Re: [orca-list] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Jace Kattalakkis <khalfang1366 gmail com>]

Gnome admins should, given there are 100% clashes with Discourse's built 
in keys, and Orca's keys as an example. I can spin up a Discourse 
instance with the very latest code and look at the hotkeys. I see quite 
a few that conflict with Orca's nav keys as a brief example.


I shouldn't have to turn structural navigation off to avoid trying to 
navigate Discourse being read as oh, you want to go to that combo box, 
instead of oh, you want to go to Discourse's list of categories?

Don't get me wrong. I like what Discourse is doing with their hotkeys 
and how it's set up. BUt it does not play smoothly with Orca at all, 
which for Gnome, is a bit of a problem IMHO


On 10/20/22 13:45, Colomban Wendling via orca-list wrote:
> Le 20/10/2022 à 14:24, Will Estes a écrit :
> > On Thursday, 20 October 2022,  2:18 pm +0200, Colomban Wendling via 
> > orca-list <orca-list gnome org> wrote:
> >
> > > ... It really could be a mailing list ...
> >
> > It is currently a mailing list and gnome is breaking that without 
> > even pretending to get community input.
>
> I'm using their Discourse as well, I'm not saying orca-list feels like 
> a ML (I know it is one), but that Discourse messages can :) -- and the 
> little I use it I do like so.  You can also check out Didier's thread 
> on discourse where I interacted 100% through my email client.
>
> > > I think that before getting angry and setting up something new, 
> > > maybe giving
> > > it a fair shot would be good.
> >
> > What is fair would be the gnome folk asking users what they actually 
> > need instead of imposing some solution that no one asked for.
> >
> > > -- call me crazy, but I trust they care.
> >
> > All the evidence we have says they don't care in the least. No input 
> > was saught, no evaluation was asked for and the notice period is 
> > really short. As blind folk, we're used to being second class 
> > citizens; I appreciate the gnome folks unmasking themselves as just 
> > the usual patronizing uncaring types who think that crumbs are good 
> > enough.
>
> Well, I know of the policy to move mailing lists to Discourse for a 
> long time, and it happened a while ago for GTK and others. Admittedly 
> I follow plenty other GNOME pieces than Orca alone, and so might have 
> gained information that weren't properly sent to *everybody* -- not 
> that it ever was hidden though.
>
> And this is not new, it happened like 3 years ago, maybe even 4 (I 
> remember some stuff going on there as early as march 2019).  And I 
> even think they did a poll at the time.  But the thing with polls is 
> that, just as the announcement, it has to reach people, and it didn't 
> reach you, which is a shame.
>
> I'm just saying that although this current announcement might feel 
> like a hard hit, and maybe they should have done it better, but I 
> would think that I'm not the only one here to have been expecting this 
> to happen at some point for more than a while.  I even think there was 
> already such a thread in this list some time ago.  It just hit hard 
> and real now.
>
> I hear you that a11y users always being the least visible and thought 
> of makes it harder to accept, but I don't think it's any specific 
> here. It just happens to *also* hit this list just as all other GNOME 
> ones (e.g. GIMP just migrated to Discourse as well, and there was a 
> tiny bit of friction there too because things changed).
>
> If Discourse is not accessible enough, it's another matter. And there 
> I would expect GNOME admin to care, and they definitely should.
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> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html