Re: New 'GObject' as base for GtkObject?

[Owen Taylor <otaylor redhat com>]

Tim, 

I know you've taken a dislike ;-) to GtkObject now and are opposed
to splitting it out of GTK+ for that reason, but I don't think this
is a valid line of reasoning.

1) Yes, Gtkbject is meant as an object system for a widget toolkit, 
   and I'd like to keep the useful bits of that specialization, but
   people seem to be finding it useful for other projects _in that form_. Some
   places that I know GtkObject is used for non-gui purposes:

    gnome-pilot
    GIMP
    Bonobo
    GStreamer

   None of these are trivial applications.  While GtkObject may not
   be ideal for all purposes, it seems to 
   work reasonably well for doing large-granualarity C-based
   object system. 

2) We cannot expect people to learn and use TWO C-based object
   and type systems in the same applications. So people are
   going to use GtkObject for "inappropriate purposes" whether
   you like it or not.

3) The improvements that you have made to GtkObject fall into
   various categories:

   a) Improvements that are possible in a backwards compatible
      way. (E.g. interfaces, planned for GTK+ 1.4.)

   b) Improvments that are not possible in a backwards compatible
      way but we need to make anyways to GTK+. (E.g., improvements
      to the argument system)

   c) Improvments that would have been nice to put into GTK+
      from the start but can't be done now without causing 
      horrible breakage. (More sane refcounting, perhaps.)

   d) Improvements that might be desirable in general, but are
      not desirable for GTK+. 

  I'm very unconvinced that once the a) and b) improvements are made,
  that most people would care about the difference between GtkObject and
  your ideal system. After all, people seem to be reasonably happy using GtkObject
  right now.

So saying "forget GtkObject, use BseObject" carries no weight for
me. It isn't a long-term viable solution. 

Maybe you aren't saying that - maybe you are just saying "GtkObject
isn't ready yet". But if that is what you are saying then I'll
challenge "if not now, when?"

What is your timeline for improving GtkObject to the point you would
feel comfortable with people using it for non-GUI purposes? Is there a
reason why this couldn't be done now, and the improvments made as part
of the separate library?

Regards,
                                        Owen