[Fwd: Re: Your final comments on gswitchit in 2.4...]

["Sergey V. Oudaltsov" <sergey oudaltsov clients ie>]

-----Пересланное сообщение-----
From: Sergey V. Oudaltsov <sergey.oudaltsov@clients.ie>
To: Murray.Cumming@Comneon.com
Cc: jdub@perkypants.org, jrb@redhat.com, jody@gnome.org, release-team@gnome.org
Subject: Re: Your final comments on gswitchit in 2.4...
Date: 23 Jun 2003 15:40:30 +0100

> Yes, I didn't go into detail because that doesn't really belong on the
> private release-team list.
Well, even the details you gave me is a good reason for me to think 
again about overall UI.

> Don't know. Whatever comes with RH9.
OK. It means 4.3.0

> Actually the XKB Properties "Update Preview" button tells me that I have
> XFree 4.3.0 and that there known problems with it.
:) Good. At least this hook is working:)

> I think you are talking about the "XKB Properties" available from the
> Applications/Desktop Preferences/Advanced/ menu. This is also a very
> confusing UI, and it is not clear, without reading halfway through the Help
> file, that I need to use this in order for the panel applet to work. Also,
> people probably don't want to know what XKB is.
Well, if you're talking about the capplet name - I really agree. Would 
just "Keyboard Layout" be enough? Or any better suggestion?

> Some obvious UI-issues with the "XKB properties":
> 1. Notebook tabs named, Options 1 and Options 2 are unclear.
Well, they are basically differs only in a way that one contains 
single-selection options (implemented as menus), another - multiple 
selection options (implemented as lists). It anyone could come up with 
better than "Options #" idea - I would gratefully accept it. Do not 
offer to put them all into one page (or have page-per-widget:)
> 2. The use of two toggle buttons instead of radio buttons for "XKB settings
> custom/global preconfigured" is confusing.
Well, in HIG I read that radio buttons should not affect other controls 
(they recommend toggle buttons for this). This thing effectively 
enables/disables all the rest of UI - because choosing global settings 
(taken from XF86Config) you cannot tune anything here. So at some point 
(just after reading HIG) I replaced radios with toggles. Was I wrong?
> 3. I don't know what those 2 buttons do. "Global preconfigured" sounds scary
> to me.
Well, again - tooltips can help here. Or any better name you can offer. 
The idea is simple - "I do not configure xkb, use the configuration 
admin wrote in XF86Config".
> 4. Lots of the widgets are insensitive. It's not obvious what I need to do
> to make them sensitive.
Choose "User-defined settings" :)
> 5. The combo boxes in in Options 1 do not have any default value. If no
> value really means something then we should
>   probably say what it means.
No value - meanst this option is not set at all. Just plain and simple.
> 6. I guess most of the options in Options 1 and Options 2 should be removed
> in favour of sensible defaults.
:( A lot of people would really hate me. They really do use these 
options. But I can think about "optional removal" (for example, have 
something in GConf which would configure this removal). Actually, these 
are all options provided by XKB and they all make sense. Well, again, I 
have to think about it.
> 7. I don't know what "3rd level choosers" are.
The way people choose 3rd level (3rd group) in configuration.
> 8. The use of keyboard LEDs to show gswitchit status seems very hacky.
Actually, it is not a hack (as far as gswitchit is concerned). It is 
standard feature of xkb. gswitchit has nothing to do with it. You can 
put it into XF86Config, remove gswitchit - and still have this feature.
> 9. The preview pane: I don't know what this is supposed to show a preview
> of. Why would I have to press a button to update the preview?
The preview of the keyboard layout. It is postscript file, generated by 
xkbprint and shown through bonobo to ggv control. The button is 
introduced because launching xkbprint for any change in widgets would be 
too expensive, I guess.

> Here are just some points about the main panel applet:
> 1. The tooltip for the applet says "United Kingdom" rather than "Keyboard
> switcher (United Kingdom)".
Good point. Easy to fix. I'll do it ASAP.
> 2. Every single widget in the properties window requires me to read the
> documentation to know what on earth it's for.
:) Well, not really - but can be useful. In general, you are right.
> 3. The most obvious thing in that window is a frame, titled "United
> Kingdom", with a UK flag in the middle, and a checkbox marked "secondary". I
> don't knew what these do, but:
>    - If I click on the checkbox to set it, it unsets itself again. 
Yes. Because at least on layout should be primary.:)
>    - If I click on the flag then I can choose another country's flag
> instead. I would be forgiven for expecting this to switch me to a different
> keyboard layout.
:)) Well, this is really interesting - never expected anyone to get 
confused. No, this is only pixmap chooser - you can set any pixmap you 
like (for example, some people just like the texts "ru" and "us" on 
white background - so they can choose it).
>    - I am confused that United Kingdom appears to be hardcoded into the app.
> Of course I know it isn't, but it looks that way in the UI, and there's no
> way in this window to change or add different keyboard maps.
Did you see the layout tree in xkb properties? These are the layouts 
available in xfree. You cannot change this easily (and definitely user 
is not expected to do this). There are xkb symbols, there is xkb config 
repository (xml file) - so you can just choose the things which XFree 
made for you (well, you can contribute) - but that's really NOT easy at 
all, so we'll not discuss it here.
> 4. When I right-click on the applet, I see a groups sub-menu with my flag in
> it. I don't know what a "group" is without reading the docuementation. Is
> there no way to just call it "keyboard layouts" or something like that?
Well, this is really hard point. The term "layout" in xkb is used for 
describing the entire xkb configuration (which can consist of several 
groups). The problem here is whether we want to use the terminology 
different (and contraversal) to xkb one. This is a major question - and 
I do not know 100% right answer to it. I preferred to stick to xkb 
terminology (well defined and strict).

> doesn't tell me much. If it is just about whether I can use a keyboard
> shortcut to switch to the keyboard layout then I would expect something like
> a "Can be selected via keyboard shortcut" checkbox.
Well, I can put this this way. No problem. I am just not sure it is 
easier for understanding.

> No, I don't see how that would help. I think you need to
> - simplify the UI - it's just a keyboard switcher 
It is full-fledged keyboard configurator - which is a bit more. Again, I 
can think about optional removal of some options - but I see no way to 
simplify thing greatly.
> - make the UI a bit more self-explanatory.
Long way to go. Great thanks for ideas.
> - make it easy to change the things in the UI from where people see them in
> the UI.
Sorry, did not get this...

> I think the UI is terribly unready for GNOME 2.4 at the moment. I am the
> least-informed member of the release-team concerning this module though.
OK. Some easy fixes can be made in 2.4 timeframe - but some are highly 
problematic (especially related to terminology).

Again, BIG thanks to you for explaining me all your troubles. This is 
actually the FIRST 3rd party review (earlier there were just me and 
users with "thankgs" and bugreports). Even if I won't make it by 2.4 - I 
hope by 2.6 I polish UI to the level where you find it easy and 
understantable.

Cheers,

Sergey
-- 
Sergey

=?koi8-r?Q?=FC=D4=C1?= =?koi8-r?Q?_=DE=C1=D3=D4=D8?==?koi8-r?Q?_=D3=CF=CF=C2=DD=C5=CE=C9=D1?==?koi8-r?Q?_=D0=CF=C4=D0=C9=D3=C1=CE=C1?==?koi8-r?Q?_=C3=C9=C6=D2=CF=D7=CF=CA?==?koi8-r?Q?_=D0=CF=C4=D0=C9=D3=D8=C0?=