bugzilla was Re: progress of Gnopernicus

["Tom Masterson" <kd7cyu yahoo com>]

What are people having trouble with in bugzilla?  I have no problems using
it with either lynx or Internet explorer and with a braille display.  I
haven't tried it with speech since that is not working on my linux box and I
don't use it under windows (if possible).  If I know what the problem is I
might be able to think of some workarounds that might help some people.  If
done right the person sho generates the bug reports will be updated aas the
status of the bug is changed, if they want it.  While I don't work as a
coder on bugzilla I do use it fairly often.

Tom
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina rednote net>
To: "David Bolter" <david bolter utoronto ca>
Cc: "Janina Sajka" <janina rednote net>; "Bill Haneman"
<Bill Haneman Sun COM>; <gnome-accessibility-list gnome org>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 14:04
Subject: Re: progress of Gnopernicus


> Hi, David:
>
> I'm sure the ideal solution is to get Bugzilla fixed. But, until then, I
> don't see how else to encourage issue reports from real users. It would
> certainly also make it possible to ask for more information, and I
> expect people would respond to that knowing their experiences were being
> turned into real bug reports. And, it would be a good PR move to post
> the bug number back to the mailing list.
>
> David Bolter writes:
> > From: David Bolter <david bolter utoronto ca>
> >
> > Janina, I think the informal bug reports often due end up as bugzilla
> > reports (by the module maintainers), but you raise an interesting idea.
> >  To have such a volunteer would be great!  If they don't follow through
> > then they are relieved of duty by someone else I guess.
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > David Bolter
> > Janina Sajka wrote:
> > >Thanks, Bill, for the clear statement about where things are with
> > >Gnopernicus.
> > >
> > >I'm a tad confused, though. When you write:
> > >
> > >"Perhaps those on the list who are able to use bugzilla fairly
> > >effectively can post a textual bug form so that we can integrate bug
> > >information from those without good access to bugzilla," what exactly
> > >are you suggesting?
> > >
> > >It seems to me fundamentally important to accept informal reports via
> > >the list if you really mean to collect user experiences and learn what
> > >actual users care about. Of course, there would nothing wrong with
> > >providing a simple form (in ASCII) for  users to fill out and post.
> > >
> > >I understand the tremendous value of a tool like Bugzilla, and I would
> > >certainly not expect that any postings on the list can actually
> > >substitute for such a tool. It would still be necessary for someone to
> > >take those postings and turn them into actual submissions via Bugzilla.
> > >But, who's going to step up and volunteer? And if someone does, how can
> > >we be assured that they'll actually follow through? The best intentions
> > >in the world will often fall victim to other commitments. No, I think
it
> > >needs to be somebody's job to do that. It's unfortunate--but then one
> > >can't blame users for the problems with Bugzilla.
> > >
> > >Thoughts?
> > >
> > >Bill Haneman writes:
> > >
> > >>From: Bill Haneman <Bill Haneman Sun COM>
> > >>
> > >>Hi Kenny, and all.
> > >>
> > >>We know there are problems with gnopernicus - but that doesn't mean we
> > >>know what they all are, or which ones are the most important to users.
> > >>Also, not all bugs are present in the versions that we (gnopernicus
and
> > >>accessibility teams) are testing.
> > >>
> > >>Bear in mind that gnopernicus hasn't actually ever "officially
released"
> > >>a version - you are using software that's under active development, on
> > >>an unstable branch.  So it's really a very different situation from
> > >>commercial offerings with supported releases - we're just not there
> > >>yet.  But we really need good quality feedback from early adopters and
> > >>testers like yourself - and that's the very important role you are
> > >>playing now.
> > >>
> > >>When you build software from CVS HEAD, particularly when you are on an
> > >>"unstable branch" of GNOME, things do break, sometimes badly.  If you
> > >>want software that's stable, you'll need to stick to stable branches.
> > >>However, at the moment the previous 'stable' branch of GNOME and
> > >>gnopernicus are substantially less that what you'd need to get work
done
> > >>as a user.  We do think that the GNOME 2.6 release of gnopernicus and
> > >>GNOME itself will be substantially better than 2.4 from an
accessibility
> > >>standpoint, but I suspect that "version 1.0" of gnopernicus (that is,
> > >>the first version which the gnopernicus team feels is ready to
announce
> > >>as an 'official release') will be a little further down the road from
> > >>there (2.6 release of GNOME is scheduled for March 8).
> > >>
> > >>Also, note that the currently available versions of Mozilla are
lacking
> > >>significant support, as some users have already noted.  We are trying
to
> > >>work closely with the Mozilla folks to get the accessibility features
> > >>out there, but again, things are still in the development and test
phase
> > >>at the moment and no claims are being made about "product readiness"
of
> > >>the currently existing builds.
> > >>
> > >>I do sincerely appreciate the tremendous effort that many of you on
the
> > >>list continue to make in order to help us achieve a fully accessible,
> > >>freely available desktop.  I hope you'll hang in there for the coming
> > >>months as we continue to improve, and keep us posted on both problems
> > >>and solutions as you find them.  As for bugzilla, we rely very heavily
> > >>on it; basically if a bug isn't in bugzilla, it isn't being worked on.
> > >>Perhaps those on the list who are able to use bugzilla fairly
> > >>effectively can post a textual bug form so that we can integrate bug
> > >>information from those without good access to bugzilla.
> > >>
> > >>best regards,
> > >>
> > >>Bill
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Hi.  I don't have bug numbers.  Just the fact you guys were willing
to
> > >>>release a version of Gnopernicus with broken flat review.
Gnopernicus
> > >>>is the only access technology I've found that realeases a new
> > >>>version
> > >>>that gives less access than the previous one.
> > >>>In case you've forgoten, flat review is the only chance you have to
get
> > >>>anything useful from the help system of Gnome applications.  That
> > >>>includes Gnopernicus.  How do you expect to get feedback from blind
> > >>>people when there is no way to find out how to use the apps?
> > >>>
> > >>>       Kenny
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
> > >>gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> > >>http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
> > >
> > >
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina rednote net
> Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://a11y.org
> _______________________________________________
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>