Re: [GnomeMeeting-list] Re: Gnomemeeting not running over the net...

[Damien Sandras <dsandras seconix com>]

I'm stupid enough to answer you. Read some of my comments inline.

Le mar 23/04/2002 à 09:57, Hugh Daniel a écrit :
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
>   I am trying to simply run gnomemeeting on host A and have the
> display come up on host B, nothing more.  It's not working and no one
> has bothered to write a man page for any of this, the help and about
> boxes are no use etc. etc. etc.

Yes my colleague is doing that all the time. No need to have a manpage
for GnomeMeeting that explains how to do basic Unix things. Do you think
it is needed? Do I have to reexplain "cp" in the manpage too?

export DISPLAY and/or ssh are the solution to your problem and it works
very good for lots of people.

> 
> "How do I log in from two machines at once?"

I don't think it is what you need.

> 
> 
>   So I am pushing folks to have bugs probject address.  What if I did
> NOT have a high speed line into the net but was only on the net via
> UUCP?  Don't laugh (if you even know what that is, it's getting a bit
> long in the tooth these days...) I have friends who are using UUCP and
> sometimes FTP and thats it for access to the net.  Really.

Yes god, I know what it is. I learned my lesson.

> 
>   I did not find the doc for GConf and ORBit because they are not in
> the fricking system.  If they are not findable by "man -k THING" they
> are not Unix programs and don't belong on my system.  Period.

OK, uninstall them. I have a different notion for manpages than you.
Manpages are for command line tools, that use config files and so on.
Manpages are not for GUI, for StarOffice or for Mozilla. It doens't make
any sense.

> 
>   I _am_ serious, crazy as it sounds.  Unix IS learnable due to things
> like the well thought out "information mapping" and permuted index
> that make up the man pages.  Not the horror that is info pages or
> HOWTO's, they are just easy ramps (the HOWTO's are useful in some few
> cases where your trying to copy exactly what someone else has done on
> the same hardware, with the same rev of the software, with the same
> librarys, etc. etc. etc.) for some beginner hobbyists.

It is foreseen in the future to have a help. But GnomeMeeting already
provides a long FAQ, and tooltips for each of the options.

> 
>   For some reason Gnomemeeting uses Gconf and therefor your somewhat
> responsible for it.  If you did not use it then I would be running the
> test I wanted to run by now, not that it was any big deal in the first
> place.

No, if you had a better knowledge of Unix, you would already have run
the test that you wanted to do. GConf or not GConf...

> 
> 
>   Your PGP2 key is kept in a DNS MX RR?  What?  You have to be kidding
> me!  Thats eaiser to do then finger?  Humm let me guess, convert the
> at sign to a dot and lets try it!:


Hey dude, telling you that seconix.com was a DNS MX was to tell you that
there is no real seconix.com host. So why bother to do a finger? Btw,
isn't using fingerd a high security risk? Heh, you will tell me, because
*you* are the expert.

> 
> 
> 
>   I am not at all worried about FreeS/WAN, I am quite worried about
> the Linux situation in general though and if it's all going to be at
> all useful in a few years.

Mailing Linus could be a great idea...

> 
>   The real world is not using Linux yet, why?  Well lets go for an
> example.  I have been pushing my team real hard to use Gnomemeeting
> rather then RAT as gnomemeeting is being worked on (ie theres hope
> that it will get better, RAT is dead and I don't have time to fix it
> myself).  When we use gnomemeeting we have to give up and use the
> phones about 60% of the time.

Perhaps are you all too ... to read a FAQ or to understand the problem.
You seem to be reluctant to MS-GNU software, but I think that it is what
you really need if GnomeMeeting is still too complex for you and your
team.

> 
>   Even when we use it it's like using a phone in the 1930's, tough.
> Now thats in the middle of the night on VERY high speed lines (T1's or
> better even for the ends) and just going a few hundreds of kilometers.

OK, GnomeMeeting sucks. Nobody is using it for real, it is just to
decorate the desktop and make beautiful screenshots.
But it is unusable. So listen to me, install Windows, run Netmeeting
(just go in the menu to run it), and things will be really better.

> 
>   Now I have a few ideas how attack the problem (and I will be in
> Europe for 6 weeks where it seems you folks are), but most folks are
> just giving up and (very sadly) using MS-shit.  If we are lucky they
> end up on Apple...
> 
> 
>   Oh, no.  Why did I go look into my .gconf dir...  XML to save a few
> state variables that could be (need tobe...) command line arguments?
> What?

Command line arguments? To change each options in real time? Are you
kidding?

> 
>   Each time stamped?  The user is just a name and not even hashed to
> make it somewhat unique!  Your burning 84 kibibytes of my disk to save
> less then a single kibibyte of data?  Most of the data is repeating
> the schema string again and again!
> 
>   Maybe nautilus needs this hell, but something like gnomemeeting
> should not.  Was it really that much easyer to use gconf then to parse
> a foo=bar file?  Eighty four times easier?  Times every user out
> there?
> 
>   Yea I know XML is the "promised land", and I was one of the people
> who fucking INVENTED hypertext, but I am not seeing so much a
> wonderful future of XML heaven as I am seeing an infinite hell like
> the mid-east with XML growing over everything like cancerous
> cataracts...
> 
> 
>   Well you don't need this shit from me.  I have maybe three ideas to
> make VoIP more useful and would be interested in passing them on at
> some point while I am in Europe.  Maybe I could just write them up,
> but if any of you folks are going to be at RIPE or SANE I would be
> happy to buy you a bheer (me a fruit smoothie, California you know...)
> and bounce them off one of you.

I don't want to discuss with you.

> 
> PS: Opps, correction, a new version of RAT just came out!
> 

Perhaps a little hope for you. Use it and make bad advertising for that
crap of GnomeMeeting.

 
-- 
 _	Damien Sandras
(o-	GnomeMeeting - H.323 Video-Conferencing application -
//\		web:  http://www.gnomemeeting.org/
v_/_	FOSDEM 2002  - Free Software and Open Source Developers Meeting -
		web:  http://www.fosdem.org/