Re: [orca-list] Accessible Rolling Release Distro

[Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1 gmail com>]

Hello Janina,

Nothing I wrote, nothing makes your rudeness towards me justified. So, instead of sending your below message, you could have just walked away or done any number of things. Instead, you decided to send this utterly pointless message full of rudeness which, might I add, underscores the reputation of people in the Linux community as being rude and unhelpful. My query wasn't for me, it was for an individual I know who simply doesn't have the skills to work with CLI installers and apps, regardless of how easy you think they are. Seeing as GUI installers do exist, I was merely asking this list whether they are accessible, whether there is any work being made to make them more accessible, etc. I was not asking anyone to do work for me for free, although your asinine statement is what holds our community back from true progress. When blind people like you believe that we are inferior and should have to pay for proper accessibility, that we should not expect it, we end up in a state where blind people should continue to be 3rd-class citizens. I, for one, have a problem with that, and I would think you would as well.

If the answer to my question is that there isn't proper accessibility for GUI installers and apps, and if the answer is that there isn't work being done to improve the situation, you could just say that and be done, without your rudeness. If you don't know, you can say that, or just keep your mouth shut, your fingers off the keyboard as it were, and say nothing at all.

Anyway, don't bother responding, as I will be filtering any future messages from you to the trash. It's plain that you are not worth reading messages from.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 8:15 PM Janina Sajka <janina rednote net> wrote:

Nimer:

In reading your post I find I'm having a hard time working up any
sympathy for your problem.


Let me get specific in line below.

Nimer Jaber writes:
> Hello,
>
> All of these command-line installers, Arch, etc, take much more effort to
> install than a simple gui installer, which is what I'm looking for. In


More effort? Says who? You?

And whence this idea that installations are simple? If you want an
environment where someone else made all the decisions for you, stick to
Windows or get a Mac. That's simple.

> recommending an individual to give Linux a try when they have been used to
> a platform such as Windows, there is quite a leap forward to installing
> something like Arch. While I am all on board with cli tools, it is a shame
> that the graphical user interface side of the various distros seems to be
> getting much less accessible.

Much less accessible? Like they were accessible once and someone went
and broke things? Sorry. No such facts have been introduced into
evidence. The graphical installers have been marginally accessible
always, if at all.
But the real point is that Linux isn't Windows, and we all like that
fact just as it is.

The cli installers provide very straight forward step by step
instructions. Yes, there are quite a few steps to get things all done,
but that's life. As I said, if you want someone else making all the
decisions ...

Or, is your complaint that people might be inviting others to take a
look at Windows.

Hey, Nimer, if it isn't to your liking, that's just fine. There's
nothing written in the starts that says we have to meet Nimer's
specifications., or that Nimer needs to like Linux the way it is.

> I stated that, in trying a number of these,
> the installers aren't accessible out of the box. The Debian testing
> installer won't work with Orca, I can't get Fedora rawhide talking, I
> haven't tried Solus, and as I say, I am really looking for a distro which
> provides a rolling release, although I have recently seen issues with users
> trying to install the latest iteration of Ubuntu, so it just seems that the
> latest installers from many distros simply aren't accessible. There is a
> pretty recent forum thread discussing the inaccessibility of OpenSuse and
> Yast, so that seems out as well. Really quite a shame, and would be great
> to get work on this, as it would be great to have GUI alternatives to
> Windows/Mac which simply work.
>

Sure, let's have Nimer assign everyone else to work on his problems. Oh,
and guess what? He wants you to do so for free.

Shucks, Nimer, grow up.

