RE: Vibuntu Press Release

[Bryen <suserocks bryen com>]

While I understand the need for this and support the efforts of everyone
who has created a specialized version of a distro in order to make it
accessible, I do sincerely hope that we all agree to continue to work
together towards the goal of making the actual distro completely
accessible in its own right.  As Willie himself likes to say, we need to
focus on a baked-in, not bolted-on approach.

I'm often leery of the effects of this type of 'segregated effort',
because when we do, we encourage the notion that we're a separate group
that tends to its own needs and therefore the larger community thinks
they don't need to do anything because someone else is handling it.
Remember, the true definition of 'A11y' is not that it makes computing
accessible to people with disabilities, but to make computing accessible
to anyone regardless of physical or mental abilities.  That's true
accessibility and a notion we should all hold very dear as we continue
to improve a11y.  No one should have to go hunting for a specialized
packaged of a distribution because they are unable to use the primary
distribution.

In the openSUSE community, I have purposely avoided creating specialized
a11y groups, forums, chat channels, etc.  It is my belief that we need
to be seen and heard by all members of the community so that everyone is
working on the solution together.  This is especially true when you
realize that many mainstream technological advances have been borne out
of a previous a11y technology solution.  The world community as a whole
benefitted from us.

Developers need to be educated to think about as many users as possible
using their distribution, including a11y users.  For example, beginning
with openSUSE 11, visually impaired people can now install it simply by
pressing F9 and the installation gets spoken through the process.  I
believe Ubuntu also has done something similar.  Red Hat is working hard
at revamping GDM so that logins are more accessible.  These are all
baked-in solutions that strive to make the primary distribution
accessible, rather than needing to hunt for that specialized, packaged
version of the distribution.  Remember, someone might suggest to a new
user "Oh you should use <insert Distro here>" but may not be aware that
there is a Vibuntu or Speakup to recommend to that person.  

While I am not a fan of such packaging, I am indeed a fan of all of you
who have made the effort to create them.  They meet the reality of the
needs as they exist today.  However, I hope that we all keep the notion
in mind that this should only be a stopgap measure and that we continue
our efforts, especially with GNOME A11y, in making the original
distribution completely accessible.  Only then will we achieve our true
goal of world domination!  :-)

