Re: [g-a-devel]gnopernicus command keys

[Bill Haneman <Bill Haneman Sun COM>]

Hi Guys:

Could you please use the new title for this thread?  There'a another significant discussion
going on in the previous thread subject.

Peter: I know you are talking about the numberpad, but the reality is that not all X servers and
keyboard drivers distinguish between the numpad and arrow keys in some configurations.  So in fact,
anything that grabs the numberpad has a very high clash potential for the arrow keys.  I suspect that
the situation gets worse for non-English keyboards.

- Bill

Peter Korn wrote:
> 
> Hi Mario, Bill, gang,
> 
> Mario wrote (in the single quote):
>  >>>
> >>>I also have a question here.  Why is it that Gnopernicus uses such a
> >>>complicated layer of keys.  Being new to the program it makes it quite
> >>>difficult to use.  I wonder if this could be changed?
>  >>
>  >> ...
> >>
> >>The alternatives are:
> >>
> >>  1. have far fewer commands available by default
> >>  2. use Ctrl/Shift/Alt-keypad combinations instead of layers
> >>  3. use Function keys or them main keyboard with Ctrl/Shift/Alt combinations
> >>
> >>Of these, I think really only option #2 is worth considering.
> >
> > From past experiences with other screen reading products,
> > option #2 is doomed to fail in the long run IMO.
> > I see two immediate disadvantages:
> > 1. Computer newbie users generally have a hard time coping
> >    with complicated key-combinations.  They are hard
> >    to remember, and cumbersome to press.
> >    Also, reember that a screen reader user will have to use
> >    the screen reading commands quite often, so having to press
> >    some more or less complicated key-combo will slow him down.
> > 2. If you use Ctrl/Alt/Shift modifiers on normal keyboard
> >    keys to create screen reader bindings, your bindings will
> >    at some point collide with shortcuts defined in some
> >    application the user is running.
> >
> > It is of course acceptable to bind certain commands to
> > Ctrl/Alt/Shift+something combinations, but those should
> > be very carefully chosen, and perhaps only by the user himself.
> 
> And then Bill:
> > #2 however has the distinct disadvantage of clashing with commonly-used GNOME keybindings.
> >
> > It might be worth investigating whether we can use less-common modifier keys, such as the
> > 'Windows' key, etc. in conjunction with numpad or arrow keys, for some functions.
> >
> > It also might make sense to use the Function keys (with a modifier, say Ctrl-F1, etc.) to
> > switch gnopernicus 'modes' or 'layers', and the use numpad/arrow keys (possibly
> > with shift/alt/etc.) for gnopernicus-specific navigation within that 'layer'.  This might have the potential
> > for less conflict with GNOME keybindings, while retaining the convenience of the number pad
> > for the most frequent gnopernicus command keys.
> 
> I think you guys may have misunderstood me.
> 
> Mario - your comment about newbies potentially having problems with modifier
> key combinations is well taken.  However, it seems both of you may have
> missed the fact that I'm suggesting modifier key combinations *only* with
> the numeric keypad.  I'm not aware of any application that would collide
> with Ctrl-NumPad-1 (any more so than colliding with NumPad-1 for example).
> 
> I think the only real concern is the newbie concern.  Perhaps the caliber of
> users coming from Windows/JAWS is different than what I remember from the
> outSPOKEN days (Macintosh and Windows).  In both of those products we used
> the numeric keypad with modifiers.  I'm not aware of any significant level
> of tech support calls about those combinations.  In fact, my recollection is
> that outSPOKEN was prasied for how intuitive its user interface was
> (Macintosh and Windows), and how users coming back to it after using other
> products found themselves working productively inside of 10 minutes, where
> it took them far longer to remember the key commands of other screen readers
> when the moved (back and forth) to those.
> 
> The key, of course, is in designing a set of key commands that make a high
> degree of logical sense.  I think that was one of the accomplishments of
> Marc Sutton and Josh Miele in the design of the outSPOKEN for Windows key
> command scheme.
> 
> Also, it seems to me to make more logical sense to say that Braille is the
> ALT key (for example), and magnification is Ctrl and Shift-Ctrl than it is
> to say that these are layers 9, 6, and 7 respectively.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Peter Korn
> Sun Accessibility team
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Gnome-accessibility-devel gnome org
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-- 
------
Bill Haneman x19279
Gnome Accessibility / Batik SVG Toolkit
Sun Microsystems Ireland