Re: visual impairment focused design

[Peter Vágner <pvdeejay gmail com>]

Hello,

I think if there is indeed an accessibility work for linux, then it's 
very likelly it's on this front i.e. GTK+3.
So If you have decided for GTK3 because you are aiming for a desktop app 
accessible on linux, then I think this is a good choice.
It does not really matter whether your app will be written in 
javascript, in wala, in python or in C# although I would either go with 
wala or javascript because that's the trend when looking at some 
recently added gnome 3 apps.
Most of the GTK3 widgets have decent built-in accessibility support. You 
may encounter issues when you have to draw to the screen using GDK or 
Cairo directly or when you are going to handle some insanelly huge data 
sets.

However If you are looking to build a crossplatform app, then GTK is not 
a good choice as GTK is only accessible on linux and not other platforms 
i.e. Mac or Windows.


Greetings

Peter



On 26.11.2016 at 05:09 Janina Sajka via gnome-accessibility-list wrote:
> You can do that, of course. Same threhold concern applies, however.
> You'll find yourself responsible for AT-SPI/ATK support vs. inheriting
> it from a widget toolkit.
>
> You might want to be aware, for instance, that gtk3 is not that popular among Linux gui users. Evidence is 
> the level
> of preference for Mate. Looking at the environments created by blind
> user specific spins like Vinux and Sonar would be instructive.
>
> Basically, the wider industry turned its back on end users first when
> IBM pulled out of Linux desktop development in 2006, and then when
> Oracle bought out Sun. The remaining players have been willing to let
> development slide, by and large. A few brave souls are keeping the
> basics going by continuing to maintain AT-SPI/ATK and Webkit support.
>
> If I've misrepresented a11y support on current Linux/Unix desktops, I'm
> sure others on list will correct my characterizations. I'm quite
> confident there's more to say about that.
>
> Janina
>
> Michal Koudelka writes:
> > Yes, I realize now it was not a wise choice of subject, sorry about that.
> >
> > I do not plan to make this an html5 app, I plan to use gtk3. At this moment
> > I did some very primitive prototyping using javascript and gjs but when I
> > start with real coding I will probably switch to vala or c#.
> >
> > 2016-11-26 2:44 GMT+01:00 Janina Sajka <janina rednote net>:
> >
> > > Michal Koudelka writes:
> > > > The applications primary designed to fulfil needs of a specific person
> > > and
> > > > relatively small group of people. Of course it's supposed to be
> > > opensource
> > > > and available, but I admit that target group is quite specific
> > > So, you're now saying your original post is overly broad? Should we be
> > > changing the Subject: line of this thread?
> > >
> > > > The requirements and specification are definitely not final, we are
> > > working
> > > > on possible user scenarios and so far I made only few ui prototypes in
> > > gjs
> > > > and I am trying to avoid of future issues, that's why I am exploring the
> > > > possibilities of gnome accessible technologies first.
> > >
> > > OK. For GNOME specifically, you need to use a toolkit that supports
> > > AT-SPI/ATK. Do anything else, and you're rolling your own for sure.
> > >
> > > I'm unaware whether any flavor of GNOME Javascript supports AT-SPI, or
> > > not. That's your threshold question if you're limiting yourself to this
> > > language. Webkit support is a great start, but insufficient, imo.
> > >
> > > Janina
> > >
> > >
> > > > I want app to be usable on linux or other free unix like systems ;) Mac
> > > or
> > > > Win clone is not intention of mine.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for input, any suggestions are more then welcomed ;)
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > 2016-11-26 0:17 GMT+01:00 Janina Sajka <janina rednote net>:
> > > >
> > > > > Michal Koudelka writes:
> > > > > > I need to make an application which is not just supposed to be
> > > accessible
> > > > > > but designed specifically for people with visual impairment so it
> > > should
> > > > > > rely heavily on using speech synthesiser and braille refreshable
> > > display.
> > > > > Your conclusion does not follow from your premise. This is illogical,
> > > > > i.e. you cannot assume that "people with visual impairment" all, or
> > > even
> > > > > predominently use either braille or screen reader technology. Some do,
> > > > > but it's actually a minority of users with visual impairments. There
> > > are
> > > > > far many more individuals who use their remaining vision with some kind
> > > > > of screen magnification, or even simply display attribute control.
> > > > >
> > > > > I strongly suggest your revisit the user scenarios and requirements of
> > > > > your application with your vendor. And, while doing so, you should
> > > > > explore why you actually need to control UI at this level. Why is
> > > > > following W3C guidance, specifically WCAG 2.0 and using ARIA 1.1 is
> > > > > insufficient. Perhaps you can answer this already, but it's not clear
> > > to
> > > > > me from your post that you've explored this. Frankly, I'm suspecting a
> > > > > beginner's mistake here, which would serve neither your vendor nor your
> > > > > userbase.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, are you writing exclusively for Linux? Or, are you unsure of how
> > > > > to handle Linux in a cross-platform application? If the latter, all the
> > > > > more reason to answer the questions above persuasively. The
> > > > > W3C specs mentioned are carefully designed to support cross platform
> > > > > content delivery and interaction. In the case of ARIA, they're even
> > > > > reliably testable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tip: You might want to look at the latest draft of the ARIA Authoring
> > > > > Practices Guide:
> > > > > http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I know I'm sounding critical, but I hope I'm actually helping you by
> > > > > better defining your problem and refining your focus appropriately.
> > > Good
> > > > > luck! We certainly do want more coders to be fluent with supporting
> > > a11y
> > > > > in their apps appropriately.
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
> > > > >                          sip:janina asterisk rednote net
> > > > >                  Email:  janina rednote net
> > > > >
> > > > > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org
> > > > >
> > > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > > > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> > > http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > > > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
> > >                          sip:janina asterisk rednote net
> > >                  Email:  janina rednote net
> > >
> > > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org
> > >
> > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures        http://www.w3.org/wai/apa