Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog

[Peter Korn <Peter Korn Sun COM>]

Hi Chris,

I think there are two issues here.  Well, three:

1. Can an on-screen keyboard implement "sticky" modifiers without using 
the system support for sticky modifiers? 
2. Can an on-screen keyboard circumvent/disable the system support for 
sticky modifiers (and slow keys, and...)?
3. Is the right way to "fix" what is "broken" in GOK doing another 
project rather than working with the existing GOK code to "fix" those 
"broken" things?

I suggest that #3 may be somewhat religious at this point; I'm 
personally saddened that we aren't at least looking seriously at GOK 
improvements, but fundamentally a goal of UNIX accessibility is to 
foster the development of a rich accessibility ecosystem - and a rich 
ecosystem has room for multiple approaches to similar problems (cf. Orca 
and Gnopernicus and LSR).

I have no issues with #1 - I see no reason why an on-screen keyboard 
cannot have its own way of making certain modifiers sticky on its own 
user interface *without* doing so through the system-wide setting 
mechanisms.  Such a decision is I think a valid user-interface policy 
decision of an individual application.

However, it is a direct Section 508 violation for an application to 
override or ignore system-wide accessibility settings.  It is even more 
egregious for an application that claims to be at least in part for 
people with disabilities (and thus an 'enlightened' application) to do so.


So, my suggestion is that if you simply cannot possible use the 
system-settings for sticky keys as part of your own UI, that you make 
things sticky your own way; however that if the system-wide settings are 
on that you use and respect those (complete with the dialog box that you 
seem to dislike).


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> But this very same thing makes it very awkward who want sticky keys on
> the keyboard and non-sticky on a physical.  Which would be true for
> all non-a11y users and some a11y users.
>
> In the end though the only manner it interferes with my keyboard is
> the annoying dialogue that pops up, and the average  gnome-ally user
> will probably be plenty used to seeing annoying dialogs anyway.
>
> The slow keys dialogue however is another matter though.  Normal
> operations are not resumed until it is dismissed.  Which in itself
> incredibly annoying.
>
> When planning the SOK I wanted to stay away from the three odd dialogs
> that GOK pops up when it is started.  The plain fact is I don't want
> any dialogs when starting SOK.  At all.
>
> Using the system wide sticky keys means I need to have at least one
> dialog box when my keyboard starts and is therefore completely
> unacceptable.
>
> On 26/06/06, Bill Haneman <Bill Haneman sun com> wrote:
>   
> > On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 22:28, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote:
> >     
> > > Chris Jones wrote:
> > >       
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > In other words I cannot spend the summer making gnome-a11y suitable
> > > > for my needs.  What I need is a temporary work around until after the
> > > > SoC when I could find time to work on this aspect of gnome-a11y and
> > > > fix my program so it is not an "accessibility violation".
> > > >         
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > Can you not simply make SOK remember that shift was pressed and keep the
> > > state internally in SOK? IOW:
> > >       
> > We tried this with GOK at an early stage and it was not satisfactory.
> > It also clashed badly with StickyKeys.  It doesn't make sense to build
> > an onscreen keyboard and then not expect disabled users to try and use
> > it, and they will rightly complain if it conflicts with StickyKeys.
> >
> > If you really are unwilling to turn on the global StickyKeys gconf key
> > while the onscreen keyboard is posted, or at least when the pointer is
> > inside it... (and I really do not understand why this would be a
> > problem) there is XKB ABI which you can use to change the latch/lock
> > status of individual modifier keys.  This should do exactly what you
> > want without making StickyKeys active for the physical keyboard.
> >
> > google for XKBlib.pdf to find the XKB client manual, I believe it's
> > section 10.6 that has the relevant client APIs.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >     
> > > 1. when the user clicks shift you set a flag. When a letter is clicked
> > > SOK sends shift+<letter>+unshift to X and removes the flag.
> > >
> > > 2. When shift is clicked twice you set a sticky flag. Again, each time
> > > the user clicks a letter, SOK sends shift+<letter>+unshift. When shift
> > > is clicked again you unset the flag.
> > >
> > > That way you avoid triggering slow keys and avoid making an
> > > 'accessibility violation'.
> > >
> > > Bill, is it an accessibility violation to have unusable accessibility tools?
> > >
> > > - Henrik
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
> > > gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
> > >       
> >     
>
>
>