Re: [GnomeMeeting-list] Warning - Read the First couple of Paragraph Before you Decide if You want To read The rest

[Damien Sandras <dsandras seconix com>]

Hi George and all the others,


>From my point of view, the main problem still is that hardware vendors
do not really support Linux. If they did, they would provide the drivers
themselves.

Now, from the Ekiga point of view, I agree that our reports are in
general related to 3 types of problems :
1) NAT issues, we are doing our best to circumvent the problem 
2) ALSA issues. ALSA is still very complex to setup and the latest
release has a critical bug that crashes Ekiga. It doesn't necessarily
crashes other software, simply because Ekiga is not using the CD quality
sample rate to play and record from the device. The complexity of the
setups should be handled by the various distributions out there.
3) Webcam issues. Some drivers are of very good quality, some others
not. Again we could blame hardware vendors as well as Linux
distributions.



Le jeudi 25 mai 2006 à 17:04 -0700, George Boyd a écrit :
> This messages is very long if that bothers you delete it now. It is also
> not specifically dealing with Ekiga. However it directly affects it. And
> knowing the Linux community, I expect to get flamed even if you agree
> with me. If you want to flame me, then email me directly and keep it off
> the list. I know that sounds hypocritical since I am posting this to the
> list, but so be it. I need to vent. Damien is the only one that can
> flame me and I'll read it. All others will go into the garbage can.
> 
> I have been using and playing with Linux since it was first released to
> the world. In 1963, I believe it was, Kernigan and Ritchie working for
> Bell labs developed Xenix, later to become Unix, for the sole purpose of
> having a means for engineers to be able to collaborate with each other.
> SCO picked it up and ended up being the "standard" for the Unix
> operating system which was easy to do because they were the only game in
> town. Then, Linus Travaldis (I hope I'm spelling his name correctly)
> comes along and presents us all with a remarkable concept of an
> exceptional beginning to a REAL operating system that was open source
> and free to all that wanted to continue developing on it. Through the
> years different groups decided to make their own packages ignoring any
> kind of standards. Then the war began. There was Slackware, BSD,
> Mandrake, Red Hat, etc. etc. In my opinion Red Hat came out on top
> because they were concerned about standards compliance and now there is
> Fedora which is within itself a very remarkable concept. But the
> problems still exist because developers are still having to work their
> tails off to support all of the different distributions, a daunting and
> nearly impossible task. 
> 
> Then came the war over the X desktops. When I first starting using the
> "modern" desktops, I chose KDE because Gnome was still having problems
> with crashes. It was because of KDE's insolent and arrogant attitude
> that I finally told them to go shove it and I went to using Gnome
> anyway, the best move I ever made. Again because of their efforts to
> comply with accepted standards. Even as mature as Linux is today, the
> "standards" conflicts still exists and this is what brings me to the
> point in all this rambling. So many people writing so many non-standard
> programs and distributions and some simply because they have no idea how
> to take advantage of a real multiuser, multitasking, and multithreaded
> operating system. So, naturally they blame their problems on the Linux
> itself trying to satisfy the people that purchased their distributions.
> 
> That point now brings me to this one. Ekiga, a wonderful program written
> by a remarkable person with a team of the most patient and helpful
> people I've had the pleasure to have been associated with. But their
> hands are also tied trying to support all these ridiculous "off the
> wall" distributions and "outside" programmers that they have to depend
> on for standards and usability. I know this next statement will anger a
> lot of people, but the biggest culprit is ALSA, NOT Ekiga. What is wrong
> with you guys? I don't know the relationship that you and Damien have
> developed, but please get your act together. Listen to Damien, he knows
> what he's talking about. At least when the developer of PWC, PWCX
> chickened out, someone was gracious enough to rekindle it and did a
> wonderful job with it.
> 
> Believe me, I do know the frustrations that you guys are going through
> with all the ridiculous amount of off the wall distributions and and in
> some cases incompetent programmers and users, and I admit I fall in the
> later category. But I'm really getting upset about a lot of the things I
> have read on this list through the years from users who won't listen and
> programmers who won't cooperate in the spirit that is Linux. 
> 
> Damien and his team are working their tails off to bring us a wonderful
> program and their only getting compensated by others complaints. Give
> them a break ... PLEASE, Help, don't hurt. If you can't take
> constructive criticism, don't ask the question. They are working so hard
> to try to stay with compliant standards that I really believe that it
> will be their efforts that turns this whole problem around. If you want
> junk, run windose. If you want state of the art, let Damien and his team
> persuade and prod the rest of the Linux community to do what is right.
> 
> Again, Flame if you want, but do not put it on the list. Hypocritical,
> maybe. But so be it. Learn and do your part to help and I will do the
> same. I'm sure that you as users don't want to lose what we have because
> of other peoples ego's.
> 
> Damien, I do realize that most of this should probably have been put on
> a different list and I apologies in advance. But the work you and your
> team is doing is vital to bringing forth the compliance that is so
> necessary. And as the saying goes "You're a better man then me Gunga
> Den" I would have thrown my hands up in disgust a long time ago. And
> please let me know if this was an inappropriate posting. If So, I
> promise I won't do it again ;-)
> 
> George Boyd.
> SIP :geboyd53 ekiga net
> 
> 
> 
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 _      Damien Sandras
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