RE: [orca-list] accessible login

["Darragh" <lists digitaldarragh com>]

Sounds similar to the bug that the OpenSUSE people are working on.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=332498

they've broken the desktop though as well.  
At-spi doesn't seem to be recognised at all. But, you will see the history
of it in that bug report if your interested. 


Darragh

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnome-accessibility-list-bounces gnome org [mailto:gnome-
> accessibility-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
> Sent: 20 October 2007 01:49
> To: Brian Cameron
> Cc: Willie Walker; Jonathan Blandford; orca-list gnome org; Janina
> Sajka; David Zeuthen; gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> Subject: Re: [orca-list] accessible login
> 
> I need to report recent breakage in gdm--not sure exactly when, but
> recent, within a month or so.
> 
> I have been a great fan of editing my (Fedora) /etc/gdm/custom.conf a
> la:
> 
> # If SoundOnLogin is true, then the greeter will beep when login is
> ready
> # for user input.  If SoundOnLogin is a file and the greeter finds the
> # 'play' executable (see daemon/SoundProgram) it will play that file
> # instead of just beeping
> #SoundOnLogin=true
> SoundOnLogin=/boot/gdm.wav
> 
> This is with gdm-2.20.1-4.fc8 on a fully updated Fedora 7.93 (beta).
> 
> I've cc'd David and Jonathan from Fedora, because I'm concerned the new
> pulseaudio may also be part of the problem. Not only can I not play my
> gdm.wav from gdm, I can't get a simple beep either. Alas, after loggin
> an ordinary user, I get audio--though root still can't play audio. This
> is clearly an a11y bug somewhere--not sure if it's gdm, or just Fedora
> implementation.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Brian Cameron writes:
> >
> > Janina:
> >
> > It sounds like your testing shows that in many situations, things are
> > working properly, which is nice.
> >
> > > GLITCHES:
> > >
> > > 1.)	Always on boot--the first GDM accessible login
> > > attempt--would fail. While Orca would start, I heard "Welcome to
> Orca,"
> > > I did not hear Orca say, "Panel." And, indeed, I could not get any
> more
> > > speech until I restarted X (Ctrl-Alt-Backspace).
> >
> > Why would Orca say "Panel" at login time.  I don't think GDM has
> > any panel?
> >
> > One thing you can try is to create a gesture listener that will
> > launch an xterm by adding a gesture to
> > /etc/X11/gdm/modules/AccessKeyMouseEvents to start xterm.  Then
> > start the xterm and try running the same orca command that you
> > find associated with the gesture in AccessKeyMouseEvents file.
> >
> > Sometimes you can see errors echoed back to the terminal that might
> > highlight what is wrong when you do this.
> >
> > > 2.)	In all cases Orca would not launch upon login. I had always
> to
> > > start Orca by hand (Alt-F2). This is consistently the case on F-7
> and
> > > F-7.92, except that Orca does start automatically for me on a fresh
> > > boot, if I do NOT try an accessible login with GDM. I do have the
> > > appropriate checkboxes checked in Assistive Technology Preferences.
> > >
> > > 	David, should I file a bug? Against which app?
> >
> > Some of the issues you describe might be caused by mismanagement
> > of the audio device.  Perhaps the audio device doesn't have the
> > right permissions in some cases?  In cases when it fails, what
> > happens if you try to access /dev/audio?  Perhaps some program is
> > openeing /dev/audio in BLOCKING mode and not closing the device?
> >
> > > 3.)	If a speech engine that uses OSS is involved, I am able to
> get
> > > either accessible GDM, or Orca at the desktop, but not both. If I
> > > succeed with accessible GDM, I will be unable to launch Orca for
> the
> > > desktop. It simply doesn't happen. However, if I login without
> speech,
> > > Orca starts (via Alt-F2) without problem.
> > >
> > > 	David, Jonathan, here's the #1 reason to default to espeak and
> > > leave festival as an available, add-on install.
> >
> > Do you mean to say this problem only happens with festival and not
> > espeak?  If so, then this is probably a bug in festival.
> >
> > > 4.)	The strangest circumstance I found myself in gave me espeak
> at
> > > GDM, but TTSynth (ibmtts) at the desktop (F-7.92). Opening Orca
> > > Preferences showed only the Viavoice driver until I reran 'orca -t'
> over
> > > ssh. Interestingly, I was able to login and out several times with
> this
> > > strange espeak plus TTSynth combination--until I reran setup.
> > >
> > > 	I do not understand this one.
> >
> > Me either.
> >
> > > 5.)	Not specific to Orca and GDM, but a problem for
> accessibility on
> > > Fedora nevertheless -- If I log in and out as several users in some
> kind
> > > of random rotation, I will eventually lose audio rights if root is
> also
> > > logged in somewhere.aI can also achieve this with one ordinary user
> plus
> > > root. I have tried this from several directions, being
> > > careful to login first as an ordinary user, and to insure that an
> > > ordinary user is always logged in.
> > >
> > > 	I  have not tried gui only logins to see whether I can break
> > > audio that way. However, I believe many users, especially early on,
> will
> > > be both console and gui logins--so this will be a problem.
> > >
> > > 	Something in PAM? Would we had an audio group for audio device
> > > access!
> >
> > I am not sure how audio device permission management is handled on
> > your system.  But it sounds like you are having problems with how
> > /dev/audio permissions are managed on your OS.
> >
> > It might require some configuration to support what you want to do.
> > Perhaps you need to fix /dev/audio so that it always has read/write
> > permissions for all users.  Some systems use an "audio" group to
> > manage this.
> >
> > It doesn't make sense for all systems to allow all users read/write
> > access to the audio device.  In a multi-user environment, you don't
> > really want people competing for the audio device.  But, in an
> > environment where there is only one user, but the user switches
> > accounts between root and their user, it might make sense to just
> > allow all users to always have read/write permissions to the audio
> > device.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> > > Brian Cameron writes:
> > >> Willie:
> > >>
> > >> This change was made to allow distros to configure where
> > >> at-spi-registryd is located, if it is not in the default
> "libexecdir"
> > >> location.  So, distros that install at-spi-registryd to a
> different
> > >> location need to specify --with-atspi-dir=/path when configuring
> GDM.
> > >>
> > >> If this is their problem, then this should fix it.  This configure
> > >> option is new in GDM 2.20.  If using older GDM, then you'ld
> probably
