Re: Decorations (again)

[Dominik Vogt <dominik vogt fvwm org>]

On Tue, Nov 16, 1999 at 10:50:36PM +0000, pdw@ferret.lmh.ox.ac.uk wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Nov 1999, Dominik Vogt wrote:
> 
> > > OK, I take your point, and I think you're right.
> > > 
> > > However, there are apps that allow you to specify their startup geometry.
> > > Perhaps the spec should suggest that remembering a start up geometry is
> > > the job of the Window Manager and not the app?  I see the workspace and
> > > layer as part of the geometry, so it seems inconsistent to allow some of
> > > the geometry, but not all of it, to be app specified...
> > 
> > Hm, the same reasoning applies to window geometry.  Only a few applications
> > do remember a specific position although every application might benefit
> > from it.  
> 
> Absolutely.  Although, I think you'll appreciate that it is not the
> easiest feature to implement cleanly in a WM.  How do you recognise a
> window when you see it again?  For example, the title may have changed.
> In the case of multiple windows with the same class, it may be necessary
> to remember the WM_ROLE of each window.  Even so, I now agree that this
> should be the WM's job.
> 
> > The usual way to get an app. at a certain position is to use
> > X resources.  Because of this most window managers can't remember
> > application positions.  I'm not sure what we can/should do about that.
> 
> I don't quite follow.  Are you saying because the X resources mechanism
> exists for many apps, most WMs don't bother to implement this behaviour?

Yes.  Let's me rephrase it to make it clear:

Because the X resources mechanism exists for many apps, most WMs can not
force certain applications to specific positions on the screen.

A session manager may fill this gap.

> > I think if a layer hint is necessary it should be possible to set it
> > as an X resource and on the command line too (if we want consistency).
> > The most flexible way is the command line (otherwise all my xterms would
> > end up on the top layer, for example).
> 
> Yes, but do we want a layer hint?  If, as you suggest, that apps should
> not be allowed to specify the "on-top" hint, then why else would we want a
> layer hint?

No, I don't want a layer hint, but I want that the user can specify
a layer.

The three possible solutions of setting a layer for specific windows
all have an individual flaw:

 - X resources:
     All instances of the application will use the same hint.
     Very bad e.g. with xterms.
 - Command line option:
     All existing applications have to be adapted
 - Window Manager:
     It's problematic to identify the windows

-- 
Dominik Vogt, Agilent Technologies, Dept. BVS
Herrenberger Str.130, 71034 Boeblingen, Germany
phone: 07031/464-4596, fax: 07031/464-3883, dominik_vogt@agilent.com