Re: [Nautilus-list] Integration of gmc and nautilus desktop directories.

[Evandro Fernandes Giovanini <evandro cmgiovan terra com br>]

On Saturday 14 April 2001 03:56, you wrote:
> Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote:
> >On 12 Apr 2001 12:41:59 -0700, Darin Adler wrote:
> >>>I heard about Tuomas' ~ idea for the desktop.  It is definetly an
> >>>interesting concept, but one that might not fly given the current Unix
> >>>user base.   That is just my feeling right now about Tuomas' idea
> >>
> >>My feeling too.
> >
> >Yep. It's unfortunate I think. I think there is no real reason why it
> >couldnt work, but in practice the discussion attempts on IRC were
> >something like this:
> >
> ><tigert> Can $HOME be the desktop?
> ><hacker> NO! That is WRONG! It is just plain evil!
> ><tigert> Why not? Nautilus doesnt show your dotfiles on the
> >         desktop in any case.. It works very well for me with a
> >temporary symlink to test it. And it makes a lot of sense that
> >if you save a file to your homedir you can see it with Nautilus
> >right there on the desktop!
> ><hacker> But my homedir is a huge mess and it would be embarassing if
> >everyone could see it! <- "hacker" misses the point here.
> >
> >Now at this point I tried to say something like "Well. it takes 10
> >minutes to clean it up with nautilus.. and you make subdirs on your
> >homedir anyway to organize your stuff, right?" but usually the emotional
> >charge for even mentioning the "$HOME should be the desktop" is too
> >strong for most people to overcome and actually listen to me.. Sigh.
>
> I think it is the opposite.  I don't want all the application launcher
> files in my $HOME.
>
> >I just think it is not good to require new users to learn that the files
> >they save are in two different places. I talked with Garrett Le Sage
> >(the linux.com artist guy) and he said he had a lot of trouble
> >explaining to his family (he installed Linux with GNOME for them) that
> >the files they saved did not go to the desktop, but they had to find
> >them in this special directory. And those people were not
> >never-used-a-pc-before -level, they had some computing experience
> >beforehand. They learned how it worked and have no problem now. But
> >should they need to learn such at thing at all?
>
> Perhaps have an option (at install time?) to "Simplify directory
> layout.  (Use $home for the desktop)".  You could also add a button to
> the new and improved gtk/gnome file selector.  There'd be a button for
> "Go to Home Directory" and one for "Go to Desktop".
>
> >I know this is not a perfect solution. Bad Things happen if you rename
> >the ~/evolution or ~/Nautilus or ~/nsmail dirs for example. But all
> >these things could be solved somehow. A list of "common things to hide
> >on the desktop" for example. Maybe automatically hide those for Novice
> >user level? Whatever.
>
> Way too complex.  Not all file managers will implement it and people who
> shouldn't will set prefs. to advanced.  I know.  I provide tech support
> for them!
>
> >The reason I am talking about this: On windows / mac there exists the
> >File Selector. The File Selector knows about the desktop and defaults
> >your saves there. But on Un*x there is no "The File Selector". There are
> >"Legacy NON-GNOME Applications" like our dear web browser Mozilla. Or
> >The Gimp. I dont think it is reasonable to assume that users will not
> >use any non-gnome applications. Why should they learn to know where
> >their desktop directory is?
>
> Don't you think it is a little arrogant to call Mozilla and Gimp
> "legacy"?!?!?!?  Besides, Netscape has an ENV option of where to default
> downloads to.  When I ran RedHat, downloads defaulted to the gnome
> desktop.  (And I hated this)

it wasn't something done by redhat. netscape's default download dir is where 
you started it from, so it's only your gnome desktop dir if you started 
netscape from there. 

open a xterm, cd to / and start netscape. now download something.

>
> >I also understand this can be a frightening experience for existing
> >users - they are likely to freak out if their pr0n collection suddenly
> >ends up as thumbnails on the desktop along with all the other crap they
> >have on their $HOME.
> >
> >    http://tigert.gimp.org/things/my-homedir-is-my-desktop.jpeg
> >
> >The above is what my desktop looked like after I symlinked it. So I know
> >it gets messy. But the other thing is after 10 minutes it wasnt like
> >that anymore. And I had planned to clean it up for 3 years now...
> >Watch a hardcore shell-user love a graphical shell for a change :)
> >
> >Anyway, maybe I am fighting against windmills here.. It might not be a
> >right time for this. Although I have used this for a while now and it
> >just feels right. It works as I expect. And looks like I am not the only
> >one. I encourage you to try it out for a while before you judge it. Feel
> >free to flame me if you like, but try to give some reasons. I intended
> >this as a serious discussion. I know the people dealing with user
> >mailing lists say "I saved this file but now I cannot find it!" is a
> >common problem.
>
> I deal with this problem with windows users a *lot* more than unix
> users.  The thing that saves me . . that file selector dealie has a
> history.  I start another download and see where it defaults to.
>
> >Can someone with real user interface experience give some real input on
> >this so I know if I am on crack or not? :-) Or are we just trying to
> >"Make UNIX not suck, as long as it does not involve my $HOME!" :)
>
> I just dislike clutteredness.  I hate apps that fill my $HOME with loads
> of dot-this and dot-that files.  I'd much prefer a separate desktop dir
> (not dot-desktop) and a single .preferences directory that apps could
> fill with dot files to their hearts' content.
>
> >Yes, I am frustrated a bit, try to bear with me.
> >
> >Tuomas
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Tuomas Kuosmanen - Art Director -
> >Ximian - tigert ximian com -
> >www.ximian.com
>
> Even if you talk the gnome people into doing this, I doubt many others
> will follow.
>
> -b