouse) without first clicking on Activities, then moving to the
> opposite side of the page to nudge the widow that contains the
> desktops, and finally clicking on the desktop. Then I have to repeat
> it all to get back. Formerly I just clicked once on a window in the
> panel and I was there. There's an enormous amount of repositioning the
> mouse! She can't use keyboard shortcuts! She only has two fingers
> mobile on one hand. How can she press Ctrl, Alt, Tab? I found that one
> under the heading "Accessibility" in one of the links you provided. I
> think that's actually textbook for irony. *grin*

Ctrl+Alt+Tab was also GNOME2 shortcut to set the keyboard focus on a
different region of the desktop. For this same reason I agree with you
that this is not a "accessibility switcher", it is just a utility dialog
if you want to use the desktop without the mouse, that it is not your
case (note to myself: contact that writer page to rewrite that).

For the issue related with the desktop switching, there are a extension
to do that. Just in case: GNOME 3 provides a easy way to developers to
create custom extensions. This is the page:

https://extensions.gnome.org/

There are two different extensions to add a workspace switcher:

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/21/workspace-indicator/
https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/3/bottom-panel/

Although it is true that this doesn't solve the issues related to add a
new desktop. In my personal case, I also miss the possibility of having
some predefining desktops existing by default, instead of the current
default 1. But this is just my personal taste.

>
> Responding to:
>
> >>And about the Applications view, the applications are grouped like in
> >>the old way ...
>
> While you are correct that you still have "Accessories," "Games," etc
> in the same old order, first you have to click on "Activities" then
> you must click on "Applications" and finally you have to move your
> mouse pointer to the opposite side of the screen to click on the set
> you want. Once you do, you have to scroll through three screens to
> access Tetravex for example, while the old way I only had to move my
> mouse pointer about three inches on my little Netbook. I don't think
> the designers have thought this through.

As far as I remember, designers were mostly thinking on doing the search
introducing some text. As you said, this is not really practical if you
want to use only the mouse to launch an application.

For this case, there is the option of a extension setting you a menu
more similar to the one used at GNOME 2

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/6/applications-menu/

>
> Additionally, while I was specifically speaking about control, as B is
> the person I'm most concerned about, there are many other problems
> that must be overcome for nursing home residents. The designers have
> made such a drastic change that the residents with memory issues are
> going to have a difficult time.
>
> I made some specialty icons for the desktop. For example an 82 year
> old preacher with Alzheimers is able to recognize the Bible on the
> desktop. When he clicks that it takes him to a Web site that lets him
> read and study the Bible, as he has for over 60 years. It's something
> he remembers how to do, but only if he sees that icon.

Yes you are right, I didn't realize that you can't add a launcher on the
desktop itself (I never used too much that feature). Probably it would
be easier to create an extension.

Having said so, and after proof-read my mail. IMHO, asking an user to
install and try 4 or 5 customs extensions are not practical. And at this
moment, it can be problematic to install a extension if you don't have
the specific desktop version. In the same way, if you need to add 4 or 5
custom extensions this can be a sign that something is wrong. And most
of your comments shows not only accessibility issues, but IMHO, also
more general usability issues.

>
> I've overcome most of these issues, however I did it by reverting BACK
> to the desktop. I am NOT able to use GNOME3 as it was intended to be
> used.  Or rather I can (almost), although with more difficulty than
> before, but the residents can't.

This is a pity, and shows that there are still a lot of room for
improvement. I hope that my comments would be useful somehow. Not sure
if you need all the extensions, but taking into account your comments,
probably the extension to have a GNOME2 applications menu could be useful.

Thanks for the review and all the feedback.

BR

--
Alejandro Piñeiro Iglesias