Re: [GnomeMeeting-list] Vertical vs Horizontal

[Christian Rose <menthos menthos com>]

[Please note: I know this issue is resolved, but I still want to correct
some wrong statements]


sön 2002-02-03 klockan 11.58 skrev Damien Sandras:
> The vertical toolbar is a way to prevent to have a wide GM, with a small height, what is not
> beautiful at all. But it is a matter of taste.

No. Not all matters are a matter of taste. Some aspects of usability can
be regarded as a matter of taste or the "current fashion", but many are
carefully written policies based on a lot of usability studies. It's
silly and wrong to dismiss all of this science as "a matter of taste".


> Some people prefer Lamborghini, some prefer Ferrari,
> and others like both or dislike both. This is life. I agree that for a matter of taste, some
> people do not like to have a vertical toolbar, but don't tell me that it breaks useability,
> or at least proof it to me. I do not understand how having a button on the left instead
> of on the top could lead to a bad useability.

I've carefully expressed this in detail on this list. It breaks
consistency
(http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/draft_hig/toolbars.html):

"The effectiveness of toolbars is increased by maintaining a level of
consistency between different applications. The toolbar is one of the
first parts of your application that a user will see the first time they
run it, so by providing a toolbar that looks familiar to them, you can
immediately make them feel comfortable about using your application."

More critical aspects of the vertical toolbar design is that the
tooolbar takes a different shape from that most users of other GNOME
applications are used to, and even more problematic is the displacement
so that the toolbar is no longer directly beneath the menu bar.


> However, some Gnome programs have a bad usability for evident reasons.

Yes. But this is about GnomeMeeting. Pointing to other bad, or worse,
applications is not an excuse. This is about GnomeMeeting.


> I still don't know what to do with the vertical toolbar. I'll make screenshots, keeping the
> prefs button, and see how it looks like.

I have studied your improved screenshot (thanks for doing that
screenshot), I will comment on it in a later mail.


> There other decisions to take. For example,
> I should comply with the Gnome Preferences to show or to not show labels on toolbars.

Yes, this should probably be done.


> However, most users don't know that it is a general option and most programs like galeon, balsa,
> ... do not respect that general setting. I wonder if I will get complaints or not about it.

This should be added to the FAQ. :)


> Believe me, I'm trying to make the best good-looking application, and the most usable.
> For example, the preferences in GnomeMeeting are fully compliant with the standards, and 
> GnomeMeeting is the only application to fully comply -even Galeon, Christian, do not comply
> to the general rules defined by the Gnome Usability Team-.

Excuse me? I'm not a Galeon hacker. I'm the Galeon translation
coordinator just like I am with GnomeMeeting, but that's about it. I
don't understand how one can state that I don't comply with the HIG.

But if you mean me personally and my body, I can assure you that I don't
have any vertical toolbars. I have no toolbars at all. ;-)


> My conclusion, is that I sent a mail  to know what people prefer, and it resulted in a war
> about toolbars... It makes no sense... Do I prefer a red or yellow car ? Ohhh I prefer a red
> car because it is more usable!

This is nonsense. You are dismissing a whole science because you don't
understand it, and act as like it was some random matter of taste
mumo-jumbo that you can dismiss alltogether by doing silly jokes. It is
not, and you only make yourself look dumb when doing that. I thought
that you would know that dismissing any science with no knowledge about
it is a dumb thing to do, since you have an academic background.


> That was the last joke of this thread, see you all on the channel this afternoon guys!

It wasn't fun.


> If I get help, 0.13 should be ready for the FOSDEM in 2 weeks. And I think that again, thanks
> to Miguel and Christian, it will be possible ...

Heh, thanks!


Christian