Re: Check/Radio buttons [was Re: 1.2 theme properties / 2.0 default theme]

[Joel Becker <jlbec evilplan org>]

On Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 05:42:07PM -0500, Owen Taylor wrote:
>  - Having check/radio buttons share a color scheme and appearance
>    with entries makes interfaces look more attractive; since
>    the entry background color is present in more places to
>    tie things together.

	I'd have to disagree here, becuase I find this scheme one of the
most disjoint things in the win9x style ui.  The win9x ui isn't
completely terrible, but these particular items have always felt out of
place to me, as they are not entries, and the white is rather weird in
fields of grey.  You can't type into them, just click.  I am, of course,
one person with an opinion, so take that with a grain or two.

>  - Unlike most other ways of drawing things, there is a fairly
>    obvious physical interpretation of the Windows style. Especially
>    for the check, where we are used to checks is drawn on
>    a piece of paper.

	Again, I don't see that following.  I don't know that I've ever
associated the white background with a piece of paper.  I've recently
had to work up UI elements for these type of widgets in HTML.  The Motif
widgets that Netscape embeds into the layout are just terrible (my
stuff can be seen at http://www.jlbec.org/test/ui.html).  Here we were
going for a look and feel unique our product.  I'm not saying that this
style is perfect for GTK+.  But a style that is obvious is certainly
possible, and I don't think the windows one fits.

> > I'm not mad on the gradient either, but it would be interesting to see
> > what a selected radio button would look like if its gradient was
> > reversed-- i.e. to make it look as though it was pushed-in.  (Yes, I
> > know I could just try it myself in GIMP, but I don't have the energy
> > right now!)
> 
> It would look a lot like the current GTK+ buttons - there wouldn't
> be enough visual distinction with the small area. You need to add
> some sort of extra indicator in the active state.

	I think there can be enough distinction.  The ThinIce
radio/check buttons I think work.  The motif ones (and the current GTK+
motif-style ones) are terrible, especially that diamond.  This can be
improved.

> One common technique, which I believe comes from the NeXT is to draw
> them like buttons when unselected, and in a style like the windows
> style when selected. I think this is pretty bizarre looking, but
> it may be effective.

	That seems a bit painful.  I'd be wary of it too.

> Another techique is to draw some sort of check floating over the
> button when selected. This also looks bizzare to me, but also
> may be effective. This is essentially the techninque that Arlo
> used in his mockup.

	I'd note that the MacOS style for MacOS 8/9 uses this approach,
and I haven't heard any complaints about it.  Not only is the Macintosh
targeted at any users (not just "coming from windows"), but it has a
pretty good reputation for being the best environment for new users.
Apple has spent millions on UI research over the past 15 years, and that
has to say something.

Joel

-- 

"Well-timed silence hath more eloquence than speech."  
         - Martin Fraquhar Tupper

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