David Dollar has expressed interest in working on internet radio directory stuff. Here's a discussion that went on back in February about this kind of stuff. Food for thought (and more discussion)... Is Hackel on this list? Do you have your code anywhere public? Feb 11 00:21:11 <Hackel> walters: Right now I'm adding a bunch of "dumy" url's to my list so that all of the genres show up in the genre list. As a result of this, all the dummy stations show up in the "All" genre (which is why I'm trying to remove it). Can you think of a more sensible way to do this? Feb 11 00:23:01 <walters> ah... Feb 11 00:23:21 <walters> why are you adding dummy urls? if there are no stations in a particular genre, why show it? Feb 11 00:24:33 <Hackel> No, there are stations in the genre. Feb 11 00:25:29 --> ganadist (~ganadist@ganadist.mizi.com) has joined #rhythmbox Feb 11 00:26:53 <Hackel> I can't get the entire list of stations at once (over 5000 of them), I just retrieve the list for the selected genre. Feb 11 00:30:04 <walters> hm Feb 11 00:30:17 <walters> but you can retrieve a list of genres easily? Feb 11 00:30:39 <Hackel> Yeah, and I refresh that list each time the station list is refreshed. Feb 11 00:30:40 <walters> btw, is it legal to retrive the data from wherever you are? Feb 11 00:30:52 <walters> i noticed at least shoutcast.com's terms of use quite explicitly disallowed it Feb 11 00:31:31 <Hackel> Hmm, good point, I hadn't considered that. Feb 11 00:31:48 <walters> that's what stopped me from working on it way, way back in the net-rhythmbox days Feb 11 00:32:13 <walters> i got a mail from someone using netrb the other day Feb 11 00:32:17 <walters> some freebsd user Feb 11 00:32:26 <walters> i felt like i was in a time warp Feb 11 00:32:48 <walters> but anyways... Feb 11 00:33:10 <Hackel> Heh, yeah. Hmm, well they must have made an agreement with Apple to let them use it, though who knows if they had to pay for it. Feb 11 00:33:20 <walters> yeah, the iradio doesn't quite fit in well into the rhythmdb design now Feb 11 00:33:26 <walters> yeah, i'm sure apple pays them Feb 11 00:33:45 <walters> at least, the dynamic iradio stuff Feb 11 00:34:13 <walters> let me mull on this for a bit Feb 11 00:35:06 <Hackel> Well I'm sure I can at the very least implement Xiph's directory browser (they even have xml!), and we could contact Nullsoft about getting permission. Feb 11 00:35:46 <walters> re xiph - yeah, i looked at that, there was almost nothing there, so i just decided not to do it :) Feb 11 00:35:56 <walters> but that might have changed in like the last year Feb 11 00:36:32 <walters> i guess it's a bit of a catch-22 too...no apps will use it until it has more stuff, and it won't have more stuff until apps use it... Feb 11 00:36:58 <Hackel> Hasn't changed a whole lot, unfortunately, but it's something (and easy to implement since streamtuner's already got a plugin for it). I bet Live365's even more adamant about not copying their directory. Feb 11 00:38:30 <walters> ok Feb 11 00:38:40 <walters> if you still want to work on this, here's what i think you should do Feb 11 00:38:57 <walters> have the iradio source not use an RBPropertyView for the genre browser Feb 11 00:39:23 <walters> instead, just use a normal treeview + liststore or something Feb 11 00:39:34 <walters> populate that with your genre list Feb 11 00:39:56 <walters> but you still stick the stations into a query model Feb 11 00:40:16 <walters> now Feb 11 00:40:32 <walters> one thing you will have to do is watch for when the user adds/deletes stations, and add/delete the corresponding genres if necessary Feb 11 00:40:42 <walters> or - you could just not let them add a genre outside of the existing list Feb 11 00:42:02 <walters> does that make sense? Feb 11 00:42:25 <Hackel> Yeah.. We could just keep iradio as-is for bookmarks, and just use the new genre browser for live radio. Feb 11 00:42:43 <walters> sure Feb 11 00:43:36 <Hackel> If that's how you want to do the interface, that is. Two sources, one for bookmarks, the other for live, which is what I'm doing now. LiveRadio's just an instance of IRadio. Feb 11 00:44:23 <walters> the thing to keep in mind is that i doubt that GNOME would want to ship an app that is violating some web site's