Re: Some topics

[Dan Mueth <d-mueth uchicago edu>]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Erik Jarvi wrote:

[SNIP]
> > I think they really need to be both copyrighted and licensed.  In fact, if
> > we don't know who the copyright belongs to, then you can't really trust
> > the license IMO.  With sounds being passed around the net, one generally
> > doesn't know either of these accurately.  This is why I'd like to see the
> > copyright and license info as metadata inside the sound file if possible -
> > so it doesn't get lost.  This would generally have to be stored as a
> > "comment".  I'm not sure which audio formats support comments
> > though.  Does anybody know?
> 
> I've just been looking into this.  RIFF and AIFF (.wav and .aif) file formats
> support meta data.  These being the most popular. One way would be to put the
> license in as a Cue point. (Some times known as a Marker.) 
> 
> It looks like you can store strings in the headers of a .wav file. I've been
> reading the RIFF specs. Yikes!
[SNIP]

Ok.  If the format supports it, then we need (1) a tool which will allow
us to insert and edit the strings, and (2) a format for the
strings.  (2) can be as simple as just "Copyright 2000 Erik Jarvi under
Open Content License".  Or, it can be a nice XML-based metadata
system.  I think if we can find a tool which can add or edit a comment in
a .wav or .au file, even a simple command line script, we would be in good
shape here.

> > We could use the Open Content License (http://www.opencontent.org/).  This
> > is an "open source" type license instead of a "free" license, but I think
> > it is the best option available.  The "free" licenses like the GPL and the
> > GFDL are not really appropriate for sound/artwork.
> 
> I would say that the open content license is akin to the LGPL. And I'm a little
> uneasy about it. I don't have anything concrete against it, to me it seems
> vague. I would like to see a Free license for sounds. 
> 
> <ego>
> I wouldn't want any of my sounds to be stolen and end up in a non-Free product.
> Unless of course I relicense it. ;)
> </ego>

If this is important, then my understanding is that the OCL will not be
acceptable.

> Hmm, I was going to "fork" the GFDL, but it's not really forkable, the FSF owes
> it. Would it be impolite to fork the GFDL and then ask for a blessing?

I think you should email Richard Stallman about this first.

I wonder if we could use the GPL.  If the GPL is applicable to sounds
(which I'm not sure if it is or not), I'm not sure if it actually prevents
people from using your sound in a proprietary application, provided the
sound is unaltered.  Looking at the GPL, if the object is not modified, it
looks like the "source code" can be copied verbatim by anybody provided
the license is preserved.  So if I am not mistaken, a commercial
application could ship your sound in its original format along with the
app and then play it as part of the application.

> > > 3. Sound types
> > > 	What type of sound shall we include into a soundtheme
> > > 	-FX?
> > > 	-sounds from daily life (for example telephone ringing)?
> > > 	-voices associated  the dialogs?
> > > 	-from movies, TV or Radio? 
> > 
> > I think any of these would be fine except ones which have potential
> > copyright violations (movies, tv, and radio).  Does anybody know how "fair
> > use" applies to recorded sounds?  Is it legal to take a 3 second clip of
> > sound out of a movie and distribute it?  My guess is that it isn't, but I
> > don't know for sure.
> 
> I would say to be safe, if the sound or part of the sound is not original then
> it shouldn't be included.  The example of a telephone ringing could be
> considered original, think of the telephone as an instrument.

Yes.  Unless one is very careful to get permission by going through all
the proper legal motions.

> Einsturzende Neubauten would be an example. Negativeland pushes the copyright
> issues. (But NL encourges "sampling" of their music. :) 

Einsturzende Neubauten - I wonder if they would let us borrow some of
their sounds for a desktop theme.  We could have a whole line of
industrial themes :)

> > > 4. Sound dimension
> > > 	Is there
> > > 	-a limit of X MB for soundtheme?
> > > 	-a limit of X Kb for each sound?
> > 
> > In general, I would say "no".  However, when it comes to packaging things
> > this may be different.  For example, we could have:
> > 
> > 1) gnome-audio - this just has the default GNOME sound theme
> > 
> > 2) gnome-audio-themes - this has a small set(5?) of alternate GNOME sound
> >  themes which have a reasonable size limit so that a person could download
> > it over a modem. Presumably distributions will choose to ship this.
> > 
> > 3) gnome-audio-themes-extra - this is where any obscenely large themes
> > or any themes which are not considered to be in the "best 5 themes" group
> > go.  Distributions may not want to ship this due to its large size or the
> > lack of a real need for more than 6 themes for most people.  People with
> > lots of bandwidth who like to play with their systems will enjoy these.
> 
> Or just (sub?)package each theme separately?

Yes.


Dan