Janina

> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 10:44 PM Janina Sajka <janina rednote net> wrote:
>
> > I have also found installing Arch very straight forward, so I'm a bit
> > befuddled by what the problem might be. In fact I did an install on a
> > mew machine just earlier this summer using an iso image from:
> >
> > https://talkingarch.info/
> >
> > Note there's another Arch installer with Speakup here:
> >
> > https://tarch.org/
> >
> > The biggest complication I can think of is networking. If you use a
> > wired connection, things should proceed smoothly. If you try to use
> > wifi, things can get complicated quickly.
> >
> > Once upon a time, many years ago, I maintained a howto install Fedora
> > using Speakup document. That process was far more complicated than the
> > process of installing Arch today, imo.
> >
> > My bottom line on this topic -- If Arch is too hard, stick to one of the
> > spins that provides a functioning desktop off the DVD or USB stick.
> > Mostly, these support copying the working environment to a fixed disk.
> >
> > Example: You can get a functioning Debian from grml.org rescue
> > environment to install to a fixed disk. Of course that doesn't provide
> > Orca and a graphical desktop.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Janina
> >
> >
> > Orca screen reader developers writes:
> > >    Yes a few years ago when arch uses the setup tool it was easy
> > >
> > >
> > >    Skickades från [1]E-post för Windows 10
> > >
> > >
> > >    Från: [2]Jason White via orca-list
> > >    Skickat: den 2 september 2020 02:50
> > >    Till: [3]nimerjaber1 gmail com; [4]Jeanette C.
> > >    Kopia: [5]orca-list
> > >    Ämne: Re: [orca-list] Accessible Rolling Release Distro
> > >
> > >
> > >    I don't recall that Arch took much effort to get everything working
> > >    when I last installed it. I am currently running Arch, and the
> > >    maintenance is fairly straightforward.
> > >
> > >    I have also used Debian Unstable and Debian Testing in the past. My
> > >    advice is to be prepared to deal with the occasional update problem,
> > >    but for the most part, Debian Testing should be reliable - assuming
> > >    that they're keeping up the quality for which they have a strong
> > >    reputation.
> > >
> > >    On 9/1/20 6:43 AM, Nimer Jaber via orca-list wrote:
> > >
> > >    Hello,
> > >
> > >
> > >    No arch because it takes lots of fiddling about to get anything
> > >    working, and I unfortunately don't have the time for that. I am
> > looking
> > >    for a system that works, but I do want a rolling release.
> > >
> > >
> > >    Thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > >    On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 12:55 AM Jeanette C. <[6]julien mail upb de>
> > >    wrote:
> > >
> > >      Hey hey Nimer,
> > >      Sep 1 2020, Nimer Jaber via orca-list has written:
> > >      ...
> > >      > I am not interested in Arch,
> > >      I am not trying to be difficult or to start a fight. Why not Arch?
> > >      Maybe
> > >      the answer further helps to narrow down solutions.
> > >      ...
> > >      Best wishes,
> > >      Jeanette
> > >      --
> > >        * Website: [7]http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of
> > >      sound
> > >        * Youtube:
> > >      [8]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
> > >        * Audiobombs: [9]https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
> > >        * GitHub: [10]https://github.com/jeanette-c
> > >      Our imagination
> > >      Taking us to places
> > >      We have never been before... <3
> > >      (Britney Spears)
> > >
> > >
> > >      --
> > >
> > >    Best,
> > >    Nimer Jaber
> > >    The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> > >    addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> > >    please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> > >    correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> > >    by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
> > >    criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> > >    attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> > >    up to you. Thanks.
> > >    Registered Linux User 529141.
> > >    [11]http://counter.li.org/
> > >    To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
> > >    Windows, visit [12]nvaccess.org
> > >    You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
> > >    To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
> > >    (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
> > >
> > >
> > >    Thank you, and have a great day!
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > orca-list mailing list
> > > [13]orca-list gnome org
> > > [14]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Orca wiki: [15]https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: [16]https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > >
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide: [17]
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable
> > > /a11y.html
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > >    1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
> > >    2. mailto:orca-list gnome org
> > >    3. mailto:nimerjaber1 gmail com
> > >    4. mailto:julien mail upb de
> > >    5. mailto:orca-list gnome org
> > >    6. mailto:julien mail upb de
> > >    7. http://juliencoder.de/
> > >    8. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
> > >    9. https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
> > >   10. https://github.com/jeanette-c
> > >   11. http://counter.li.org/
> > >   12. http://www.nvda-project.org/
> > >   13. mailto:orca-list gnome org
> > >   14. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > >   15. https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > >   16. https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > >   17. https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > orca-list mailing list
> > > orca-list gnome org
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka
> > https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> >
> > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org
> >
> > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures     http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> >
> >
>
> --
> Best,
>
> Nimer Jaber
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
>
> To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
> Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
> (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> Thank you, and have a great day!

--

Janina Sajka
https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures     http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!