terms of use. Feb 11 00:44:39 <walters> so really we should figure out that problem before going too much farther on this, I think. Feb 11 00:44:49 <walters> i wouldn't want you to do all this work and then have us not able to use it Feb 11 00:45:17 <walters> and of course if shoutcast got annoyed, they'd just change their HTML layout. Feb 11 00:45:47 <walters> really it's a sucky situation :( Feb 11 00:45:52 <Hackel> Yeah, well I still think it's worth it even if it only can view Xiph's directory...100 stations and growing. ;) Feb 11 00:45:58 <walters> ok, cool Feb 11 00:46:04 <walters> i agree Feb 11 00:46:28 <Hackel> And since that's XML, it's the least likely to change and not work in the future. Feb 11 00:46:38 <walters> yeah, definitely Feb 11 00:48:04 <Hackel> It's not as if Nullsoft's announced any progress lately on Winamp for Linux, so who knows, they might let us use it. There are certainly some Linux-friendly developers there. Feb 11 00:48:14 <walters> it's always worth asking Feb 11 00:49:14 <walters> so wrt the ui - one thing i've been thinking about for a while is allowing you to add iradio stations to playlists. it'd be really easy to implement. Feb 11 00:49:22 <walters> now - if we have your live browser Feb 11 00:49:28 <walters> let's call that "Radio" Feb 11 00:49:38 <walters> why not make the "Favorites" just a playlist? Feb 11 00:50:12 <walters> it would be a distinguished playlist - perhaps it would be a child of the Radio source Feb 11 00:50:50 <walters> i expect that most people won't have a humongous favorite list, so not having the browser won't be a big deal Feb 11 00:51:57 <Hackel> Yeah, that's true. That would function the same as it does now, though, right? Feb 11 00:52:12 <walters> ah...which? Feb 11 00:52:17 <walters> your live browser would replace Radio Feb 11 00:52:31 <walters> (and of course we'd migrate people's existing stations into Favorites) Feb 11 00:54:07 <Hackel> But I mean, functionally, wouldn't that be just like just changing the names around? Feb 11 00:54:16 <ionrock> Thanks for your help walters with the buffer work, I hope I can submit a patch some time Feb 11 00:54:28 Hackel hadess harshy Feb 11 00:54:46 <walters> Hackel: ah...well, you were talking about having the existing Radio source be "Favorites", right? Feb 11 00:55:17 <Hackel> Yeah... I'm just not understanding the difference you're suggesting. Feb 11 00:55:32 <walters> i'm suggesting that Favorites be an instance of RBPlaylistSource Feb 11 00:55:36 <-- ionrock has quit (Client exiting) Feb 11 00:55:51 <walters> and thus not have a browser, and you can have drag and drop reordering, etc Feb 11 00:57:01 <walters> i think a lot of people will just use Radio if we make it easy enough to use Feb 11 00:57:44 <Hackel> Oh okay, I thought you were saying make it a child of the radio source. Feb 11 00:58:14 <walters> i was thinking that - but i'm mainly just throwing out ideas here :) Feb 11 00:58:16 <Hackel> Which would essentially just reverse the way it is now (live is a child of radio). Feb 11 00:58:27 <walters> yeah...i definitely think if we have live, we should pimp it Feb 11 00:58:47 <walters> assuming it works well Feb 11 00:58:58 <walters> and if it doesn't work well, there's no point to having it really at all :) Feb 11 00:59:22 <Hackel> How difficult would it be to add drag/drop support to iradio then, vs. using playlist source? Feb 11 00:59:28 <-- teemu has quit (Remote closed the connection) Feb 11 00:59:35 --> teemu (~teemu@212.116.46.38) has joined #rhythmbox Feb 11 00:59:42 <walters> drag/drop from Radio to Favorites? Feb 11 01:00:25 <Hackel> Yeah, that's the big advantage of using playlist, right? Feb 11 01:00:44 <walters> that's one nice thing about it, yeah Feb 11 01:01:05 <walters> but overall it'll just keep the Favorites simple Feb 11 01:04:49 <Hackel> Yes, definitely, I'm just saying if it already works fine as-is, there should be a good reason to change it... Unless you think being able to add internet radio stations to other playlists is valuable (I can't really see how that would be useful). Feb 11 01:06:16 <walters> i guess i just don't like the idea of having a browser in both the live and the favorites Feb 11 01:06:31 <walters> in general, it seems to me