Re: What should and should not go into gtk...

[Vlad Harchev <hvv hippo ru>]

On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Luke Holden wrote:

> (sorry for cross posting, but I need the input of some of the people on the
> gtk-devel list...)
> 
> Derek Simkowiak wrote:
> > 	Mac, MS-Windows, and Gnome support different MIME types.  It MAY
> > be the place of the filesel widget to display the appropriate mime icon.
> 
> but THIS is gtk+.. not gnome. It should be GNOMES place to do this type of
> thing..
> 
> > -> We can easily figure out things like:
> > -> Sockets
> > -> Symbolic links
> > -> normal data files,
> > -> executables,
> > -> block devices,
> > -> directories,
> > -> character devices
> > -> FIFO's.
> > -> non readable files/directories.
> > 	These are not mime types, but just different filesystem file
> > types.  This is how KDE/Qt does it.
> 
> Yes I know. My point is, we can provide at least SOME level of information
> to the user via icon types. Besides, QT, like gtk+ is more of a foundation.
> Not a desktop environment.
> 
> > -> Unless there is real mime support in GTK I don't think we
> > should worry about
> > -> about mime types. Of course, unless you want to introduce that
> > sort of thing
> > -> into gtk to begin with.
> > 	Well, that's the question.  Gnome has an infrastructure to deal
> > with MIME types.  My current proposal is to look for the Gnome (mc.keys)
> > file, and if that's not found, fall back to built-in mime types and icons.
> 
> But THIS is not gnome. Gnome will have a file selector that is capable of
> handling all of these things (probably using nautilus)
> 
> > 	We'll need to deal with MIME types for the built-in filters
> > anyhow, so it may make sense to come up with a complete MIME API for the
> > widget.
> 
> Maybe built in filters is a bad idea. The user just wants to select/save a
> file. I do like the feature, but we have to think about things. What is
> appropriate at THIS level. Maybe we should also write a gnome based file
> selection widget when we are done with this, that will take advantage of all
> the technologies provided by gnome. (Like a TOTALLY bonobo'ized file
> selector..)
> 
> >	If the MIME types show up with certain icons in the file manager,
> > then it only makes sense to have the show up with those icons in the file
> > selector.  That's why I'm leaning towards the
> > look-for-gnome-else-fall-back-to-internal-types method.
> 
> But we are not gnome. If the user ONLY uses gtk (and not gnome) then odds
> are, they aren't going to be using the fancy file manager. They wont have
> mime support and they wont have a lot of things that are provided by a
> 'Desktop Environment'. In this case, the user needs a decent file selector
> for just finding/saving files.
> 
> Like I said, there are some good ideas here and maybe we are trying to focus
> at the wrong level. We should have something simple for gtk... And maybe
> design a brand spanking new, extendable file selector for gnome. It could
> follow a similar api to allow application developers easy portability
> between gtk and gnome.
> 
> I do believe the gtk maintainers would agree with this. Gtk is just a
> foundation for higher level stuff. Therefore, we should probably try
> avoiding the high level stuff to begin with. If we want gnome functionality,
> we use gnome .. that's why it was designed in the first place :)
> 
> However, maybe we can provide a level of extendibility in the gtk file
> selector that will allow us to easily put in GNOME components from the GNOME
> side of things.
> 
> Someone earlier mentioned gmodules..

 Yes, I've mentioned. Please consider it again.

 I just don't get - why don't you stick to gmodules for loadable
fileselectors? All you problems of choosing icons and fileselector preferences
go away - these problems become problems of the authors of custom fileselector
widgets. Fileselectors than won't be tied to gtk at all (and won't suffer from
feature freezes, etc).
 Even now you, members of this list, begin to hesitate what's better -
amiga-like or mac-like, etc. Write both of them and allow user to select the
one s/he likes, not the one you've preferred here! Please don't be that
simple-minded. Follow unix way!
 
> If we could drop in the extra functionality FROM the gnome environment
> (read, the ui libs) that would be perfect. We would not have to rewrite all
> the code for both gtk and gnome. It would also allow us to do things like
> mime types (Again, mime types would be a functionality added on through the
> use of gnome).
> 
> 
> (to the gtk developers) What do you gtk folks think?
> 

 Best regards,
  -Vlad