Re: Gnome2: Why UI change? ( or why a Gnome user since 1.0 is con templating leaving)

[Gerald Henriksen <ghenriks rogers com>]

On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:18:27 -0500 (EST), you wrote:
>95% of the computing world also uses Windows.  I suppose they are correct
>over the users of every other operating systems.  Just because it is
>commonly done doesn't make it *right*.  There are good reasons to
>switching the buttons.

We end up inheriting a lot of things that are considered standards not
because they are the best way of doing something but because the
existing installed base means it is easier.

Most people seem to think that the IA32 architecture is a mess, yet
95% of people still use it.

Studies have shown that the QWERTY keyboard layout is not optimal, yet
most of us continue to use it simply because that is the keyboard
layout most people know.

etc.

>I also believe the option will be configurable.  Then, users that want
>a "Windows-like" environment can make it act like one, there can be a KDE
>ripoff, etc.  (hopefully GNOME 2+ will have a single nice selection/druid
>for this).

If this was going to be the case then I would guess the UI guide would
have to tell developers exactly what to call the buttons so Gnome
would know what button to put where.  There is no such info in the UI
guide.

>Then *your* application will be the odd one out.  It will be the
>application that doesn't fit the rest of the environment, and it will be
>the one that confuses.  It will be your app, not GNOME, that is ignored
>because of UI weirdness.  I don't know about "most people" but just about

Actually, it won't be.  While my planning up to this point has been to
use Gnome/GTK I will now be switching to KDE.  I don't really want to
but a consistent UI and a developer team that doesn't change things by
180 degrees are more important than my preference for GTK.

>every GUI app I run is a GNOME app.  The ones that aren't are GTK apps.  I
>don't have KDE, even Qt installed.  Motif/Lesstif/etc. don't come near my
>system.  And the only Java I use is in my web browser (which is a GNOME
>app).  I use GNOME, and just GNOME, and I don't want to use any weird UI
>applications that swap buttons on me from what the rest of my apps use.
>Especially if the rest of those apps use a more intelligent, intuitive
>button layout than simply copying others.

Have fun.  The UI change means that every one of those apps you use
now must have their button layouts changed, which will take time.  Not
even all of the apps including with Gnome2 have been changed yet so
you are in for a long period of button layout differing depending on
the with app you are using.

As for the fact that you use only Gnome apps, thats great.  But that
is not true for most people.

>If you use the default behaviour in your application, other than forcing
>your button layouts on your users, then just change the default for your
>setup.  Then you get the setup you want, others get the setup they want,
>etc.  Otherwise, everyone is forced to do things your way, whether they
>want to or not.

Except there is no option to change the layout of the buttons.

>I prefer the GNOME way, it *is* easier and makes more sense.  I also have
>a habit of reading buttons before clicking on them - that certainly
>helps.  ~,^

While I don't doubt you I would guess that most people don't.  They
know where the OK button is and where the Cancel button is and
automatically move the mouse to where they expect that button to be.

>Please note, I'm not trying to attack your or your preference of button
>layout.  Simply making the note that different != evil, and that forcing
>your layout over the standard will cause the very problem you want to
>avoid.  So please don't do it.  ^,^

You are missing the point.  My preference of button layout is not
relevant, what is relevant is that the applications on Linux are
consistent.

Gnome2, by reversing the order of the buttons, is causing the problem.
All the other applications available for Linux (Gnome1, KDE, Motif,
Java) all use the "windows" ordering of buttons.

I am sure Microsoft is going to love this, they will demonstrate to
people a machine running a Gnome2 app and a KDE app and say buy
Windows instead where you can actually get a consistent (reasonably)
UI.