Re: Mozilla 1.7 rc1 issues.

["david poehlman" <poehlman1 comcast net>]

it sounds like we need some spoken labels like edit and link and so on.  if
I can use up and down arrows on a page, that would be good especially if the
word link is spoken for each link.  The page does not need to be
reformatted, but just hearing text wouldn't provide me with enough clues.
we need to be careful as you already know how we assign keys since this is a
cross platform application so I suggest a configurable key binding approach.
We need to make sure we have a way to read where we are, move in all kinds
of incraments in all directions, search recursively or not and jump through
tabular data in several ways, such as by cell, by row, by column and by
direction as well as by mark up such as header and so on.  A lot of this is
in the user agent accessibility guidelines and techniques located at:
http://www.w3.org/wai/ua/

No, I don't currently use gnome, but this is the only place I am on where
meaningfull dialog on mozilla at my level is taking place and I am extremely
interested in its availability as a cross platform solution.  At some point,
I hope to see it work right out of the box without needing any help from
other developers and I know we'll get there because we have to.

I appologize for any off topicness.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jacob Schmude" <jschmude adelphia net>
To: <gnome-accessibility-list gnome org>
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Mozilla 1.7 rc1 issues.


Hi
Ok, my $0.02. First, caret mode should always start at the top of the
page, as the windows screen readers do. I'm a fan of the window-eyes web
browsing interface myself, though since some of the hotkeys use the numpad
insert key, and I've not seen gnopernicus use that (the layers replace it,
I think) some of them may need changed, particularly the ones in table
mode. I'd like to see blank lines be announced or, failing that, to get
rid of those "no description, multi-line text" announcements. Keys such as
home, end, ctrl+home, ctrl+end should work properly at all times if
possible. Also, the mozilla dialogs really need some help--the only things
that work reliably are push buttons. Even check boxes don't always
announce their state (the caret browsing dialog is a good example). The
open location dialog (ctrl+l) doesn't speak at all, I think there should
be some type of feedback prompting for the URL. Also, I'd like to see
hotkeys that take you past the navigation links, with adjustable
characteristics (like minimum number of lines, minimum line
length)-window-eyes users willll understand what I refer to. Links need to
be spoken when tab is pressed and identified as such, ditto for all form
controls. There should be a way to read a whole web page out with one
keystroke, a read-to-end key. There should also be a shift+f10-style menu
where  one can get properties and copy the link's url for the clipboard.
This may be the case already but since it's so hard to know when you're on
a link I can't really test it.
That's all for now, probably think of more later


On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Peter Korn wrote:

> Hi Luke, Tom,
>
> As you have deduced, Mozilla's present caret navigation leaves much to be
> desired.  This is being worked on.  Alas, I don't have an estimate of when
it
> will get significantly better (beyond "as soon as possible").
>
> I'd like to open a related topic: what do you (and the other Gnopernicus
users
> on this alias) want in a web browsing interface?  Caret navigation is
critical
> for mouseless operation (a mouseless user must be able to do anything a
> mouse-ed user can, including selecting text to copy to the clipboard), and
> good feedback from Gnopernicus to caret navigation should result in a
basic
> level of blind/low-vision accessibility (especially if you include the
usual
> Ctrl-arrow, home/end stuff).
>
> Now, is that sufficient?
>
> Sufficient or not, what would you add if you could add something to this?
Is
> there an existing set of keybindings and approach to the problem you
> particular like and think would be a good model (e.g. JAWS browsing,
Window
> Eyes browsing, Home Page Reader, etc.)?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Sun Accessibility team
>
>
> Luke Yelavich wrote:
> > Hi Tom
> > At 06:01 AM 30/04/2004, Tom and Esther Ward wrote:
> >
> >> Hi, List.
> >> Recently, I grabbed the Mozilla 1.7 rc1 source code, and compiled it.
> >> I am having several issues I would like to discuss about it.
> >> I noticed that while tabbing through the page I can get spoken
> >> feedback on
> >> the frame titles, but none of the links on the page get announced.
> >
> >
> > I had the same problem as well, even under GNOME 2.6.
> >
> >> I also noticed on forms the buttons will get announced, but the edit
> >> fields are
> >> ignored and are not spoken.
> >
> >
> > The same here also.
> >
> >> When carot browsing is activated I had assumed it would allow me to
> >> uparrow
> >> and down arrow through the page elements or at least the text on the
> >> pages.
> >> Again I get no speech feedback.
> >
> >
> > Since I have a bit of sight, I have found that the carrot seems to start
> > at the bottom for some reason, and pressing CTRL+Home doesn't always
> > help, and you don't know when you are at the top of the page.
> >
> > Another thing that I think I have mentioned earlier, is that the carrot
> > browsing mode doesn't take tables into consideration at all. One has to
> > know where the carrot is, and press CTRL+Right Arrow, or Right arrow
> > alone to get to the other section of the table.
> >
> >> Is there anyone or any specific list I should address Mozilla
> >> accessibility
> >> with? I would like to get involved with testing Mozilla, help find
> >> accessibility issues, and report those problems to the developers for
> >> future
> >> fixes/changes.
> >
> >
> > http
> > ://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-accessibility
> > Is the mailing list.
> >
> >> Currently, I linked Mozilla with gnome 2.4, but plan to update to
> >> Gnome 2.6
> >> in the next couple of weeks. Does it make a large difference with
Mozilla
> >> weather I use Gnome 2.4 or Gnome 2.6?
> >
> >
> > It will perhaps be a bit more responsive, but that is about it I think.
> >
> > Luke
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
> > gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
>
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