Re: [PATCH] GtkMessageBox should set empty window title by default

["Kalle Vahlman" <kalle vahlman gmail com>]

On 2/21/06, Martyn Russell <martyn imendio com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-02-21 at 12:15 +0200, Kalle Vahlman wrote:
> > On 2/21/06, Tim Janik <timj imendio com> wrote:
> > > On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Jaap A. Haitsma wrote:
> > >
> > > > Still nobody responding sofar :-(
> > > >
> > > > It's a three line patch
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Could somebody please review the patch at
> > > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=323316
> > > >
> > > > I haven't had a response on the patch I attached in bugzilla in the last
> > > > two months.
> > >
> > > i really think the HIG is seriously misguided here.
> >
> > Don't you mean misguid_ing_?-)
> >
> > > every window should
> > > possibly have a title for obvious reasons (identification when cycling
> > > windows, for identification by the window manager, to allow titles/tooltips
> > > in window lists, to give the user an identification for shaded mode, etc).
> > >
> > > in the pointed to section, the HIG seems to think of alerts as a temporary
> > > borderless window (much like a tooltip) which the user has to answer before
> > > he can (continue) to do any other task.
> >
> > Isn't it? If it's not crucial for the application, it should not be an
> > alert or at least not in it's own window (as the HIG recommends,
> > alerts should only be used if data loss or other serious problems are
> > imminent).
>
> I completely agree with Tim here. What if you have 10 dialogs all pop up
> with no title and one of them happens to be an important one from
> another application?

If you have 10 dialogs popping all over the place, there's more wrong
in the world than just suggesting empty titles ;)

> It makes it harder to know when cycling through
> them as Tim says.

You shouldn't have to cycle through them, that's my point. Either you
cycle the parent windows (where the popup will be on top) or it will
be the only window and then IMO it could have an title (as I stated).

> > They should be application modal, and kept above their parent so as
> > not to be lost. They should _not_ be visible in window lists and I
> > don't really see why should they ever be shaded either...
>
> I disagree, I think modal dialogs have very limited use. Modal dialogs
> should ONLY be used when the whole app is waiting for input IMO. That is
> rarely the case.

That should be _always_ the case with alerts. If it's not that urgent
and devastating, don't use an alert, notify the user somewhere else.

> You only have to use Microsoft Outlook to understand
> why modal dialogs are a bad idea. It means you can't visit information
> from other windows/dialogs in the application that might be important in
> responding to the modal dialog.

That's bad application design, not fault in modal dialogs.

> If you want them to remain on top of their parents, you should make the
> window a transient.

Yes, alerts should be transient to their parent _and_ modal.

> I think the HIG should be amended here, I think having no title is just
> uninformative and just not aesthetic IMO.

The point is not to repeat the message of the dialog, which will
contain more details than the title.

--
Kalle Vahlman, zuh iki fi
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