Re: Did GNOME go 1.0 too early?

[Daniel Burrows <Daniel_Burrows brown edu>]

On Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 10:25:35PM -0500, Jason Tackaberry was heard to say:
> I hope you don't read this as flame-bait.  Let's keep ourselves level
> headed. :)

  I actually agree with you mostly.  Can someone 'official' please explain to
me why it was released so early?  I can understand gnome-libs but why
everything?

> That said, I'm a bit worried about GNOME 1.0 being released too early.  I have
> to admit, gnome-libs and gnome-core seem to be quite good.  I haven't had many
> problems with the panel lately (except when trying to convert an edge panel to
> a corner panel, but not everyone has been able to reproduce this segfault).
> 

  gnome-libs is OK, but I've found gnome-core to be in need of a bit more
bug-checking.  Panel tends to be somewhat flaky, bad applets take it down,
gnome-pager needs..quite a bit more work..and it generally feels unfinished.
I give it two weeks to a month to completion--probably 2 weeks given the recent
rate of bugfixing around here.

> But gmc, while it's progressed _very_ impressively over the past month, is
> still very unstable for me (and many others, as I've seen in this list).
> Miguel has been fantastic with responding to bug reports, and I'm sure he is
> very swamped.  But, IMO, gmc is very important for a user-friendly desktop
> (that GNOME aims to be).  An unstable gmc will leave novices very dissappointed
> (because I don't think I'd be wrong to say it would be the most used part of
> GNOME, perhaps next to the panel).  I hate to pick on gmc (because I can't
> emphasize enough how amazing it has progressed over the last 2 months); there
> are many other parts of gnome that are rough around the edges and could
> probably use another month of cleaning.

  Yes.  It's improved incredibly but it needs much more work.  I can think of
a couple ways to consistently crash it off the top of my head (check my posts
here and to the BTS..btw..do any developers except the panel and gnome-media
people actualy *read* the BTS) and it's missing a lot of important features.

> I have no doubt in my mind that we won't eventually get a superior product.  I
> know the community won't succumb to the same pressures that commercial vendors
> do: releasing a product too early, and then be forced to release kludgey,
> hacked up fixes too early, until you've got layer upon layer of crap that you
> are now forced to support and extend.  While I think that the GNOME 1.0 release
> was a bit too early, I know development will still continue on the right track.
> 

  I hope so as well.  The main thing that concerns me is this scenario:

  A computer user (We'll call him Jesse B) hears about this Gnome thing that's
supposed to make Linux easy.  He hears that it's still in development and
unstable but it'll be cool when it is finally released.  Finally, he hears that
1.0 is released!  Great!  He goes and downloads it, works through the install,
and gets it up on his computer.  The panel has some visual quirks but he
ignores them while he's trying all the nifty features.  A few seconds later, his
file manager crashes because he clicked on a cancel button.  He tries again.
This time fiddling with the properties of an applet in the panel causes
everything to come to a crashing halt.  One last try fails when the control
center explodes.  JB then goes and tells everyone "This Gnome thing is a
horrible mess that will never fly.  Everyone (or at least, the Gnome target
base) immediately forms a mental connection "Gnome==Buggy" and quietly files
all further news about Gnome in a compartment marked "ignore", even after
Gnome becomes rock-solid.

  All those bugs are bugs that I have observed and posted--often several times--
often to the BTS and the mailing list.  Other than fixing them myself, I don't
know what else I can do, and I don't have time to fix every little glitch
someone adds to Gnome... :-(

> Linux (and also GNOME) is under tremendous media scrutiny.  This means that
> any tiny shortcomings will be amplified.  GNOME 1.0 can't and shouldn't be
> expected to be perfect, but little and obvious details that are usually
> corrected during the debugging phase will stand out quite a bit.  And I
> shouldn't have to say that once someone like Jesse Berst experiences his
> first segfault, he will immediately report that the whole thing is garbage.
> We're smart enough to ignore his rantings, but most of future Linux converts
> probably aren't.

  Yes.  Why wasn't Gnome given another couple of weeks, even, to
work out all the last kinks?  1.0 doesn't really have to be perfect but is
it asking too much that it not have blatant bugs?  I wish it could be just a
version number but the psychological impact is too great.

> Well, I think I've rambled on long enough.  Please don't misunderstand the
> point of this post.  This (perhaps pointlessly) verbose email was just to voice
> my concern that maybe Gnome was released a bit too early.  I tried not to sound
> discouraging in my words, because most of you donate your time to a truly
> excellent project.  I'm mostly interested in hearing if the developers feel
> that this release is a bit premature.

  Unfortunately, I'm not much of a developer.  I'm very interested, though, in
hearing the _reasons_ for this release, given the number of blatant bugs
here.  I will continue to use Gnome, but I am worried that 'normal users'
(whatever that means) will be scared off by the instability.  (Of course,
Windows doesn't scare them..but Gnome is not quite as stable as Windows in
a lot of ways..and people who use Linux often care about stability...)

  I remember that a few days ago someone posted to the list asking why Gnome
seemed to be heading towards a 1.0 response and was roundly shouted down.  The
argument seemed to be "the core utils are stable enough".  They must either be
using a different definition of "core" from me, or a different definition of
"stable".

  Daniel Burrows

-- 
Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual
way.  This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of
complaining.
		-- Jeff Raskin