that the live is analogous to the library Feb 11 01:06:41 <walters> and favorites is similar to playlists Feb 11 01:06:54 <walters> in that it's the user creating some subset of the data Feb 11 01:07:23 <walters> having radio stations in other playlists probably isn't that useful Feb 11 01:07:37 <walters> now Feb 11 01:07:47 <walters> maybe we could make this relationship distinctive to the user Feb 11 01:07:55 <walters> by actually having playlists be children of the library Feb 11 01:08:12 <Hackel> Okay, well that makes sense then, though I can still see having the browser as useful, since you can always set it to the All genre and hide the browser. Feb 11 01:09:33 <walters> yeah, i just don't see it being used that much. i think most people will probably have their say 5-10 favorite stations and that's it Feb 11 01:09:57 <walters> codewise it's cleaner too Feb 11 01:10:10 <Hackel> Yeah, I'm sure you're right... The only reason I ever added a lot is because it didn't have a radio browser. :) Feb 11 01:11:03 <Hackel> The playlist would then need an add station dialog and all that. Feb 11 01:11:17 <walters> well Feb 11 01:11:24 <walters> i was thinking you'd drag and drop Feb 11 01:11:37 <walters> but we do need an alternative to that Feb 11 01:11:51 <walters> perhaps right click on a station in the live has an option "Add to Favorites"? Feb 11 01:11:53 <Hackel> Drag and drop from a browser as well? Feb 11 01:12:43 <walters> hm Feb 11 01:12:47 <Hackel> Many stations won't be in the live browser, -especially- if we can't use the shoutcast/live365 directories. Feb 11 01:13:39 <walters> right...maybe we should call it "Add new custom radio station..." Feb 11 01:13:51 <walters> a bit long though, hm Feb 11 01:14:03 <Hackel> I suppose one way to handle it would be to use RB as a helper app, then when it opens the stream it is in a "now playing" source or something, and -then- you can drag it to the favorites. Feb 11 01:14:22 <walters> ah Feb 11 01:14:32 <walters> yeah, that's not a bad idea Feb 11 01:14:45 <walters> but i'm still thinking about "now playing" and how that's all going to work out Feb 11 01:14:50 <walters> so let's try not to depend on it yet Feb 11 01:15:21 <Hackel> Yeah, I suppose in the meantime it could just automatically add to the favorites as it does now. Feb 11 01:15:54 <walters> what you said is definitely another good reason to have now playing though. Feb 11 01:16:27 <walters> that'd be nice if you were just browsing shoutcast.com and clicking on stations to see what they sounded like. Feb 11 01:16:39 <walters> then they wouldn't be added to your favorites, where you'd have to delete them later. Feb 11 01:17:03 <Hackel> Yeah, exactly. And when you add them you can edit the description,genre and such. Feb 11 01:17:56 <walters> yeah. but again, let's ignore "now playing" for now...it needs a lot more thought. Feb 11 01:21:09 <Hackel> True... Well I'll start taking apart iradio and try to add the alternate genre browser. This way I could even add sub-genre support. Feb 11 01:21:54 <walters> if you wanted to get fancy, you could make it a real treeview, similar to itunes Feb 11 01:23:01 <Hackel> Well I was thinking similar to streamtuner (http://www.nongnu.org/streamtuner/screenshots/main.png). I don't know if that's how itunes does it. Feb 11 01:25:00 <walters> http://www.atpm.com/7.12/images/itunes-radio-tuner.gif Feb 11 01:25:08 <Hackel> Another option (though I hate it when programs do this) would be to make a web-browser source that displayed shoutcast.com. I think that's probably unnecessary, though. Feb 11 01:25:39 <walters> slightly bigger: http://joelnelson1.tripod.com/macosx/iTunes_Radio.jpg Feb 11 01:26:54 --- yakkGone is now known as yakk Feb 11 01:27:11 <Hackel> Hmm, do you prefer it this way? I think I like the RB genre browser better, myself Feb 11 01:27:36 <walters> i don't have too strong of a preference, no Feb 11 01:27:59 <Hackel> A lot less scrolling to change genres. :) Feb 11 01:28:15 <walters> yeah, the tree has a higher overhead Feb 11 01:28:25 <walters> the advantage though i think is it's a bit more intuitive Feb 11 01:28:40 <walters> but i am totally fine with keeping the separate browser
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