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Re: [orca-list] the speakupmodified dists from speakupmodified.org

Disagree all you like.  The facts speek for themselves.  Ask around and find
out how many people use Emacs or Emacspeak.  It's depressingly few.  Compare
that to how many use Gedit and Libre Office.  A simple poll on any list you
like should suffice to give you an idea.  I'm an avid Emacsoid myself and I
wish it were otherwise.  I've even gone so far as to spend several hours of
my time writing an introductory guide to it for novice users of Linux in an
effort to increase the user base somewhat.  People just seem to find it
easier to master Libre Office and Gedit than they do Emacs.  Part of the
reason is that unconventional interface you mentioned.  It introduces
complexity and difficulty or the perception thereof.  The harder something
is to master, the fewer people will want to master it.  Their need for the
software has to be high enough to justify the extra time and effort.  If
they find out there's something out there that does the same thing but with
less effort on their part, they're gone.  The only thing that will
counteract this phenomenon is if they are required to use it by some outside
entity like their job or something like  that.

Alex M
-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list-bounces gnome org [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On
Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:56 AM
To: 'orca-list'
Subject: Re: [orca-list] the speakupmodified dists from speakupmodified.org

I don't agree that the Emacs learning curve is so steep it can only be
mastered by a few. It doesn't use the the standard conventions found in a
lot of Windows and GUI applications, but that's true of a lot of the
applications embraced by the blind, especially on Linux. To me, it just
comes down to whether it's worth climbing that learning curve, but that's
true for all applications.

On 09/07/12 08:07, Alex Midence wrote:

How would the GUI stuff interfere?  Ubuntu comes with all the gui 
bells and whistles you could want and yet, it has a talking installer.  
And, the reason they don't make Xemacs the default is that people 
wouldn't be able to use it as easily as they can LIbre Office or Open 
Office.  The learning curve for Emacs is too steep for adoption by 
more than a small specialized and commited user base.  For the types 
that just want to get in there and get things done coming at the 
system cold, it's a major turnoff.  That stuff has to be included in 
there.  I don't think it's the GUI stuff.  I think it's more that it 
just is not a priority for a lot of distributions or that it just 
doesn't get that much attention.  Besides, the GUI stuff isn't a 
factor in Speakup modified installations with software speech.  
There's absolutely no GUI on a Debian Business card iso.  It's a real

slimmed down bit of Linux and it is pure text.


Alex M



-----Original Message-----
From: Jude DaShiell [mailto:jdashiel shellworld net]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 2:51 AM
To: Alex Midence
Cc: Thomas Ward; orca-list
Subject: Re: [orca-list] the speakupmodified dists from 
speakupmodified.org

It's all the G.U.I. stuff that gets put on systems.  The openoffice 
suite with all of its dependencies is one piece that can be stripped 
from initial distribution and added in later.  Probably xemacs could 
replace openoffice at a huge space savings too.  Probably not so many 
dependencies and most of the functionality of openoffice will be there 
too. On Sun, 8 Jul 2012, Alex Midence wrote:


You are absolutely right.  I'd forgotten about the talking Arch 
option.  To me, Debian's example is the most impressive.  The 
business card sized iso which is like 30 or 40 megs or something like 
that has software speech built in to it.  goes to show you that it 
doesn't take up much space on an image and that it's most likely 
something else that prevents more distributions from making this option

available.


Alex M



On 7/8/2012 4:14 PM, Jude DaShiell wrote:

Add archlinux to that list please.  There's a talkingarch version 
that had espeak added to it. On Sun, 8 Jul 2012, Alex Midence wrote:


The only distros I know of that have speakup with software speech 
functionality out of the box are Debian and grml.

Alex M

On 7/8/2012 4:24 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Mattias,

To the best of my memory yes. The distributions from the Speakup 
Modified website are only configured for hardware synths. I'm not 
aware of any speakup modified distributions that use ESpeakup or 
something like that for software TTS. :D

On 7/7/12, mattias <mj mjw se> wrote:

will them only work with hardware tts?

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Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
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_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.ht
ml The FAQ is at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out 
how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp




----------------------------------------------------------------
Windows Pants: made entirely of patches on patches each with a 
picture of a Microsoft Vacuum Cleaner; a computer mouse, or a dollar

sign.


Jude <jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net> 
<http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html>







----------------------------------------------------------------
Windows Pants: made entirely of patches on patches each with a picture 
of a Microsoft Vacuum Cleaner; a computer mouse, or a dollar sign.

Jude <jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net>
<http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html>


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out 
how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp




--
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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