[GnomeMeeting-list] Latest IRC summary regarding GM usability

[Christian Rose <menthos menthos com>]

Here is the latest IRC discussion. I've removed only non-usability
related messages. calum is Calum Benson, one of the authors of the HIG.

Quick summary:
As with almost all arguments and fights, later it turns out that
everyone was right. In this case it can be summarized as:
"vertical toolbars in general are problematic and harder for users to
scan than horizontal toolbars, but in the case of GnomeMeeting the
suggested vertical toolbar is very small with only very few entries and
combined with the fact that the GnomeMeeting is very small it might not
be a problem".


Christian



--> calum (~cb114949 charon Sun COM) has joined #gnomemeeting
* calum couldn't resist joining when he saw "usability" in the topic :)
--- d_away is now known as damien
--- damien gives channel operator status to calum
<damien> calum: you here ?
<calum> dmaien: yes I am, sorry, wasn't paying attention :)
<calum> s/dmaien/damien
<damien> calum: I have some minutes before going back to work
<damien> let's say 15 minutes
<damien> calum: do you know what happens ?
<damien> calum: in fact, I am trying to comply with usability advices of
different persons
<damien> I discussed with many persons and everybody has a different
advice :)
<calum> damien: menthos told me a little, but not much...
<damien> look at : linuxzone.ath.cx/test1.png
<damien> it was my idea for an useable GnomeMeeting (except that some
buttons at the bottom should be removed)
<damien> and look at : linuxzone.ath.cx/test4.png
<damien> it is the idea of menthos for usability
<calum> ok, looking at them now...
<damien> calum: the main problem is that I have a vertical toolbar, to
maximize used space
<damien> calum: and that some think it is a bad idea, others agree with
me, that if icons are understandable, it is not a usability problem at
all, but a matter of taste
<damien> calum: I think that you are doing some research in this area,
so your advice would be of great help
<calum> Well, I can probably give you another opinion, but I can't
promise it will be very scientific :)
<calum> damien: So in test1.png, would there really only be three
buttons at the bottom?
<damien> calum: tell me : has the position of the toolbar anything to do
with usability?
<damien> calum: I plan to put those 3 buttons on the left toolbar
<calum> damien: ok
<damien> calum: and add a text entry below the video to display the name
of the person displayed in the video 
<damien> calum: the thing is that I find it more "spiffy" to have the
vertical toolbar for the tools and shortcuts
<damien> calum: the buttons on the left are tools
<damien> (LDAP browser, Chat window, ...)
<roger> aah So the icon with the two heads is for the chat box?
<damien> roger: yes, but there should be another icon
<roger> ok
<damien> roger: it is an icon that I found in my pixmaps dir ;) Jakub
will draw a new one
<damien> calum: any thoughts ?
<calum> damien: Well, it goes against the advice in our GNOME UI
guidelines, but I think your vertical toolbar idea works a little better
in this case, just because it makes better use of the space...
<damien> calum: that is what I am thinking too
<damien> calum: the problem is that the video size is fixed by the ITU
recommendation
<calum> damien: I see...
<damien> calum: any other ideas ?
<damien> calum: I think that the handle is against the guidelines too
<damien> roger: thanks a lot for this, really...
<damien> roger: I hope that 0.13 will be a good release
<calum> damien: We don't really have any guidelines on handles yet, so
you're probably safe :)
<damien> calum: are you doing research on usability ?
<damien> calum: oh nice :)
<damien> calum: what about the idea to move the icons below in the left
toolbar and add the entry with the name of the remote ?
<calum> damien: That sounds fine to me too
<damien> calum: ok, another thing
<-- roger (~roger m137-mp1-cvx1c lee ntl com) has left #gnomemeeting
<damien> calum: when you right click on the video
<damien> calum: there is a menu that popups
<damien> calum: to switch between local / remote and to change the Zoom
of the picture
<damien> calum: what is best :
<damien> * keeping the video preview in the toolbar to display video
when not being in a call ?
<damien> or
<damien> * removing it from the toolbar and adding it to the right click
menu ?
<damien> in "usability" terms...
<calum> damien: Hmm, i guess that really depends how frequently it is
used... but I think I prefer the idea of keeping it in the toolbar
<damien> calum: ok, nice :)
<damien> calum: seth did not agree about the vertical toolbar... What is
your idea : is that kind of thing a usability problem or not ?
<calum> damien: I think the main "problem" is that it will look
