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Re: [orca-list] Accessible Rolling Release Distro

Hello

I agree with Janina here.

Few points however
- If When someone meets some operating system first time it is not best practice to install it first but have some friend to help with the installation. There is reason why Windows or MacOS or ChromeOS become pre-installed. There are also pre-installed Linux computers available. My first experience with DOS was a full re-install of whole OS at eihties. To be honest installing Linux is much easier nowadays.
- Graphical installer doe not make the installation any easier. You still have to know your language, location and what software you like to install and where. Of course when using mouse solely there is no need to select keyboard layout.
- After installation Linux is much easier: just use your distro's package manager, no need to mess aroud the net to look for correct version, download and execute any installers and afraid malware. 




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 Janina Sajka via orca-list kirjoitti

Subject: Re: [orca-list] Accessible Rolling Release Distro
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2020 06:15:46
From: Janina Sajka via orca-list <orca-list gnome org>
To: Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1 gmail com>

Nimer:

In reading your post I find I'm having a hard time working up any
sympathy for your problem.


Let me get specific in line below.

Nimer Jaber writes:

Hello,

All of these command-line installers, Arch, etc, take much more effort to
install than a simple gui installer, which is what I'm looking for. In



More effort? Says who? You?

And whence this idea that installations are simple? If you want an
environment where someone else made all the decisions for you, stick to
Windows or get a Mac. That's simple.


recommending an individual to give Linux a try when they have been used to
a platform such as Windows, there is quite a leap forward to installing
something like Arch. While I am all on board with cli tools, it is a shame
that the graphical user interface side of the various distros seems to be
getting much less accessible.


Much less accessible? Like they were accessible once and someone went
and broke things? Sorry. No such facts have been introduced into
evidence. The graphical installers have been marginally accessible
always, if at all.
But the real point is that Linux isn't Windows, and we all like that
fact just as it is.

The cli installers provide very straight forward step by step
instructions. Yes, there are quite a few steps to get things all done,
but that's life. As I said, if you want someone else making all the
decisions ...

Or, is your complaint that people might be inviting others to take a
look at Windows.

Hey, Nimer, if it isn't to your liking, that's just fine. There's
nothing written in the starts that says we have to meet Nimer's
specifications., or that Nimer needs to like Linux the way it is.


I stated that, in trying a number of these,
the installers aren't accessible out of the box. The Debian testing
installer won't work with Orca, I can't get Fedora rawhide talking, I
haven't tried Solus, and as I say, I am really looking for a distro which
provides a rolling release, although I have recently seen issues with users
trying to install the latest iteration of Ubuntu, so it just seems that the
latest installers from many distros simply aren't accessible. There is a
pretty recent forum thread discussing the inaccessibility of OpenSuse and
Yast, so that seems out as well. Really quite a shame, and would be great
to get work on this, as it would be great to have GUI alternatives to
Windows/Mac which simply work.



Sure, let's have Nimer assign everyone else to work on his problems. Oh,
and guess what? He wants you to do so for free.

Shucks, Nimer, grow up.

Janina


On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 10:44 PM Janina Sajka <janina rednote net> wrote:


I have also found installing Arch very straight forward, so I'm a bit
befuddled by what the problem might be. In fact I did an install on a
mew machine just earlier this summer using an iso image from:

https://talkingarch.info/

Note there's another Arch installer with Speakup here:

https://tarch.org/

The biggest complication I can think of is networking. If you use a
wired connection, things should proceed smoothly. If you try to use
wifi, things can get complicated quickly.

Once upon a time, many years ago, I maintained a howto install Fedora
using Speakup document. That process was far more complicated than the
process of installing Arch today, imo.

My bottom line on this topic -- If Arch is too hard, stick to one of the
spins that provides a functioning desktop off the DVD or USB stick.
Mostly, these support copying the working environment to a fixed disk.

Example: You can get a functioning Debian from grml.org rescue
environment to install to a fixed disk. Of course that doesn't provide
Orca and a graphical desktop.

Best,

Janina


Orca screen reader developers writes:

   Yes a few years ago when arch uses the setup tool it was easy


   Skickades från [1]E-post för Windows 10


   Från: [2]Jason White via orca-list
   Skickat: den 2 september 2020 02:50
   Till: [3]nimerjaber1 gmail com; [4]Jeanette C.
   Kopia: [5]orca-list
   Ämne: Re: [orca-list] Accessible Rolling Release Distro


   I don't recall that Arch took much effort to get everything working
   when I last installed it. I am currently running Arch, and the
   maintenance is fairly straightforward.

   I have also used Debian Unstable and Debian Testing in the past. My
   advice is to be prepared to deal with the occasional update problem,
   but for the most part, Debian Testing should be reliable - assuming
   that they're keeping up the quality for which they have a strong
   reputation.

   On 9/1/20 6:43 AM, Nimer Jaber via orca-list wrote:

   Hello,


   No arch because it takes lots of fiddling about to get anything
   working, and I unfortunately don't have the time for that. I am

looking

   for a system that works, but I do want a rolling release.


   Thanks.


   On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 12:55 AM Jeanette C. <[6]julien mail upb de>
   wrote:

     Hey hey Nimer,
     Sep 1 2020, Nimer Jaber via orca-list has written:
     ...
    > I am not interested in Arch,
     I am not trying to be difficult or to start a fight. Why not Arch?
     Maybe
     the answer further helps to narrow down solutions.
     ...
     Best wishes,
     Jeanette
     --
       * Website: [7]http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of
     sound
       * Youtube:
     [8]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
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       * GitHub: [10]https://github.com/jeanette-c
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     Taking us to places
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     --

   Best,
   Nimer Jaber
   The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
   addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
   please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
   correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
   by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
   criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
   attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
   up to you. Thanks.
   Registered Linux User 529141.
   [11]http://counter.li.org/
   To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
   Windows, visit [12]nvaccess.org
   You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
   To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
   (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


   Thank you, and have a great day!

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
[13]orca-list gnome org
[14]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: [15]https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: [16]https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/

GNOME Universal Access guide: [17]

https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable

/a11y.html

References

   1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
   2. mailto:orca-list gnome org
   3. mailto:nimerjaber1 gmail com
   4. mailto:julien mail upb de
   5. mailto:orca-list gnome org
   6. mailto:julien mail upb de
   7. http://juliencoder.de/
   8. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
   9. https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
  10. https://github.com/jeanette-c
  11. http://counter.li.org/
  12. http://www.nvda-project.org/
  13. mailto:orca-list gnome org
  14. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
  15. https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
  16. https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
  17. https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html



_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:

https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html


--

Janina Sajka
https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures     http://www.w3.org/wai/apa




--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
(393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!
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