Re: [gnome-love] Xaw

[Martin Pool <mbp samba org>]

On  8 Jul 2003, "mike flyn org" <mike flyn org> wrote:
> I've been using various X Athena-based applications for years, However...
>
> Call me crazy, but a modern, user-friendly desktop should not contain
> applications built with the X Athena widget library.  I think most people
> would feel it is ugly and difficult to use.  However, most packaging
> systems out there strongly recommend installing Xaw applications.
> For example, Debian's xbase-clients contains several Xaw applications.
>
> Of these applications, I would like to start a discussion about which
> are no longer needed, which have GNOME replacements and which need
> replacements written.  If I get some agreement about Xaw and some input, I
> would like to petition various package managers to make their packages
> a bit more fine grained.  For example, xbase-client could become
> xbase-client and xbase-client-xaw.

That's a good question.

>       Package xbase-client:
>               Xaw App.        GNOME App.
>               ==========================
>               beforelight     xscreensaver

It would be nice if xscreensaver consistently used the GNOME HIG for
the password prompt.  Apparently jwz feels there is a reason not to do it. 

>               bitmap          gimp?

or gnome-iconedit or gpaint?

>               editres         ?
>               listres         ?
>               viewres         ?

Cool as these are, I don't think they ever ought to need to be used by
end users, and I'm not sure if they will even do anything very useful
for GNOME apps.

>               xbiff           gbiff
>               xcalc           GNOME's calculator
>               xclipboard      ?

I think there is a third-party applet somewhere that allows you to
keep multiple clippings, etc. 

Within GNOME's simplified user model, having multiple selections
around at the same time is perhaps an unnecessary complication.  I
think it's OK for this to be provided by an addon for users who want
it.

>               xclock          various GNOME clocks
>               xconsole        ?

I guess this is covered by the log viewer application.  I personally
don't think the UI design is very good at the moment -- e.g. the false
dichotomy between viewing and monitoring logs, etc.  But the basic
functionality is there, translated to the way Unix machines work today
with log files rather than console logs.

>               xcutsel         not needed?
>               xditview        not needed?     
>               xedit           gedit

... thank goodness.

>               xf86cfg         xf86config, distribution-provided tools
>               xfd             ?

gfontsel or fontilus.

>               xfontsel        GNOME applications should display fonts in menus
>               xgamma          Why does this require Xaw?

Good question.  It would be nice if this were integrated with the
control panel.

>               xgc             GNOME IDEs?
>               xkbbell         ?

This doesn't expose a user interface either.  I don't know why it uses
Xaw.

>               xkbvleds        ?

I think there is a thirdparty applet for this.

>               xkbwatch        ?

Not for end users?

>               xload           gtop, various panel applets
>               xlogo           ?

gnome-about?

>               xmag            GNOME
>               xman            yelp
>               xmessage        gdialog
>               xsm             gnome-session
>               xvidtune        ?

I don't think users should be exposed to the low-level detail of
xvidtune.  xrandr-level information should be in the control panel.

>       Package tetex-bin:
>               Xaw App.        GNOME App.
>               ==========================
>               xdvi.real       xgdvi (NEEDS TO BE PORTED TO gtk2.0?
>               oxdvi.real      xgdvi  should GNOME have one electronic 
>                                      document viewer for pdf, ps, dvi, etc?)
>
>       Package gv:
>               Xaw3d App.      GNOME App.
>               ==========================
>               gv              gpdf (no problem to replace but see xgdvi note)
>
>
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-- 
Martin