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Re: [jirka 5z com: Re: KDE 2.0 impressions]

hi

I emailed some gnome aliases earlier re a visual feedback proposal involving a 
CORBA server (see attached).  I also contacted the author of Xalf for his views.
The real problem centre on how to start/stop the visual feedback display for the 
following cases:

1) gnome apps.
   - I proposed making a call to start the Feedback from
   gnome-init_*()
   and making the call to stop the feedback from gtk_main()
   
   - there have been some reservations expressed about this..
   
2) non-gnome apps, and any app started from a panel, filemanager etc.
   - This involved using a binary wrapper to start the feedback display,
     and LD_PRELOAD to overload Xlib functions to end the display. An
     environmental variable is set with a unique id on starting the feedback.
     This id is then extracted and used by the overloaded Xlib func to stop
     the feedback.
     
     I don't think I understand what you're saying Havoc. Even if the            
     DESKTOP_LAUNCH_ID and X property are defined and set as you say, 
     wouldn't you still be using the LD_PRELOAD hack to end the feedback display
     for that client?
     
     
     
cheers
Mary



> Delivered-To: gnome-hackers gnome org
> Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:24:42 +0800 (WST)
> From: James Henstridge <james daa com au>
> To: Havoc Pennington <hp redhat com>
> Cc: George <jirka 5z com>, gnome-hackers gnome org
> Subject: Re: [jirka 5z com: Re: KDE 2.0 impressions]
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> X-BeenThere: gnome-hackers gnome org
> X-Loop: gnome-hackers gnome org
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
> List-Id: <gnome-hackers.gnome.org>
> 
> On 8 Nov 2000, Havoc Pennington wrote:
> 
> > 
> > George <jirka 5z com> writes: 
> > > So, could this maybe go into 1.4?
> > > 
> > 
> > Let's do it cleanly; define that the environment variable is called
> > DESKTOP_LAUNCH_ID or something, and define the name of the X property
> > to contain the launch ID on client windows (suggest using the _NET_
> > convention from the WM spec), maybe _NET_DESKTOP_LAUNCH_ID.  Then we
> > can get it implemented in toolkits and dump the LD_PRELOAD hack
> > eventually.
> 
> Would it be possible to add support for this in gnome-libs through an
> emission hook on the realise signal for the widget?  This could be done
> without adding a new API by setting up this hook inside
> gnome_init.  Alternatively, it could be done inside of gtk in a similar
> fashion.  This would instantly give support for all gnome or gtk
> applications.
> 
> The other option would be to do it through a gtk module, which avoids
> some of the symbol resolution slowdown caused by LD_PRELOAD and requires
> no modifications to gtk or gnome-libs. 
> 
> James.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> gnome-hackers mailing list
> gnome-hackers gnome org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-hackers

~ I speak for myself, not for my employer ~
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Mary Dwyer
Desktop Applications & Middleware Grp
Sun Microsystems Ireland
Tel: +353-1-8199222 (xt 19222)
email: mary dwyer ireland sun com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
--- Begin Message --- 
hi

there has been some talk on the mailing lists in the last week on this topic 
(see below), and I'd like to get involved in providing a more GNOME-specific
solution.

In brief, the idea is as follows:

- Create a Feedback server as an ORBit object, with an interface 
  responsible for starting and stopping the display of visual feedback
- The server would support a plug-in interface for displaying different types of 
  feedback e.g. a task-bar invisible window (as in Xalf) etc.
- On requesting server to start feedback display, client would register a unique
  id with the server. This id would be used when client requests server to stop
  feedback display.

The tricky part is where to make the calls to start and stop the feedback 
display.  
This mechanism would have to support launching of:
1. GNOME applications 
2. non-GNOME applications
3  applications (GNOME and non-GNOME) launched 'indirectly', eg from a panel

Suggestion is:

1.  Gnome apps 

    From gnome_init_*() :
    - make call to Feedback Server to start feedback.
    - register a GtkInitFunction that, when executed, will call 
      the Feedback Server to end feedback. 
      (This GtkInitFunction is executed during gtk_main()).
      