different from other apps, if they follow our guidelines...
<damien> but is it acceptable ?
<calum> dmaien: Something like test5.png is a bit more "compliant",
although I would swap the top and bottom toolbars
<damien> calum: like test6.png ? ;)
<calum> Oh yes, hadn't got to that one yet :)
<damien> hehe
<damien> but following you, choosing test6.png or test1.png is not that
important in usability terms ?
<damien> either I choose to fully comply
<damien> either I choose to maximise the used space...
<damien> Am I right?
<calum> Yes, that's about right... I suppose if you wanted to please
everybody, you could add a menu item to the "Voir" menu  that let you
quickly swap between the two configurations, but make test6.png the
default...
<damien> calum: but I prefer test1.png ;)
<damien> calum: my final question, will be :
<damien> imagine that Im using the vertical toolbar as default because
it makes better use of space
<damien> is it a real problem about usability ?
<calum> damien: With such a small toolbar, I don't really think it would
be a big problem
<damien> calum: even if I add 3 toggles to it?
<calum> damien: Yes, probably even then.  Any more than that and it
might be more of a problem, though, it's just not quite as easy for
users to visually scan a toolbar vertically than horizontally.
<calum> s/than/as
<damien> calum: thanks for your helpfull advice!
<calum> No problem.  Actually that's another thing that makes your
toolbar a little non-standard... the actual contents-- what menu items
are currently on the File menu?
<damien> calum: no one
<damien> calum: I planned to add a "Tools menu"
<damien> for chat window, and Ldap browser
<damien> do you think that the file menu would be a better place ?
--- You are now known as menthos
<menthos> Hi
<calum> No, Tools is probably better, or maybe a Windows menu... they
certainly don't sound like things anyone would look for on a File menu
<calum> hi menthos
<damien> calum: ok we agree on that too :)
<damien> hi menthos!
* menthos read the backlog
<damien> menthos: good readin, I just sent a summary of the key points
<damien> calum: I really thank you to have come here and answer all my
questions
<calum> damien: Don't thank me, thank menthos :)
<The_Nalf> hi menthos
<damien> menthos: thanks to have invited calum here :)
* calum hates applications like this because they can never really
conform to a lot of the guidelines we write  :/
<damien> calum: I think that kenneth mailed you too yesterday :)
<damien> calum: I think that gnomemeeting is a real issue in some
cases... unfortunately, it is very special...
<damien> calum: menthos revealed the whole usability problem, and it is
far more important for me than before
<calum> damien: Oh yes, maybe it was him after all, I forget now  :/  I
haven't got my head around Monday morning yet...
* calum checks email to see who really sent him here...
<damien> calum: fortunately, common sense is often sufficient to conform
to the guidelines, as tehy are logical in many situations ...
<menthos> calum: I think it must have been kenneth
<calum> menthos: Yes it was, you're right  :)
<calum> damien: Well, sometimes... but every time I test what I think is
a good design with a user, I still usually find something I didn't
expect...
<damien> well then, thanks go to kenneth for the mail he sent you and
thanks to menthos for the fact that Im more concerned by usability than
before... (a simple look at the old GUI can confirm this ;)
<damien> calum: I had some problems with "instant apply" too, some
headaches about some groups of settings :)
<damien> calum: but now, everything is ok, except that we will have to
wait for Gnome2 and the new Orbit to be able to react to gconftool
changes and update the GUI...
<menthos> damien: I obviously misinterpreted your semi-last mail that
you would ignore seth's mockup without even looking at it... sorry about
that
<calum> damien: I'm sure it will all work perfectly :)
<damien> menthos: the last mail was just trying to say "I'm so tired
because I spent too much time without any result that I like and I
should concentrate more on new functionnalities for the FOSDEM" but it
was early and the mail was not clear enough, I agree :)
<damien> calum: I hope so :) I will probably contact you again for ideas
<damien> some usability people gave me excellent ideas 
<damien> for example a red-cross on the the audio channel and video
channel toggles when they are "muted"
<damien> Ill apply that
<damien> or the unique button idea for the connect/disconnect button ->
menthos
<damien> that button on the left of the URL -> alp, #usability
<damien> well, interesting things
<damien> Im going to go back to work
<damien> thanks to all!
--- damien is now known as d_away