Re: [OT] Re: Third draft (was Re: defs files)

[Miguel de Icaza <miguel gnu org>]

> A nitpick : while I agree that gtk+ wasn't primarily designed for
> language bindings, theoretically gnome should be. Yet the Gnome libs
> are much harder to wrap than gtk+ :-).

First: What do you mean by "Gnome libs", if by that you mean
"gnome-libs", that is just a fraction of the libraries and you are not
making justice to the other libraries.

Second: if various API calls do not make sense in C++, that does not
mean you need to wrap them: write your own that match the language the
best, nobody is forcing you into supporting every single macro, and
every single function call.  Improvise, innovate, impress us.

> On jan. 10 I posted here and on gnome-hackers a mail which subject was
> "Making the life of the wrappers maintainers easier".
> 
> I got absolutely *zero* feedback.
> 
> Thankfully you are now addressing most of the problems I pointed out
> in that mail in your new defs file specs.

I think it is my job to point out that Gtk+/GNOME-libs maintainers
have for the most part done this on their spare time because they want
better systems, and because they have fun at doing it.

The difference in the Havoc approach and your approach is that Havoc
is taking an *active* position: he takes a problem, tries to find a
solution, he proposes it, he follows up on it, and he tries to get the
changes fed back into the maintainers.

Compare this: 

    "I have this problem, it is important for me, so with the
     assistance of the team, I want to move this forward, I will take
     care of it".
to: 

    "I need you guys to do this pile of boring work to make my life
     easier"

> I keep my Gnome rants to the Gtk-- mailing-list, and they are always
> rather tongue in cheek. Besides, they aren't aimed at the lib
> maintainers, my pet peeve is elsewhere :-).

Not really;  You have posted a tendencious article in the past whining
about this to a public forum.  Drawing the wrong conclussion:

	As a result, Gnome is de facto "tied" to C just like KDE is
	"tied" to C++ : In both cases, other languages can be used,
	but chances are that no big application will use them.

Which is wrong.  Galway is written in Gnome/Guile;   The Red Hat
installer application is written in Python/GNOME.

Best wishes,
Miguel.