> > >> just need to hack gui/gdmcommon.c to look in the right directory
> or
> > >> backport the new configure option to the older GDM.
> > >>
> > >> Brian
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Thanks!  I think the OpenSUSE folks also ran into the same
> problem.  JP
> > >>> seemed to think this change might have been the source of
> confusion:
> > >>>
> http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gdm2/trunk/gui/gdmcommon.c?r1=5263&r2=5262&;
> pathrev=5263.
> > >>> This change seemed to go in with
> > >>> http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gdm2?view=revision&revision=5263.
> > >>> I'm not an expert in how various distributions build things,
> though, so
> > >>> I'm just passing on what I understood.
> > >>>
> > >>> Will
> > >>>
> > >>> Brian Cameron wrote:
> > >>>> Janina:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Some thoughts from the GDM maintainer...
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Accessible login appears to be broken on every Linux
> distribution. As
> > >>>>> Will points out, this is an issue with distributions.
> Nevertheless, it's
> > >>>>> a serious issue for accessibility.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> I recently worked with Ubuntu to fix their problems with
> accessibility
> > >>>> so I think their recent releases should be working.  Their
> problem was
> > >>>> that they install the at-spi-registryd to a non-default location
> and
> > >>>> they needed to fix the way they call configure to specify the
> location
> > >>>> of the registry daemon.  This might be a problem for other
> distros?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> There also have been some useful a11y related bug fixes in GDM
> 2.20,
> > >>>> so I would recommend using the latest & greatest.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> The email below discusses Ubuntu. At the Gnome A11y Summit this
> weekend
> > >>>>> we verified that Suse is broken. My own experience indicates
> that Fedora
> > >>>>> 7 and Fedora 7.91 are broken.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> It would be helpful if people were to file bugs or explain on
> the
> > >>>> gdm-list gnome org mail list what the problems are.  I'd be
> happy to
> > >>>> help.  The GDM documentation at the following link has some help
> > >>>> in the "Accessibility" section to explain how to debug some
> common
> > >>>> accessibility issues with GDM:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>   http://www.gnome.org/projects/gdm/docs.html
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Now that our assistive technologies have passed from mostly
> > >>>>> developmental software into the realm of usable tools for real
> people
> > >>>>> with disabilities, this situation is no longer tolerable. We
> must call
> > >>>>> on all distributions to institute procedures to insure that
> accessible
> > >>>>> login gets fixed and stays fixed. This will require regular
> testing, as
> > >>>>> there are many ways to break accessible login.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> There are some well known bugs/issues with accessibility.  For
> example,
> > >>>> it doesn't work so well with gdmgreeter and some AT programs.
> You
> > >>>> probably need to switch to using gdmlogin if you really need to
> use an
> > >>>> AT that can interact with the widgets.  gdmgreeter would require
> some
> > >>>> work to really support accessibility properly.  It's main
> problem is
> > >>>> the way it uses GnomeCanvas for building the theme, and the fact
> that
> > >>>> it doesn't support keyboard navigation.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Also, failsafe xterm isn't accessible.  Perhaps GDM should be
> > >>>> configurable so you could use it with gnome-terminal, which does
> support
> > >>>> accessibility?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> gdmsetup is also not accessible, and probably can't be as long
> as it
> > >>>> requires that you run it as root.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Brian
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Willie Walker writes:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hi Guy:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> The last time I looked, accessible login was broken on Gutsy.
> I
> > >>>>>> sent information off to the Ubuntu folks for tracking the
> problem
> > >>>>>> down, but I'm not sure where they stand with it right now.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> There's some information on Accessible Login here:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> http://www.gnome.org/projects/gdm/docs/2.18/accessibility.html
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hope this helps,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Will
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> PS - Accessible login does indeed work - I've tested it on
> OpenSolaris.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Guy Schlosser wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Hey all, how do you enable accessible login in Gutsy?  After
> I
> > >>>>>>> updated last night, I now have the login sound, but orca does
> not
> > >>>>>>> start automaticly.  Any suggestions?  Also, is there
> something that
> > >>>>>>> needs to be done in order to have Orca read items where you
> have to
> > >>>>>>> be root to administer?  Finally, one last question.  I
> noticed that
> > >>>>>>> firefox 3 was in the Gutsy universe repos.  Why isn't that
> updated
> > >>>>>>> after alpha7.  Alpha 8 has been released and a9pre is
> current.
> > >>>>>>> Thanks much in advance for any help.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Guy
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>> Orca-list mailing list
> > >>>>>>> Orca-list gnome org
> > >>>>>>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > >>>>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>> Orca-list mailing list
> > >>>>>> Orca-list gnome org
> > >>>>>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > >>>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
> > >>>> gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> > >>>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
> > >>>>
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Orca-list mailing list
> > Orca-list gnome org
> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca
> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.202.595.7777;	sip:janina a11y org
> Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://CapitalAccessibility.Com
> 
> Marketing the Owasys 22C talking screenless cell phone in the U.S. and
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> 
> Chair, Open Accessibility	janina a11y org
> Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org
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