Re: Window Manager compliance

[Paul Warren <pdw ferret lmh ox ac uk>]

On Thu, 20 May 1999, Nathan Clegg wrote:

> > That's a nice idea, but in reality Gnome compliance demands deep changes
> > to 
> > the way a window manager behaves. To comply, existing window managers
> > have 
> > to be patched or rewritten. I'm simply suggesting that one of the many 
> > features which Gnome compliance should include is that the window
> > manager 
> > should ignore the desktop background.
> 
> By doing this, you remove the possibility of the GNOME-compliant window
> manager to really be used independent of GNOME.  that's important.  

No it isn't -- at least not if the Window Manager is designed to be used
with exclusively with Gnome.  I've been looking into Gnome & Window
Managers recently, and the more I look, the more I feel the need for a
window manager that is written exclusively for Gnome.  No wharfs/docks,
because Gnome has a panel.  No pager, because gnome has a pager.  In fact,
once you get into the mess of session management, with the Window Manager
being required to remember /where/ the windows are whilst the session
manager remembers /what/ they are, I start to think that for a truely
integrated desktop you need to abandon this idealistic "use whatever
window manager you want, because your desktop environment, and your Window
Manager are seperate entities" view. To work /seamlessly/ with gnome a
window manager needs to be so heavily doctored (and I mean beyond what the
current compliance spec requires) that you may as well have a dedicated
window manager that does the job perfectly, rather than a range of window
managers that do the job badly (both Window Maker and E do it badly.  I
will backup this comment, if pushed). 

Gnome is tied to GTK.  Gnome is tied to gnome-style panels.  Gnome has
tied itself to gmc (which is horrendously incomplete, BTW).  Why are we so
afraid of tieing ourselves to a single, dedicated, window manager?  I
don't get it.  Gnome is a desktop environment.  The window manager should
be an integral part of that, not something that has to be crowbarred in,
in an "well it almost works" type way. 

> People
> should not be locked into one or the other.  A, B, or AB: your choice. 

Sure.  You choose Gnome, but you're locked into using panels & GTK &
esound because they're part of Gnome.  Why not make the window manager
part of that list and have a really smart, integrated desktop?

I have used and developed Window Maker for over a year, but I would gladly
change to another WM tomorrow if I thought that it would give my desktop a
fully integrated feel.  As long as we maintain this illogical and
historical divide between window manager and desktop environment, the
won't happen. 

yours,

Paul