Re: Gnome is not easy to use in 800x600

[Ian Peters <itp helixcode com>]

On Tue, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:07:38PM +0200, Frank Felfe wrote:
> >
> > This is because not all applications behave well. An app should set wmclass,
> > and parent to all its transient windows. If it does not, window manager
> > cannot correctly handle that window. If two dialogs of the same app have
> > exactly the same wmclass, they appear to wm like they are only one. If
> > bigger one comes first, wm remembers its size. After that you get a short
> > message in a big window...
> 
> Anyway it wouldn't solve the problem at all. People want their gnome-app to
> remember its position/dimension. If people change the WM then they still want
> their app to know its default position/dimension. The default
> position/dimension must be the same whatever WM you use.
> Actually it's the deafult position of the app and not the default position of
> the WM. From a logical view default positions/dimensions can only be managed
> correctly by the api which generates the window (gnome something).

I'm sorry, but this is wrong.

Do people expect an application to remember its border style, or its
focus policy, or its stacking order, despite changing window
managers?  I would distinctly object to an application trying to
set its position for me.  Netscape and Emacs try or tried to do this,
and I've disabled that in my window manager, thank goodness.

> > So, fix the apps, not the window manager... Anyway, it would be too hard for
> > an app to manage all it's windows sizes and locations -- easier to set a
> > proper wmclass.
> 
> Hmmmm..? If an incomming email causes you email client to erase you entire HD,
> would you say the incomming email has to be fixed or would you say its the
> email clients fault  ????

Email client, of course.  Does this have a point?

Let me try this.  If my incomining mail didn't include a From: line,
would I expect my email client to know it anyway?

> My point is that you cannot assure that every app sets wmclass. If the WM wants
> to take over the task of managing default stuff then he must take the
> responibility too, i.e. the WM must make sure, that he doesn't mess around with
> window sizes/positions (wmclass set or not).

Your claim is that it's too hard to make sure every app sets the
wmclass correctly (a fairly simple task), and so instead we must
duplicate the code and functionality of setting and remembering
position in each and every application (something which would, btw,
be fundamentally broken by ignoring the existing methods, such as
session management and interacting with the window manager, which is
responsible for /managing/ windows)?

-- 
Ian Peters
itp helixcode com