Thanks,

-- 
Bryen Yunashko
openSUSE Board Member
GNOME-A11y Team Member

On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 15:54 +0000, Anthony Sales wrote:
> It is obvious that we are not going to agree over this, but everyone is
> entitled to express their own opinions and I understand and respect your
> position even though I don't completely agree with it. Our peers in the wider
> VI community will ultimately be the judges not me or you. I am not going to
> make any money out of this and I am trying to reach as wide an audience as
> possible, which I wouldn't call advertising but dissemination. I hope we can
> agree to differ on this issue, and I would of course welcome feedback and or
> suggestions regarding Vibuntu if you think it can be improved in some way.
> 
> Have a good xmas!
> 
> drbongo
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Perry [mailto:whistler blinksoft com]
> Sent: Sat 13/12/2008 14:27
> To: Anthony Sales
> Subject: RE: Vibuntu Press Release
>  
> 
> 
> I am not arguing that your distro is needed I am arguing that its "the First
> accessible" distro. I like to see things stand on their own merit not some
> advertising claim.
> 
> Ken  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Sales [mailto:tony sales rncb ac uk] 
> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 7:23 AM
> To: Ken Perry
> Cc: orca-list gnome org; ubuntu-accessibility lists ubuntu com;
> gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> Subject: RE: Vibuntu Press Release
> 
> Ken, I agree with what you have said, the but as you state - it is 'skilled
> users' that are able to do such things, not beginners  who have never heard
> of or tried Linux. I am not trying to steal anyones thunder, because my
> target audience is different to yours - I am aiming at schools, colleges and
> institutions which need accessible software but cannot afford expensive
> commercial products and don't have staff who have used Linux themselves.
> This
> is the very specific niche at which this distro is aimed - and I challenge
> you to use Orca with any admin apps on the ubuntu 8.04/8.10 desktop without
> making complicated changes and/or knowing how to use the terminal. I still
> maintain that this is the first Linux live CD to be accessible to sighted,
> blind and partially sighted users out of the box with no prior experience of
> linux. I agree that 99% of the credit for this lies with Gnome, Orca, Compiz
> and Ubuntu, probably in that order. All I have done is make a few small but
> significant changes which Ubuntu could have done if they wanted, but they
> didn't and neither has anyone else to my knowledge. Again send me a link to
> an iso which is as easy to use for novices out of the box and I will abandon
> the project, because I don't believe in wasting my time reinventing the
> wheel, its just that all the wheels out their seem to be round and I want a
> square one! ;)
> 
> I appreciate you thoughts, and welcome this kind of discussion, if you are
> correct then there is no need for a Vibuntu type distro and the project will
> fail. 
> 
> I have taken the liberty of posting these communications on the Orca, Ubuntu
> and Gnome mailing lists as I would like to open this debate up to the wider
> community.
> 
> Keep in Touch
> 
> Drbongo
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Perry [mailto:whistler blinksoft com] 
> Sent: 13 December 2008 01:59
> To: Anthony Sales
> Subject: RE: Vibuntu Press Release
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe saying easily usable and accessible then because I am sorry but
> skilled
> users have been using Redhat as far back as Redhat 6 and I am not talking
> about from telnet.  I have used that from day one of Slackware with telnet.
> Furthermore Ubuntu 8.04 seems to have solved most of the administration
> problems and again while it has problems its more accessible than windows or
> Mac and I think you would have a hard time if you came out and said you have
> the first accessible Vista box.  I might be arguing semantics but I feel
> saying it's the first accessible Linux distribution degrades the work the
> Speakup team has done all the way up to current Fedora to the work Ubuntu
> has
> done to make the Ubuntu 8.04 distro work out of the box.  Just because it is
> hard to do something does not mean it's not accessible.  If you  want to
> talk
> usability then I would agree with you on the points you have already pointed
> out.
> 
> As I would agree with someone if they finally made a safe mode for Windows
> we
> could use or a bios editor for mother boards.  Just because we cannot do
> these things does not.  I thank you for making a more usable accessible
> distribution but I don't like miss leading advertisement. make the OS
> un-accessible.
> 
> Ken
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Sales [mailto:tony sales rncb ac uk]
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:47 PM
> To: Ken Perry
> Subject: RE: Vibuntu Press Release
> 
> True, but my release clearly states that it is the first linux distro to be
> accessible and have a full gui desktop for sighted`users as well. I may be
> wrong, but I am an experienced Linux user and I and many other people having
> been looking for a distro like this for years. Also in a default Ubuntu
> install Orca will not work with many of the admin applications like ubiquity
> etc unless you know how to turn Orca off and restart it in --no-setup mode
> in
> the terminal etc, which means you will have no speech feedback and need to
> know the keystrokes from memory. It is unlikely that a beginner would know
> how to do this and that is why Vibuntu is aimed at VI users who have never
> tried Linux before, but the provision of a gui desktop allows other sighted
> users to use the same distro. I have no intentions of misleading anyone and
> if you could point me to the URL of a linux distro that does everything
> Vibuntu does out of the box I would love to know about it as then I wouldn't
> have to spend hours modifying someone else's inaccessible distro!
> 
> drbongo
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Perry [mailto:whistler blinksoft com]
> Sent: Sat 13/12/2008 00:12
> To: Anthony Sales
> Subject: RE: Vibuntu Press Release
>  
> 
> 
> I do have to say that saying that ViBuntu is the first accessible Linux out
> of the box is a bit um untrue.  There is the Speakup distributions and
> Ubuntu
> is accessible just with picking the access options so I think your add is
> miss leading.
> 
> Ken
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnome-accessibility-list-bounces gnome org
> [mailto:gnome-accessibility-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of Anthony
> Sales
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 4:00 PM
> To: ubuntu-accessibility lists ubuntu com;
> gnome-accessibility-list gnome org; orca-list gnome org
> Subject: Vibuntu Press Release
> 
> I have written a short press release aimed at VI users who may not know
> about
> Linux. I would be grateful if you could post it on any general
> accessibility/software sites/forums you use if you think it would be a good
> way of getting the uninitiated to give Linux a try! If we manage to get
> enough interest from a few institutions, charities or government agencies it
> may be possible to obtain some funding for a few developers to work on the
> project full or part-time! Thanks for all the support. I hope people on the
> mailing lists don't think I just a self-promoting megalomaniac, I really do
> want to help VI users and I believe (perhaps naively) that Vibuntu is a step
> in the right direction. Please feel free to shoot me down in flames! <straps
> on his asbestos wings and applies liberal amounts of sun-block> The press
> release follows!
> 
> 
> Vibuntu - The first Linux distro to be fully accessible to blind and
> partially sighted users out of the box!
> 
> 
> 
> Vibuntu is a customised version of the popular Ubuntu Linux distribution
> optimised to meet the needs of visually impaired users by default. Vibuntu
> comes in the form of a live CD  which you place in the CD drive and then
> restart your computer. Once it boots a screen-reader is activated, USB
> Braille displays are automatically detected and full screen magnification
> can
> be turned on/off with a simple keystroke. Vibuntu also provides an
> attractive
> visual interface which makes it suitable for sighted, partially sighted and
> blind users. You can navigate the menus and applications using the
> screen-reader and/or Braille display or switch this support off and use the
> full screen magnification. This is an ideal way of introducing visually
> impaired users to the Linux operating system which offers a free and
> open-source alternative to expensive proprietary software. This is very safe
> and secure way to let someone experience Linux and experiment without taking
> any risks or making any changes to your computer. You can continue to use
> Vibuntu as a live CD or install it to your hard drive either alongside
> Windows or as a complete desktop replacement. It is also possible to install
> and run Vibuntu from a USB memory stick if your computer supports USB
> booting. If you are interested in trying Vibuntu or would just like to know
> more about it please visit the project website at
> http://blinuxman.net/projects/vibuntu.php
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