2.   Non-Gnome applications.
     
     - in order to make the call to the Feedback Server to start the feedback
       need to use a binary wrapper (I'll refer to it here as 'fbk' to avoid 
       confusion with references to Xalf).
       The binary makes the call to start the feedback and then forks
       and starts the application
       
       							Feedback Server
       						       -------------------
       %fbk applic  ----call to start feedback------>  | FeedbackStart() |
       	   |					       |		 |
       	   |					       | FeedbackStop()	 |
       	   |					       -------------------   
       	   |						           ^	
       	   |					 	           |
       	   |					call to stop feedback
       	   |					^
       	   V					|
       	 fork and				|
       	start applic --------------->  applic running
       	   		    |
       	   		    |
       	   		    v
       			 fbk exits
       			 
      - the call to stop the feedback could be made using LD_PRELOAD and 
        an overloaded Xlib function and LD_PRELOAD (similar to what Xalf does). 
        
3.    Applications launched from panel
	The gnome panel launches apps with a call to gnome_execute_async_*()
	in gnome-libs.  But, cannot assume that the app to be launched is a
	gnome application.  So would have to adapt solution no. 2 above, ie
	gnome_execute_*() could make a call to the fbk binary. 
	However, if the app to be launched is a gnome app then there would be
	a second call to start the Feedback from gnome_init_().  So the 
	Feedback Server would have to be able to handle such duplicate calls.
	


I am new to GNOME (BTW my name is Mary Dwyer and I work in Sun Microsystems in 
Ireland) and I'd like to get feedback (excuse the pun) criticisms, suggestions 
etc on this.I emailed Peter Astrand (author of the Xalf utility) at the end of 
last week to get his views on the idea.  And the emails below would indicate 
that people on these gnome aliases would be interested in this area? 

thanks in advance
cheers
Mary
	
	


  

> Delivered-To: gnome-private gnome org
> Subject: Re: KDE 2.0 impressions
> From: Iain <tigermilk btinternet com>
> To: mawarkus t-online de
> Cc: gnome-private gnome org
> Date: 28 Oct 2000 18:00:24 +0000
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> X-BeenThere: gnome-private gnome org
> X-Loop: gnome-private gnome org
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
> List-Id: <gnome-private.gnome.org>
> 
> 
> > Nice stuff: the "now loading" indicator in the task bar. I wonder
> > whether it only works when loading KDE applications? We should try to
> > cobble up something similar...
> > 
> 
> http://www.lysator.liu.se/~altic/projects/xalf/
> 
> does exactly that I think.
> The author or someone keeps asking can it be added to the main core get it 
packaged somehow
> but I've never seen any response from people.
> 
> iain
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> gnome-private mailing list
> gnome-private gnome org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-private


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From: "Guillermo S. Romero / Familia Romero" <famrom idecnet com>
To: gnome-gui-list gnome org, gnome-list gnome org
Subject: Xalf request to packagers and others
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Hi:

At the GNOME GUI list we have been discussing the splash screen
subject, and Xalf was proposed, after some talk that was describing
what Xalf already implements more or less. You see, reinventing the
wheel. ;]

I have been testing Xalf, and I would like to ask packagers to add it
to the optional group of GNOME apps, and by default, put it in the
basic install. No hard dependances (some people will not use it, so
please not another "Why I do need E?") but try to integrate more if it
is avaliable.

The other request, and for the record, is that anyone that had the
problem of users that click lots of times the same launcher cos the
app is slow to start, try it too and give feedback to the rest of
users.

If Xalf is not accepted (I am requesting this from a personal point of
view :] and everyone is free to do whatever he wants), at least this
item should find a mention in the FAQ, some will find it useful, that
is sure.

Xalf site is: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~altic/projects/xalf/

Maybe Xalf is not the best solution, and something new is done, but
IMO it is time to fix some UI problems, at least partially. And of
course, demostrate that GUI list is not just a place to talk for
fun. We keep on going with this and other subjects, of course, but I
do not want one of past time problems: lack of communication with the
rest of community.

Thanks for the attention, and to all those in GUI list for the job.

GSR
 

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~ I speak for myself, not for my employer ~
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Mary Dwyer
Desktop Applications & Middleware Grp
Sun Microsystems Ireland
Tel: +353-1-8199222 (xt 19222)
email: mary dwyer ireland sun com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


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