Re: IRC channels in gnome development



On Sat, 2011-02-05 at 11:43 -0600, Paul Cutler wrote:
> You're asking to change the way things have been done for years -
> which isn't an argument to not do things that way, but just pointing
> it ou.
> 
> However, the GNOME Design team has regular office hours in IRC where
> everyone is welcome to come and ask questions - I'm not a designer,
> but I don't know what more you can ask for if IRC is going to be used.

I believe that the ask/question is not a problem. The problem is that
you cannot easily follow the process. I'm not sure about office hours
but:

 - They probably aren't in best timezone for all. Unfortunatly we have
around 26 timezones and there is a chance that a) hours are too long and
the relevant designer is not present b) they happen to be between 3 am
and 5 am (or 10am and 12am) so not everybody can be there to observe the
process. It is possible to stay awake one night to ask specific question
but it is harder to do it constantly.
 - They are not widely know. I tried to googled them without success.
They aren't in topic. etc.

>  Development is not a democracy

I have never argue to democratise the process. While in politics
openness and democracy are considered near synonymous I don't think they
necessary are in software development.

While it might be a stretch analogy but some people argue in various
companies (not every company and it may be argued how good the policy
is) to open the discussion/design process to community (I think I heard
about Dell, Starbucks and others). Of course it is company who plays the
role of beneficial dictator in this model nonetheless the consumers may
be proven to be valuable source of feedback and ideas (even if the need
to be filtered out).

> - and for those who are going to do
> get things done,

While it is my opinion I detest IRC even for my own projects for the
same reasons that are stated - I prefer working in batch mode instead of
online mode as I concentrate on one task. Of course I'm not arguing
every developer detest (and apparently GNOME design team likes IRC).

> discussion via IRC and its immediacy is a powerful
> tool.  I personally think asking IRC not to be used for "important"
> (which is relative) decisions is not realistic.
> 
> Paul

While it may be unrealistic it seems that at least some people are
surprised that recent UI changes were surprise. Heatedness of debate
were not helping but the discussion I've observed (one in blogosphere)
was:

 A: The change ****. It breaks workflow XYZ. You ***.
 B: The issue was discussed extensively on IRC. We feel that Average Joe
would benefit and workflow XYZ is broken and ***.

The unanswered questions:

 - What exactly was discussed? What were the arguments?
 - Why workflow XYZ is broken? What should be the workflow be in
designers mind?[1]

Not using the IRC (or not only IRC) would help as:

 - Subscription to mailing list is much less consuming then joining IRC
channel (low barier to entry -> more real live usage and more
informations about users workflows and more possibilities to correct
them)
 - There is something persisting to point at. If anyone asks why
decision was made you can point them at specific topic/e-mail in
archive.

Regards

[1] Say the change was that there cannot be double enters in text
processor and user complains (s)he cannot finish a page to start another
the response may be that (s)he should use break page feature.

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